WEBVTT 00:07.085 --> 00:08.688 [SPEAKER_02]: there and welcome to our show. 00:09.008 --> 00:11.312 [SPEAKER_02]: The shit no one tells you about writing. 00:12.074 --> 00:20.889 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm best selling author, Bianca Marie, and I'm joined by CC Lira of Wendy Sherman Associates and Carly Waters of PS Literary. 00:22.612 --> 00:25.457 [SPEAKER_02]: Hi everyone, welcome back to another Book Swap Hux. 00:25.937 --> 00:28.522 [SPEAKER_02]: As per usual, we are going to dive straight in. 00:28.722 --> 00:30.966 [SPEAKER_02]: Carly, can you please read us your query letter? 00:31.891 --> 00:32.532 [SPEAKER_01]: Dear Mrs. 00:32.612 --> 00:46.353 [SPEAKER_01]: Waters, the Alotman is an 82,000-word WPV contemporary romance that combines the grumpy sunshine energy of Lucy Parker's Battle Royale, with the catacly funny British enemy celebs romance of Beth O'Leary's The Wake Up Call. 00:46.713 --> 00:52.482 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm querying you because if you're interested in lifting humorous stories such as Kitty Johnson's prickly company. 00:52.462 --> 00:55.087 [SPEAKER_01]: Maeve Morton face-plated off the internet. 00:55.467 --> 01:06.548 [SPEAKER_01]: She was once a top food fluencer until a brutally honest Instagram live exposing industry-fakery and calling out popular influencers saw her sponsors drop her and her followers turn. 01:06.688 --> 01:09.032 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, the meltdown Maeve is broke. 01:09.052 --> 01:14.402 [SPEAKER_01]: The stuck in a moldy, east-line and flat and one overdraft extension away from moving back in with mum and dad. 01:15.108 --> 01:19.454 [SPEAKER_01]: When after three years, her name finally reaches the top of Bramblewood allotments waiting list. 01:19.474 --> 01:23.901 [SPEAKER_01]: She grabs the chance to stay in London and rebuild her brand with plucked to plate content. 01:24.041 --> 01:31.612 [SPEAKER_01]: Step one, claim plot 27, step two, try not to lose it when the committee double books your plot with a rude Frenchman. 01:32.313 --> 01:41.487 [SPEAKER_01]: Sebastian Moro was once a rising star in London's fine dining scene until a skating video review and viral and destroyed his career or so he believes. 01:41.905 --> 01:48.099 [SPEAKER_01]: The owners fired him within a week, other kitchen stop turning his calls, and ended up scraping by any battered or crepe truck. 01:48.860 --> 01:53.250 [SPEAKER_01]: Plot 27 is his lifeline, a way to cut a cast by growing his own produce. 01:53.771 --> 01:59.003 [SPEAKER_01]: The last thing he needs is that pink haired influencer using his allotment plot as a comeback plan. 01:59.928 --> 02:17.835 [SPEAKER_01]: forced to share plot 27 chaotic, maven, and rigid sub-esian, grudgingly agreed to split their beds and immediately launched into a passive aggressive horticultural warfare, moved boundary markers, sabotaged, being sprouts and are growing list of complaints from neighboring gardeners. 02:17.815 --> 02:26.352 [SPEAKER_01]: When suspected fandalism finally pushes things too far, the committee gives them one last chance to show they can work together by fronting a food stall at the summer festival. 02:26.913 --> 02:34.187 [SPEAKER_01]: Now in an uneasy ceasefire, they spend long evenings watering, planting and coming up with the summer festival menu. 02:34.403 --> 02:37.908 [SPEAKER_01]: But just as they give into the attraction, Sebastian reveals the truth. 02:38.449 --> 02:42.194 [SPEAKER_01]: It was Maves, first-ever viral video that upended his career two years ago. 02:42.434 --> 02:48.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Desperate to make a men's, Maves promotes his track to her followers, but the stunt blows up in her face. 02:48.803 --> 02:57.155 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, with their truths, in titers they must decide whether to retreat to the safety of their solitary lives, or brave the thorns of their history for a shot at something real. 02:57.535 --> 02:58.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for your consideration. 03:00.408 --> 03:01.213 [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome, Kali. 03:01.273 --> 03:05.457 [SPEAKER_02]: What was the word count there and then can you take us through your thoughts on that? 03:06.095 --> 03:08.538 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so the author wrote it out for us. 03:08.638 --> 03:11.422 [SPEAKER_01]: They said it was 420 words. 03:11.442 --> 03:13.665 [SPEAKER_01]: They also wrote us a nice little paragraph at the top. 03:13.685 --> 03:15.428 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just wanted to let you know that I did read that. 03:15.488 --> 03:15.968 [SPEAKER_01]: And thank you. 03:16.509 --> 03:17.671 [SPEAKER_01]: And so 420 words. 03:17.771 --> 03:21.155 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's start, gosh, let's start the top, I guess. 03:21.416 --> 03:23.739 [SPEAKER_01]: So you call this a double POV. 03:23.839 --> 03:26.002 [SPEAKER_01]: Typical vis, typically we say dual POV. 03:26.022 --> 03:27.784 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if like double is a problem. 03:27.824 --> 03:31.309 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just letting you know that industry standard is generally dual POV. 03:31.424 --> 03:47.661 [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is this is a, I should maybe start with, I say, this is a very like UK centric book, right, the writing, the tone, so maybe in the UK, I haven't worked in the UK in 15 years, so maybe they say double view of the UK and that's totally fine, but, you know, this is a more North American audience podcast, so I just wanted to flag that. 03:47.827 --> 03:51.152 [SPEAKER_02]: And as we know, South Africans call them Jewel. 03:51.673 --> 03:55.598 [SPEAKER_02]: Hear these, some are diamonds, some are emeralds. 03:56.319 --> 03:57.621 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, sorry. 03:58.282 --> 03:59.243 [SPEAKER_02]: I just had to put that to you. 03:59.263 --> 04:00.826 [SPEAKER_01]: There are Jewels, are doubles. 04:01.647 --> 04:05.673 [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody actually message email the podcast to go, what is a Jewel? 04:05.933 --> 04:08.537 [SPEAKER_02]: J-E-W-E-L, point of view. 04:08.817 --> 04:10.780 [SPEAKER_02]: So I always feel like I need to clear that it. 04:10.760 --> 04:11.864 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Gary out of the story. 04:11.885 --> 04:14.174 [SPEAKER_01]: There's sometimes what I'm like, oh man, what should I sell at merch? 04:14.194 --> 04:17.768 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we could have been like, doalt, doalt, doalt, like doalt. 04:17.788 --> 04:19.957 [SPEAKER_01]: I got some good merch though. 04:19.997 --> 04:21.242 [SPEAKER_01]: Back when we had merch. 04:23.028 --> 04:31.706 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, so, okay, one of the things, and this is like a very personal thing, which is, I think I've talked with this before, there's some of the things where I like I struggle with a little bit. 04:32.347 --> 04:42.268 [SPEAKER_01]: Influencer characters is one of these things I personally struggle with a little bit because the influencer landscape is always changing as a concept and we have books. 04:42.350 --> 04:46.875 [SPEAKER_01]: that are written now, or written a year ago, querying now, come out in two years. 04:46.975 --> 04:49.578 [SPEAKER_01]: And the influenza landscape in two years is very different. 04:49.598 --> 04:53.983 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this is an example of something where I feel like we actually have to suspend quite a bit of disbelief. 04:54.604 --> 05:05.156 [SPEAKER_01]: Because this person's version of what an influenza is this very much more like the sweet side, the sunny side of influenza, even though there's a dark side, I understand that she loses her followers. 05:05.297 --> 05:06.098 [SPEAKER_01]: And so on and so forth. 05:06.118 --> 05:06.518 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, 05:06.498 --> 05:12.548 [SPEAKER_01]: We have to suspend a certain amount of disbelief of what we think influencers are, I think. 05:12.708 --> 05:16.735 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is like a romanticization of what influencers are. 05:16.755 --> 05:18.518 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, this could be fine. 05:18.558 --> 05:24.228 [SPEAKER_01]: For me, I personally have our time only seeing the sunny side of influencing. 05:24.508 --> 05:25.810 [SPEAKER_01]: I see a lot of the dark side. 05:25.830 --> 05:27.493 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is an example of 05:27.473 --> 05:30.280 [SPEAKER_01]: why I think influencer books can be really challenging. 05:30.641 --> 05:32.024 [SPEAKER_01]: That said, this is only the query. 05:32.044 --> 05:36.796 [SPEAKER_01]: So maybe we get into much more of the dark side of influencer culture, which I love. 05:37.077 --> 05:38.320 [SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, this is just the query. 