[SPEAKER_01]: This episode of True's Table is brought to you by our NAACP Image Award-nominated book, True's Table, Black Women's Musings on Life, Love, and Liberation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Brothers, y'all all right?
[SPEAKER_02]: If this is your first time at truth's table, welcome to the table.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you've been sitting at the table with us all these years.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are so grateful that you have been listening to us through these years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Now pull up a chair and have a seat at the table with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey y'all, welcome to truth's table.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mid-wise, a culture for police to choose.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a community, and I'm Pristina.
[SPEAKER_03]: This table is the Bible Aquaman informed black woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: So welcome to the table, see how you're doing there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm doing well.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know?
[SPEAKER_03]: How are you today?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm good, because I'm excited about the topic on the table.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we contain multitudes.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can talk about different things.
[SPEAKER_03]: We do, we're trying to be consistent.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey y'all, it's time to see you for a male bag episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: But huge and charms.
[SPEAKER_00]: And times never happen when we say that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sometimes they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel like I'm ever here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just sometimes they do.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's our amazing producers.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, hello.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it is a mail back episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is when y'all send this questions about yeah questions that you have for us.
[SPEAKER_03]: You like for us in the answer.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so if you're a black woman, a part of the Facebook distribution group, then you kind of chance to share some questions that you had with us in that group.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we will be answering some of those questions, of course not.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, because there are actually a lot of questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we're going to do our best.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: To answer them.
[SPEAKER_03]: So shall I go first?
[SPEAKER_03]: Want to get it going?
[SPEAKER_03]: Just get the party started.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dance.
[SPEAKER_03]: What could it be?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's, I don't know if y'all have already talked about this book.
[SPEAKER_03]: How have y'all been staying staying?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's an assumption.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a big assumption.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's also five, is anybody?
[SPEAKER_03]: Subjectives, wait, carry out.
[SPEAKER_03]: How have you all been staying safe with the daily day news?
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a new great word about gestures.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then she goes, I love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she puts little parentheses gestures.
[SPEAKER_03]: At the ten alarm fire, we've been dealing with for the past month.
[SPEAKER_03]: I see you, sis.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hear you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I question.
[SPEAKER_03]: How have y'all been staying saying with the daily deluge of news for the past month?
[SPEAKER_03]: One out two months, I guess now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna get into the doctor for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that what I'm gonna answer to, but geez.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, that question implies.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is an assumption concept.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's overwhelming and that's, we would not be well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: I, so what I would tell my students is I would tell them to watch C-span.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was a C-span watcher because I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say that even C-span is still facing pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm taking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just to be clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I do like about C-span and still do is that you can hear people in their own words and I'm always like, not at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: What did this person?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's hear what you said.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's hear your whole talking point, your speech, your analysis, whatever, let's see what's happening with speeches in Congress.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I have not watched C-SPAN in a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I definitely don't turn on my TV and put on like one of the major news stations, or for that matter, I don't want to talk about a ton of local news, but I catch some of it because I live with local news washers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's important, somebody in the house knows these don't have local local news.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the way that I get my news is through my group chats.
[SPEAKER_03]: Tip of the news, Birkin News.
[SPEAKER_03]: You said somebody in the chat with a nickname, Breaking News, Birkin News.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, she's here.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you're not the other one.
[SPEAKER_03]: You may not even be better.
[SPEAKER_03]: You may not even be in the lead.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it's fluctuating.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you are coming back with more of engines.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like for a first, you were like, I ain't talking about this ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're like, did you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you
[SPEAKER_00]: It was bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is how I'm usually getting bits and pieces of breaking news.
[SPEAKER_00]: That usually is something really wacky that's happening literally in the White House and some commentary around it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I get a lot of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I had planned for myself is that I would have a conscious, again, this mindfulness news watching time once a week.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, once a week as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I had planned for myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: That I would literally sit down for an hour of like news updates, national local global, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what I had hoped to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my people in my chat, you know, group channels.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then my husband has this whole thing, a rule that he created for himself that is now been imposed in my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got a twenty minute political conversation max a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And twenty minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he'll be like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm at twenty minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can, you know, whatever, even if he's a stroke, even as literally, he's the one that started the conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but I think that's an attempt for him to say, like, I want some boundaries around conversation and, you know, whatever, but that is what that looks like for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: How about you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you know, you're a newswater?
[SPEAKER_00]: I am, I'm a newsman.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am the daughter of a Nigerian dad who was very much.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, my grandmother then played the watch and he was, yeah, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've been socializing to this.
[SPEAKER_03]: What is this?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a channel down.
[SPEAKER_03]: I am a newswater.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now there's much anymore though, because propaganda is a newswater.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a new day.
