[SPEAKER_01]: Christian parenting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the December episode of Let's Parental and Purpose.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, Jay Holland.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have two big news announcements for you today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one is the interview that I'm bringing you today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lee Strobel, such an incredible man, a man of God, somebody that's impacted my faith.
[SPEAKER_00]: and has released recently a new book that you're going to love, we talk about it today, the case for Christmas.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not familiar with Lee Strobel, he's a former award-winning journalist from the Chicago Tribune.
[SPEAKER_00]: His investigation under Christianity led him from atheism into faith and his seminal work, the one that I first learned about him.
[SPEAKER_00]: the case for faith is a profound, deep look that will help skeptics realize that you can trust the history of the gospel of Jesus and the resurrection.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's done the case for the Creator.
[SPEAKER_00]: A number of these a case for miracles.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he is recently released, which a really, which is a gospel tool, the case for Christmas, which is out now in a highly encourage you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pick up a copy for you and your family, but also as a witnessing tool for others, you can get a really cheap copy of it out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lee also has a movie coming out next week, December 15th through 18th, I believe, in theaters.
[SPEAKER_00]: the case for miracles, which would be a great one for you and your kids to go to, to see the document improve that God is still moving, verify of miracles that God is working in the world today.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to really love the interview that I have with Lee.
[SPEAKER_00]: The second big announcement that I have is that today, I have released a new Decided Devotional Book, it's called Renewed, the 365-day Christian Gratitude Journal.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can get this exclusively through Amazon.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: You type in renewed the 365 day gratitude journal or if you just do renewed in J. Holland.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll be a link here in the show notes together.
[SPEAKER_00]: What this is is a daily guided meditation.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have a scripture verse or an encouraging quote from a Christian or believer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a guided prompted question that will help you reflect about four lines of reflection each day on who God is used to impact your life, the beauty and wonder of nature, God's character, God's work in you, God's work in the world and over the course of the year as you are guided in this and just a couple minutes of what you're thankful for each day, you will have an opportunity to let God shape your heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: transform your mind as you pay attention to the good things that God is doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can pick out one up I think it's 1499 on Amazon and I ask if you listen to it and you get it and you like it Would you please leave a review?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's really the big way to help me is leave a review so that other people will find it I believe in this book.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that it's gonna be a big encouragement to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wrote it because I need it and I spend every year about a month
[SPEAKER_00]: writing out a gratitude list each morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: This will help you be a little bit more in depth in it, but also only take about four or five minutes a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would also be a great tool for you and your spouse to end the day together on as you go through the prompts together and it would be a great tool for you to just have dinner table conversation, take one or two prompts
[SPEAKER_00]: and have each person share.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, that's renewed the 365 day Christian gratitude journal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pick up your copy at Amazon.com today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Share it with a friend and thank you so much for helping review and promote it to other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate you.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all that I have to announce to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you have a very amazing, happy Christmas.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you are missing out on podcast because I'm only down to about one a month right now, please check out guided by faith, my daily devotional podcast for teen, young adults, their parents and grandparents.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got one of those every single day about five to six minutes to encourage your day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then finally,
[SPEAKER_00]: I share free resources with you all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want those, go to just text the word things, THI and GS to 666-866.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's things to 666-86.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll send you a scripture memory tool, fun family conversations guide for your dinner table conversations, and then a bunch of other things that will help you in your discipleship, your parenting, your marriage.
[SPEAKER_00]: your walk with Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, thanks so much for listening and supporting Let's Parental and Purpose, and I know you're going to love this conversation today with Lee Stroble, so enjoy it, share it with a friend, and have a merry Christmas.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lee Stroble, what an honor it is to have you on Let's Parental and Purpose, somebody who has had an impact on my faith in life, and so welcome to the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an honor to be on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate what you do for so many
[SPEAKER_00]: So my introduction to you, probably the vast majority of people was through the case of Christ, which was a fantastic book and still one that I recommend and hand out.
