[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Lorehounds podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Weir the Lorehounds, your guys, to Psycho History.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm John.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is our coverage of Foundation on Apple TV+.
[SPEAKER_01]: Season three, episode three.
[SPEAKER_01]: When a book finds you.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to get in contact with us, send us an email to empireatthelorehounds.com or head to our Discord server from the link tree in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you like what you've heard and you want to support us, or get ad-free and bonus content, you can check the same link tree for our Patreon and Supercast subscription options.
[SPEAKER_02]: Marilyn, we are a third-ish through the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know about you, but this show is cooking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm having the time of my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my favorite episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I keep saying they get better, but this, I really, I mean, given some of the content, how could it not be?
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to give us some, your detailed hot take?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, first of all, I'm only now all the way far into it for listeners, but short after when I first saw it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sharing the realization that I had shortly after watching episode two that Han Patriots first name is the same as a certain solos first name and now I want to ask George Lucas decided to name his own swash buckling and trepid hero after as a most character
[SPEAKER_02]: That's funny because I'm reading the books alongside the series and it stuck out more to me in the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: Seeing it written really made me go, oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's Han Solo.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the same archetype.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, this Han is buckling a lot more swashes than the printed book, Con ever did.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Enjoy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and I wanted to say before watching this episode, I heard a story from Marketplace Tech about using AI to predict where riots may occur.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's experiments with AI conducting warfare.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shades of the Prime, Radiant, and Psycho History, not to mention robots.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's coming upon us.
[SPEAKER_01]: It might not be all together here yet, but.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, Demorsel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Watch this space.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the name.
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody should name it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm sure it's not public domain, but somebody should name it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Demorsel.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe people can make their own private AI.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Information apps and call them Demorsel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or change the name of one of the, you know, automated speakers in the house to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Demorsel.
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Turn down the heat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, watching the opening sequence.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm quite sure that it's the middle space that we see right at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they're on the right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd often wondered why the last Empire statue in the long line up that dissolved one by one had long hair and appeared.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, no, I know.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, dude, today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I love dude, day.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the coolest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's pretty amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw somebody on Reddit and by the way, at the time we're recording this only episode one is aired, but I lurk on Reddit to see how we were reacting to the other episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I obviously can't really participate because I have too much future knowledge, but I saw somebody being like,
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I can handle this day who's not serious anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not like angry and a conqueror and I was like in my head, I'm like, oh wow, I know I love this guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is, this is, first of all, it's a joy to watch Lee pace take on a different character as the same sort of person.
[SPEAKER_02]: And secondly, it's just nice to get a change of pace for this empire.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't want each generation of plans to be the exact same.
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be exhausting.
[SPEAKER_01]: and boring and, you know, not using these incredibly gifted actors to their full potential.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, each episode thus far is better than the one before it though, um, I just think this one is the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have another crucial scene which touches on a major part of my life, the importance of information and people to help us find it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_01]: The sets and costumes are so incredibly beautiful and beautifully realized.
[SPEAKER_01]: And wow, what I love to work in that library.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: What doesn't it look nice?
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I'm very confused about how you read a book and of this kind.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't you tell me, Madam librarian, how I would approach reading a book like this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm reminded of Codex's and hyperglyphics.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, if you've been living with the prime radiant for three years, things probably become more immediately comprehensible than if you're like you and I who just have seen it for a few seconds, is that what?
[SPEAKER_01]: What is that?
[SPEAKER_01]: So bottom line, that's not my area of librarian expertise, so I haven't worked in the foundation, or the Chandler library, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there must be some kind of specialist training, but only if you've come from the second foundation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the title was a wonderful title for any of my day with a librarian mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: It'd be a good conversation starter, so what book has found you recently?
[SPEAKER_01]: But even without all the above, I think it would still be my favorite episodes so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: What about you?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this season is really finding its footing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I was mildly critical.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, you know, mostly praiseworthy of the first episode, but my criticism of it was expositioned up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was such a mild criticism because I think it's necessary.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're done with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are completely done with that by this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think last episode, maybe we had a remnant of it too.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this episode, it just feels like we are just in the world enjoying the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like we're zeroing in on important moments like the meeting of
[SPEAKER_02]: I almost called him Hover, but Torrin and you'll you know Beta kidnapping are rescuing something with with Magnifico with with all these these different people meeting and I think that's going to be very exciting I really enjoyed watching the backstory of this dawn that was a surprise for me, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, this darn's just really genuine and just really trying to save empire.
[SPEAKER_02]: And no, this, this darn actually is someone who understands that he's going to go down as a martyr.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or perhaps, perhaps only a martyr internally, like no one's going to know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, when we get into it more deeply, you'll have to say more about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just to tell you how you got that reading.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just am so pleased to see, and the exposition of the robot call, the inheritance, I think you call this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: You jotted that down.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wrote a note to go back and jot that down, and then I forgot too.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you for saving me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I, I, such a good world building and I love to see even chill day can fall into the old wrathful day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he doesn't get what he wants, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's still the same person.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a different iteration.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, smoothed up by the drugs, but also as we hear at one point someone says, you know, are you sure that this is making you paranoid already?
