[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Forty K-Lorecast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Forty K. Lorkats with me, John Barsati and Brad Chester.
[SPEAKER_00]: This guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do a little caveat for we start this cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Today's cast is brought to you by upper respiratory infections.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if the audio in this gets a little choppy at some point, just know it was me cutting out Brad or myself hooking up a lung.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to throw my shout out now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we have a new listeners, I pat with this after LVO just happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I gave out the cards, talked to people about lower cast, met one of my buddy, shot it's Sean, but my boy, Pad Rock, Rocco found the lower cast and said he really enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then said he's really sad because he's only getting it one or two episodes more because I will die of old age.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, like a physical problem, just because I'm old.
[SPEAKER_00]: because you're wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the sad part is you actually might be bordering on twice the age of some of some of the average players.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's wildly so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, additionally also little announcement for everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you go to www dot the forty klorcast.com, we have a web page now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So please go to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that some links in there?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be updated as we go through, but I had some free time over a weekend and decided to make a web page.
[SPEAKER_01]: In a moving forward, we'll have a lot more content on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have a lot more links.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll have things of the other content that I do between coaching and everything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the shit out of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We used to, Brad and I were having a discussion and we didn't want to have a weird link in our cast that did forty five different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think we can have the cast link to one web page and we can do all this stuff off that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, to the actual subject matter at hand,
[SPEAKER_00]: We've discussed the heresy, we've done the Imperium.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've even got a few Zenos.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's only one thing we haven't covered so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what we're going to cover?
[SPEAKER_01]: The first model I ever owned in Forty Kay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to dive into chaos.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if we're going to jump into chaos, why not do who might be?
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually were discussed this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure if he's the second most, third most, fourth most influential figure in the entire Forty Kay universe, please in that level.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the antagonist for the story of Forty Kay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, figure it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually, like she advised us now, it says in the title of the cast, so I'm like, who were being mysterious, but you wouldn't have seen the word abad in the right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to flip a coin so that I have a downer at a bed on the entire time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: What her sounds coming to my mouth is going to be that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Abadon.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say it is technically Abadon.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have phonetically it is spelled Abadon, but enough people have said a bad end to me over the years that now it's just going to be that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you got to go the destroyer, the destroyer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say when we talk about how important this character is to the universe, I list them as the third most influential member because I think the Emperor and then Horace and then.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the main storyline in the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Abidans Black Crusades have been a part of the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the whole time pretty much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't see any limitation.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the continuation of the horocerosy.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is now the long war?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, that's a good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the bridge.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is the bridge to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the base.
[SPEAKER_01]: Horocerosy is the basis of the game period.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, you know, it's been like, they just has.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not the zeros.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is what the game's based on effectively.
[SPEAKER_01]: And with the road trainer people are going to throw this out to me because the Horacee was not big in the beginning, but yeah, the modern game for the last twenty five thirty years is effectively based on that and he's the continuation of that and most of the storyline that propels the game forward is based around
[SPEAKER_01]: him trying to do something and other people trying to stop what he's doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I think it's fair for us to say this because we're both actually pretty heavy Zeno's players.
[SPEAKER_00]: Warhammer, Forty case, actually, largely space screen versus chaos.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Zeno's and I think it's why the Zeno's more fun to play, but they are side characters in the story.
[SPEAKER_00]: being honest, it's what it's supposed to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I played a lot of Skyrim and other things and fall out of, yeah, how often do you spend on the side quests?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Side quests are better and I'll be in the, I'm unavashably in the work fan, but I still think love the Zeno's factions are more interesting except for Tao.
[SPEAKER_00]: A bad and is kind of where I felt brand and I felt would be the best way to jump into chaos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when you look at a bad and the,
[SPEAKER_00]: The best way I think I would describe, is that he has affected every single fracture in the game, has him one way or another been affected by a bad end.
[SPEAKER_00]: They all want him dead.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is probably the most hated figure in the entire game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to be honest, he's a noble dick before we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is before we started recording today.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to get into a bunch of the story and his origin, everything else.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the biggest things about why I think he's a great character is because he has self-doubt.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's lost.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's won.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has flaws.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not just this
[SPEAKER_01]: satirical mustache that we're a little bit longer yeah he's like he's got real and the thing is is that he's right about a lot of shit yeah he's a bad dude don't get whoa whoa whoa we were we actually argued whether how evil versus not evil and we'll get into more of this yeah as we go on
[SPEAKER_01]: but like he has like real legit reasons sometimes a lot of the books I love when they have him talk about stuff and you're like oh shit did he just make a wildly good point about what's going on right now you're like oh you've you've got a point you're not just killing people to kill people you're you have a reason sometimes you're doing that sometimes most of the time you're doing terrible shit
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think it's importantly talked about people like Angron.