[SPEAKER_00]: For those that are not familiar with you and your journey, would you briefly just share your story of coming to Christ?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that will play into our discussion about Christmas as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, I was an atheist, my background's internalism and law.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was a legal editor of the Chicago Tribune newspaper, and my wife was agnostic.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say, that's probably the best description, then she came to faith.
[SPEAKER_02]: in Christ.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I thought that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our marriage is over.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to divorce her and walk away because I didn't want to be married to a Christian.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was pretty hostile toward faith issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I thought maybe I could disprove this cult that she got involved in and rescuer.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I decided to take my journalism training and legal training and systematically investigate whether or not there's any evidence for Christianity, especially the resurrection.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because Jesus clearly claimed to be the Son of God.
[SPEAKER_02]: The question is,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if he died and three days later came back from the dead, then we got some pretty good evidence.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's telling the truth.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I spent two years doing that until November the 8th of 1981 when I realized and light of the avalanche of evidence.
[SPEAKER_02]: It really points out powerfully toward the truth of Christianity.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would have taken more faith to maintain my atheism than to become a Christian.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the scales just went like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's when I confess my sin, receive Jesus, this is my forgiver and leader.
[SPEAKER_02]: My life was transformed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Later took a 60% pay cut.
[SPEAKER_02]: They joined Stanford Church and never looked back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you said that was 1989.
[SPEAKER_00]: 81.
[SPEAKER_00]: 81, 81, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was a whopping four years old as you're coming to Christ.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the course of your journey with Jesus, you have in many instances taking your investigative journalistic skills and apply them to some area of contention of the faith.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the ones we're gonna talk about Christmas today?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the other ones that you have examined?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, my approach is to use my journalism background.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I go out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I find the world's leading experts in various areas of evidence for the faith as well as skeptics.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've interviewed the number one skeptic in Canada, the number one skeptic in America.
[SPEAKER_02]: And ask them the kind of questions I had when I was an atheist and see if they can give me good answer.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've done the case for miracles, the case for grace, the case for creator, the case for faith, the case for Easter, the case for Christmas, it's my new one.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what else?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to think I'm probably missing a few.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we do, we do books for teenagers based on those books.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's really, really important to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's why.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, yeah, and I've done, I did a couple of recent books.
[SPEAKER_02]: One call is God Real, because I found out that 200 times a second, around the clock, someone on the planet is typing into a search engine, is God Real.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 200 times a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wrote a book all is got real.
[SPEAKER_02]: It really encapsulates the evidence.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just came out with a addition called is got real for teens.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it puts it in a person and language and so forth illustrations that a teenager would really understand.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that just came out recently.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I think it's a more my my children are
[SPEAKER_02]: all grown up.
[SPEAKER_02]: My grandkids are growing up fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got a 20 year old and an 18 year old grandchild children.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I see the importance of deepening the faith of youngsters as they're as they're maturing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we live in an Asian society where anybody can put anything on the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The more slickly produced it is, the more somebody's convinced that it's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that true?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not sure if you're familiar with, I think the title of the YouTube, it was like, oh, a long one called Desit Geist or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember having a tremendously negative impact on a lot of people weaving together a bunch of snippets of this and that, trying to build the case that the whole story of Jesus was a myth about all of these different places, including much of what we believe in celebrate and his written inscripture about the nativity, let's go back if you
[SPEAKER_00]: you're an investigative journalist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say you are in a courtroom.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you have a is 20, 25, and you have a group of college students as the jurors.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you are aiming to their skeptics and you are aiming to lay out the case file for Christmas to a skeptic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What would be your top piece of evidence that the major story is historically reliable?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we've got two excellent sources that go back extremely early.
[SPEAKER_02]: First generation of the birth of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of them is written from Mary's perspective.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is the account from in the Gospel of Luke.
[SPEAKER_02]: Luke didn't start out saying I'm going to write about what happened in a faraway place and some distant No, no, he says I carefully investigated everything so I could write an orderly account about the certainty of what took place He's claiming you really investigated this stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe he interviewed Mary
[SPEAKER_02]: If not, he may have interviewed Joanna or Susanna, who were friends, who he mentions in his gospel, and then we have another account, which is different perspective, because it's from Joseph's perspective, written by Matthew.
