[SPEAKER_00]: Hello everyone and welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole, with Quark Dax and their good friends Tom and Harry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space Night!
[SPEAKER_02]: your host for today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are my fellow trekk actors Terry Farrell, Robert Duncan McNeill, and me self, Garret Wong, and I'm speaking that way because I just saw, Carmen's play.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: We all saw it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know we all.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were so fantastic, weren't they both?
[SPEAKER_01]: They were so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other two acts.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other two.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a man who lies a fan, who lies a fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's a wonderful night, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, she must have been great in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my goodness.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he and Armand Directed it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I thought the I thought the Unlady Directed it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're in direct July.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: The the gal in the play last night, the young one directed the Irish play is what happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I was confusing it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because another person.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think it's it was her that's what I recall.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to say about the play that it was phenomenal and everyone listening to this podcast, you're out of luck because the play will have close by the time the podcast comes out fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: So next time we tell you, go check out
[SPEAKER_01]: You got a kiddies play you got to go because we we went to see it all at all three of us and it was phenomenal.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a great play.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was beautifully executed and it was reprised, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hadn't they done the spraying and then this is their second run.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a second run.
[SPEAKER_00]: So good kitty I just when I saw that my heart was she was so she's not a frail person
[SPEAKER_00]: as a, you know, she's strong, but her physicality was so good in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just broke my heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just needed to squeeze her extra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_02]: The difference, Terry, just so you know, between that first run, the second run, but we learned this from Armin, that first run, the stage was much bigger.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this stage was very compact and because of that, it actually added to the tension and everything because it was more compact.
[SPEAKER_00]: The intimacy.
[SPEAKER_02]: The intimacy of it, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was that like a 99-seat theater size?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it felt small, small.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I loved it too.
[SPEAKER_01]: The actors, the play and oh my gosh, the sets.
[SPEAKER_00]: How they rotated them and moved them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, birthday time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Birthday times.
[SPEAKER_01]: Woo, woo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Day time.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Carol Patterson has a birthday on December 13th.
[SPEAKER_01]: Happy birthday, Carol.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday, Carol.
[SPEAKER_01]: Happy birthday, Carol.
[SPEAKER_00]: Estelle.
[SPEAKER_00]: December 13th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday, Estelle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Happy birthday, Estelle, another December 13th.
[SPEAKER_01]: You and Carol should have a party.
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday to Estelle.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we also have Justin Weir, Justin Weir on December 14th.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at all these Sagittarians here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday, Justin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday, Justin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Happy birthday, Justin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have a great birthday.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I would not be, it would not be good if I did not mention one other person.
[SPEAKER_02]: December 14th is the birthday of my beloved Megan.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Megan is December 14th as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So happy birthday Megan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday Megan.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then of course my birthday is the day after December 15th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you turning 40 again?
[SPEAKER_02]: I turned 40.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, my 17th anniversary of my 40th birthday.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I paid.
[SPEAKER_02]: The poetry time?
[SPEAKER_02]: Probably.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Limerickus.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where the episode the ship?
[SPEAKER_01]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: A gem hadarship fell from the skies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Francisco, this was an incredible prize.
[SPEAKER_01]: The battle was severe.
[SPEAKER_01]: They lost friends that were dear, but victory came at a heartbreaking price.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that was really pretty.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very well done.
[SPEAKER_02]: Very tight, very efficient and good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, sir.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did this price and price, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: A little, but, you know, what are you going to do?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's close and not.
[SPEAKER_02]: It works for art.
[SPEAKER_02]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_02]: My high coup, my high coup for the episode The Ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Conducting Survey, Jim Hadar, Warship Crashlands, five fallen comrades.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, also very tight and deep.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very deep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it is, it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, Terry, you got some poetry for us?
[SPEAKER_01]: Terry's a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's fresh.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's short and sweet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Through experience, we trust.
[SPEAKER_00]: For our strategy, a must.
[SPEAKER_00]: One lie takes us down to our unity we are bound.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You did.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like she was scary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Colana, Colana, because if she wasn't scary, uh, and so shady, shifty, if she would have been honest with him from the get go, um, Cisco would have trusted her, and if she had had that, maybe it didn't have that, like I'm, what is that word I want to use?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not passive aggressive, maybe she was a little, but she was definitely active.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: She seemed conniving and manipulative.
[SPEAKER_02]: My, I didn't get as much of that, but okay, I hear you.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because it didn't seem sincere, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't see her speaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was definitely hiding something, but we didn't know what it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, who was the first female vorta that we saw, Robbie?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was that actress.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you're asking me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't even remember what they had.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it me?
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: She did the guests are in Becker.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's in a lot a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's so talented.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and because she's done a ton of work, they wanted her back multiple times and her schedule would not.
[SPEAKER_02]: allow it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she was forced to stop.
[SPEAKER_02]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was at Molly Hagen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Molly Hagen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Molly Hagen, her resume clearly is the bomb.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But because she's the bomb digity bomb, they wanted her back as the female Vora twice.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the other time was in a prior episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then this time they went, they called her for this as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And
[SPEAKER_02]: and she was busy because she's always working.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so she said, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so then we had Caitlyn Hopkins as Kalana, they just came up with a whole different new character, another Florida, another female, Florida.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they wanted Montenegrohagan, because they loved her so much from the first one.
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: She had a Sheryl and Finn look.
[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't she?
[SPEAKER_02]: Who?
[SPEAKER_02]: The one in here?
[SPEAKER_02]: Caitlyn?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: She does definitely have that look.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought she was gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's beautiful, beautiful lady.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Teleplay by Hans Bimla.
[SPEAKER_02]: Story by Pam Wigington and Rick Cason.
[SPEAKER_02]: And directed by Kim Friedman, a name we have not seen for a while.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know she was out there in the earlier seasons, but she's popping back in this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Guestars, Caitlyn Hopkins, as Kalana, F.J. Rio returns as Enrique Monies.
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you pronounce it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you say Monies?
[SPEAKER_02]: Robbie?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, would you say Monies?
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, I would say Moonias, Moonias, Moonias, Moonias, Moonias, Moonias, Moonias, Moonias
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because there are songs sometimes I was just listening to an Ed Sheeran song and it was he said grass and such an odd way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it was I thought no it's not odd to him right because he's not American so that must be his accent coming through and a lot of times when singers sing you don't hear it.
[SPEAKER_03]: correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're accent, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we get so used to call him's voice that we don't always consider that his accent does change how he pronounces stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's that's a valid point.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is valid point.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it pulled me out a little bit because at times he references
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... in reke as kk you hear kk kk is actually sort of a shortened way of saying in reke in spanish people that speak spanish will say kk so i'm thinking if you're using that you should the pronunciation of his actual last name should be
[SPEAKER_02]: spot on, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It pulled me out.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you know what a Nick Spanish nickname is, you should know how to pronounce his proper his family name.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's something that kind of bugged me a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: A small nitpick though.
[SPEAKER_01]: I noticed that too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, Kike as a short for Enrique reminds me of my son's name as Kyle.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I heard a Hawaiian person pronounce it kiili one time so we would like my daughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: We, yes, he likes my, I call Kyle kiili a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, that's yeah, he likes that is cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know about the key k thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That, that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That part took me out a couple of times because I thought wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's his name?
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought his name was Marie Kay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just interesting the things that can throw us off for watching.
[SPEAKER_02]: And at some point when he first says in KKK, I thought he said, you know how people text each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: They say KK, like, I'm going to come up with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also had nine o'clock KK, like KK.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I thought he was saying that KK,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but then he said, I thought he was actually a total of your old girl.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought he said.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how it sounded to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, that's not his name.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's why sometimes Star Trek was so, you know, militant about us saying things properly is because it leads to this kind of confusion.
[SPEAKER_01]: We all sort of were distracted by pronunciations or, and I think cleaning that up and making it consistent would have helped this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about a co-stars.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hillary Shepard as Hoya, as the Benzite on the shuttle, on the runabout.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was Hillary Shepard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, can you get it a recognized star, man?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's Hillary Shepard, help me out.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a very good actress.
[SPEAKER_00]: She came in to read for when I did rejoined.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and I got to sit on some of the casting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she came in and she was terrific.