[SPEAKER_03]: And stress.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's just a lot of news.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I've had to be more creative about how I get my new sources.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it feels different, which feels a little uncomfortable, you know, it's a little stretching, having to
[SPEAKER_03]: depend on independent journalists.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not trying to cast the spurses against them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just not used to.
[SPEAKER_03]: God bloody my news that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: And thank God for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, so I'm following independent journalists.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm watching following historians.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, hello, please protect all of these true tellers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Literally, we pray for these people who protect them seriously because they are doing the work of the Lord right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't really have like a rule per se on like how much news I'm going to consume per day to be honest, I probably should, but but I use it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's a truth of the matter.
[SPEAKER_03]: Probably around this time that you, I probably would have already taken a social media break, but because things are changing so fast.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_03]: So rapidly, I just feel like I actually can, you know, steal away in the ways that I probably would have because I'm like, oh my goodness, I got a really fun, what's happening?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I am trying to stay abreast of what's going on, but also not letting trying to not let it overwhelm me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I take breaks sometimes if there's some stuff that even comes in our group chat, I'm like, I'm not going to watch that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like there's just, I just, I know you have to know yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And their levels, there's different types
[SPEAKER_00]: types of news stories for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's different, yeah, there's love, different levels.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's images of people being harmed.
[SPEAKER_03]: For instance, there was a video circulating of our beloved and precious, you know, undocumented immigrants, you know, being mistreated.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me just say that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: And and separated.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm not watching.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was making the rounds and things like that, but I'm not going to watch that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just can't do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I have to know yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: So for me, I'm trying to be strategic about what I do take in and what I watch.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do want to know the breaking news.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to know some of the latest wicked deeds that those just don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: For example, I know that when we hit the weekend, I feel a little bit of anxiety and we can cause I know that they do their dirtiest deeds on the weekend.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that's usually when, you know, they do a whole lot of things under the cover of darkness, and so I'm like, oh god, where are these people doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I would as a weekend.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, let me find out.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so I try to, I try to take it in, but what also helps me to stay sane is making sure I have my times of just like, just just watching my, my silly reality shows.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just, you know, just I could turn my brain off and not to think about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll spend time with family.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not too far from me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Go see family.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's helpful for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh means and real is very helpful for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a spam Christina with a hundred reals.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a funny though.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so that's how I stay safe and prayer is huge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Prayer is huge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got to be interceding spiritually.
[SPEAKER_03]: That also helps me to not be bitter and resentful toward the eight percent and all the authors, you know, that voted for this wicked man.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so that helps me.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my commitment is to pray.
[SPEAKER_03]: Pray for those who set yourselves up as you enemy.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is my spiritual discipline to help stay sane.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if I need more than, well, then I do need to get into trauma therapy, actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are my list of things to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's if, you know, I don't know if Hope's healthcare still holds up, will see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Day by day.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I'm not dead.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I mean, I think, yeah, consciously trying to manage the new sources and how much comes in, I think is why, although stuff is kind of sneakce up on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, bam, here I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I, I also feel some degree of obligation, not necessarily to ever watch anything, like, because what I've taken in that way, I think we have to be really wise about like watching videos of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tend to prefer a written accounts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I don't have to be convinced of your noodles.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do try to take that kind of that kind of information in a reading context.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I also feel some degree of burden.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't mean it in like a resentful way.
[SPEAKER_00]: to have some awareness of what's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're talking about layoffs for federal employees, when you're talking about what's happening with undocumented people, or USA, these are researchers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have a connection to people in those
[SPEAKER_00]: those spaces, especially like the text right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, especially like researchers in federal, you know, my parents work for HUD when I was a kid, you know, I mean, I grew up in HUD.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in the DMV, I mean, that is I feel a sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel I don't feel like I can just
[SPEAKER_00]: disappear from information.
[SPEAKER_00]: One would be impossible too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think it helps to inform the way that I need to pray and how I need to be empathetic towards other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because every one of those new stories about, if you talk about Medicaid or Medicare cuts, if that moves through the Senate,
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about the fact that close to forty percent of children in the United States get our own Medicaid.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just I feel like I got a I got a I got a knee I got a no about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a no about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I do have that sense of obligation to a kept up my head and the same even if you want to.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard to keep your head and the same.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really difficult because you got to be wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: I started to tell where you're receiving it and where you're receiving it from at your point.
[SPEAKER_03]: and trying to expel the toxicity from everybody.
[SPEAKER_03]: So working out is really for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, sure me.
[SPEAKER_03]: My gosh.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's very, very important for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is also very helpful.