05:38.340 --> 05:42.229 [SPEAKER_01]: But I just wanted to flag that because that's one of the things I find really tricky about this. 05:42.250 --> 05:43.272 [SPEAKER_01]: And they also are both 05:43.724 --> 05:44.326 [SPEAKER_01]: influence. 05:44.346 --> 05:45.709 [SPEAKER_01]: There's, I think, to a certain extent. 05:45.810 --> 05:48.938 [SPEAKER_01]: No, he was a rising star until this game you review went by. 05:48.998 --> 06:00.248 [SPEAKER_01]: But like he has this online presence by being a top chef, you know, and being well known enough, that a bad review of viral online review could take him down. 06:00.228 --> 06:12.291 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just wanted to flag all of that because as I said, you might just be focusing on the like surface level side of influencer culture, which can work, but it is kind of like a romanticization of influencer culture anyway. 06:12.511 --> 06:13.353 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope that's making sense. 06:13.393 --> 06:16.619 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's one of the things that I personally struggle with for people that are listening. 06:17.420 --> 06:21.949 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, another thing that I think is a bit challenging here with this concept is 06:23.009 --> 06:25.935 [SPEAKER_01]: I find that these POVs are very similar, you know? 06:25.995 --> 06:32.228 [SPEAKER_01]: We have like, he's a chef, but she is a, like, she wants to be a plot to plate content influence. 06:32.268 --> 06:33.711 [SPEAKER_01]: So she also wants to be a cook. 06:33.771 --> 06:36.917 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we have two characters, obviously what male and female. 06:37.302 --> 06:43.572 [SPEAKER_01]: both doing the same morning to work on this garden plot, the garden plot plot. 06:43.592 --> 06:50.102 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually find a really cute that this is called a garden plot and the book is a plot and it's very like plot plot and I find that very cute. 06:50.122 --> 06:59.557 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so I find these characters very kind of similar in their trajectories, which I don't know where a lot of this tension is gonna essentially come from in this book. 07:00.198 --> 07:02.922 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like they're trying to kind of go out each other, 07:03.695 --> 07:07.763 [SPEAKER_01]: in a way that I just wonder at what point the reader is going to understand that can see it here. 07:07.823 --> 07:11.030 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, I just asked instructional questions as you can tell. 07:11.050 --> 07:13.255 [SPEAKER_01]: This is also a very long query. 07:13.275 --> 07:17.123 [SPEAKER_01]: It definitely seems a bit more summary, heavy. 07:17.163 --> 07:19.147 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have to do some cutting. 07:19.167 --> 07:20.269 [SPEAKER_01]: We have to figure that out. 07:20.249 --> 07:42.915 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's really good at the end when you say it was her viral video that I've been in his career, but how did she not know that it was him when it was the taking it down of the thing, like, so there's a lot of confusion here, but it's very good that these who are actually connected, because that's one of those things where you need this real life tension, not just this kind of like a magic romanticized tension at the end. 07:43.098 --> 07:45.222 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a really great line in this queer letter that I love. 07:45.302 --> 07:49.109 [SPEAKER_01]: I love launching to passive aggressive horticultural warfare. 07:49.530 --> 07:52.716 [SPEAKER_01]: Love horticultural warfare, I think that is fantastic. 07:53.177 --> 07:54.480 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's a lot here. 07:54.540 --> 07:58.427 [SPEAKER_01]: It's getting like, I don't know Peter Rabbit or the movie where it was like, I don't know. 07:58.487 --> 08:03.537 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, I just imagine like, I'm kind of going at this garden and things like flying everywhere vegetables and fruits. 08:03.517 --> 08:05.200 [SPEAKER_01]: And just being like messy. 08:05.480 --> 08:10.728 [SPEAKER_01]: I love the like that sounds like a messy plot with like messy mud So I can really visualize this. 08:10.788 --> 08:25.110 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of good things that are happening here But I just wanted to flag those questions for you that I have been we don't have you on the pot today So I can't ask you, but I think there's something here I just don't know if the darkboard's going to the middle of the board here on this one at this point Thank you, Kali. 08:25.330 --> 08:27.634 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, CC handing it across to you 08:28.205 --> 08:34.515 [SPEAKER_03]: I too found the whole plot to plate thing to be absolutely adorable because of my job. 08:34.555 --> 08:45.191 [SPEAKER_03]: I had to read it twice because initially I was like story to plate and then I was like that makes no sense so I had to reread it and I was like, oh, like a land plot. 08:45.251 --> 08:50.659 [SPEAKER_03]: So clearly I need a break because I look at plot and I see stories everywhere. 08:51.100 --> 08:51.681 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not complaining. 08:51.897 --> 08:54.019 [SPEAKER_03]: a small note on the first paragraph. 08:54.140 --> 08:57.584 [SPEAKER_03]: The titles are not in all caps or italics. 08:57.704 --> 08:58.925 [SPEAKER_03]: You just wrote it like normally. 08:58.965 --> 09:05.132 [SPEAKER_03]: So for example, the title battle reality, it's, you know, it's not italicized, it's not null caps. 09:05.232 --> 09:08.176 [SPEAKER_03]: And for readability, I promise it matters. 09:08.456 --> 09:10.278 [SPEAKER_03]: I know it sounds like such a small thing. 09:10.378 --> 09:16.285 [SPEAKER_03]: But again, remember, the person who's reviewing this is going to be reviewing this in batches. 09:16.265 --> 09:23.175 [SPEAKER_03]: 50, 60 at a time or however many and you really want that readability to be in your favor. 09:23.836 --> 09:29.705 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't understand how she didn't know how his whole revelation thing was a revelation. 09:29.765 --> 09:33.210 [SPEAKER_03]: I think, you know, to build off on what Carly said, 09:33.190 --> 09:39.821 [SPEAKER_03]: even if she didn't know, which I'm not logistically clear on how that could be, the reader will know because the reader will be in his head. 09:40.081 --> 09:47.172 [SPEAKER_03]: So it won't be a revelation for the reader and then I'm thinking, is it going to be sufficient climatic catharsis? 09:47.192 --> 09:49.576 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, are we going to be surprised by this twist? 09:49.796 --> 09:52.060 [SPEAKER_03]: We could, if 09:52.647 --> 09:59.078 [SPEAKER_03]: If you build up their relationship so much where the readers like, oh my god, if she finds out it's, you know, everything will be destroyed. 09:59.439 --> 10:02.525 [SPEAKER_03]: So I guess in that sense, it could, it's just a really, it's a tall order. 10:02.625 --> 10:04.508 [SPEAKER_03]: And I guess it's something that I, that I think about. 10:04.729 --> 10:06.752 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and all, it seems like a really adorable plot. 10:07.293 --> 10:12.242 [SPEAKER_03]: Something I will say, which I think is interesting, not just for this writer, but also for all our listeners is. 10:12.965 --> 10:16.129 [SPEAKER_03]: I love it when food is woven into stories. 10:16.449 --> 10:17.110 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I love it. 10:17.270 --> 10:19.133 [SPEAKER_03]: I love food themes and stories. 10:19.193 --> 10:20.795 [SPEAKER_03]: I find it to be so interesting. 10:21.296 --> 10:23.899 [SPEAKER_03]: And I know that a lot of acquiring editors want that too. 10:24.219 --> 10:30.107 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's something we hear from people who represent various genres that they love it when food is woven into books. 10:30.888 --> 10:33.110 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm thinking of an amazing novel called Butter. 10:33.170 --> 10:34.652 [SPEAKER_03]: It's to translate it work. 10:34.853 --> 10:36.595 [SPEAKER_03]: The original was in Japanese. 10:36.835 --> 10:39.158 [SPEAKER_03]: And if you guys have not checked out Butter, please do. 10:40.606 --> 10:41.568 [SPEAKER_02]: You're full, CC. 10:41.628 --> 10:42.450 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much. 10:42.770 --> 10:48.061 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Kali, can you give us an overview of what was in the pages and then you'll take on them? 10:48.963 --> 10:50.846 [SPEAKER_01]: Alright, so we start in Maves. 10:51.147 --> 10:51.969 [SPEAKER_01]: Point of view. 10:52.450 --> 10:53.913 [SPEAKER_01]: So chapter one, Maves. 