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so pleased with this show this season.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've been pleased with it every season, but this season, especially, I'm really enjoying so far.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I see, by the way, again, you know, only episode one is out, but other reviewers have also gotten screeners and it seems from the reviews that I've seen online, just like the overall season review that I don't have spoilers, people are really happy with the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just the reactions to episode one, I've hardly seen a bad review.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I don't dig into them these deeply as you do, but I did listen to Ball News podcast episode about it and enjoy what they had to say and yeah, they're pretty enthusiastic too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is quite a difference from, you know, season one, certainly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, season one had a rough reception, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, season one, one, you got to set up this crazy world.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have so much world building to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that, there were COVID issues with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And quite honestly, and I said this last season, so it shouldn't be a shock.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Selver Hardin was probably my least favorite casting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really didn't enjoy the performance kind of the whole time.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were a very few points that I enjoyed with that character, so I'm glad that we moved on completely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I am in a different space than you on that, but that's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're all different.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed your a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And perhaps partly because having had more of the book stuff in with, I enjoyed the change of gender and the change of race and all the things coming together.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never was troubled by the whole accent thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that was a thing that kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't even the accent for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just the whole demeanor.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did not understand what they were doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt like a very confused character.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it could just be that I was, you know, filling in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe gaps with my own knowledge.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I watched it, I really didn't have much to fill in with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had read briefly the first foundation novel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I don't want to harp on on Silverhardt and Silverhardt.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not here anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got the new old.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, Silverhardt is the first one to say my favorite, uh, as a mobile item all time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Violence is the last result of the incumbent.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a great quote.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a great line.
[SPEAKER_02]: A hardenedism.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think that's how we're hardened in the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: What have said that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I hear what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get into the episode Maryland.
[SPEAKER_02]: We start off with a partnership.
[SPEAKER_02]: Three years before the start of the season, a curious Don goes to Trentor's library to ask about Colleys ninth proof of folding a volume bend by Cleon the twelfth.
[SPEAKER_02]: The librarian brings him to view the book alone and Dawn is confused as to how the book got back from the foundation.
[SPEAKER_02]: The librarian sends Dawn to meet the person who returned it, Gale Dornick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Gale offers Dawn an escape hatch if he will assist her in saving humanity against Lemule.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the present, Dawn accepts a call from Gale in which she tells him it's time to make himself useful and put an enclosure around Calgary to contain the Mule.
[SPEAKER_02]: She also warns Dawn of the Mule's psychic abilities.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now I'm hearing what you were saying about
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to be a martyr.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's for a way out when you describe it as an escape hatch, which is very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not disagreeing with that reading.
[SPEAKER_01]: I focused more on the fact that he was earnestly doing his best to prevent the end of his not just his existence, but the end of empire, the suffering of humanity, all the things that we know that what I call the meal tail in the in the prime radiant are pointing towards.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and what I meant by him being a secret martyr was that, you know, to all eyes around, he's just going to be the failing empire, a failing empire.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so he's just going to be either a tyrant or an incompetent by the end of the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the end, he's one of the main players that's going to make sure, at least he's attending through this.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's attending to be one of the main players to make sure that even if Empire falls, humanity doesn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And who knows how many of the, however many gazillion people out there will ever actually know that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's a really cool, really complicated character.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'm glad because, of course, the previous dons were, I won't say they were monochrome, but they kind of, you know, they were together.
[SPEAKER_01]: One role to play in each season.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now I keep saying, oh, wow, he's doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, how did this happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's, he's definitely, well, the focus is shifting away from the seated day to the one who will become day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a rising day, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't make all the long-point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't remember under which context, but yes, I heard that phrase.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've always loved the library in archive on Trantor and it, hundred fifty-two years or so later is no exception.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the physical form in which this book is here.
[SPEAKER_01]: The construction reminds me of some aspects of the prime radiant, the inner construction and that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks so other than our traditional codex.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet it serves the same kind of function.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is, as the library says at one point, it's an artifact, as well as a source of knowledge and information.
[SPEAKER_01]: Know that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to ask you though, is the librarian?
[SPEAKER_02]: telling a real world fact with usually you don't need gloves to handle it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a recent development granted.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, recent doesn't, you know, over the last couple of decades, as opposed to the preceding remedy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, years or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I love, you know, any library does you when I gloves.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's simply trying to intimidate you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You are more likely to damage the book when wearing gloves because you're going to be clumsy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, picture doing any delicate task with rubber gloves on.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just silly, even cloth gloves.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're far more likely to, you know, bend a corner of a page, break a brittle page off all those kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And far more damage than the little oil that is on your skin.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, if you use hand sanitizer at a time, then even that is a very minimal.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we'll thank you for confirming.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is our librarian expert here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we need to.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I watched it, I was like, I got to ask Marilyn if that's real.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I need to clarify.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have worked in archives often on any archivist would say, I'm not an archivist.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a librarian.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I accept that designation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's helpful to have that kind of archival experience as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: At the end of the day, it's about getting the information that people need to them in a fashion in which they can comprehend it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: She has a beautiful line, gorgeous line, chef, kiss, quality line.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says, Empire has three heads.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they all have room for ideals like this?
[SPEAKER_01]: The idea being, you know, we should be listening to seldom.