[SPEAKER_00]: Angron was always angry, not the best naming mechanic on the part of GW.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you look at a lot of these people, a lot of the main characters, they're in higher story arc.
[SPEAKER_00]: There isn't much of a knock that's a clear plateau.
[SPEAKER_00]: They started being this one person that became a bigger version of that person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Abadan's story arcs actually much more involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: He actually goes through, Abadan effectively earns his way to his current situation to what Brad was saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has these epiphanys and these moments and they affect him and they change him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he still has things where he has to worry about am I doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Even as the arch villain, he still has doubts about should I be accepting more chaos?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, should I be doing this?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's trying to stay true to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even though that staying true to him is staying true to a lot of evil shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's very complex.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what makes him a great villain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was hoping to be able to put a record Ralph reference in here of your bad guy, but not that guy, but not he's a bad guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a very bad person.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing is he was there from the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't corrupted by chaos.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was just, let's just jump in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's dive into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a thing enough teaser of the episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into who a bad man actually is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So his first name is Azizikyo because why not?
[SPEAKER_00]: I will, as always talk a good amount of crap on some of the stuff that naming me as GW uses throughout their events.
[SPEAKER_00]: But a bad man actually is from Sithonia, Sithonia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sithonia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that makes it easier to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's basically, you know, Barcelona.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, it's from he's from evil Barcelona, uh, it's from Horace's home.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was, as we discussed before, the planet that kind of, the dark age of strife ripped this planet to shreds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this planet got wrecked.
[SPEAKER_01]: Their planet was bad, bad because they effectively
[SPEAKER_01]: used everything to make weapons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, brand Niagara actually because that's we're going to one of our cast that we're going to pretty soon is we're going to go through the different types of worlds in the Imperium, you know, and kind of what life is like on each of them spoiler, not great unless you unless it starts with paradise world, it's yeah, even paradise world, there's still some really bad jobs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, because you're in paradise for people that have all of the stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, the Thonia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thonia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thonia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thonia.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thonia was a actually was it was a wonderful world full of natural resources that and then it was that the man of iron stripped every last piece out of it and then left everyone there to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was, as I'm trying to think of a good reference for what this is like, I mean, I'm going original Mad Max.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, kind of actually, they took all their resources and left them.
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing is is what happened there is that they left them with just enough resources that you have to kill everybody that has resources.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, enough that a few of you can survive, but not all of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, one thing leads to another, and for those of you who don't know the story of Horace, that is the world that Horace was raised on.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was raised in the world of warlords who are just constantly killing each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to give Horace props, he immediately started writing shop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Horace conquered the Horace became warlord quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the warlord.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was with a speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: After Horace has left, Gethonia, though, he didn't, you know, we laugh.
[SPEAKER_00]: We did the Dark Angels last time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the lion comes up on Caliban.
[SPEAKER_00]: He turns Caliban around.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get rid of all of the evil warp beasts.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to unify the planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Horace is kind of pieced out.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were all like, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we just go back, we're going back to the pile.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he instantly leaves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like literally, I just, I'm supposed to rescue the princess from the castle and the Emperor showed up as like, hey, we don't, we don't have time for this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just leave the castle.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're on the right, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: The horse went out and I'm out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Horace's left and the world is right back where it started.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is, again, GW naming mechanics.
[SPEAKER_00]: A bat has a father and a guest that had to write a name really quickly and they just went around the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something about his dad's name, go.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a one-tark item.
[SPEAKER_00]: So his dad is Tarkadden.
[SPEAKER_00]: His dad's also a douche.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, son of Bargadden.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they were just gonna go through anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're not wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can make fun of that dude's name because he sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Super Warlord.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, instantly he's like, hey, we'll give you three dollars to murder the rest of the people that are your best friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, I would have done it for two.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Tarkadden is bad news, but he is one of the most powerful warlords of the entire planet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the buddy got there by when they talk about him, he's the guy that you go to the meeting with and just assume he's instantly going to stab you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just what he wants.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the bad guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the biggest thing is, is that, Abadan, the dome is going to call the dawn.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he can tell you.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dawn gets the same type of, and he's expected to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, because this is his dad and his dad's like, this kid's going to just like me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Abadan didn't like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He looked at the life his father had in the way that these people operated.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a really important piece about Abadan.
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't like the disloyalty.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was always been, even still not.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't care how he should now.
[SPEAKER_01]: For forever, his big thing was, I'm not a good guy, but I'm a loyal guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's my group of friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you do anything to them, I'm going to stand you in the head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, we should probably point out the fact that he's a gorilla.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he is so big.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to get to it a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Aberdon is not a small frail man hiding in the bushes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before he got any of the organs or got any juice stuff stuff, he was already.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's up, guys?