[SPEAKER_03]: Line dancing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, very, very important.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so lots of things that we do.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you got the next mail bag question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's see what else we got here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you to Morgan for that last one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're going to do Julie's question.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the first one up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Julie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Julia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Correction.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me help help me to read Julie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you do an episode on managing relationships and religious circles and then the response from you was, can you explain that further?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because any of you have everything that's happening here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the response she says, I have been wondering how to teach others about skills like boundary setting in the church environment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the spill that would never be boundary problems there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Boundaries not being evil, but necessary and also communication across generational and also with respect for others boundaries.
[SPEAKER_00]: And most of all, how to not cross the line between concern, prayer and gossiping.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually a lot of questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't you pick one?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know it's funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it depends on where you are within the church, whether you're a member or if you're a leader, you know, I think for pastor in the past or I think I look a lot different, you know, I've been in church leadership, but I've never, if I can recall, I've never felt like I've had
[SPEAKER_03]: Issue issues with boundaries with other states in the terms for me personally not have that that issue I would imagine be different if I were pastor Or on in them on the ministerial staff I wouldn't imagine and I assume that that would be harder.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did have unfortunately the experience of a stalker
[SPEAKER_03]: coming to my church many years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, obviously, that's a boundary violation.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, um, and they had a member of the church.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were not okay, but they came into the space.
[SPEAKER_00]: I came into the space.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would have been an interesting family of a member.
[SPEAKER_00]: Terrifying.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're not that was crazy to have itself, but yeah, what was
[SPEAKER_03]: To me was a problem in an oversight there.
[SPEAKER_03]: A church was just like the lack of protection there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, when?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, so you'll just let the strange person that doesn't even fit within the demographics of this church all are welcome.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying it, but this person is clearly sticking out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you allow this person to come in and to inquire to ask about me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not even protected or checked and cover.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's wild.
[SPEAKER_03]: That church was wildly unsafe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at my conversation one day about church security.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have, hey, they come on up here and ministry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's important.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but that church was unsafe on some levels.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But so there's that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if I think about the question about the difference between genuine concern and maybe gossip, you know, when praying, I think that's a good question.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think that, I believe that curiosity is a love language.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that for us to do life on life, you know, and really, you know, do life together.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: We do have to know about the interior lives.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to be curious, you know, about one another.
[SPEAKER_03]: You mean, people do, isn't this?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what it means, you know, it doesn't mean to walk in these shoes.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so very reasonable that I'm just kidding.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it doesn't mean to walk in your shoes.
[SPEAKER_03]: What does it mean to you live your life?
[SPEAKER_03]: Look like, you know, what are the burdens, what are the joys, what are the triumphs, the challenges, the, you know, all of these things, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and you know that by walking on another
[SPEAKER_03]: in a locking with one another, asking questions being curious.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just being just being in each other space, vice versa.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think there's a curiosity there.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a genuine desire to get to know someone, rather than a fact-finding mission.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And a folk-finding mission.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: How can I say poking, prodding, peering into people's lives, apart from relationship?
[SPEAKER_03]: There can be this imbalance of self-disclosure and vulnerability, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like, wait a minute, you're very curious about this very, whatever, this part of my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know much about your own and you haven't shared much about me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's when we start to slide into the land of nosiness and gossip, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Where somebody just wants to take that information and disseminate that information to whoever, whether it's under the guise of a prayer or not, or just straight up calling somebody else to tell them about your business.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think relationship is the
[SPEAKER_03]: true intimate relationship with, you know, with people makes that difference a bit different.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not to say the people that are intimately connected to you don't guys about you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope they don't, but I would hope they there be a less the likelihood would be much smaller.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will hope then somebody that you're much more arms length apart with not quite as close to.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think there's a mutual curiosity, a mutual vulnerability where you can really share your lives together and walk together and in agreement hopefully versus somebody who's more distant and just wanting to be all up in your business and you can't have the nothing.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, or you ask them and they, but they don't really disclose, you know, so.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, either way, how would you answer those questions?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think that's a solid response.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think I would add up slaves for grace for people's different communications styles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: People, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: People who their way of getting to know people feels like twenty questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there are other people who have a way of getting to know people that are just more like presence oriented, like being versus doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: style.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I think people are socialized a little bit differently around that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, either people who are like, I'm getting to know you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they're getting to know you is like question question question question question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of like presence.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, I just think he'd have to be my, give grace to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to be mindful of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't figure out what your style might be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, there may be some anxiety too, some social anxiety.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's so much, there's so much as happening with the deficits and knowing how to connect with other people, uh, feeling safe enough to show up as yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all kind of, I think this going off with people right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I think,
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say this philosophically, I think people have to figure out what is what is my relationship to my church?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do we owe each other in terms of disclosure and awareness of my life?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was thinking about this the other day because I had a person who grew up when I was a very church, like in church culture, like connected to family and church leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've heard that.
