[SPEAKER_00]: The consequence podcast network.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, what's up, y'all?
[SPEAKER_02]: This is Yikura, a salt of salt and pepper, giving you my story behind the song on consequence.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about sex, baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome, listen to the story behind the song.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host Peter Chatee of Deep Cuts Media.
[SPEAKER_00]: I interview Cheryl James, aka salt.
[SPEAKER_00]: One half of the great iconic rap duo, Salt and Pepper, who are widely known as the first ladies of rap.
[SPEAKER_00]: What a year it's been for Salt and Peppa.
[SPEAKER_00]: They would just induct it into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and they're now celebrating the thirty-fifth anniversary of their classic album, Blacks Magic, which spawned the at first controversial, but then inspirational song, Let's Talk About Sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: Assign that broke the mold, open minds and conversations, and ultimately also changed lives when they adapted the song to focus on HIV and AIDS prevention, changing the lyrics to Let's Talk About AIDS.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Salt and Papas journey began when Cheryl and future Pappa, Sandra Denton, worked together at Retail Store Sears, together with other future stars who were simply pushing to make their dreams come true.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the rest, as they say, is history.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cheryl salt discusses it all the story behind how let's talk about sex was born and her musical journey all along the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a journey that may see salt and pepper back on the road as early as September but shhh don't tell anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cheryl just revealed that because well I always try to break new ground here with this show.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's push it, push it real good, and dive deep into the story behind Salton Peppa's classic song Let's Talk About Sex, which is as relevant today as it was when it was first released, thirty-five years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cheryl, it's great to see you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Cheryl, I may call you salt if if that's fine throughout the interview too, but and excited to have you want to discuss the thirty-fifth anniversary of your album, Blacks Magic with the great song.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about sex and we're going to talk about
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll talk about sex if you'd like to talk about sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: And big year for you, you were just inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which is super exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So congratulations to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Grammy Award winner, you know, where do you begin?
[SPEAKER_00]: So many great songs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Push it, breaking out in nineteen eighty seven, and that's a song that's still everybody listens to all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So before we even begin, talk about let's talk about sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: How does it feel?
[SPEAKER_00]: forty years into this journey with salt and pepper and how does it feel that forty years later your music is still as vibrant and relevant today as it was back then.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I never thought in the beginning that we would be at this point in our career.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always thought it would last for a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always thought it was going to be huge.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the first time I got on the mic, I was like, this is what I want to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to do anything else.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what I was born to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is going to be great.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is going to work.
[SPEAKER_02]: No plan B for me, you know, but then
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, forty years later, to receive all these accolades, you know, lifetime achievement award, walk a fame star, rock the roll, all the fame, like I can go on and on, and how much our music is still being streamed and being played even CDs and vinyls being purchased.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, salt and pepper have really become like, I don't know, America's sweet hearts.
[SPEAKER_02]: over the years and I would have never guessed, but I feel blessed.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still amazing to me because there is salt and there is Cheryl and Cheryl's always looking at salt like, oh, you don't girl.
[SPEAKER_02]: You did that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: So is Cheryl different than salt?
[SPEAKER_02]: a thousand percent like a joke amongst the the family, which is kidn play in her be in Kwame and everybody's Cinderella is that Peppa is Peppa all day long.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's no difference between Sandra and Peppa.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's just this fiery
[SPEAKER_02]: Crazy personality, right, bubbly person all the time, very funny, very energetic.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then salt is, you know, the performing, you know, diva, the one that's like the go get them kind of girl.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm a tech that stage and I'm gonna make you love me, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Cheryl is
[SPEAKER_02]: very introverted, like extremely introverted person.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to like talk myself into being out and about, you know, and around people, but salt, no problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't have an alter ego per se, like making monage or anything like that, but I know when it's time to perform.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'll always shock people.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just like, wow, you're so different on stage and in the studio.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, this isn't different.