[SPEAKER_01]: I heard someone was here to play the part of the mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: My god, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: His father brings bad men and says, you know, you're gonna take over for me, but before you can do that, you have to show me the show, feel to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not literally, but feel to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're gonna show me, feel to you by killing all of your friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'll let you take over.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Abidon says, you know, somebody keep flipping up a bad man and Abidon the whole time.
[SPEAKER_01]: What he then does instead is it's okay cool and then murders his father and his father's bodyguard But also why instantly yeah, yeah, but his dad basically says this and he goes Yeah, you couldn't have said anything more wrong to me Yeah, also he didn't like his dad in the first place You know what I was probably gonna kill you at some point in time
[SPEAKER_01]: How about now?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he, it's a brutal scene, by the way, because he's like poppin' ice out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, he does this by hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is, shows that he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, of course, at this point, he just murdered the largest powerful warlord in the entire
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, planet and all the body guards.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now we've got that John Wick moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have to go on their run.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, probably John Wick's favorite, a good reference from what just happened there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, yeah, use the pencil.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were a forty K pencil is a data slate.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: If only we had one.
[SPEAKER_00]: If only we had a data slate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, actually, you know, by the time this comes out, we will.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, he won't actually, you guys have figured out recording this three days before.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, he, you know, he's on the run and he's getting cornered in the loonables show up and they, they grab and they say, look, you're perfect for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to recruit you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, on a side thing with this, he just set the tone for what was going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: The loonables kind of didn't realize that, of course, his own planet became a shit show like eight seconds after he left.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So because they kind of got caught up in the, oh, yeah, crusade.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then work, we have to go back and we'll pull recruits from Thona.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they kind of came back and went, do what do you guys been doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think first off, A level recruits.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, absolute A plus level recruits are going to get out of this book.
[SPEAKER_01]: They rocked it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's several planets that they on the side thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a great place to get people from.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is if you're trying to build super warriors out of stuff, fall out just going kill for the name of the emperor, you can do worse in Katania.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Fabidan was pretty all-an-on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Becoming a crew.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, so stay here in this god-off little shit show or make a difference across the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You had me at leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: One really cool story part of this story here that I, this is the story arc I like to do about Abadan is
[SPEAKER_00]: They asked him, you know, the little asking, why did you kill his father?
[SPEAKER_00]: And his response was, I never wanted to be king.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was his, that was his destiny for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, a really important piece of the story because
[SPEAKER_00]: Abidan doesn't want to be a leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's always been a reluctant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Always a reluctant leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he keeps ending up in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as well as we'll discuss from the next you pass from.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, good at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but the thing is, is that from the beginning, everything from the beginning, he's always the dude that takes care of business.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: They just, and because he's that guy that takes care of business, people keep giving him, you should be in charge.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, we have to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, well, I guess I'll do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess I can go do it without everybody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, then they give him the gene therapies.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You stay away from his top now.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing us a side dive.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, like for those who don't know, Abadan is always featured with a top not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the top is a power top, that's about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, the, the samurai think what they were trying to do, my opinion, was they were with the samurai style top, which is like a foot tall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the problem is the model.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the top not is taller than his skull.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like hot, hot.
[SPEAKER_00]: hot garbage and I am I hate it with a raging passion because it looks the top not looks awesome on a samurai reviging but every model I've ever seen of him in their original models it's just this antenna sticking out of the top of the models head with hair on it and cranked you guys who've painted him he looks beautiful I have seen people do incredible things with this
[SPEAKER_00]: still looks stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's this piece.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all I can think about is someone like the ducking down and trying to sneak like, you know, but they've got a two foot haircut coming up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying that top that is going to make so many for up saves on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I appreciate it, but I'm just going with God.
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it stupid looking?
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I talked about before, he started off as a big, he's not a, he's a huge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not a, he's not like, hey, I'm slightly bigger than average.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not the, he's smaller than Primark, but not a lot smaller.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but he was honking as a regular guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he became a Marine and was big.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I don't know, and then you don't know if this is a psychic thing or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Abidane has always had a, it's the quote on the books a lot, a menacing presence.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, is that a psychic power or are you just a mean dude?
[SPEAKER_01]: And people are like, maybe I shouldn't mess with that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, I think a lot of it is that an avidon is one of those people that we think menacing, yeah, if he doesn't like you, he will kill you with his bare hands with little warning, you know, adds the thing, which is a little bit, we'll call that menacing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, quick to anger that leads to death is menacing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the modern version of the game, he's in super power armor.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's always a nice fun one, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing to print over discusses before the cast that we're going to dive into it now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Abanon has been rep-coned a few times because he's been around for thirty years the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to go into this real quick while we're saying it because
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he has been retconned.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been retconned way less than you think because a lot of times the retconning isn't a retconned.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's cleaning up a very small story that was referenced because he's been around forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's all these blurbs of things he's done and then they, and then they piece them together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yes, he don't give it wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been retconned.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like yeah, several times what he's, it's less than you think.
