[SPEAKER_00]: and welcome to our show.
[SPEAKER_00]: This shit no one tells you about writing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Bianca Morey and I'm joined by Carly Waters and CC Lira from PS Literary Agency.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi everybody, as you'll notice you have just Carly and CC today because
[SPEAKER_02]: I have come up with a fun new segment that I have drawn CC in to join me on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So CC and I are going to be doing a duo podcast series where CC and I solo, I guess that's duo.
[SPEAKER_02]: The two of us have our own episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll be every Monday, except for when we have our bonus episodes, those aren't going anywhere throughout the month.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're getting a lot more curly CC time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And how this came about was that I like talking to CC about a lot of things and especially publishing gossip and trends and news articles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's only so much we can fit into books with hooks.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we just thought, why not invite you guys in?
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what you're going to get from us, just behind the scenes, everything from gossip to trends, and so much more.
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's see, see, thanks for coming on this adventure with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for coming up with this great idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just love the idea that we chat all the time anyway, and we're always exchanging stories, and asking each other fun questions, and it's all very casual and fun and conversational, but also very informative, I hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we love the idea of you guys being flies on the wall and getting to listen in on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we definitely want to hear how you feel about this segment.
[SPEAKER_01]: So drop a comment and let us know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us know what you want us to talk about.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're just really interested in seeing how this more unstructured approach will go beyond guys in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's no one to go like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not structured.
[SPEAKER_02]: So watching on YouTube, C.C.
[SPEAKER_02]: is doing helicopter hands.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no way to helicopter that hands us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know if this is going to be an I'm sorry situation or your welcome situation will see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, well, and so I don't think I mentioned this yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: The title that I've come up with for this series or segment of everyone I call it our weekly episode is just shooting the shit because number one the idea was just it was a more casual conversation between the NCC and
[SPEAKER_02]: It's on brand with the shadow tells about writing, so we shoot the shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't come up with a better name for this segment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm known that came up with books with hooks and I wear that one and that worked.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if anybody has something better for CC and my conversation, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I tried to think about, like, should we incorporate the word coffee into it?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, coffee with the agents.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, nothing was really rolling off the tongue and therefore CC and Carly shoot the shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: The best we've come up with for our episode just agents just talking shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what's more.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: What could you want?
[SPEAKER_01]: Not to be confused with shit talking agents.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's not do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least not because we're nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we try to provide some structure for this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: So basically what we're going to do is off the top of the episode, we'll just kind of check in with each other about how the week is going, what's new, what's the gossip, what's the trends?
[SPEAKER_02]: Then we're going to just talk about some articles that we've read that we're kind of like trying to keep up on our own publishing news education.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we'll kind of, you know, end on any other kind of trend pieces we want to talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's kind of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's our, that's our plan.
[SPEAKER_02]: Lots of gossip, lots of trends, lots of buying the scenes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where we're at.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in terms of what I have going on this week, I'm very excited because my client Bailey Hannah is going to be a Newark for an event.
[SPEAKER_02]: She got invited to do an incredible panel at McNally Jackson.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I don't normally, you know, hop on a plane whenever a client has an event.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I haven't met Bailey here in person yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: My Canadian cowboy romance author writes the well's ranch series.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the panel is going to be incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so anyway, I had to book my ticket and hop on over.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what else are you doing since you're going to be in the city like what other fun stuff do you have planned?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so normally obviously I'm trying to pack in some editor meetings.
[SPEAKER_02]: The summer can be really hit or miss.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of people that are away.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're out of the city.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're, you know, working from another location, people traveling.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's been hard to nail down some meetings, but no problem there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm definitely having lunch with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Editor, my assistant lives in New York, so my assistant Maria and I are gonna kind of hold up in a coffee shop and kind of work away and kind of do the little co-working thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got tickets to O-Merry.
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't seen O-Merry that brought away really yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm gonna go see that, fit in some shopping, and Bailey and I are gonna get dinner.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a metadata stuff, some fun stuff, some cultural stuff, and that's my plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna have the best time, and you have to tell us all about how that super fun event goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really want to know, I also want to know what gossip is going on because I heard that you have gossip to share with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: You said, we're going to share gossip so now what's the gossip?
[SPEAKER_02]: If I didn't do the gossip, I guess I got it delivered.