[SPEAKER_00]: She didn't obviously get it, but she was terrific.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously they liked her enough to bring her in to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was in a band called a girl group called American Girls.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's before she saw it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, she was, that was when she was a baby and then she started going into acting and she started not seeing it out of the park She's power Rangers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, she was a main character in power Rangers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she was Yeah, so you've never worked with her up.
[SPEAKER_02]: You saw our photo, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Does she look familiar to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just type in the picture.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did I did
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, trivia.
[SPEAKER_02]: The exterior scenes were filmed at a gravel pit north of Los Angeles in Sold Dad Canyon.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the same location, the exact same location that was used for Cardassia four in the second season episode homecoming, as well as the fourth season episode in discretion, which it served as Desaria was the location.
[SPEAKER_02]: One thing that had had in common when they were filming for homecoming is that the temperature was off of the charts.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did not expect it to reach 112 degrees or whatever it was insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was hell.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were all dying.
[SPEAKER_02]: You were all dying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in my gosh, releasing the one of us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Caitlyn Hopkins who plays Kalana, she was quoted as saying that in one take, as they were going, she heard a clunk and she turned around.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the Jim Hadar background actors had passed out and just fallen over.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he was, oh my god, completely just heat.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is it called?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, heat stroke stroke.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have that kind of heat that much prosthetics.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jerry and his team had They had gone out to get sea breeze and ice and then they put the towels around your neck and your wrists.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean just think about poor Michael Dorn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can head on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had wool underneath my hair to have so it was like I was wearing a wool hat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he had that all in his face to on top of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kim Freeman was saying she felt so bad because the crews were in shorts t-shirts and they were dying in just shorts and t-shirts.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kim Freeman said the crew was full of water on top of their heads.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when they said action by the end of the scene, that water was all evaporated.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing left.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's not exaggerating.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I really remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember how awful to them having to use because you know when you work outside a lot of times they have to do what's called bounce board and it's silver redirect to the sun.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the sunlight right at the archers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then the sun's not enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got the
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it was impossible not to complain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to say what's bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to say one thing about Caitlin Hopkins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Garrett, do you remember her envoy, what do you remember the episode where there was a bunch of like fake Janeway and fake two-voc and fake?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, she was fake Janeway.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was a polymer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oh, live faster and faster.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, same actress.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was on Voyager.
[SPEAKER_01]: She couldn't have faked.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she paid a fake chainway.
[SPEAKER_01]: She'd played, and she was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although dark hair blue eyes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's a terrific actress.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they all are.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and F. J. Rio.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wasn't it great?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to say I would say maybe didn't have to sugar quite as much, but I thought he was really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, working hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was working hard, but I didn't get to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That to me is a director thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: They should have said something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think generally I'll just give my two sense to kind of frame up my perspective on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: This episode had a great opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: to deal with paranoia, suspicion, trust, all those issues, and also death and dying and grieving.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like this episode was directed very intellectually.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there were shots and things that made it clear to me that Kim Friedman understood
[SPEAKER_01]: the ideas of the show, but I don't think that she was able to capture in the performances no, as much as she could have.
[SPEAKER_01]: From Caitlyn Hopkins, F.J. Rio, Cisco, call him everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt like they were sort of teaching us about this episode rather than experiencing it and really...
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know exactly where you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish they would just cut that out or it just it doesn't make sense for my character to not be more aware of.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Read the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Read the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm 350 years old, and I make that stupid joke, you know, if Julian did it, you go, he's being flipped, he's not mature enough, but all of us at that point, it was too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: especially with him dying.
[SPEAKER_02]: I asked myself when I was watching this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, okay, this is a season five episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone should have a grip on their characters.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything should be on cruise control at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I felt now that we talked about the oppressive heat, I almost wonder if that was a factor in not getting the complete performances that we needed because I received a message for all the
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so that wouldn't have affected any of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'd have that with heat.
[SPEAKER_00]: That feeds, that can feed the oppression, the fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can.
[SPEAKER_00]: The paranoia, everything, and that's what it should do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, well, anyway, I probably summarizing too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I do want to say before we get into it, that I am wearing our new Delta Flyers T-shirt,
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me see is a daily blogger website boldly staying in one place is what it says boldly staying on one place
[SPEAKER_00]: I do like the quality of the t-shirts that so comfy because it Rebecca that picks them out or is it you care it picks out the gear the quality of the t-shirts you pick out are phenomenal you can sleep in them yes that's the science sweatshirt is my favorite go to so cozy isn't it and I love so much how it's straight and not this bulbous you know a lot of
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but the kids weren't that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: They'd like big, but we like fit it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you can buy a bigger size if you want it to be loose.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just like that it doesn't make you look like the Michelin man.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or size does great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, well, if you want to be a cool kid and get our
[SPEAKER_01]: and ironic and uh... and where can we find that you can find it at the delta flyers uh... merch shop which is with the delta flyers dot org never been dot delta flyers the i'm typing it in right now dot delta dot delta flyers dot org and look at that and you need a lot of shop and then at the shop you can find this lovely shirt
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's fabulous blue ones too, did you see this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's funny for the first time, I'm so excited.
[SPEAKER_02]: Terry, as you watch that, we'll go ahead and jump into this as you show up.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we start with a captain's log, start at 804-9.3.
[SPEAKER_01]: The captain said, Mr. Cisco says, we're conducting a mineral survey of Torga4.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an uninhabited planet in the Gamma Quadrant.
[SPEAKER_01]: believed to contain vast deposits of Cornelian.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our mission is to determine the feasibility of establishing a mining operation on the planet's surface.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we cut down to this desert planet, that's the place you were talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: The gravel pit and sold out can it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of sandulate on the planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of the planet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my word.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Miles stops.
[SPEAKER_01]: He sits down, looks at a rock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Moonias comes over.
[SPEAKER_01]: He teaches him about the erosion differences in the rocks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is sort of establishing the banter between these two.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Moonias teases him for resting and being an old mountain man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miles says, well, you're due for a transfer pretty soon to waste extraction, so we do get some of this banter, which is interesting, but came out of left field for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, well, no, but he's had that type of banter with Munis, Munis in prior episodes, but this is my, this is my knock.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's, that, that chumminus, that sort of, that's what they're going to get.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't feel it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not there at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, especially the column call it playing or like he's annoyed that this guest star is even there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt it was sort of like, oh, God Yeah, wasted traction for you then.
[SPEAKER_02]: He kind of phoned it in.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like, yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it needed pay Sydney pay Sand Charming this and
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, well, is it also kind of odd that it's not, we've seen less of monies than we've seen of, who's the actor who annoys Odo, or the character that annoys Odo that's always was kind of around a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: for when Chiephal Brown was gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh uh, uh uh, uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, too close anyway, they're too adult men having this thing instead of like an intern vibe where you're like the kids right out of college, he's 21 eager and kind of silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not how Monus feels to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: He feels like they should have auditioned a new actor for a new character because we don't know Monus well enough that it doesn't pay off that we've seen him before who cares.
[SPEAKER_01]: It should have been a new person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the name of the younger.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could have found that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it would have been funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also the dialogue that they chose with the writers wrote.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was almost as if they were trying to have a reference to O'Brien, not O'Brien, a column.
[SPEAKER_02]: acting in a film, the 1995 film, the Englishman who went up a hill but came down a mountain.
[SPEAKER_02]: As you notice, there's a bunch of hills and mountains stuff going on in this, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's may have been an inside joke for the writers, but it didn't work for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think none of this landed.
[SPEAKER_02]: None of this landed to the point where I kept saying, where's the stakes in terms of the stakes of closeness, the bonding, the camaraderie, none of that is there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because this is imperative.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's imperative that they bond now for what happens later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I didn't get as impacted by it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't feel it now.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't care about FJ Reo's character.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't care about him.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have your name.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they're really so distracted by the heat that they weren't really able to play the scenes well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But maybe they didn't feel that chemistry didn't feel so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that's what it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think they just didn't have the chemistry and it should have been written differently.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so the chemistry was off, but I do feel that first scene is outside in the heat, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I it seemed like column was like playing it like let's finish it so I can get under some shade You know, it was just so many I don't want to deal with this right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's just none of the shots look like they were mourning or late afternoon Everything looked like it was The worst time of the day
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why didn't we get there?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who knows.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll tell us later.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure we'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we cut over by the base camp and Cisco's checking with the team to see if this would make a good formally mine, basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Dax says, yes, I think it would.
