[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, my patient will shift to dust listeners.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our Dune Deep Dives officially kick off in earnest on Monday, with first a re-release of the Dune background episode Luke and I did a while ago, with a new intro with updated plans for the series.
[SPEAKER_03]: And on Monday, silo's ends and stories ends in the Supercaster Patreon book club will also get an episode recapping a discussing the earliest story in the Duneverse hunting for harkin' ends.
[SPEAKER_03]: While I alternate coverage of the earliest set-dune stories with short stories from Q-Hawies Machine Learning Collection for Supercast and Patreon subscribers, in the public feed, the breakdown of the first book will begin in a week.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we have first coming in just a couple of days, the sort of background, and then we're getting into the book itself in five parts.
[SPEAKER_03]: beginning Monday, July six from then on, expect the next part of the original book break down in the feed every two weeks with the adaptations to follow.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the meantime, please enjoy this bonus episode from my appearances this week on the Dune Minute Podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was there guest all week to discuss five minutes in the middle of Villeneuve's Dune Part II in the deepest of detail.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is actually the second minute in which I made a guest appearance.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hung out with Zach and John for minutes, sixty-one through sixty-five.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we chose this stretch of time during the film, especially because it's a key scene for Lady Jessica.
[SPEAKER_03]: Played by Rebecca Ferguson, a special favorite of this silo-oriented podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I asked to share this minute in particular because it's the most Jessica of the bunch.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the show notes, you'll find a link to the Dune Minute Podcast feed where you can find the rest of those minutes, sixty-one through sixty-five again, it's where I appear, although definitely started the beginning of the movie and they did the first movie too, so lots to catch up on to go way deep into Dune, or look up Dune Minute Podcast in your podcast player of choice.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'll talk to you again on Monday, double if you're a Salah's inner stories in and until then, enjoy this Dune Minute in particular because if you can't discuss politics in religion with the unborn abomination in your womb, who can you discuss these things with?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, and welcome to the Dune Minute podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're placed to dive deep minute by minute into the cinematic adaptation of Frank Herbert's World of Dune.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm one of your host, John.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Zach.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are joined once again by Alicia Brenner from the Laura Hounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing, Alicia?
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, go ahead to be back in the same seat that I was just sitting here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Twenty minutes ago, we just had a prayer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a different day in release land though.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we've come to the hearts of the conversation.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this conversation is, of course, why you guys picked this five minute gap for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the big one of the week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think, you know, we just pick off, pick up right where we left off with the end of yesterday's episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll just go right into it because I'm sure all of us have a lot to talk about.
[SPEAKER_01]: So where we left off Paul tells his mother
[SPEAKER_01]: and by proxy his unborn sister who's fully conscious that he must continue fighting in the north to protect Jessica and in turnalia down there in the south.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a moment of pause that Jessica has here, and she's doing her little mumbling to herself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Almost, you know, like we talked about yesterday with the interpreting and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jessica's response is, she says she can tell when you lie.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Paul's immediate response is then,
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll tell her that's because our mother keeps writing dangerous tales and there's an awkward silence there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jessica does not react to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's kind of like looking around, you know, just saying, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: When she's listening, she's listening to what Aliya, maybe I'm coming to say it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alia Leah she's listening to what her unborn child is saying and the funny is part of this to me is Paul like it's like beat beat waiting waiting then he's like what she's saying now?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?
[SPEAKER_03]: He's he's trying to be hard at us and then he's like no, but wait I can't hear her tell me which is like he really cares wet his already his fetal little sister he really cares what she thinks already
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jessica's response is, she says you're blinded by love, and she reminds you that you must reserve your hand for the most strategic alliance.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's also wondering why you don't believe in who you are.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like we talked about yesterday, this is very much that, you know, Aliah is the religious fanatic of the family.