[SPEAKER_02]: Matthew is a disciple.
[SPEAKER_02]: Matthew knew Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: Matthew came to Jesus from his sinful background as a text collector, and then he later became a leader in the church in Jerusalem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, guess who else was a leader in the church of Jerusalem?
[SPEAKER_02]: The brother or James, they have brother of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: So James, no doubt, told Matthew about the kind of the male perspective of the birth of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was since I was talking to a mom the other day.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she said, yeah, if you ask any mom and dad to tell the story of the birth of their child, the dad's version is going to emphasize certain things.
[SPEAKER_02]: The mom's version is going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that true?
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought that's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: a dovetail, they don't conflict, they're complementary.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then some people say, yeah, but there's four gospels.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do only two of them report on the detail about the birth of Jesus?
[SPEAKER_02]: And not every gospel reports on every aspect of the life of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: The gospel of Mark starts his gospel a little further along in the life of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what's interesting in Mark chapter six, verse three,
[SPEAKER_02]: you would never do that in first century Jewish culture.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always the father's son.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be Joseph, an end of Joseph word deceased by that time.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'd always refer to the child as Joseph's son.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: He referred to him as Mary's son, which I think is the kind of winking and saying, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know Joseph wasn't the biological father.
[SPEAKER_02]: That it was a virgin birth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then John, of course, he's the last guy to write.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't repeat a lot that's reported in the other three gospels.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has a grand theological account of the incarnation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in the beginning was the word, the word was with God, the word was God, and the word entered into our world and dwelled among us.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what's interesting to me is John had a student.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had a disciple and that student of John wrote some letters.
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of those letters, very, very early again.
[SPEAKER_02]: In one of those letters, he says that Jesus quote was really and truly born of a virgin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where did he get that idea?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think from John, who was his mentor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a real paradigm shift for me, but growing up, you hear the Bible says this, the Bible says this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we do acknowledge that the Bible is the Word of God.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a uniform book that tells God's story to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the Bible is also a collection of 66 different books written by, I think, 40 different authors.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you are,
[SPEAKER_00]: taking it from a historical standpoint, you do need to not just say, well, we only have one source about this, which is the Bible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like you said, I need to look at this as these are different eye-witness accounts.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are their biographies from the Ancient Near East.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are not written like an American biography would be wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: But these are multiple eye-witness accounts or interviewing living eye-witnesses.
[SPEAKER_00]: within the lifetime and then I believe you've done this in some of your other books compare that to the earliest accounts we have of some Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar or anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, most of the Harrison, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of the things we accept as being true about the ancient worth about Alexander the Great or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you dig down, you find out they're based on one source, maybe if we're lucky, two sources.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet here we have, you know, four of these gospel are three of them, at least, that allude or describe and detail the birth of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was interesting, I have a friend who's a professor at Moody Bible Institute, who's a Jewish believer.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was talking about the birth of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of his Jewish friends said, yeah, but you've only got two sources for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've only got a Matthew and Luke that gave any details.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my friend said to him, well, the story of Hanukkah with the eight candles, that has one source.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it comes about 600 years after the fact.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, so don't tell me that two sources is a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: So
[SPEAKER_02]: This is very well-established.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of reliable stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in the first generation of people, which is important, because critics could have attacked this or raised questions about this very early on, and yet it has stood the test of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the case for Christmas, this book that is your most recent release.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had the opportunity to read through it, really enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_00]: laying down some of these historical proofs and also clearing up some mysteries and misconceptions.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the ones that was really fascinating to me was that the no-room in the end section.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was fascinating to me, too, when I researched it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had never heard what you shared in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll just see.
[SPEAKER_00]: give you the floor what in the world did they mean by no room in the end and what should I have in my front yard for my nativity scene if I'm going to be historically accurate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh man you're open a can of words.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it all boils down to one word in the Greek, a katalima.