[SPEAKER_01]: Worf says supply lines would be hard, but not impossible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we get a call from the runabout and it's Hoya.
[SPEAKER_01]: a female Benzite.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says a ship is approaching.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've detected something dropping out of warp and she can't tell what kind of ship it is, but it's being pulled into the planet's gravity field and the team looks up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought this visit effect was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see this ship sort of street.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I have a make up plan?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, her eye, her makeup.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very interesting choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love that right away.
[SPEAKER_00]: The seams around the eye.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could see them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I mean, what, what do you close up and it drove me insane?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think that make up was, because Michael Westmore would always say that look at the animal books and try to find a make up from fish books or yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a monster.
[SPEAKER_02]: What was it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Bends that to me looks like a catfish and a frog together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looked like a reptile cat to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, I, I went, ooh, I like that they're experimented.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was definitely out of the box.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the quality of the makeup is off.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, it's just stupid when we have so many talented artists.
[SPEAKER_00]: That that one thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I'm certain that you know, it's it's also Production required Michael Westmore to come up with these things in a nanosecond And you can't get the highest quality if you're not giving your artists enough time to do the work They know how to do super well.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's frustrating to watch
[SPEAKER_02]: of course, a little bit of trivia for both of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Benzite were introduced before, so this is not the first time that they have been on Star Trek.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were in next generation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Their introduction was a next generation episode, but they have been spoken about in Deep Space
[SPEAKER_02]: in the very recent episode when the clingsons were talking about all their battle stories in that one scene where all of our main players went undercover as clingsons.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember that?
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're in the big that great hall and one of them said like, oh, I boarded that starfleet ship that and I
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so then I was like, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they have to wear some type of protective, you know, helms with a gear spray or exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then doing more research, Michael Kuda said, well, the Benzites have new technology, which allows them to have to be sitting there without a helmet.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's why this is a non-helmeted Benzite.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we do have a reference to the product.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just came up with a reason that they don't have to deal with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're so advanced now.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't need the breathing apparatus any longer.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, but anyway, interesting to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we see this thing crash, and then Cisco says, uh, beam us over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, beam us directly to the crash site.
[SPEAKER_01]: We cut over to the crash site.
[SPEAKER_01]: and we see that this giant ship has sort of dug itself into the ground and this crash site leaves a trail of burnt, you know, ground there, and it's upside down.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's upside down.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a jamadar where it's cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which I have behind me, by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a gym and our worship.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks kind of like a bug.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I always thought.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks like a stink bug or like a balloon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a bug.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bug.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a stink bug.
[SPEAKER_01]: They see this worship upside down and they start to investigate and that's when we go to our opening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our amazing opening credits.
[SPEAKER_01]: We come back a little later, they're looking around.
[SPEAKER_01]: O'Brien and Monius, look at the hatch, they're kind of investigating the seams of the hatch, the ship crashed upside down and they say this is a hatch for landing troops, this is a big hatch.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, Monius makes that point, which was I was thinking bombs came out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when he said that, I know, I love course.
[SPEAKER_02]: My nitpick is this when he asked about can it be open?
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, yeah, I think so and then later They talk about when they're inside.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, there's no warp core There's no this.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is so foreign to us.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't understand how the tech works here And then he's able to open it that easily on the outside Very quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: He opens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry right away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, don't nitpick about that yet Lenty more than it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay fine, all right, so they open half
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco and Worf jump inside and the ramp sort of swings open that was a big like those kind of things on a location set they have to move this set and then make it you know
[SPEAKER_01]: interactive in some way.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not easy to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, that wide shot is a visual effects extension.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they they probably built a small set piece for the tight shots and the coverage and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the wide shots were all an extension of a set extension with visual effects.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought that was kind of a what I remember it being life size and really
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was silver.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do remember being like near it and like it was even worse to be near something metal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, admitting the heat on top of it with the bounce sports.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, so you're saying that they built the an entire facade of the ship that is there was a portion.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I remember is a portion, but I could have eaten it's 30 years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could totally be wrong, but I do remember there was something there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, like Robbie sang that was yeah, but it was made of metal man version.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, boy, I mean, it wasn't the entire ship, but it was, oh, yeah, everybody was grumpy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every single one of us was like, I bet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they jump inside and I did like Kim Friedman's transition into this inside of this ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you were called, but the camera sort of did this twisting rotation to kind of say, Oh, we're going into, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: down the rabbit hole or Alice in Wonderland.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, down in a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, very suspense.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the learning and the inside too when we were in it with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just catching pieces of our faces.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a little ominous but felt empty.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, her shot making I thought was really smart and showed insight into the themes of this story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think what is missing here, and my memory of Kim Friedman when she directed us on Voyager was I don't mean to sound like critical or this is not personal.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'll just say my memory is that
[SPEAKER_01]: Kim, for me, didn't direct actors great.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was great with ideas and shots and technical stuff, but like finding an emotional kind of a fuel connection.
[SPEAKER_00]: Inaction?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great word.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she didn't fuel this episode very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the technical aspects, I think, are really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it almost kind of pulls the actors away from the emotional core of this and they're such.
[SPEAKER_01]: Potential in this episode that I was disappointed that it didn't reach that potential and just sort of was showing these cool rotation shots.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's cool But you got to keep going with the performance of the actors and I don't think that
[SPEAKER_01]: was successful, Mary.
[SPEAKER_00]: And is that interesting?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if, well, especially then it was very unusual to have a female director.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wonder if maybe if you were a female director in that time, if you would be more concerned with the technical things that men think you're not good at and not connect to the things that they think you'd be mushy about like the feelings and
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe an overcompensation for being for gender purposes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's very possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: My impression what I remember is feeling like she felt like a really nice principle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the principle of your school.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very organized, great with everybody, but not.
[SPEAKER_00]: less, less would talk to us more about our feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, throttle nugget in, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, less was great with finding simple ways to kind of kick start a performance idea or an emotional kind of idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, anyway, there's a great suspense sequence where they go through the whole ship securing different parts of it, and eventually they walk into the command center.
[SPEAKER_01]: where this gem hunter is hanging upside down because of ships upside down and they're all dead for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm going to get rid of this mouthful.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're always made me spit Coca-Cola out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're all dangling there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And O'Brien says they died from an inertial damper failure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So their bodies were literally thrown against the bulk as their bones crushed.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all been hurt dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is insanity.
[SPEAKER_01]: The saddest thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: The saddest thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they get slammed against a bulkhead and every bone is shattered.
[SPEAKER_02]: The force of that must have been incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: They must have been, they came at a war, or they were even, you know, I don't have one.
[SPEAKER_01]: They would be like instant instantaneous.
[SPEAKER_01]: they also would probably be splattered in to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I didn't understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: They should be be liquid up.
[SPEAKER_02]: They should be liquid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's still a family show.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's early 90 or mid 90s.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not gonna.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they see the ship is engineered very differently than Starfleet ships.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're trying to understand it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco says this is incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: We found a gem at our ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: This will be great intelligence.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's tractor it back to the station.
[SPEAKER_01]: A Brian says, well, we're not going to haul it out of here with a run about in Cisco ends with, well, we're going to need something with a little more muscle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we're going to get this.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's coming?
[SPEAKER_01]: Which by the way, we never see Kira says she's going to head there anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a little bit worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: We never saw her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, never shows up.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Never.
[SPEAKER_01]: Involve.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, in the next scene, we do go back to the station.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're back on DS9.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now we see Quark.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can we see Bashir?
[SPEAKER_02]: They're with Odo.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we find out both Quark and Bashir are in trouble.
[SPEAKER_02]: We always assume it's always just going to be Quark.
[SPEAKER_02]: But no.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Bashir is a part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're like wondering, what the heck?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going on, Kira's there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did like this dialogue, by the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you?
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a conspirator.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it was like, what would you call yourself then?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it, it, it's all by all by that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the pacing was good, like the actors were able to find their performance tone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a nice, refreshing scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're in the fourth season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we in the fourth season?
[SPEAKER_00]: The fifth season, the fifth season.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just started.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just wanted to.
[SPEAKER_02]: They just wanted to.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just wanted to.
