[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings lorecast.
[SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of Tolkien's amazing world, from the very beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're finally entering Lake Town.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this feels like a grand journey at this point because of how slowly and intricately we've been going through all of the contents in the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it feels like something that we knew was going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if this is your first time reading through the Hobbit, you knew they were going to at least get this far in their journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you may not have expected, like most likely the dwarves here, the order of the sequence of events.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they expected to be captured by elves.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they expected to be way laid in a magical forest and to have come across things that would have been basically insurmountable without the help of Gandalf and or Bilbo.
[SPEAKER_01]: And on top of that, I don't think that they expected to have to have conversations with the people of Laketown looking like homeless beggars.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, they manage it pretty well.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I engage with a story like a novel or a movie or even a video game, I try to get in the mind of the author.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then from that perspective, get into the mind of the characters, the way that they would have been looking at
[SPEAKER_01]: individual characters, especially important characters like Thorin, what their expectations were, what their plan was, and we don't really get a detailed explanation of what Thorin expected to happen at this point in the journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know they were headed toward the mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know that Thorin is aware that the people of Lake Town would have known the stories about what had happened and may have been expecting the return of a dwarven king.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is, that is common knowledge, but what we don't know is if Thorn was planning to have to engage with the people of Lake Town before having conquered the mountain and smug and taken his treasure in his kingdom back, my guess is, the Thorn was not.
[SPEAKER_01]: that his expectations were that they would make it this far in the journey through the forest and head directly to the mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: In order to do what they need to do, why involve the people of Lake Town?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why get them even interested in their story?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why bring them into the story at all?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's a lot to lose.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we'll find out as we go through this section and the future sections of the story.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my guess is that Thorne was not expecting to have to deal with these people until he triumphantly returned from Eribor as the King.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in this situation,
[SPEAKER_01]: He's still just a poor traveler.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that leaves him with a tough decision, does he present himself as somebody in need?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or does he present himself as somebody who has come from a time of legend, acting like a king who never left his throne, somebody with confidence, and somebody who can command a situation around him, which he clearly can do, and yet he doesn't actually have any of that authority at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get to it as we go through the story, but I want you to picture Thorin's reactions to the situations that he's in and the way he decides to carry himself less as something that comes from a place of pride, which I'm sure it does, there is some of that for sure, but also as something that was clearly strategic because he needed the situation to go well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, so let's get into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this section begins with Bilbo suggesting they go to Lake Town because what else is there?
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing of course because there's nothing else to suggest.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they decide to leave.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thorin, Philly, Killy, and Bilbo to go to Lake Town.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this does a few things.
[SPEAKER_01]: The setup here is first and foremost that there really is nowhere else to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: They could continue to the mountain, but they are in dire need of help.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're still hungry, they're without food, they're without supplies, they're without medical treatment for those of them who have suffered the most in the river and in the cold and the other things that happened along the journey through the forest.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is made right at the beginning of this section that it is very clear that they have no other choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: And why Thorin, Philly, Killy, and Bilbo?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if you recall, they're the only ones who are well enough to make the journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Thorin, that may even be a question about Thorin, Philly and Killy kind of hop out okay from their barrels.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Thorin is having a rough time.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's an older guy at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it seems like, from this point forward, he is doing what he needs to do in order to be the leader that the party needs in the situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they get to the edge of Lake Town, and of course they come across some guards and we learn some details.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the younger people in the town openly doubted the existence of any dragon in the mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, laughed at the greybeards and gammers, who said that they had seen him flying in the sky in their younger days.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: It has been a very, very long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not only since the dragon took the mountain, but also since the dragon has come out of the mountain at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: He hasn't been seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been sleeping there for years, almost two centuries at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it makes sense that none of the humans in this area would have any real memory of this, only the oldest people and even then,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very unlikely that any of them actually were around a hundred and seventy some years ago when all of this went down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe they have memories of being children, eighty, ninety years ago potentially if some of them are that old and the dragon coming out of the mountain again because maybe that's what he did at the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not a whole lot of fact happening in the stories that they are sharing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, let me be clear about what that means.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying that the facts of the situation, the idea that the dwarves were kicked out of the mountain basically by the dragon and all of that didn't happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I am saying is, their version of those events have played a telephone for generations.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what happens when you play telephone?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, things change.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time you repeat a story, you remember it a little bit differently.