[SPEAKER_00]: church person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they sent me a text message in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, like, hey, Dr. Christina, I'm going to be away for X amount of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just wanted to make you aware.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just blessing to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please, you know, pray for me while I'm gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I'm going to be doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'll be back in service.
[SPEAKER_00]: XY was like, there's no policy.
[SPEAKER_00]: No rule whatsoever about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could think of another kind of a more mature older couple in our church than whenever they're gone, like when they're out of town or they're going to be at a wedding, a funeral, you name it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, oh, you're not gonna see me next week at, you know, our churches in huge, but they're doing that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but they're like, I'm gonna be gonna open.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am a church girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a requirement.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, I don't know how many people communicate in that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one that would never said that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then of course, there are other people who, when I tell you, like, I mean, like, they're like, and I've been gone for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you sick when you go?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so all of that is saying is that that speaks more to the fact that that people have different philosophies.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what they ought to disclose within the contents of the church, you know, and there is there is liberty.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you're going to be gone a long time, it is nice to let somebody know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, it's also painful to be a go to be gone a long time for whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: And nobody notices.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think about the people who say like I'm leaving as the kind of people that must believe it is relevant to you that I'm not here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it should be like, and obviously churches can be, you know, from a hundred to ten thousand people, you know, the terms of the size of the church, so people do this in different ways, but we want to feel like our, our presence should matter and people who are in church leadership have to give an account
[SPEAKER_00]: for who they are shepherding, in some way, shape or form.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This looks different on the tradition, the size of the church, you name it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it has to be some level of connection to people's lives to be able to have a sense of, do you feel like you're growing in grace?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel like, you know, do you feel like the gospel is a very real and powerful part of your life?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there areas that we need to pray for you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there benevolence needs that you have?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel like you can present them?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you have you been out of work for a while?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there is a sense in which your faith community should welcome those questions and you should feel connected enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: to ask those questions and to answer those questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that speaks a bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: And to have them asked of you without a friend.
[SPEAKER_03]: See, that's the other part too.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, because we try, we try to have it one way or both ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, no, it has to go book.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a symbiotic relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's take for example, let's say you have somebody who's in a local church ministry and they, you know, they remember and we're talking about people who are in church leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's say that person has, I don't know, within that year, maybe loss of the love family member of a parent, or let's say they've gotten divorced.
[SPEAKER_00]: And nobody in the church knows nobody knows.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody in the church knows, and I'm not, that's not a critique at the person who's in pain, but I'm just saying like, to me that just demonstrates that there's some kind of disconnect there because where you don't feel comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody, some friendship of someone that goes to that church, some leader, somebody should know not for the purpose of judging the person.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to minutes to the person, like, how can we not know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you've got a whole husband who's no longer in your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we don't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a child who's sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a parent who's past.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't gotta tell people about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and here's the thing, and this is my last point.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's somebody who's been in church leadership, but whatever, people will still hold a church responsible for the emotional disconnection they feel, whether they shared it with the church or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: like the feeling, the feeling of like the people care about me will still be very real for people whether they disclose or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll want the connection and care even if they don't want to express the vulnerability of sharing the details.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just think that we just, I think he would have to be fair to each other about that and really try to keep praying and seeking systems so people can share.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gossip is really about intention and whether or not you have the permission
[SPEAKER_00]: to expose information.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what got some permission.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when it becomes a place of God.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your intention with the information and do you have permission to share the information?
[SPEAKER_00]: And would you share it in the same way if that person was in front of you as you were communicating out?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like a heart posture.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we shouldn't know about each other if we go to church together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, that's just how I feel about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: We absolutely should rock and then we'll sum.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you know, I think after the commercial break, I think it would be good to hear from you as someone who was in, like, in a ministerial capacity about boundaries.
[SPEAKER_03]: What does that look like for somebody?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think that's important for people to hear that too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I think sometimes people can anywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's take a commercial break.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when we come back, we could talk more about boundaries, but also the rest of them may all bad questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: So don't go nowhere, y'all.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll be right back.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe you'll finish this book feeling the same way.
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[SPEAKER_03]: Alright y'all we're back at the table for our mail back episode and before we went to the break yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, we were talking about all the things regarding the difference between like gossip and true genuine curiosity, making those times the distinctions.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but then also, um, some are lifting up a little bit of boundaries.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I was, um, curious because Julia had asked, like, what does it mean to manage these relationships within the church, particularly as somebody on the ministerial stuff?