10:54.193 --> 10:56.898 [SPEAKER_01]: Right away, we are in the Bramblewood Allotments. 10:57.339 --> 10:59.804 [SPEAKER_01]: So the kind of land plot garden situation. 10:59.824 --> 11:02.209 [SPEAKER_01]: She is 11:02.459 --> 11:07.145 [SPEAKER_01]: and her bright yellow boots kind of mucking around in the mud. 11:07.165 --> 11:10.449 [SPEAKER_01]: Getting herself to where she thinks she needs to be has her seeds. 11:10.550 --> 11:13.153 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like ready to plant ready to go with her garden plot. 11:13.173 --> 11:14.895 [SPEAKER_01]: Then she hear someone speaking French to her. 11:15.035 --> 11:16.017 [SPEAKER_01]: She turns around. 11:16.077 --> 11:23.246 [SPEAKER_01]: There he had some gentlemen really pulled together and is like waxed, barber, jacket and everybody can kind of picture what I'm talking about. 11:23.847 --> 11:26.290 [SPEAKER_01]: And she is in a hoodie that says the hot mess expressed. 11:26.658 --> 11:47.670 [SPEAKER_01]: and so they begin to argue over who's plot this is as the query letter says this is plot 27 she thinks it's hers he thinks it's his he pulls out his paper work she pulls out of paper work they go in to talk to the organizer and nobody can kind of agree on that they chalk it up to going from a manual system to a digital system so yes they were both allotted 11:47.650 --> 11:51.721 [SPEAKER_01]: clocked 27, and that is essentially where we end. 11:51.781 --> 11:55.892 [SPEAKER_01]: This person sent in more than there a lot of pages, speaking of allotments. 11:56.293 --> 12:01.086 [SPEAKER_01]: They said in more than there are a lot of pages, so that is where I think CCNIPO stopped reading, and that's where we are. 12:02.838 --> 12:07.425 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just a reminder to our listeners and that's not just for the podcast. 12:07.445 --> 12:10.068 [SPEAKER_02]: This is for with any agent you're going to query. 12:10.168 --> 12:17.639 [SPEAKER_02]: If they save five pages or 10 pages, they mean 12 point font and they need mean double space. 12:18.100 --> 12:25.570 [SPEAKER_02]: So don't try and do everything single space so that you can put in double the amount of information and think that they're not going to pick up on that because they will. 12:25.671 --> 12:30.938 [SPEAKER_02]: So anytime you see page specifications, it's double space. 12:31.913 --> 12:32.413 [SPEAKER_01]: all right. 12:32.433 --> 12:40.120 [SPEAKER_01]: So one of my favorite things about many UK books and books that write in a more UK style is they always kept writing to the plot. 12:40.681 --> 12:42.843 [SPEAKER_01]: They're always like writing it, especially with a rom-com. 12:43.183 --> 12:46.966 [SPEAKER_01]: This is something that North American listeners and writers can learn a lot from. 12:47.246 --> 12:57.375 [SPEAKER_01]: If you pick up any UK rom-com or romance or commercial fiction that's UK based and said and written, like they're always writing to the plot and let us know. 12:57.475 --> 12:58.176 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 12:58.196 --> 13:01.819 [SPEAKER_01]: So we based as we as I said, we start 13:01.799 --> 13:15.160 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so one small thing and people who subscribe to our comments and our newsletter on Tuesdays will get this but there's something like quotation marks around the description of the earth. 13:15.180 --> 13:18.705 [SPEAKER_01]: It says breathing the sharp quote honest and quote smell of damn earth. 13:18.725 --> 13:20.288 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why honest isn't quotes. 13:20.308 --> 13:22.251 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's not the right word, the picking of her word. 13:22.371 --> 13:26.237 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I just don't know why we had to kind of bookmark the honest to smell of damn earth. 13:26.960 --> 13:28.903 [SPEAKER_01]: that'll feel like the right word then just switch it. 13:29.544 --> 13:34.653 [SPEAKER_01]: So I've really loved a lot of the visuals here as I kind of described earlier on with the mud. 13:34.693 --> 13:36.876 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I love this idea of loving like a mucking around. 13:36.896 --> 13:43.006 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's there's so much here that's like very visual, you know, there's also the contrast between him. 13:43.046 --> 13:46.131 [SPEAKER_01]: He has this, you know, waxed bark or jacket. 13:46.171 --> 13:47.213 [SPEAKER_01]: She's in her. 13:47.378 --> 14:00.914 [SPEAKER_01]: Trumpy sweater and she says she looks through her purse to find like her documentation and it's like my cheeks burning I shove a hand in my tote raking past receipts a crusty dried up lip balm a tampon a half eaten cornish pastey Where is it? 14:01.475 --> 14:14.230 [SPEAKER_01]: I love this like contrast I was starting to build between these two characters because as I said in the query letter I wasn't really seeing How different these characters are so I do think it's really important the grumpy sunshine especially to be really clear about how these two are different 14:14.598 --> 14:18.415 [SPEAKER_01]: So coming back to my earlier comments in the query letter about... 14:18.968 --> 14:20.049 [SPEAKER_01]: influence her piece. 14:20.370 --> 14:26.337 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that way, I think I'm clearly over analyzing this, but this is the lens that I come to this with. 14:26.418 --> 14:45.482 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, why would an influencer be walking around or influencer that needs to revitalize her career be walking around recording video in her hot mess express sweater because so what she was doing, I didn't explain this when I summarized, but she was 14:45.462 --> 14:48.066 [SPEAKER_01]: before the French band walks up. 14:48.126 --> 14:51.672 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, is she is trying to revitalize her career? 14:51.732 --> 14:53.655 [SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't she be in something? 14:53.695 --> 14:55.197 [SPEAKER_01]: And there can be tension there, right? 14:55.237 --> 15:02.869 [SPEAKER_01]: She's in an uncomfortable outfit, but she knows the obitious where to revitalize her careers and influence her because the standards of influence are very high. 15:03.209 --> 15:05.513 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess what I just didn't understand. 15:06.218 --> 15:09.281 [SPEAKER_01]: that kind of like the way that she was presenting herself. 15:09.421 --> 15:11.664 [SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't really find much tension there. 15:11.724 --> 15:27.500 [SPEAKER_01]: I like the tension between the two of them in terms of the descriptions, but the way that she was presenting herself to the world and the way that influencer culture like shows up, essentially her content in the algorithm is going to be up against tradwives because she's doing plot to plate kind of content. 15:27.640 --> 15:31.264 [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you show up as a 15:31.244 --> 15:47.363 [SPEAKER_01]: When you're like competitors or trad lives, again, I can be overthinking this but this is the lens that I that I come to this with so I think this could be an example of it's maybe just to surface level for me personally as an agent and that could just be, you know, my take on things. 15:47.680 --> 15:50.163 [SPEAKER_01]: So in terms of age, I want to come to age here. 15:50.223 --> 15:54.828 [SPEAKER_01]: So it seems to me that this character is probably around 40 years old. 15:55.648 --> 15:57.631 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the author has a different opinion of that. 15:57.711 --> 16:06.800 [SPEAKER_01]: But you say, if I can stay put, just as well, we'll my suitcase back to Mom and Dad's and bunk with my shelf of beanie babies, I once unironically called my pension plan. 16:07.281 --> 16:11.005 [SPEAKER_01]: So this person's in there, like they're 40, which is fine. 16:11.065 --> 16:14.228 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, that to me creates a level 16:14.512 --> 16:18.559 [SPEAKER_01]: especially in a rom-com, especially in a book about a woman's career. 16:18.619 --> 16:22.025 [SPEAKER_01]: How does she feel about being 40 and having to rebuild this? 16:22.306 --> 16:32.905 [SPEAKER_01]: There's just a lot of gender expectation kind of also into this and career expectation, which again, I felt we were very surface-level and I would have loved to see the darker side of that. 16:33.486 --> 16:36.030 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's something that I think needed. 16:36.010 --> 16:38.316 [SPEAKER_01]: You needed to be looked at, but I love that as I said. 16:38.356 --> 16:39.800 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that we start with the mix up. 16:39.981 --> 16:41.866 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a huge fan of starting with the mix up. 16:42.186 --> 16:51.471 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I just really struggle with influence or culture if we're not getting to the meteor darker side of it because there's just so much there and so if this could just be a me problem. 