[SPEAKER_02]: So literally like a half an hour before we were sitting down to record this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not going to name any names obviously because that would be totally uncool and I would never want to embarrass anybody or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I haven't heard before I sat down to record.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got an email from an editor and the name like the dear so-and-so reply was not my name.
[SPEAKER_02]: So right away, I was like, oh, this editor said email to me, that is not me.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is me.
[SPEAKER_02]: This has been for somebody else.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I start reading and I'm like, oh, this was meant for her intern or assistant.
[SPEAKER_02]: And basically, it was a reply chain.
[SPEAKER_02]: on the reply chain to my pitch, so I pitch editors, they reply, they want to read the manuscript, we go back and forth, they say they read it, send me, you know, we want to hop on a call or, you know, there's my pass.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so basically, it was a reply back to the intern or assistant who had done a readers report for the manuscript.
[SPEAKER_02]: They wrote a rejection based on the reader report and just like pasted that into the email is like a learning experience to this other person.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm like, at this point, I'm kind of like, okay, do I just like wait for them to figure out that they made the mistake about
[SPEAKER_02]: sending me the email that's on address to me do I say hey you know this obviously wasn't for me you know so I'm anyway this literally just happened before I got on this zoom this Riverside call so yeah CC what what do you do in these situations when people send you emails I mean
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, I'm just glad that this was the boss who accidentally sent it to you and not the assistant.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that would make me feel so bad for the assistant.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gossip either way and listen, gossip is gossip, but I'm just thankful that for this assistant's sake, I'm thankful that it was her boss that made the mistake and all the other way around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this has happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not in the situation you're describing to me, but I feel like if you work
[SPEAKER_01]: If you exist in our world and you deal with emails, this happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've also sent incorrect emails.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just part of being human.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would wait for them to figure it out because I think that nothing tortures people more like silence.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to torture someone?
[SPEAKER_01]: Silence.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like the idea of torturing a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be honest.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like, yeah, mixed feelings, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of like, okay, it is what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, like you said, we're all Cuban, we're all made mistakes.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have these deaf-jockey jobs and type of emails and, you know, wrong things happen all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's a reminder to all of us, you know, double-check the center, double-check, you know what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a wake-up call for us to all be the best kind of, I don't know if you digitally literate workers that we can be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so anyway, as I said, I'm trying not to name names or overexposed the situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it was just kind of like, oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to think that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of just like seeing how this sausage gets made in a way really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did I need to say that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't need to see that.
[SPEAKER_01]: This works.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, let's remain under the illusion.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's better.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, maybe I'll give you guys an update next week.
[SPEAKER_02]: If the situation's resolved, but anyway, as Susie said, what happens?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that was my gossipy thing that happened right before I hopped on this soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like also high stakes that every week I got deliver some gossip on this show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: Like my first reaction when I found out that dark romcom's returning was to go, me like he.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never been one yet, but I'll say this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like dark.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone knows this about me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like dark.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like dark comedies.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see myself liking dark romance.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to know, like, I'm super curious to read my first dark rom-com and I'm really curious to understand, I mean, A how you straddle that line, but also B how much of the danger I need to come from the love interest because
[SPEAKER_01]: That to me seems like a really interesting line to tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to do it really well and really carefully to really make sure that you're feeling all those emotions, but also that you're not like crossing the line.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, it's super interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, we should preface this with like dark romance or dark rom-coms have been around for a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were self-published, actually, classically, and then kind of picked up by larger publishers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because a couple of years ago, editors would say, I'm interested in republishing self-pub.
[SPEAKER_02]: manuscripts in the romance space but I can't go this dark or I can't go to dark or there was like a line and often they would say that like out of line book they're like that I can't do that and so it's really and what's really intrigued me as a publishing professional is that there was kind of this line if I want to say conservativeism or anything like that like a level of like what can we as big five publishers publish in a way that feels mainstream
[SPEAKER_02]: And these dark rom coms like I can read you the the trigger warnings because there's a lot of them, you know, they're incredibly dark.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is the butcher in the black bird content trigger warnings.
[SPEAKER_02]: See, see, are you ready for this?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, eyeballs and eye sockets amateur surgery skin ornaments, chainsaws, axes, knives, scalples.
[SPEAKER_02]: Accidental cannibalism, not so accidental cannibalism.