[SPEAKER_01]: She found Jesus.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jesus is a brother.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the brother of the new pope.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you see in this video?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the new pope from Chicago and they has two brothers and they're just like
[SPEAKER_01]: cool down art down earth one of all my think is a teacher in the other one's just like a IT guy or whatever but there's been a lot of interviews with the Pope's brothers yeah it's such a weird thing to to think about my the thing that I thought was funny is like yeah the day before conclave we were playing words with friends together and and the word all together like sorry
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny that he one of the brothers said that he watched a concave before he went into the concave.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is totally something a normal person would do, which you're like, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched it during, so yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very fantastic movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a great movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we covered it on the lower house, if anyone wants the full breakdown.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will have to check that out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd love to see what you guys had to say about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because as a born and raised Catholic, it was a very interesting movie to watch.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we had a religious study scholar, Anthony was one of the guests speaking at our co-hosts.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, okay, so Alia, I'm gonna go back and forth in her name, and I'm sorry to the people at home who are yelling at me about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Deal with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm allowed to talk about the ending of the movie, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or no, it's a spoiler.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the way that we have always framed this podcast is,
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope that you've watched the movie at least once or twice, because if you're watching the movie at the rate that we're talking about it, that's insane.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fair, fair, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, this whole conversation here, I guess this is what is echoing in Paul's head at the end of the movie when he says, I will marry Eurolog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, all of that knows.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she's clearly the real strategist, I think, of the group too, along with being the more religious person.
[SPEAKER_00]: She seems to know exactly where things need to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, maybe Jessica knows this as well, but she's just, you know, a little bit more mature and not outwardly saying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but she's not as direct as, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a better way of saying unborn abominate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we will see about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Alia says, Paul's blinded by love and you know, knees for his hand for the most strategic alliance.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the second, like part of that phrase, she says, she's also wondering why you don't believe in who you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: That part was said,
[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of been a more jovial manner.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't as heavy as the first part.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was definitely more of like a needleing kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not so serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: That one made me think it was almost Jessica saying that instead of all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could be very wrong there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just like there's a little bit of a difference between the two tones.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, it could be Jessica is, as you said, interpreting.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is also an issue when you're interpreting for someone.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can think of some short films.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's one short film.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember the name.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you see someone interpreting for a woman who comes from a very conservative area.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's trying to say what her husband's been doing to them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then interpreter is just
[SPEAKER_03]: saying in a completely different tone.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so at the end of the day, she just sent back home because that's where they got from the interpreter.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if a Leah cannot impress her will on her mother, then her mother has a lot of leeway with how she conveys what she's saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think it just falls in line with what Jessica wants Paul to understand, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's an instance where they're both in agreement with each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: So at that point, Jessica just kind of takes the reins on the delivery rather than word for word from Alia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: We then move on in the conversation, though, to Paul's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think I was like, yeah, at least you did that set up what you were going to talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is that something completely different?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, was just going to ask if you thought that earlier was right about Paul not believing in himself or what does that mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think she's absolutely right right now because he kind of goes back to what I said at the end of yesterday's episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has had a shift in his demeanor and in believing that he is there Messiah, he clearly told Johnny that he's not the Messiah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he wants it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I truly think he's being earnest when he says, I don't want it right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But don't.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not like that at least.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, not like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think I think he, she is correct there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He comes back around to it eventually.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think
[SPEAKER_00]: something that happens in future minutes, another old friend getting introduced back into the picture, kicks him in the other direction and kind of gets him course corrects him, I guess, would be a good way of saying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in this moment, yeah, I think she is right.
[SPEAKER_00]: John, opinions.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're, I think we're in the same understanding here, not to, not to like, cop out on anything that I would have to contribute, but I think gurney's introduction, spoilers, or reintroduction is, and then the things that gurney feeds Paul, you know, with the sweeten up things that he whispers to Paul or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: really really radicalizes Paul towards vengeance for more than just getting to the emperor but like true vengeance for his family and his father.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know if if the
[SPEAKER_00]: opportunity, it presented itself for Paul to just live a quote unquote normal for him in life.
[SPEAKER_00]: As he is right now, I think he would take it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, as he said, it's a moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's been his entire life.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's been honed as a weapon of every, like all of the different disciplines combined.
[SPEAKER_03]: So could he ever be someone who just like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Was one of the people?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was raised to not be that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: True.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll never know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because early on in part one, like in the conversation between Paul and Leito and the graveyard, Paul's still like, I don't want to hear this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then just a few minutes ago, when we wrapped up with David, Father, I found my way.
[SPEAKER_01]: his way seemingly being, you know, out in the desert with the fremen living his, you know, fadike in life or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like that seems to be what Paul wants.
