WEBVTT 00:02.403 --> 00:05.465 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey everyone, welcome to The Christian Parenting Podcast. 00:05.585 --> 00:08.687 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Steph Thirling, and I am so glad that you're here today. 00:09.287 --> 00:13.429 [SPEAKER_01]: This is an episode that you're likely going to relate to, and I want to start off with a question. 00:14.110 --> 00:15.570 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever felt unqualified? 00:15.971 --> 00:23.815 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you're faking it until you make it, or maybe like you're supposed to do more, but you're not sure what that is, or if you're ready, I definitely have felt that. 00:23.935 --> 00:30.899 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you said yes to that, you're going to love hearing from our guest today, Mary Morans, as she shares her story of overcoming and growth. 00:31.630 --> 00:33.816 [SPEAKER_01]: Mary opens up about the struggles of self-doubt. 00:33.836 --> 00:40.193 [SPEAKER_01]: The trap we so often fall in of playing small and how fear can silence the very gifts that God has given us. 00:40.932 --> 00:47.415 [SPEAKER_01]: She offers honest encouragement and practical tools to help you take small, faithful steps towards growth and God's calling in your life. 00:48.095 --> 00:49.475 [SPEAKER_01]: Even when fear tells you to stay put. 00:50.216 --> 00:56.118 [SPEAKER_01]: All of this and more is then covered in her book underestimated, so if you love this conversation, go check that out for even more. 00:56.638 --> 01:01.300 [SPEAKER_01]: This episode is both practical and encouraging, and I think that you're really going to love it, so enjoy. 01:06.609 --> 01:08.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Mary, welcome to the Christian Parenting podcast. 01:08.871 --> 01:10.312 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, stuff, thanks so much for having me. 01:10.372 --> 01:11.913 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking forward to hanging out with you. 01:12.133 --> 01:13.974 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's going to be a great conversation. 01:13.994 --> 01:17.316 [SPEAKER_01]: So I really like to start just like jumping right in, getting to know my guests. 01:17.517 --> 01:22.520 [SPEAKER_01]: So tell us just a little about yourself and what you do and about your family and all the all the important things. 01:23.001 --> 01:33.467 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I always like to say kind of like the elevator pitch version of my story, if we're meeting for the very first time, is that I grew up in a single-wide trailer in rural West Virginia, and I like to emphasize the single-wide parts. 01:33.827 --> 01:43.913 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people can kind of picture like a really nice double-wide with a permanent foundation, and this was not that, like whatever dilapidated rundown stock photo, you know, picture in your head, you have a trailer. 01:44.933 --> 01:46.434 [SPEAKER_00]: In rural West Virginia, that's what it was. 01:46.494 --> 01:49.735 [SPEAKER_00]: If you go to thebookdirt.com, you can see the actual trailer. 01:49.775 --> 01:51.376 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the cover of my first book, Dirt. 01:51.676 --> 01:52.497 [SPEAKER_00]: My dad's a logger. 01:52.817 --> 01:57.479 [SPEAKER_00]: His dad was a logger, eight generations deep of loggers and coal miners in the West Virginia woods. 01:57.839 --> 02:03.701 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you fast forward a story, a good bit, and I end up at Yale for law school, which is quite the whiplash moment. 02:03.902 --> 02:07.243 [SPEAKER_00]: And on one hand, we think like that's not really the usual outcome. 02:07.363 --> 02:11.645 [SPEAKER_00]: We expect from a trailer in West Virginia, but on the other hand, Steph, it's also very much a 02:11.925 --> 02:16.327 [SPEAKER_00]: underdog trope, we've become really familiar with this idea of humble beginnings to the Ivy League. 02:16.607 --> 02:31.875 [SPEAKER_00]: And so in a lot of ways, both my story and then like what my story is sort of a caricature of it has come to stand for, both of those things have really kind of equipped me to write this third book, which is called underestimated at this presently simple shift to quit playing small, name the fear and move forward anyway. 02:31.895 --> 02:37.358 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a second book in the middle there called slow growth equal strong rates that's about giving up achieving career worth. 02:37.418 --> 02:39.379 [SPEAKER_00]: So if dirt is about making peace with your past, 02:39.779 --> 02:40.839 [SPEAKER_00]: give up achieving for your worth. 02:40.919 --> 02:44.101 [SPEAKER_00]: Now we move forward to quit playing small and the good work we're put here to do. 02:44.301 --> 02:45.241 [SPEAKER_01]: I love your story. 02:45.281 --> 02:46.762 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just so interesting. 02:47.162 --> 02:48.983 [SPEAKER_01]: My brother-in-law has a very similar story. 02:49.063 --> 02:52.544 [SPEAKER_01]: He is now a he lived in the desert of California. 02:52.964 --> 02:55.625 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a very successful ophthalmologist in Florida. 02:55.785 --> 03:01.888 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just really it's inspiring to hear his story about kind of those moments in his life that he was like, no, I want to do more. 03:02.088 --> 03:03.128 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to do something different. 03:03.188 --> 03:07.930 [SPEAKER_01]: And where he got his motivation and when he decided he was just going to go for it. 03:08.050 --> 03:08.551 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm 03:09.691 --> 03:11.552 [SPEAKER_01]: dive in a little bit more with you today. 03:11.572 --> 03:12.732 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love that. 03:12.752 --> 03:13.493 [SPEAKER_00]: I would just say real quick. 03:13.533 --> 03:26.518 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been telling people that this book is very much for the person who feels like they're being called up to more and like your brother-in-law who feel like they're being called up to greatness and who also simultaneously at the very same time still doubt that someone like you will ever get there. 03:26.538 --> 03:31.900 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's something in your story that both drives you to more and also makes you feel disqualified for more. 03:32.300 --> 03:34.842 [SPEAKER_00]: and those two things feel like they're constantly in tension. 03:35.002 --> 03:35.322 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 03:35.502 --> 03:52.815 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and I think the reason I was so drawn to this is that you hear the story like you or like my brother-in-law and you're like, well, I'm not like, there's nothing really limiting me that much, but I think that if there are to be a group of people that underestimate themselves, moms have got to be on the top of the list. 03:53.796 --> 04:03.023 [SPEAKER_01]: Women in general, I think underestimate those laws a lot, but then you add mom to the title, and you put yourself second, and then you begin this slow process of like, am I enough? 04:03.323 --> 04:05.484 [SPEAKER_01]: Am I supposed to do more and does anything matter? 04:05.584 --> 04:07.826 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, because you pour so much into other people. 04:07.946 --> 04:16.893 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think no matter where we grew up or where our story has gone so far, I think we can all really relate to underestimating ourselves and making ourselves feel small. 04:17.073 --> 04:20.075 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I started this job, I was like, are you sure? 04:21.596 --> 04:23.099 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you sure you want me to do this? 04:23.159 --> 04:31.470 [SPEAKER_01]: You know we all have that doubt that we feel so you talk a lot about playing small and I just let's start with like what's your definition of that like what does that mean? 04:31.851 --> 04:38.380 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think like oh, I'm so glad you asked that and I I also like what you were talking about earlier about how you instantly honed in on like we do this to ourselves 04:39.080 --> 04:41.441 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, because I'll be honest with you when I set out to write this book's death. 