[SPEAKER_02]: What does that word mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because Luke says that the baby Jesus was placed in a manger because there was no room for
[SPEAKER_02]: for them in the katalima.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was translated in the King James Version as being in the in.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... a lot and so the story developed at all marion Joseph for approaching Bethlehem they go to their she's about to get birth they go to an in or a lot the guy says oh sorry no room and slams the door in their face what do they do they go into a stable or a cave and they have the baby amongst the animals and uh... the baby is placed in a manger which is a feeding trough the animals
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's probably not the best translation of the work at Taluma.
[SPEAKER_02]: Interestingly enough, Luke only uses that word one other time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when he does, it refers to a private residence.
[SPEAKER_02]: If Luke were to refer to an inn or a lodge, he would have used a different Greek word, Pondo Hayon, which he does use in the story about the good Samaritan.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if he wanted to say an inn, he could have used that word, but he didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: He used the word Catalema.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now here's, you have to understand how houses were built in the first century in Bethlehem.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one large room.
[SPEAKER_02]: but it's divided into two parts.
[SPEAKER_02]: The larger part is the living area.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where people would sleep and eat and so forth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there were a couple of steps down to a kind of a smaller side area, and this is where the animals were brought at night to keep warm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, the animals were like pets, you know, how cute is a little baby sheep, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Even baby goats, if you ever see the baby go out there, they're cute.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so sometimes the rest couple stares up into the larger living area and the animals would come up the stairs and they'd pet them and play with them and so forth because they were like pets.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they had meangers in the living area as well as in the animal area.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now...
[SPEAKER_02]: a more wealthy family would have a katalima which is a guest room.
[SPEAKER_02]: That had a separate entrance and was just more space for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now what apparently happened is Mary and Joseph were coming into Bethlehem because of the census.
[SPEAKER_02]: They knock in the door of a relative from the house of David like he was and they say hey can we stay with you and they say oh gosh yes of course of course but there's no room in the katalima there's no room in the guest room so
[SPEAKER_02]: you can give birth in the family room, the family area.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's apparently where she gave birth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, there were some animals that may very well have come up the stairs and wonder, what is all this commotion about, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And there is a manger up there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the baby was laid in the manger.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this is a better translation.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, in the year 395, John Wickliffe and his translation translated it as a room, not an inn.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, um, look at the new international version, the NIV today, very popular version.
[SPEAKER_02]: It refers to it as a room, not an inn.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, scholars say that the value of hospitality was so high in the first century Jewish culture.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would have been impossible for an innkeeper to turn away a pregnant Jewish woman.
[SPEAKER_02]: He would be ostracized.
[SPEAKER_02]: He would be run on a town on a rail by the town.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you just could not do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Besides, which may not even have been in Bethlehem.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was not a big town by 500 people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was not on major crossroads.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now there could have been, maybe maybe not.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the better translation is probably it's a guest room, and that's probably what occurred.
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, Mary was probably not on the verge of giving birth as they arrived, either.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you read Luke carefully, he says that Mary gave birth while they were in
[SPEAKER_02]: Bethlehem doesn't say while they were in Bethlehem 10 minutes or 10 days or five weeks or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: The idea that there was an urgency comes from a fictional account written in the year 200 AD.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that comes far after this.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have historical roots like Matthew and Luke.
[SPEAKER_02]: And in that story, Mary and Joseph were approaching Bethlehem.
[SPEAKER_02]: They get within three miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: She can't stop.
[SPEAKER_02]: She has to have the baby.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they go to a cave and she gives birth
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's a fictional account, but it is probably where the idea of the cave came from because some people think that she gave birth in a cave.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But we, I remember being in West Virginia, being a part of our Christmas plays and being Joseph frantically going from door to door, asking for somebody to let us in because my wife's about to have a baby and then that greedy and keeper of charge me to go out to the stable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is really wrecking, what did I do with all of that my acting time?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know, but you know, when I read that,
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it immediately took me to one of my trips to India and I've had the blessing to travel to India.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll meet too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, I was in, uh, I was in my 20s and I was in a, um, visiting a village.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were just showing me, you know, showing me around taking me wherever, everywhere, showing tremendous hospitality.
[SPEAKER_00]: and we go into a home and within the roof structure of the home is kind of divided into two parts.
[SPEAKER_00]: One is kind of where everybody lived and the other, they had a water buffalo right there underneath.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the middle of that, it's like that's something like what you're describing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It still happens in many places around the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting because to
[SPEAKER_00]: Anywhere I go, I'm going to a hotel, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, and makes perfect sense to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for those reading, it's always interesting what the original authors did not have to clarify because everybody would have known what they were talking about at the time of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that argues for the earlyness, early dating of those gospels.
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't have to spell things out very much because people got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They live there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'd like to talk as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: You make a really big deal about the virgin birth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the church makes a really big deal about the virgin birth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You argue for the historical accuracy of the virgin birth, but also the theological importance.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so some people, let's start theologically and then let's go historically.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people might say, why does it matter?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are you even making a big deal about this or not?
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like you are,
[SPEAKER_00]: shoving an unnecessary thing for people to swallow into a story that's already hard enough for people to swallow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, we focus on it because that's what happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we want to report accurately what happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yes, there is theological significance to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It allows Jesus to be fully God and fully man.
[SPEAKER_02]: And to be born without original sin or a corrupt moral nature.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know Luke spells it out he says the angel answered Mary the Holy Spirit will come on you and the power the most high will overshadow you So that in other words and the consequence of that is the holy one will be called the son of God In other words he will be holy because he will not have the taint of a corrupt moral nature or of original sin
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the version birth is important from that perspective, it's also important from the perspective of fulfillment of ancient prophecy in Isaiah chapter 7 verse 14, where there's a passage that in the nest of Messianic passages that talks about the future Messiah being born of a virgin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now critics will say, oh, wait a minute, the word they use there.
[SPEAKER_02]: in that Hebrew passage in Isaiah, it doesn't really mean Virgin, the word Alma just means a young maiden.
[SPEAKER_02]: If they wanted to say Virgin, they would have used the word Bactouelo.
[SPEAKER_02]: So look, they don't have it right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, there was no single word in ancient Hebrew that always meant Virgin.
[SPEAKER_02]: The word that was used Alma means a young maiden, and in those days a young maiden was presumed to be a virgin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the word Batuola could refer to a widow who would not have been a virgin.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it doesn't always refer to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is the correct word.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, when the old, the Hebrew scriptures were translated into the Greek, even before Jesus was born, they recognized this and they translated it into the Greek as virgin.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's, it's so fascinating that, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, as you were talking, you mentioned the the theological necessity of this to happen and that leads me down a question that is, you know, divisive in the major schisms of Christianity.
[SPEAKER_00]: the the term the the immaculate conception where when I was growing up I thought immaculate conception meant Mary conceiving Jesus miraculously and then then having him this this perfect child.
[SPEAKER_00]: that's what most people think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what makes sense to me, but that's not what the term means.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you share what it means and then clarify any any questions about it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the the Catholic Church takes a position that the the Catholic reception refers to the birth of Mary from her mother who was without sin.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's how Mary without sin gives birth to Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, the problem with that is how far do you go back?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because how did she get to be without sin?
[SPEAKER_02]: What she can see with that?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it just goes back.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it also violates Scripture, which says, everyone has sinned and falls short of the glory of God.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no one without sin and includes Mary's mother.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's more reasonable to take Luke at his word that there's something about the Holy Spirit conceiving Jesus that overcame the human propensity for sin and the original sin in human beings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now let me go completely speculative here because we have no way to really know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just DNA while with Jesus, like you've probably thought about this before.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think, what do you think Jesus is physical DNA would have looked like?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because typically DNA is, you know, 50% mom, 50% dad and what they carry in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, what's your conception of his DNA might be like?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, interestingly, one of the greatest defenders of the Christian faith is a guy with two PhDs, Dr. William Link Craig.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Dr. Craig is a good friend of mine.
[SPEAKER_02]: He used to
[SPEAKER_02]: block at this idea of the Virgin birth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I said, why?
[SPEAKER_02]: He said, because genetically for Mary to give birth to a male child, she would have to have a wide chromosome in her ovum, because
[SPEAKER_02]: girl babies have two excromosomes, males have an X and a Y, and the Y comes from the male.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if there was no, if Joseph wasn't involved in the conception of Jesus, where this Y chromosome comes from, so he used to doubt it until he said, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he became famous, Dr. Craig, for his argument that God created the universe that Genesis 1 1 is correct because whatever begins to exist as a cause, we now know the universe began to exist at some point in the past.
[SPEAKER_02]: Therefore there must be a cause behind the universe.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he looks at what kind of a cause can bring a universe into existence.
[SPEAKER_02]: And those characteristics matched the description of the God of the Bible.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he said, wait a minute, if God can create
[SPEAKER_02]: for him to create the white chromosome in Mary.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like child's play, that's nothing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for God to create DNA from nothing in Mary would be child's play.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it was a supernatural intervention by God.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so so you're saying Jesus was not like 50% look like Mary and then 50% radiant glowing on the other other part.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he's fully God and fully man right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he has some sort of full DNA expression even though Joseph was not part of the conception.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I had to come from somewhere and I think it came from God's creativity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk just a minute about some of the pagan parallels, again, I'm imagining that movie's I guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was a great way for us to tell us.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the pagan parallels that you were aware of and really there's not as much to them as what people might claim?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is bunk.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll just say that straight up.
[SPEAKER_02]: This was propagated in the 1800s by German theologians.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was completely disproven in the early 1900s by Christians.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then in the 1990s, people began to get on the internet and look at all this old stuff by these old Germans say, hey, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: This idea of the virgin birth, for example, that just came from earlier mythology.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I did is go back to the original myths.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for instance, the most popular one that people claim is from Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code, his book and his movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it talks about Mythras, which was an ancient myth, and he said, hey, Mythras, he was born of a virgin.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was born in December 25th.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had 12 disciples.
[SPEAKER_02]: He died for World Peace.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was resurrected from the dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Christians just made up this idea of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: He never really lived and copied all these things from ancient mythology about mythos.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, what I did is I went back and look, what is the mythology about Mithrus?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, number one, Mithrus didn't even flower as a mythological construct till after Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, really?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, having said then, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you get, dig into it, what do you find out?
[SPEAKER_02]: Number one, was he born of a virgin?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, the myth says that Mithrus emerged fully grown naked from a rock, and he was wearing a hat.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was the birth of Mithrus.
[SPEAKER_02]: So unless you consider the rock to be a virgin, which I think would be irrational, there is no virgin birth of Mithrus.
[SPEAKER_02]: Number two is born into December 25th.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, so what?
[SPEAKER_02]: The Bible doesn't tell us the date that Jesus was born.
[SPEAKER_02]: So who cares?
[SPEAKER_02]: Number three, he had 12 disciples.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: According to one version, he had one disciple, according to another version, he had two disciples.
[SPEAKER_02]: He died for World Peace.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was known for killing a bull.
[SPEAKER_02]: He died and was resurrected.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing in the mythology about Mithras, about him dying ever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so therefore nothing about a resurrection.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this completely collapses when you investigate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's true of each and every one of these claims.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, some people say that, Oh, Alexander the Great.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was conceived by Zeus, you know, the mythological god Zeus.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Alexander the Great's own mother, Olympius, set the record.
[SPEAKER_02]: She said, it ain't true.
[SPEAKER_02]: She literally said, no, this story about it ain't true.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she denies it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Boot is mom, who dreamed a white elephant interned her and gave birth to Boota.