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's dive into one of the ones that I think is more interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was a period of time where there was a question of whether Abadan was a clone of horse.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was an earlier version of the game, but I do think we should touch on it, where the idea was, I guess it kind of like the idea, where the emperor lost all his primaries.
[SPEAKER_00]: They get scattered all over the place.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why wouldn't your first move be, or I'll just clone him, I'll make another one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my theory on that, because this has been wrecked on, so I can have any theory I want.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see how it's a beauty of it being wrecked on is he tried it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the chaos gods went, yeah, I'm going to warp him the same place as the other one.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll just keep stealing him, which is why I have a bad ends up on the same planet as Horace, maybe they're just messing with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, it is something I just want to reference for you people who were, you know, nor the game, but someone might mention him being a clone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, at one point he was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe sort of, and then they're not super nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, extra super not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe maybe a little horse, but not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it could cause awesome little horses in the Legion.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had a few of these and you'll know you'll see them pop up through the stories, but for the most part, yeah, I know everyone agrees that this has been removed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, the Legion with the most names.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, is it really?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were the little wolves.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were sons of Horace.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now they're the Black Legion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's very, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you've been the most named characters.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, Ultraman's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ultraman's by Spades.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get to the Crusades now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Abadan is now next to Horace and he's a huge fan of Horace, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: He meets Horace and it's just like this dude rules.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is a big thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: One, all of the sons of primers are literally psychically bound to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're just, you're effectively magically forced to already hold them and think.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that his thing already is loyalty.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he finds this is what I should be living.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like I will do what needs to be done.
[SPEAKER_01]: also to upkeep this, but also he's a big deal in keeping people, if you shit talk horrors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, don't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if he is as he's lead by example, though, he's he becomes the first captain.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't become the first captain because he's boys with Horace.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Don doesn't talk a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is incredible in combat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this was so he actually ended up leading what's called the Jesteron and the Jesteron are a special subgroup of the lootables that were
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's literally the seal team six.
[SPEAKER_01]: He'll take space, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But with, it's different because seal team six kind of like comes out of the shadow hits you when you're not looking at blah, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not what he's doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The just there and go, where is the biggest toughest part of the enemies?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's right over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Me and my guys are going to kill that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the Chesteron are so cool because they really would just go right up the gut on an enemy defense, kill everything and just make a big hole.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the reasons that Horace ended up becoming warmaster besides that the charisma thing is they were putting up sick numbers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the Chesteron was one of the biggest reasons that
[SPEAKER_01]: They're dominating when they go places.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just runs through them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he just rises a title of first captain because everyone went, yeah, yeah, he's the best work.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of these things we've talked about a lot where this isn't Aberdon's rise within the lunar wolves was not contested by anybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like everyone was like, yeah, he's the best go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was just, yeah, he's incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, what ends up happening though is Horace, a cool thing about Horace is
[SPEAKER_00]: He was actually a very smart leader, and he realized that you can't lead without advice.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he builds the more of all.
[SPEAKER_01]: The more of all is the council equals.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is where everybody can speak.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's the word a lot, but like this is the one.
[SPEAKER_01]: The more it was amazing, because it also has some of the greatest characters in Forty Kay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it has the Don, Targaryen Don, Little Horace, and my favorite character and literally all of Forty Kay in the novels, which is looking.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's because of the fact that he is wildly
[SPEAKER_01]: the worst fighter out of all of those guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just Indiana Jones is in through what seven blocks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he does well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the dawn is the, he's the closest advisor to or is in this because everybody has their say, and then they have to give the, well, what's the the most efficient and ruthless thing to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then everybody looks at Abidana goes,
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we've all got our opinions.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think we should do?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, no one's going to like my idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're going to go do it the hard way.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what he did, but he was always successful.
[SPEAKER_00]: This council of work at these very role was to make the Luna wolves the most successful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Abadon was one of those.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we did a cast before talking about SpaceBrain's bread, Brunsett made a great point of space, a regular space marine is not just a combat.
[SPEAKER_00]: He also could absorb data and can analyze data.
[SPEAKER_00]: It also, and Abadon's maybe one of the better ones at that in the entire game, like again, bordering on primarclable when he was to regular space marine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, his clever could see holes and new to exploit them.
[SPEAKER_01]: hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing is, is that he started that early on.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see it even if you read the, it got, you always read the horse hair saying, yeah, the novels.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you look at that in the war, even when they're getting down the, the path of chaos, he knows what's going on, but doesn't know what's going on at the same time.
[SPEAKER_01]: He sees a lot of insight to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think he's just okay with it because
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, from the early on, what's his deal?
[SPEAKER_01]: Loyalty, he felt that he got betrayed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, let's actually let's just jump into the horror's heresy, pre-Harracy, Ullinore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Huge work battle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the biggest work battles?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was so excited to know where the beast was.