[SPEAKER_01]: The same thing happens psychologically in our own brains, biologically.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time you remember a memory, you are pulling out, think of it as like opening a file, looking at that file.
[SPEAKER_01]: Reve copying that file and rewriting it back to a new sheet of paper sticking it back in a filing cabinet and putting it away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time you run a copy, it changes a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, I'm a big fan of the idea that most people believe in the things that they want the most and fear the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or the middle ground for the way reality tends to play out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something that's inherent to our need to survive, to our actual evolution.
[SPEAKER_01]: When we lived in the wild, it was way more beneficial to worry about getting eaten by a tiger, even if that wasn't something that happened every day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if that was something that was only a threat a few times in a lifetime.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could spend thousands of days of your life never seeing a tiger, but because you are concerned and you are taking precautions, then you are less likely to be killed by one, should you come across one?
[SPEAKER_01]: That is something that you fear, and so you act like it's a pressing matter all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: We often respond in ways about the things that we love the most, or hope for the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, most of the time, the reality of the situation is somewhere in the middle.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what this means is because people want to pin their beliefs on the things they want the most or the things they're most afraid of.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stories evolve.
[SPEAKER_01]: You end up with a story about this dwarven king returning and a flowing river of gold that will benefit the people of Lake Town.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a pretty strong feeling that it's not the dwarves that started that story.
[SPEAKER_01]: But here, it's something that these dwarves can take advantage of.
[SPEAKER_01]: Their astonishment was enormous when Thor and Oakenshield stepped in through the door.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who are you?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you want?
[SPEAKER_01]: They shouted leaping to their feet and groping for weapons.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the first response is, who are these strangers?
[SPEAKER_01]: What is going on here?
[SPEAKER_01]: And notice Thorin's response.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thorin's son of Thrain, son of Thor King, under the mountain exclamation mark.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've even bolded it in my notes here.
[SPEAKER_01]: because this is a line that would distinctly define for these people and the situation moving forward, who this stranger is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And notice he does something here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He lists his fathers, which is common in Middle Earth.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something lots of different people do that else do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Humans do it, dwarves do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he specifically draws the line all the way back to Thor because that is the name they would recognize.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says it in a loud voice so that nobody in the hall will miss out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Tolkien even adds this at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he looks like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like an actual king, in spite of his torn clothes and jraggled hood.
[SPEAKER_01]: In this situation, he is presenting himself as the king of legend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Through his words, through his demeanor, through his posture, through his voice, even though his clothing and the current situation is, he's in, doesn't really look like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's enough to tip the scales.
[SPEAKER_01]: The option here was, instead of doing this, to show up as travelers who were road weary and in need.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what kind of help is he gonna get?
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably not very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a kind person or two would lend them some bread or some coin, or maybe give them a place to sleep for the night.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's not what they need right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thorn announces, I have come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish to see the master of your town.
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, I will speak to only your leader.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am a king.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, he doesn't say the leader in King Park.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's me just kind of explaining what that means.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is interesting, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's doing his best to define for everyone here who he is and why he's important and why he needs their support, but yet he's not asking for anything yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, I skipped over this a little bit ago, so I have to go back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Notice the section where it says that they laughed at the gray beards and the gamers who said they had seen him flying, smug, flying in the sky.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the word gray beard clearly makes sense today.
[SPEAKER_01]: We still use the word gray beard, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And old man has a gray beard.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's a gray beard.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it also shows up in like skyrim.
[SPEAKER_01]: The gray beard's the old guys up in the mountain, if you play Elder Scrolls games.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's also this word gamma.
[SPEAKER_01]: which I find particularly interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I had to look it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I've got some thoughts on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So first of all, grammar is a dialectical English word.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what comes from the research, especially from middle English, meaning an old woman, often a grandmother or a gossipy elder.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the Hobbit, it's used to evoke a rural cozy and somewhat old-fashioned atmosphere consistent with
[SPEAKER_01]: the tone of this environment.
[SPEAKER_01]: This, this lake town situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not a royal city.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a rural location, a town built on a lake.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are commoners.
[SPEAKER_01]: The history of the word, uh, Gamers is interesting too.