[SPEAKER_01]: We should recognize that the plan isn't trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: We should be looking
[SPEAKER_01]: learning all the information that we can about this thing which has been driving some parts of the universe for a while now or the galaxy for a while now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also really love all the cloaken dagger stuff going on in a lower level.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think David would have liked it too because he seems to like that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, it's a reflection to call back to earlier episodes where you have don's sculpting around in the lower level, which
[SPEAKER_01]: Gayle then refers to in the subsequent conversation that we see.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, such a reveal the person who wants to talk to anyone who ever asks about Kelly's proof of folding turns out to be, uh, Gayle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which, um, of course, is partly because, as John says, um, you know, Harry Selden took it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: How did it come back here?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's leads to a whole conversation, uh, well,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, let me send you to a colleague of mine who has specifically asked any time anybody who shows any interesting callers like proof of folding, you know, please get them in touch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is a really interesting aspect to me is a Gail says, you know, send anybody who asks about this to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she couldn't have predicted that that would be empire because she had no idea that the other Selbin gave
[SPEAKER_02]: and therefore empire the prime reading.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that this dawn ever exists without the prime reading, it hasn't been given to empire.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think you're right, because how else would he get this kind of in-depth detailed knowledge, which I'm sure it being carefully hidden from all but those four beings.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what a fascinating thing that there's these two seldons
[SPEAKER_02]: not working against each other, but certainly not working with each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's an interesting dance, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, on the one hand, you have a, you know, a human, however, reconstituted and an algorithm, which is a nice juxtaposition because I've been talking about this a lot, I think I'll talk about it somewhere tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole question of can zero on what algorithms truly make a decision that will fit well with human behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can do the math and the planning on all those, you know, the large scale, psychohistory type stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it seems to me, you still need that human element.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, wanting to keep a second variation secret, that's based line from the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now we see slightly different reasons, perhaps, or wanting to keep it secret.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think it works well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, beautiful language.
[SPEAKER_01]: That whole scene was full of these beautiful phrases.
[SPEAKER_01]: To dawn, the primary audience speaks the language of angels.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're talking about mathematics and I kept saying, yeah, it's a language, it's a language.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Language of each.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, and that shows the profound impact of the prime radian had on him as a child.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm trying to remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was Gale surprised when she found out that vault Harry had given the previous radian to, yes, she was absolutely right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So and she says at one point, well, I wasn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: She didn't use this terminology, but you know, I tossed a line in the pond expecting to pull up a little fish.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got the whale, you know, how did you say that?
[SPEAKER_01]: And her knowledge and understanding, every clean on your age wants an escape hatch, and I can be that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where the possible, okay, I can, I can, I can flee all this approbation and hatred, and I was the one that let the Empire fall apart or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps is one way of looking at that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is the reminder of the previous two dawns who did try to escape and one of them failed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as far as we know at this point, the other one succeeded.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I wonder if that's setting up anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: The fact that there is a rogue line of clean-ons out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, they would be missing an awfully fun opportunity if it didn't make use of it at some point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I think they have to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, okay, so this line, I'm speculating here folks, promise, this line fails utterly and then suddenly uprises the descendant of Dawn and Sarah, and yes, I am your new emperor because I have bloodline in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that would be very cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be very cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if that happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: And look, we've done away with clones.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm not following a robot anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm the genuine human who will lead us all into the future.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're like, you're not following a what?
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair point, fair point, fair point.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the messages that, you know, alert themselves, view out themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: You read it and you drop it and it disintegrates before it's the floor.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's certainly really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we also have the thing that the original prime radiant did not predict the meal's appearance.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's there now within the prime radiant.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not a reflection, it's a reflection of present development rather than projected futures.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, there's a question of, and I don't know why you don't want to ask this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why could Yale predict the meal's appearance?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it must be because of the precognitive dreams.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was the only way.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think she got a heads up via that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the whole thing about burgeoning the enclosure and whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you kind of wonder would that really have worked?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Three or three years earlier, she might not have had as much intel about the meal.
[SPEAKER_01]: She subsequently got.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But who knows?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, she asks him in the present.
[SPEAKER_02]: did you be in closure?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's in the present now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's in the present now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to be clear.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that point she does know that he's he's an mentalist and.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cushions and don't ever meet with him in person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am very, very excited to see where this plot like goes because anything can happen at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which I think is one of the gifts of David Goyer and his fellow.
[SPEAKER_01]: writing room and all the rest of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even for those of us who have lived with the books for decades, we're still wondering.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're giving us new puzzles or giving us new opportunities and options.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you might feel some things work better than others, but that's personal preference.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And with the inclusion of the seldons and the way the second foundation was set up, we're pretty unrecognizable in a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, almost entirely.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, the first foundation's plot line is pretty close to where it was in the box at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're hitting the same marks in a sense, but in very different ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's very cool, probably do like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's take a break and then we're going to head to a party.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's time for a party Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, goodie.
[SPEAKER_01]: What kind of party John?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, beta, Torin, and Han go to the Meal's party, where his bard Magnifico is playing music.
[SPEAKER_02]: Han tries to approach the Meal, but is scared off by his abilities and flees the planet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Torin approaches the Meal with a drink, and plays a game of insults with him, goading the Meal into using a vegetable peeler on his hand.
[SPEAKER_02]: Meanwhile, Beta chats up Magnifico, Tornin uses his drones to flash a bright light at the Mule and escapes with Beta and Magnifico.
[SPEAKER_02]: Barely making a jump in time.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Mule learns his entertainer is gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I seem to have a recollection that listeners write in, if I got this complete wrong, book read your listeners write in.
[SPEAKER_01]: The way Beta wows the crowd with her fashion, I think there was something
[SPEAKER_01]: about that in the book that said, somebody effective, okay, beta, you know, you can impress them with this out here in the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Possibly that she's a foundation or I can't remember, but it just, it seemed very familiar, not in that particular form, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was certainly a good distraction for Honda Slipin and Deer reconnaissance.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, that doesn't work out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Torrin's got to take it on himself.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say this one was pushing the Pakeela scale, this whole scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm telling you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I looked away.
[SPEAKER_02]: I literally put my fingers in front of my face.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I just looked down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, as soon as I saw the hand reaching for the vegetable peelers, I know it's coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, did have vegetable peelers really not improved in technology?