[SPEAKER_03]: He went to study abroad and went native.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of what I was about to get.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, we also have to keep in mind we're talking about a fifteen year old here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, I mean, you point in the direct, you know, sentiment that direction and it's like, this is my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is everything for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: You point a fifteen sixteen-year-old man in the direction of a pretty girl that shows him any attention whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's done.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think they've been aged up a bit for the movie, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think he's the fifteen sixteen, you know, in the in the books, but he's definitely they also don't explicitly say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, and then there's the whole weird thing with the movie not having a time jump.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like,
[SPEAKER_01]: What age is Paul?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's still clearly very young, but I wouldn't say, you know, the fifteen sixteen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess there's got to be a time jump for part three for Anna Taylor Joy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be interesting to see, we talked about this on some unreleased episodes as of the time of this recording.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's going to be interesting to see how they manage that time jump and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because Timothy Chalme and Anitaila Jor are like relative, they're about the same age.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, am I wrong?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she's older than you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, does this spice slow aging?
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be that's going to be interesting to see how they handle that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I trust I trust the need.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, but like to handle it in a
[SPEAKER_01]: decent way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's going to be the way that you or I want them to handle it, but we'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like principal photography starts.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this month.
[SPEAKER_01]: So nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't even know where to start to speculate on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how they're going to handle it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, we'll get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll get there in four years when we, you know, minute by minute, we'll get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh God.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all year slash Jessica, I'll just have AJ in my notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: AJ?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, AJ.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess we're at PB&J again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: To catch you up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So PB&J is Paul Baby Jessica.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a name for when Paul and Chani are together, which is Chal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we come up with these.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm tonight.
[SPEAKER_03]: PB&J, I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Chal.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a convinced John.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we can go to Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Paul says that he knows that he matters to these people and that he believes he's making a difference in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he adds that we're nearly at the gates of the city.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I agree with him on a statement when he says he's making a difference in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a good one, but he is making a difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's making an effect on the world here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess that last line, we're nearly at the gate to the city, is in reference to they're continuing to raid and
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess I take back territory trying to reach.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's as still our asked.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what would you do in North?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would go north.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I will go north.
[SPEAKER_01]: As Paul returned in asking, still got what would you do?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would go north.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I will go north with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So see, man, you have more space in your head for this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: More ability to remember these things than I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're learning how to fly planes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of weather talking here right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, do you watch the rehearsal?
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know what you're talking.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have not seen it, but I know exactly what you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I find it hilarious.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Nathan Fielder.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got to watch it and talk to John and I about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: the other judge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's been a crazy anyone who doesn't know Nathan Field is showing HBO, it's called the rehearsal, it's like reality and it's this season it's about airline safety and it's wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, when I was Nathan Fielder can give me to watch any show, just with that weird face that he does.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I, so to bring it into reality, when I was, I took my first like actual in the plane flight yesterday.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's he's kind of right like me and the guy that we're flying like we talked a little bit while we're up there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But while we were flying other than just like directions and like directives.
[SPEAKER_00]: There wasn't a lot of chit chat and getting to know each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe if you had a giant puppet mama to relive the life of Sully-Sully-Sully-Faker.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, back to Damian.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where my brain is at.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're going north.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are making their way north and they are almost to the city.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jessica's response is, that's not what she means.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Paul's just like, yeah, I know what all he means.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not that directly, but that was the definitely the tone from that conversation was sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I fucking know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't want to agree with her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jessica.
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of gas lights, Paul a little bit, and like, well, don't you think that I feel the way to the prophecy, too?
[SPEAKER_00]: And important to note, I think this is Jessica, not all yet, looking.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is, this is again, Jessica now is not interpreting.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is actually her, because she's like turns to look at him, and like there's differences of facial expressions and everything here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: But okay, so she says, do not think I, you don't think I feel it also, and he says it's not a prophecy, but