[SPEAKER_01]: A Gammer comes from middle-ingred English, uh, Gammary, Gammier, G-A-M-M-E-R-E.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess it depends on if you pronounce the R-E at the end or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It probably comes from,
[SPEAKER_01]: French or Latin, which would be Game, Game, maybe?
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, who knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the contracted form of godmother.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where really where it comes from.
[SPEAKER_01]: Much like gossip came from Godship or Godparent or close friend in these all kind of have similarities.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was used in England from at least the Fourteenth Century and often paired with Gaffer, which meant Godfather, which is another word that Tolkien tends to use, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The Old Gaffer.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a general kind of comment to refer to old men.
[SPEAKER_01]: So old men and old women, gaffers and gammers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I find this particularly interesting because my dad's side of the family, my grandmother was Graham or Grammy.
[SPEAKER_01]: grand mother Gammer there seems to be a real connection there to those words and what also is interesting is that it's my dad's side of the family that is descended from places in the UK I'm sure my in fact my last name is probably Scottish but I know that there's some English in there there's also some other blends of northern Europe
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go back far enough, but there was always this feeling of my family came from some sort of English history of some sort.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this word would make sense that it was something that was common and passed down in the family as a word that you would call your grandmother.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, just wanted to throw that in there, but here, let's get back to Thorin.
[SPEAKER_01]: So at this pronouncement of who he is, some people run outside excited, foolish people expecting the mountain just kind of explode with gold down the river.
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't happen, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we get some questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who are these people?
[SPEAKER_01]: These other people with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he responds, the sons of my father's daughter answered Thorn, Philly and Killy of the race of Duran, meaning dwarves, but also pointing back to Duran being a leader, a king, the father of all dwarves.
[SPEAKER_01]: That sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Mr. Baggins, who has traveled with us out of the West.
[SPEAKER_01]: No further explanation about what a hobbit is, or why Mr. Baggins is so little.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he just kind of leaves it there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we get this reaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you come in peace, lay down your arms, said the captain, which makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: If somebody was traveling, you would expect that they would have something to defend themselves with.
[SPEAKER_01]: And upon entering a situation like this, it was probably polite to disarm themselves as a sign of good intentions.
[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, they don't have anything, or at least most of them don't have anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's explained that their knives had been taken by the wood elves, including Orchrist.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Bilbo still had sting, but it was hidden.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember, he keeps it in his pants.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of hidden away underneath his clothing and inside his trousers, as usually, I believe the way Tolkien phrases it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, they claim, okay, we have no weapons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Plus, we couldn't take all of you on anyway, and that isn't our intent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Take us to your master.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is what we are doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we get this explanation that, well, he's at the feast.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Philly pipes up at this point because he's kind of losing his patience here.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the more reason to take us to him, we are worn and famished after our long road, and we have sick comrades.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, make haste and let us have no more words, or your master may have something to say to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Notice again, the tone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Philly is following Thorin here as coming across as somebody with authority and telling them that there's a dire situation as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to talk to your master, but we also have some sick comrades from our journey.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Captain says, follow me then.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they lead them to the great hall where the master of the town is feasting and thorn pulls the same thing again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am thorn son of thorns on a thorn king under the mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: I return.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's even more reinforced.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a loud voice.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says it from the door before the captain can announce them.
[SPEAKER_01]: He announces himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And includes, I return as if that wasn't enough evidence in and of itself that he was listing out this line of kings that they should have been familiar with.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the way this plays out is so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody leaps to their feet.
[SPEAKER_01]: They all get up.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a big, unexpected announcement.
[SPEAKER_01]: And on top of it, having dwarves show up at your door yelling about being a king has got to be a surprising situation that these people did not expect to have to deal with them currently.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even more surprised than the townspeople are the elves who are there, the raftmen, the elves who were working on the river, who knew that these dwarves were locked up in the dungeon
[SPEAKER_01]: And at this point had been for quite a long period of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now remember, the elves weren't sure who these dwarves actually were or what their goals were.
[SPEAKER_01]: And these elves would have been very surprised that not only were these dwarves now here, but this is the king.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they pipe up.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are prisoners of our king that have escaped wandering vagabond dwarves that could not give any good account of themselves, sneaking through the woods and molesting our people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so now the master is a little confused.