16:52.733 --> 16:53.575 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Kali. 16:53.635 --> 17:10.911 [SPEAKER_02]: For our listeners who are too much like I am when it comes to fashion and Kali goes waxed barber jacket, I'm sure everybody knows what I'm talking about and then I said seriously googling waxed barber jacket and for those of you watching on YouTube, that is what it is. 17:11.414 --> 17:11.955 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that right? 17:11.975 --> 17:13.238 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a chore jacket. 17:13.278 --> 17:20.092 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like a British chore jacket where they literally wax them because it brings so much in the UK when they're outside doing their outdoorsy stuff. 17:20.112 --> 17:22.477 [SPEAKER_01]: And so they literally waxed it so it's called the back. 17:22.497 --> 17:32.157 [SPEAKER_01]: So barbers the brand and waxing is literally what they they wet not like waxed a much like your legs, let's put the wax on the jacket. 17:32.137 --> 17:40.133 [SPEAKER_02]: And when you said Baba, I went to the guy who does means here and I'm like, oh, why is there a special jacket for Baba? 17:40.874 --> 17:41.696 [SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah. 17:41.716 --> 17:42.878 [SPEAKER_01]: So, I could leave. 17:43.259 --> 17:45.203 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like falling into my own trap. 17:46.666 --> 17:49.592 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm falling into my own trap if not describing things properly. 17:49.632 --> 17:50.994 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the time not the writer, guys. 17:51.055 --> 17:52.778 [SPEAKER_01]: This is why I'm the critic. 17:53.011 --> 18:04.870 [SPEAKER_03]: I know this isn't shooting the ship, but I have to say, like the Bianca, the fact that you are not into fashion or into most things that a lot of people are into makes it so hard to get you a gift, okay? 18:05.170 --> 18:06.192 [SPEAKER_03]: I need to vent about this. 18:07.214 --> 18:07.314 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 18:07.534 --> 18:10.779 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, getting a gift for Carly, easiest thing ever, like easiest thing ever. 18:11.000 --> 18:12.542 [SPEAKER_03]: There's the million category she likes. 18:12.562 --> 18:15.627 [SPEAKER_03]: Bianca's like, what does Bianca want you to do? 18:15.607 --> 18:19.932 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, to show her love, like, I don't know, do your taxes or something, which I would never do, obviously. 18:19.992 --> 18:34.407 [SPEAKER_03]: But you're just, yes, acts of, but like, I still remember this, like, this is super personal, but when you're, when you're, when muggle passed away, like when you're beautiful of dog pathway, I made a donation to this shelter thing, because I'm like, Bianca's not gonna want flowers. 18:34.447 --> 18:35.368 [SPEAKER_03]: She's not gonna want chocolate. 18:35.388 --> 18:36.209 [SPEAKER_03]: She's not gonna want this. 18:36.229 --> 18:36.929 [SPEAKER_03]: She's not gonna want that. 18:36.950 --> 18:38.972 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's so hard to get you a gift, okay? 18:39.252 --> 18:41.074 [SPEAKER_03]: You take that into something that's mainstream. 18:41.414 --> 18:43.116 [SPEAKER_02]: Get into something with mainstream. 18:43.417 --> 18:49.165 [SPEAKER_02]: the perfect gift that you got me, and also I want a raccoon, so that's our malice. 18:49.185 --> 19:06.808 [SPEAKER_03]: So if you give me a raccoon, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no 19:09.016 --> 19:14.124 [SPEAKER_03]: I will start by saying that there's a lot of humor here, and I like that. 19:14.145 --> 19:23.400 [SPEAKER_03]: I kept flagging lines, and again, our sub-stack subscribers will see this, but I kept flagging lines that I thought were really humorous and funny, small things. 19:23.941 --> 19:27.727 [SPEAKER_03]: I really like it when humor is tucked into action beats in dialogue tag. 19:28.208 --> 19:34.939 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a really fun way to, yes, have dialogue and dialogue is so important for movement and interaction. 19:34.919 --> 19:41.726 [SPEAKER_03]: But at the same time, it's a way to keep us really tethered in the protagonist's interiority in a way that's like tickling your brain. 19:41.826 --> 19:43.088 [SPEAKER_03]: So I really liked that. 19:43.108 --> 19:47.112 [SPEAKER_03]: And I did flag lines and I do want to, you know, applaud the writer for doing this. 19:47.913 --> 19:50.155 [SPEAKER_03]: I did not connect with the writing. 19:50.315 --> 19:55.901 [SPEAKER_03]: For me, this was one of those situations where the writing for my taste, it didn't work. 19:55.941 --> 19:58.444 [SPEAKER_03]: I kept having to reread sentences. 19:58.804 --> 20:01.467 [SPEAKER_03]: I am fairly certain this is a me problem. 20:01.447 --> 20:26.222 [SPEAKER_03]: This is probably just not the kind of book that I gravitate towards as a reader and as an agent I make my decisions very much organically as a reader, like if I'm feeling curious if I'm feeling emotionally invested, then I know I have a project that's for me and if I'm not, then I know that project is not for me something that I think was really interesting here was that the two roommate situation and reminded me of Elfaba and Glenda in wicked. 20:26.607 --> 20:30.394 [SPEAKER_03]: But with a twist, with a romantic twist, they do not want to be stuck together. 20:30.434 --> 20:32.719 [SPEAKER_03]: He's clearly like, oh my god, not this one. 20:32.759 --> 20:34.082 [SPEAKER_03]: And she's like, not that guy. 20:34.422 --> 20:35.765 [SPEAKER_03]: And I thought that was really cute. 20:35.825 --> 20:41.055 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's a framework that you might want to leverage when you're talking about elements of your story. 20:41.423 --> 20:51.938 [SPEAKER_03]: Again, this is not something that's for me and you did not send it to me by the way, you like, when people submit to books with hooks, they can choose who they want to, like, primarily review this, although we both review it. 20:52.419 --> 21:00.931 [SPEAKER_03]: And I, it was sent to Carly, so it probably, you know, there's probably, you know, that it's not my taste, but, like, for me, I kept wanting more mess. 21:01.652 --> 21:04.076 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I just kept really, really, really wanting more mess. 21:04.116 --> 21:09.904 [SPEAKER_03]: And I also don't think the writing is, is quite doing your story justice for my taste. 21:10.104 --> 21:11.346 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's, those are my thoughts. 21:13.503 --> 21:14.304 [SPEAKER_02]: QCC. 21:14.965 --> 21:20.791 [SPEAKER_02]: Before we move on to the next one, I do want to say we take these episodes very fine advance. 21:20.971 --> 21:29.420 [SPEAKER_02]: So this one is being taped on the 10th of December and I just recently saw that Sophie can sell her past away and that's incredibly sad. 21:29.440 --> 21:40.371 [SPEAKER_02]: So I just wanted to, you know, pay tribute to an excellent English writer who is just phenomenal and I think she passed away 21:40.351 --> 22:06.645 [SPEAKER_02]: sad so yeah oh my god i read her novels in my 20s like i like they were like they were so format and it was just broke this morning so feels like i'm a fresh one for sure yeah yeah and i know so many people like huge fans across like men women everything so it's so it's really sad okay cc we're gonna move across to your query letter but before we do just to quick word from 22:10.118 --> 22:12.361 [SPEAKER_02]: OK, CC, can you read it for us? 22:13.803 --> 22:18.148 [SPEAKER_03]: All right, dear agent, I am pleased to present the one-eyed angel. 22:18.429 --> 22:24.296 [SPEAKER_03]: My 90,000 word YA fantasy about an angel on a quest for revenge against her human ex-lover. 22:24.877 --> 22:37.493 [SPEAKER_03]: Told with a dual timeline, dual perspective structure, this novel is the first in a duology that takes the morally gray characters and conflicted desire for vengeance in Emily Vargas. 22:37.473 --> 22:46.644 [SPEAKER_03]: for she is wrath, and combines it with the yearning, human verses heavenly creature romance of Rebecca Ross' wild reverence. 22:47.745 --> 22:50.849 [SPEAKER_03]: It began with the promise, as so many betrayals do. 22:51.489 --> 23:02.502 [SPEAKER_03]: Twelve years ago, a young angel, Eileena fell from the lands above and was discovered by a human boy, Piotrek Halverson, he promised to never hurt her. 23:02.718 --> 23:10.150 [SPEAKER_03]: One year ago, Pyotrack gouged out Ilina's eye to use it as magic for himself, then disappeared. 23:10.991 --> 23:25.755 [SPEAKER_03]: Now armed with a sacred oath and her sword, Ilina seeks vengeance against the boy she once loved, but when her journey leads her to a mere, a kid vagrant running from an order of human magic users, she learns that Pyotrack isn't just a traitor. 