[SPEAKER_02]: They just wanted to.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was my joke and that was my little thing that extend us if we could but the whole but back to the episode though the whole reason why they are in trouble is because Quark smuggled these regalian fleece spiders on but he did it for Kira because there's something in their venom that was going to help her with her circulation Clearly to do with her pregnancy right to help her out well be yes
[SPEAKER_00]: The spiders were ordered by Dr. Bashir.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bashir, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: From court.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where he said he was stupid.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where he was the best court, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And court did one other thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: He then also imported these regalian liquid crystals, which are basically a some type of afrodesiac that could be a little deadly or a little dangerous.
[SPEAKER_02]: So all of this stuff needs permits.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And none of the permits were filled out.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now they have to pay.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's selling joy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Kira does not have time for the she's like, I like Kira's response.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, she's like, you guys need to work this out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing the defining to help Cisco.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm writing right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, it's a cute little residual scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And refreshing to get away from the hideous areas.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this makes me want more of this talk about before you do a one or this is the only scene for the B storyline is right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There should be at least two more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean there should be in three that least right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we wanted that as an audience, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: To see more research and course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we go back to the crash site after this and we never leave.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... cool big wide shot here moonias is helping miles with some engineering advice uh... to help get the thrusters working get the ship out of here and uh... a brand is impressed by moonias ideas and he says well maybe not no waste extraction for you after all so more banter but again not totally successful in my opinion not at all yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's like reading, it was almost like a table read, you know what they should have done instead of Munez, it should have been Jake's a scow.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then he would have to die though.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we'll kill somebody else, but it should be, it should be a new case.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when Jake was his apprentice, they had a great banter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forget it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So have another red shirt and have them get killed.
[SPEAKER_00]: But not, but not this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he's injured, but doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll leave.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm gonna
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's got a job for the for the story to make sense like but yeah needs to be more chemistry and they need it somebody like Jake or like, you know, Jake made I like the younger chance to go good yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like a pit bull about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, I'm sorry, F.J. Rio, which we're so sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not her fault.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not personal and it's not, it's not even, it's about the execution and how it comes off.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't succeed in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Column needed to do the lines in a much more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: In a way, and not literally wanting to send them off or feel, it came off like he felt competitive with him to me a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it didn't feel fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt kind of mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the onus is on Kim Friedman to make sure that these things pop a little bit more a little bit on column, you know, like we just saw something with Odo and Odo and this year in Quark where I
[SPEAKER_01]: I would guess the actors took care of business and knew what they needed to do, so column could have known what he needed to do better and I think been more successful in this even if the director wasn't helping him out.
[SPEAKER_01]: He could have taken control a bit more.
[SPEAKER_02]: which is surprising because he usually does.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my usually so that's why it could be the take they picked too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do my in my imagination if I were doing that scene, I can totally see a director coming up and saying, that's not funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds too harsh.
[SPEAKER_00]: There needs to be some irony.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the top lighten it up, laugh a little like, have fun, play a play a game with
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it looks like you guys don't have chemistry and that's because you're not in the scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can create chemistry, but both parties need to be aware that both actors need to be aware that it's their responsibility to find something they like about the other actor, because it's coming across that you don't like him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not the intention of the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to do an exercise with actors when I was looking for them to get present, to be present and listen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to have fun and play a game, I would say, I'd say, I want you guys to play a game where you can't say the word what, but I want you to have a conversation with no pauses, back and forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can ask questions, you can talk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, here we go, three, two, one go, and they would be like,
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you today?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm doing good.
[SPEAKER_01]: What did you do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, busted.
[SPEAKER_01]: I caught you.
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you'd play this game.
[SPEAKER_01]: And once they started playing it, you can't say the word what?
[SPEAKER_01]: You start to realize it's just a simple exercise.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it got people present.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, now what you're feeling, that energy put it into the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: You put that energy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're paying attention to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're having fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're playing a game.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all we're doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would create an energy that people instead of intellectualizing, oh, you guys have chemistry and you should be teasing each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all intellectual.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how this whole episode felt to me was very intellectualized and not owned.
[SPEAKER_01]: by Cisco, by O'Brien, by anybody, even by DAX.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to be honest.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you're trying so hard not to say it, you've already, and I was like giving it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it was, I want to give you permission to say it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that you don't think we got it from the top.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think it came from the top because it was so universal and consistent.
[SPEAKER_01]: that I think it came from the way that you were being teachered a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, let's teach this episode rather than let's live it and experience it and bring it to life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's show we know the themes and
[SPEAKER_02]: and lessons of this episode by our shots, by our, well, you know, Robbie, okay, do you know, you've served before, right, have both of you, you're not a great, okay, ski, a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's the thing, if you don't paddle fast enough to catch the wave, you never catch the wave, okay, you end up, and the problem here is the very first scene that we see, Munez, and O'Brien, is outside in that crappy ass
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the first paddling for the wave scene, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't catch the wave at all, so because of that, it was flat for me the entire time because they missed that opportunity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's that wave and ignore the heat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because honestly, it really looked like column was like, I'm done with this heat.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's fast like they're with this scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to just speak these words and be dumb with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even care about my emotion here, you know, and that's what I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: If we had writers on set, you could say maybe we could add something about the heat to integrate us after O'Brien makes the comment about he will not send Munis to waste extraction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Warf does come in and talks about they buried the bodies on the other side of the ridge.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were 42 Jemodar who died in that crash as well before the crash and then one Vorda And at that point we have an off camera hail from Hoyas saying that there's another warship That's shown up another one Don't you think it's kind of remarkably fast how worth and I
[SPEAKER_00]: buried the bodies because work and I come in.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm sure you guys that's a lot of yes we should have like sweat all over Oh my gosh, I'm sure sweating a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we can patting you down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't sweat here
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jerry would complain that no matter how much dirt I put on you by the time they say action, it all comes off and I didn't brush it off.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just how funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like repelling.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: your hands.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so you guys should be really messy and dirty and sweaty.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good caught.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good catch.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we get the hail from Hoya.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's another gem of our ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: And guess what, they are actually firing on them and before.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... they can even warp go to war poya says they've locked phasers on us hard to port uh... shields are down engage warp and that's when everything fritz is out we do have a shot of uh... our gang looking up in the sky and we see basically the uh... explosion uh-huh runabout which is horrible really i mean we've already caroia poor hoi
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was the make-up was not done correctly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what happens in Star Trek.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what happens when you don't wear your protective helmet with air breathing tube.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, oh, I mean, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and how much, why don't we have a moment of silence?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there really wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't have time for that, because that's when the Gemidar actually beam down to a planet surface and start firing on our heroes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was true.
[SPEAKER_02]: I forgot about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what's used to go yells.
[SPEAKER_02]: Inside, inside.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have a chance in the open.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when Mondia's gets shot in the stomach.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, probably I'm just going to say in my reaction video, I say the reason why Cisco says we don't have a chance in the open is because none of them, none of them remembered how to aim their phasers is what I said because no, no, a single Gemma dog gets hit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you noticed that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's firing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Warf is firing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dax is a big one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but somebody should have hit one Gemma
[SPEAKER_02]: That one got hit.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's got the medical kit, by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got the main detail later, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Munis gets shot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: They talk about how Geminar weapons actually are made to when they hit you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anti-coagulant, yes, they sit there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You die slowly on purpose, because that everyone else in the unit has to help and transport the wounded to it's slow down.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it takes a lot of energy to talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's part of the rage.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, we are.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the name of the guy to get shot, Robbie?
[SPEAKER_02]: Tell me where.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why isn't to lore still like, uh, I'm feeling like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like he's having a bit bumped his head.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so yeah, the concussion.
[SPEAKER_00]: The concussion is head.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little head.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which I don't even know what he really is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a whole alien.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the short ball day on the, I don't know, he had little, he had little bugs in the top of the writing.
[SPEAKER_00]: We grabbed the medical kit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: I go back out when the bomb stopped.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's God.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, when we do this, it drives me insane because I can enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's, there's big holes in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are we ruining it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope we're not ruining it for anybody because there's a lot of things to love in this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of great stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: This next sequence, they go inside the ship and they're hiding and I thought this was really well done.
[SPEAKER_01]: The footsteps, they're looking up above, hiding out, all the suspense moments, like really really effective.