[SPEAKER_01]: He asks if this is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're told that he thought it was far more likely than the return of the king under the mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: that this story of these dwarves being just vagabonds in the wilderness who had been captured by the elves because they were doing terrible things and somehow got out and are now pretending to be somebody else seems more likely than the return of the actual king under the mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, why would that be?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, think about it for a minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems more likely
[SPEAKER_01]: The king under the mountain is a story that's been passed down for generations, a hundred and seventy years.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not a situation that many of them thought would ever actually happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, there are towns people who believed in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably the majority of people just thought, well, these are old stories and old songs, who knows if it'll ever happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: But remember, I was talking about how the things we believe intend to coincide more with the things we fear the most or the things that we hope for the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this situation, the master is not hoping for a return of a king under the mountain, because in this part of the world, there is no one of higher status than him.
[SPEAKER_01]: This would mean competition.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at this point, he's still sizing up the situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thoran responds and says that they were wrongfully way laid by the king, they were journeying back, and I love this line.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Lock Norbar may hinder the homecoming spoken of old, nor is this town in the wood elves realm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I speak to the master of the town for the men of the lake, not to the raffed men of the king.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, this is brilliant because he ties together this idea that the king was foretold, that this was prophecy, that things like locks will not hold back prophecy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Things like being way laid by elves in a jail cell are only trivial inconveniences because of the force and the power behind the prophecy would make sure that these things would play out.
[SPEAKER_01]: That you can't hold back feet or doom.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he again manages to frame the conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not here to talk to these raffmen of the wood elves.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm here to talk to the master of the town.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's doing the best he can in order to frame the situation and to focus the energy of the way things are playing out in a very specific direction.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's taking control of the conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we get a little bit of a glimpse here about the master and what the master is thinking here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's concerned about upsetting the Elvin King.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows that the Elvin King has a lot of power.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's basically their only real trade partner at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: He also is kind of unsure about this whole dwarven king thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't really believe in the prophecy anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he allows things to move forward because it seems like the thing to do in the moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: The people around him were enthralled by this concept, by the situation unfolding right there in front of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the energy of the people, the energy of the reaction of the people of Lake Town who actually move this forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: And have a feeling that's what Thorin was hoping for.
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember, we'll leave sir defined by the things we hope for the most or the things that we fear the most.
[SPEAKER_01]: And these people were hoping that this was true, that
[SPEAKER_01]: gold would flow down the river, and they didn't even care that it wasn't throre himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was his grandson.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was just a minor detail, who cares about that little detail, things seem to be coming true in ways that would benefit them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you hear it in the song.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go through the song.
[SPEAKER_01]: The King beneath the mountains, the King of Carvins Stone, like to Worf's tend to do, the Carv Stone,
[SPEAKER_01]: They're also hearty, kind of like stone.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Lord of silver fountains shall come into his own.
[SPEAKER_01]: His crown shall be upholding, his harp shall be re-strong.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the crown put back on his head, the harp, re-strong, harps tend to be, well, there are instruments anybody can play or learn to play.
[SPEAKER_01]: If your musician you might pick up a harp, but they're often connected to royalty.
[SPEAKER_01]: His halls shall echo golden to songs of your re-sung.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the re-singing of old songs, the halls echo golden, the golden halls will echo.
[SPEAKER_01]: The woods shall wave on mountains and grass beneath the sun.
[SPEAKER_01]: This part, I find a little interesting to bring up woods and grass.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it has something to do with the fact that
[SPEAKER_01]: The desolation of smug extends out from the mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: There used to be forests on the sides of the mountain and grass and it is no longer that way that restoring the king will actually restore nature as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: His wealth shall flow in fountains and the rivers golden run.
[SPEAKER_01]: Notice the rivers running with gold benefiting the town.
[SPEAKER_01]: The streams shall run in gladness.
[SPEAKER_01]: The lakes shall shine and burn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shine and burn.
[SPEAKER_01]: All sorrow fail and sadness at the mountain kings return.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I think what this is trying to say is that the sorrow and the sadness will burn.
[SPEAKER_01]: But doesn't it seem convenient that a lake burning is part of the song?
