[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the lorehounds your guides to alien megafauna mating.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm John and if I'm not looking at you it's because I'm monitoring the perimeter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm Alicia and after watching complimentary species episode seven of Apple TV Apple TV plus is murder but I just want to say we can talk about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can talk about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you all keep saying that?
[SPEAKER_01]: that is true though like if you ever like walked into a friend group that is already established and they have some inside joke you're like why are you saying that
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like Garatha and often feels like that with his group too though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and now we know why.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I thought that was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we'll get to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll get to it spoilers for the first seven episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've not watched anything ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've done some of the reading.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the first novella each and you a little bit beyond that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But no spoilers for anything that hasn't happened in the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, I think we're pretty far off the beaten path of the books at this point anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: by but I think going back to the base we're getting back to it there's only three episodes left um but yeah indeed like there's a lot of stuff that doesn't happen in the books that they've added to the show which I think makes sense yeah absolutely well you want to give us the details and then your heart take
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, so this complimentary species episode seven was back to twenty three minutes again, but I thought we'll use again written by Paul and Chris Whites, directed by Rosanne Leang who, by the way, directed the spirit realm episodes of the live action, the avatar of the last airbender, which I personally like that season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know not everyone feels the same, but I really enjoyed it and those episodes in particular.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I have not gone back to a box that I missed it, so I'll take your word.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I, I quite like this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was, I wrote here a new favorite so far.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I don't know if it's if I like it even better than last week, although it may be especially the first time I watched it, made me laugh even more.
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of this week's?
[SPEAKER_01]: I liked it a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I still prefer last week if I'm going to pick a favorite episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I did really like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the way that they flush out Garof and especially.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I understand him a lot more now and I understand why he's so
[SPEAKER_01]: just salty about everything that preservation talks to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, he's like, I know the dark side of all this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a hard way to be, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is someone who has overcome severe depression and severe addiction.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's always going to be a part of your calculus going forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's really interesting in this episode how, you know, we have the characters really from the fact that Murderbot exploded, Libby, he's had the last episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even though they are the most suspicious, Grothin and Pinley,
[SPEAKER_00]: when it comes down to it, you know, where the others are like, how could they have killed Libby?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure she was good inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are the two who are the first like, well, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: She seems like she was ready to get rid of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they kind of in a way, although they're the most suspicious of murderbot, they also understand him the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the details of the dynamics of this team like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of that, a lot of that is added from the book, especially with the pinley perspective.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think there would have been a debate, maybe if a Libby or Libby would not have shot Karathan's leg already.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the fact that she did, I think, I think shows that she was serious, and she would have killed them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, there is a difference between shooting someone in the knee and shooting them in the head.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you want to gamble on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would have been less quick to kill personally, but I also, um, not, I didn't see anything from her that made me think that she, um, had that she was coming around.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not going to advocate for her redemption the way I did for zero from end or for instance.
[SPEAKER_00]: especially.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't advocating for cereal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe I have different scales of mercy.
[SPEAKER_00]: But oh, I was thinking about like because I asked in the last episode when she, you know, was weirdly holding barred washes hand and kissed it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was thinking what was that about?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I realized I think it was because barred wash was just handling those mineral samples.
[SPEAKER_00]: that Libby kept asking questions about and so she was like trying to pick up some traces to test somewhere I think that's my assumption so I wonder it goes back to my question of like how much information was she able to send back before her head got exploded yeah I guess we'll find out soon hmm
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I'm a big fan of this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd say let's go right into the discussion because there's there's plenty of things I want to say, but I don't want to Trouble it all together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I, I did really love the cold open also a sweet and bitter dinner.
[SPEAKER_00]: One month before the show's current timeline, the preservation of oxygen were out to dinner at port commerce to kick off their trip.
[SPEAKER_00]: With, we open with them playing a game of sweet and bitter.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Bard Wasis' turn and she tells a story of how pinley came to support her at a presentation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Bard Wasis misinterpreted it at a lecture, I should say.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Bard Wasis misinterpreted it and made a pass at pinley.
[SPEAKER_00]: water under the bridge, Pinley says, or I think it's, we can talk about this, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the table turns to pressure and growth into play.
[SPEAKER_00]: He makes his about Mensa.