23:26.135 --> 23:30.362 [SPEAKER_03]: He's also a key player in a plot to free a demon queen. 23:30.781 --> 23:38.271 [SPEAKER_03]: growing up in a forgettable town with his abusive hulk of a father, Piotrek once nothing more than to be special and loved. 23:38.812 --> 23:52.230 [SPEAKER_03]: Initially he thinks he might have found it with the angel in the forest, but when his annoying insecurity at her magical abilities gets the better of him, he leaves for the city where he makes a desperate pact for dark and forbidden magic. 23:52.811 --> 23:57.497 [SPEAKER_03]: For the power he's dreamed of, not knowing it will cost him the only love he's ever known. 23:58.102 --> 24:04.521 [SPEAKER_03]: Now aware of Piotrek's wicked plans, Elena knows that she and Amir must stop his ritual to free the demon queen. 24:05.002 --> 24:08.612 [SPEAKER_03]: Still, she can't ignore the love she still inexplicably has for him. 24:09.074 --> 24:13.326 [SPEAKER_03]: The very same love she must shut away if she wants to protect the world. 24:13.306 --> 24:20.856 [SPEAKER_03]: I was born in the Philippines, but now live in Toronto, Canada, where I studied media production and screenwriting at Toronto Metropolitan University. 24:21.357 --> 24:39.921 [SPEAKER_03]: I currently work as a bookseller and diversity book club liaison at Indigo, Canada's largest book retailer, and I'm a writing fellow at Inkspire, a youth-led non-profit organization, all the best Samantha T. Awesome, CC, okay, word count there, and then you'll take on that. 24:40.711 --> 24:42.134 [SPEAKER_02]: so many thoughts on this one. 24:42.254 --> 24:43.716 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, the word can is 375. 24:44.097 --> 24:49.386 [SPEAKER_03]: I need to first and foremost, where's my magic wand. 24:50.548 --> 25:05.655 [SPEAKER_03]: Magic wand for this lovely writer, because this first paragraph is giving me all the metadata, everything I have title genre, word count comps, plus a clear and compelling hook, not just clear hook, compelling hook, 25:05.770 --> 25:13.450 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I read this and I go, okay, this is story about what happens when an angel goes in a quest for revenge against her human ex lover, like this is interesting. 25:13.510 --> 25:15.736 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't rep YA and I was like, yes, please. 25:16.378 --> 25:16.759 [SPEAKER_03]: So. 25:16.958 --> 25:17.379 [SPEAKER_03]: job. 25:17.519 --> 25:18.560 [SPEAKER_03]: Good job to this writer. 25:19.061 --> 25:24.850 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, this is so small, but you wrote a kid vagrant running from, isn't it a vagrant kid? 25:24.870 --> 25:25.490 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it is. 25:25.511 --> 25:29.236 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it matters that much, but it's just, I don't know, it tripped me up. 25:29.877 --> 25:30.137 [SPEAKER_03]: Plot. 25:30.318 --> 25:32.080 [SPEAKER_03]: Plot is what matters the most in the query letter. 25:32.781 --> 25:33.863 [SPEAKER_03]: From, for me, anyway. 25:34.283 --> 25:37.408 [SPEAKER_03]: This is actually really interesting question to all the agents who listen to our podcasts. 25:37.428 --> 25:39.391 [SPEAKER_03]: What matters the most in the query letter for you for me? 25:39.431 --> 25:40.873 [SPEAKER_03]: Definitely the plot paragraphs. 25:42.018 --> 25:44.944 [SPEAKER_03]: This is so good, so good. 25:45.385 --> 25:48.553 [SPEAKER_03]: Because you've established a mystery in the past timeline. 25:49.174 --> 25:52.221 [SPEAKER_03]: What makes Pyotrek Betray, Ielina? 25:52.241 --> 25:53.143 [SPEAKER_03]: That is the mystery. 25:53.764 --> 26:00.499 [SPEAKER_03]: And the best dual timeline stories make the reader experience dread in the past timeline. 26:00.884 --> 26:12.577 [SPEAKER_03]: In this case, because we know Piotrek is going to betray Alina, but we don't know how, and we don't know exactly why, and it makes the reader experience hope in the present timeline. 26:12.957 --> 26:19.545 [SPEAKER_03]: In this case, the hope that she will get her revenge, and that she will stop him from summoning the demon queen. 26:21.226 --> 26:28.174 [SPEAKER_03]: This dread and hope combination should be connected by the same plot point, and it is the betrayal. 26:28.525 --> 26:34.336 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's very important to note that hope does not have to be all fluffy cotton, okay? 26:34.617 --> 26:36.480 [SPEAKER_03]: Hope can be, I hope she gets her revenge. 26:37.202 --> 26:38.344 [SPEAKER_03]: Works for readers like me? 26:38.364 --> 26:40.508 [SPEAKER_03]: This is very important for people to realize. 26:40.548 --> 26:43.474 [SPEAKER_03]: They think, oh, hope this beautiful empathetic feeling it can be. 26:43.854 --> 26:46.620 [SPEAKER_03]: But it can also be like, I hope she kills him. 26:47.061 --> 26:49.926 [SPEAKER_03]: In fiction, people always in fiction. 26:50.092 --> 26:52.456 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I, I, I love this. 26:52.617 --> 26:53.458 [SPEAKER_03]: It's so, so good. 26:53.859 --> 26:56.885 [SPEAKER_03]: I did wonder again, please know this credit letter's fantastic. 26:57.626 --> 26:59.730 [SPEAKER_03]: You could send it out now and I'm sure you would get requests. 26:59.830 --> 27:08.927 [SPEAKER_03]: But since we're here, we're an educational podcast, that line, but when his annoying insecurity at her magical ability gets the better of him, I don't know that I like that line. 27:09.027 --> 27:10.570 [SPEAKER_03]: I think you're giving too much away with that line. 27:10.791 --> 27:11.312 [SPEAKER_03]: This is rare. 27:11.352 --> 27:13.095 [SPEAKER_03]: Usually people don't give away enough. 27:13.733 --> 27:17.429 [SPEAKER_03]: part of what is going to keep the reader hooked here is why did he betray her. 27:17.971 --> 27:23.254 [SPEAKER_03]: So you're sharing the emotionality of why he did it because he was insecure. 27:23.420 --> 27:24.863 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we need that. 27:24.943 --> 27:28.429 [SPEAKER_03]: You can share the plot if you want to because it happens early in the story. 27:28.449 --> 27:30.292 [SPEAKER_03]: You don't have to share it, but you can. 27:30.533 --> 27:33.258 [SPEAKER_03]: But I don't think you should be sharing emotion forward. 27:33.298 --> 27:34.239 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you know what I'm saying? 27:34.640 --> 27:38.367 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's simultaneously giving too much away without giving us any shape. 27:38.387 --> 27:47.042 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's kind of like lowering the tension without actually giving us any concrete thing to predict and to anticipate. 27:47.102 --> 27:47.503 [SPEAKER_03]: So 27:47.770 --> 27:52.197 [SPEAKER_03]: I would tweak that line, make it less explicit, a little bit more with mysterious. 27:52.737 --> 27:56.062 [SPEAKER_03]: You just don't have, this is one of those situations where you don't have to specify what happens. 27:56.843 --> 28:04.615 [SPEAKER_03]: But when the unexpected happens, he leaves, you know, he makes a dark pack, I don't know, I'm not going to write it well right now, but it's something that I would tweak. 28:04.595 --> 28:08.223 [SPEAKER_03]: I just really want to say, like, I only have applause for this. 28:08.284 --> 28:09.727 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, I know what the protagonist wants. 28:09.827 --> 28:10.910 [SPEAKER_03]: I know what's standing in her way. 28:10.990 --> 28:12.413 [SPEAKER_03]: I know what happens if she doesn't get it. 28:12.714 --> 28:19.670 [SPEAKER_03]: I know all this for Pio Trek 2 and there's like inherent conflict between the things they want and I will add as a final thing. 28:19.710 --> 28:21.895 [SPEAKER_03]: What I don't think they've talked about recently. 28:22.702 --> 28:24.726 [SPEAKER_03]: So much to said about the author paragraph. 28:24.746 --> 28:34.644 [SPEAKER_03]: What makes for a really awesome author paragraph and people always ask me about things like awards and conferences they attend and writing courses and these are all great things that you may choose to include in your author paragraph if you want to. 28:35.185 --> 28:42.398 [SPEAKER_03]: But this person included something that I think is so valuable and that we don't talk about often enough, which is the fact that she's a bookseller. 28:42.580 --> 28:51.515 [SPEAKER_03]: Let me tell you something, having him background as a bookseller can be such a big, big advantage for you when you decide to make it in the publishing industry. 28:51.876 --> 28:57.926 [SPEAKER_03]: First of all, all the love to our hero booksellers, but also this is not like because it's an empathetic, we look bookseller's thing. 28:58.227 --> 28:59.509 [SPEAKER_03]: We do, but that's not why. 28:59.489 --> 29:03.475 [SPEAKER_03]: it's actually because as a bookseller you understand certain things about the publishing industry. 