[SPEAKER_02]: That, she was married for many years before that happened, so she wasn't a virgin in any sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dionysus, he used the God of fertility and wine, and people say, oh, Dionysus was born in virgin.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, look at the actual story.
[SPEAKER_02]: The mythological God's Zeus impregnates a princess.
[SPEAKER_02]: Zeus's queen gets mad, so she burns the fetus to a crisp.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Zeus rescues the fetus, and he soows it into his thigh,
[SPEAKER_02]: until the fetus develops, and then the fetus is born.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not a virgin birth in any sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's as craziness.
[SPEAKER_02]: Zoroaster is another one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, this is interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: The story of Zoroaster comes hundreds of years before Jesus, but the idea that his mom conceived him by drinking a sacred drink, that comes 900 years after Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if there was any,
[SPEAKER_02]: borrowing going on, it came the other direction, not too Christianity, but from Christianity.
[SPEAKER_02]: So each of these things, there's a guy I know, and a named Dr. Gordon Nash, and he wrote books, you know, wait, before you were born, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: disputing all of this and then he wrote another book in the 1990s and and in the forward he said I don't know why I'm disputing this again.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is all been resolved.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing to it But I'm gonna write another book because it's become popular again.
[SPEAKER_00]: You wrote a book called God in the Greeks I don't know why I'm doing this because it's all bunk as you have spent your time investigating this stuff
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it done to your personal worship of the Lord?
[SPEAKER_00]: And your experience walking through Christmas the Christmas season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's got to have had a profound impact on you, diving as deep in and finding as much solid reinforcement for your faith.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how is it affected your personal worship of the Lord through Christmas?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, the greatest stories are the ones that turn out to be true.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we can have all kinds of mystical stories and fictional stories that are intriguing and aspiring and engaging.
[SPEAKER_02]: But who cares, ultimately?
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's it's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's an actual heaven.
[SPEAKER_02]: If this is true, it changes everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it means that the son of God was incarnated into our world.
[SPEAKER_02]: He lived the perfect life.
[SPEAKER_02]: He showed us how to live.
[SPEAKER_02]: He goes to his death.
[SPEAKER_02]: He pays a penalty for the sins.
[SPEAKER_02]: so that we can be forgiven and receive a passage to heaven to spend with God for eternity.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's he's born to die.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's his ultimate mission is to die as our substitute to pay for the sins that we've committed so we can be forgiven and receive this gift of eternal life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's a heck of a story.
[SPEAKER_02]: but it's true, and if it's true, it changes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember just last Sunday, I'm speaking to the church, and I'm kind of sitting in the green room ready to go out and preach.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm preaching on Christmas and this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm watching the worship time on the screen before I go out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm crying because of the truth
[SPEAKER_02]: that Jesus is, this isn't just historical stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is history that points toward a truth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if Jesus is who He claimed to be, my goodness, then He loves me so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: He came into the world voluntarily, went to the cross, voluntarily, paid my sins, voluntarily, because He loves us.
[SPEAKER_02]: And He offers forgiveness as a free gift of His grace.
[SPEAKER_02]: and you go, there's no better story and especially because it's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lee in addition to the case for Christmas, which is now out everywhere that people buy books, which is mostly Amazon, but it's everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have another really big announcement of something that's just out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to share that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we have a motion picture that will be in a movie theater's coast to coast on December the 15th, 16th, 17th, and 18th, so December 15th through the 18th, there's called the case for miracles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, case for miracles, Christmas is a miracle, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's Christmas season, it's appropriate to bring your kids to, I don't know that little kids would get it, but you know, I have a grandson who's 12, he'll be going.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing weird in it, but it's the story of the fact that God is still in the miracle business today.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have documented cases, many of them published in peer-reviewed medical journals, documented by multiple medical researchers, and the storylines very engaging the cinematography is beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if people are interested, they can go to the website, which is
[SPEAKER_02]: the case for miraclesmovie.com and you can watch the trailer movie.com.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: The case from miraclesmovie.com, you can watch the trailer, you can get tickets, put in your zip code and tell you what theaters are showing it near you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you can, bring a friend who is on a spiritually curious, this is the Christmas season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody even skeptics, even an atheist
[SPEAKER_02]: I think more spiritually receptive, open, sensitive during the Christmas season.