[SPEAKER_02]: at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I feel like at this point you should be able to like push a button and it just like levitates the vegetable and swirl around until it's unpeeled.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a nice idea, but not so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I jump ahead a little bit of my notes here, I think this is a good time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not watch this the first time with subtitles.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't catch the first time round that
[SPEAKER_01]: he actually uses the term flighting, F-L-Y-T-I-N-G.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I'd seen that, I would have jumped on it right away, but I did recognize it subsequently.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I know that they appear to be invoking something from Norris Literature, as well as Scott's Celtic Old English and Middle English.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a tradition in which a scop or a singer
[SPEAKER_01]: will using perfect meter rhyme and melody, insult someone else in the crowd as a violin and thoroughly as possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, I'm quite certain that in the original concept that nobody in the crowd or the target of the insults or anything, or the singer wasn't supposed to be harmed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I guess they they never heard of the roast of the comedy central roast roast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's where a lot of this came from, but it was it was considered the barge in the skulls and the singers were considered sacred.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the thought of harming them was was a poor end.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet they could become very political.
[SPEAKER_01]: They could really, you know, stick the knife in and twist it a little.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sorry, bad analogy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please stick the vegetable be learned.
[SPEAKER_01]: So from this I'm reason I'm finally realizing that the script writers appear to be doing their best to give every remarkably Norse vibe to this meal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Particularly given his love of feasting music and quote unquote entertainment.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know if you read if you read the saga as you know any metal or soulish or you even read seeing some of the TV series you know that you know the Vikings came up with some truly horrific torture deaths and
[SPEAKER_01]: sixteen different quote unquote creative ways to cause pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: So on so in that regard, they're definitely in keeping with the tradition if this is in fact what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: That does mean I have to watch it.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do not have to watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing that didn't do, he didn't do was to actually pour salt in it because that's, that's what often happens, which ironically is also way to, way to heal it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But terrific levels of pain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, if I can add one day on this north, north thing, not north, north thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: The actor who is currently playing the mule, the recast, is known best of besides us for playing Euro on a Greyjoy in Game of Thrones series.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a character who is from a seafaring, conquering coastal building, raiding society, sounds very north to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's,
[SPEAKER_02]: very interesting that they chose him to come and portray them all now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and there's even some more horribly ironic resonances here, because the word flighting can be related to the word fear.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it also invokes the word play, which refers to the move of skin, so we saw this literally happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: And playing alive was on the most dreaded tortures of a variety of cultures.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this fits right in with, you know, with the incredibly barbaric vibe that they appear to be, um, wishing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: We spoke.
[SPEAKER_01]: Last, you know, I didn't need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't need it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, whatever else, I may think of Torin who looks remarkably like a boy's book.
[SPEAKER_01]: He does have nerves and a few other body parts of steel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but, and I love the way the actor showed that he knew
[SPEAKER_01]: that he was sticking his head in the mouth of a lion.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that would have been the more comfortable thing to do, no way, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's quick death instead of, you know, this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, good on you, Toran.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really, you know, we said this previous recording.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope that the show decides it's made its point by now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It stops all this egregious, off this pukula scale kind of violence.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's the same sort of thing as we know that when Empire holds up two fingers, everybody kind of goes, uh, what's going to happen now?
[SPEAKER_01]: If it twists, uh, oh, somebody's going to get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, we don't need to pile on one violent scene after another, at least that's my feeling.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, I was thinking about this actually, because I finished reading the the original trilogy of the foundation novels this weekend, we recorded.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking about your beef with this mural.
[SPEAKER_02]: And quite honestly, I think the mural in the book is as violent, it's just off-screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't, I never get the sense that the book view enjoys other people's pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never got that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I never got that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never got that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I never got that.
[UNKNOWN]: I never got that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never got that.
[UNKNOWN]: I never got that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never got that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I
[SPEAKER_01]: Which I think about is a pretty psychopathic one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, no book spoilers here.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Mule here is said that's his intention, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the first episode he's like, I've gotten appetite.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that also ties in nicely with the whole Viking piece of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's chopping down on an apple, I said.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it's all there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you ever see the people who were, what am I trying to say?
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to say they called it a Baltic breakfast or something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I want to know?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not it's not it's not bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: No worries.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was this TikTok trend or video trend online.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were taking random and people were like, this is not how people actually eat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Stop pretending that it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were taking a tomato and a pepper and some goat cheese and some drinkable yogurt and like all these random foods and they would just take a bunch bite.
[SPEAKER_02]: fight this, fight this, and all the random foods.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what it's reminding me of.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see why.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: See why.
[SPEAKER_01]: So back to the, um, Magnifico a bit, uh, the visuson or is a musical instrument that shows up in the books and does light shows and so forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just thought this was a super conceptualization of the visuson.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's busy so no.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're if you are listening and you don't have the transcript or the transcripts, exacting up who knows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't look it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do not look it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do not look up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you'll go.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not look up the mule.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll be spoiled.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm really excited to see how they're going to use it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, seriously, since as you say, they, you know, it's connected to the books, but I now have a new concept.
[SPEAKER_01]: which you also came up with of what they might be doing and it would be something very soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're looking forward to seeing it for right.
[SPEAKER_02]: We absolutely cannot talk about it right now, but I think when I have seen predicted what's going on here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also the second watch I realized that Hans said at some point when he was getting closer to them, you know, he said, you are like me.
[SPEAKER_01]: or the meal says you were like me, or I can't remember who said it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it was Han who thought it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it was the meal.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were like me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And something I think in, okay, does Han have mental abilities?