[SPEAKER_03]: Where does that look like what a boundaries look like?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, can you just speak to that a bit?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can try.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, from your advantage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, for yourself, but you know, I think I recognize that I think of boundaries as informed by obviously like my personality, family of origin or whatever, but a lot of the fact that I'm a psychologist too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that I might have
[SPEAKER_00]: tighter boundaries than someone else who just is in leadership and serves the church.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although I think they should have appropriate boundaries too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not like my church work that shapes my view on that first and foremost.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's my work.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's having been a mental health psychology.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I bring that with me in a way that's probably different than other people do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so a couple of things that I think I'm mindful of is that
[SPEAKER_00]: Church leadership, whether it is formal leadership or a leadership of influence, is a particular type of power.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you have to be mindful of the way that you use power, even if you don't think you have it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we all have some measure of it as it relates to someone else.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think we just have to be mindful of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what we ask of people, there are some things that I do not ask of other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what's an example?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I could.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that it's a sin, but I'm, but I'm mindful of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, I've been in churches where this is not uncommon at all, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That one family in the church might ask another person in the church to provide child care for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be very cautious about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not because I think something's wrong with the person, but it's a type of ass that I would not want to obligate someone into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are people who like, I want to help you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to serve your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am mindful of that because I would not want to be making an ass that someone felt like they couldn't say no to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just recently, like, you know, we, you know, we do teaching where I'll have when we have panel discussions and think I'm mindful of who I ask because I have to be able to ask people who I think have the capacity to say no freely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, oh, the power you mean power dynamic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't say no and also I have to have the, but by the way, position isn't the only power that happens in church, right, but somebody can be a member.
[SPEAKER_00]: and they could have more social power and influence than someone who's ordained leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're sure for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because of money, because of resource, because of racial or gender dynamics and longevity in the church, maybe, or yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just title based.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to do like a power assessment, like a asset mapping of like, how does your influence work out?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I tend to be just more mindful of those types of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am boundaryed in the sense that I'm thoughtful about who
[SPEAKER_00]: who I bring around my children.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And who has access to their lives in their story.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a particular sensitivity to the way that missionary kids and pastors kids are treated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, that I think I think people are lying.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not even just in the context of my family, but having been in the therapy world at one point, I had I had where work with several preachers kids and missionary kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the ways in which they witnessed their parents being mistreated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, slandered the ways that they were pulled into saying the things they overheard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so people people have to be careful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think people can, and again, I, I'm all about holding leadership accountable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I, this is, nature of the work I do, but I know for a fact that people put unfair expectations on leaders.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and, and scrutinize them in a way that they do not scrutinize their own lives and their own behaviors.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just think we have to be fair to people.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to be fair to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think having boundaries sets people up to not tempt people to be unfair.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my last little story I remember I was talking to, I've talked to, I know a lot of pastors' wives.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: from different traditions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And but he's not like the black turds Baptist tradition kind of world sort of our pinnacle store.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, I know people who have a whole lot of like rules.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't say out loud.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't announce them, but they have their own personal rules that are rooted in a story.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what we get out policies from power.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, policies come from a person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember having, oh, this is years ago, a pastor's wife tell me,
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and she just decided to tell me this and I realized that I was privy to the dialogue only because I was married to someone who's clergy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise she wouldn't, but you know, she would kind of have to have close in the proximity to the experience in any way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she was saying how she gets invited to baby showers and activities like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her church all the time is she doesn't go to any of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she made a lot of clothes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she made a choice not to attend any even if she really wants to go even if it's someone that she has a closer connection to because she was like I know that people will will count up where I go where I don't go and they will hold that against me.
[SPEAKER_00]: They will it will become you know, she decided to go here, but she didn't go there and they have no sense of the capacity that she really actually has or what her other responsibilities are.
[SPEAKER_00]: or the fact that she has a family outside of people that goes to the church, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I remember that I don't completely function that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tend to tell people straight up like, you know, I'm busier than the average person I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I try to attend things that I can attend.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't have a concrete rule about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I can make it, you try to attend.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm not there, it is because I did not have the capacity time wise or maybe rest wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: to be able to make that happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would rather shape a culture where people, we push each other to give each other grace and not make assumptions.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that being said, I'm at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not responsible for all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure you'll have thoughts and feelings about that at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that was good.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sharing your wisdom on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your hard rock with the my word.
[SPEAKER_03]: My word.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this other question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just some debating.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go with this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: This question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to leave the name anonymous because she was brave to share some of you know some of the details from she says can you all talk about managing a friend slash unforgiveness in its impacts I'm late to the table she's like you know a new sister the day yeah hey welcome to the table says
[SPEAKER_03]: But personally, I didn't leave a relationship when God told me to because I wanted to go on mutual peace instead of leaving and dust in my feet off.