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't expect the lake to actually burn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Tolkien might have snuck in a little bit of foreshadowing here in a way where he didn't just spoil it for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he does sometimes in the story where he'll say, and then this is going to happen in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: Might be, might be, might just be poetry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's move on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they sang the song, and they were shouting, and then they played music with harps and fiddles.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the master has nothing that he can do, but just kind of follow along with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He gives him his chair.
[SPEAKER_01]: He gives Thorn his chair, sets Philly and Killy beside him, these places of honor for these guests.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're reminded that Bilbo's there too, but nothing in the songs have sung about him, and he doesn't even explain who he is.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, everybody seems to overlook him, almost like he's invisible, or like he is distinct and different, and yet still alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the rest of this section confirms that in subtle ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody is happy to have a place to go to be taking care of.
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest of the dwarves are brought into town and they're being taken care of.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're being mended and after about a week, they start to feel better and the crowds are cheering the dwarves whenever they see them.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, they're kind of waiting for their noses to peek out of the little house that they were given to stay in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that it's, of course, the noses peeking out because, you know, dwarves have big noses.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's another one of those little humorous moments.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we get an explanation about the songs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the songs were old.
[SPEAKER_01]: But some of them were quite new.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the details seem to have changed.
[SPEAKER_01]: The sudden death of the dragon, rich cargos of treasure coming down the river.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that seems to be new additions to the story that they're singing about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, hinging on the hoops, the beliefs, the pendant, the greatest hoops, and the biggest fears.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in a week's time, the dwarves are pretty much mended up.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've had time to rest, they've been fed, and I love the little details about their beards being combed and trimmed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Thor and walking around, like, he's already conquered, smug, and chopped him into a bunch of little pieces.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're told now that the dwarves are feeling better, that their opinions of Bilbo, their true opinions are coming back out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, they hated being stuck in the barrels and they came very close to not making it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were grumpy back then, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now the things are on the up again.
[SPEAKER_01]: They treasure Bilbo.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is a valuable, valuable assets of the party.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has confirmed it time and time again, and they would not be where they are now if it wasn't for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's not really feeling it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's as if the dwarves believe that they've already accomplished what they've come here to do, or it seems highly likely
[SPEAKER_01]: But Bilbo seems to be the only one kind of like a parent among children who realizes the work that still lies ahead, the danger that still confronts them, a dragon and a mountain.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he knows it's his responsibility to deal with this.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why he was brought along to be the burglar.
[SPEAKER_01]: This section ends with an explanation about his shocking cold.
[SPEAKER_01]: For three days, he sneezed and coughed, and he could not go out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even after that, his speeches at Banquets were limited to, thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have been listening to your podcast nearly a year now and been a fan since episode one.
[SPEAKER_03]: I tried to look for a Finnish podcast so I want to make like little rings episodes but no one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I found you and I haven't regret since episode one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Great stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I hope you have a great summer.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a little less where you're in Finland now.
[SPEAKER_03]: And my summer vacation is starting next week.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I hope you have a nice summer and, uh, keep up the good work.
[SPEAKER_03]: Love your podcast, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey there Rob Jones here from the UK.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm absolutely loving the Lord of the Rings Lord cast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Robots has got such a deep knowledge about the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's made it really easy to digest it all.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was a fan of the films first and since this podcast I've now really enjoyed going back right at the beginning and actually getting a good grasp of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thanks for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: My question would be though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Since Sauron could regenerate when he was kind of defeated.
[SPEAKER_02]: on the rings of power.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why can't he regenerate after the ring was made?
[SPEAKER_02]: Since, you know, he was kind of that powerful before the ring was made.
[SPEAKER_02]: So why can't he be just as powerful without the ring after his destroyed?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my question.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was Morgoth for President and Rob Jones leaving messages on voiceline.app-slash-lotr-lorkast.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to leave a message for me or just a comment or a question, then go to voiceline.app-slash-lotr-lorkast.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So first of all, thank you so much Morgoth for President.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, I guess, no, I'm not going to comment on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a fun name.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad that you found the show from Finland.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope I can get to visit Finland sometime.
[SPEAKER_01]: That seems amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been to Norway.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's about the closest I've been to Finland, Amsterdam, Norway, that part of the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be really great to get there sometime, but thank you so much for the kind words, and I'm so glad you're enjoying the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, thank you to Rob.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rob, you have a very good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why if Salron could regenerate after being defeated previously, would he not be able to do that after the ring is destroyed?