[SPEAKER_01]: Could be actually be a second foundation, Lance.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the very office of Mayor Inber, watch the space.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be a very fun twist.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have a note that somebody looks like a twilight?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, in the dancing crowd for one moment I caught a glimpse of a human.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the second viewing I saw that what I thought were tails coming down were it was actually a hairstyle.
[SPEAKER_01]: But go back and look at it and tell me they're not inspired by the twilight.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the right term from Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, this y-likes are usually the ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like I'm gonna go back to the two.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I can't remember the proper name for there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I can never remember there is a word for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a dangling organs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there is a word for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to be discurdious.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's the there's the race that has three.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's I believe you're referring to the Tegruda.
[SPEAKER_01]: The two grudists exactly, and then I had to want to make sure that I was correct and I didn't call them at you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the twilight was very rare.
[SPEAKER_02]: The twilight like our everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so twilight is what I meant.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wonder if that was just another fun nod to
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, good big.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just start worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Star Wars owes something to Azimov.
[SPEAKER_02]: George Lucas took a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't say, but do even more of my lore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: More I think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you were actually calling the Mintots.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think I had, I can't remember if I've caught myself up in this, but listening to Baldwin's coverage, I realized that the Meal's entertainer had preceded him on Kalaghan in the very first scene, the first episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just thought that the music we were hearing was bear McCreary's score.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in point, in fact, it was diagetic.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's very cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: think more about this, and can I just take a note I have not said this yet, I am ashamed, very curious music is again fabulous.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to call him back.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was on the pod before.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_01]: That'd be fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I would love to talk to him directly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Finally, we've crossed Pasadox in a couple years ago, and then you're in your
[SPEAKER_01]: previous interview, you mentioned it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I did, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was, he was all chuffed.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, oh, well, that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know because they're all scholars.
[SPEAKER_01]: And which, of course, is in this understanding of the full scope of the Oxenwood society, generally, but that's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was just nervous.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's head on to NSA.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us do so.
[SPEAKER_02]: day goes to his most trusted commander to get help smuggling him and song out of trend or he offers the commander the imperial man i'd secure his daughter's terminal illness i'm assuming it's terminal sounds like it is yes uh it certainly there's certainly his no-known treatment right as the commander and his family would have to flee to when clean-on is worried about them result interfering
[SPEAKER_02]: calling her an it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He tells songs she is secretly a robot.
[SPEAKER_02]: After expressing doubts about the plan, song gives a secret symbol to Demosal signaling that she is a member of the sect, the inheritance.
[SPEAKER_02]: And believes the robots will ascend again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Demosal erases her memories and sends her home and day rages.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just to clarify, we're doing here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've done before.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're building two scenes together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: right earlier in the later ones so in case listeners are I think I have three scenes actually that I put together yes there's three in there there's three in there can I just say I felt really stupid what was reading satellite is that oh yeah they're trying to smuggle song that what was that first episode title is song for the end of the world oh I see what you were doing there David going like it
[SPEAKER_02]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I didn't put it together until just now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Give rabbit time and she always finds the answer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great job, everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, first of all, absolutely loving what am I said as before, but watching day rage, watching we pace really channel that that imperial rage again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thatching another family heirloom.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was fantastic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, these are these it takes you never going to survive this rain.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_01]: But before he tells her, she says, hey, if a world is going to end, why keeps secrets?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And neither of them had any way of knowing just exactly what that secret was and the consequences it would have.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is kind of interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: I suppose the reason why it never even occurred to her is because her religion teaches that they are gone entirely, but that they will return.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so to find out that one has returned, as Deborah Zell says, you know, I had to, I had to do this because she was afraid that if Song went back to her people and told her about it, as she says, as Deborah Zell says, I just deprived the sect of something that might have breathed new life into their flame.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's put now to fire before it's even started.
[SPEAKER_01]: In her view.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although, you know, the way everything is is heading towards chaos, having a bunch of people in microgen, something that you guys have nothing saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: We love robots.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But are there any other robots around, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: A whole territory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but anything this massively tied in with
[SPEAKER_01]: religion that has been held so tightly that, you know, threat of death is not steering people away from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It, you know, picture the millennial kinds of fervor and, you know, for Christians as, as if suddenly yes, here is Christ right now embodied and I've seen him and so on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, that happened in the Christian Gospels, but still the literal fact of it happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: That just imagining what kind of chaos that produced on our own world
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good end that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I am really enjoying the relationship between day and his commander buddy because this is, I think the first time we've ever seen a day have a genuine relationship with anyone outside of the inner circle.
[SPEAKER_01]: It absolutely is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not just a relationship, but a friendship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is very clear.
[SPEAKER_01]: That lovely quote where
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the captain says to you do command some small loyalty.
[SPEAKER_01]: And days as somebody defective, I love faint praise.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I live for faint praise.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I had it been just somewhere, but I've lost, I've lost it somewhere and all the things I wrote with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and Lee pays could sell out of these lines.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I, I will always buy what he's, what he's cooking.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think part of the, the theory of days reaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: is that Demerzel actually comes up and strokes his face.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's expressing, without words, her love for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he is just utterly, utterly disgusted.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, are you kidding me?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it just, it only made everything worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, this is after we had a whole season with a day that was making love to who'd tell myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of ironic.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the realities of the situation between knowing that it's been predicted, you know, four months to the end of this whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's right before their ascensions.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of these liminal spaces, these turning points, the pressure of all that coming together.