[SPEAKER_01]: They hear the footsteps right above them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Cisco's like, let's move to the command center and this is miles and
[SPEAKER_01]: Still continuing this kind of old guy, young guy, banter bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: When he just seems okay in this, he's like, doesn't he say something like, I'll keep an eye on you or I'll help you through it or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, he's going to help him Brian out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he says don't worry, happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll get you through this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And no Brian says, I feel better already.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is where they should have been at the first scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, which they were not at at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do like the inclusion of Spanish words in here to kind of call back to the heritage of the mooniest moon.
[SPEAKER_00]: And more, the more out of it he got, I think the more he should have been speaking Spanish.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he does later, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We talk about the fireworks and everything, but you're saying almost all Spanish at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, say the whole thing in Spanish.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every Spanish.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's definitely better banter in this little section where he's talking about, you know, I'll walk you through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we learn that Moonias is hurt worse than it seemed outside that he's getting, and we feel in this scene that he's worried that he's not, he's starting to lose some of his bravado here a little bit, asked how long until, you know, the defiance going to
[SPEAKER_01]: You can tell that he's worried by the end of this scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can tell that Minus is worried and a brand is worried too.
[SPEAKER_01]: This scene for me worked a lot better than the previous ones in terms of their connection and banter.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was definitely better in this kind of moment of a turn from two buddies to they care about each other and they're worried about each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is interesting that this is the relationship all three of us agree that was a misstep from the Gengeng and that it took us out because you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot of good things about this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: The potential for this episode, like Robbie said earlier, was mass-class huge potential in this episode, which was not lived up to unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a little later, Dax comes back in with the battery pack for a Brian.
[SPEAKER_01]: They get this power going.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we've learned that Moonias needs a fresh bandage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miles tears his sleeve off and tells him to stop leaving or he's going to run out of clothes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So clearly some some time has passed.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's torn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I go out for a battery pack, why can I, why didn't I grab the med kit?
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe did you go outside?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I thought you went another part of the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you've thought you found that battery pack and another part of the ship inside was you guys didn't go back out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the bombing still happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: They haven't started bombing yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: They haven't started yet, but they're really sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but you're nervous about other Jim Adore outside.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think you went outside at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: You got it for the ship for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so too.
[SPEAKER_02]: My nitpick is, it is not easy to tear off a piece of your undershirt like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was like tear away, like rip away.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's very strong.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miles O'Brien.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, he's an iron man.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a beef case.
[SPEAKER_00]: Underneath the little bit of iron.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the mountains of Ireland.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Irish shrink.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: There.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: um, it calls on the calm, which by the way, I didn't like the sound design of this calm.
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounded like, like, the announcements in elementary school when they came on the... Yeah, it was kind of echoey.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of...
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't sound like...
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounded... Never, they did to that sound.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like that choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't sound like we were on Star Trek D-Space.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it sounded like a different thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds like they were making a school announcements.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we should have it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: After school, today.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was out of body, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like.
[SPEAKER_02]: It should have been, it should have been to Kalana's lunches that Captain Cisco, my name is Kalana.
[SPEAKER_02]: The boy's cross country team, what took second place?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you get that play?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would have been funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, she calls.
[SPEAKER_01]: She wants to talk to Cisco.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she sounds concerned.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I hear you have casualties.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feared that you might have been one of those casualties.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she seems like a very nice Vorda so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She suggests a face to face, meaning they can each bring one person.
[SPEAKER_01]: He agrees.
[SPEAKER_01]: Out we go, she's very charming to him in the scene, flattering him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's very standoff.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't trust her.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, because she's charming.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's charming is a red flag.
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially with the Vorto, I didn't like this whole banter here about how salvage rights and old legal tradition because I felt like Cisco's a kind of guy that would be like, you know what, this is your vessel, take it, you know, it just bugged me that he, this was the ground that he decided to die on this piece of, you know, battle here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm not going to give up this ship at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, why?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, it's not even your ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to go back and reverse engineer everything, I suppose.
[SPEAKER_00]: old legal tradition, old legal, yeah, yeah, just bug me a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Find your speakers.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to sit back.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says salvage rights is my claim to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We found it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says you're surrounded.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got you surrounded.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems foolish.
[SPEAKER_01]: and she offers some food.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says, you know, maybe you should eat something before you go, go inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's being very suspiciously nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, suspiciously nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, don't forget, we know the defiant is coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if we can hold them off and stay in those two days and that's probably why Cisco has this, I'm sticking to my ground here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I know the defiance coming, just to inform this a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to forget those tiny things.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do see inside a corridor, a gem hadar beams in, we don't know who this is, and then shrouds himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he just running down the corridor.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, we don't want to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: A little confusing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is confusing and I still don't understand was that the changeling from later on, or I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, but because he, remember, he's the one, the guy that beams in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Definitely not the change in.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because he places that one device that looks like a... Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: A boring spider device or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bulkhead.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't know about the change thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have no clue.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have no clue about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's just strengthening it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This guy beams in, I don't know where and we don't really know who he is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what he's doing, and we still don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it was this spider device.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, maybe it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they postulate, well, we think it was a censor thing to see how many people were inside here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that made me mad, because if this is your tech,
[SPEAKER_02]: If this is your tech, you should have sensors that can penetrate into and see how many people humans are in there, how many starfleet.
[SPEAKER_02]: You should have that tech at all ready to see them saying they're saying they're making it sound like it's so protective that the walls of that ship are so
[SPEAKER_02]: thick that they can't even get in and so this guy beams in and puts in a device.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't even know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think I beam in and take what she wants.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that what you're saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I think that here's what I just occurred to me because we're inner cutting between Cisco and Kalana and she's offering these Kalavas to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's feeding him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think this whole charming being nice is to distract Cisco out of there so she can send her dude in
[SPEAKER_01]: to find the chance or to find the change language.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then why would we trust her at all after this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: She is obviously the person who sent the gem hatar in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: That guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it didn't make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't run into the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Me neither.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seemed like why didn't they all come in and just a blitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, she hangs out with Cisco, says this is her very first mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her very first time dealing with the Federation.
[SPEAKER_01]: She just plays herself off as being very innocent and naive.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems suspicious.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she often, she looks like Sheryl and Finn.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's the sexy part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's offering him food?
[SPEAKER_00]: And wait, no, it was way too much about him.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was creepy too.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would never make me feel like I'm going to trust you if you're telling me personal things about like my child.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like danger well Robinson.
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's an episode just so you know Terry where we it's a been established.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you reviewed that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been established at the Voida use Captain Cisco's case as they're training tool for all the other Voida.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Jeffrey Combs talks about Jeffrey Combs as way you and says like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know, in our vorta, whenever we learn about humans, we use your case files, so they know everything about Cisco.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's part of a throwback to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sorry, you know what, I've been traveling too much, but I do sort of let them run and keep watching, but when I'm traveling like this, it's insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: Understood.
[SPEAKER_00]: nowhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what my problem was this, Robbie, in this scene, when she says, if you leave the ship, I'll take you and your crew back to your space station.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unharmed, our accommodations might not be lavish, but I promise you, you'll all be well cared for, especially your wounded.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought this is a great part for Cisco.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really, will it prove that?
[SPEAKER_02]: He'll one of our wounded.
[SPEAKER_02]: Moon yes, let's see what you can do with that and then we'll talk after that That's this is the That was where he could say yeah, oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have been like where he could just say hey while I'm outside here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I grab that med kit that's gonna be
[SPEAKER_01]: Could I have that right over here on the run this 20 feet away from me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why don't I grab that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why even act just take it?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's ours.
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I don't think that Medkit would help with that that weapon being a slow kind of killing damage.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when there be one of Dr. Bashir's magic healer things that all the doctors in Star Trek have is the one where he fix that kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Arm remember that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Broken arm is a little different from a gemidar weapon that's made to do cellular or whatever it is that they could let's say that it may not have worked, but it's worth a draw.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's worth a draw.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Could stop him from bleeding.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but she could have got he could have gotten that out of Kalana easily, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Kalana would have churped up.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll heal that one dude like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: No problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, no problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: We should have been in the writers room.
[SPEAKER_02]: We should we should have rid this whole episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're back inside the gym and our ship more Dutch angles definitely Confreedman was in this Dutch angle on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is a Dutch angle?