29:03.815 --> 29:05.718 [SPEAKER_03]: You understand that books are returnable. 29:05.838 --> 29:11.266 [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about this on shooting the shit, you know, while ago you understand that it's super competitive. 29:11.306 --> 29:13.009 [SPEAKER_03]: You understand that shelf spaces limited. 29:13.069 --> 29:20.720 [SPEAKER_03]: You understand that readers come into the store and ask for books and ask for recommendations and don't buy all the books that people recommend. 29:20.740 --> 29:26.408 [SPEAKER_03]: Like you just understand more about the competitive nature of publishing when you have a bookseller background. 29:26.388 --> 29:38.661 [SPEAKER_03]: So, when I see this in the query letter, I go, this is going to be a client who will is more likely to be savvy and more likely to understand what it takes to make it in this frankly ruthless industry. 29:38.681 --> 29:39.985 [SPEAKER_03]: So, great job. 29:40.005 --> 29:41.108 [SPEAKER_03]: This is a great query letter. 29:41.168 --> 29:42.692 [SPEAKER_03]: You really knocked it out of the park. 29:42.672 --> 29:44.454 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, look at me doing a sports, no, no. 29:46.477 --> 29:47.679 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, CC. 29:47.859 --> 30:00.536 [SPEAKER_02]: Also, something as well that I think agents and editors came to consider as well as that if you are a bookseller, you are going to be championed by other booksellers, you know, because booksellers support each other. 30:00.636 --> 30:11.751 [SPEAKER_02]: So if this book gets published and she works for Indigo, all other Indigo booksellers are probably going to be hand-selling this book as well, 30:11.731 --> 30:13.894 [SPEAKER_02]: Somebody in really good stead as well. 30:14.394 --> 30:16.296 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Kali, handing it across to you. 30:16.316 --> 30:22.824 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to go on the record saying CC was very positive and she used a sports metaphor. 30:23.045 --> 30:25.948 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think we need to take our temperature So she should sit all over there. 30:26.549 --> 30:27.690 [SPEAKER_01]: And she's her wand. 30:27.870 --> 30:29.032 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, excuse me. 30:29.072 --> 30:30.674 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you saying I'm not normally positive? 30:30.814 --> 30:31.415 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a delight. 30:31.855 --> 30:32.696 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 30:33.377 --> 30:34.318 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a delight. 30:34.378 --> 30:38.503 [SPEAKER_01]: You're level of upbeats suggest that you have beat all the illnesses that you've been battling this fall. 30:38.583 --> 30:40.185 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was saying. 30:40.857 --> 30:45.482 [SPEAKER_01]: So this person did a great job, you know, CCL obviously highlighted a bunch of incredible things here. 30:46.003 --> 31:04.182 [SPEAKER_01]: What I want to highlight is something that I think the reason why we get so many, you know, fantasy queries on this show and a lot of times I'll go, ah, there's something not working here, maybe I can't figure what it is, but what this one does well, which I can finally point out, because this is this one's doing it really well. 31:04.162 --> 31:10.491 [SPEAKER_01]: So we get a lot of queries that seemingly, and especially I'm talking about the fantasy space, have stakes. 31:10.551 --> 31:14.657 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the world is ending, and we're like, oh, that should be a stake. 31:14.677 --> 31:17.160 [SPEAKER_01]: The author's like, our roadstakes, the world's ending. 31:17.581 --> 31:22.187 [SPEAKER_01]: But what this one does differently is that not only is there a big world stake here. 31:22.307 --> 31:26.333 [SPEAKER_01]: There is a very personal stake, and we feel very deeply invested in the personal stake. 31:26.353 --> 31:30.118 [SPEAKER_01]: And the personal stake feels personal because literally her eye ball was stabbed out. 31:30.098 --> 31:32.061 [SPEAKER_01]: So that is what I want to highlight here. 31:32.122 --> 31:41.538 [SPEAKER_01]: So not only do we have world stakes, we have personal stakes that SCC pointed out are connected, which is very important, but we feel very deeply because SCC said we are rooting for her. 31:41.919 --> 31:44.643 [SPEAKER_01]: And part of the hope is that we hope that she gets this MFR. 31:44.984 --> 31:45.966 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 31:45.986 --> 31:48.470 [SPEAKER_01]: So, other thing I want to talk about. 31:49.392 --> 31:49.852 [SPEAKER_01]: Why? 31:50.494 --> 31:53.659 [SPEAKER_01]: Do we actually think this is why MFR? 32:00.541 --> 32:01.844 [SPEAKER_03]: We're all just positive today. 32:01.864 --> 32:02.765 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, it's not just me. 32:02.785 --> 32:05.671 [SPEAKER_03]: There's something in the water and we're not even in the same place. 32:05.691 --> 32:07.655 [SPEAKER_02]: I've never heard that MFA. 32:07.675 --> 32:10.079 [SPEAKER_02]: There was a very delayed reaction. 32:10.099 --> 32:13.145 [SPEAKER_01]: Listen, I'm like, I'm trying to not swear as much guys. 32:13.185 --> 32:14.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's my nearest isolation. 32:15.069 --> 32:15.770 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the good. 32:15.951 --> 32:16.291 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 32:16.392 --> 32:17.013 [SPEAKER_02]: I love that. 32:17.033 --> 32:17.373 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 32:17.393 --> 32:18.195 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, carry on. 32:18.277 --> 32:21.602 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, YA, do we actually think this is YA? 32:21.722 --> 32:24.446 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a couple of things to talk about in that category. 32:24.727 --> 32:26.630 [SPEAKER_01]: It can be YA because you say it's YA. 32:26.650 --> 32:29.754 [SPEAKER_01]: It can be YA because the age of the kids is YA. 32:29.995 --> 32:30.856 [SPEAKER_01]: That's enough to be YA. 32:30.916 --> 32:32.278 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a couple things I want to flag. 32:32.859 --> 32:35.363 [SPEAKER_01]: The way that you wrote this hook is actually very mature. 32:35.383 --> 32:36.905 [SPEAKER_01]: So I want to flag that. 32:36.945 --> 32:39.229 [SPEAKER_01]: I know CC pointed out it's a strong hook it is, right? 32:39.549 --> 32:41.773 [SPEAKER_01]: Quest for revenge against a human X lover. 32:42.193 --> 32:45.058 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a very mature way of saying something. 32:45.078 --> 32:46.680 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just want to flag that. 32:46.964 --> 33:10.069 [SPEAKER_01]: The other thing I want to flag about why is so you call this morally gray characters and as soon as you said morally gray I know that you know what you're doing because your bookseller and what you're doing is you're looting to dark romance and so we have to be you didn't call this dark romance but that is something that we have to be a little bit like let's turn on our brains a little bit what do we want to endorse for the way audience when we think of a morally gray. 33:10.319 --> 33:17.208 [SPEAKER_01]: and potentially dark romance because at the end you say she can't ignore the love she's still inexplicably has for him. 33:17.629 --> 33:20.052 [SPEAKER_01]: The very same love she must shut away she wants to protect the world. 33:20.472 --> 33:24.277 [SPEAKER_01]: If these two get back together you're essentially endorsing abuse. 33:24.878 --> 33:31.948 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we have to just I just want to flag that as, you know, maybe that can work in morally gray dark romance for adults. 33:32.068 --> 33:34.411 [SPEAKER_01]: For why we just have to be like, let's take a pause. 33:34.551 --> 33:35.652 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that what we really mean? 33:35.693 --> 33:39.077 [SPEAKER_01]: What are the consequences of that if that is what you mean? 33:39.057 --> 33:40.842 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's all I wanted to flag there. 33:41.122 --> 33:42.506 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think you do a really great job. 33:42.526 --> 33:44.330 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a very interesting book. 33:44.351 --> 33:47.659 [SPEAKER_01]: Your Comps are on point, your book seller, that makes perfect sense. 33:48.060 --> 33:48.662 [SPEAKER_01]: This sounds great. 33:48.922 --> 33:49.664 [SPEAKER_02]: This sounds really good. 33:51.168 --> 33:51.910 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Kali. 33:52.110 --> 33:54.737 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, CC, what was in those opening pages? 33:55.510 --> 34:11.275 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so we have our angel, our protagonist sitting alone at the bar in a musty tavern and she asks the bartender if he knows where the amber brotherhood meets and the bartender is asking her about. 34:11.542 --> 34:34.883 [SPEAKER_03]: her eye patch, essentially like how she lost her eye and he's saying I won't give you information unless you give me information and she gets really annoyed and you know in conversation she actually becomes aggressive towards him and he kicks her out of the bar and we learned through interiority and through a flashback what happened between her and Pyotrx so we see Pyotrx between her we see her 34:35.099 --> 34:42.493 [SPEAKER_03]: first confused that he was hurting her thinking maybe he was possessed, but then realizing that that was actually him. 34:42.608 --> 34:50.277 [SPEAKER_03]: And if it were a human, she would have died losing all that blood, but he also wouldn't have done that to her if she were human. 34:50.317 --> 35:02.431 [SPEAKER_03]: So again, we see Pyotrack doing what he does and we see him disappearing into the forest with the amber brotherhoods emblem on his cloak almost mocking her. 35:02.531 --> 35:06.075 [SPEAKER_03]: So obviously this is why she wants to know where the amber brotherhood meets. 35:06.335 --> 35:10.540 [SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, that's what 35:10.722 --> 35:11.644 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, my take. 35:12.186 --> 35:23.736 [SPEAKER_03]: So from from the top, I, the first line reads, the girl with the eye patch said alone at the bar of the musty tavern her headloat as she swirled a tinkered filled with nothing but water. 35:23.935 --> 35:25.437 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't love this first line. 35:25.537 --> 35:26.819 [SPEAKER_03]: First lines are really important. 35:27.099 --> 35:28.561 [SPEAKER_03]: Really, really, really, really important. 35:28.601 --> 35:31.344 [SPEAKER_03]: However much you care about your first line, you should care about even more. 35:31.845 --> 35:32.806 [SPEAKER_03]: It's purely descriptive. 35:32.886 --> 35:35.670 [SPEAKER_03]: It has lots of clauses, and it feels generic. 35:35.830 --> 35:37.472 [SPEAKER_03]: And your book is not generic at all. 35:37.793 --> 35:39.935 [SPEAKER_03]: So this first line is not doing your story justice. 35:40.136 --> 35:41.097 [SPEAKER_03]: I would think of another one. 35:41.658 --> 35:42.859 [SPEAKER_03]: You have some great lines. 35:43.079 --> 35:46.924 [SPEAKER_03]: None that I thought to myself, this should be a first line necessarily. 35:47.485 --> 35:50.409 [SPEAKER_03]: But I'm saying this to say, you have some amazing lines in this book. 35:50.429 --> 35:51.851 [SPEAKER_03]: And so you can write amazing lines. 35:52.231 --> 35:53.773 [SPEAKER_03]: Please go to it your first line. 35:53.956 --> 35:56.199 [SPEAKER_03]: example is a description of her eye. 35:56.219 --> 36:00.123 [SPEAKER_03]: It was a dark sharp eye as observant as two. 36:00.824 --> 36:05.950 [SPEAKER_03]: Love that, as observant as two, but come on, that's so great, so so great. 36:06.671 --> 36:15.762 [SPEAKER_03]: I like that she, when she's talking to the barkeep, she says thanks to him, but through interiority we get extra layers. 36:16.282 --> 36:21.808 [SPEAKER_03]: that reveal her power dynamics, the power dynamics in the room, the power dynamics in her life. 36:22.629 --> 36:24.250 [SPEAKER_03]: So it is very, very good. 36:24.310 --> 36:24.951 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to say that. 36:25.091 --> 36:29.095 [SPEAKER_03]: Something that was not believable to me was the bar keeping so curious about how she lost her eye. 36:29.476 --> 36:31.738 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I just, I couldn't get into it. 36:31.778 --> 36:34.361 [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, no, he's a bar keep, he's busy. 36:34.401 --> 36:35.762 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, do you know what I'm saying? 36:35.802 --> 36:37.844 [SPEAKER_03]: Like it just doesn't seem that believable to me. 36:37.904 --> 36:39.526 [SPEAKER_03]: He was a baddie. 36:39.686 --> 36:40.427 [SPEAKER_01]: Or he was a baddie. 36:40.447 --> 36:41.328 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just going to say that. 36:41.348 --> 36:43.470 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought he must have been a bad guy, you know? 36:43.737 --> 36:48.322 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but even if he's a bad guy, like he's there to serve her drinks, like do you know what I'm saying? 36:48.342 --> 36:50.945 [SPEAKER_03]: Like it just feels like if you felt forced to me. 36:51.265 --> 36:51.966 [SPEAKER_03]: That's what it felt like. 36:52.026 --> 36:57.772 [SPEAKER_03]: It felt like we wanted her to think about the story of how she lost her eye and so the guy kept insisting. 36:57.792 --> 37:01.315 [SPEAKER_03]: And so we went on the flashback and that to me just read is really forced. 37:01.335 --> 37:09.044 [SPEAKER_03]: So I personally don't think that it's a dynamic that works, which is actually tied to my bigger note for my taste. 37:09.704 --> 37:12.327 [SPEAKER_03]: This is too zoomed out. 37:13.049 --> 37:17.677 [SPEAKER_03]: on a technical level, technical line level, you've done an amazing job at weaving in backstory. 37:17.957 --> 37:21.684 [SPEAKER_03]: It's baked into the present scene, which is exactly what you're supposed to do. 37:22.145 --> 37:24.869 [SPEAKER_03]: But what the present scene is matters. 37:25.310 --> 37:32.222 [SPEAKER_03]: And in my opinion, you'll pick the present scene that isn't sufficiently curiosity inducing and that felt forced for the reasons that I've already mentioned. 37:32.708 --> 37:36.773 [SPEAKER_03]: So I wish you could be here so I could ask you like, why did you pick, why did you pick this? 37:36.854 --> 37:39.457 [SPEAKER_03]: That's your opening scene, the present day one. 37:39.777 --> 37:41.159 [SPEAKER_03]: And did you consider others? 37:41.800 --> 37:48.109 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I feel like there might be like a special, a better opening scene for your novel, the present day one. 37:48.529 --> 37:52.835 [SPEAKER_03]: And then if you really need the backstory to be woven in, I think that you're weaving in too much. 37:53.536 --> 37:55.318 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is the second note on dosage. 37:55.899 --> 37:59.003 [SPEAKER_03]: We don't need to know all the details of how she, 37:58.983 --> 38:01.646 [SPEAKER_03]: lost her eye immediately in the first five pages. 38:01.666 --> 38:02.167 [SPEAKER_03]: We just don't. 38:02.407 --> 38:03.669 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, there's a mystery to that. 38:03.749 --> 38:05.711 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's keep the mystery going for a little bit longer. 38:05.731 --> 38:09.756 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's fine to give us some shape, but you gave us way too much shape. 38:09.776 --> 38:11.659 [SPEAKER_03]: And by the way, you did it in a really good way. 38:12.159 --> 38:13.041 [SPEAKER_03]: Like it's strong. 38:13.161 --> 38:16.064 [SPEAKER_03]: It's strong writing, strong scene work. 38:16.084 --> 38:23.033 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think that in the dance of withholding and revealing, you're revealing too much. 38:23.266 --> 38:29.061 [SPEAKER_03]: I personally, this is up to you, but if there's a different scene that you would have considered starting your novel, I would play around with that. 38:29.422 --> 38:31.909 [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, to all our listeners, it's really important to remember this. 38:32.410 --> 38:40.110 [SPEAKER_03]: When it comes to choosing the best place to start, there is no such thing as one best place. 38:40.090 --> 38:44.096 [SPEAKER_03]: Go to your favorite movie, go to your favorite novel, the one that has the best beginning you've ever read. 38:44.497 --> 38:47.922 [SPEAKER_03]: That beginning is a best place. 38:48.042 --> 38:49.765 [SPEAKER_03]: But it is not the best place. 38:50.146 --> 38:51.468 [SPEAKER_03]: There could have been another one. 38:51.488 --> 38:54.873 [SPEAKER_03]: There's always so many versions of a really great place to start. 38:55.514 --> 39:00.782 [SPEAKER_03]: And I encourage people to actually think about in the work they've already read and already watched. 39:00.762 --> 39:03.587 [SPEAKER_03]: encourage them to think about alternative beginnings. 39:04.168 --> 39:08.797 [SPEAKER_03]: So you guys know I'm obsessed with legally blonde, and so legally blonde begins with L and the sorority, right? 39:09.097 --> 39:09.798 [SPEAKER_03]: What other way? 39:10.119 --> 39:12.563 [SPEAKER_03]: What other place could that movie have begun? 39:13.305 --> 39:17.512 [SPEAKER_03]: When I asked that question to my students, people also always think about other scenes in the movie. 39:17.993 --> 39:24.525 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, they go, it could start with her at the restaurant, it could start, but there's also the version of a scene that has never been shown. 39:24.927 --> 39:26.609 [SPEAKER_03]: And as a creator, you get to do that. 39:26.990 --> 39:29.473 [SPEAKER_03]: You get to choose a scene that doesn't exist at all. 39:29.853 --> 39:35.961 [SPEAKER_03]: In your own work, especially, but if you start with other people's works, it kind of trains your brain into thinking like, best place. 39:36.641 --> 39:37.422 [SPEAKER_03]: What are the options? 39:37.482 --> 39:38.524 [SPEAKER_03]: The options are infinite. 39:38.584 --> 39:39.705 [SPEAKER_03]: That's exciting, right? 39:40.106 --> 39:43.510 [SPEAKER_03]: So I would consider a different place here for the presidency. 39:43.650 --> 39:48.156 [SPEAKER_03]: And I would withhold a little bit more in terms of what happened in the back story. 39:49.637 --> 39:51.299 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, CC, thank you so much. 39:51.580 --> 39:53.382 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Kali, what's your take on that? 39:54.053 --> 39:59.899 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so the line, it was a dark sharp eye as observant as two. 40:00.199 --> 40:02.962 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's one of the best lines we've ever met on the show. 40:03.062 --> 40:05.604 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we've had some really great queries lately, guys. 40:05.644 --> 40:08.307 [SPEAKER_01]: You guys are totally ratcheting up the level of quality here. 40:08.988 --> 40:10.049 [SPEAKER_01]: That is blowing my mind. 40:10.089 --> 40:11.730 [SPEAKER_01]: That's so smart, it's so good. 40:11.810 --> 40:14.093 [SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes what happens is there's like a beautiful line. 40:14.113 --> 40:18.197 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, I don't want to change this whole scene because there's one beautiful line. 40:18.577 --> 40:22.761 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, maybe there is a way that you can keep this line and do what C C said. 40:22.741 --> 40:25.464 [SPEAKER_01]: change it up a little bit is this the right place for this dessert. 40:25.564 --> 40:25.905 [SPEAKER_01]: I agree. 40:25.945 --> 40:27.326 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we forced it a little bit. 40:27.346 --> 40:30.490 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just playing doubles advocate when I said maybe the bartenders of ad guy. 40:30.770 --> 40:37.958 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I think we are probably over sharing a little bit in terms of some of the details. 40:37.998 --> 40:47.890 [SPEAKER_01]: Like an example of what I don't think we need is as soon as he said something like, you know, not sure your lover will be very happy about that iPatch which is a weird thing for bartender to say. 40:48.490 --> 40:52.495 [SPEAKER_01]: She just like goes back 40:52.778 --> 40:54.880 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the tree house they built, it has this little memory. 40:54.900 --> 40:59.305 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, like that's an example of why did the park keep up to say love or because that's kind of weird. 40:59.445 --> 41:03.389 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it leads to her thinking, oh, going back and reminiscing about that. 41:03.409 --> 41:10.776 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the piece where I'm like, if you, that's the piece that feels forced, but I think CCR already got to that, but I wanted to make sure that I also shared my, my two cents. 41:11.417 --> 41:14.100 [SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that, again, I think these pages do really well. 41:14.140 --> 41:21.267 [SPEAKER_01]: Because often I will say it's like, if something dramatic happens in the first five pages all off to go, I don't feel anything for these characters yet. 41:21.247 --> 41:24.050 [SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna write a really dramatic scene and like I don't feel anything. 41:24.070 --> 41:36.844 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually feel really deeply I think revenge is such a great just like motivator because I actually feel really deeply about the scene where she describes her losing her eye I felt very visceral about that. 41:37.204 --> 41:38.966 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought that was really really good. 41:39.186 --> 41:45.313 [SPEAKER_01]: The only thing that I think and this could be a whole like You know, she's an angel and not a human thing, but she says very clearly 41:46.019 --> 41:51.555 [SPEAKER_01]: PeaDrek, she called his name once more with her last of her energy, what about our promises? 41:51.575 --> 41:55.025 [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like that was a very tidy sentence. 41:55.045 --> 42:00.079 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't know if it could just be, you know, because she's an angel, she can be. 42:00.768 --> 42:07.558 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know coherent, when she's an extreme amounts of pain, but I don't think that it's too coherent. 42:07.918 --> 42:10.763 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that needs to be a little bit more of something a bit more chaotic. 42:11.343 --> 42:13.346 [SPEAKER_01]: But all in all, it is really good. 42:13.547 --> 42:19.295 [SPEAKER_01]: I definitely have some questions, Marks, and I definitely wish this person was on the show with us so we could figure out some things here. 42:19.315 --> 42:29.610 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I think we could brainstorm something really interesting, but if this person hasn't queried yet, go forth, you know, just have a great time, and I hope that you find some incredible agents. 42:29.827 --> 42:32.193 [SPEAKER_01]: Hope you can take our advice and it means something to you. 42:32.234 --> 42:41.319 [SPEAKER_01]: If you are querying, I hope that you're kind of getting lots of requests and, you know, again, if some passes are coming in, maybe this is enlightening something for you because there's definitely something here. 42:41.379 --> 42:44.427 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really strong and well done. 42:45.672 --> 42:55.029 [SPEAKER_02]: Ki-Kali and for all the agents who listen to the podcast because we know there are a lot of you who listen to the podcast It's this query appeals to you. 42:55.170 --> 42:56.292 [SPEAKER_02]: Please reach out to us. 42:56.772 --> 43:02.283 [SPEAKER_02]: We are always very happy to put you in touch with the author If there is any interest from your part. 43:02.723 --> 43:03.685 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Kali and CC. 43:03.705 --> 43:05.248 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for your critique. 43:05.268 --> 43:06.430 [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, let's hear we go. 43:06.470 --> 43:07.933 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's hear we go 43:07.913 --> 43:15.386 [SPEAKER_03]: Any matchmaking that happens to this podcast is not an endorsement of either writer or agent and no one should construe that as such please people. 43:15.466 --> 43:19.974 [SPEAKER_03]: We are here to celebrate love and to share, but we are not vetting anyone. 43:20.175 --> 43:21.738 [SPEAKER_03]: That is your job on both sides. 43:21.858 --> 43:23.200 [SPEAKER_03]: Please everyone remember this. 43:23.601 --> 43:27.087 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, had to say it, recent events and all. 43:27.353 --> 43:29.316 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very happy to have our lawyer, C.C. 43:29.336 --> 43:32.560 [SPEAKER_02]: Put on a lawyer hat every night again and save us from a lot of trouble. 43:33.100 --> 43:35.984 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just always trying to get every writer on this podcast. 43:36.004 --> 43:36.505 [SPEAKER_00]: You really are. 43:36.885 --> 43:37.967 [SPEAKER_02]: But it really are. 43:38.568 --> 43:44.936 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just like, well, we'll, we'll say and do whatever to, to try and learn them the agent. 43:44.956 --> 43:45.196 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 43:45.557 --> 43:51.424 [SPEAKER_02]: So join us next week for our, all the interview, and then we'll be back to books with hooks the week after that. 43:51.605 --> 43:52.546 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much everyone. 43:52.746 --> 43:53.547 [SPEAKER_02]: Bye. 43:54.100 --> 43:58.866 [SPEAKER_02]: CCLera is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. 43:58.886 --> 44:06.615 [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to query CC, please refer to the Submission Guidelines at www.wshoman.com. 44:07.276 --> 44:15.906 [SPEAKER_02]: Carly Waters is a literary agent at PS Literary Agency, but a work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency. 44:15.886 --> 44:29.507 [SPEAKER_02]: and the views expressed by Kali on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS literary agency.