[SPEAKER_00]: So did that come naturally to you just the way you described yourself and then going on to stage was that a natural transition for you, for day one where you felt comfortable and you knew you were born to do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, as a kid, I was a performer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was that kid that used to get all the cousins together and we're going to put on a play or we're going to put on a show or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was the producer and I was telling everybody what to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've always had this love for performing even though I was a super shy kid.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was kind of like a way of me not being shy and like
[SPEAKER_02]: hiding behind a persona, I guess, to be creative, because I am also a very creative person.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was my creative outlet.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not surprised that this happened to me because I'm both things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's pretty fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it probably gives a lot of hope to a lot of people who are listening to this, artists out there who may be feeling that maybe I'm not comfortable to be on stage because I'm a little bit more of an introvert.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're not the first person, the first guest that I've had who said that, where it's just, it's almost like it's freeing up to be able to express yourself in that kind of a way on stage.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and a lot of artists are like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Janet, very soft spoken, very shy person, but on stage, she's a whole, another person, you know, and I know a few artists that are like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's pretty common, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so you're widely known, just given the legacy that you were describing for yourself, that you're widely known as the first ladies of rap, which is very, very cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you were the first female rap act to have a platinum album.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's get into your journey a little bit, because you started, you had your breakout song, push it in nineteen eighty seven, but tell everybody out there a little bit about how you and Sandra Pappa
[SPEAKER_00]: Met each other, how it led to this moment where you got in the studio, you sang that song.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just give us a little bit of your musical journey.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was dating our producer, Herbie Love Bug, and we were both working at Sears Row Bug, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And Herbie was always doing his music.
[SPEAKER_02]: He actually used to be a part of a group called Super Love Ramsey.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kid from Kid and Play was in that group if I'm not mistaken.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a lot of history, so much history.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I was also going to Queensborough Community College where I met
[SPEAKER_02]: And we never went to class while I never went to class.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were playing spades by the most part in the lunch room, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, we meet, we become friends.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're like the Yang and the Yang, total opposites, but just very, very attracted to one another curious about one another.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were hiring at Sears.
[SPEAKER_02]: And pet wanted a job.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, hey, they'll hire anybody, they'll hire you.
[SPEAKER_02]: little chat.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did.
[SPEAKER_02]: They would hire literally anybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: They hired me.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, we all started working at Sears in Herbie.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a long story, but to thumb it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Herbie was starting a group.
[SPEAKER_02]: He wanted to start a women's group.
[SPEAKER_02]: a girl's group.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we just did the first song was The Show Stopper, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is the answer to Dougie Freshens.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, Rick's the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how you got your foot in a door and hip hop, especially as a woman, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Roxanne Shantay.
[SPEAKER_02]: She had answered UTFOs, Roxanne Roxanne.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she was like our example.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were really just like walking in her footsteps for the most part.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's song blew up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we did another song call.
[SPEAKER_02]: I take your man.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did a few street hits.
[SPEAKER_02]: Trump was the next song.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got our deal with next plateau records.
[SPEAKER_02]: This all, you know, started happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: But let me take it back to Sears real quick.
[SPEAKER_02]: If people don't know, working at Sears, kidn play work there, salt and pebble work there, her beloved bug and Martin Lawrence work that Sears.
[SPEAKER_02]: For the record, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: What the heck is that about at this at the same?
[SPEAKER_02]: And the same series in college park, we were all telephone solicitors.