[SPEAKER_01]: makes them resolve a very different character.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm there eyes.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I did say, you know, this is his first relationship out of the inner circle.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I'm selling song a little short, but even her relationship, I feel is a little bit transactional with the question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I questionally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm questionally.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, as I say.
[SPEAKER_02]: Escape.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's not just the drugs, but it's the escape, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would not say that he is friendly with song.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, and I'm sure that is friendly with the player.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he and countless other clients have been friendly with and charming with women that they think they seek as conquest, not as lovers.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I think it's a little bit more than that.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's song?
[SPEAKER_02]: More than it has been.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not, I don't want to sell it short.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you're saying, it is more.
[SPEAKER_02]: then that's just the conquest that the previous days have wanted.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, I do think there's a transactional nature to the level of escape and the drug access that makes it a little less heartwarming to me than the command.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, how many times have we seen Dave who a day who is not affected by his drug?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a relationship that's based not only upon a drug experience, but
[SPEAKER_01]: the person giving him the drug.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't think of that as, you know, a free and open friendship, you know, friendship for the sake of the friendship.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like you because of who you are, not what you can do for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he even makes her give him the drugs before he will tell her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she sees this as a sign of growing paranoia.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not going to give her more.
[SPEAKER_01]: But does find the yield because, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: power imbalance, come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because religious psychosis is a very powerful drug.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in song could never say no to him without significant consequences.
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, very unequal partnership.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: In that sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and a news flash watching the opening sequence again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, just before we see the prime radiant filling the screen is starting to rotate.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a scene that the flat wide open stretch that looks a little bit like an open desert with sparkly gold sand.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of the stretch is a tall statue of a woman and this woman is imitating the exact same gesture that we saw song give when she was signaling to dimmer self with the finger the right hand.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's going on now?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, seriously, I think we're going to see more of the inheritance at some point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that very well could be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Very well could be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, why don't we move on to a parlay?
[SPEAKER_02]: Don offers a truce to the mule and to make him an imperial vice-roy and gives him access to the jump gate network if he agrees.
[SPEAKER_02]: The mule already has a jump gate.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's taken it over and he refuses empires demands.
[SPEAKER_02]: proceeds to painfully kill a soldier, and refuses to help the soldier enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now that magnifico is gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's so sad that magnifico's gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not in the mood to lighten up the load here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dawn tells the other Clions in Demosel.
[SPEAKER_02]: He wants to ask the council for permission to move, but he's refused by day.
[SPEAKER_02]: The middle chair refuses.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the way he says that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trying to make it not personal.
[SPEAKER_01]: because you're my kid brother, and I really love you, and I'm sorry that they had to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God, I missed your attention.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll get there in a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've ordered it in this way for a reason, because I was like, I don't want to end on the Mules depravity.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to end on a nice moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very thankful that you don't wish to end on depravity, John.
[SPEAKER_02]: I try.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one of my models.
[SPEAKER_01]: You do very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, a lovely exchange.
[SPEAKER_01]: But before the meeting of the three of them, but before the meeting with the meal, between Don and Dusk, Don handles Dusk brilliantly one more time, calling him a repository of past wisdom and experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: And interestingly, when it comes to this question of yes or no to the meal, Don or Dusk is speaking from experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's looking to the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, this has happened before, it'll happen again, why the big deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he almost, it's like he looks a little more closely than just a random question says, so, you know, why are you pushing this so hard anyway?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Dawn, you know, kind of channels it very skillfully around and said, well, you know, I'm trying to stop the end of our then SD for months.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he can avoid the whole, what are your information sources?
[SPEAKER_01]: And dusk actually refers to him as day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's quite.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he's acting like day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's taken on the mantle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's had his ascension.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's, you know, thinking he had making research.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's taking on responsibility for the empire.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if dust thinks he's making, you know, wrong choices about how to best serve that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He still recognizes that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it does he does he actually calm the day the twenty-fourth at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we get that the date this he will be the twenty-fourth day if he gets to that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: All they got they got forty days, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So for four months, was that it?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I four months and he only needs another a few days, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess they're all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has, you know, one day too many.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some people might say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gosh, where the capital D. Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think you're right that Dawn is, you know, Dawn is a very agile player.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really interesting to see day push back for once.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I like your choice of that word.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very good word for agile.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can respond at the moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really don't think I've seen him lose his pool outwardly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in where the he might be, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: say oh shit why can't I wherever but he doesn't he doesn't show it right and remember last episode that this that dawn said hey I I'm not a drinker so I'm not going to be drinking I do remember that quite quite physically well when we get back we're going to break that rule
[SPEAKER_02]: We're back for strength, wisdom, and fortitude.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very valuable qualities we can all use more of.
[SPEAKER_02]: When Clion the seventh became day, he asked the stars for strength, wisdom, and fortitude.
[SPEAKER_02]: His advisor had it him all three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that line.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Clion's all share a flask of hard liquor and have a nice family moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really not a lot more to say here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I adored this scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the only time I can remember the three faces of Empire coming together as a family.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Historical traditions got a pass it on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh God, I'm sorry, Mr. Ascension.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry about what you did.
[SPEAKER_01]: You did the thing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You did the family tradition and you got it here now, don't you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was so worried it was going to be a hazing ritual.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh interesting and it wasn't it was really a general thing and that was nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I went to college again.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: That never occurred to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think because the vibe I thought the vibe was so different from that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's when it didn't pledge to a fraternity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very sensible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, like you said, I don't like we've seen them truly bond like this before.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen them argue.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen them, you know, be a little show me sometimes.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the past, when we see them share meals, they're just acting exactly like the other ones, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like the whole point.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're identical.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're parallel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they've always been parallel, but now they're different enough where they are a family and a family is messy and a family has differences.