[SPEAKER_01]: The arc battle.
[SPEAKER_00]: People are going to yell at me for a moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, but yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's different though.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, I would probably hear stories.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they're pre-Harracy, this is it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just as the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: As we discussed on the arc episode at Ullinore,
[SPEAKER_00]: the emperor and Horace, and number of the primaries actually had to fight their way through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Horace lands with first company, which is a bad news company, and their goal is kill the war boss.
[SPEAKER_00]: Horace gets to the war boss and actually does kill him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And afterwards comes back to find the entirety of first company terminators or dead, barring, a pile of dead orcs that starts wiggling, and a bad and comes out the bottom of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he did some stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he killed so many orcs that they actually fell on top of him and he was buried by them.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Aberdon's ability to fight slash.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a bad dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's just tough.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's also one of the thing is, is again, he's willing to keep going because he was supposedly deadly five times during that time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, the badminton actually almost dies throughout most of the heresy and then that theme continues.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think through most of the modern forty guy will be right back after a quick break.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think killed him off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Never happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: No bad, bad job.
[SPEAKER_01]: No bad writing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things this is that during this time and it's very, I don't think it's played up enough in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: is that the Don was leading spy networks from the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that gets played down a lot in the in the game itself and the the code and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But evidence was literally had a pretty vast network of spies all over the place amongst regular human space Marines, everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just he was
[SPEAKER_01]: brokering knowledge basically well I could see I think a lot he doesn't trust he's loyal but he but he doesn't trust because he comes from a planet I'm sorry it's gonna bail on that one yeah I'm like yelling I think there's a couple reasons that he doesn't trust I'm like so we're not gonna talk about the dad thing yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel that that's like probably if you were in one.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were in therapy right now, we'd probably go right to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So tell me more about your father.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he tried to have me murder all my friends and everyone he knows he murdered.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that might be a caused by your sadness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe it might be, but yeah, let's jump into the heresy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously we've covered the heresy a good amount, but let's kind of focus a bit more on what Abadans role was throughout the heresy and I think starting with the warrior lodges.
[SPEAKER_01]: Starting with the warrior lodges and
[SPEAKER_01]: He was already, the done was all in on Doris, okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever, if Horace decided we were doing bad shit or good shit, he was equally behind him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, he was real willing to murder you if you said something that was bad about Horace or just disagree with Horace to be honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when they started doing chaos, he was like, who finally I had to do exactly what I wanted to do before I usually had to talk to people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm just going to straight stab them in the head.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've been on a little bit rough during Harris.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the Don was in charge of getting more information for Horace.
[SPEAKER_01]: For who's who's going to turn to me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's not?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Horace again was brilliant, but he needed, you know, it helps to have he wouldn't know this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Horace knew the Esteban three had to be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Estevan three and Estevan five are very different.
[SPEAKER_00]: Estevan five was him neutering his enemies are effectively.
[SPEAKER_00]: Estevan three was him calling his own forces.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is impossible without Aberdon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he had to literally go these other people that are going to go, here's the maybe's, here's the nose.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he had his fingers on the pulse of the run of the mill, sons of son of horse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Effectively, every single soldier, honest fun, three, was on Abadon's list.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, yep, this one goes down there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's how he starts it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once it kicks off though, he doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: He does not slow down very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, he once it becomes, we are splitting.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has, he effectively takes the press out back and has them shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, anybody that says a bad word about it, because he is ruthless, but also pragmatic about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, I don't want anybody that could rebel roles.
[SPEAKER_01]: because one of the big things, they just lost a huge part of their Legion.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he didn't want his one of the reasons was it wasn't just that he wanted to kill somebody because he didn't like him last time he got coffee.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, I don't need these guys giving any doubt or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's just nip this in the bud.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because he's ruthless, he's a pragmatist, but ruthless in his pragmatism.
[SPEAKER_01]: And well,
[SPEAKER_01]: These guys will probably be fine, but they might not.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might not, so I take the risk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once the hair is he kicks off, this role for it, but actually expands.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now he's started figuring out which planets are going to be loyal, which supply lines are going to be loyal, which rogue traders are going to be, are going to be loyal.
[SPEAKER_00]: This becomes his next big step, because it's probably the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't talk about this enough, and nothing that codex is about some of the features that
[SPEAKER_00]: Abon on had, but this was maybe his greatest contribution to the horse heresy, barring the very end, where he actually made it so the heresy could continue.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was the one spreading so's of doubt within worlds of like is the emperor, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it is is Horace right?
[SPEAKER_00]: This was all at the Abon on.
[SPEAKER_01]: hundred percent and the thing is is that he was in charge of not even a charge of he just took it upon himself to nip anything in the bun because as we know as they got deeper and deeper in horse was starting to lose himself to cast and avidon didn't really know what to do about that
[SPEAKER_01]: But he knew that he wasn't going to let anybody else do anything down horse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's this is kind of the beginning of Abadon's rise.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like pointing out, we said earlier, a lot of Abadon's rise was reluctant.