04:41.521 --> 04:46.064 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was going to be one hundred percent about how other people do this to us. 04:46.184 --> 04:56.789 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I have spent a lot of my life feeling like, oh, people look right through me or they, you know, I'm not the loud one in the room or the extroverted one in the room or the one who sucks all the oxygen out of the room. 04:56.849 --> 05:04.632 [SPEAKER_00]: And so in any networking cocktail hour situation, you will find me off in the corner and talking to one other person saying, tell me about all your hopes and fears. 05:04.672 --> 05:05.353 [SPEAKER_00]: How was your childhood? 05:05.893 --> 05:06.253 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 05:06.373 --> 05:07.714 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can relate to that. 05:08.259 --> 05:11.242 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, but like time after time, those people have been wrong, right? 05:11.302 --> 05:16.527 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I actually had a teacher in high school who said, if anybody's going to get out of Richmond West Virginia, it will not be you. 05:17.468 --> 05:26.017 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I sent most of my life kind of bottling that up and using it as jet fuel and there's actually a two word indictment of myself in the book of perceived slight of like 05:26.537 --> 05:30.702 [SPEAKER_00]: If there isn't an actual site, then I have to make one up in order to propel myself forward. 05:31.082 --> 05:34.626 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I start writing the book and a book will have opinions about what it wants to be. 05:35.026 --> 05:41.633 [SPEAKER_00]: And this book was like, it's going to be twenty percent that because it is a real thing that other people do this to us, but it's going to be eighty percent when we do it to ourselves. 05:41.673 --> 05:47.759 [SPEAKER_00]: And so on the cover along the top among the above the title, it says, because the person counting you out the most just might be you. 05:49.361 --> 05:54.806 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, you talk about moms and doing that to themselves and we'll probably get into this more later. 05:54.846 --> 06:02.752 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do just want to kind of set it up now that one of the things I talk about in chapter seven, all the chapters are these different faces for your puts on to keep us playing small. 06:02.972 --> 06:05.935 [SPEAKER_00]: Chapter seven is overthinking as an orange safety cone. 06:06.175 --> 06:14.162 [SPEAKER_00]: And it will use these things I call band with shifts that say until there's more time, more money, more energy, more focus, more room in the calendar. 06:14.582 --> 06:15.643 [SPEAKER_00]: We just shouldn't get started. 06:15.703 --> 06:19.888 [SPEAKER_00]: It talks to us about this elusive some day when all of those things will line up perfectly. 06:19.928 --> 06:22.070 [SPEAKER_00]: The stars will align and we'll have that day. 06:22.090 --> 06:23.552 [SPEAKER_00]: Great, exactly. 06:24.032 --> 06:27.856 [SPEAKER_00]: But we believe fear when it tells us that gosh, when the kids are in school it'll be easier. 06:27.896 --> 06:29.258 [SPEAKER_00]: When they're out of school it'll be easier. 06:29.318 --> 06:33.983 [SPEAKER_00]: When things are so crazy at work, when we don't have this trip coming up, but there are always those things. 06:34.403 --> 06:38.444 [SPEAKER_00]: And another year goes by, and the clock goes on taking in the world is worse for our absence. 06:38.664 --> 06:44.666 [SPEAKER_00]: And so when I think about this idea of playing small, that's really what it is, that those places that we have been gifted. 06:45.586 --> 06:54.728 [SPEAKER_00]: And those places that were in our sex with the story we've been given, this crosshair intersection where our empathy informs our gifts that has the power to change the world. 06:54.808 --> 06:59.950 [SPEAKER_00]: And every day there's this sort of bump bump in our spirit that says, but no, I'm not doing anything about that thing. 07:00.010 --> 07:01.490 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't go a day without thinking about 07:01.730 --> 07:06.673 [SPEAKER_00]: And we feel it and yet another day goes, you know, goes by the clock goes on taking the world as worse for our absence. 07:06.693 --> 07:15.820 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a really great powerful quote from all over window homes that says most people most people stuff are going to go to their graves with the music still inside them and played. 07:17.041 --> 07:20.363 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that should rattle our rib cages and shake us to our very core. 07:20.900 --> 07:25.042 [SPEAKER_00]: Because when I say playing small, I don't mean that you're not allowed to have a simple life. 07:25.382 --> 07:29.783 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean that you're not allowed to make an impact right in your home or right where you are, right in your community. 07:30.084 --> 07:34.265 [SPEAKER_00]: What I mean is you are hiding in plain sight from the places you know you're being called. 07:34.625 --> 07:38.267 [SPEAKER_00]: And other people are worse because you are not showing up. 07:39.167 --> 07:42.268 [SPEAKER_01]: I always just say like nobody did anything big by making themselves small. 07:43.068 --> 07:44.929 [SPEAKER_01]: And just like he said that doesn't have to be like huge. 07:44.969 --> 07:47.890 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we don't have to go and write a book or do anything crazy. 07:47.930 --> 07:52.392 [SPEAKER_01]: But like we are called to do something and by not giving ourselves enough credit. 07:52.752 --> 07:53.812 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the world is missing out. 07:54.032 --> 07:54.312 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 07:54.332 --> 07:54.992 [SPEAKER_01]: That's really hard. 07:55.012 --> 07:58.414 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a hard concept to grasp because of the fear that you talk about. 07:58.434 --> 07:59.734 [SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to dig into that a little bit. 07:59.754 --> 08:04.016 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you kind of touched on this, but one of the quotes that was like highlighted in your book. 08:04.256 --> 08:07.857 [SPEAKER_01]: He said the reason fears so good at tricking you is because it uses your own voice. 08:08.919 --> 08:13.689 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just it was like big in there and I was like yes, I just like love love love love. 08:13.709 --> 08:18.620 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like break that down a little bit more for a minute and then I have you maybe some follow questions about that 08:19.031 --> 08:19.571 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure. 08:20.112 --> 08:41.202 [SPEAKER_00]: So just as a little bit of like a background to even before we get to that point, I am an author and podcaster and speaker and I also coach people who want to do those things in about two years ago, I had a series of back to back coaching calls with my clients and Seth, it was eerie how copy and paste the scripts coming out of their mouths were really was, you know, were one of those. 08:42.643 --> 08:47.405 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, they were working on different projects, maybe a different stages of life, but they were all like, 08:47.786 --> 08:53.268 [SPEAKER_00]: copy and paste, you know, repeats, repeats, whatever, madlips, her fear coming out of their mouths. 08:53.408 --> 08:54.349 [SPEAKER_00]: And fear was winning. 08:54.709 --> 08:56.310 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the part that was making me the most mad. 08:56.510 --> 08:59.031 [SPEAKER_00]: And I found that like fear was doing that in my life as well. 08:59.071 --> 09:00.832 [SPEAKER_00]: And I felt like fear was winning in my life as well. 09:00.852 --> 09:03.253 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I hopped on Instagram and I didn't even like say anything. 