[SPEAKER_02]: We sat in cubicles and we called people to sell them crap they didn't need.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Martin Lawrence had come from DC because he wanted to make it in New York as a comedian.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was working at the Hess gas station across the street, but then he came over to see us because they'll hire anybody like that said.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's trying jokes out on me and I didn't think he was funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I talk to kids, I'm like, it really doesn't matter, you know, if people believe in your dream, if you have enough like belief in yourself and energy, this energy behind that and we all had that drive to make it happen for ourselves and we all did.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is an amazing story, though, because to have a place like that, our retail store like that, and you had all these people come together so much talent that was
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of unknown you know that you unlocked together and it's amazing it's such a lesson for people out there too who don't know how much they have inside them if you if you hang out with the right people help
[SPEAKER_00]: give you the strength to one like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an amazing story.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's very powerful, what you just said, because it's so true.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we do the opposite a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: We hang out with people who drain our creativity and our energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then when you get what people who feed that, yeah, magic can happen, and it did, because everyone was successful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you described a little bit about what led you to the first song that was kind of the breakout song, Show Stopper, and it was the reaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the, you know, the kind of the clap back to the song that the show, which is awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so from that, you had the initial success there and you were signed to the label which led you to go into the studio and one of the first songs was push it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And push it was a B side at first, which is pretty incredible too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So tell us a little bit about that because that's long.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get into, let's talk about sex, but push it is such a classic iconic song.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to think of it as being on a B side at first.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had already shot a video, but we needed to be side.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we went into the studio just to throw something together.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did this, we did push it and Brooklyn at this guy, Fresh Gordon's house.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this little bathroom he had for a vocal booth, hot in there, oh my goodness.
[SPEAKER_02]: Me and Pepp, like we literally can't even turn around or just like in this little bathroom.
[SPEAKER_02]: And her be being the genius that he is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fresh Gordon starts playing the synthesized line.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it,
[SPEAKER_02]: me and pep did not like this song we were like this wasn't really our style what we were used to and we threw it on there we were trying to promote tramp and then there was a DJ I want to say he was from San Francisco I'm sorry I always forget his name who just flipped it over it was when it was big you know DJs that I guess it was syndicated and so it just
[SPEAKER_02]: took off on its own and you know and you know we got to make work a song right you got to like work music that doesn't happen push it mind of its own just did its own thing so we're on tour and her be called was saying y'all need to do push it we're like what is like a hit record so we do push it while we're on tour we hadn't been doing it before that the crowd goes crazy
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, oh my God, I've got to hit song.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's the biggest song type of song to date.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when you had that immediate success because you were still kind of young kids, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You were still kind of young kids, just pretty fresh out of coming out of tears.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you have this, I'm not saying immediate success, but pretty fast success.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was actually
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're right, I think immediate success.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was no struggle bust for Salt and Peppa, like, from the show stoppa to now, you know, people was still shocked, like, we could tour at any moment and do great numbers whenever we feel like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it's that has really been Salt and Peppa's journey.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like a meant to be kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as a young, you know, still a young kid, how did that immediate success change your life?
[SPEAKER_00]: And how did you react to that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's got to be a bizarre feeling where you're, I'm not saying that we're anonymous when we're, but you know what I mean, you're, you're just a, you know, somebody who's a citizen.
[SPEAKER_00]: A civilian, a civilian, and all of a sudden you have this breakout success.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's about that and how you handled that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this a part of me it feels like I was kind of just like on autopilot like almost almost like just sleep walking through the whole thing because there was so much to be done, you know, it was not a lot of time there, even really like
[SPEAKER_02]: think that seriously about it until later.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the beginning, we were working at Cedar's part time.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were going to college.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were doing shows on the weekends, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like driving to all these places.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was just like building and building and building, just really putting in that work, that practice, you know, being in the studio, doing all the things.
[SPEAKER_02]: But one day, I did start
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't, I don't even think I was aware of how huge it was because we were so in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I remember looking in the mirror one day like, well, no me, like, all over the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, this is not even just America, this is international overnight.
[SPEAKER_02]: consistent, success.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think I still completely receive it.