[SPEAKER_02]: And our family is able to compensate for each other's ups and downs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of the first time I watched it, I could have sworn I saw Don actually spew out the leg of the first time.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was struggling.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't drink, but I watched it more closely this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was gagging on it, but he did not spit it out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He holds it down.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: For somebody who does not drink, well, he knew this was
[SPEAKER_01]: a really important moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was symbolic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was bonding.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, you know, time with his brothers being just brothers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I say, I think that certainly it's the only time I remember seeing this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, one thing about the, um, when the discussion where they're making this decision, um, and Demosal says, we cannot guarantee that the meal will hurt us.
[SPEAKER_01]: but the council will, if we give them any opportunity to do so.
[SPEAKER_01]: And day pays attention to this.
[SPEAKER_01]: That really seems to tip the balance for him, which is interesting when you consider how he is raging in our face.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: He saw them two of them together.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think actually those scenes were reversed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just flip things over.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even so, even so, it's
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been slanging her already calling her it and everything for some time now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So clearly he still listens to her when she's giving suggestions or advice or whatever you want to call it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not going to pay with him personally.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is still why she still has knowledge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this day is marked to recognize she has four more knowledge than he'll ever have.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for all of his, his, his severity behavior, he doesn't want the empire to end either.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in a decision, you know, this, it's serious.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more serious than they think at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he is willing to listen to him or so.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just thought that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does also remind me of the new Republican Star Wars, how they are always so hesitant to act, that it, he fights him in the butt in the end, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true in canon and legends.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we see that even in the rebellion, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: In Andorra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: We saw this hesitancy like, oh, do we really know what's true?
[SPEAKER_02]: Can we call it this intel?
[SPEAKER_02]: And this has been a joke and that's been going around.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I say a joke, but it's a very serious thing that people are joking about because satire is often the way to the truth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this idea that
[SPEAKER_02]: the people will try to do the right thing will carefully plan things out and go through a fair process and here everyone's voices and it takes them forever to do that and the people trying to do the wrong thing will just do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's it is a structural disadvantage that you need to keep.
[SPEAKER_02]: You need that structural disadvantage to be able to consider yourself the good side, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you need some kind of process.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, you have to ask yourself at some point like, at what point do we step in?
[SPEAKER_02]: And do we stop the evil?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there may be contingencies, like, you know, we're still so small if we don't all agree on this decision.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It won't work even for those of us who are really committed to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's an interesting parallel there with how, as a must set up foundation, the tension between on the one hand, oh, the seldom-plantal sabas, the best thing we can do
[SPEAKER_01]: is in action.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the individuals who say seldom helps those who helps themselves and we got to do something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Feels like a lot like religion doesn't it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's debates over that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some kind of free role versus predestination.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yep, yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it requires a certain concept of divinity, however you run a label that, which
[SPEAKER_01]: not all this necessarily hold with either, but that's that's another organization.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, oh, you can press the button to call your Calvinist.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you ever want to see a frustrating meeting, go to a business meeting for worship or a meeting for worship for business.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you got your meeting and, yeah, you may get an ear full.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you may not, you know, obviously each one is individual.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a necessary decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like when groups started using consensus-based decision-making.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody ever said it was efficient.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody ever said it was fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, if a decision is based upon consensus, it's more likely to be carried out because everybody feels like they have a part of it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas if you just arbitrarily say, this is what we're doing, those who agree with you will be very happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those who disagree with you will feel not heard.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, their wisdom is ignored.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are they out to get me?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it just, it kind of can escalate from there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if there's, there's problems to, to any particular form unless it happens to be based on somebody.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm mission, but that's worth finding out in this series, even the omniscience of mathematics.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things go wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then what do you do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have a speculation section.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have anything that you haven't brought up yet?
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, let me see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I just thought it was funny that at first I thought that song was going to dessert day because she's afraid of robots.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got to know the marically as I'm going there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, no, a marically as I'm has to go like an entire season of.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, well, too bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: You got to, you got to really hammer down incorrectly on a theory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Resolved in the same episode, I don't think don't worry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't beat yourself up over it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, believe me, I wasn't going to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if I didn't go to all series.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: The first time I was struck by how frequently dimmer zel changes her outfits.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of wonder why is this apart from a reason to display the fabulous skills of the costume makers for this series?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I guess it could convey some sense of humanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: because robots wouldn't necessarily care about fashion, but of course humans would.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also giving a sense of change over time so that that whole thing of, you know, how is this person living forever?
[SPEAKER_00]: At least there's some sense of, you know, oh, yeah, okay, they're changing their, you know, style sense is different and so on, but I don't know, it just seemed extraneous, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's turning in you, or I just over speculative.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know quite why that's happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I agree with your thoughts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a good direction to go in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the street version is she's a clone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not a robot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I be so often a new one is candid.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe that's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just maybe everybody thinks that there's like ten demos of homes running around and each one has a different dress on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they all for some reason are always the same age.
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's a question for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: If the prime radiant reflects nothing but seldom's mathematics.
[SPEAKER_01]: How is it that the meal tail suddenly pops up in the prime radiant?
[SPEAKER_02]: So good question.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that in this world, in this version, not in the books, but in this show version, there's some kind of like surveillance network that that self would set up where data is constantly being fed into the Prime Radiant so you can see what's going on in the universe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though Voltaire doesn't have a Prime Radiant.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, right, but the Prime Radiant can be in multiple places of months, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh... Well, yeah, it's now in Empire and with... Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kill Dornick, and I don't think Yel Dornick is feeding anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, um, interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe she was, because she kept seeing dreams.