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a few things happening here.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very, very well-established in the lore, that characters who imbue their power into other things lose it from themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's noted that Morgoth, at the beginning of time, and the beginning of the story, was head and shoulders above any of the other Valar.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, all of the other Valar together struggled to deal with him until Tulcus, whose specific thing he was good at was wrestling, was able to throw him down.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how powerful he was.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you skip ahead to the end of, say, the first age, and he's imbued so much of his power into the world itself, corrupting elves and men, making dragons, doing all of these terrible things that the world has kind of become his ring, and he has lost status to the point where, uh, manway, upon the, uh, the war of wrath, is surprised to find that he's not nearly
[SPEAKER_01]: as formidable as he previously was, and yet men waste still is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because what he's been doing is been teaching people and not necessarily imbuing himself into creation past the time of the forming of the skies and the mountains and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that plays fourth here as well for Sauron.
[SPEAKER_01]: He functions like the Valar do, but he's a myar, so he's of less power and scale or nobility, any of that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he, in order to create the ring, embues it with a significant portion of his own power.
[SPEAKER_01]: The ring itself is so powerful because part of him is in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So much so that when the ring is destroyed, he can't put himself back together.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, one of the things that Tolkien talks about is how he's not fully defeated.
[SPEAKER_01]: He never fully goes away, but he's reduced to the point where he acts kind of like a shade, a shadow, a ghost, a spirit in the wind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Something that is malevolent that sneaks around in dark places, but will never really reform to the same level that he was before.
[SPEAKER_01]: His power was divided and yet was still tied to the existence of the ring, which was a big threat.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a big risk, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could say that that wouldn't work out so well, and turns out that it didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: It almost worked out for him, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: It worked really well for a period of time, and then not anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, there you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the quick answer to that question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for that question.
[SPEAKER_01]: And thank you to everybody else for listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got to go welcome our newest patrons, and thank our current patrons, all of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So welcome to the second to breakfast club, wonderful name, and Kel.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is from patreon.com slash LOTR, Lorcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for your support and for all of the new people who join each week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So glad that you're here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You keep the show going.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, let's shout out all of our VIP patrons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see if I can get through it without missing up any names.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's find out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Captain Legolas Turner, Cutter Metalworks, Daniel Knight, Weaver, David S, and Divine Madman, Fulcrum, Gerald CFC, Gimlia Break, Ginger Fury, who on is my hero, Jezor, Katie S, Capena, Lori B, Mason Weathertop, Matt, Party Snacks, Philip M, Richard J. Rosie Rose, single-ent looking for antwives, the best-is-boy TJT and two-or-son of who are, thank you so much for your continued support.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, if you'd like to help out in other ways, leave a five-star review on whatever podcast you listen to this on.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you leave a review on Apple in the US, I'll read that on on a future show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have any new ones this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, I can't reveal anything yet, but there are some really cool things in the works.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a meeting with some important individuals next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you might see, I don't know, some stuff come up.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll just say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, some stuff come up on future episodes, so just a little teaser.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not much for teaser, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Things are things are in process.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, this is kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I tried turning some of the episodes into YouTube videos.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we recall me doing that, I don't know, year ago or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in order to make things work on YouTube, they have to be formatted and set up a certain way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got the feeling that especially once the episodes got into like the fourth, fifth, sixth episode that they just didn't perform as well as had hoped on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I stopped making those.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then I realized there are people who put videos on YouTube that about lore stuff for sleeping and people tend to tell me that my voice is very soothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I stitched together the first ten episodes and I put together one long video with this fun little animation of Gandalf and Bilbo sitting on a bench looking at a lake with some trees and it's all very soothing smoking pipes and it's this quick little animation that just loops and it's called six hours of Tolkien lore for sleeping
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to get to sleep and go listen to the first ten episodes again, they're up on the Lord of the Rings lorecast YouTube channel.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can go check that out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what's going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to go do a bonus episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to dig into some more background of what's going on in this part of the world and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And until next time, stay safe out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you find yourself in a difficult situation where you look like, I don't know, a vagabond who's been journeying through a forest and just tell them that you're a door of in king and everything's going to work out fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: See you next time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, The Witcher lorecast, and more, at robotsradio.net.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are links in the show notes, or just search robotsradio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll see you next time.