[SPEAKER_02]: People are always trying to get me to receive it, though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you understand?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, yeah, I'm trying, I'm trying, but I've been in it my whole life.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not easy to get it completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now let's get into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into, let's talk about sex from your nineteen ninety album, which as I said, it's celebrating a thirty-fifth anniversary, which is amazing how fast time goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that song does not go away.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's still with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: It still has its impact.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what was your state of mind going like going into the studio for studio album number three, because you, you had a media break out success that we talked about.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now it's a few years later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember how you were and what the times were like and whether they were kind of different for you or tell us a little bit about that going into the studio?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, my mindset is always just do better than the last time.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to do better than the last time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't recall there being anything specific that I had on my mind other than
[SPEAKER_02]: Getting it done, I just remember always being in a studio having to make a deadline and just getting the song done, specifically the album.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about sex was interesting because the way that the song started was
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we, I remember having the conversation how the song was going to be controversial, um, wanting the song to be overall informative, but also provocative, you know, like we knew we was starting trouble basically this conversation we had with her be.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we started the song with, I know that they didn't complete this on the radio, kind of as a challenge.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they played it on the radio.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all the controversy around it was, it's too provocative, you know, salt and pepper have young fans.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are they making songs like this?
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember a parent saying he used to be a fan until his daughter started listening to this song.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, wow, people really don't listen to lyrics.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do they?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, because
[SPEAKER_02]: If you listen to the lyrics, we're not talking about being promiscuous.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're just talking, like why can't we just talk about sex?
[SPEAKER_02]: All of the things and the bad things, the things that need to be discussed, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So the song, obviously, was a great hit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Another one of the song peppers biggest hits, which led to Peter Jennings calling us and asking us if we would change the lyrics.
[SPEAKER_02]: His daughter was listening to the song and he thought it would be great.
[SPEAKER_02]: a great campaign.
[SPEAKER_02]: If we change the lyrics and made it informative concerning HIV and AIDS, which is something we had already been involved with.
[SPEAKER_02]: The game ends health crisis.
[SPEAKER_02]: We used to do a lot of stuff for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Life beat.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did a lot of stuff for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we were also concerned about the AIDS crisis.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're informed.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was like a perfect match.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I rewrote the lyrics.
[SPEAKER_02]: And me, let's talk about AIDS and Peter Jennings used it on his special as a learning tool, which is still is in colleges and schools and sex education.
[SPEAKER_02]: People still use that song a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: And every time I turn around, I'm hearing it, of course, on television.
[SPEAKER_00]: Peter Jennings, are you talking about Peter Jennings from News?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, the journalist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the journalist from OK.
[SPEAKER_02]: He passed away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he passed away, but he was the big time anchor for I think it was ABC News back in the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't know that he had some role in that inspiring or suggesting or somehow getting that part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about AIDS when you did that public service.
[SPEAKER_00]: campaign.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's the one that asked us to do it because he was doing a whole special for teams on HIV and AIDS and they called us and asked us if we would change the lyrics and put the information because people are so ill informed even now, which is crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But back then, you know, it was a big controversy about how it gets spread and someone is so forth.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Americans are a lot of things, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's interesting how when you go to the rest of the world, there seems to be more of an openness to talking about sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of pure, a tonical stuff that's in the States still.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, your song wasn't about promiscuity.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was about just opening up a conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go back to the
[SPEAKER_00]: the first idea of that song did you have a kind of a melody or in mind first or did you first have the concept let's do something let's do something that has been done before like tell us a little bit about just that journey of that particular song like do you recall when you were together with Peppa and you were this came to all of you
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this actually came from the idea came from Herbie.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it wasn't there in his process of producing the song and the idea, but during the song, during the making of the song, there was a lot of conversation about how this would be received, how it would be perceived, you know, is it a song?
[SPEAKER_02]: Pepper song is a defeat for us.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we collectively decided that
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, be great fit.
[SPEAKER_02]: A great way to inform and open up a conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And did the three of you then work on the lyrics together?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: Herbie wrote, let's talk about sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wrote all the lyrics too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when he presented that to you, were you first, what was your initial reaction?
[SPEAKER_00]: Just you yourself to that song?
[SPEAKER_00]: Apart from the fact that I'm not sure it's a salt and pepper song, but just the subject matter and how it was presented.
[SPEAKER_02]: a little bit of a concern of how it be perceived and whether the radio would play it and how it fit into our image, you know, overall.
[SPEAKER_00]: were you surprised that the reaction that it was immediately picked up and became a big song like right off the bat?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was almost like a plan that worked, you know, challenge radio, you know, that they're not mature enough to play this song and they're gonna prove us wrong kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's basically what happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's pretty amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, like we were talking about the song's journey started that that way and where you're uncertain how it's going to be received because it is very different than anything else out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then here we are now, thirty-five years later, and it's still the conversation starter.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, one of the things
[SPEAKER_00]: And my daughter reminded me of this, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a huge music person, so we're always exchanging notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was talking to me about the movie, the great comedy-pitch perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I watched the scene to get yesterday, just in prep for this interview.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when the movie-pitch perfect has this, what they call it, a riff-off,
[SPEAKER_00]: and they're challenging each other where you have the young women against the young men and they come up with a topic and then they sing to each other and they try to it like it's a challenge to each other and so somebody comes out and says one of them says okay next category sex and
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about sex is the young guys are the ones who really rap rap that song.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how did you feel about that when you first learn that it was good to be in the movie and then when you saw the movie come on?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I didn't see pitch perfect, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you haven't seen that movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Cheryl, you got to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I haven't put it on my list.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are prominently featured.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't even keep up.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been, I've gone to the movies and me and my daughter is sitting there and there's a whole scene of somebody doing, push it or shoot or something all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just another one I got to watch.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sounds hilarious.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's really funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, and for everybody out there, if you haven't seen the movie, pitch pervaded, it's a great comedy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hilarious, but
[SPEAKER_00]: The salt and pepper song, let's talk about sex is, as I said, prominently featured in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, yeah, there are so many movies.
[SPEAKER_00]: And because it's such a part of the culture, all your songs, that they find their way in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's got to be a trip, too, when you see, you see a show and doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it happens constantly.
[SPEAKER_02]: What a man.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every father's day.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's all kinds of commercial.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think this song?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Push it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, forget about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Shoot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about sex.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it's I really, I had a meeting the other day.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're going through this lawsuit with UMG about.
[SPEAKER_02]: reverting our masters back in, you know, the conversation started getting really deep about the millions of strings.
[SPEAKER_02]: We still get every month, like, how massive our catalog is, you know, and I didn't even completely realize it until this conversation, because it was somebody like really breaking it down to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, it makes me think about how everywhere I go,
[SPEAKER_02]: movies, commercials, licensing, inquiries.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like constant for salt and pepper.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we did an amazing kind of amazing career.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's getting all tied up just in a such an iconic way.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like we've got the mall.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got the mall.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I turn this camera around, there's awards, grannies and
[SPEAKER_02]: Blacks all over the place, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And now the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's like the beautiful way to wrap up a beautiful career.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not wrapping it up, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you said at the very beginning, the demand is always there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can decide to go on the road whenever you want to and you're gonna have big crowds who are gonna be hanging out and enjoying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to see you guys at Coachella as an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be great.
[SPEAKER_02]: We haven't done Coachella yet, but yeah, that would be great.
[SPEAKER_02]: They need to do a whole nineties Coachella.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the whole Coachella is everything nineties and bring us old folks back outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, I'm an old folk.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I grew up with this music.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are so many festivals now that are of kind of celebrating different eras.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you have a lot of eighties.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you're like, you have nine D's.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then also, you know, combining them too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the idea is out there, everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Coachella, let's demand it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's demand it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all the way to Coachella.
[SPEAKER_00]: One other thing we should talk, because this is not my day job.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm literally, as we speak today, involved in the recapture of copyrights on behalf of artists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Literally today.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I'm deep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we need to talk, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we should talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm happy to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: But everybody out there, that's an inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: What special things are you doing this year for that?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if we're doing anything specific to celebrate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Me personally, also on that album, side note is expression, a song that I wrote and produced on my own.
[SPEAKER_02]: That went platinum.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first song I ever wrote and produced.
[SPEAKER_02]: completely on my own was a platinum single.
[SPEAKER_02]: So two, two, and two, and my horn.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm probably, thank you celebrating that more than anything, because you know, as an artist and also as a woman who's come up under a man, you know, her be for me, particular.