[SPEAKER_01]: And... And when she first tells Dawn about it three years before the actual physical appearance of Yel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm going to... I'm willing to eat some cereal on this one, and just...
[SPEAKER_02]: Leave that one away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I like it because it gives a sense of this isn't just the mathematics.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's there's capital letters, something else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, that would have for if I'd as a muffin would have also, I think, for if I a lot of sci-fi people who feel that the religion and the science should be entirely separate or the spirituality or the
[SPEAKER_01]: whatever you want to call it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's definitely some more magic in the show than there is in the books, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, for lack of a better word, I really do think there is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also interesting to note how much we're seeing about aging and death.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your previous episode, we saw Selden aging on Ignis and contrasting it with the clear and conniptions trying to avoid it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it can potentially raise questions about, well, what am I going to do when my time come?
[SPEAKER_01]: Will do I really want to know?
[SPEAKER_01]: I told you that story last time about the, but none who would love to know the day of her death, because that means she would know what to read next.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's an interesting theme that they have really pulled out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I can point to any instance of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything else for you, John?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I have any theories that I can talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do have one theory that I kind of want to talk to you about off-air.
[SPEAKER_02]: About I have certain character at the second foundation right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think let's talk about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe when we do our feedback episode mid-season, we'll do a little spoiler territory.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll do a winner at the end where we do some spoiler stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that'd be fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that'd be fun too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're both on pins and needles to see if our shared favorite personal theory.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a couple of different theories going on right out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, it'd be fun to have a section in which we encourage book readers to send in their speculations.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, at least you usually call it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking the tin foil hat corner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever you want to call it, I don't care.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we could all put our tin foil hats for a little while.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we designated as the, you know, the speculation slash tin foil hat corner.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: The speculation station.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that much better speculation station.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's, let's run with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, check out the other shows on the network, everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be back next week with more foundation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can also get we're doing second breakfast on tacos this month.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're doing our Val Kilmer film fest for elevities.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that will be covering the movie Heat.
[SPEAKER_02]: So those two are subscriber exclusives.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can get those on the Patreon or Supercast links in the show notes along with our whole back catalog.
[SPEAKER_02]: So go and enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now it's the time now that it's a summer where a little bit slower on content because the flood of content is finally slowed to a steady river.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a good time to catch up on things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and make sure you stick around because after foundation or I think during foundation, we're going to have Ellie and Earth coverage done by David.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Alicia's planning some piecemaker coverage.
[SPEAKER_02]: She also just released at the time I'm recording with Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alicia just released her Superman podcast, but it'll be a couple weeks old by the time this comes out.
[SPEAKER_02]: But still go look, go listen to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hear that Superman is doing great.
[SPEAKER_02]: People are loving it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, in this future past time frame, I will be seeing it with Bob in a couple of days.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am hopeful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am really hopeful.
[SPEAKER_01]: My personal Superman has always been the Christopher Reeves, nineteen seventy seven version.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all the subsequent ones just fell further and further away from that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But people have said it reminds them of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, people say this is a great car can.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm feeling hopeful.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so make sure you check out the other shows as I mentioned radioactive ramlings is doing fallout coverage.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got probably Howard movie review currently doing their bacon rap season.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got never mind them music doing their psychology and music collaboration very very good stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got, uh, what else you got?
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll shift dust is doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do now.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got more coming on rings and rituals.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to go back and listen to that and what rewatches and one of rings of power.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, we've got more stories kind of timeline podcasts of coming.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, uh, definitely check that out, Marilyn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And tomorrow in this recording time, Alicia and I are going to be recording a what you're watching episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Very good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Another subscriber exclusive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this will be on the life of Chuck.
[SPEAKER_02]: Very cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to listening to that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are those are a new subscriber benefit.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've been doing where we do these very quick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fifteen, twenty-minute check-ins on, hey, you know, you watch something you're excited about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why don't we talk about it for a little bit for just a little bit?
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's see if we see that my teacher can.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's going to be like two hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: Save it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm telling you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Twenty minutes.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know you can live in hope if you watch every time David pitches me like fifteen minute podcast and like no one pay no, but we did we did actually do one for I forgot what should I talked about with him?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you did but that was that was pretty quick
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, everyone, go to the Discord, go to our Patreon, supercast, if you want more.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all in the link in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: For now, I want to say thank you to our Discord server boosters, Aaron Kay, Tila, the thriller, Dark of the Ninja's, Doov-Sivity-One, Athena-A, Tina-Lis, Tune-Nancy, M-Ghost, British, and Radioactive Richard.
[SPEAKER_02]: And our lore master, Samarche and Michael G. Michelle E. Brian P. S. C. Peter O'H.
[SPEAKER_02]: Adam S. Nancy M. Doe, seventy-one Brian, eighty-sixy-three.
[SPEAKER_02]: Frederick H. Sarah L. Garth C. Matthew M. Sarah M. Andre B. Kwangiew, Jedi Jedi Bob, Nathan T. Alex V. Sub-Zero.
[SPEAKER_02]: Aaron K. Delivey, mothership-sixty-one, NURLS.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kathy W. Lestu, Jeffrey B. Eliseo, Neil F. Benby, Scott F. Steven N. Julia F. Collias, Bill Mario, forward slash Tim, Paul K. Bobby C. and Adrienne.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you everyone, and we'll see you next week on the foundation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks folks, bye-bye.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Lower Hounds podcast is produced in public by the Lower Hounds.
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