[SPEAKER_03]: My thinking about this is it's more complex than it is or isn't a prophecy because regardless of whether there's many Jesuit machinations behind it, it is something that was foretold when it's coming true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, it is quite literally a prophecy because it was something that was prophesized, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, it was, it is part of the Fromen culture as a prophecy, but I think Paul just views it as a lie that his mom's organization told these people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that's, yeah, that's the distinction that he's trying to make.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yet it is happening, as I said.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a good lie.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in his mind, it's still a lie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say it's a good lie.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been an effective lie.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's vague enough to where you can fit a lot of different circumstances and you know, template match to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Paul even, you know, calls, calls this out and calls out the Benny Dessert as a whole and just says, you know, what your people did to this plan or to this world is heartbreaking.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's very just like even though like you weren't the one to start this you're not helping to make it better You what you were doing is heartbreaking and this is really fucked up
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, which kind of, I don't know, we talked a little bit about how Paul has shifted his mindset since, you know, he's been out in the desert with the fadican and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of seems a little white savior to me, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I also think this story, it is something that is part of their story now, because it's been part of their culture for a long time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it's also like, if we look at the language they speak, the Jakobsa.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now they haven't, I don't think they've defined it as such in the movies, but in the books, we know that this is based on a real, at least a rumor of a secret hunting language from the Caucasian mountains in our real world.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Frank Herbert love to do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Take stuff from like our ancient or older history and like say that that propagated through the galaxy thousands of years from now.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Jacob says something obviously we see the Freiman speaking it.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Benny Jeser it a speak it and it's also an old like war language of of
[SPEAKER_03]: the atradies clan of Paul's people so and in this whole mission era protective thing is sort of in a similar way something that has decimated through the through the galaxy but that doesn't mean that those who have incorporated the language or the prophecies or whatever that's they they've made it their own you know yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, for better or for worse, it is a part of their culture.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was initially intended for the mini-jazzers to be able to ingratiate themselves and in a bad way, I think ingratiate has a positive connotation, but just to inject themselves into a culture and just
[SPEAKER_00]: manipulate them if they need to so that was the point of all those those prophecies that they they spread or you know just the religious influence that they the organization would exert onto some like culture
[SPEAKER_00]: So whether it, you know, started from a place of control.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, control, manipulations, you know, bad intentions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's kind of whether it started from a place of bad intentions or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is part of a, it was a foundational part of their culture at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe he has to understand that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has to recognize that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if like the Ben and Jeser Ed hadn't implanted this specific story, you know, humans in general, we seek meaning.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that often means that we, we build religions around what where we see meaning, you know, to make sense of everything to us.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and they point out in the film, the harsh of the place, sometimes maybe more extreme the ideas, because you have to be extreme to survive.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, if it had not been this specific story implanted, would their culture have been significantly different, or would they have found another thing to build their religion around?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because their culture is shaped by the planet, not by the Ben and Jesuit story, it's just
[SPEAKER_03]: and aspect of it, but there's still spice eaters who dress a certain way because of the climate they're in, who live a certain way because they have to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the still suit doesn't exist because of a Benny Jesuit lie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I think it's safe to say that something would have popped up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think the Benny Jesuit were smart enough to get their first and realize that there was no, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: pre-existing religious dominance and they just kind of snuck in and did missionary productivity of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or it was a religion that they couldn't easily influence.
[SPEAKER_00]: No matter how expansive it was when they started, it was just something that they could influence.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they said they took to it more than maybe some other places.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fruman didn't always have harsh lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they, I think if you go back in the, um, in the history like,
[SPEAKER_00]: They lived on planets that were like paradise planets throughout their history.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was that the ups and downs is what really shaped their their religions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say that they didn't always have harsh lives because I mean, the whole thing with the Zen SUNY migration was that it was constant, but there were certainly like some moments of periods.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, levity compared to Iraqis being the shit holding it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, but they still have periods of levity.
[SPEAKER_03]: They have, you know, they have their sea changouts and their tent naming ceremonies.
[SPEAKER_03]: And their spades towards these sorges.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the middle of this, Paul says they deserve to be led by one of their own.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think Paul ever qualifies or ever can qualify as one of their own?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that depends on who you ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think Stillgar would say yes to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Johnny would say no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I mean with in movie movie characters.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, with with what we just did last week with the writing of Shai Hulu, I think was like the last like cultural touchstone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because Paul has, you know, killed a man with a Chris knife.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has
[SPEAKER_01]: taken on a fiddaken war name and a secret name uh... he has ridden shitholude like he's he's hitting all the checkboxes but
[SPEAKER_01]: to what Chinese says in the movie, you would be fremen in name only.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think to some of these people, you're not born into it, so you're not inherently fremen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you never will be fremen no matter what you do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's a bit of a cultural divide there, but still Garcia's all of the cultural touchstones and the religious touchstones that Paul's heading, and he's like, yeah, I mean, you might as well be.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it's a complex question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I say this is someone who has immigrated to another country myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think we likened it to like marrying into a religion or something like that, reconverting into a religious letter in life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because we know we have a few friends that have converted to various religions and stuff and like
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, he's like, yeah, while you, while you would consider yourself off that religion, like if that religion is tied to any kind of ethnicity, then you, you know, you wouldn't be considered the, the ethnic part of that religion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, but I think Stogar would say yes to that and Charlie would say no.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Movie Chani would say no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Book Chani, different story.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I have to say when you know it was talking about in the last episode about how I thought they did Chani and Eurolon better in the movie versus the books in terms of fleshing them out more.