[SPEAKER_00]: He tells a story of how he was sent as a spy by the corporation rim addicted and close to ending his own life.
[SPEAKER_00]: How he confided all this in Mensa who was supposed to be his target.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she forgave him and took him in and gave him a new life anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: but he can't say anything negative about her in front of the crowd and he retreats the edge of the restaurant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mensa follows and they have a private conversation where the girl often tells her his only critique is that she may be too trusting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So why did you like this scene so much?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, one, I loved when he goes, well, maybe I'm a little naive too, because that reminded me so much of Tolkien's writing about his son saying, like, he's a, he's a cramudgeon and he's so stubborn and he's exactly like me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, it's so true, like we see the flaws that are in us more acutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I really liked that, you know, Garathan, I mean, when he confessed to Mensa, I mean, that's arguably a naive move, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: When he had confessed that he was trying to target her, like he could have just been throwing right in prison.
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, sometimes you have to submit a little bit to a surrender, I should say, you know, it's like a side-r.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to surrender to the power to control it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although it likes ID and sometimes you have to wrestle it to the ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what growth I would say, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I really love that part.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a great character moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really like seeing that these people are allies, but they're not besties.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't mean like they are they are not
[SPEAKER_01]: fully together and that makes sense when later they're debating what to do with secular if they can trust secular and they can't agree and and there's not a they they they do have a baseline of trust and this scene helps set that baseline but they're not fully they don't fully know each other's history yet hmm yeah um i wonder
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess even if what is it, what point are you such besties that you don't argue over details like that when things get tense?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, you know, at this point, we've been told that he was on preservation alliance almost five years.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it seems like he is still clearly learning the social rituals.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it makes me wonder how long, I mean, there's
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all, they're a crew of friends, but you know, there's romantic complications, obviously they're in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's independently by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not get that from, from, from barred wash at all, but I guess barred wash just felt supported in that moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, how long have the rest of them known each other?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how long has preservation alliance existed?
[SPEAKER_00]: Has it been around for generations already?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is it newer than that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even think about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be a very new thing in corporation corporation.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is it?
[SPEAKER_01]: What are they called?
[SPEAKER_00]: The corporation rim corporation rim.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the corporation rim is like, yeah, let's get rid of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: What we can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, we find out corporation rim wants to was sending girauthent to get some dirt for blackmail and the plan is to keep non-corporation rim entities divided.
[SPEAKER_00]: So basically, they don't want the rest of the galaxy to team up against corporation rim.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's probably right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they can dominate.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't like to share power once they, you know, who would have thought capitalism?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Power hungry governments.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so corporation rim got Garatha and addicted to exotic substances, uh, to force him to spy, which is funny because it's reminding me of we were just talking about French connection too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, um, what addiction in your life do you think that corporation rim could use to control you like coffee or TV or something else?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I've shown that I can
[SPEAKER_01]: I can defeat coffee because I didn't have coffee for like six months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I cycle through reductions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I actually, I think I'm honestly resilient because I cycle through addiction.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I was interested in that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, maybe for me would be like internet or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like scrolling endless scrolling.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good addiction.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're just, well, for me, it's, I'm trying to be better about the endless scrolling, but it's just the access to information.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if I did not have, if I was not able to look up information on the spot all the time, that's something I've grown to use to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's, uh, even, you know, I don't, I don't use AI very often, but like when I do use it, I'm like, oh, but this was so easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I need it to become more, uh, more environmentally friendly before I dive into this more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just for like gathering information, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't, I don't like using it for like generative stuff, but like gathering information.
[SPEAKER_01]: Boy, it is, it is getting better than Google quite fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, but you have to double check and triple check everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So have you ever been, if you're in a restaurant with your friends from, I don't know, from college or whatever, would you be the table that everyone was staring at or would you be the table giving the annoying table side I?
[SPEAKER_01]: Would I be, I'd probably be the side I.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you were with your college friends or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It depends how much alcohol we've had.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: How about you?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've definitely been the table that we like I think of one dinner in particular when we there was a group of us like I don't know like ten or twelve of us or something and we went to this Indonesian restaurant that I like and they put us in the back room which made sense in terms of you know having a big table but then the it was like this echo chamber and the other tables in the room at one point started yelling at us
[SPEAKER_00]: because we were talking to that day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I like men's point that bad stuff is also part of the good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do have questions about this bitter and sweet game though because we see when Bard was just talking to Pinley, Bard was just saying like the sweet is thank you for coming to support me and the bitter is about something that Bard was did because Bard was just the was the one who was like
[SPEAKER_00]: and misinterpreting things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when it's Garathens' term, he says already something bitter that he did the whole spying thing, like says some drops of real knowledge, and then they still want him to say something mean about Mensa?
[SPEAKER_00]: Barred Washington, say anything mean about Pinley.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true, and so I don't understand the rules of this game, but I think they just need a plot to vice there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they should have just written criticism about, of capinley and do it so that it made a little more sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, okay, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's the backhanded compliment game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I did notice that by the way, when when Byrd Rogers like I should, I should not have read things the wrong way and said what I said to you, Japan League or often looked a little taken aback.
[SPEAKER_00]: It made me wonder if he was thinking about whether or not to share his feelings with Mensa.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess he does eventually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he seems like he's queueing it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I misheard you the first time I cut out for a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought you were talking about Rati with the other two.
[SPEAKER_01]: So no, I don't know anything about even even from the books.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know anything about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was not an unintentional spoiler, everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, yeah, this, this him, assuming to have feelings for men says is new for at least as far as we've read.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we can see where it comes from after the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I almost hope it's not romantic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, first of all, men said, does not need another husband in her life.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I just need another partner in her life.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I kind of, I think we have not enough, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: male female platonic buddy cop that he's I don't yeah, but I don't think that this one is platonic on his side.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm I think it is on her side.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it is on his side because of the whole acting jealous about like do you have feelings for sec unit like what to I have what but shows have gotten past that in the past right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm thinking of shit's creek.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you're your church it's creek fan yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, like Stevie and David, I think that's a good example of like, all right, there was some romantic tension, but we moved past it and the characters work better as Potonic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that would be fun in this case.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I'm with that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you ready for the emergency event?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, set us up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Picking up in the aftermath of the Libby head exploding.
[SPEAKER_01]: a now-mended murderbot rushes the preservation ox team to pack the hopper so they can get out of there before the BBs people arrive.
[SPEAKER_01]: They take the hopper to a patch of woods to hide.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like pinley's like okay who died and made the sec unit our boss and rats he's like I think she did and points to points to the BBs corpse and murderbot says what I covered it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we see, they flinched from murderbot, they realized everyone realizes in this episode like, oh shit, murderbot is always listening to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and also that like murderbot as much as the guns work on the animals, they work on us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think, you know, thinking later in the episode, Mensa says it's easier for everyone if they think of you as a person who wants to help the way I do and that was sweet.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also think in some ways when it comes to this buying stuff, it's easier to think of murder about as not a person.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, you think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I'm less uneasy thinking about my software listening in all the time, which I know is happening versus if there's like a human there listening in the whole time because I trust that my software doesn't actually care.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I always laugh when people are like, I won't own an Alexa.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to own an echo device because it's always listening to me and they are holding their smartphone while they're saying that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: with Syrian able to be always listening to you know and like yeah apple so far has been better than Amazon on like data sharing but at the same time like that could change of any time you know what I mean like these places they don't ever last like that yeah yeah yep
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, I understand, you know, men says like, you know, it's time for a softer approach and, um, murder, or sorry, murderbot realizes it's time for a softer approach and puts down the helmets and notices that they respond better when they see murderbot's human face and uses the word, please, but then like, unless you feel like dying and rush pace and shakes is, oh my god, Rotty was making me laugh so much this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, the way that he almost gets it or it almost gets it and then just falls flat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, from them, not for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean from them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a back drug.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Rathin.
[SPEAKER_00]: The animosity between murder bout and girathin is still there and I'm kind of eating it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But girathin is totally onto murderbots, quote unquote, monitoring the perimeter.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it always says when it doesn't want to deal with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But question about girauthent.
[SPEAKER_00]: So murder about had time to repair itself and girauthent didn't have time for more healing girauthent was just like sitting around.
[SPEAKER_00]: The girauthent should be sitting in the med bay the entire time and putting on fresh clothing like why we're not pre-treating this situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our launch was even like, get back in the midway.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Murderbot was saying it all along and nobody listens to murderbot.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've learned that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nobody listens to murderbot about about anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're saying what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Murderbot had said earlier in the episode, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: How Gothen is like, oh, your temperatures elevated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, but this is after they left when I was too late.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, they did nothing for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I guess because Broadway says I have more time in the Med Bay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess girl often did some time in the Med Bay, but like, girl often should be sitting in the Med Bay until the second they have to leave in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So do you think, um, do you think it's just like an infection of the woman, maybe?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, although that would, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's still like collapsing time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess maybe the bullets still in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if what kind of bullet it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I'm not in the for organics, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it doesn't pierce.
[SPEAKER_01]: It won't impact anything but organic material.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that would what Libby said.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't say her name seriously.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a beautiful name.
[SPEAKER_01]: This like terrible character, like this person who's doing terrible things has the most ridiculous thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's hilarious.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: We learned that the better tech units can mess with murderbots has a more primitive risk assessment module in comparison to them, so that'll come into play later.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I do have just some little questions like barred watches upset about leaving data behind.
[SPEAKER_00]: But why would they not upload their data to a private drive and then erase that shit from humbling or hub system, whatever it's called?
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there's like, all right, I'm headcounting this, but maybe there's like a, I vlog on the system, like you, like a final payment is due when you leave and you can't export the data without the corporations.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's a read only.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll go with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and, and, uh, roti, what were your feelings about roti this episode?
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, he went from being one of my favorites to being kind of a played out tune of like, all right guy, you are just awkwarding it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you don't know how to interact with him.
[UNKNOWN]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although he does, he kind of like helps with the mending later on, but he's still the one who's like trying hardest to make friends with murderbot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have here in the notes, Mensa doesn't have to try.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Mensa's definitely goes with friends with murderbobbots because Mensa just naturally is and Ronti's like, we're friends, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're friends, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's trying to make murder about seamless scary to the other people, but is clearly scared himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's pretending that's not the case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that interaction when murder about says you would all be dead if I wanted to kill you.
[SPEAKER_00]: The actor playing Rotty.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with him for anything else, but he's doing brilliantly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the way he says cool without moving a single muscle on his face and it's like frozen in this smile, but then his eyes are like collapsing in fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, it makes me laugh so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Physical comedy is fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, just like I appreciate actors who can do interesting things, but their faces like that to show complex emotional reactions to things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, do you think it has any regret for killing the baby?
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't know, it didn't use that word exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: We could read it into the text.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's tried.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other, he's head-cannoning murderbots motivations.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And who among us is in guilty of head-cannoning?
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: These people are empathy machines, and you have to ask yourself, in what situations is that a strength, and in what situations is that put them in a lot of danger?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think LeBee, that put them in a lot of danger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and that's why I tend to gravitate more towards the more empathetic characters, which is why you're often impending or kind of my least favorite of the Garathens growing on me.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is partly also the David Desmonke and of it all, but yeah, they're not wrong at times too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think this is part of my world view as I've become an old man has been to realize that like empathy is a strength, but
[SPEAKER_01]: In a world where not everybody is practicing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I say practicing because I do think it's a muscle you have to flex.
[SPEAKER_01]: In a world that not everybody is practicing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You do need both to have an eye on people's motivations when they're not being empathetic and perhaps have a friend or two that is in the McBeth style like seeing people for their bad intentions because they feel less empathy perhaps.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but to add to that it is true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say through also this is something you have that's when studied in psychology.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is true that we tend to remember the negative things more and it will make us more suspicious, but overall people will
[SPEAKER_00]: When you give people the benefit of the doubt when you give people second chances that generally leads to better outcomes for the group than if you are immediately revered to suspicion and punishment.
[SPEAKER_00]: The carrot works much better than the stick.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, fair enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that that does work in a lot of cases and then, but you know, and then somebody who insits and then everyone needs to.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you need to set boundaries, you should set boundaries.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not bringing back the last of us apology debate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I definitely didn't hate it as much as you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, I'm talking about the, um, the apology.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the apology.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, right, right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gotcha.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, you want to take a break?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: see on the other side.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you bring us to the hopper, Alicia?
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, hopper hideout time.
[SPEAKER_00]: In their new hiding spot, the team struggles with their growing murder-bought trust issues while Geroth and his health continues its downturn after getting shot in the knee by Le BB.
[SPEAKER_00]: And two of the local megafauna turned their ship into a squeaky mattress, leaving a couple clutches of eggs glued to the side of the ship.
[SPEAKER_00]: Finally, Rati and Mensa forced the team except Grath and who opts out to talk it out with Murderbot, who is getting really uncomfortable with all the attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: But just as it seems, they're rebuilding the bridge of trust, one of those advanced, secunits in black attack the group.
[SPEAKER_00]: using its ability to mask itself from murder bots threat assessment module.
[SPEAKER_00]: The enemy's sec unit punches through and then explodes one of the egg bundles and mama or papa.
[SPEAKER_00]: Megafana monster comes back to chomp the second unit in half.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take the other egg sex and go.
[SPEAKER_00]: The team has survived to these encounters, but they need to get girauthent medical help as he's now collapsed.
[SPEAKER_00]: They insist they're going back to the base even if it's crawling with hostiles.
[SPEAKER_00]: and murderbot reluctantly goes with them, the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, well, what did you think about, this was basically half the episode, a lot happened, which you think about these series of encounters any favorite parts?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was gross, but I did think it was hilarious when they were like, they're not fighting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're the other F word.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, if reminded me of when I was in Boy Scout campus a child and two squirrels found the snacks that we had in the middle of the tent that was an open tent like it was it was summer so we kept the tent open and we weren't sure what they were doing exactly and we were we were we were we were not happy about that It was it was it was a repeat experience of at least the squirrels couldn't kill me
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or break your room.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really, like, I'm very curious.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'm more like a rata in this, you know, where a rata is the curious by a space biologist.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, this is all very exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to study these gooey execs with squiggling things inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like to murder bots.
[SPEAKER_00]: Frankly, I didn't find it anymore revolting than what the humans do to each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, I mean, if you don't have any sex drive and you have no genitals even to hypothetically have a sex drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it would be a pretty gross thing to think about, wouldn't it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I love the asexual representation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not me, but I like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Murderbot is who murderbot is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And definitely, and definitely has some baggage about being viewed as a sex bot as we heard again this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, why can't we stare at you?
[SPEAKER_00]: I am not a sex bot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's not what that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that seems to be coming from somewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that's coming from what it's seen on the entertainment feeds or some repressed experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dr. Alicia is like, tell me more about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the BB was definitely triggering that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it didn't help to have the kiss.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, as far as the megaphone amongst her sex, I thought that I am like a rod of very intrigued by the planet and the animals that live there, they look like two completely different species.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just want to know about this whole reproduction cycle now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that lick of the window, uh, when the second one came up and just like, licked this, who slimy goo all over the window?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did not like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did not like the exit all that bothered me a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want, I don't want monster eggs on my ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I guess I guess murderbot was wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: They should have left the eggs because it'd be their place protected.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that made sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it made sense that it was, you know, they were attracted to the heat from the engines.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, all of this, this is really science fiction, the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's grounded in science, everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's science fiction, but it's grounded in science.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really more like hard sci-fi than in Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Dr. Ho, of course, which is, I star wars is more hard sci-fi than Dr. Ho.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Dr. Ho, it depends on the writer of the era, because sometimes they're like very meticulous about like being close to like the theories, and then sometimes they're just like, I don't know, the paradoxes will largely work themselves out.
[SPEAKER_00]: This season, I gave up on looking up the science terms because it was just Gabby Cook.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's because RTD is like, he deliberately was like, we're going to make it more about magic and I was like, please don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not that show.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, okay, this is not a Dr. Hoopot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I'm done complaining about that finale.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no magic in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The, it meant to point out that the company transport is due back in about a month and meant to think that they'll come looking for them if they don't turn it in by then.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like that comes back again to that question of, you know, the company is evil, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems very much so, but also because they're motivated by financial interests, sometimes that protects this group.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or could.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was playing Magic the Gathering the other day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this guy was playing a deck that was all about stealing cards from other decks.
[SPEAKER_01]: But just for the game, everyone, everyone will like.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, but if you kill that player, all their cards disappear.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like how the rules of the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he goes to me and goes, I can't do any more damage to you, or I'll lose all your cards.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, that's actually a good metaphor for like, what's happening here, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is can't kill you totally, because you might know where things are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also, then they have to do that financial payouts and they lose their equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think, okay, so Pinley says they're going to sue the entire corporation rim, how do you think that might go?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think Pinley has any shot?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it will go poorly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's kind of like suing Disney, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they'll send a lot of lawyers.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not an army.
[SPEAKER_01]: But also, I do like how that becomes sort of a dig by murder bot where murder bot goes, what are you going to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sioux somebody?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: When are you planning really?
[SPEAKER_00]: And pin these like, it is listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I guess it depends on because, you know, thinking also you've been talking about this case with the, with the wife of the cop in Massachusetts is it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Karen Reed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she got acquitted.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, she did, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: On everything except an OUI, or it's basically the UI, which is fair because she didn't been on camera that she drove for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, and she was blood test and she was still over the limit like hours later.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: But how much do you think in her case that the fact that this played out in front of the media influenced things?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that was true, that did it influence it, but I think more than that, what influence it was she had, like, an all-star team of lawyers that she paid millions to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's not getting that, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But media complain influence.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I almost want to do a what you watch it on that trial because it was wild.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should, you should.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still, like I said before, I still love the animosity between Murderbot and Garatha, and like, I didn't indicate concern.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just stayed at a fact about the temperature rising.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're so in love.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the real will they are, won't they?
[SPEAKER_01]: Not, not Garatha and Mensei.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Garatha and Murderbot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean obviously murder about in a non-sexual way, but they can have a romance.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like Geroth and might be interested in that kind of way too though, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: You never know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but if murder about's not, then it's off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I liked, yeah, in any case.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, I mean, I mean, Geroth and might be okay with no sex, just just.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, just a romance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We even, yeah, just a romance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: pinley says in its defense she was threatening to kill us and erotic says I don't think she would have I think she was bluffing in growth and pretty solid bluff yeah he said standing there with the whole one is like yeah I think it was a strong bluff there yeah yeah I felt pretty convinced that she would do harm when she was doing me harm
[SPEAKER_00]: But okay, the moment that made me laugh, out loud, the most even on my rewatch was, Mensa says, I don't think we could make it without tech units.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Arata says, yeah, because we'd be defenseless and pinley steps up, babe, I'm here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, Arata steps up, so am I. I think these eyes, oh my God, the things he does in his face are hilarious.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of good comedy in this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is one of the funny episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason I say episode six is still my favorite is that I don't think any moment has topped like the emotional, like, distance of him killing her and I want to be the hero and then he's just not.
[SPEAKER_01]: That to me is emblematic of the whole show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I love that this one, it has, you know, the funny moments like I was just talking about, but I also had a lot of really emotional moments like the first scene that we talked about and also, you know, men says questioning, she's like, it's not about whether we will leave
[SPEAKER_00]: The second is about whether it will leave us because it has its history of abuse.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we see a murder bot out in the woods talking about, I'm not half, half bot, I'm not half organic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am one whole confused entity.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, what did you think of that scene where murder bots thinking about like, what if I just watched media into my battery runs out and has like a hallucination of itself growing into a tree?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's sad, but like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he's like, uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just sucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I'm probably going to be sold back into slavery after this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or meltdown, one of the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's worse ways to go out than just chilling with nature and watching your shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really not, I don't not get it, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, you know, it's thinking about ending its existence.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's something else that that murderbot and growth can bond over in their bromance.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Something's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, by the way, did you when Gerothin is, you know, as Smenza, whether she is feelings for murder bots, which first of all, like, okay, yeah, the jealousy is not logical, but Menza is literally already married to other people, like, what are we jealous of here?
[SPEAKER_00]: But then, but then Gerothin has a moment where he says, oh, here he comes, it.
[SPEAKER_00]: growth and struggling with the pronouns too of murder but well we have that in common because I just I have I have trouble calling a being in it yeah and we find out men says feeling guilt for killing the other second with a mining drill and I
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't know if, I'd start to say, I have not ever killed a second unit with a mining drill to save my second unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I would struggle with guilt in the same way there, even though I'm miss empathy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you grew up in a society where second units are considered, or, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think what's the overall category right at constructs constructs are are treated as is actually humans like they are there beings although we know that they're kind of second-class citizens anyway but treated more as as people I think you would feel badly I mean I think any kill when you're not when you're not a killer any kill is going to take something out of you but even if
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm definitely, I'm not a killer, but even if someone were trying to kill someone, I care about it, a member of my group, something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I like to think I wouldn't hesitate to act and I don't know how much I would struggle with the guilt.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I guess I think you naive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you'd act for sure, and I think intellectually you can justify it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just think, you know, with no experience in the matter, like I think that I would still feel badly afterwards, like ending a life is not a joke.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think emotionally it's going to be hard to separate yourself from that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a difference between the intellectualization of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, sure, you can justify it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the emotional, the emotional experience is still going to be like plenty of things we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can intellectually say like, I need to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you don't like that we had to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's where, I mean, that's definitely a break between murderbot and men said because obviously murderbot is has killed multiple entities or people or whatever in the course of its job let alone whatever that flashback is we haven't heard anything about for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Murderbot was like, I think Murderbot was kind of making a joke when saying about, you know, unless you have a drill in your hand and didn't realize that it would make men to feel bad or remind her of something that would upset her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we don't have to worry about getting the bitter in with Murderbot.
[SPEAKER_01]: murder bottle bring the bitter to the party right it's the sweet that's the problem right right although we got that line they were just trying to help which didn't help but as much as it pissed me off I kind of appreciated it yeah that's funny that that is funny I think murder about it's funny because murder about intellectually understands human bonds but can't feel them having trouble feeling them yeah it's almost like amus in the expanse
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, I love him.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my favorite character from him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like this guy who considers himself sociopath, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And sort of latches on to other people to give him a moral compass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's similar to murder about here with Mensa.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love also the perimeter jokes throughout and like and Murderbot is because this is right before the new second the other second it shows up and Murderbot's like oh no it's right before the the megafauna shows up and Murderbot's like scanning the horizon like something's up and we hear maybe it just needs some perimeter time that he says what even is the perimeter because it seems to vary
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the perimeter is wherever mud about wants to walk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: But how do you feel about how it ended?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going back to base.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're walking into the arms of the enemy, but I don't know what else they're going to do with Garathens injury.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I think, I'll say in the books they, there is a similar situation where they know they're walking into a trap.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like this one is maybe more offers a more compelling reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you agree?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this gives a good motivation and it'll be fun to watch murder about like tirelessly defend Garatha in a guy he hates.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's he made him or just is annoyed by him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why not both?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't think he hates them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They took out a line from the book that I thought they should have left in, which was, I think you brought this up in the episode, which was, listen, I like them and they seem to like you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even, so I'm gonna protect you anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's part of the group.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, we all have our, either real families or found families where there's like someone you're like, oh, but they're one of us, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the bromance.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the name right now?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we've got three more weeks of murder back coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: Send your feedback to lorhoundsatthelorhounds.com and get to the discord server that you can find in the link tree in the show notes where you can get forum style, spoiler chats for each episode under current shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to talk about what's going on on the network and on the main feed?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so Supercast and Patreon has been those feeds have been quite busy lately.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's been an addition to all the extra past show content.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a recent Sony spider villain versus power ranking episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just recorded and will be really shortly the West Anderson film fest and there's going to be
[SPEAKER_00]: a Jill in for July we're doing a Val Kilmer film fest so that voting about to go live as well for subscribers and subscribers also just got access to a twenty eight days and twenty eight weeks later podcast looking back on those two movies and talking about
[SPEAKER_00]: The nature of zombies in film and how this upended it and what that means and all of that and there's going to be twenty-eight years later in the public feed coming up very shortly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw it last night and I'm kind of obsessed right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it and there's also going to be ironheart coming up and what else somewhere in stories I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yes, I am recording with Marilyn early July.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that'll be out shortly after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and and plenty more to come.
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody somebody just reached out to guests on some Berlin stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to have her on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's going to be a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got a lot of good guests coming up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: And check out the affiliates.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, never mind the music, radioactive ramlings, rings and rituals properly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Howard will shift dust and the Star Wars can in timeline podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, plenty of stuff going on over there, especially I don't properly Howard is now back on the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you've been sleeping on properly Howard, go back and check out Bacon Rapp about Kevin Bacon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, about like, it's a degrees of thing, I think, where it's between different actors and who are connected through various movies.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen to their draft episode, they explain it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, they'll explain it better than we can.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, time to thank everybody.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We can talk about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm putting it off.
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