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's seize that opportunity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Colossians four of verse five and six says, let's seize the opportunity that we have to reach outsiders.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so bring someone to the movie and then take them out to coffee afterwards and talk about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And see what they think and then maybe give McCopy of the case for Christmas.
[SPEAKER_02]: We kept the book really inexpensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can find it online for like under two bucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Amazing and the idea is I personally I had to do this even though it's my but I had to buy Copy I bought 300 copies of my book and my goal is to give them a way between now and Christmas with people I encounter So I've been given a way to flight attendants to clerks and hotels to waitresses and waiters to You name I was at the doctors officer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I check up the other day.
[SPEAKER_02]: I gave one to the receptionist and the nurse and the doctors and the appointment maker and all these people and
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just, and you know what, it's so interesting when you hand them a book, because it's an attractive little book, and when it's small, it's doable, you can read it in 90 minutes.
[SPEAKER_02]: The reaction is fascinating.
[SPEAKER_02]: People clutch it and they say, oh, a book.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love to read.
[SPEAKER_02]: How many of them have had that reaction?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this is great.
[SPEAKER_02]: We actually gave them out at at Halloween.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so kids are trick or treating.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're giving them candy.
[SPEAKER_02]: We say now this is for your parents.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this one kid who was, you know, he was about 13.
[SPEAKER_02]: He took the book and he looked and he said, no, I'm going to read this.
[SPEAKER_02]: This looks really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're hoping, and as I mentioned to you earlier, a lot of people don't know this, but Hobby Lobby bought a half a million copies, and they're giving them away free to every customer between now and Christmas.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you buy anything at Hobby Lobby, the cash use goes, hey, by the way, here's a free book.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I hope we spread it far and wide, not for my sake, but for the sake of the gospel, because the gospel is clearly presented in the book.
[SPEAKER_00]: And sure, as it really is,
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would encourage people, as you heard Lee make that plead, not only are people more responsive at Christmas, but my experience this year, I have seen more people responsive to the gospel, really in the last five months than I have personally witnessed in my entire life.
[SPEAKER_00]: In public schools, in private settings, within our church,
[SPEAKER_00]: respond to the same message that's been shared.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like we figured out some new way to share the God.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think the spirit of God's moving and personally, I think Jesus is coming very soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, I agree with you and I see it too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I spoke at a church a couple of weekends ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had 105 people come to faith at the service.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I did another one the next week, 160 people came to faith.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're still there with, I just saw a report on television about college fraternities.
[SPEAKER_02]: where fraternities are almost turning into Bible studies.
[SPEAKER_02]: So many kids, so many young people, young guys are coming to faith and you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: God is stirring the pot right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is an opportunity to seize.
[SPEAKER_02]: Amen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lee, thank you so much for your time.
[SPEAKER_00]: My pleasure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome back anytime you want and wish you the very best and merry Christmas and pray that God uses these resources to reach many for Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you and it's an honor to be with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: You do a great job.
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate the ministry.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to so many people and God bless you and all your viewers and have a great great Christmas is here for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: As always, I want to thank you so much for listening to Let's Parental Purpose this week for sharing it with friends and for subscribing, like, buttoning, and all of the things that you will need.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's Parental Purpose is a Ministry of the 1-2-7 project.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a listener supported, and if you want to be a part of producing this podcast, and then more than that, taking care of the orphan and at-risk around the world, you can do so by going to Let's Parental Purpose.com slash support.
[SPEAKER_00]: or clicking the give button at the bottom of my things for Thursday email that I send out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we can be a part of the transformed and not just our families, but the uttermost part of the world is the gospel of Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to thank you for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to remind you that parenting is a marathon, not a sprint, but we'll walk you soon.
[UNKNOWN]: Thanks for watching!