[SPEAKER_02]: Questionable use of mummified corpse, lobotomized man-servant, ill-advised use of kitchen implements, a story about the cookies and cream ice cream, detailed sex scenes, and we go through like all the kinks, references to parental neglect, and child abuse, parental loss, references to child sexual assault, not in detail.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a book about serial killers, so there's a messed up murder and chaos.
[SPEAKER_02]: like that's how dark we're going here.
[SPEAKER_01]: What does the first one mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do eyeballs need to?
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are two that I've read but you're the blackbird.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, what's happening here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But basically, like we're talking about an incredibly dark situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think what the one of the reasons I think you should read, you know, and but you're in blackbird is just an example of the rom-com versus a dark rom-man.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the rom-com
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, there's a lot of voice to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this butcher and blackbird that I'm reading, I'm not finished it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's so much like the voice in the banter and like what makes it funny, despite all the grossness and darkness.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, it's very interesting to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know our listeners, I'm sure, you know, those of you in the romance space or dark robot space are very familiar with this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you feel like we're having this conversation two to three years to late.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, but the article that we're talking about is from the romance and the phone sub-stack article called The Rise of Dark Romcoms.
[SPEAKER_02]: lights out in sociopath golden retriever boyfriends romance in the phone is by a list of Morris her her sub stack anyway I just thought you know CZ I'm curious about when when you read your first dark romp calm what you think
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm going to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when we shot next week, I'll report back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll be like, this is how I feel about the ill-advised, ill-advised use of kitchen utensils.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm just, yeah, it takes a lot to freak me out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't hear anything about babies for babies in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know, I was going to say, I know that you're very particular about animal groups.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just because of fits fiction, you don't need to make that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If a nonfiction is different, but like, yeah, I just don't need that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I think I think it's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, I'm excited to read and I'm excited to, you know, potentially take a look at the dark rom-coms and on my list, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are these on the rise?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's always the question, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: When we think about trends and how much of this is the fact that we want controlled chaos, like the world is chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, readers want that feeling of pushing boundaries in a story while still being safe because to your point, I think humor, one of the most amazing things that humor can do is humor can disarm any situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, lower the tension, but in a good way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking of Jesse Qsudantho's style for aunties.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a scene where they're literally held at gunpoint and it's so funny because of the tone and because of the writing and you're not as scared as you would have been if that book didn't have the calm element to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that that's what's behind this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if Adam curious to hear what you think, partly how much of this has to do with our unpredictable and stable messed up world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this article does a good job of pulling back, like, you know, just going back in terms of where this all began.
[SPEAKER_02]: they trace it back to fifty shades of gray in terms of like big five publishers publishing romances about kinks and it's like you know obviously it goes very dark from this is much darker in a lot of ways and then there's dexter right there's all these things where people have always had this morbid fascination with through crime or serial killers in a way that feels very like distant it's fictionalized right this isn't reality in these cases so there's a distance there
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a psychologist, but maybe we need a psychologist to come on and explain to us the dark side of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But also, just coming back to where the calm element comes into it, there's something very humanizing about the comedy piece.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because again, this could be really dark and of gory and to feel very like, is this reality?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when the calm piece comes in, and the actual romance piece comes in, it's like, that's where reality comes in.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's a very
[SPEAKER_02]: fusing genre in terms of why this works but you know obviously it was kind of tested in the self-pub waters and really took off which is again why publishers are gravitating towards this but I would say there's a huge change in the past couple years of publishers not wanting to go to like that there was a line of what's too dark and versus like where they're willing to go now is interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah I'm just grateful to the Gen Z readers inside publishing houses I'm like convinced this is like it all comes down to them
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, no, people are fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: People are good to explore these messy emotions in fiction.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's in reality that we might not want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you, Gen Z. Thank you for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, super awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am crediting this to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's just say I will keep reading butren Blackbird.
[SPEAKER_02]: CC can decide if she wants to join me in this read and we can report back on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, if you guys want to check out the article, it's the rise of dark romcoms on the romanceing the phone, sub-stack.
[SPEAKER_02]: Super interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now, a word for my sponsors.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, we're back.
[SPEAKER_02]: CC, another thing I wanted to talk about was the bestselling books of the first half of the year.
[SPEAKER_02]: I sent you over that link, which publishers weekly puts out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Was there any surprises?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to run through the list?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what did we think about the top ten bestselling books of the year so far?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, number one, the Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Imprint is Hey House and it sold one million, seven hundred and sixty one thousand, five hundred and thirty eight copies.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of copies.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, next one is fiction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sunrise on the Reapings, Suzanne Collins from Scholastic sold one point six million.