[SPEAKER_00]: He, when you read the stories, especially the story during the horse heresy, it is constant backstabbing, power grabbing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: Luther is equal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's so many of these people.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not the whole, the stories of where they see any chance for them to move themselves up and they get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: How about I never wanted that?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, he's also got, he's biting into an ass flavored lemon as we continue on because the person in his life, Horace,
[SPEAKER_01]: is doing starting to be everything that he doesn't like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so let's go into credit what's happened with Horace's quick refresher.
[SPEAKER_00]: Brad's buddy, Lehman Ross went on a crusade down the middle of Horace's ship, stabbed Horace with his spear, and then pieced out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pretty much with the best of the story, but the spear ended up wounding Horace so badly that he had to make a new deal with the chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which was the third, the he's now, act we asked to cast several times actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the third big deal, but it's he's done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that a few others?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because he won a knowledge power to continue on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And each time that this happens, Abadans like pretty pissy because the whole thing is is that they ever betrayed us.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why we're doing this in the first place.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now he feels that the entirety of this is, what are you doing, man?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is not what we're we're supposed to be doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's this whole thing of hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been on was all it on Horus's original thing where the Emperor betrayed us.
[SPEAKER_00]: We counter the galaxy.
[SPEAKER_00]: He then handed our success over to somebody else.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's also thinking he's trying to achieve God.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what ends up happening is now you're watching Horus kind of go down the same path.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not really a reason for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But where this becomes it, but this is kind of what
[SPEAKER_00]: Abonance and string vote here though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Horace, as he's effectively in a coma, you know, for because the chaos, cause they're eating his soul.
[SPEAKER_00]: He hands the reins and over to Abonance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get puts Abonance charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Abonance just does what Horace wanted, done.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's, this is that whole thing at loyalty thing again where he went, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't agree with what you're trying to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like what you're trying to do, but you're in charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we get it, we get it done.
[SPEAKER_00]: which they do and so it those of you who haven't read the books effectively most of the campaign through through soul
[SPEAKER_00]: is Abadana at the hell, not horse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, horses doesn't even know where he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Half the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because he's in and out of being possessed by all four gods.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, to the point where Luna, maybe one of the most important victories in the siege of Terra, was Abadana.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was the one that actually went in there, leading as just staring.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he was going door to door.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like literally selling murder.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, one little funny story here is that I do like this Norse heresies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Aberdon leads at a tack on the Gene Labs on Luna.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it actually does seize them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It gets so they have the ability to make new, new legions.
[SPEAKER_00]: But because they lose the horse heresies, it's just a useless piece of information and technology because they have to go back to the idea of terror.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, not everything Aberdon did was successful.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's why, again, I like him as a character because he's not, I'll throw this out for zooms.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not a Mary Sue, which is what he calls all the primers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because he's failed a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: He succeeded a lot, but he makes bad choices to make street choices.
[SPEAKER_01]: Attacking the yield gate, which will not be named, which did not go well.
[SPEAKER_00]: He felt he fell for Doran's trap.
[SPEAKER_00]: He in that door.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was a wildly obvious trick.
[SPEAKER_01]: He also got Warren like, hey man, this is for sure a trap.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what I like about the story is a bad and sees the crack under the Saturnine gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: It says, there's a weak spot there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Petrovigos, it's not a weak spot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dorn did it on purpose.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's literally a giant ax.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally waiting for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a piano on a rope hanging over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, don't do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Abonon just says, screw you, you're wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go do this because I'm this good at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he just doesn't, I think at this point in time, until right now in the siege of Tera, everything's been going pretty damn well.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think he was just like, hey, man, I'm in Fuego.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been draining threes for the last half.
[SPEAKER_01]: What could happen?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, well, this could happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone could die.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: Say they, just a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those of you who didn't listen to the episode, they jumped out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a
[SPEAKER_00]: perfect track or basically the teleported and this is a teleported in everyone around they're surrounded by guns.
[SPEAKER_00]: I shoot them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not it's one of those things like now you've like taken not even red shirt on star track level death like it's just an instant and no
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, Abba doesn't survive and he teleports down, everyone gets shot and he teleports back out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he doesn't die there, but he kind of now has to shut the F up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's from a planning stage standpoint.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, oopsie, he basically goes back to the venture span.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is when all the shit went out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a weird thing because the Don, who will argue later, I think was evil from the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: You do not.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he did not want chorus to lose, but he also didn't want corrupted chorus.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was very torn about what he said.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wanted the original Horace to win and anything that they were doing that was kind of on those lines.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was fully supportive of, but he did not like the version of Horace that he was left with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we did enough justice we talked about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Horace was so corrupted.
[SPEAKER_00]: His physical form had changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it wasn't, he wasn't like, they kind of played Marines like in that level where it's like, he was, oh, somethings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, his form has changed, but he's also in and out of he's talking in multiple voices, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause he's projecting
[SPEAKER_01]: And when the Don goes back to the ventral spirit, he is bent out of shape.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not only did he just fail it stuff, but it's going down and he knows it's going down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, Don's back to the spiritual spirit.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just what he realizes that the shields are down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he figured, it's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows exactly what's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because Horace basically let the shields on and went bring your weak shit at her and Abidana's like, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And also kind of knows that this might go terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he still doesn't want Horace to die.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is one of my favorite parts of the book is he then just be lines for the bridge.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the vengeful spirit at this point,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a great place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, if you've seen event horizon, it is that times about seven thousand.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a bad and just decides anything between him and Horace, that is even mediocre in his way.
[SPEAKER_00]: is dying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he's all he's at full speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: He makes a fold.
[SPEAKER_00]: He decides going straight would be the best option.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she has, and it's, it's a cool part of the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's literally carving up demons.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there's, there's a random loyalists in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's other, other traders doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm, I am going to fight by Horace's side when he, against the emperor and no one is stopping me do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: and much like the roguel dorn for the emperor, he does not get there in time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he is, I think this is when he gets broken out of his spell because he goes from the most possible love for Horace to, I don't even know, hey, just disdain and disgust him.
[SPEAKER_01]: What happened?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's when he rips off the talent of Horace and takes his body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he takes the shit, but I'm saying, but he takes the shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's on the ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he had to make a way with that because you still had prime arcs hanging out.
[SPEAKER_00]: He picked up the body and carried it to the bridge and then he'd do something to turn this immediately.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's at this point that I think the spell was broken.
[SPEAKER_01]: He felt that Horace had been training him or at least betrayed their cause, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this becomes really the start of Abadon being the the the warmaster.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the Abadon.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the beginning because he goes on a vision quest.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about that in a minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like I really think that this is the point that we were he was the follower, the right hand man of Boris.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he became, not even just disillusion.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just took such a one, eighty.
[SPEAKER_00]: But on time with that, because yeah, this is, this is the inflection point.
[SPEAKER_00]: He breaks.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the story is very quick at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: The sun's a horse is just all bail.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they go back to the eye of terror because that's where you go if you need to escape the Imperium.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're being attacked the whole way because they are remember if you're going to rank out all of the traitor legions that you want dead if you're the Imperium.
[SPEAKER_00]: This horse's legion is number one, two, three, maybe through eleven.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also the guy that was leading the rest of the forces there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're running at full speed, being just.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're also being completely separated.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're making a wild dash.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not a fallback retreat.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a full run.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going back there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the other like trader legions took a bit of a walk about the way there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, oh, we'll stop off with this planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pick up some slaves.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll go to this planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were burning for no reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds the whores were going.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a big deal in this because, and I think it's this one of the reasons that they lost so much because the Don's not even trying to fight at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just trying to get the hell away.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think deal with what the hell is going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because again, he was just straight broken at this point in time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because everything that he thought was right and perfect and everything, even though that they were the bad guys, they were doing the right thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the guy that told you about this,
[SPEAKER_01]: became everything that you didn't like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I think, and it's a compounding effect that we've also discussed on prior episodes, when your primarck dies, it wrecks you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, this double hit of the primarck has died, which you know, set the blood angels off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really wants the red thirst and the blood angels.
[SPEAKER_00]: The iron hands became almost an unfit fighting force for a first man.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to just don't cut off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, it all does.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a forest.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like it's literally there's but the loonables, but the fact of matter is yeah, when the sun's up, when the loonables sun's up Horace, when Horace died, it also hit all of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you've got that going on while you're being attacked.
[SPEAKER_00]: It all just start the fall apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they eventually get all the way back to the eye of terror and this now they've got a bigger problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got a leadership void.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is not filled because Abonan, Cartman's it and says, screw you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: He takes the ship.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just, like, basically the paint just pops up, kicks everyone off the boat.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just drives away.
[SPEAKER_00]: It drives away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like, where are you going?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: nowhere by don't care peace out so and I just like I just thought there's this hilarious that he literally gets that out there with a vegetable spirit let's everyone off apparently at some stop and then just take the vegetable spirit over them also this is another reason why the dawn's a bad dude the dawn takes off all his armor yeah he gets out of his terminator armor and is wearing a tunic and he just rolls through the eye of terror
[SPEAKER_01]: contemplating life just wandering through.
[SPEAKER_01]: For a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: Meanwhile, behind him, the Legion is completely falling apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're also getting picked off by the other legions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll go next episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, so what's going to happen is if the chaos gods are coming in, I mean, this is, remember, as you look at all the legions, Horace's legion had no chaos deity.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're just kind of up for grabs for lack of a better thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so every member of the Legion who's wandering through the eye of terror, looking for leadership or whatever is just having chaos, God's go, well, I'll be your friend.
[SPEAKER_00]: And or murdering them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's more, it's more the second.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a lot of murder going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, a badman's gone and they have to figure this about.
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's spend just to get me the end of the episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: I spent a little bit more time here talking about a badman and kind of where he was and where we are.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a badman was just a warrior who loved loyalty.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, kind of like the lion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he was, I think I'm kind of like, I just, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, kind of what he was always, I think more violent.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, did we even disagree on this?
[SPEAKER_01]: I still think the Don was always, a Don started out lawful evil, and I think he became neutral evil because his loyalty always got betrayed him.
[SPEAKER_01]: All that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about it though.
[SPEAKER_01]: From dad, second dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're, you're, that's why I think he started off more around chaotic neutral lawful neutral and it up lawful evil but by choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That thing too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he, you have to think he has three fathers figures.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have the Emperor.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's actual dad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you have the Emperor and Horace.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of them to him betrayed him horribly, like base level betrayed.
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't steal ten dollars from his wallet.
[SPEAKER_01]: They betrayed his core beliefs.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Dan tried to kill him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone else basically said, hey, these are the things that are most important to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do the opposite.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to, I'm going to betray your loyalty.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to betray your trust.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to, I'm going to become things that you never want.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to become things you spent most of your life fighting together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They become the antithesis of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just thinks horses now just weakness.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what is even happening?
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I just went into
[SPEAKER_01]: The, in material, I went into the warp feed.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dip is wandering the warp.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, look, I mean, he's, he's on a walkabout.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a walkabout again with no armor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he does have the vegetable spirit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I know when like he's, he's in that, he's in the point where he just doesn't care what happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he doesn't know what to do to be honest with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: He got, again, he is a broken immortal man.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought you spent a point there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It never occurred to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been a follower.
[SPEAKER_00]: The entire his entire life can never been a true leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even when he was leading the sons of Horace against the Emperor, he was still doing four, four Horace.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's never been in a position of, I guess I'll just do what I want to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he doesn't know what he wants to do, because he's, again, just been a trifecta betrayed on a galactic scale.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's tough to be more betrayed than he thinks he's betrayed right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's a big deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt betrayed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I set the galaxy on fire because I was so mad about this betrayal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the guy that I followed did do this betray me again.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I'm also sitting into, oh, yeah, did I just travel into magic world?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, evil magic world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Evil magic world.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a magic world.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not imagination.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let them suffer from South Park.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's no bueno.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll just try to figure out, oh, cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently, thoughts exist and become reality, sweet.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll deal with that as we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's some new information that I have.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a fun one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think we're going to break there because the next piece we're going to get into is going to be the reemergence of Abadana.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I would call his rise to rise of the dawn.
[SPEAKER_00]: The rise of Abadana.
[SPEAKER_00]: because the goal he was having to tell you guys where he came from and how he how it all kind of fell apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as you play the game, obviously he came back up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the next episode we're going to dive pretty heavily into how a baton became the head of the Black Legion and which is pretty hard getting up along.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's actually impressively badass.
[SPEAKER_00]: With that though, we did want to talk about some books that you guys could read.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Brad actually compiled a list of these prepared.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've got Sol Hunter, which is the first book of the Nightloads, Chelice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Black Legion series, Talon Horace and the Black Legion.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do POVs.
[SPEAKER_01]: of the Don on.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pandorax, the Red Path, really no fabulous Biles book has a lot of interactions with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're getting to that in a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: They weren't big fans of each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the biggest things I would have everybody go into is the Codex Supplements.
[SPEAKER_01]: Specifically, if you can get
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've been a Forty-K person for a long time or you can go into the old bookstores, the sixth edition Black Legion Codex supplement has a wild amount of great stories in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's actually something that I do want to encourage you to do is read the older codexes.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Black Library is great, but it's really come on more recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it from a source as Forty-K's grown.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we had Black Library, we had Codexes, and actually the
[SPEAKER_00]: write it to the GW.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had some extremely good writing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That went into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that your fifth edition, sixth edition, fourth edition, the edition codex is there's some really cool stuff in there because that was how you learned the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would get a new codex and that was all you could know about the game until the next one came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they were, you know, obviously it's where your data sheets were.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were broken as all hell, but that's a side note.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the stories were really, really great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I can't actually blend out to read codex.
[SPEAKER_00]: But
[SPEAKER_00]: With that, we'll see you guys next week for part two of our Abid on coverage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably is going to be a part three potentially a part four.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm hoping to give it a part three.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's what that's why it's as a promise he's in every series.
[UNKNOWN]: you