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, mutual peace is hard to find in twain twain twain twain.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, I wanted to go and I think it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a godly go.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't leave a relationship with God told me too because I wanted to go on mutual peace instead of leaving and dusting my feet off resentment grew in me and in them now I'm working hard to find forgiveness mostly from my lack of obedience and not letting it impact my other relationships because we know unforgiveness can really it can't bleed out also I find in the political climate you know that offense is ubiquitous but which is it's the currency you know and which people didn't people bought
[SPEAKER_03]: And so she's like this culture of offenses and growing resentments is terrible on my spirit.
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, yeah offense unforgiveness and it's impact.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you think about that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, gosh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, what I really appreciated about her question here is her transparency.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, I love when people are able to own now.
[SPEAKER_03]: This will my part.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did not leave when God told me to leave.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, and because of that, you know, some resentment grew in me and in them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so I was a matter of, but because of my disability, I was supposed to live in me and a group and they got worse.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I did better.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know,
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm working hard to find forgiveness mostly because of my lack of obedience and not letting it impact my other relationships.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'd like the I'm grateful for the transparency, the recognition that this can bleed into, it's a little leaven, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm forgetting this is a little leaven.
[SPEAKER_03]: You find some offense in one thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: You start finding offense and everything because everybody's lost.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's imperfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, really, your brain gets wired to look for it, to look for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, right, to look for that pattern, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so I think it's, yeah, managing offense and unforgiveness more.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is just, um, ongoing process.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna say, there's still some people, you know, that have harmed me, that I still have to continually go to God about and give them, give them over to God, help me lower to release them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, to cancel the debt.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, at least I think that's part of it as continually doing that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not gonna lie.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, that's not always there daily.
[SPEAKER_03]: It needs to be in there more in the year, twenty twenty five a year of our Lord.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why we pray to Lord's prayer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: Build in that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is in there for a reason.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so asking the Lord to release that, you know, from us, because it's like we have to be released from the grip of unforgiveness.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really actually see it as a spirit.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like we often think that we're the ones holding onto it, but I actually think unforgiveness is holding onto us.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and we need to ask God to release all this.
[SPEAKER_00]: From the grip again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And definitely feel like change.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like the jaws of life.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, you know, we got to be pride away from it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that in the context of relationship, it always so difficult.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so difficult, particularly I think if this was like a deep friendship with a good friend or if this was a romantic relationship Oh boy the people the people that you love most of them wasn't gonna hurt you the most Yeah, so that's a joke.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so hard.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is so hard, but I think that we have to What I'm learning.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's learning to trust God What who God blocks
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, uh, and not, is that my default is belong to God.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just as much as you could block, you can also bring.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And why did I have to go through that at all then?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, if they weren't going to be right.
[SPEAKER_03]: God is like, sum it down.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why have to go through all of that?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, but
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think we have to give race to ourselves.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's part of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I want to tell this to give yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give yourself self compassion.
[SPEAKER_03]: Offer it to yourself.
[SPEAKER_03]: And as you're offering it to yourself, don't hoard it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give it to the other party.
[SPEAKER_03]: Know that we're flawed.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have all types of different ways that we're socialized.
[SPEAKER_03]: We all types our brains are wired differently.
[SPEAKER_03]: Get out of me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that everybody's all.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fire in a law, cylinder citizen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give me a little dirty little dance for it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everybody's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the bodies are not okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, give me just some grace.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give me the other people some grace.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also really being able to entrust ourselves to a good God and really believing me.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has every one of our footsteps ordered and that none of our relationships on interactions are wasted.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was something for us to get.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was something for us to glean.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was something reveal about us in that relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: That we can learn from and then we can hopefully apply to the next.
[SPEAKER_03]: person, friend, or partner, whoever God's bringing into your life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that hopefully we move more grace, more intentionality, more obedience, hello.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's, I'll be in God the first time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Help us, not easy to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think that's how we kind of manage and forgiveness is recognizing like, oh, yeah, it's still there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that she's on the right track, actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Recognizing that she has it, giving it over to God, but giving over God continually, asking God to
[SPEAKER_03]: And then reveal to you what you were supposed to learn.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, because none of that was wasted.
[SPEAKER_03]: Even in your disobedience, it wasn't wasted.
[SPEAKER_03]: And God's going to work it out for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's what I would say about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: As far as our political climate, I already said it before is that I have a commitment.
[SPEAKER_03]: to pray for those who have been beguiled and bewitch into this cult.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my personal commitment to keep myself from bitterness and forgiveness and resentment.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now just because I put up a boundary.
[SPEAKER_03]: And just because I say, oh, this person is no longer my friend does not mean, though, that that's void of love.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know we have a hard time holding those things together.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to probably talk about this more in the show, but my commitment to staying soft into loving those who are set themselves up in my enemies is to pray for them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to do it and pray for myself, too, because we all got blind spots.
[SPEAKER_00]: Question, what would you say?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a command for a reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, commands or commands or things they wouldn't do unless it was convenient.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same thing with our faith and our obedience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the way that we know that we are seeking to be obedient to God is that God gives us something that we don't want to do and we do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot measure obedience by things that you want to do because you would want to do them and do them anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the only way, you know, yeah, we can't really see if we are being obedient.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the scripture tells us to love God as so big.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are demonstrating our love by doing the thing that doesn't necessarily feel easier natural to us at least initially sometimes there are things that we grow over time to be like I love this and it pleases the Lord great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the win, but yeah, I mean, I think that's the I had to remind myself of that as well like my immediate obedience is shown not by doing the stuff that I like to do typically.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly exactly
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think, yeah, I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You did know that this sister is kind of self-announced.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that work.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just really mature and thoughtful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that relationships are just hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of them, all kinds of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they lift up mirrors.
[SPEAKER_00]: They reveal us.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't like to see ourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the best way for us to see ourselves is in comparison.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's in relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the mirror for which we get to self-analyze.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's just difficult to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, forgiveness is
[SPEAKER_00]: Forgiveness is the challenge of the believer.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm telling you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it does not change.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is, I believe it is our challenge until we see the lower face.
[SPEAKER_03]: Forgiveness and waiting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think until we see the lower face, the face is hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are going to be challenged by, by forgiveness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yet I've always told people that I think we have to get in alignment with at least wanting what God wants.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if we cannot do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if we in our strength, we have to agree with God.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to start with agreement with God.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then the desire has to be there like Lord, I can't do this in my strength, but I want to be free.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: from seeking this emotional debt, this physical, well, you name it from this particular person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't want to be diluted.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to pretend like bad wasn't bad when they did what they did or whatever in order to have to in order to feel like I can release it or look away from it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that forgiveness part is so important.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think I think that's where we see
[SPEAKER_00]: to the degree to which we're being sanctified and how we're growing and how we're maturing is through obedience to things we don't want to do and through and through forgiveness, which you mentioned the importance of self compassion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's spot on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I find that people who, you know, we know this from like, from... It doesn't come natural in me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't come natural in me.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is from like the world of therapy clinicians.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like kind of our wheelhouse and mindfulness work.
[SPEAKER_00]: People who are unable to be compassionate to others are unable to be compassionate to themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those things are directly tied to each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we see somebody who has self-oriented perfectionism,
[SPEAKER_00]: It is much easier for them to also have.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not always one-on-one to one, but they can often have other oriented professionals and two, like they're holding themselves in a possible standard, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so... Talk to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I've gotten better, Victor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: A hundred, I mean, a lot of therapy, life, prayer, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's all of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm at just things, it was really a great honor.
[SPEAKER_00]: We recognize that our ability to be compassionate with how we think about ourselves, like, oh, yeah, I did miss that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or what's going on in my world?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we say it was going on in my world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why did it happen that way?
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we could get practice saying that about somebody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say that the offense part, we, you know, a lot of our offenses are, I, I tend to think that one somebody is, one somebody is tripping.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tend to think.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the record would show.
[SPEAKER_00]: About nine to five percent a time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it is true.
[SPEAKER_00]: They really trippin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I got some, I feel like I got some recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I call you up and I'm like, hey, I feel like that is the, it's very rare.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've had a lie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, and then like in like two, three years, two months, two days, like there's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: With that being said, only God is omniscient, not me, you're not anybody else, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think that can create a type of ego, like discerning people can develop an ego around being discerning.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you still have to kind of go, it's hunker down and say, no, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to, what if they meant it this way?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: My brain will quickly give me, like, what if they meant it, like, they tripping, you know, I can get that, that's like my default.
[SPEAKER_00]: My default is like they were clowning where they did this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I have to stretch myself to have an imagination for like, yeah, what if I'm missing the tone?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if I miss interpreting the by language?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if something else was happening?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if that wasn't about me at all?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if, you know, the frequency that I hear people tell stories about people and they're like, yeah, I think she's got, I think she's, you know, she got this energy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, is it that the person, is that about me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I misinterpreting their body language?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, do other people feel like, I think we have to do some mental checking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think we don't have enough energy to be offended all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think love asked the additional questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, we because it's rooted in curiosity.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we just don't have enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have enough emotional resources to just be big mad and to create a world in our mind where everyone is against against you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, some people really are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, so we have to save our energy and resources for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just don't want to be in the enemy making business.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I would say.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: To your point, the curiosity is just critical.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just asking that extra question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would also say this is also helpful to some degree with unforgiveness and, you know, particularly in the context of romantic relationships.
[SPEAKER_03]: For me, I try to still even when the door has closed with that person, I still, and they've set themselves up, you know, and they treat it in their sauna or just like, I still try to pray for them still.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's really hard to be to hate or be angry or resentful towards somebody that you're praying for.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not hard to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe it's possible.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's hard to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it helps to break that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I try to keep a commitment to praying.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a time where I'll just feel a release to where I'm a release to where I don't have to pray for them any longer.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there's a sense in which there's a period of time.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just my own personal discipline that I felt like, OK, let me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, just continue to land up this person.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because if people were, if there was, the religion was only about, or the friendship, whatever, was only about what that person could do for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's called objectification.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a very transactional relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: We ought to be able to be relation with people without expecting anything from them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm not to say in relationships, yes, yes, we have a lot to teach you, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_03]: You are too, but I think that we can fall.
[SPEAKER_03]: We are so confined ourselves, objectifying other people.
[SPEAKER_03]: If we could easily discard them in the spirit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: When it's done, even if they did it right, you know, I'm short of abuse.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not trying to make excuses for anything like that right by the way.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm just saying, what does it mean for us?
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to move differently as Christians.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I do believe that we got moved differently as Christians.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what does it mean to continue to pray for those right to love your enemies to pray for those who persecuting.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like to actually do the work in the work of the Lord.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if in our minds, it's not easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we can make them, if we can make them not enemies, especially if they haven't declared themselves to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now what people might be is like disappointing or trifling, immature.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ragged self protecting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, raggedy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, all the things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the enemy has the, the enemy is kind of like a for disposition of like coming, it's like a combatant.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like coming for you coming for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it can feel that way in your body if you have not released.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're going to be carry out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would say, careful about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even as we assign the language to the people, we want to be wise about that because the designation that we give people is going to then create a narrative about our body, then response to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm, I try to work really hard, you know, like there are people who I know have done me wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: They may not know I know, but like I know, like I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and we both are connected enough in all kinds of, like, or discernment or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, you know, and, but, but I also know that they are more than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: but I also still write to my boundaries as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I have a write to my boundaries around people who have shown themselves be unkind, whatever degree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All the above range, the ranges there, the ranges there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, I think that question is a really great one for us to be thinking about.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it's helpful in seeing people's capacity for me is really helpful.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh, this person.
[SPEAKER_03]: throughout the world within themselves, so they gon be a world with me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, people are disappointing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people are disappointing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people are disappointed.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is why I think it's so important that we do not inadvertently make idols out of ourselves or other people because people just cannot bear the weight.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can't wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are going to let us down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they should be accountable when it was willful and it was wrong and all those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we also I think can set people up with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exxonorable expectations of what we want of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they have an option to be able to get with it or not get with it too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think as I listened to that question too, I was thinking about I was just curious of like I wonder what those conversations were looking like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, context of that relationship before it ended in why they person wanted to hold on longer after the Lord said you should step away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It could have been the fresh.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we don't know the dynamics, but I'm grateful for the question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a really good one.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that departure conversation is awkward as a moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: That departure conversation of like this is not a fit or this or this or that's the conversation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, because maybe maybe we don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: They might have just been a complete cause.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, she said that she got, she had got this sense of like, I knew that I need to walk away.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm saying that in the eye out to walk away part sounds to me like it's when the conversation of I'm now walking away probably should have happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, but I'm saying people avoid that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's why they, they avoid them coming.
[SPEAKER_03]: They just blocked.
[SPEAKER_03]: They do all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, but that was, that was good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know what, there are actually more questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what have to do?
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess another bell back question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you all for sending those questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's more.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I said this more because I thought that was really good in me.
[SPEAKER_03]: God willing we could do another mail back episode this season.
[SPEAKER_03]: So thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give that was fun, huh?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, never deep questions, but we got some to say.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we got, we got lots to say.
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, thank y'all so much for taking a seat at the table with us.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's give the conversation going send us more mail-back questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: Send them to AskTruthTable at gmail.com.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't forget to read and review the show on iTunes and all, wherever your favorite podcast player is, let me see that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, YouTube, you know, other places where you can see us and hear us.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have been your host, the company, and Christina.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll see you soon on the next true stable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye, y'all.