[SPEAKER_02]: I never really celebrated that before.
[SPEAKER_02]: I never really acknowledged it very much and so that means a lot to me because it was a time in my career when I was breaking away from my relationship with Harvey as well as becoming more independent as a writer and a producer and saying more of what I wanted to say we had been writing and producing
[SPEAKER_02]: before, but that was really neat, consciously making a choice that I want to do this more as an artist.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess I'm celebrating that my independence as the woman and taking control and as a writer and a producer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, good for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And do you have any shows that you would pepper going to be playing or that have planned?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I wasn't able to find any information about a tour or anything along those lines.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I actually consciously about a year and a half ago decided to come off the road for a while for my own spiritual mental physical health, you know, because we artists will run ourselves in the ground.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not doing that because I love myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're not actively touring at the moment, but I'm pretty sure we'll be touring again pretty soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to say, you know, but there are some talks about a very big exciting tour that we might be doing in September.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ah, maybe we'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody out there, let's hold to that, okay, in September.
[SPEAKER_02]: The ink's not dry yet, so I'm being a little premature, but it seems like it's gonna happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it'll be all of us.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll be all over the United States.
[SPEAKER_00]: East and West Coast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I haven't even asked you where are you today?
[SPEAKER_02]: I live in LA now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been here about four years.
[SPEAKER_02]: I actually just bought my home and came and moved in in December and then those fires broke out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow, child.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was so scared.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was one behind me at one in front of me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, Lord Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just bought this house.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm still here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank God.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's, it's awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was awful.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can use to be just everybody's been impacted, which is the entire city, you know, for the part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And LA is a great city.
[SPEAKER_00]: I spent many years in LA and I love LA.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of Malibu is gone.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, this like, hard to even fathom that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, nobody could have.
[SPEAKER_00]: But listen, on the happier note, it's great to hear that you, we may be seeing you out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you've done so many different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a bio pick about you that's been out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you were also kind of a pioneer when it came to reality TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: You had a VH one series back in, I guess, the late two thousands, you know, two thousands, seven, eight, something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just really quickly, what was that like?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did it, was that fun for you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was actually, it was not fun for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I should not tell a lie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, I'm an introvert and that was very intrusive for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was kind of like around the coming back together of Salt and Pepper.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I had taken like a
[SPEAKER_02]: year hiatus for a lot of reasons and you know there was a lot of animosity between us and so we were approached about this reality show when we were like well what's real is that you know
[SPEAKER_02]: we haven't been together in a long time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was kind of like the bringing us back together and mending the fence's kind of situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: We got a little therapy and you know, and that really kicked off us going back on the road and working together again.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: of all your moments, memorable moments, is there anything that sticks out for you as an artist that was just, you couldn't believe the moment you were in or it was so magical for you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, when in the Grammy for sure, I'm performing at the Grammys.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did this incredible medley of songs and we had boycott at the Grammys years earlier
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this is rap if fire.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's when it took.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we had boycotted the Grammys with public enemy will submit years earlier because they were not showing the rap category.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then cut to scene two to be able to receive an award and to be one of the people who kind of kicked off, you know, the
[SPEAKER_02]: The boycott was was incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you go back and look at it, we were like finished performing and then they called our names and we ran to the wrong podium and then we ran back to the other podium.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was the real, any hearing I record on a radio for the first time back in the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, my heart can race just thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how excited that was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember where you were when you first heard that on the radio?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, me and Pepp, you know, back then you could only hear hip hop on the weekends, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we had Marley Mald is DJ and New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: Herbie had given him the record and herbie was like, he said he's gonna play it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so every weekend we're tuning in and no play, we tuning in and no play.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this particular weekend me and Pepp who was in down the boulevard and Queens and then it comes on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please, please, please don't stop, is there real?
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're like,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's laying a show stopper.
[SPEAKER_02]: We went crazy, just celebrating.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pep gets out the car, literally puts it in park in the middle of Guy Brewer Boulevard, jumps out the car and goes, they're playing a song in the radio.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, you're back in the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I want to hear the song.