[SPEAKER_02]: So really close actually behind let them theory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then we have on X-Storm at number three, Yippeca R-O's and one point five.
[SPEAKER_01]: One point five eight.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you should say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also very close.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now there's a big jump.
[SPEAKER_02]: So those are the three.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was one point seven, one point six, one point five million units.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we have a bit of a jump at number four is dog man number thirteen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Big gym begins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dav Pilkeys, a graphic novel, series number thirteen, the dog man books, half a million right on five hundred K. And then like super impressive right after that at number five, the house made freedom McFadden, published by Grand Central, four hundred and ninety thousand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like just under half a million.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the rest of the list is, you know, follows in the four hundred thousand.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's so, so many copies.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, so this is interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, C.C.
[SPEAKER_02]: read at number three on extorm Deluxe edition.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, it's yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Number six on extorm regular edition Rebecca Yaros.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was four hundred fifty thousand copies.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you can kind of add that to the on extorm numbers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that actually, if you combine those two would actually top let them theory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so basically like if you're Rebecca Yara's, you're counting your money right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And good for you, Rebecca.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a topic habits after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're hundred and thirty nine thousand.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's the second non-fiction on the list, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So the rest has been fiction.
[SPEAKER_02]: The next is just a classic.
[SPEAKER_02]: This one, I feel like it's always on the list.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all the places you'll go, Dr. Sue's, four hundred thirty six thousand copies.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we have fourth wing, because once again, Rebecca, Rebecca, hi.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's chat, for a hundred and thirty-three thousand.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, and then the last is another freedomic fadden.
[SPEAKER_02]: Number ten is the crash by freedom.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that one sold a four hundred seventeen thousand units.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of books were sold the first half of the year.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of books.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm surprised by the fact that
[SPEAKER_01]: The deluxe edition did so well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it shouldn't be just because fans are so loyal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you really, really love something, when like that devotion becomes like obsession in a good way, you want to get the deluxe edition, you want to get like all the merchandise like you want to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've just, I'll be honest, I've never bought a deluxe edition of anything ever in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not
[SPEAKER_01]: me like I like the story so much it's less about the packaging so I still get surprised but I shouldn't because I logically know what a big deal this is like do you are you like a deluxe edition fan early no I'm not but I've been following the kind of trends around
[SPEAKER_02]: Deluxe editions kind of not super closely but interestingly to think like okay, what's going on here?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are they making these part of it?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think comes to the Taylor Swift theory of it all which is if you put out four different cover versions of Midnight's people are gonna you know super fans are gonna buy all four and then they're gonna collect them and then it's like a way to show your loyalty to the brand or the person or the pop culture icon or the artist you know what I'm trying to say?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a way to kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: have that, and obviously it's a lot of money to buy all these different units, but some people feel like, oh, if you're a super fan, then you buy this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think part of it is that kind of Taylor Swift theory, but all hashing in on the success.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of it I also think is, you know, formats are always going to do better in different markets.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the deluxe edition, again, is for the super fans.
[SPEAKER_02]: the hardcover version or paperback version is for it could be for library markets or the targets or you know trying to say like so there is always a reason why certain formats do better in certain markets but it's very obvious that a deluxe edition is for the super fans because obviously the deluxe edition was at number three when the regular edition was at number six
[SPEAKER_02]: And the deluxe edition outperformed by two to three times, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So quite a point of it of difference there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I bought the ebook just because I wanted to get it on my Kindle right away, and yet it's taken to the summer from you to actually read it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't necessarily take it the auto download on my Kindle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Any other surprise is there?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't think we need to rehash kind of let them theory.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot has been said about that, but that's obviously an extraordinary number of sales.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I feel like, none of the titles were surprising because like, you know, we know these do well, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we, we have a sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's interesting to share numbers.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of pop up publishing doesn't come with like statistics and just like having a sense of that, having a sense of the like first half top ten best sellers of the year so far, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're in July, recording this in July.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I find it, I find it really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I wanted to give you as a snapshot of just some numbers.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always nice to see with the numbers actually look like there.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, CC.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I sent you a link to an Instagram post.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really like this account.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's called Join Girls Club.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Girls Club is a brand that's basically, it's an incredible influencer and marketing.
[SPEAKER_02]: account anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I asked CC to go to the slide that says influence has completely changed.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I want to talk a little bit about how CC and I approach our own socials.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we also coach authors based on how we approach socials, how publishers talk about socials.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is super interesting to just talk about in the larger scheme of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because CC and I don't really consider ourselves influencers.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we more consider ourselves, I don't want to speak for CC.
[SPEAKER_02]: I consider myself a great thought leader.
[SPEAKER_02]: More of a thought leader than influencer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have never done SpawnCon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Firstly, I don't know who wants to sponsor me.
[SPEAKER_02]: But nobody has approached me for SpawnCon.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I consider myself more of a thought leader.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I found this really interesting because it has kind of like the old way of socials in the new way of socials.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll read you guys the old way.
[SPEAKER_02]: The old way says,
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect lifestyle content, aesthetic appeal over value, flexing luxury, curated moments.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the new way to approach social media is real knowledge, how to intuitorials, practical skills and expertise and authenticity.
[SPEAKER_02]: It says people are gravitating towards creators with genuine expertise, real world experience, and truly helpful content rather than those flaunting their lifestyle.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like this is not new information by any means.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like the way that they kind of put this in a little bit of a chart.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I've been actually thinking a lot about with my own socials, how just to make it very clear, it wasn't written by AI.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there's so much now that you can just put it in a chat, GPT, or Gemini.
[SPEAKER_02]: What would an agent say about this?
[SPEAKER_02]: What would a literature agent do in this situation?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's really important to first do more reals or do more things like this where we actually talk about
[SPEAKER_02]: things based on our actual experience and not something that people, you know, need to find on the internet.
[SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, because everything changed, I guess, for UCC, but how you approach socials or how you create content.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been trying to be more intentional, like social media does not come naturally to me at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if anyone had told me that I would be so active on social media, even a few years ago, I would have been like, you know, sir, you are a correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is kind of fun because it means it, you know, any if I can do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Believe me, anyone can.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for me, I've been trying to be more intentional.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm big on like being organic when it comes to things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that like
[SPEAKER_01]: Just heavily curated stuff doesn't work for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It works for other people and that's super awesome for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, I'm trying to like keep that feel and keep the fact that I'm gonna talk about things that I like to talk about and things that I find to be useful.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been trying to be more mindful of just how much the algorithm will influence who gets to see your social media page.
[SPEAKER_01]: Part of social media is definitely educational for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Part of it is also like a calling card.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, like if anyone is looking for an agent and they see my presence and they go, oh, I kind of like that, that woman's energy, I'm gonna, I'm gonna query her, like that's a win for me, just being very honest here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's possible that the reverse would happen, but then they wouldn't like my energy anyway, so like better to know now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like if you like me, like me, if you don't, like I can't change who I am, but I've been trying to just the conscious of the algorithm.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even things like,
[SPEAKER_01]: the other day posted like I intentionally created a real around the hook you look happy are you look a lot happier because everyone's been doing that one right so and I feel like the algorithm will push it and I don't know if that's actually like just an impression or not but like when I follow these hooks I usually get more eyeballs and more eyeballs could be more potential clients down the line assuming people like but they see and so it's
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a part of being a business these days.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that there are authors who say, well, I don't want to be on social media and that's okay because you get to decide ultimately what you want, but you are consciously choosing not to be a part of something that most people are for business purposes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you just have to have that kind of mentality.
[SPEAKER_01]: So things have changed, things have definitely changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been trying to be more mindful of trying to be more
[SPEAKER_01]: conscientious, and it hasn't gotten easier.
[SPEAKER_01]: People think it has.
[SPEAKER_01]: People have gone, oh, we found your group.
[SPEAKER_01]: It hasn't gotten easier at all, but it hasn't gotten more fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and also the bigger following gets the more your in conversation with other people, which I find very validating.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because when you started on socials, you're like, I am literally talking to no one.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you've seen those things where it's like, this is what a room of one person looks like.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what a room of ten people looks like.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what a room of a hundred people looks like.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what a thousand.