[SPEAKER_01]: Good when the cameras tilted sideways.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's not straight on.
[SPEAKER_02]: It actually can make it It creates this dizzying sort of it's an effect that you want to have when you're trying to love this Orient.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're like what was it made famous by someone with the last name Dutch
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, Robbie.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was a German word.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a mispronouncement.
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a mispronouncement.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't say that of a German word that referred to making someone uneasy, like creating a psychological disturbance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: German expressionists cinema is what sort of started it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in the 1930s, 20s and 30s, that sort of expressionist, very geometric kind of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it would create a,
[SPEAKER_01]: uh, an uncomfortable sensibility.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the name should have called it is very fascinating, but it should have been called Germany or Tutonic Angle or Deutsch Angle, or maybe that's how it started as Deutsch and then became Dutch because someone's called the umla.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's our pronunciation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that it's spelled wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just we say it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Rosh as opposed to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They go to sea, and this is where they spot that Borg spider on the wall, that scanner.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dax's checking it out, she's scanning it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says it's some kind of sensor when a gem had our beams in, attacks them.
[SPEAKER_01]: As the attack starts, we whip outside to Warf saying Captain, they're in the ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wish that they had started the whip pan off of the fight and continued it on to Warf, because it was kind of half baked,
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the energy of it, but the transition seemed a little disconnected, but but the energy is definitely shifting into this fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go back in the corridor miles is almost killed and this is where Mune's saves him basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's about to stab all Brian, this is what he's about to stab him and this is where Mune's shoots the the Gemhadar, so he saves miles which is
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a question for Terry, in that hand-to-hand combat scene where you're fighting the Gemma-Dar, at one point it's you and then it goes straight to your stunt double when you get back handed in the face.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is your stunt double much shorter than you or was she your same height?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I felt like shorter.
[SPEAKER_02]: You seem like she was five foot three.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, why would I say my old stunt double left to become a firefighter and later suddenly passed away from cancer and I think her name was Casey and she was took a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we were the same height.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then after that, I think Pat did a lot of the stuff and she's in a nausea, which is much shorter than me, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you mean this patty talk about Pat, patty to almond?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because this is not bad for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, this is not bad for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm reading it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Her name is Karen Colvett was a stunt double for Terry and there's a Karen C. A. R. O. N. Colvett.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was a stuntwoman in Stun Actress who served as one of the stunt doubles for Terry Ferrell and Star Trek D-Space 9.
[SPEAKER_02]: She received no credit for her work, however her name appears on a pair of boots sold off on its a rap sale in auction on eBay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: She, I think she's the one that was the same height as me or very close.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just from her face, my memory is not of her being a short person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever angle they shot that at, it seemed like she was teensy.
[SPEAKER_02]: The start double.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yeah, maybe it was the angle.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so moving on, we are in the command center.
[SPEAKER_01]: O'Brien's got this alien device.
[SPEAKER_01]: They discuss the scanner and the attacks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco thinks there's something about this ship that they really want.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't know what it is though.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why they're not risking a full assault.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Dax says, we're gonna need a full scan of the ship, structural blueprints, everything to try to figure out what it is that they are looking for.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Cisco says get started.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we cut to a little aside with Muneus thinking he's dying and Miles says, no, now he's gonna be fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: He reassures him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco comes to check on him and Moniz keeps this banter going, even though he's getting worse and worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is where Miles and Cisco step aside.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miles is really worried.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where we learned about the anti-coagulant in the Jim Adar shot that is not healing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, they can't stop the bleeding.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Cisco says, well, we need the power
[SPEAKER_01]: and you go back to work on the ship, get back to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's in order.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's kind of insisting that a Brian put his attention on work and
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is a wide establishing shot to show some time passing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it felt very slapped together.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a couple of gems that are walking for no apparent reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't feel like it helped escalating.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a thing energy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're just kind of loving by it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, dude, why not?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I was Steven Bear wanted this episode to be like the alamo.
[SPEAKER_02]: the alamo.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the alamo, we all know the American forces were extremely outnumbered by thousands and thousands of Mexican national army guys, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So that is what I thought was missing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if this is, if, and now we have a fight.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it also should have been like for death.
[SPEAKER_02]: It should have been hundreds of Jim Hadar there because they're there for one reason to save that founder, which is their God.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not going to send four Jim Hadar there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what it looked like, four Jim Hadar were there to kind of fight.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was like, huh, huh?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I had a problem with that big time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it didn't feel like that wide shot was helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually the opposite of helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fuller.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we didn't escalate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the opposite way for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we cut that inside after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why shot DAX miles and war for there?
[SPEAKER_01]: And DAX says that this ship is similar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chief, structurally, a lot about the ship's design matches other gem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Other gem we've seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, similar to those.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but there are differences in the ship and so a Brian says he can restore power maybe one system at a time Because they don't really understand this ship so well and Dax tells miles that mutemunias is gonna be okay This is where Warf goes no No, he's not gonna be okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's dying
[SPEAKER_01]: and he should prepare for death, and Miles gets really triggered by this.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's ready to fight him about it, and he says, this boy's life is in our hands, and I'm not going to give up on him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is where Daq sort of walks a warful way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's separate these guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, he's, yeah, who emotionally involved here.
[SPEAKER_00]: but I'm also feeling like, oh my gosh, aren't we kind of just keep revisiting the same kind of scenes over and over again?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like being stuck in the cave when they were going to make it like a Indiana Jones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it doesn't feel like anything's changing here, escalating or no.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's very one note.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Robbie this scene really reminds me, especially with Warf coming in saying he's he's done.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when he says it was over the moment he was shot by the gem and are in response to a Brian saying if he gives up it's over.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was very reminiscent of the scene when if you recall when the founder
[SPEAKER_02]: was female founder when Odo becomes human in that episode with a few female founder was on the ship talking and Garrett comes up to Talk to her and she's like you're dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're all dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah Cordassia's dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: The moment he would attack this and this is like he's dead the moment he was shot by the habit Same thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was very fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was this feeling of finale like it's done.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're you're you're up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah up because
[SPEAKER_02]: with that a battle symbolory.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's the vibe I got in terms of the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we cut a little later back to the command center and Moonyus is shivering here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's shaking.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going into shock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Kalana calls on the Intercom again, like the school office calling to show the floor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sound was just not great.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a shame.
[SPEAKER_01]: She asked to meet it outside again in
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you're annoyed with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I understand.
[SPEAKER_01]: You feel betrayed, but, you know, let's go talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, the writers felt that this was one of the mistakes they made.
[SPEAKER_02]: They should never have brought anyone outside, bringing Cisco outside sort of lowered the tension of, of this suspense of what's about to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: They should have stayed in that damn thing the entire time, just like the troops at the Alamo stayed in the fort and didn't run out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so this was another
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we cut out sides, Cisco's got a phaser rifle, this time pointed at her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She admits that they are looking for something on the ship and says that, you know, just let them have what we want and you can keep the ship and Cisco says, well, tell them what it is, you know, tell me what it is and we'll bring it out to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: and she loses patients at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I feel like we've reached an impasse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Negotiations are over, and this is where Cisco runs back to the ship, jumps inside the hatch with warf and the battle begins.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is when the bombing starts.
[SPEAKER_02]: The bombing beginning in the bombing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, they're trying to do the alamo, where the Mexican troops are firing cannons at the alamo over and over again.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were being bombarded for hours.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the state that they were trying to get to, where they were constantly being bombarded.
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't see any of the barrage.
[SPEAKER_02]: We heard it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We didn't see any of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we don't really need to see it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But we heard it, but it didn't escalate
[SPEAKER_02]: the tensions with it because they're supposed to be all of our heroes are supposed to be on edge and like a live wire we're like like everything bombing around them they can't take it any longer because there's a one scene that comes up a little bit later where this was like pull it together folks and he's sitting here saying that but the stakes weren't that high everyone was kind of like yeah we're inside this yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there wasn't that energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it wasn't as focused as it would be.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're missing an arc to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything felt very much the same level even flow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very flow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very flat.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a scogot mad and there were moments where all of us had lost our temper.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not in a way that then when we lost it, that we stayed elevated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't consistent.
[SPEAKER_02]: It didn't go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you see the directors job to work with the script supervisor to make sure that we're all in the same tone and the same You're shooting things out of order.