[SPEAKER_02]: I get the girls.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so yeah, that was the biggest probably.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that, I could only imagine what that would be like as kind of a young kid, you hear your song on the radio.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like you won ten million dollars.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what it feels like.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you know, in your mind, it's like, we're going to make big hit records.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be stars.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to make money just from that one song get in play.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what's going on in your mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it happened so yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what is it like when you, you told us a little bit about the Grammy Awards and when you perform there, when you're performing in front of all the greatest musicians from around the world, what is that like?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you get any nerves or not at all?
[SPEAKER_02]: In the beginning, oh, yeah, we used to get nerves.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I still get a little bit of nerves, but I know what I'm doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So practice makes you an experience, makes you less nervous.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in the beginning, yeah, I mean, we were so young.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were meeting people like Stevie Wonder and Whitney Houston and Prince and like all these people that we grew, Michael Jackson, like, you know, just being kind of thrusted into that
[SPEAKER_02]: being and then we're overseas and we're getting plaques and germany and we're they're giving us dinners been Austria and you know it's just like truthfully like to be really transparent it felt like I was living in somebody else's world you know what I mean I didn't really have time to be excited it was just so shocking
[SPEAKER_02]: to us.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's just such a culture shot traveling, but it was also like this is happening so fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't even catch up, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's times that I'm thinking, you know, we're getting these plaques.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have all this international success.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're celebrating us in the record companies giving us cardiac watches.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I'm still living at home with my mom and dad.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so that's going on in your mind too.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're looking around like, but we had a money yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you know the money is going someplace.
[SPEAKER_02]: Somebody getting the money.
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially I went and looked up how much a car DA watch was like, this is a top house.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll watch.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, wait.
[SPEAKER_02]: But where's the money yet?
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that came with time, of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, figuring out the business and how it works.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is so important for all artists out there is to understand the business from day one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's the hardest thing for an artist to do because we want to art.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't want to do mass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: So two wrap things up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's on your playlist right now and what artist do you do you respect today?
[SPEAKER_02]: I did the BET Awards recently.
[SPEAKER_02]: I performed what Kurt Franklin because you know I did that eight bars on stop and I got to see Leon Thomas who is doing really great right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I respect that he plays an instrument that he
[SPEAKER_02]: his music is still very musical.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think we've been losing the art of music and he's a young man who's making, he's hitting real hard right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would say him, I don't really listen to a lot of new music.
[SPEAKER_02]: I listen to a lot of seven these eighties.
[SPEAKER_02]: music like constantly, you know, kind of the two thousands of where I kind of dropped off.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm almost still shardane.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Luther Vandros and I go back to Al Green, like I'd stay in that zone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bring me peace and gospel music.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love a lot too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, it's a great zone to be in.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a waterfall zone to be in.
[SPEAKER_00]: You name so many wonderful artists out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, you, the energy that you have, but also the energy of your songs that continues to come through all of our veins.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, whenever we hear the songs, even though I've been around the block a long time, can't help moving.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you just can't help.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: We love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is we need that kind of energy, especially today, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we do all the positive energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm on my page, the only salt on IGDA, only salt.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pumping positive energy out because boy do we need it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So true, we need to be taken care of our mental, physical, and spiritual health right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to be prioritizing that because the scrolling and all the things that's going on is like making people crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, stay sane.
[SPEAKER_02]: And thank you for having me.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was Cheryl James, aka Salt, one half of iconic rap duo Salt and Peppa, sharing her story behind the first ladies of rap's empowering and inspirational song Let's Talk About Sex, a song that celebrates its thirty-fifth anniversary this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host Peter Chotty of Deep Cuts Media.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find me at DeepCutsMedia.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check out all the cool things we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you like my show, please rate it, follow it, and share it with your friends, family, and other music fans like you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also make sure to check out all the cool, the store behind this line merch, including the poster and puzzle I have in my studio in the Consequence merch store at shop.consequence.net.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as always, thanks for listening to the story behind the song.