09:03.313 --> 09:04.293 [SPEAKER_00]: It's recorded this video. 09:04.633 --> 09:06.714 [SPEAKER_00]: Like no introduction and I said, it's all been done. 09:06.814 --> 09:07.575 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all been done better. 09:07.635 --> 09:08.395 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all been done by somebody. 09:08.415 --> 09:09.796 [SPEAKER_00]: The world actually wants to be attention to. 09:10.196 --> 09:11.256 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't start until it's perfect. 09:11.496 --> 09:12.657 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't start until I'm perfect. 09:12.697 --> 09:13.817 [SPEAKER_00]: What if I start in a critics come? 09:13.837 --> 09:15.258 [SPEAKER_00]: What if they say who do she think she is? 09:15.518 --> 09:16.740 [SPEAKER_00]: What if I try and I fail? 09:16.900 --> 09:19.865 [SPEAKER_00]: What if I prove everyone who said I couldn't do it that they were right about me all along? 09:20.206 --> 09:21.668 [SPEAKER_00]: What if my voice doesn't really matter? 09:21.868 --> 09:22.890 [SPEAKER_00]: What if I don't really matter? 09:22.910 --> 09:24.693 [SPEAKER_00]: What if I start my cancer consistent with it? 09:25.033 --> 09:26.175 [SPEAKER_00]: What if it's already too late? 09:26.515 --> 09:27.737 [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, beer's not your friend. 09:27.898 --> 09:28.519 [SPEAKER_00]: Start anyway. 09:28.579 --> 09:29.140 [SPEAKER_00]: Start now. 09:29.380 --> 09:30.622 [SPEAKER_00]: And that became kind of the like. 09:30.922 --> 09:48.592 [SPEAKER_00]: groundwork and background to when I was writing this book these two dots connected in a way I'd never seen them connected before it's this high every writer is chasing and that is what if fear attacks creatives in particular and by that I don't mean people who paint or basket weave or whatever but people who put things into the world and call them good. 09:48.792 --> 09:51.593 [SPEAKER_00]: this creative force made in the image of a creator. 09:51.813 --> 09:56.514 [SPEAKER_00]: And what a fear text creatives in particular, because it is jealous that it itself is not creative at all. 09:56.934 --> 10:04.736 [SPEAKER_00]: Short of being given two gifts, the ability to throw its voice so it sounds like you, because if it sounds like Morgan Freeman, you could catch it every time. 10:04.756 --> 10:14.119 [SPEAKER_00]: And the ability to shapeshift to kind of put on these different masks for affectionism, procrastination, people putting in posters in terms of chapter by chapters, what we go through in the book. 10:14.139 --> 10:17.680 [SPEAKER_00]: That it's not a creative enemy, but it's a very slippery enemy. 10:18.080 --> 10:22.486 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that aspect in particular of, you know, it can sound like us. 10:22.747 --> 10:32.601 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason so many of these phases of fear, self-doubt, self-loathing, self-sabotosh, include the word self is because we actually believe we're the one saying this to ourselves. 10:32.948 --> 10:38.394 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and sometimes we are, sometimes we are, you know, I say in the book, why wouldn't fear try to sound like us it already? 10:38.454 --> 10:43.959 [SPEAKER_00]: Like when it finds us, we're already speaking some pretty terrible words to ourselves anyway, so we can kind of slip right in and detect it. 10:44.300 --> 10:49.385 [SPEAKER_00]: And I sort of build on that and I say, listen, fear's not a very creative guy, but he is a productive guy. 10:49.685 --> 10:56.747 [SPEAKER_00]: and like any good productive overachiever who has loads to go get done loads of people to go make them self-doubt and self-sabotage. 10:57.147 --> 10:58.348 [SPEAKER_00]: He's learned how to prioritize. 10:58.748 --> 11:02.189 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're already hiding in plain sight and playing small, he's gonna mostly lead you alone. 11:02.209 --> 11:05.150 [SPEAKER_00]: A little fear, maintenance mode, sprinkle it in some perfectionism. 11:05.490 --> 11:06.710 [SPEAKER_00]: Self-sabotage, you're all set. 11:07.150 --> 11:11.712 [SPEAKER_00]: But show up and actually start to use your gifts and your story to make a difference in the world. 11:11.852 --> 11:15.113 [SPEAKER_00]: And you better expect fear to show up, teeth, beard, and snarling. 11:15.333 --> 11:19.174 [SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna see that mask slip and you're gonna see just how venomous he can actually be. 11:19.614 --> 11:25.561 [SPEAKER_00]: But like a good game of rope a dope, you know, rocky forest style, we can use that against it. 11:25.661 --> 11:31.728 [SPEAKER_00]: We can pull it in just close enough to where itself out and then hit it with a knockout punch of, but you wouldn't show up. 11:32.084 --> 11:34.125 [SPEAKER_00]: unless the work I'm about to do really matters. 11:34.145 --> 11:36.426 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you know how to prioritize. 11:36.886 --> 11:37.946 [SPEAKER_00]: So you fear has just shown up. 11:38.026 --> 11:38.186 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 11:38.206 --> 11:40.527 [SPEAKER_00]: You're about to do work the matters and we flip it for this script. 11:40.867 --> 11:41.108 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 11:41.408 --> 11:43.929 [SPEAKER_00]: I must really care about what I'm actually about to put into the world. 11:44.149 --> 11:45.889 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen what you're seeing kind of reminds me? 11:45.929 --> 11:51.832 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen there's this photo of like a huge stack of books and they're all about Abraham Lincoln. 11:52.572 --> 11:52.812 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 11:53.253 --> 11:59.397 [SPEAKER_01]: And the whole point of the photo, and this just art display, essentially, is like everybody wrote a book about Abraham Lincoln in this book. 11:59.697 --> 12:02.159 [SPEAKER_01]: But they were all needed because they're all from different voices. 12:02.299 --> 12:04.341 [SPEAKER_01]: And they were all there for a reason. 12:04.361 --> 12:06.462 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think sometimes I'm going to like, well, if someone's already doing it. 12:06.603 --> 12:09.605 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like some of those those voices that you're saying. 12:10.105 --> 12:11.387 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, speaking to us. 12:11.808 --> 12:15.414 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know what I want to add to that is I think Christian women in particular do that a lot. 12:15.794 --> 12:23.046 [SPEAKER_00]: Christian women in particular I think will go if I raise my hand for this or if I reach for quote unquote more, then that's me being prideful. 12:23.630 --> 12:27.891 [SPEAKER_00]: and what if I end up making it all about myself or what if it goes to my head or what if I miss manage it? 12:28.131 --> 12:34.772 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they go, listen, it doesn't really matter if I don't step forward and do it because look all these other people are already doing the thing I want to do. 12:34.912 --> 12:36.593 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like people aren't going to be helped by it. 12:36.613 --> 12:38.573 [SPEAKER_00]: Like somebody, you know, God, can you use somebody else? 12:38.613 --> 12:40.453 [SPEAKER_00]: God doesn't need me in particular to do this. 12:40.673 --> 12:42.394 [SPEAKER_00]: And to that, I say it's not the point. 12:42.734 --> 12:48.415 [SPEAKER_00]: God prepared this work for each of us in advance on purpose to do because the work itself works on us. 12:49.055 --> 12:58.639 [SPEAKER_00]: When we raise our hand in obedience, when we step forward, when we say yes to these things that feel scary, so much of the work that we're being called to do, it's because it first and foremost changes us. 12:58.819 --> 13:01.301 [SPEAKER_00]: And then in a secondary ripple effect, it gets to change the world. 13:01.601 --> 13:05.743 [SPEAKER_00]: We miss out on everything God wants to do in us just because we think somebody else could do it better. 