[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to Let's Not Sugar Coated.
[SPEAKER_02]: Season three is here and we're excited to dive into the core of communication, relationships, and leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are hosts, Bella and Lee, husband and wife do with successful business helping couples and organizations get it together to play a bigger game and elevate the relationships and performance.
[SPEAKER_02]: We believe in keeping it we also each week will bring you incredible guests on Twitter sharing their authentic experiences along with episodes featuring just the two of us tackling the tough topics.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're ready to enhance your connections and sharpening your leadership skills, you're in the right place.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get started.
[SPEAKER_02]: bring back to the show for the third time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Amy Cohen, Amy is an event, Maven, mentor and personal brand expert.
[SPEAKER_02]: She is amazing wife, mother and entrepreneur.
[SPEAKER_02]: She is
[SPEAKER_02]: quality retreats.
[SPEAKER_02]: All over the world, she's done Okinawan retreat, Tuscany and France, states on New York, all those kind of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now she has opened up Okinawan corporate retreats.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, we wanted to welcome Amy, a good friend, amazing woman, a community builder and a connector.
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, sometimes when you hear your own bio, it's like as my kids would say a bit cringe and only because we don't give ourselves enough, you know, praise in our accomplishments.
[SPEAKER_03]: So thank you and it's a pleasure to be here with both of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So today we want to talk about, again, communication and relationships.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you haven't a business.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've had multiple business.
[SPEAKER_02]: You maneuvered through many things in your life.
[SPEAKER_02]: So just tell us a little bit about, you know, like your personal story, why events, why corporate, and then how you get community and how do you communicate with people to get you to come and trust and, you know, show up for you just like you show up for them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a loaded question.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I will jump right into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'll start with a little bit more about me and how it all began.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm from a small town, which I really want all the listeners to understand my story, doesn't matter where you come from, and it doesn't matter where you were born.
[SPEAKER_03]: The goal and the mission and life should be to live your best life, to go after your big dreams, and really follow your passions.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's exactly what I've done.
[SPEAKER_03]: I took myself to college.
[SPEAKER_03]: got a student loan was not handed anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really found something I loved, which I changed early on.
[SPEAKER_03]: So a lot of people don't know this about me, but I started my education as a paramedic.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I loved helping people.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the reason I got into that was because right after high school, I decided, I didn't know what I wanted to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't, I had to invest in myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to take out a loan.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I really did sit with what I wanted to do because I was going to have to pay this back.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was going to have to find something I loved.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I wasn't fully confident in what that was going to be in high school.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I worked at a home for
[SPEAKER_03]: mentally challenged adults and had to go and get a course or had to take a course CPR and then advanced CPR and then EMR, emergency medical responder.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that course I had to show up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to go to Winnipeg, remember I'm from a small town so I had to drive in an hour, a little over an hour.
[SPEAKER_03]: And invest in myself and I loved this.
[SPEAKER_03]: So fast forward a year.
[SPEAKER_03]: I went to Calgary for a paramedics program, loved it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I talk a lot about showing up, which is something that I'm super.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's been the baseline of my entire career and all my accomplishments.
[SPEAKER_03]: I show up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I say yes to opportunities.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I saw a poster on the wall getting ready to go to college and it was for soccer triads.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I tried out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was not good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me tell you what things I said.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was not a superstar.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I showed up and I was very, very dedicated and I was willing to give it my all.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the coach clearly could see that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I wasn't a starter to start.
[SPEAKER_03]: I played wing and left and right wing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I loved it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved it in high school.
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved it.
[SPEAKER_03]: in college, I made the team.
[SPEAKER_03]: So for any of you listening in Canada, college you, you don't get recruited per say.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't lot of the smaller colleges, maybe some of the bigger universities you do.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I got my tuition fully paid for.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this was like, you know, that piece of show up, show up because you never know what's on the other side, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: They say you're one
[SPEAKER_03]: door from being open to your next big opportunity.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what that was.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that gave me such like I was in a space of people that were so like minded because they were going after their big dreams.
[SPEAKER_03]: And most of the girls I played soccer with were on school for business.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a college in Calgary that was really known for their business program.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I ended up switching.
[SPEAKER_03]: So my journey ended up unbeknownst to my family, my parents were like, are you sure?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I hadn't keep my license.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do my practicum still, which gave me some, I think, it has you, again, showing up, but I was kind of almost living these two lives, so to speak, because I was on this journey of something now, I really, really loved, which was entrepreneurship and business.
[SPEAKER_03]: knowing I would want to have a business in the future, but also, like, I've invested in, you know, this paramedic program as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Freddie, but he listening, you have to have a class four license to drive an ambulance.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's a whole other story.
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew I would never own an ambulance company.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't want to be told how many days off
[SPEAKER_03]: or on I needed to work so quickly that was something I shifted but I have such fond memories of that time in my life because I again showed up for education showed up for something I loved and found you know a true passion of mine.
[SPEAKER_03]: and got into beauty, because I always loved makeup.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so all of my projects, all of my essays, anything I had to do now in my second year of school, because I did go year one for paramedics, which is called an EMT-II program.
[SPEAKER_03]: Paramedics is a four-year program.
[SPEAKER_03]: And anything I did in business, I did around beauty.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was very inspired, incredibly,
[SPEAKER_03]: eager and very curious.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that has propelled and taken.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was essentially where I would say was the starting point in my real entrepreneurship journey as most people know it today.
[SPEAKER_03]: I opened makeup schools several years later.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was a makeup artist for years in Calgary doing a lot of top
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, TV segments, the fashion, the trends working with models and doing editorial and campaigns, bridal, and then I moved to LA in New York.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where my kind of big career took off.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, that's my journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, me, you mentioned showing up a couple of times.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in a couple of times.
[SPEAKER_01]: And can you walk us through, you know, what that means for you, like I'm
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, some people probably know have a good sense of maybe what showing up is some people might just be like, what do you mean, like, just physically showing up?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, maybe walk us through what that means for you and then also, you know, how has showing up for you evolved?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, from the time where you were going down a path of being a paramedic, how showing up meant for you playing software to now, how it shows up for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: that the term showing up as a successful entrepreneur now with all the big things you got going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're so right in the in the term in the, you know, it really is a mindset.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's very much a way of being.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it is not just putting your foot through a door.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not just opening the door.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not just sitting in the seat or being at the table.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is way more than that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is about mentally wanting to crack open.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is about choosing to be uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is really about saying yes to opportunities that potentially aren't your greatest wins, but build that resilience.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it is so all encompassing personally and professionally.
[SPEAKER_03]: My greatest greatest from memories and opportunities have come from showing up from saying yes from
[SPEAKER_03]: the people I've met to the opportunities that I get to bank and say I've got experience in this and this has been propelled me to that next chapter.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, it's one thing to show up in business and for community, but there's also a family involved, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So showing up for your children, showing up for your husband, looks a little different as an entrepreneur because we don't have a nine to five, you know, it's many hours.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how would you say,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you grew from, you know, running the business as a solopener, then meeting your husband, going into business, having the children, all changes, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we shift, we mold, we maneuver, and now it's not only showing up for ourselves and our community and our business and, you know, the people that work for us, but now we have other little human beings, which we need to show up in a certain way as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what has changed?
[SPEAKER_02]: How did you guys work?
[SPEAKER_02]: That out, because it's hard as, you know, a couple of nerves.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard sometimes finding that balance of, you know, where do I put my energy?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we cannot be a hundred percent everywhere at all times.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, so that is something that has been a huge part of my journey.
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course, you know, starting out the career without children on married, you know, really ambitious moving to another country, starting my career there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had everything to lose and so much to gain.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I knew I could always, you know, come home.
[SPEAKER_03]: The doors always open.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so a huge part of my mindset and my just being comes from that security that my parents were like, push, go, will always be here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I really instill that in not only with my boys and with my family, I have two two boys and my husband who is also an entrepreneur.
[SPEAKER_03]: A huge part is I have always been who I am.
[SPEAKER_03]: So even though I evolved and I'm sure we'll talk about that is I've always really
[SPEAKER_03]: made a point to follow my passions to believe in myself and do the things that actually feel good and right for me versus going down to path because the money may have been good going down to path because you know the influence was there being distracted with you know the presence of you know being in a big city and and the noise it was really about like what I was willing to sacrifice because
[SPEAKER_03]: entrepreneurship is a sacrifice.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the most beautiful way, in most cases, but can be challenging when you have kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've always been very honest about my career.
[SPEAKER_03]: My kids know it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I brought them to my businesses.
[SPEAKER_03]: When I started in New York City, I had Luca, our oldest.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he, we would come.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd take the scroll down the weekends, clean the studio.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I, I've always been somebody that has taken such pride in in my work.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I would, you know, get everything ready for, you know, the week ahead and he'd be there and and say him when I expanded to Los Angeles and Ted Rocco.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our youngest, so they've been around it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I openly speak about what I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I encourage them to follow their dreams and passions and have conversations about what that might look like for them, which I
[SPEAKER_03]: Hope they don't even know yet because maybe it doesn't even exist and they will just, you know, I think choosing to be open with your family and be have these conversations.
[SPEAKER_03]: In entrepreneurship, but also in your career, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is mom gone all the time or why is this busy season or why is.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, are we not traveling as much for, you know, around the holidays, you know, maybe I'm expanding.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe there's a season of change in some ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's just open conversation.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's the most important because that's how we all evolve.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think like definitely where you're talking about, you know, being open and honest and really comes down to communication.
[SPEAKER_02]: Having your partner involved coming together and saying, okay, this season of my life and my business, I need to put in eighty percent there and twenty percent here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you able to meet the other, you know, whatever percent
[SPEAKER_02]: with the family and the boys and then include them in, you know, our vision and our mission.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a big thing for the and I is, you know, you run parallel lives sometimes and you don't cross pollinate.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't keep each other in the loop and then it's like, okay, well, we come home and then yeah, you tell me a little bit about your day and so on.
[SPEAKER_02]: But where are we going?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where are we doing this?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't have a vision for why we're doing this, you know, you're just kind of puts in a long.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it lost in the mix.
[SPEAKER_01]: As you're talking, it makes me think about that there's really more than just one showing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a showing up for yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's a showing up for others.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, whether it's with your kids, with, you know, your spouse in business, right, your people that work for you or your clients, question here is,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, has there been a time maybe that you talk about where there was this, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: an intersection of going to show up for you and trying to show up for someone else and how there wasn't alignment there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how did you work through that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think that happens a lot of times in life, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And we, you know, we get lost in I think showing up for a lot of other people all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because sometimes showing up for ourselves following our own dreams.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially if it's down kind of a non-normal or non-traditional path or like, oh well you sure you want to start kind of questioning yourself and then you kind of feel pressured to kind of like fall into other people's ideas of what's the right thing to do for you and then so in some ways you're showing up for them because you want to please them you want to be liked you want to look good to them but then you're not showing up for yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the show up for yourself can then you're kind of faced with a whole lot of people are thinking I'm not going to make it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you just got to keep showing up for yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, that is, well, just a point and then I'll come back to the question, but the point that you just made Lee is, and then, you know, and then you're showing up for others and, you know, there's a sense of either letting yourself down, which I think is the biggest disappointment, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: We're getting through life and looking back and saying, I didn't.
[SPEAKER_03]: That to me is like my biggest fear.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, no, I am going to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: about that does take effort that does take communication and you've got to quiet the noise because people are always going to have an opinion, but if I cared about what other people thought about me, I would not be where I am today, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I would not be willing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would not have opened a school in New York City, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: If you just think about that on the
[SPEAKER_03]: fundamental side of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: New York City, one of the most vivacious thriving cities in the world, um, to open up and make up school and not only open it up, but have a line out the door and move into a space less than a year later in demand hadn't get fully licensed.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was the first school to be licensed for, um, so I got licensed for make up artistry, but also for hairstyling has a noncosmatology school.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was, I mean, it just wasn't being done.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was, I imagined our students being able to have more education, but not have to go down, you know, another year-long program.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was about being willing to try, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Be willing to show up to say, hey, what could this look like?
[SPEAKER_03]: And be willing to get the nose, which, to be honest and fair, I've got a lot of nose.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, and
[SPEAKER_03]: push back and was able to crack through.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that I think naturally happens in life.
[SPEAKER_03]: If we just bump up against the norm and the mediocre mediocracy, I don't think that life is as joyful and as full as we can truly have it for ourselves, really.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, yeah, do well to the other point that the question is,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, being married, being in a relationship, having a partnership, having a business partner, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: There are expectations.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are, it's not always fifty, fifty, no matter how you slice it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes it is more eighty, twenty, as you mentioned, Bella.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that part from my life has not always been.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's not always easy.
[SPEAKER_03]: The thing is is, I mentioned this earlier, I have always followed my passion, something that truly lit me up.
[SPEAKER_03]: that I felt really good about, and it's not always been easy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've had to be in the messy middle.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've had to do work with the accountants, try and expand a business that you're like, where's the cash flow, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, males, where are they?
[SPEAKER_03]: All of those iterations of business ups and downs, people leaving, hiring challenges,
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the thing is is communication, communication, communication is so, so important.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that you really focus on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: On your podcast, and for me, it's about having open conversations with my husband.
[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes they're very difficult because I see it away and he thinks, don't do it like why are you focusing on this?
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're getting distracted, you know, X, Y, or Z come back to, you know, this school.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's happened multiple times.
[SPEAKER_03]: And sometimes I'm not always, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so happy hearing it, but I don't think he's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I sit with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But actually it goes both ways, because there's things that I've been shocked that I've shared that I'm not that type of person, like I just like to kind of let things be all taken.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the high road and kind of just to have it be smoother.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I also don't want my children to see that either.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've had to learn to say, hey, I am, you know, I don't
[SPEAKER_03]: got walked all over, but I certainly will be like, okay, like, you know, there's room for the other person to have more of the seat at the table and it's like, wait a minute, we are of equal.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's actually come to that place, you know, because that's also what I want to show young people and people I'm mentoring and of course my children.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think in relationships, especially it hasn't been in life, we need to learn.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are not taught how to communicate with each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are not taught how to show up for each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is like a bump in grind until you figure out your methods.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I love that you said that you, you know, even though it may have not sat well, you still communicate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: because I know for a long time, I just let things, like you said, go.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then resentment built, because then I feel like my voice isn't heard.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as a partnership, in relationship and in business, you need to know that you're able to have your voice heard with anything, the good, the bad, the ugly, all of it, in a safe environment because you're a team.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're winning, he's winning and vice versa.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I love that you, you know, you said, even when it hard even to hear some of the feedback, you sat with it and said, okay, you know, this actually makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that again, it's that alignment, your vision, your goals, having that target or where you guys want to be is so key.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because then it's easier to say yes or no to the other things, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what's really, I kind of have a little bit of a laugh in hearing it back because it is so true.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that could mean so many different things for different people.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know personally for me, it is and in our family.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of times it's, I'll have a big wild dream and then it'll cost a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, you know, the conversation might be like, okay, like how does this look?
[SPEAKER_03]: But there was recently a very big goal that I had.
[SPEAKER_03]: All of my business for anybody listening thus far has been bootstrapped.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've not ever had an investor previously.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've not had business partner.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm very grateful to have a husband who, you know, is a business manager in many ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, and then of course hiring out the people that I lawyers if needed.
[SPEAKER_03]: accountants, those sort of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, but this, you know, quite wild dream and I'm a big dreamer was one that was sitting with me and was not going away.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know what you have this feeling that is just
[SPEAKER_03]: It's there and you're super excited about it and you can't stop thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had that and I had that for the chic experience so that was you know a five or so years ago and I was still you know really heavily
[SPEAKER_03]: in the mix of my beauty schools and did not see a way that I could have both even though there was the only way that I was going to see my future and I didn't know exactly what it would look like but I wasn't going to stop thinking about it and I took some time and you know when you step back from a business that is your essentially generating sales
[SPEAKER_03]: you're wanting to, whether you're scaling or you're wanting to increase profits or at least retain what you have because you have a team and rent and all the overhead to cover.
[SPEAKER_03]: I made a big bold move and someone argued that it could potentially have failed and in some ways maybe it did because actually sales did decrease.
[SPEAKER_03]: So sometimes you have to, I think, look at what
[SPEAKER_03]: that future could look like.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know for me what I wanted was so much brighter on the other side.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was willing to let some things go.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in most cases and a lot of times people, that's why I say like some people might not agree with this because there is entrepreneurs or business owners that would say, well, just hire a whole team and let them handle it and then you can.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that costs money, that still is in my, you know, every day.
[SPEAKER_03]: agenda or you know conversations popping up that you know distractions and it wasn't the way for me and I needed to clear some of the table and that did mean a reset and yeah and sometimes I feel like you know we hold on to something because it's generating you know a certain level of comfort or money but we're
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're, but it's not satisfying that void, that feeling of that there's something more.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we still hold onto it because we fear of losing what we've already built because we sometimes don't believe in ourselves that we are worthy of more expansion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we sometimes don't believe in ourselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: to grow and scale and take that chance that there is, like you said, something better on the other side.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, the, I always say that the mind is for creating not containing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when we talk about communication, even when we are trying to contain the potential bad outcomes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're using this example all we're going to do this business shift.
[SPEAKER_01]: but it might result in reduced revenue.
[SPEAKER_01]: You kind of harbor that and hold on to it and rarely does that narrative get better.
[SPEAKER_01]: when you're just holding on to it yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the important part going back to kind of the earlier conversation around, you know, vision, mission and how you kind of communicate with your with your family, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure for them and for yourself is not just to say, hey, I've got this big bold vision and just talk about the shiny stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also like, here's the risk.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then really break it down and say, and so, so, you know, if this happens, how do we show up for each other?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's easy to figure out and know how we're going to show up for each other when things are going great.
[SPEAKER_01]: When things start to fall apart, it's like, how do we have these conversations and create this own safe container?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're on the same team, it's win-win.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That things might happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's easy for us if we don't set that intention to fall into like a blame game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: All you shouldn't have, you know, business because now we're in this position, so we don't want to get into that because that's not helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know, did you guys have any of that type of conversation when you're making this shift or think about that at all?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes, I was thinking of a couple of times and not just once actually, so I'm going back to the time we lived in.
[SPEAKER_03]: Los Angeles.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we had, I had spent fifteen years, fifteen and a half years in the state and now live in Canada.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the conversation when my husband was wanting to move to Canada and he's not Canadian.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm the Canadian.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's from the UK.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he's from London and we have our boys and we wanted to have
[SPEAKER_03]: roots and have them in an education system and really thrive in an area that we could come and go for career for careers but we also knew that they were you know in a beautiful safe place and Canada is incredible in so many ways and so that
[SPEAKER_03]: Desit that conversation did not go well.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were not on the same page.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was not ready to hear that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I could not envision how running a US business in Canada was there's a border and it might not seem like it's that big of a deal, but it actually is.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is two different countries.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that felt very overwhelming.
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt like this enormous amount of pressure and stress.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it actually weighed on me to a point that I wasn't expecting.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then COVID happened, we did move and COVID happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I was in this like big, like in the trenches, let's just say.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what was interesting is we talk about showing up for me, I can find joy in so much because I
[SPEAKER_03]: I choose that, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And wherever I am, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's not for me so much about the things, it's about what I'm doing, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: My community, my family, my career.
[SPEAKER_03]: I take pride in my career.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that was a hard conversation, and that was one that did not end.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was about a year.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was a long time to be in, and it wasn't every day, and there wasn't, it was a space that I wasn't super comfortable in, because I didn't like what I thought the outcome could be.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I sat with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those, one of the first times in like,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, really a kind of big career move also family kids more than just me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I ended up really kind of just pausing and having these conversations back with my husband to ask him more about why he was feeling this.
[SPEAKER_03]: what he saw, what life looked like for him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And as I heard it through his lens, it started making a lot more sense to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I really encourage people to don't when you're hearing something, it's not just a one way road.
[SPEAKER_03]: Have the conversation back.
[SPEAKER_03]: take time to just sit with it and not have any conversation for a while.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe even talk to somebody that is a confidant or somebody close and just kind of say it aloud and get it off your chest.
[SPEAKER_03]: For me, it was just like I sat with it and circled back on it and that kind of became the motion for actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: This does seem really exciting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am good with this.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was a long process or what felt like a very long process to be one of the greatest choices and decisions that we have made because it actually,
[SPEAKER_03]: fullheartedly, wholeheartedly believe I would not have expanded to a completely new adventure.
[SPEAKER_03]: When I did, I may have hung around longer in a business that I'm very proud of, but also it's not all of me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not the only thing that, you know, is it was meant to be part of my journey.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I
[SPEAKER_03]: Jumped up the cliff and flew.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I look at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really good communication examples there.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the first ones is having that awareness that on default, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We listen through filters that usually we don't, we're not taught to notice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when somebody starts talking to you, it comes up with an idea or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't align with what you, what your vision, what your future, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That predictable certain future you're trying to build.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then all of a sudden, the listening is either you're listening through like an agree or don't agree, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're immediately like, oh, yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nope, don't agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or, or it's a, or it's a right, right and wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, no, you're not, I don't like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then once we're listening through that lens, that's all we can hear.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all we see.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the gold of what's being talked about gets filtered out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all that gets through is all the parts that we don't like.
[SPEAKER_01]: And once you become aware that that's happening, then you can go, you can shift.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be this polarized.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, if I'm not listening through wrong, then I got to compromise and agree or say the right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a now you get into a state of inquiry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you get curious, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's, I think Stephen Kavie says, really seek to understand first, then be understood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that has to come from a place of curiosity, great questions to what you just said draw out what what lens are they looking through.
[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't mean you have to agree with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just let's first find out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then once you have all the information, then you can, you know, make it make a decision at that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and that it's so interesting because when you are in a partnership of any kind back to, you know, being married or business partner decisions should a healthy business or a fighting business should have challenges should have, you know, times that you sit at the table and that you're really like
[SPEAKER_03]: questioning because you are wanting to you know have the best result and and I know recently I was looking at capacity and I was also challenging my identity because I was feeling like I was in an identity crisis and my husband you know saw this successful business that I'm running and I'm not
[SPEAKER_03]: feeling like I want to give a hundred percent to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to give fifty percent but I want to hold capacity for less.
[SPEAKER_03]: So still give a hundred percent but have capacity for way less and feel kind of my bucket career wise.
[SPEAKER_03]: with something that I was expanding on, which is the chic experience, and then now the Okadakun corporate retreat.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it took that took some time as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that took me explaining how this path could look because that path, that challenging time or communication.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was almost like looking at an outcome that
[SPEAKER_03]: was going to be less financially successful to have this big gap in what was an unknown.
[SPEAKER_03]: And and I was I spent the time to outline strategy come up with numbers very conservatively so it made sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not ambitious.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what that took.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was less and about the conversation and more about taking the action to actually show what this could look like to give.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, for me, it was my husband give him the confidence to be like, okay, yeah, I believe in you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know you're going to show up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know you're going to do it, but does it actually financially?
[SPEAKER_03]: Put money in the bank account today.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I love what I do and I'm very passionate and I actually truly do lead first with loving what I do and and the money has great has followed.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think if it's if it's not that way for you just you know, I think line it look look at it with a more of a lens as to maybe why not or what
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, corrections could be made, but everybody's journey is different.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so for mine, it took some some real numbers and some strategy and some systems in place to make it real.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really understood.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think it's like, you know, all comes down to, you know, the strength in your communication skills.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's a way of approaching your partner, whether it's in business or in life and how you present your ideas and how you present your side really matters and moving things forward versus, you know, coming and saying, this is what I want.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what I like.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't do this, if, you know, I don't get to do this where done or moving forward and so on.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I had one of those moments when we were moving to Kalona.
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't find myself in Edmonton and I got to that point where I didn't feel like I could tell my husband that I was suffering because I didn't think he would be able to take us or get on board
[SPEAKER_02]: are moving out, which I wanted for so long.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I came in hot and heavy.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was like, I want to move.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to Kalona, you know, if you don't want to come, you can stay here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, all these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[SPEAKER_02]: Listen, Linda, Linda, honey.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm on board.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I didn't hear that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I was already in that breakdown.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, he's not gonna do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not like, he's gonna hold me back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we did not have those type of communication because it's holding it back.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is so key to have those open and honest conversations in a loving compassionate way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And doing them often, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, not waiting for it to fester and make it bigger in your head than what it actually is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if I just said, hey, babe, I really am suffering.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can't do this anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: He would have been like, yeah, I hear you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I came in like a freaking thunderbolt.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I can't even hear the yes, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's, you know, Amy you mentioned earlier about, you know, when you think about a thriving business and what occurs inside of a thriving business, it's not just constant celebrations and everything, you know, going as planned rate of plan is at best the best guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so things naturally are going to come up that are unforeseeable and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's going to be difficult conversations and pivot points and stuff that's really going to challenge you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a thriving family, a thriving marriage is the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like in business, if you avoid those tough conversations that need to happen now, they're just going to show up later.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the conversation is going to be that much bigger, that much harder.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's like, these little uncomfortable, don't always have to be uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even if you feel like it's going to be an uncomfortable conversation, it's better to have that sooner because it's like an investment into
[SPEAKER_01]: preventing the bigger, more uncomfortable conversation from happening down the road.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's something that we're constantly continuing to learn about even in our marriage.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, hey, okay, let's work on having this now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll just say like, I think it's really important to take some principles like having a meeting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in Bella's talking about moving up to clone, I think about all the times where myself included,
[SPEAKER_01]: where it's like, oh, I want to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you express it kind of like just in passing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like maybe someone's in the kitchen or an use, but you don't actually like, if this is really important to me to move or to start this business or whatever, hey, I want to schedule a time with you, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's sit down for an hour.
[SPEAKER_01]: One works for you to sit down at the table so we can actually talk this through.
[SPEAKER_01]: not just, I want to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other person goes, well, yeah, of course, I love you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love the things that you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you don't spend the time then getting into like the detail of like you would like a business plan, a strategy, and like so, so what does this mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's it going to cost?
[SPEAKER_01]: How long is it going to take?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's it going to take us?
[SPEAKER_01]: How we're going to accomplish this?
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't get into that stuff in a, in a thirty-second passing comment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we should.
[SPEAKER_03]: We should treat it like a business plan.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that you said that, you know, treat it like you're going to the bank to get alone.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you probably don't even need to in those business situations.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if that was the strategy, as most people know, what would you do?
[SPEAKER_03]: You would do your due diligence.
[SPEAKER_03]: You would do your research.
[SPEAKER_03]: You would come up with a business plan.
[SPEAKER_03]: You would do the financials.
[SPEAKER_03]: You would do the projections.
[SPEAKER_03]: You would write you would put that package together.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do the same thing with your big goals with your family.
[SPEAKER_03]: A big goal is a family move.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a big goal.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome goal.
[SPEAKER_03]: And a big goal is starting a small business.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a big goal.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's amazing as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So whatever it is, it's not about, you know, the big goal needs to be something that
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, is a millions or is, you know, to the biggest city in the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: A big goal can be something that actually just moves the needle a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're, you know, in your whole life that can change so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I very much encourage, you know, listeners and people to sit with it, take stock of what that goal that you want, what outcome do you want?
[SPEAKER_03]: What is the plan, like what is the goal and then figure out a plan and invest in it and present it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We try and teach our kids that.
[SPEAKER_03]: For anybody who has children listening in our family, it's really important that they explain when they want something.
[SPEAKER_03]: We personally in our house don't do allowance, but we do because they're going to have everything they need.
[SPEAKER_03]: they can work towards a goal of something that they really want because that work has them investing into something that is meaningful, something that really rather than it being, you know, these small things that are just, you know, they just want it because it's it's right in front of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so for them, the money that comes from birthdays, the money that comes from celebrations, from, you know, their permits from different things go into their bank account.
[SPEAKER_03]: And
[SPEAKER_03]: like every six months twice a year I get their statement or they come with me and they get to see how much is in there and any money that granny sends or any you know birthday money we put in there and then that's theirs you know to kind of take stock of as well and if they want to spend it they need to come up with what's the plan what do you and what like what does this mean to you why do you want so it becomes the earlier conversations as well not just the ones that we as adults have to have that might seem you know bigger and more
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think just challenge it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It just comes part of how we communicate.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's like normalizing talks about money, religion, politics, because in society right now, those are the things we're told not to talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: How are we supposed to learn about our needs and others needs?
[SPEAKER_02]: If we're not talking about those very conversations that
[SPEAKER_02]: like forger future.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I mean, like this will be a part.
[SPEAKER_02]: Finance is gonna be part because they don't teach mortgages.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't teach investment in school politics.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I mean, we need to know our parties and religion.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's so much out there that we're not talking about because there's like the sphere of conflict.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like you said, babe, it's like, okay, Lee, sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's good listening to understand, not, you know, make someone wrong or to turn them to be, you know, aligned with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really listening to understand first and then having that conversation.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think choosing to educate yourself and having those in your life.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I love sharing knowledge.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did not grow up in a home that had books like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did not grow up in a home that was actively asking how school was and what I was, you know, learning.
[SPEAKER_03]: I personally I grew up in a small town.
[SPEAKER_03]: And but that is not why the education was the way it was for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: How it was was I had teachers that were not excited.
[SPEAKER_03]: They
[SPEAKER_03]: taught like they didn't want to be there, which is such a bummer because you've got these young children and I've seen the total opposite with the boys.
[SPEAKER_03]: They've had teachers that are so excited.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not, you know, something that, you know, has stuck with me where I'm like, oh, education isn't great.
[SPEAKER_03]: I, it actually made me realize how important it is to have great educators.
[SPEAKER_03]: And for us as communitarians to invest in the joy of, you know, they're going to go and get educated but encouraging them and having these amazing teachers teaching our children.
[SPEAKER_03]: We homeschooled our kids for a year and they had a great experience.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've done a couple of different iterations.
[SPEAKER_03]: And and I thought it's also looking at what works best for the individual, whether it's children, employees,
[SPEAKER_03]: relationships, what works best for that human, because we're all made very differently in our emotions, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And what brings us joy and what has this feeling like we're thriving?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we all have fundamental needs, but you know, I'll tell you that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's really important to look at the whole spectrum of a person and lean into that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any, I guess, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: tools or modalities, Amy, that you use to, and any of those examples of people to help you find out what is it that they need?
[SPEAKER_01]: How, how is it that they need you to show up for them?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think, you know, you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: People all have their needs, right, and everything, but I think it's easy for us to fall into this trap where we just constantly project
[SPEAKER_01]: what's worked for us what we believe all those things because it it gives us it helps us kind of like concrete reinstate our own sense of identity right like this is how I live my life and it's easy with kids or others or even in business you know this is how I've run my business now you're working for me and so I want you to do the this the way I've done that I want my kids go to school the way I've gone to school right because it I don't know makes it makes you feel like you've done things the right way but
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's not what they need.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it robs them from their own sense of independence as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just curious, back to the questions, just what are some tools you used to try and figure that out?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so tools, I specifically use one is more of an action-based tool.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just listening.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's super-zimble.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's actually listening.
[SPEAKER_03]: wholeheartedly and letting the person feel seen, truly know that when they're with me, I'm hearing them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that simplicity,
[SPEAKER_03]: has changed so much truly.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other thing is also in everyone's uniqueness, right, in learning and being around people, whether you're introverted or extroverted, whether you're someone who thrives in, you know, social environments or big cities or in our own uniqueness, I think it's really important to
[SPEAKER_03]: ask questions as well right so when I'm hiring or I'm working with people like what do you love to do tell me more so that you know I am meeting you where you're at and I can help encourage you to thrive I don't need to hold your hand I shouldn't have do right we don't want to necessarily have everyone on our team playing the same position right we want it to be a team that
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, can win the championship and we can kind of go the trauma, but we also can go through losses and and have open conversations.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think it's important to ask questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then for me, just write down to my core is I really something that changed for me and my life because I have been.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, in the entrepreneurship world for over twenty years.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there has been, you know, this hustle culture.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's been this, you know, you're on the hamster wheel.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not the nine to five.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're like, you know, fully committed twenty percent and it's like no one can sustain that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, you mentioned it earlier.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bella, how sometimes you're giving, you know, eighty percent of what you have in this space.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the twenty, but that does not mean that you're not giving your all.
[SPEAKER_03]: It can mean that you're holding, you know, incredible space at your capacity that you have right now, but maybe there's only three things on the list that you're really dedicated to.
[SPEAKER_03]: And some of the other ones, you know, are sitting on the sidelines.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have made a commitment to myself that I am going to give myself the grace.
[SPEAKER_03]: me personally to be in those seasons and sometimes they're short and they're sweet and I learn so much from them and sometimes they're longer than expected but when we give ourselves the greatest what ends up happening at the finish line and then we you know move the marker to another finish line and keep going has us going has us moving through it or or to the greater success that we were you know looking for.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go ahead, baby.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I say I love that to you just how first you described listening as an action.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that because I feel like, well, we take granted that we can communicate, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But even still as a child, you need to learn how to communicate.
[SPEAKER_01]: But to listen,
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just automatically listen.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to be taught to hear things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But that the fact that it's being framed as an action means that it's actually a skill.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you actually are listening, like for any, I know for us three and then anybody else that's listening or watching who has done workshops facilitated and you're on and you're listening
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes a lot of energy to really dial in because it's not just about listening to sometimes what is verbally being said, but it's also listening to what's not being said, right, and trying to figure that out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then also bringing it back to curiosity.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that is such a superpower for for capacity.
[SPEAKER_01]: is really being able to be curious about, you know, everything, what's going on, what's happening, and we go back to, you know, Bella, you were saying about developing our communication skills.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one part of developing skills is learning, right, from, you know, taking classes or workshop, getting a coach, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then the next part of that is a pie.
[SPEAKER_01]: And anytime that we're applying something that we're learning new, or trying to scale our skills at our capacity, we're going to get messy with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we need to lean into those uncomfortable bits of conversation and allow ourselves, give ourselves a grazing space to be able to mess it up sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then sit back and take that time out and be curious, well, okay, how can I have done that better?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because again, I think all too often communication breaks down, we're real quick to look outward and blame people, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Criticize others, blame situations, to give us that sense of like, well, I'm not the one that caused this communication to go sideways.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what, maybe in some cases there's some truth to that, but there's no growth there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've got to be curious about, okay, even though I can say that my boss or someone else in my life
[SPEAKER_01]: really didn't do a good job communicating.
[SPEAKER_01]: How could I have done better?
[SPEAKER_01]: How could I have maybe created a safer space for them?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe they wouldn't have feel threatened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those types of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And allow yourself when you're working, it's not going to be perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: So allow for messiness in that and give each other that grace to make those mistakes and then own up to those mistakes and then have a conversation about that and not get hung up on the messiness.
[SPEAKER_02]: but get hung up on the growth and development that's happening in your communication and listening skills.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think light is, yeah, this open book for every one of us.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, there's so many times in life, you know, we start off with in chapter one and move into chapter two that there is growth, you know, seasons, there is seasons of sadness or challenge or letting go.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the most important thing for any person is to soften the ego and really, really,
[SPEAKER_03]: prioritize yourself and you know and and be around others that lift you up because if we all have an ego right which is usually what allows us or what propels us to whether we're having conversations to shut the conversation down if we don't like it or to decide you know whether you're having a conversation with your child and they're telling you something and
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's like, but it's my way and I'm the adult.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they're going to learn to not share as much or to shut down before they've even, you know, or to be asked and just have their, you know, a similar response.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when we soften our ego to understand that, hey, you know what, we should be open.
[SPEAKER_03]: We should be open-hearted.
[SPEAKER_03]: We should be more compassionate.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: These chapters of, you know, the book that we're all writing.
[SPEAKER_03]: because more of a, I think just life lessons and things that we get to find more joy and happiness in through the challenges, through the hardships as opposed to, I think the, the alternative.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, okay, this was so amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, Amy, for joining us for the third time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's always a pleasure to hear about all the things that you have going on and how you're showing up for yourself and the community.
[SPEAKER_02]: So where can people find you?
[SPEAKER_03]: So people can find me on my website, www.amienicalcoen.com, everything lives there so that she can experience
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'll incorporate retreats my mentorships mastermind everything is there who I am if you want to know more want to connect It's all there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we'll link all that stuff in the episode So yeah and till next time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much and Yeah, till next time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you love and appreciate you