[SPEAKER_03]: My biggest complaint about doom part one was how Jessica was handled.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now that I'm reading Jessica's side by side with the movie, I'm actually like, you know what, I think part two is better than Jessica in the books at this point.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think she, I think her relationship with Paul, it's still
[SPEAKER_03]: on edge, but it feels less, I don't know, it gets annoying to me how kind of almost mean he is thinking about his mom a lot at certain points and also how she seems so uncertain.
[SPEAKER_03]: And here you can see certain moments where the uncertainty comes through, I think in the next minute, we'll talk about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But overall, she projects more confidence at which is what I was missing from doing part one.
[SPEAKER_00]: a million percent agree that was I I think we said this like they did her dirty in the first movie because she was just like this stressed out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah the entire time I mean that that that was our running joke from part one was that she was stress echo.
[SPEAKER_01]: And.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah our our lady of perpetual anxiety.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah it's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: she is a much more fleshed out character at least like the attitude and the dialogue that we're getting out of her now much closer line up to the confident person that Jessica in the books is and they're giving Rebecca Ferguson more to do I felt like she was a little wasted in the first and it's it's only going to get better like Rebecca Ferguson's
[SPEAKER_01]: acting only gets better from here on out too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Spoilers for the end, but like the the the look that Jessica gives guys Helen Moheim at the end is it's so fucking good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, I just love the costume design by Jacqueline West.
[SPEAKER_03]: The face tattoos, it's such a cool concept.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, she didn't have to tatt up her whole face, but, you know, she's outside her lady.
[SPEAKER_03]: She needs to bring the vibes extra hard.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like the linear fear across my face.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really glad to that they kept that consistent between part one and part two because we only had a very brief glimpse of Jessica with you know covered in face tattoos and everything in part one but like it is still you know so consistent so one to one and yeah the ever
[SPEAKER_01]: complex, Reverend Mother, Garb only gets more and more intense from here on out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, big fan of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're all like all three of us here in this virtual room.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are Rebecca Ferguson's dance.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I was first introduced to her in silo.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I've not seen the mission impossible movies that she was in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still haven't seen them, which is, I'm working on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm working on, I'm going through them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think, yeah, I think Silo was the first thing that I saw her in.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the best of her though.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's honestly in his though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she's one of the worst.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is second best for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: For her.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, this fantastic actors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very much looking forward to talking about the later minutes with her because
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot, there's a lot to talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the last little bit of this minute, we have half of a sentence to get through left here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so after Paul says what you did, what your people did to this world is heartbreaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing that I didn't mention for Paul's thing, this really felt like Chinese words coming through Paul.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a lot of of Ali's words coming through Jessica a second ago, and now we're getting Chinese words coming through Paul.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Chinese and Ali a fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, it'll be interesting to see that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to fight the baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so Jessica punches back at this point and she goes, we gave them something too.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been really good about having minutes and at the end of sentences, maybe not the end of conversations, but the end of sentences lately.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we gave them something to
[SPEAKER_03]: put on their burgers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Find out on tomorrow's episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: We gave them something to look forward to.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess yesterday I don't have much to talk about on the books here and this is
[SPEAKER_00]: not a book heavy week at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a lot to talk about just like interpersonal interactions and we will, but nothing directly to pull from and to compare to in the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got plenty from art and soul for tomorrow, but we will get to that when we get to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: At least anything else on your notes for this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I just want to say that David's complaints about the Diction critique is starting to leak into my own thoughts on this rewatch.
[SPEAKER_03]: David, you're infecting my enjoyment of this movie with your Diction critique.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not that they like, I think that they need to speak with an RP British accent or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's that I want consistency within each group.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I mean, that's the actors though.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's bringing themself to the role.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: We try to ignore it when we can, but there's this part.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where we can't do.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we'll take us out now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: As always, you can find us online.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are on BlueSky at doominit.com and you can email doominit.gmail.com if you'd like to get in touch with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: The lower hounds, we will have all of y'all's socials and everything down in the podcast description and details and Alicia yesterday you talked about.
[SPEAKER_01]: How y'all are diving in on the Walship Dust side of things into the book?
[SPEAKER_01]: Those episodes should be coming out around the same time that these will be, I think, if we have our schedules right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll definitely make sure to link to everything Lord Hounds and everything that you're doing as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back tomorrow with another episode of The Dune Minute and we'll see you then.
[SPEAKER_01]: See you.