[SPEAKER_00]: So other people have to pay attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why we all have different jobs on a set because our one job is Mentally should be all we're thinking about right you should most be all in the same page
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and that's why we work together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we cut back inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: The battle has begun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miles has the power up and going, but now the ship's being attacked.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says things are starting to shut down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Monius is even worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's definitely in shock.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Dax goes to comfort him a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we learn the border.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not trying to destroy the ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're firing these concussion shelves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trying to rattle them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trying to get them to just give up or give them what they want.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the quick fix would have been for audio or whoever's editing this to make those bombs louder.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, where they have to like really talk loud and scream, you know, we get their thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: How about the ship to just ship me a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is where Dax makes a joke where they say the board doesn't want the ship.
[SPEAKER_01]: She wants something on board it.
[SPEAKER_01]: A Brian says any idea what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco, it could be anything and coding device guidance system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Daxes, maybe she lost an earring.
[SPEAKER_00]: Seriously, do they do any favors?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, they didn't do any.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that is there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's kind of a throughline.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are times when they have written my character to make these stupid ass jokes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's incongruent with the character.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the circumstances.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the circumstances.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're at the Alamo,
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't feel like the right here program.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was madening.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was madening when I would have to do that because it wasn't funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't seem like my character from everything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: They wrote about me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it just odd.
[SPEAKER_02]: Terry, can I just say, I think the writers in their mind when they wrote that, they thought, okay, Dax has the experience of all these different lifetimes that she's lived.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's the most calm in the midst of battle of anyone here because she survived everything, so she's trying to calm everyone down by throwing in a funny line is what I think the writers see.
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes me feel a lot better.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it still doesn't land.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it didn't not land, it didn't land, but I think that's the impetus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but their motivation, thank you for saying that that makes me feel a lot better.
[SPEAKER_00]: It really does, because it feels like...
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, well, from that angle, it does make sense though, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: If they're talking about tax being a seven lifetime old.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I have ADHD, and I say stupid shit like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, and I'm like, what just came out of your mouth?
[SPEAKER_00]: Seriously, and you can't help it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the, it's just a madening brain function malfunction or, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it, yeah, I hear you're sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's frustrating.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, I think Moony has a shakes should have ended, like you're in shock, and then don't you go still after that after a while?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you?
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't stay like shaking there.
[SPEAKER_01]: The entire time?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it seemed like a lot of shit here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there becomes a different level after that.
[SPEAKER_02]: He does stop shaking because he starts talking about fireworks later, though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's about to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, so is that where we're at right now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is the scene where we're not.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, we cut a little time has passed.
[SPEAKER_01]: O'Brien says he's got the weapon up and running this canon thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's stuck in one position and one uses really bad in the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's hallucinating about this childhood memory.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's, fireworks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seeing fireworks and Miles plays along with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dax says that the, the gem had our travel very lightly.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have very little stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: She did find some data crystals in the computer room.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says, Worf comes in with a computer console that is ripped off the wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my word.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dax is teasing him here.
[SPEAKER_01]: They kind of bicker.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that bothered me too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I shouldn't have said I was just kidding.
[SPEAKER_00]: I should have said, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I lost my temper or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wasn't joking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So why would I say I was joking?
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the bickering felt a little misplaced here, but if we had tension elevating and elevating, then it feels like appropriate and don't say you're joking.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like we're just up against it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Araya apologize, but not this,
[SPEAKER_01]: I was kind of, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miles goes to Worf to look at the console that he's ripped off the wall and Worf says to him, hey, this is no way for Muneus to die in this kind of suffering and pain and they start arguing about it because Worf's basically saying, put him out of his misery.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miles does not want to do that and Cisco just snaps here and he tells him, stop fighting.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where Dax makes another joke.
[SPEAKER_00]: God, tough guys, a little pressure and they buckle.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just lost my Texas.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he takes a swing swing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he takes a swing at Warf, Warf stops it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when Cisco says enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your Starfleet officer stop acting start acting like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's really lost it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, it didn't warrant that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Cisco, I'm going to say this.
[SPEAKER_02]: He did a good job in his line reading of
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, that's enough, you start, you're start, you're start fleet offers now, start acting like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the, the hubbub that's supposed to happen before that line wasn't at that level.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so, yeah, it's like, why are you telling them to get a hold of themselves when they kind of already have a hold of themselves?
[SPEAKER_02]: Cause they're not even, there's no tension here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Dax's response is to make a joke, oh, tough guys are a little pressure and they buckle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco snaps at you, Dax.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you haven't known us, notice no one's laughing.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's getting really stressed out looking at the intention of me losing my temper and Brian losing his temper and warf it just feels like the the scene wasn't written correctly or directed correctly because the word actually I think the words are there it just didn't build in a way
[SPEAKER_00]: you know what I mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and again, and it could have been up to say tough guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dax, you know, I wouldn't have had to say more.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just some of it needs to be tighter.
[SPEAKER_00]: The writing needed to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also the direction should have been on top of it reminding us that we're even though the defiance coming We're up against it right now and we shouldn't be treating this like well the defiance coming We'll have our rectidino any moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: What if the defiance gets in a battle with the gemhadar they know we're there and they just shut down the run about
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're focused on this one place as being stuck in this gymnasist ship.
[SPEAKER_00]: There should have been a lot more going on to make it look like everything is Harry Carrey where
[SPEAKER_02]: part of that is a show on the defiant right it's the shelling the shelling wasn't loud enough it wasn't moving around it was everything was totally still inside there like you guys were in a goddamn library or something you know even though we're professional it should be eventually starting to rattle us annoy more than this thing there's no rattling.
[SPEAKER_02]: at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and everything great swinging it of of Brian at Warf was sort of like where'd that come for?
[SPEAKER_02]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He said one thing they kind of pissed him off, but that swing would only happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: If everyone's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, it's swing, make it land, make it okay, you didn't kill them, but make it land, let it land, let them be in a scuffle a little bit more so that it's real.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it does feel like this whole episode is a bit herky jerky, you know, it's like it's not there's not things that build like a musical kind of build to a crescendo and reset it's just.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: that would have been great like a roller coaster ride except for every next hill is even bigger than the last one yeah yeah and even when Cisco gets control of things he's like chief I want that power great up and riding on Brian's as I serve Cisco says commander war if I see if you can get that to turn it to rotate
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's response was like, I sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I swear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there was something else at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, and I say yes or a little bit like you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I swear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, as I walk by him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are we so relaxed?
[SPEAKER_00]: We shouldn't be this relaxed.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, well Cisco's not relaxed.
[SPEAKER_01]: He snaps it everybody at the end of the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She if I went to power grid up and running,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, search search this ship again and see if I'm with the border one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wound you as you stay alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's kind of.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, what is the only one that's kind of lost.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone else is kind of like, you know, a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, it's the loudness of the of the brush.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, how much more would it, how much more powerful would it have been as we are all doing our best.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: Cisco is still losing his shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that would be even more interesting because we're all like just trying to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're having more passion talking about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we're having episode it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then in the episode itself, well, there's a captain's log coming up next.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says the Gemha Dars' barrage has continued on and off for 10 hours.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my word, that would drive anyone nuts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: 10 hours of explosions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Chief of Brian is restored the main power and the helm control.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we can bring the ship's engines online, maybe we can lift off and escape.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we cut back to the command center.
[SPEAKER_01]: They try to launch the ship basically in this very dramatic sequence, but the ship can't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They cannot get it going.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then miles after this big dramatic attempt, he goes over to check on moonias.
[SPEAKER_01]: Moonius is dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's died very sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote down it could have been sad or like I feel like because it wasn't the emotion wasn't established as real and authentic now this moment didn't quite land.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they drug it out in a way that kept revisiting it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know there was something about he seemed to be in the same place for a long
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, just, yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was just something in the house.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could cut into him and it was too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: The same story, the same story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Moon is his dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: A Brian has a moment of shock about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a time, time cut here and Cisco's feeling the way to this mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: He talks about five people have died.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot for Star Trek like to be that specific.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though I know sometimes we blow up ships.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for this story, these five people that were on this mission and a small group on a mission, five people have died.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were just discovering minerals.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we weren't like in this, we weren't that already.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wasn't an armen who said that, Robbie, that DS9 has a highest body count of deaths of any show.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he just, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he did.