13:07.003 --> 13:12.628 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's talk a little bit more about flipping the script to something that we care about. 13:12.729 --> 13:16.312 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, what does that look like to name that fear and be like, okay, really care about that? 13:16.552 --> 13:16.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 13:17.052 --> 13:22.818 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, this kind of bounces ahead even into the very last chapter of the book, which is success is a slippery slope. 13:22.998 --> 13:26.821 [SPEAKER_00]: And that chapter starts off saying the underdog is a role of a lifetime. 13:27.462 --> 13:31.623 [SPEAKER_00]: And what I mean by that is that if you're not careful, you could spend your whole life playing that part. 13:32.003 --> 13:37.245 [SPEAKER_00]: And it talks about how the unlikely hero is the unmedicated darling of all the chanting masses. 13:37.445 --> 13:46.528 [SPEAKER_00]: They love us so long as we're struggling for it every single solitary step of the way as long as we are on our way up, they'll even root for us in the thirty seconds of glory when it finally all works out. 13:46.888 --> 13:51.549 [SPEAKER_00]: Q credits roll scene play the score because we're underdog people. 13:51.629 --> 13:54.290 [SPEAKER_00]: So the second we see are here, get everything they ever wanted, we're out. 13:54.550 --> 14:05.695 [SPEAKER_00]: And we sort of know that in our underdog tropes in the movies and we sort of know that about human nature that, you know, who doesn't get that kind of unqualified support, people who reach some level of success and actually keep it. 14:06.055 --> 14:09.056 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that leaders wear a target on their back because they're out front. 14:09.116 --> 14:10.957 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that and it terrifies us. 14:11.357 --> 14:23.967 [SPEAKER_00]: And so every time we start to feel ourselves getting to that breakthrough moment, pushing the boulder all the way up the mountain, we're almost to the top, like wily coyote about to get his come up and we freeze when we make eye contact with everyone watching at home. 14:24.327 --> 14:25.648 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone might actually read this book. 14:25.988 --> 14:27.530 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody might actually listen to this podcast. 14:27.550 --> 14:28.931 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody might actually come to this talk. 14:29.011 --> 14:30.352 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm giving just kidding. 14:30.372 --> 14:34.435 [SPEAKER_00]: And we blink and we lose our grip and we lose our way and the boulder rolls all the way back down the mountain. 14:34.655 --> 14:41.219 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, I think that's like, that is that feeling of it is much safer to keep starting over. 14:41.379 --> 14:44.401 [SPEAKER_00]: It's much safer to keep letting fear push me back over the ledge and play small. 14:44.701 --> 14:47.643 [SPEAKER_00]: I used to believe that the mountain was connected. 14:47.663 --> 14:53.687 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a series of steps and if you followed in just the right order and you pushed just hard enough, you would inevitably reach the top. 14:54.027 --> 15:06.512 [SPEAKER_00]: Among entrepreneurs, because I've been a full-time entrepreneur for twenty-plus years, so I coach and people who want to start businesses a lot as well, there's something called the start to significance hierarchy or the survival to significance hierarchy. 15:06.732 --> 15:11.854 [SPEAKER_00]: And it talks about the stages you go through as an entrepreneur where you start your business in the beginning and you're barely surviving. 15:11.914 --> 15:13.015 [SPEAKER_00]: You're barely making ends meet. 15:13.355 --> 15:31.352 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you make a little bit more and you start to get a little bit of stability you're covering the bills month to month and then you make a little bit more and you start to have security maybe you can even start to invest or scale or grow the business and you keep going and people start to call you a success and then inevitably than what I believe is if you just kept pushing long enough you would arrive at this place of significance. 15:31.732 --> 15:37.615 [SPEAKER_00]: And as someone who has felt like the underdog, my whole life's stuff, there's no place that I wanted to arrive more than significance. 15:37.855 --> 15:41.477 [SPEAKER_00]: And like about, I want to say three years ago, maybe two and a half. 15:41.717 --> 15:43.297 [SPEAKER_00]: I had this picture flash through my head. 15:43.337 --> 15:46.559 [SPEAKER_00]: So I have that illustrated in the book with like a bar graph made out of legos. 15:47.159 --> 15:50.441 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you zoom out, it looks like this mountain that is the running metaphor through the whole book. 15:50.881 --> 15:57.044 [SPEAKER_00]: And the picture that flash through my head is clear as anything I've ever seen before, kind of call it like a dawn draper where the coat-out carousel 15:57.784 --> 16:04.872 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, advancing slide and then it's gone, um, was that there should actually be a gap between the last two bars between success and significance. 16:04.932 --> 16:08.817 [SPEAKER_00]: There should be this final leap you have to make as you approach the top of the mountain. 16:09.157 --> 16:12.861 [SPEAKER_00]: And the name of that gap, this speed worthy, it's finished on the map. 16:13.001 --> 16:14.023 [SPEAKER_00]: Gap is called. 16:14.143 --> 16:16.005 [SPEAKER_00]: It's finally not about you anymore. 16:16.165 --> 16:17.627 [SPEAKER_00]: It finally stops being about you. 16:18.007 --> 16:26.471 [SPEAKER_00]: So all of that stuff in the beginning, talking about flipping the script, you know, our survival, our security, our stability, our success, our significance. 16:26.511 --> 16:27.551 [SPEAKER_00]: That feels like all about us. 16:27.791 --> 16:32.874 [SPEAKER_00]: But the inverse as well, our failure, our embarrassment, how we might be disappointed, how we might get our hearts broken. 16:33.234 --> 16:35.775 [SPEAKER_00]: We make all of that about us as well, who might hurt us? 16:36.095 --> 16:41.938 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we flip the script and we actually get to stick the landing when we say, I may very well get my heart broken. 16:42.258 --> 16:44.799 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason that word passion means suffering. 16:44.819 --> 16:47.220 [SPEAKER_00]: What am I willing to suffer to birth into the world? 16:47.740 --> 16:49.020 [SPEAKER_00]: I may very well be disappointed. 16:49.040 --> 16:51.541 [SPEAKER_00]: I may very well have moments of setbacks and failures. 16:51.621 --> 16:53.042 [SPEAKER_00]: I will for sure be criticized. 16:53.082 --> 16:53.862 [SPEAKER_00]: I promise you that. 16:54.222 --> 16:57.763 [SPEAKER_00]: But when I flip the script and I say and I stop saying, what might go wrong? 16:57.943 --> 17:00.304 [SPEAKER_00]: And I instead ask, yeah, but who might it help? 17:00.664 --> 17:02.005 [SPEAKER_00]: Now it starts to change everything. 17:02.085 --> 17:12.568 [SPEAKER_00]: When I wrote this book for twelve hours a day for twelve months, never once did I get up off the ground my face buried in the carpet because I might get a cold star because I might get to go on the sur that show. 17:13.008 --> 17:35.046 [SPEAKER_00]: I got up off the ground because I had a very clear picture in my head for particular avatars of people on you in real life that this book was meant for and who they represented and like how that might change those family trees and how that might change those generations that is what got me up when it got hard when passion felt like suffering so we flip the script of who might it help and then we use that as the real renewable fuel source that gets us up the moment. 17:35.406 --> 17:35.666 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 17:36.147 --> 17:45.694 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's so important, too, because when we're focusing just on ourselves and whether that's we're focusing on our fear or the failure that we're inevitably experiencing the setbacks. 17:45.714 --> 17:46.034 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 17:46.434 --> 17:50.938 [SPEAKER_01]: Just like the gold stars, I mean, you just do lose the point of what it is all about. 17:50.958 --> 17:57.203 [SPEAKER_01]: And what life is about because if we're always focused on us, that's just, it might feel good for a little bit, but it doesn't in the long run. 17:57.803 --> 17:58.223 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 17:58.504 --> 18:01.346 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of the unhappiest ways to live under it. 18:01.826 --> 18:02.467 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've tried it. 18:03.347 --> 18:05.328 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we all tried it really hard. 18:05.788 --> 18:19.431 [SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, I kind of talk about this idea of like spending your whole life trying to prove people wrong that they were wrong about you or show people how far you've come that there's no quicker way to end up this burned out hollow shell of yourself, proving people wrong becomes a powder keg. 18:19.731 --> 18:27.733 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, you can use what, you know, all that teacher said, oh, you'll not be the one to make it out of town as great jet fuel and there's an internal combustion put it moves you forward. 18:28.073 --> 18:32.374 [SPEAKER_00]: But like an internal combustion engine, you know, those are going to wear out after a while. 18:33.214 --> 18:33.414 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 18:33.434 --> 18:37.318 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not a commentary on like EVs are like, and that's not really like about the cars. 18:37.699 --> 18:45.847 [SPEAKER_00]: But my point being when you're just exploding on the inside just to get a little bit of forward ground, a little forward momentum, you can't be surprised when it leaves you this burnout hollow shell. 18:45.867 --> 18:54.215 [SPEAKER_00]: And I found myself there a bunch of different times over and over, because I kept trying to say one more, one more accolade, one more achievement, and then I'll finally belong. 18:54.415 --> 18:54.635 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:54.815 --> 18:57.896 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I feel like we always try to teach our kids that from a young age, too, right? 18:57.916 --> 19:00.897 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we're always telling our kids, like, you have to want this for yourself. 19:01.037 --> 19:03.959 [SPEAKER_01]: And you have to have a vision of what, like, what you're working for. 19:03.979 --> 19:11.221 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't just work strictly for grades or because we're telling you to, you know, like, you have to decide what you want in your reasoning for it. 19:11.301 --> 19:12.902 [SPEAKER_01]: And it will make everything so much easier. 19:12.922 --> 19:15.723 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I expect them to understand that, such a young age. 19:16.576 --> 19:17.677 [SPEAKER_01]: That's good though. 19:17.717 --> 19:19.879 [SPEAKER_00]: We're working on it, building it into them. 19:20.179 --> 19:21.240 [SPEAKER_00]: Can I show you something interesting? 19:21.340 --> 19:21.900 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure can. 19:22.041 --> 19:23.542 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of had the opposite grown up. 19:23.622 --> 19:25.023 [SPEAKER_00]: I was actually paid for my grades. 19:25.363 --> 19:27.645 [SPEAKER_00]: So if I got an A plus, I got five dollars. 19:27.885 --> 19:28.986 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it went down from there. 19:29.026 --> 19:31.528 [SPEAKER_00]: So an A was like four fifty and A minus was four dollars. 19:31.668 --> 19:38.614 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, like I got B plus and B. But if I hit, I think B minus and for sure C plus range, I had to start paying my parents. 19:39.235 --> 19:41.557 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was wildly wildly effective. 19:41.637 --> 19:43.178 [SPEAKER_00]: I got really, really good grades. 19:43.659 --> 19:47.063 [SPEAKER_00]: But it taught me that there was a cost to being anything less than perfect. 19:47.323 --> 19:48.945 [SPEAKER_00]: Anything less than a plus performance. 19:49.285 --> 19:53.791 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and that I was only as valuable or as worthy as what I could achieve. 19:53.951 --> 19:56.834 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's really beautiful what you're telling them. 19:57.034 --> 19:58.636 [SPEAKER_01]: That is so interesting. 19:58.756 --> 20:00.919 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we could just have a whole another episode. 20:02.337 --> 20:18.171 [SPEAKER_01]: that because there's no right or wrong way to parent and to like raise your kids and you got great grades and my kids don't know is get good grades you know like it's all all up and down but that's really interesting that that was effective and then uneffective at the same time. 20:18.191 --> 20:21.574 [SPEAKER_00]: All right exactly yeah I'm gonna be thinking about that for a while. 20:22.952 --> 20:23.332 [SPEAKER_00]: Me too. 20:23.593 --> 20:26.215 [SPEAKER_00]: I just spend some good time thinking about that for sure. 20:26.235 --> 20:27.536 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm sure that you have. 20:27.716 --> 20:30.798 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, there are so many other things that you talk about in this book. 20:31.019 --> 20:35.182 [SPEAKER_01]: One thing I do want to talk about a little bit is the concept of overthinking. 20:35.462 --> 20:37.864 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think that's another thing that us parents. 20:37.904 --> 20:39.545 [SPEAKER_01]: We are so good women in general. 20:39.585 --> 20:40.886 [SPEAKER_01]: We are so good at overthinking. 20:41.007 --> 20:42.388 [SPEAKER_01]: We just all the decisions I have to make. 20:42.428 --> 20:43.208 [SPEAKER_01]: And like what are the cons? 20:43.228 --> 20:44.069 [SPEAKER_01]: What are the pros? 20:44.329 --> 20:46.811 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go back and forth and talk about all the potential things. 20:46.831 --> 20:48.373 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what let's talk about overthinking? 20:48.573 --> 20:49.313 [SPEAKER_01]: Why is it draining? 20:49.493 --> 20:52.656 [SPEAKER_01]: How can we get away from doing that all of the time? 20:52.856 --> 20:56.019 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well I'll start with this that everything is exhausting. 20:56.159 --> 20:57.300 [SPEAKER_00]: No really it's science. 20:57.340 --> 20:58.381 [SPEAKER_00]: That's something I say in the book. 20:58.561 --> 21:08.330 [SPEAKER_00]: So one of the things that happens when we get stuck and we're emanating when we're sort of just catastrophizing and cycling over and over on a thinking problem is that we're trying to think our way out of a thinking problem. 21:08.610 --> 21:16.838 [SPEAKER_00]: And anybody who's had writers block you know this feeling where it's like all the existential angst in the world gets pent up behind your forehead to the point that it feels like you're trying to sneeze through your forehead. 21:17.278 --> 21:18.799 [SPEAKER_00]: in order to figure out the next sentence. 21:19.060 --> 21:22.342 [SPEAKER_00]: And as horrible as that feels, there is actual science that's happening there. 21:22.382 --> 21:27.167 [SPEAKER_00]: So what's happening is when you're in overthinking, you get stuck in the prefrontal cortex. 21:27.387 --> 21:29.709 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is the problem solving center of your brain. 21:29.809 --> 21:32.471 [SPEAKER_00]: It is the orderly, tidy, organized, color coded. 21:32.671 --> 21:36.134 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's automate and batch process everything in our lives part of your brain. 21:36.354 --> 21:40.318 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's really, really good at solving old problems with old roles. 21:40.718 --> 21:43.439 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this has always worked before, so let me use that again. 21:43.459 --> 21:45.299 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really great at automatic problems solving. 21:45.640 --> 21:53.222 [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is when you're creating or you're innovating or you're doing something you've never done before, you cannot solve new problems with old ways of thinking. 21:53.562 --> 22:02.805 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the more you try to think your way through a thinking problem, you overtax the prefrontal cortex and there's this products called glutamate that is a byproduct of the neurons firing. 22:03.205 --> 22:06.726 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you're really stuck in remination, they start to reach toxic levels. 22:07.026 --> 22:21.405 [SPEAKER_00]: And so scientists for a long time thought that your brain would switch out of the prefrontal cortex down into the limbic brain as just like they always thought it was like an excuse to go do instant gratification things that feel good and that's part of it because your brain just wants to do what feels good. 22:22.306 --> 22:38.798 [SPEAKER_00]: But scientists in twenty twenty two at Oxford actually discovered there's a much more crucial process service that that does and that's that the toxic levels are getting so high it's actually going to start interfering with brain functioning so to preserve brain functioning it switches you down into this 22:39.738 --> 22:41.759 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, it's called an amygdala hijack. 22:41.819 --> 22:47.060 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go do something that feels good immediately to give us what's called immediate mood repair. 22:47.400 --> 22:48.741 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, here's where I guess really interesting. 22:48.941 --> 22:53.822 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's something called Bayesian brain theory, which is more commonly referred to as predictive brain theory. 22:53.842 --> 22:55.323 [SPEAKER_00]: And it essentially means that your brain isn't 22:55.583 --> 22:58.784 [SPEAKER_00]: credible prediction machine before you ever start something new. 22:59.064 --> 23:02.365 [SPEAKER_00]: It knows with great accuracy whether you will actually succeed or not. 23:02.605 --> 23:03.685 [SPEAKER_00]: Take this thing to Vegas. 23:03.745 --> 23:04.785 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got those kind of odds. 23:05.105 --> 23:07.346 [SPEAKER_00]: It knows whether you're going to do well or not. 23:07.406 --> 23:12.927 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's basing that on all of these inputs and data of what has always been true and what has always worked before. 23:13.127 --> 23:23.790 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if you sit down to write your great American novel and you've never done that before and you don't have a track record of sitting through the edginess and staring at a blinking cursor, your brain goes, nope, this isn't going to work. 23:23.890 --> 23:24.930 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to succeed at this. 23:25.850 --> 23:27.731 [SPEAKER_00]: record scratch, ninety degree turn. 23:27.791 --> 23:34.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go do something we know we can succeed at like cleaning out that junk drawer or writing something on our to do list we've already done and working off. 23:34.275 --> 23:40.499 [SPEAKER_00]: If you've ever done that instead of waiting that next chapter this is your brain actually hijacking you it is it is sabotaging you. 23:40.839 --> 23:47.123 [SPEAKER_00]: But what's important to know is that the model of the Bayesian brain theory the prediction machine is constantly updating with new inputs. 23:47.483 --> 23:53.627 [SPEAKER_00]: And so in this very cool way, the more that we can sit down and do hard things, even just a small, short, hard thing. 23:53.828 --> 24:02.374 [SPEAKER_00]: And then increasingly larger, increasing new larger, it's like little drops in the piggy bank, little quarters in the piggy bank, little inputs in the machine, and the model will update. 24:02.754 --> 24:04.035 [SPEAKER_00]: You're essentially saying, look, 24:04.395 --> 24:05.817 [SPEAKER_00]: We are people who can do hard things. 24:05.857 --> 24:08.439 [SPEAKER_00]: We can sit through the edginess and your brain will go amazing. 24:08.800 --> 24:14.225 [SPEAKER_00]: Now there's a fifty-fifty chance or sixty-fifty chance and it won't immediately hijack you away to do something easier. 24:14.305 --> 24:20.312 [SPEAKER_00]: So the more we do hard things, ironically, paradoxically, the more we're than able to do hard things. 24:20.552 --> 24:24.315 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just so cool how our brains are wired to like me too. 24:24.335 --> 24:31.421 [SPEAKER_01]: More or less like protect us from the things that we're afraid of from the hard things and then set us up to do that like do those hard things. 24:31.441 --> 24:32.682 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got to some point. 24:33.483 --> 24:43.631 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, neuroplasticity, the hems law, the whole idea of rewiring the neurons that fire together, wire together, what a beautiful way that our brain was made that we kind of any day wake up and decide to change. 24:43.751 --> 24:45.993 [SPEAKER_00]: A day Ramsey gives that speech where he's like turned around. 24:46.234 --> 24:46.994 [SPEAKER_00]: Go the other direction. 24:47.034 --> 24:48.936 [SPEAKER_00]: Leave at any moment we can decide to change. 24:49.336 --> 24:53.466 [SPEAKER_00]: Change our lives, change our thinking, change what has always been true and what will be true from here on out. 24:54.449 --> 25:06.375 [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to switch out of this like overthinking and take a step and retrain my brain and work on a neuroplasticity and up like what are some just like a few practical steps that they can do to just do something small today. 25:06.635 --> 25:06.835 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 25:06.955 --> 25:08.236 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, that's it right there. 25:08.256 --> 25:11.118 [SPEAKER_00]: What you just said really truly is that they're this small idea. 25:11.498 --> 25:16.840 [SPEAKER_00]: So the subtitle is the surprisingly simple shift to quit playing spawning the fear and move forward anyway. 25:17.061 --> 25:19.622 [SPEAKER_00]: In chapter three, that's where the work of this book really begins. 25:19.742 --> 25:21.783 [SPEAKER_00]: And then right after chapter three, there's a double page 25:22.143 --> 25:23.644 [SPEAKER_00]: break out spread, called the shift. 25:23.984 --> 25:34.911 [SPEAKER_00]: And so really quick version of that is I had seen a post on social media of a shot glass and it said, it was one of these cheesy success accounts I like to hate, follow and Instagram. 25:35.051 --> 25:46.118 [SPEAKER_00]: And it said, if you think you have the capacity of a shot glass, then anytime you get a little bit more than that, you will subconsciously self sabotage until, and then I added, you can fit back into the tiny containers you think you belong in. 25:47.118 --> 25:55.621 [SPEAKER_00]: And I had seen that post and then I had Dr. Allison Cook on my podcast, the Mary Moran show and I was asking her about it and I said, how do we stop doing it if we don't even know we're doing it, if it's subconscious. 25:55.881 --> 26:06.504 [SPEAKER_00]: And we pulled up this part of her book, the best of you that said, especially for those of us who didn't grow up with a sense of stability or security if there was a sense of chaos in our childhood and the survival mode got switched to us. 26:06.884 --> 26:12.450 [SPEAKER_00]: We can continue to return to that over and over because it feels familiar and familiar equals comfortable and comfortable equals safe. 26:12.570 --> 26:14.191 [SPEAKER_00]: So in our minds, chaos equals safe. 26:14.412 --> 26:19.256 [SPEAKER_00]: But we, as the grown up in the room, can actually start to retake ourselves a sense of safety. 26:19.337 --> 26:24.482 [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, you do that by setting small, so manageable by size, building up the muscle. 26:24.822 --> 26:26.062 [SPEAKER_00]: small, but important. 26:26.162 --> 26:27.243 [SPEAKER_00]: They have to matter to you. 26:27.303 --> 26:28.663 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to actually care about them. 26:29.003 --> 26:31.504 [SPEAKER_00]: Small, but important commitments to yourself and actually keeping them. 26:31.684 --> 26:36.565 [SPEAKER_00]: She said, as you do that, you are showing yourself, Mary, that there is a grown-up in the room who can be trusted. 26:36.845 --> 26:37.665 [SPEAKER_00]: That grown-up is you. 26:37.685 --> 26:39.406 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've burst in the tears on this spot. 26:39.606 --> 26:47.328 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think so much of my life have been about blinking at that breakthrough moment because, on some level, I saw something in my stories and then in somebody's story listening, 26:47.708 --> 26:50.611 [SPEAKER_00]: taught us it wasn't safe to trust anyone, including ourselves. 26:50.771 --> 27:00.402 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, we take that into the practical, so that double-page, you know, shift is ironically impaired-oxically, we think that the opposite of playing small is to always go big. 27:00.742 --> 27:06.068 [SPEAKER_00]: Swing for the fences leap in the net will appear, and I'm a huge fan of the go big moment of how to quite a few of those in my life. 27:06.488 --> 27:11.530 [SPEAKER_00]: The problem stuff is that they always felt like something that had happened to me and not someone I was becoming. 27:11.651 --> 27:14.232 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't have a chance to kind of sink down into my very identity. 27:14.572 --> 27:17.653 [SPEAKER_00]: It's this idea that when you set a goal, you only get to celebrate on one day. 27:17.673 --> 27:19.374 [SPEAKER_00]: The day the goal actually comes true. 27:19.734 --> 27:27.318 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas when you set intentions, when every day you wake up and say, who do I have to be today in order to become the person who can eventually stay in the shoes of that goal? 27:27.798 --> 27:30.060 [SPEAKER_00]: And every day we do that is a cause for celebration. 27:30.180 --> 27:35.584 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's the kind of blanket statement, as we set small but important commitments in that area, and we actually keep them. 27:35.844 --> 27:47.032 [SPEAKER_00]: So, in imposter syndrome, for example, one of the ways we undo the belief of imposter syndrome, the magical ritual thinking of imposter syndrome, is that we have to expect to fail in order to succeed. 27:47.132 --> 27:55.899 [SPEAKER_00]: That if we were ever to get the hubris to believe we were actually going to do okay on this interview or the exam or writing this chapter, that would be our downfall. 27:56.259 --> 28:01.841 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we battle that back by walking into small situations and going, I actually think I'm going to do a kale in this. 28:02.182 --> 28:02.902 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm prepared. 28:03.022 --> 28:04.723 [SPEAKER_00]: I know my material inside and out. 28:04.783 --> 28:06.763 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been honing the craft of the interview. 28:06.783 --> 28:08.744 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to go really well. 28:08.984 --> 28:10.445 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, Steph's a really nice person. 28:10.465 --> 28:11.785 [SPEAKER_00]: I bet she's going to ask really great questions. 28:11.805 --> 28:12.926 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have a great conversation. 28:13.106 --> 28:21.111 [SPEAKER_00]: And then when we do, that's one little drop in the bucket, one little update of the model of like, look, you didn't have to beat yourself up just to get an A plus that down. 28:21.451 --> 28:24.893 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't have to rip yourself to shreds and pretend that's the most important thing about you. 28:25.353 --> 28:27.935 [SPEAKER_00]: The most interesting thing about you is how hard you are on yourself. 28:28.275 --> 28:31.917 [SPEAKER_00]: You could actually walk into a situation with some self-kindness and compassion. 28:32.258 --> 28:35.059 [SPEAKER_00]: Self-kindness is compassion, turn inward and wait. 28:35.199 --> 28:40.963 [SPEAKER_00]: You actually did better because you weren't completely exhausted from ripping yourself to shreds for hours before you hopped on. 28:41.263 --> 28:43.666 [SPEAKER_00]: Look at all this energy you had because kindness is resilience. 28:43.847 --> 28:51.276 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's one example of how we can take that blanket practice of small but important commitments and then apply it to one of the chapters which is imposter syndrome. 28:51.497 --> 28:58.686 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's so good and so important and I just feel like everyone needs to remember over and over and probably every morning every every hour. 29:01.789 --> 29:20.245 [SPEAKER_01]: So to kind of wrap up our time, we've covered a lot and you've been so encouraging already, but like do you have any final advice for a parent or just someone who's feeling small and feeling stuck in underestimated and feeling like they're called to something more, but just feeling all the things that we've talked about and just doesn't really know what to do. 29:20.565 --> 29:32.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think if there's anything I could leave people with, it would be if I could just really truly get you to be as bored with fear as you are with hearing those same excuses come out of your mouth for the fifth year in the row. 29:32.696 --> 29:41.443 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like we all know that we all know those excuses that you've been telling yourself and telling your spouse and telling your friends and telling your family and you hear it and even you or don't believe it when you say it anymore. 29:41.804 --> 29:47.929 [SPEAKER_00]: If I get you to be as bored and fed up with the lies of fear as you are with your own excuses that I think you would be set free. 29:48.109 --> 29:50.250 [SPEAKER_00]: And that stab is really truly the work of this book. 29:50.330 --> 29:56.953 [SPEAKER_00]: So one of the fun things we know about humans is that they learn best from story and really visual visceral unexpected metaphor. 29:57.273 --> 29:58.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Mustard seeds and mountains. 29:58.573 --> 29:58.813 [SPEAKER_00]: What? 29:58.933 --> 29:59.694 [SPEAKER_00]: Where did that come from? 29:59.914 --> 30:01.714 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, wild flowers and birds. 30:01.794 --> 30:02.195 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, what? 30:02.255 --> 30:03.035 [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about humans. 30:03.275 --> 30:03.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 30:03.535 --> 30:08.939 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the greatest teacher on the planet knew that humans are wired to learn from story and unexpected metaphor. 30:08.959 --> 30:12.582 [SPEAKER_00]: The unexpected parts actually kind of important because since it's unexpected, it stands out. 30:12.882 --> 30:14.563 [SPEAKER_00]: This is why Jesus taught the way that he did. 30:14.883 --> 30:27.813 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, when you think about this idea of the unexpected, there's a book called Purple Cowel from Seth Goeden, which is ten thousand brown cows on the side of the road driving through Minnesota from Kansas to Minnesota are those sort of many other. 30:28.613 --> 30:29.033 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Midwest. 30:29.053 --> 30:29.374 [SPEAKER_00]: Here we go. 30:29.574 --> 30:30.814 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to stop paying attention. 30:30.995 --> 30:33.236 [SPEAKER_00]: Your friends would think you're family would think you're lost it. 30:33.276 --> 30:35.037 [SPEAKER_00]: If you go, oh my gosh, brown cow! 30:35.397 --> 30:39.859 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you're driving on that way and you see a purple cow, you're going to pull over and take a picture of it. 30:40.360 --> 30:42.301 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to remember, you're going to tell your friends about it. 30:42.321 --> 30:43.681 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to pass that story now. 30:44.022 --> 30:50.805 [SPEAKER_00]: And so if I can talk to you about fear and really unexpected ways, there's an Edward Scissor Hands analogy about the missing handbook for life. 30:50.865 --> 30:53.787 [SPEAKER_00]: Those of us with hard stories feel like we are walking around in the world with. 30:54.187 --> 31:00.129 [SPEAKER_00]: or without all the pertinent parts, and therefore we feel like somebody else will always have more information than us, they'll be more qualified than we are. 31:00.369 --> 31:12.092 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the next time you hear fear using your own voice, and there's the slight great saying that the fish don't know the water's toxic because you're so immersed in it, that visual, visceral, unexpected metaphor cuts through it. 31:13.398 --> 31:30.667 [SPEAKER_00]: You know some of those scripts I mentioned earlier you go wait a minute wait a minute that's actually on page thirty four like wow fear you you saw her give me the handbook with all the scripts you've been using and you still didn't update your material that's really sad right and so we catch fear mid sentence we catch mid syllable and I was on a podcast. 31:30.987 --> 31:38.631 [SPEAKER_00]: with Sarah Rice called this changes everything where she said it's like the great in the Wizard of Oz, the great and powerful terrifying Oz until we pull back the curtain. 31:38.771 --> 31:40.252 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just a man seen him back there. 31:40.592 --> 31:48.116 [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, yeah, I sneak away all sales when he wants to sell us on the grift that doing nothing is somehow preferable to doing anything that would create any kind of failure at all. 31:48.536 --> 31:50.679 [SPEAKER_00]: Creating nothing is better than creating any kind of failure at all. 31:50.879 --> 32:01.832 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, if I can give you all of these really unexpected ways of remembering exactly what fear is up to, then you can catch it, make sentence, name it, all of its power wishes out of the room, and we can move forward anyway. 32:02.252 --> 32:04.315 [SPEAKER_00]: So, in short, fear is really boring. 32:04.355 --> 32:07.899 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a really, really boring liar, and I'm going to show you step-by-step throughout the chapters. 32:08.219 --> 32:09.060 [SPEAKER_00]: How and why that's true. 32:09.376 --> 32:09.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 32:09.796 --> 32:10.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Fierre is really boring. 32:10.656 --> 32:12.617 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just one of my new favorite phrases, I think. 32:13.037 --> 32:14.217 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna say it all the time to my kids. 32:14.517 --> 32:14.937 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 32:15.017 --> 32:15.377 [SPEAKER_01]: Lovely. 32:15.458 --> 32:15.858 [SPEAKER_01]: Love that. 32:15.958 --> 32:16.158 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 32:16.318 --> 32:18.618 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, tell us where we can connect with you and get your book. 32:18.938 --> 32:20.499 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just so I end up with that I'll introduce. 32:20.519 --> 32:21.219 [SPEAKER_01]: People can find you. 32:21.479 --> 32:22.099 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely. 32:22.299 --> 32:28.741 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're gonna name the fear.com, which is from that subtitle, name the fear.com, we have the whole first chapter up there for free. 32:28.761 --> 32:31.241 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's chapter one, starting over as a rolling boulder. 32:31.441 --> 32:37.283 [SPEAKER_00]: You will get a feel for my writing, which is very lyrical and intellectual at the same time, poetic and pop culture side by side. 32:38.003 --> 32:42.104 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you'll get a feel for the writing, you'll get a feel for how I'm going to set up that problem. 32:42.204 --> 32:45.145 [SPEAKER_00]: And then if you like the book, you can also order it on namethefear.com. 32:45.185 --> 32:46.745 [SPEAKER_00]: It's available anywhere books are sold. 32:47.085 --> 32:51.586 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we also have on that same website about midway down, we put together an achiever quiz. 32:51.706 --> 32:57.888 [SPEAKER_00]: There are five different achiever types, depending on your type, you play small in different ways and you need different things to get you unstuck and moving forward. 32:58.088 --> 32:59.408 [SPEAKER_00]: Takes like two minutes to take. 32:59.608 --> 33:00.788 [SPEAKER_00]: Questions are super late and easy. 33:00.848 --> 33:01.949 [SPEAKER_00]: The results are super deep. 33:01.969 --> 33:02.889 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to tell you if you are a 33:03.029 --> 33:07.030 [SPEAKER_00]: Our former, always proving other people wrong, a contortionist, our classic people pleaser. 33:07.290 --> 33:09.170 [SPEAKER_00]: We can tour it because it is easier than to be criticized. 33:09.250 --> 33:22.313 [SPEAKER_00]: A masquerade or hiding in plain sight, a tight rope blocker who needs to careless who else is clapping, but needs higher and higher death defying feats to feel the same amount of good, or the illusionist in the distance who needs all of the conditions to begin and they themselves to be perfect before they can even start. 33:22.513 --> 33:30.055 [SPEAKER_00]: That's at achieverquiz.com, or you can also find that on namethefear.com, and then it's at Mary Mary and Son Instagram, come tell me which achiever type you got. 33:30.275 --> 33:32.616 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm going to go find out what type of cheese I do it. 33:32.756 --> 33:33.397 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I won't. 33:33.457 --> 33:34.457 [SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely won't have to do this. 33:34.697 --> 33:34.897 [SPEAKER_01]: Nice. 33:35.217 --> 33:37.138 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'll get it on chance with other people can too. 33:37.499 --> 33:39.240 [SPEAKER_01]: But thank you so much for being with me today. 33:39.460 --> 33:44.202 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I truly think this is so fascinating and it's so important and I think it's going to be really helpful. 33:44.542 --> 33:45.523 [SPEAKER_01]: I really, I know you're busy. 33:45.563 --> 33:46.603 [SPEAKER_01]: So I appreciate your time. 33:46.623 --> 33:47.163 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 33:47.344 --> 33:47.924 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh. 33:47.944 --> 33:48.604 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me. 33:48.624 --> 33:49.365 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so good to meet you. 33:49.485 --> 33:49.925 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you. 33:52.560 --> 33:55.702 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for spending time with us on the Christian parenting podcast. 33:56.142 --> 34:02.546 [SPEAKER_01]: Mary's story is such a powerful reminder that our past does not disqualify us, and that fear doesn't get the final word. 34:02.866 --> 34:10.972 [SPEAKER_01]: Whether you're wrestling with self-doubt or stepping into something new, remember that God's strength is made perfect in your weakness, and he has already equipped you for the road ahead. 34:11.432 --> 34:15.194 [SPEAKER_01]: If this episode encourages you, we'd love for you to like, subscribe, and leave a review. 34:15.414 --> 34:19.517 [SPEAKER_01]: Every bit of support helps us reach more parents walking the same path of faith and growth. 34:20.413 --> 34:25.775 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope you have a wonderful week as you continue to show up for your family and pursue the calling God's place on your life. 34:26.335 --> 34:32.838 [SPEAKER_01]: May you have the courage to rise above fear, the wisdom to trust his timing and the peace to know he's with you every step of the way.