[SPEAKER_02]: hundred thousand you're like whoa like we actually do talk to a lot of people through this platform and it always blows my mind when I'm you know recognized and then public or like for example everybody that came up to Bianca's event like those are times where kind of blows my mind where the fact that I know there are like tens of thousands of people that will probably listen to this episode like that type of stuff kind of blows my mind and such a
[SPEAKER_02]: wonderful way that the work that we're doing gets to be reached by so many people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I said, and I totally started all of this in terms of my own socials with the mentality of I'm going to be out there telling people who I am, what am I about sharing my expertise?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you like this energy?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's reciprocal and this is kind of the vibe you're going to get from working with me and it served me really well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, and here we are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think that others can find agents on social media, but they can also find other authors and the community piece is just the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I will say, like one of my top favorite things to hear on social media, whether because they get tagged on the post or because they get a DM, it's when people tell me
[SPEAKER_01]: I made this best friend because of your podcast or I made this best friend because of a course I told a course by you and so I think that's really refreshing and validating and it's just like good news out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like we need more good news because obviously and so it's just it's just fun to see these connections being made.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not something that we intentionally organize.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have the capacity for that but it happens organically and that's kind of cool to see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, I would I see influencers out there that are just like getting made fun of in their feeds or like getting dumped on or get, I'm like, I don't know if I could have skin to be like an actual influencer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, yeah, I'm very much a little bubble.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel super grateful for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I also, I very much, I block people, you know, if they're rude on my socials, I block people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't tend to delete comments because you know, people take screenshots of that and it is what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, when you can see that comment and make their own opinion about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I definitely will block people to being rude.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're coming into my house talking to me like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, like listen, it's...
[SPEAKER_01]: No one deserves to be spoken to in a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like really rude or potentially abusive, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I've definitely blocked people too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will also say to anyone who's listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, love getting comments, love getting DMs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please do not pitch me DMs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm only saying this because even though I say this quite often when I post like manuscript wish lists, I sometimes do get DMs that are like, hey, I have this novel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you be interested?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do not respond at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like even if it sounds really cool and interesting because I have a policy like we all have a policy that like I to keep my sanity and also to be fair to follow you know policy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to receive queries via the query email that anyone has access to and you and can email me there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please do if you're interested.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's not, you know, it's not a situation where I have anything against you specifically or your message.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really just like, this is to keep me saying, you want me sane.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you do not want me using my mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I totally agree for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the sanity piece.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I cannot, I get emails and DMs from so many directions.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I need a specific channel to think like that is where that's coming into.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, but we would love to get DMs about what you thought of this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is our inaugural Carly and CC shoot in the shit episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: We hope you will get more gossip, more trends, more behind the scenes stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have an idea about a title, that is better than going to see, shoot the shit or just shoot the shit, shooting the shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're very much open to it, but we appreciate you guys tuning in.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, of course, give us some ideas about what you want to hear in the next episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think some things that are on my list receipts, you know, to talk about, I do want to do a deep dive on like a bigger AI episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just not something I think we can fit in with like a smaller piece of a segment.
[SPEAKER_02]: It requires us to kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: Get you guys up to date on where some of the legislation is, where some of the lawsuits are, and CC- and I need to spend a bit more time digging into that just so we are, you know, reporting on that in a way that feels really good to us.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do want to do a deeper deep dive on AI for you guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: CC is running the else you want to make sure we're covering through these guys in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just curious to hear what other gossip you're gonna have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like seriously.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm sure I am sure I will come up with some intelligent topics.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll do a little brain stormy know how analytical I am.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want the gossip.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here for the gossip.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thanks to DMS about what you guys think of dark romance.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you read but you're in the black bird?
[SPEAKER_02]: better titles for this segment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything else that comes to mind?
[SPEAKER_02]: We're totally open to it and we're just looking forward to engaging with you guys in a different slightly different format and we'll be back next week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Carly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye!
[SPEAKER_02]: I remind her that this is an unscripted program in our conversations, have been edited and condensed and is not a full picture of our feedback or conversation directly with each author.
[SPEAKER_02]: As always, refer back to our written notes for the full-sum picture.
[SPEAKER_02]: Carly Waters in CC Lera are agents at PS Literary Agency, but their work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency and the views expressed by Carly and CC on this podcast are solely that of them as podcasts go host and do not necessarily reflect the views of opinions, policies, or position of PS Literary Agency.
[SPEAKER_02]: Reminder, but all the ways that you can support us as a show, rate us five stars on Apple Podcast, tell your writing friends about us.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You can find it at the shitaboutwriting.substack.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the shitaboutwriting.substack.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's it for today's episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you'll join us for next week's show.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the meantime, keep at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember, it just takes one yes.