[SPEAKER_02]: And but but to give credit to this episode of having the most potential.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the one episode that actually talked about the consequences of actual deaths.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying that they were real deaths of real people that we know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it would have helped if a Brian called Enrique Munez key K in the prior times that we've seen moves.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_02]: If that little nickname had already been given to us or introduced to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had the chemistry from the first scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: While they're feeling the weight of these people that have died, a little goo hits the ground, and two splats of glue, two splats of glue, and suddenly more, and then a piece of equipment on the ceiling morphs, and it's a changeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The changeling drips to the floor, tries to attack them, tries to form into something maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it oozes down into a pile of goo and can't hold the shape.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can't hold the shape.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it groans and dies.
[SPEAKER_01]: We cut outside in the scene and the gemhadar and kalana are just standing still in a line up listening to the groan from outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: It didn't let this moment felt very no.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just didn't feel active.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember Rick Berman once saying in a screening.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, it's called motion pictures because I want people moving, but there should be motion.
[SPEAKER_01]: The camera should be moving, or the actors.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we cut out to Kelana and the Gem Hadar, they're just sort of standing there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what was- For a group shot.
[SPEAKER_02]: for group shots.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, again, but we learned later that the entire attack force ends up killing themselves because of the death of the change link.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that reaction shot of them standing in that weird line out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was no anything like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: The moment I should have been like looking at each other like, oh,
[SPEAKER_02]: the changeling's dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our god is dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: None of that was there at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, Kalana beams into the ship all by herself.
[SPEAKER_01]: We learned that the gem at our killed themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says Cisco should have trusted her that she was telling the truth that she could have helped them that wouldn't have had to go through all of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cisco does realize in the scene they should have all trusted each other, you know, that he should have trusted her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She should have trusted him none of this way.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she lied to begin with.
[SPEAKER_01]: she did lie in a number of ways and a number of ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what was the thread.
[SPEAKER_00]: The possibility of trust was gone as soon as she was doing this cat and mouse game with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but they played it like as if we've never seen a changeling before like this that it was like what this is such a secret thing like she's definitely She should have said look we've got a changeling on board Please let us could be injured let us help and Cisco's already had enough Cisco the entire gang of DS9 is already had enough exposure to changeling including oh, though That no one's gonna be afraid of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're gonna be oh my god a changeling no.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but they made it
[SPEAKER_00]: We're the federation that put life above anything else and that's not aimed to kill anybody and we only do that to survive and protect our own.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's insane that she knows that much about Cisco and the federation and doesn't just say hey we have to help us out yeah exactly she should have known that I did not like when the changeling was about to die I don't like the sound effects they gave it like it was a monster.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that bug me too, rolling on like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well also one of the things they talked about the difference between us and the gem Hadar is they were expendable, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we found out like this one guy I was close to was only three years old, but he was a full blown man.
[SPEAKER_00]: our way, our honor of rescuing our injured and taking care of our own, even when they are injured, is in a lot of ways to the Gem Hadar, a weakness that we have.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a weakness, not a strength.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she knows that about us too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So who else would have the empathy it would take to say, you can have your guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it would be us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we would think intellectually it would make sense that she would know that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, she, she scoops up some of the remains of the founder and hit the small little tube.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she does ask Cisco and this scene if he has any gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, well, I have things I believe in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she comments, I hope getting this ship and taking it back was worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was worth all of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, so do I.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she zaps out with her little tube of changeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: That mean a little tube of changeling.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the ashes, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't don't the for rangy like option.
[SPEAKER_01]: They shouldn't have whole every.
[SPEAKER_01]: But don't the for rangy auction off their ashes to like they sell it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They sell their body part.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every part of them is worth something.
[SPEAKER_01]: You would think that at God, we wouldn't just take a little tube.
[SPEAKER_01]: You take the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every like a little dust buster to come in and just take it all up.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see that Cisco's got regret here and uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: and we wonder was this worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we go back to the mess hall back on the station.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dax comes in to see how Cisco's Starfleet update went and Cisco says that he's deeply troubled by the ones that died on this
[SPEAKER_01]: And Dax said, well, they died to save many other people, potentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they knew what they were doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They signed up for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Cisco admits in this scene that he'd do it all again.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he does remember Professor SOMOX, favorite lesson from the Academy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was always maintained.
[SPEAKER_01]: emotional distance between yourself and those under your command.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he reminisces about some of the good memories of those people that died and says, even though he's got good memories, it doesn't make it any easier.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Dax's advice is, well, maybe it never should make it easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was very wise.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'd like to see, this is a good scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think everyone was telling.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think everyone was great in this scene and playing that sort of, you know, this being despondent and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, these are unnecessary deaths.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of them, no one should have died in this and it just made me so angry watching this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, he says it was heartbreaking when Cisco's talking about the memories.
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, you know, Jake and Monius have the same birth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I perform the ceremony at Hoy is wedding.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows Hoy very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Rooney plays the trumpet and he heard him at quarks once and he had people dancing
[SPEAKER_01]: memories and emotionally connected memories were very evocative in this scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was a it was a the scene does stand alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really effective.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about unnecessary loss of life, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm going to regret about that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like that I got, my character got to also tell Cisco how proud they were to be a part of Starfleet and how proud they were to serve under him.
[SPEAKER_00]: because also we all know the risks.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, any one of us could have died, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have the face that every time, every day being a part of Starfleet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Cisco says, but it doesn't make it easier.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's when she says, maybe nothing should.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really agree with what they talked about in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, how they spoke about it and feel about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good writing on this scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this last scene is really nice too because we're in the cargo bay in O'Brien's talking to the casket to the Monus casket and describing the success of finally getting the ship free.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's sort of talking about getting it to rock a little bit and now you would have loved it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Worf comes in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, oh, you're doing what Klingon's do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he explains that comrades will stay with the body to keep predators away until the spirit is ready to make the journey to Stovacore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Worf sits down and I'm Brian's like, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, we'll both keep the predators away.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a touching ending.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's really a camera pulls back beautifully.
[SPEAKER_02]: The last couple scenes were very moving, but the boy, they would have landed so much better if that relationship between O'Brien and Keke was better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if we had a B-story line, yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we'll talk about that in our bonus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, bonus material.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about theme slash less and slash more for this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll go Robbie, then Terry, to myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: My lesson is that trust can be hard, but it is sometimes worth the risk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good, because in this situation, the price they paid for not having trust was everybody lost, everybody lost in this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not just Starfleet.
[SPEAKER_02]: All the gym had our dead, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Terry, what is your theme slash lesson for?
[SPEAKER_00]: Trust was my thing, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't build trust, you can't get anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: You lose the opportunity for both of you to achieve something greater.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I agree without trust, do you don't have a relationship?
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot move forward and because they could not get past that, we lost a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there are people up in the run about we were going to lose anyway because of the Gem Hadar, but we didn't need to lose monies for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: over the changing lane.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm all on the same page with you guys trust I believe is the foundation of any good relationship and without trust you have nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're on the same page.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is our Patreon poll theme and moral for this episode, Terry?
[SPEAKER_00]: It is submitted by Tim Newmark.
[SPEAKER_00]: Conflict could be avoided if people could have honest discussions about what
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's hard to be vulnerable enough to have that intimacy in our personal relationships, but certainly in this situation, it was key.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess another thing could be, stop second guessing yourself, because both sides were like, wait a minute, are they trying to do something dastardly?
[SPEAKER_02]: What's happening here?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it was always about like, there's a weird thing happening, and we're gonna protect ourselves from that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just be honest about it and trust that that's going to get you to where you want to be, instead of, yeah, I really thought everyone else had another agenda that it was ridiculous, especially if everybody stomps off, it's like, okay, then just process and let's come back to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when we've all calmed down.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks everyone for tuning in to our recap and discussion of the episode the ship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you again to Terry for guest hosting with us again hosting with this and this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: And join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing looking for parma in all the wrong places.
[SPEAKER_02]: with arman and Terry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that the name of the episode?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that really?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Holy moly.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am really excited about this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: To do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because being a spoiler says, I believe I'm getting together with my pal and your pal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't this the one where armin and I are doing this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I said for both of you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you said it already.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a holly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I must need food.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need food.
[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: For all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material and for everyone else.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye.