[SPEAKER_04]: Welcome back to another episode of the Street Alpha Podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm your host, Tux.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we are back with another banger.
[SPEAKER_04]: So today we are in Tampa and we drove all the way to FFRE.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're here with Joe.
[SPEAKER_04]: I consider him a legend.
[SPEAKER_04]: You've done so much over the years.
[SPEAKER_04]: Appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're a part of some legendary builds and drag racing right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: So before we begin guys, let's give it around applause for Joe of FFRE.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for making this happen.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is short notice.
[SPEAKER_04]: You shout at the J, J was able to make this happen within a couple days.
[SPEAKER_04]: Literally.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, got us linked up together and here we are.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it's the holidays, of course.
[SPEAKER_04]: And obviously, you know, you probably want to be home with your family, of course, but you're here doing a podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: So much respect and thank you really appreciate this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks, Wayne.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you mentioned that your dad was big and select the offshore boat racing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, my grandfather and my dad, they both built engines for offshore raceboats competitively.
[SPEAKER_05]: My dad did a little stint in racing the boats for a while, but I always wanted to be an offshore raceboat, you know, throttleman or driver or something, you know, along those lines.
[SPEAKER_05]: At some point I was able to do that, you know, one of the local guys here has a couple raceboats and one was needing an engine, you know, so I went down that road with him, you know, and I was building him engines and they ran good and he was winning races and one of the lower-class boats, which was a P4 boat, had a 80-mile-an-hour speed limit.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, if you went fashion, it was like bracket racing essentially but on the water, you know that kept the funds, you know, to where everyone could kind of afford to do it, you know, and we went offshore boat racing, you know, and I throttled and we did really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: We finished second in the national second in the world.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we kind of used that platform to train guys drivers for his other boat, which was a super V light boat.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the guys that essentially I was throttling and drove with me, it wound up driving for him.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was the higher-class boat, you know, and a faster canopy style boat.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I was just like a stepping stone for a lot of those drivers, you have to say, but it was a lot of fun and, you know, I got to kind of check that one off my bucket list and
[SPEAKER_05]: My dad and my grandfather were my heroes, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_05]: Cause everyone loved them and they were the boat race guys and whatnot, and I kinda wanted to do it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's kinda cool to get it done.
[SPEAKER_04]: So one of the things that you mentioned were, which I thought pretty interesting was, you mentioned that a lot of the boats that, we're doing like the smuggling back in the day, we're like the same boats.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was like, how would you even know that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, these people even get access to these.
[SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, they have a lot of money to do this stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: But they have to be tapped in when people will know what it builds them to get those boats to go as fast as they are.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brilliant.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're the coolest guy in the world if you build engines right and you can get the job done right so ultimately that's that's what happened You know a lot of those guys we had the mercury contract and we also did all of the US customs boats right so all the Inboard big block shavies, you know got rebuilt at custom engine service Okay, well in the same instance, you know if you're a smuggling boat and you need an engine's where would you go right?
[SPEAKER_05]: so you know those guys always wanted engines that made more power than the US customs boats and you know so that was a thing you know so
[SPEAKER_04]: grandpa definitely supplied some engines to some people that you know move some products across the ocean yeah so yeah so today right you are known to be working with some of the most efficient engines right now those boats back then you had to build them pretty much to be efficient for a long period of time so did you kind of like pick up some of the skills or techniques from building those engines back in a day or anything like that
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure, I think efficiency and reliability are two separate things, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think the offshore stuff you need to make, make them reliable as you possibly can, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So those guys run for hours on end, wide open, the props leave the water.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it unloads the engine, then loads the engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: So when the prop leaves the water, the throttleman has to pull off of the throttles.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it doesn't over-reve the engine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you've got a driver and a throttleman.
[SPEAKER_05]: So those guys have to do a good job, you know, of taking care of the engine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the engine needs to be reliable.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it needs to be strong enough.
[SPEAKER_05]: All the valve train needs to be stable enough to be able to go through loading on loading hours at a time at.
[SPEAKER_05]: The engine speeds aren't nearly as much as what we do in the drag race stuff, but, you know, say 6,000 rpm, you know, 6500 wide open for an hour and a half.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, how we're in a half, an hour and a half, so, you know, oil cooling, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you got to have a big oil cooler on them, you got to have enough capacity oil, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You got to have a water flow that flows through the engine, it's a durability thing at that point.
[SPEAKER_05]: More than it is, hey, let's make another five horsepower, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so they need to be able to last because you can't win the race.
[SPEAKER_05]: broke down floating 25 miles offshore, you know, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: The thing has to stay running at all times.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if it's a stupid question, but like how are these boats getting fuel on the meantime?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, they carry a lot of fuel, 50 gallon, the small boats that would run for an hour with a single engine would hold close to 50 gallons.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a big block Chevy running wide open.
[SPEAKER_05]: So twin engine boats, hold 250 gallons.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure they probably have to calculate how much fuel is on there as well, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: For weight?
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then the burn rate and how the boat flies through the air, based off of that.
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of the guys will have ballast tanks, so Key West is one of the races where you run into the harbor and it's completely flat, right, because it's encapsulated by a barrier island and the main island down there, which will run inside this harbor, it's flat, their winds are died down.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you're bailing all the water out of the boat, essentially, in the ballast tank and then you head back off shore where it's
[SPEAKER_05]: 100 foot deep or 70 feet deep you know and you've got these winds and these currents that these waves build and you know if you ran the boat out that harbor in the same condition uh that you did in the harbor right it's going to fly and be real light and maybe fly the nose so you would fill the ballast tanks as you head offshore
[SPEAKER_05]: So when the boat leaves the water it flies level right instead of bow higher like if you would wheelium a brighter cycle right same principle right So a boat as much as and it is an airplane at that point, you know, so you got to get it to fly level land level, you know, and what not so and some of these boats like were they running longer than an hour and a half or
[SPEAKER_05]: yeah back in the day i mean you didn't even see the offshore races you just had a compass heading that you would run out to and you would turn out another boat that was anchored up you know uh forty fifty miles this direction at a compass heading you had a navigator at all times now we don't have navigators you just have a draw drivers and throttle right
[SPEAKER_05]: back in the day you had navigators you had no GPS as you just had a compass and you had a heading that you would just head off to and whether it would be a time-based deal, you know, and you knew that you'd start looking for something, a boolean or a turn boolean or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, there's always more to it, it's not just as simple as just getting into boat and driving on water.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, the guys that are good, right, winners win, 100%.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, so ultimately, you know, you run it a couple times and you've figured it out.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, in that same thing applies to racing lawnmowers or offshore boats or whatever it is, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, the endurance of the boat, you know, is the dependability, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You really had to build them right, because if you did it, it showed its face right away.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know?
[SPEAKER_04]: And so like even something like that, well you just said like it seems like it's still a part of your, your brand, so to speak right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Especially working with Brett, everything that he's doing or has been doing is well calculated and it's like done the right way.
[SPEAKER_04]: So most people cut corners, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And it seems like he doesn't, it seems like he does things the proper way.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's buying and investing in all the proper parts to make his car go as fast as it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not everybody has the money to do that stuff, but I'm sure he worked hard to obviously be able to afford those things and have the right data to get to where he's at today and be involved with the right machine shop, of course, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think the biggest thing is getting the right team together.
[SPEAKER_05]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and, you know, Brett works tirelessly right at it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's a lot of money to do this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: We all know that, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, Brett's not rich, I'm not rich, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, the accumulation of the right guys and the right spot, all with common goals, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So, every year we set our goals, and we go after them, and the end of the year we figured out how good we did, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I think that helps, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: That helps a guy like him, and...
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think if you look at all the other teams that are successful in the racing that we do, you see that, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You see a group of guys that are all trying to go in the same direction.
[SPEAKER_05]: And sometimes,
[SPEAKER_05]: We financially help each other, sometimes it's just through physical labor and work, you know, but ultimately we're all moving in that direction.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that makes the difference, you know, for like guys like Brett and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: So you've seen his car transform from when he first brought it to you up until now, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there is, I'm not sure what his car was making when you guys first started working within what roughly was it?
[SPEAKER_05]: 1200 horsepower, you know, maybe 14 or 1500 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, the most.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I want to talk about pretty much the evolution of how that has shifted to most cars today.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like most cars today are making on the street fast ones.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's say tx2k or whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Those cars are making well over 1500 horsepower now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's almost like you can't even go there with the 1200 horsepower car because you can't even compete.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you're not one of the cool kids.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're not.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's terrible.
[SPEAKER_04]: So a few years ago, I'm sure at some point, I can't even honestly, I wouldn't even know when a thousand was cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Honestly, I'm not sure how many years ago that would be.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's changed dramatically, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't matter.
[SPEAKER_04]: So how has that affected your business?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because people who are street racing and so on, probably have a different budget than somebody who's drag racing, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think at some point,
[SPEAKER_05]: Everybody started making over a thousand horsepower like every engine in our shop today makes over probably 1250 horsepower There's every single one everyone.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's not one in the shop that makes less than that.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's in here and I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's you saw there's 50 engines 55 engines going through currently so At some point when that hurdle changed I think you saw
[SPEAKER_05]: all the engine builders in the market right you know uh there's a lot of the LS guys that could put their stuff together right yeah um so there's a section for those guys right there's the coyote guys that you know started with stock blocks you know and stock short blocks and make 1,100 yeah but at some point it needs to go to a machine shop and get done right uh the coyote
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, an LS block might need sleeves if it's aluminum block if it's a steel block They're gonna bore it and stroke it and put studs in it and need all this machine work So at some point it's got to go to that, you know, to a machine shop And I think where we saw our business start to flourish is at that point when you bring an engine to a machine shop
[SPEAKER_05]: for one, the transparency between everybody, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't allow anybody to just bring me their parts and I build what you want, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So we've designed packages, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So we validated each step of the way.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that way we can offer a package that we know is gonna work.
[SPEAKER_05]: and through the hurdles of figuring out 1,200 to 1,500 horsepower and 15 to 2,000 and 2,000 to 2,500.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's all these steps and failures along the way.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think getting hooked up with a good machine shop that has done it and validated it.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of value in that.
[SPEAKER_05]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_05]: For the end consumer,
[SPEAKER_05]: guys only sometimes have one shot at this this is their dream right they save up all this money um... they want to build this mustang or super or are you know whatever it might be you know and um...
[SPEAKER_05]: Really, I think the biggest thing is getting with the right shop, and they've only got the opportunity to do it once, you know, so don't screw that up, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_05]: So find someone that's done it and that stands behind it and has validated it and it's a good part.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a good product that you're getting.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that's where that's kind of pushed us a little bit more towards the forefront, is because we do good work.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, you said all the engines here, over 1200, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Have you recently done anything that's less than that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Or it's just becoming, if throughout this phase or are they going to this machine shop, it's probably, they're probably going to do high horsepower, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I think that's what you see, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: In the market nowadays, there's the guys that cater to just their general machinist, anything comes in the door whether they build it or not, they don't say no.
[SPEAKER_05]: We say no more often than we say yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: But that allows us to kind of stay in our market, stay in our niche, keep parts on the shelf.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, right, everything kind of works well that way, right, no.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, so that's where we fit in that market.
[SPEAKER_05]: You see the same thing with, like, say, Proline, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Proline is not going to build a small walk for you, you know, so that's not their wheelhouse, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you want a himmy, you know what I mean to go in a pro mod, you know, we're not the money to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, you're going to, you know, go to probably proline, you know, and they keep them on the shelf.
[SPEAKER_05]: All the guys know how to do them.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's no questions.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's expectations are met, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so I think that's the difference in the market that you see now with the horsepower, you know, being something that drives that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So over the past, maybe this past year, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: There really hasn't been much engine platform development in terms of like new engines coming out.
[SPEAKER_04]: So are you looking forward to anything coming out?
[SPEAKER_04]: Soon that you're gonna be able to implement your business
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I think we're going to probably stick to the three that we currently do, which is the coyotes, the two jays, and the V10 stuff, you know, that's kind of our bread and butter.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a couple that are on our radar that some guys want us to work on some BMW stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's obviously the Nissan stuff that's out that VQ 56 deal, you know, that some of those guys are running, you know, so.
[SPEAKER_04]: The Nissan.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think it's the VK 5K, VK 6.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep, exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's that.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's even a new platform.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's been around.
[SPEAKER_05]: But for us, it would be new.
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, there's a lot of technology and all the new stuff, you know, all the new engines are really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: The castings allow us to make a bunch of power with them, you know, so like that Nissan engine, you know, and no guys are flying with that thing, you know, they're making a ton of power, they're making well over 2000 now.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so I suspect that's going to be something similar like the coyote I bet they go down the same path.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, the V10 stuff that we do, that's really cool stuff, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: We could do probably as much of those as we want to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, um, but nothing too crazy coming down the line, you know, we're working on some BMW stuff for for one shop, but um, nothing too crazy new, you know, has there been any engines that you've come across right now that outside from the coyote that you feel, um, have a, have a bright future ahead.
[SPEAKER_05]: the coyote.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, just the development stuff that we've got going on with the coyote is so good.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think, you know, with the new billet block that we've got going on and we're working on a bunch of other stuff, you know, that we've already ran.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're just trying to get inventory of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So before we release it, so it's really a neat platform because they made so many of them.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's so many customers.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's such an efficient engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a killer.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's probably one of the best engines I've ever worked with, you know, so I think that's why you see us put so many eggs in one basket, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, because it is so good.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the market is so large, you know, so
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think we've seen the limitations of the coyote as a whole.
[SPEAKER_05]: We might have found the limitations of the cast factory block, but the engine as a whole, yeah, we're nowhere near the end of that guy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so what is it about since we're already on that topic, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is it about the, um, the coyote that makes it as great as it is?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure there's a bunch of different things, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But what is a one main thing directly that you feel is a biggest impact on why it is so efficient and why it runs so well.
[SPEAKER_05]: It moves air through the system better than almost any other engine I've worked on.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's volumetric efficiency is really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the amount of air that it takes in and the amount of fuel that it needs to be able to, you know, consume all that air and and turn that into combustion is very efficient, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: There's not a lot of wasted energy there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: which allows us to turn more engine speed than other combinations, you know, so we have at least usually a thousand RPM's more engine speed.
[SPEAKER_05]: So any time we could fill that cylinder more right and burn more fuel right the engine if we could harness that power we're able to make it from point A to point B quicker, you know, it's just able to accelerate usually faster.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the engine itself is just more efficient, it's able to move air through the system even in its factory form better than almost
[SPEAKER_05]: all the other ones that I've been around, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: And do you think that that has a lot to do with like the Headflow?
[SPEAKER_04]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_04]: It seems like it's a me from the interviews I've done and just learning.
[SPEAKER_04]: It seems like the best engines out or ever seem to have great Headflow, like a case series, like you know, like an RB26 has a better Headflow than a 2J.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're not going to debate if it's better than it's a year or not, but it seems like Headflow is like the biggest thing that kind of makes an engine more efficient and Make more power.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we've been six 80s on stock head castings with no portwork at all.
[SPEAKER_05]: Truck heads.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's the smallest port that Ford ever made.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've been six 80s at 212 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_05]: unported, you know, so take that, you know, I mean, like it's, it moves air through the system better than any other engine, you know, that that we've dealt with.
[SPEAKER_05]: The valve train stable at higher rpm, so over 10,000 rpm, there's the valve train's extremely stable.
[SPEAKER_05]: cam shafts they they like cam shafts in them you know okay but that's you know 1200 horsepower less there's no real need for cam shafts you know you know obviously the big power stuff like you have to have that kind of stuff right you know our biggest downfall is our cubic inches you know it's still only 300 cubic inches you know we don't really put a lot of stroke to him
[SPEAKER_05]: But that becomes a problem, spooling turbos and kind of stuff like that, you know, getting enough shaft speed in the turbos early enough, you know, we've only got 300 inches, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then again, that's why the cylinder heads are so efficient because we only have 300 inches, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So when guys try to make a tall deck out of them, right, and make 360 or 380 or 400 inches out of some tall deck coyote, the intake runners get real long.
[SPEAKER_05]: The cylinder head gets real small, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's like taking an athlete and put a strong on his mouth, you know, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so he's not, not as nearly as good of an athlete as he once was, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so, um, because he's not conditioned for that, you know, somehow granted, you could kind of adopt the cylinder head to take advantage of that.
[SPEAKER_05]: But that's why the 300 inch deal is so good, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because the cylinder heads are so good, it's on a good short block.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that's not too large for the application.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the engine could stay and it's efficiency range for a very long time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why don't you need a cams up until 1200?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why are the cams good up until then?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's only like a turbo deal.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you're able to have cam, you know, stock camshafts and a turbo.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're able to move them with the variable camshafts.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's probably why you have such a large area of horsepower to make with the cams.
[SPEAKER_04]: The stock ones.
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely, yeah, because the VCT, because the VCT, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So we could roll the VCT in earlier and it's like it has more compression in the engine, it has a noise, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what these ghost cams are and all sorts of stuff, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So you can make stock cam sound like it has, you know, large cams in it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, maybe if you had, you know, limited induction system, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So a small turbo, a small blower, sure, cam shafts.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's some performance there.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it's not hundreds of horsepower or anything like that, you know, it's, you pick up 40 or 50, 60 horsepower, maybe, you know, right, you know, even in their factory form, it's a great engine, you know, I mean, yeah, it's 1200, yeah, no, no, no, to make over a thousand with these platforms, you, you can run it as is or what do you have to do to to make a thousand on, well, they become a little unreliable because of the rods and pistons and you might bend a rod, you know, but guys have done it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't recommend it because when it does break, it usually tears everything all up in the engine, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So at some point maybe 800, 7800 for a stock engine, it's a great stock engine at that horsepower level.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, keep the torque kind of managed at a low RPM, kind of get away through the torque curve a little bit and it'll live a long time.
[SPEAKER_05]: After that, you could do some rods and pistons, and that'll get you reliably to 1200 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like no problem.
[SPEAKER_05]: Guys have made way more than that.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just once again, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It might not be the smartest thing, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: And then really, we sleeve them, you know, at that point, and then it's endless.
[SPEAKER_04]: After 1200.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, after about 1200, we sleeve them.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's the same sleeve we use in a 1200 or a 3000 horsepower one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, really?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's no difference.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, as far as that's concerned, we don't do any welding to the deck of them.
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't put any inserts in them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Even the big horsepower ones.
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't do any of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's all, you know, water runs through the deck surface, just like a Normally factory blockwood.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're just leaving pistons rods and no machine main studs.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it means does it of course we do main studs and I'm I What are you upgrading those to?
[SPEAKER_05]: ARP, you know, it's ARP 2000 main stud on the big big power cars.
[SPEAKER_05]: We do a larger side bolt in them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we'll upgrade those.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's
[SPEAKER_04]: So once you basically build your engine, you build your 50, you pretty much are good up to 3,000 you said, depending on the turbo and head obviously packaged together.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think it's a really good 2500 horsepower engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think after that, the service interval start to get pretty short, you know, with the factory block.
[SPEAKER_05]: And at any time, like say 2800 or above, you know, it's kind of hit or miss, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You might make
[SPEAKER_04]: $1,500, not enough, man.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, dude, I think we made $3,400 or so to the tires, or pretty close to that.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, $3,270, or yeah, to the tires, we've made.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's wild.
[SPEAKER_05]: On a factory walk, sleeve, it's I mean, we put sleeves in it, but main studs and sleeves, and that's it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like there's nothing, you know, we put a receiver groove in it, you know, in an old ring wire in the head, a copper gasket,
[SPEAKER_05]: That combination will run 20 runs, 20 at 3200 horsepower, 20 runs, you know, is what we run it.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's if you're like drag racing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: 2000 on the street.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know about all that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, guys never, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So like everyone always wants 2000 horsepower street cars or 2500 horsepower, and we build them, and they'll make a dyno number, I think we have, you know, probably 15 or 20 cars that make over 24 or 500 horsepower, it's out of control.
[SPEAKER_05]: And these street cars, street cars, and they all turn them down, right, because it's somewhat useless, you know, real drive or yeah, I'll real or drive.
[SPEAKER_05]: Some of them trucks, you know, the F-150 stuff, we do a bunch of the F-150 trucks and they're fast, you know, they're, they're real fast, almost right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Those guys will get like,
[SPEAKER_05]: 70 runs out of that thing, you know, at 2500 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_05]: We just had one go 60 to 130, I don't know, I can't say how fast it went, but it's faster than any of the the Vipers.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you can't say how fast it went, because you don't, you don't know or yeah, I can't really say.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I can't even know what is though.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's, yeah, so the guys over in Texas over there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, he's been like, oh, they're running over 60 to 130's.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think velocity.
[SPEAKER_05]: Velocie Russell.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's who we build a lot of engines for.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was like a two.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to say low two is man.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's fast and he posted it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: He might have.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it's it's fast.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, never get in that truck.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's it's unbelievable how fast they are.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think they just have so much forward momentum with all will drive, you know Russell's one the cleat of shoot out like two out of three times.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think you run it up the other time.
[SPEAKER_05]: So man, those those trucks are really fast.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the weight, so the weight of those trucks, so with how much they weigh, I will actually they cut a lot of stuff out of those trucks, especially at that power, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: They do.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they're probably around 1,4,000 pounds, and you have 4,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,5,
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, it absolutely is making, you know, 24 or 500 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like there's no way around it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's got to be, you know, to kind of do that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And these guys aren't even on the billet, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because you haven't even either all factory cast blocks stuff, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, um, do you think that they can, because they're, they're obviously all the dry right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So, can they make more power and still put that down the street with all the drive?
[SPEAKER_05]: I believe they can.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Really?
[SPEAKER_05]: They tell me they can, so we're going to find out.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's common.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you mentioned that up to 1200 to stock cams are good.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you recommend after that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, we have some stuff that we're working on currently right now that we've tested and we've ran and it's ran really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we have our own grinds.
[SPEAKER_05]: What I can tell you is.
[SPEAKER_05]: All of the camshafts in the industry are very similar, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: There's not like one out in left field.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's way better than everybody else is.
[SPEAKER_05]: So like everybody's a really close.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the fine details that make the difference, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So it needs to be set of cams that have been ran before.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's going to work, not ran in an engine, but like that have been validated and ran in a combination that you're going to use right because we have some camps that we run in the big power cars.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they want to be ran out of a certain RPM window, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: They might be a little harder to spool, so they might need a little bit different.
[SPEAKER_05]: Starting line strategies, you know, to build the amount of starting line boost that we need, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: But that camshaft runs really, really good once we let go of the button, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So we have to deal with those characteristics.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that set of cams might not be for everybody.
[SPEAKER_05]: right in the words.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then we got another set that's a little bit smaller that kind of is a general purpose cam.
[SPEAKER_05]: It works with almost all combinations.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's able to pull a set of 80 millimeter turbos or 76 or even a single 98, you know, something, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So it it works with all of them.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we only have really two options that we have as far as cam shafts are concerned.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's a testament, you know, of how well obviously the whole platform
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, there's not that much advantage from all of these camshafts, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: What are you guys doing that as far as duration on the, on the, on the coyote platform as far as how much?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, on the cam.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, 250, 240s, you know, uh, somewhere right around there, you know, um, and as far as lifts concerned, they're all usually under 600,000 lifts.
[SPEAKER_04]: What, you know, what is that in like millimetres?
[SPEAKER_04]: I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what I think about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a millimetre thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what that is.
[SPEAKER_05]: We all have time with the metric system.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I'm not too sure how big it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: 13 millimetres is what it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so like 11 and 11 and a half is like high lift pretty much on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_05]: 13 and a half, 14 and it's right in there.
[SPEAKER_05]: 20, 13 and 14.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now you mentioned that you still run VCT or you don't?
[SPEAKER_05]: We do, yeah, I mean, we currently run VCT on the intake side.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so we're able to advance the camshaft to create more cylinder pressure.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's able to spool the turbos a little bit easier, you know, stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Makes a little bit more power earlier in the RPM range.
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't use it long, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not like once we let go of the button, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't really use it much, but essentially just rolls back.
[SPEAKER_05]: to our intake center line, which is like if we fix the camshafts and we've locked them out that's where it rolls back to that position.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so we only really use it for starting line strategy, you know, stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: As far as the race cars are concerned.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a little bit method that because I have a 76 on my car and in spools a little bit late, so I think it's like 5500 RPM and the only way to get a little bit more spool or sooner is to advance the intake cam mechanically sure because there's no
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but that's going to take some performance away or some RPM capability, right, and move that down a little bit, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So like for us able to use the variable cam time, we're able to advance that thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it really sounds like a real engine when we do that, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, yeah, it doesn't sound like a dump truck.
[SPEAKER_05]: And does a good burn out, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: The tune-up stays clean, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: The plug stay clean, it's able to get on the converter a little bit better because it's making 30 more foot pounds of torque or whatever the case may be.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that helps, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: When it comes to the VCT, the oiling is not an issue at high horsepower at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't affect any of that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, we don't have that problem, you know, some people might, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: But we don't have that problem, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So we run probably more spring rate than most with the VCT and we have no issues with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: What I could tell you is you have to have good oil, good quality oil, meaning that oil that's going into the engine needs to be not aerated.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, right, you know, so you got to have a good dry something system.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's pulling all the air in the oil out of it and it's putting it to a good tank and it's allowing the air to separate from the oil and the oil that you're putting, you know,
[SPEAKER_05]: yeah at some point we go strictly to a dry something yeah we'll run all the way six stages so we pull four out of the pan one of the turbos and then obviously one pumps it back into the tank and then in the engine yeah so the oil yeah at some point to run variable cam timing under that spring rate
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, at that engine speed and whatnot, you know, like you got to have a dry something system on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, you got to have good oil, you know, and what it, you know, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it can't be aerated because it'll want to move around and everything else.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you got to have a good pump right good pan, good tank, you know, and it's got to sit in that tank long enough.
[SPEAKER_05]: for the air to separate away from the oil, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So if it's still running through so fast, it doesn't have enough time to separate itself.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's got to be enough levels.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, you got to have a good system.
[SPEAKER_04]: At 1500, roughly, you're on that area is when you need a dry sun because oil starts to aerate, of course, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: What about the coyotes?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, we run them up to about 22 or 2400 horsepower, anything without?
[SPEAKER_05]: Passed, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: We still run an internal.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, oil pump.
[SPEAKER_05]: We do put oil pump gears in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's why we have this oil pump tested right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So we put these gears in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: We run it.
[SPEAKER_05]: We validate the pump's good.
[SPEAKER_05]: We do go to larger capacity pans.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: What you have happen on the internal wet some stuff is it pumps all the oil to the heads.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we've made multiple different orifice restrictors.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we limit the amount of oil that gets to the head.
[SPEAKER_05]: It still has enough oil to supply the cam journals, the lifters, the file, or stuff like that, but not an excessive amount of oil that it's not able to run back to the pan, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So we do oil restrictors in the heads, that are probably a little different or a fist and some,
[SPEAKER_05]: and then we put a larger capacity pan, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And the cars, what you'll see happen is when the cars leave the starting line and they're so fast, the oil washes up the pan a little bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: We have all these trap doors and windage trays and all this stuff in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But the reality is you're running 11 or 12 courts at oil.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to go somewhere, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to make it right and go up the back.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it a beer, though?
[SPEAKER_05]: It is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so you have a little bit of advantage there already.
[SPEAKER_05]: we do yeah we've got a good area in the back right we've got all this stuff to kind of hold to all there but when the cars get so fast you'll see a dip in a little pressure and then it starts to come back and you know that's part of what's going on right now no with the you know okay at the at the 2200 horsepower range 24 right and then at at some point you're like hey we're making so much power we can't have that dip right because it'll tear a bearing up or
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, we'll go right to a dry some system, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: So like there's almost a hard line in the sand, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, almost all the plough or packages that we've created.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's, you don't want to cross that line.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's pretty similar.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're saying all this stuff and I, this is the same thing with the RBs.
[SPEAKER_04]: We do our oil restrictor on the block though.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm not going for one of the ports because all the oil pulls up in the head.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we prevented from doing that.
[SPEAKER_04]: We also had baffles and the valve covers too.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we have extensions because the oil pump flows a lot higher or a more oil volume volume Right, so you have to have the extension there to have more oil in there exactly the same pretty But the power that you guys are doing it at is different so engines are engines.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just air pumps and you gotta oil them to keep them alive Right, you know, but they're all air pumps.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, some are better than others, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So now, what about the limitations of the cast on the, on the, uh, coyotes?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, it's that hard line in the sand thing, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: On Brett's car, you know, at 3200 horsepower, it's not a great engine in a cast form, because you don't know when it's going to break.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: And there's a lot of liability there.
[SPEAKER_05]: it's dangerous right you know stuff like that the last thing we want to do is hurt someone you know um so i would say the factory coyote predator cast block you know uh is probably a good twenty five hundred horsepower engine you know you could you could invest you could buy it you could invest in that and say okay you know this thing's gonna last me a good long while I'll get a good service life out of it and um
[SPEAKER_05]: It's gonna be all right, you know, but but after that things get a little tricky, you know, the service interval goes down after $3,000 horsepower It's anybody's guess, you know, I mean a guy could kill it right away.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, so Yeah, I think that would be my limitations like yeah, I want to try to go over about 2800, you know
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's 1200 horsepower a coyote like you're good You know how you're just chilling if it's built right of course.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean I've got guys that make 16 to 1700 to the tires that You know if they've had their stuff out for five these six years just chill.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've not even you know seeing it back You know and they drive it almost you know two three times a week
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, a lot of these daily, by any chance, some of them are, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is wild.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now, with the predator, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Those come in the GTF, I find this, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_04]: OK.
[SPEAKER_04]: So are those more expensive to take it your hands on?
[SPEAKER_05]: Or, yeah, the blockster, you know, another $1200 more compared to a Gen 3 block, say, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: But a Gen 3 block, we've made 23, 2400 horsepower with a Gen 3 block, you know, it's $1,000 block.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so like, it's a killer value.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's put it that way, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: So now, why do you guys run the 5-2 as opposed to the 5-0?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is the biggest difference?
[SPEAKER_04]: Aside from the cast, of course, you guys have already experimented with that, and you know that it makes more on the cast, but what other reasons are there for running the 5-2?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, the 5-0.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, we don't actually run 5.2 liters, we still run a 5-liter, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's the heads you take from the predator.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, the block and the heads we take from the predator, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: The predator block is a 3,700 bore from the factory.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, three inches, 700,000 says the bore.
[SPEAKER_05]: The early generation five liter coyotes are 3, 6, 30.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, we take those predator blocks and we sleeve them.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we leave them at that 3, 6, 30 bore.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because there's more material in the sleeve.
[SPEAKER_05]: The sleeve is extremely, you know, strong at that thickness compared to, you know, the 3,700 board.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're only able to bore so much parent material out of the block, you know, so like to make that sleeve any thicker, we're going to get into the water jackets, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's the last thing we want to do, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we can't go too big, and obviously we don't want to, you know, make the sleeve too thin.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we sleeve them back down.
[SPEAKER_05]: Once that board gets over in a factory block, three, six, 50 are crankcase pressure numbers start to increase, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And essentially what that's saying is, you know, you don't have enough material there to hold that combustion anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so what happens is the block and the sleeves themselves start to balloon, right, through the middle, they barrel shape, because there's no support in the middle.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're supporting the top from the deck and the bottom from the mains.
[SPEAKER_05]: But in the middle there's only water, you know, so we run water under pressure, right, to help that, but it's still kind of barrels, you know, so
[SPEAKER_05]: That gives you an example of why you shouldn't bore the blocks, when you have a block sleeve, you shouldn't go straight to a large bore on it because you have no service life left, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Where ours, you could go from 3, 6, 30, 40, 50, 60, 80, you could service that block six times.
[SPEAKER_05]: It could be freshened up six times before it's out of it service intervals and these new sleeves or a new block.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it's a lot stronger like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, what the package is, it's pretty much the only blocks that you use for it, or let's say if somebody wanted to just build a 50, like, is that something you guys do too?
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: We do all gen 1, 2, 3s.
[SPEAKER_05]: Any generation coyote block we use.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just for the high, high horsepower stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: We prefer to use that predator block, because it's the right block to use.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what about the cylinder heads?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, the cylinder heads, as the generation in the years went on, they got better, so the Gen 3 heads are a direct injection head.
[SPEAKER_05]: They move the best air as far as the standard GTs or like a truck head or like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Those are really good heads, and then you go to a voodoo or a GT500 head predator, and those are the same cylinder heads.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a dual pattern.
[SPEAKER_05]: So none of it matters.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the same the same head.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they move the same amount of air They've got the same parts and I'm same CNC program from the factory So all those heads are already CNC ported from the factory.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so the only difference between those and the stock form is just the flat plane crank Of course on the 350 on the three-fold.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's a flat plane prepared to across
[SPEAKER_04]: yep okay because under my assumption it was just like oh well if five two it already has it's already boosted so like it should be a stronger material or it should be well made for that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure well the block's got better so the voodoo block was a 12mm short head stud the predator is a 12mm longer head stud the stud goes down towards the mains that's how you want them to be
[SPEAKER_05]: So the deck got a little bit more closed in, I showed you that a little bit, the water holes got a little smaller and they got a little more support throughout the deck.
[SPEAKER_05]: One of the problems with the voodoo's is where the head bolt location ends at.
[SPEAKER_05]: You've got these nox sensor pads on the valley and it's right in line with those.
[SPEAKER_05]: So his often I mean we've seen it four or five times where those blocks crack you know in that area So out of all the blocks the voodoo block is probably in the block that we've seen crack the most Wow, you know, yeah, it's crazy as it is so when it comes to the blocks cracking Let's say if you have high coolant temps a little bit longer or higher higher than normal What would that directly affect in terms of like the life of a block?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, we crack our blocks through movement more than through a thermal expansion problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the cooling system on the factory forge is really good.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: The mechanical pump moves good and water through it.
[SPEAKER_05]: We could run them at 200 degrees and they're okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we're not like overheating them as far as that's concerned.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hello, some guys do you know these things are getting put like a sudden like everyone makes over 15 hundred horse parts about right so then they get put in a street car and then next to you know the guy puts a picture up and he's wheeling it You know two or three hundred foot right so the things all twisted up and
[SPEAKER_05]: The car has no, you know, it's just got stock motor mounts or you have fixed motor mounts right in the center of the block.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, at some point motor plates become a thing, you know, block twisting, um, in our instances, sometimes it's ballooning the cylinders because we're making some cylinder pressure or we're trying to, you know, shove the mains, you know, like over 3,000 horsepower, you're literally trying to just shove the mains out of the block.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so the cranks trying to come straight out the bottom, and when we do crack those, we take them apart and all the fasteners come out and the block just kind of falls apart.
[SPEAKER_05]: It didn't spin any bearings, it didn't tear any cranks up, it didn't do anything.
[SPEAKER_05]: It just, it's just giving it up, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just falling apart, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you're just pushing on it too hard, is what happens, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You're trying to move that part too much.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the material that the block is made out of can't withstand that.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not elastic enough, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's where you get these cracks from or these broken blocks.
[SPEAKER_05]: If it was cast iron, then you could maybe talk about this thermal expansion and overheating it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because cast iron is not nearly as good of a conductor, you know, you can't get rid of the heat as well, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's got a deal and manage with that heat.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's maybe when that becomes a problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: How much boost do you guys running into these engines?
[SPEAKER_04]: I would assume it's not as high because the head flows pretty well.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sixty two pounds or so, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: you know and what are you making at 62 power wise 32 hundred horsepower so damn that's actually really that's impressive yeah yeah so that's that's crazy yeah I think John Lund's car you know makes probably 26 or 700 horsepower and we're at 57 pounds of boost with his 58 pounds you know so that's with a 6 or 80 transmission
[SPEAKER_05]: That is, you know, factory transmission, yeah, they've been six, 50s with it, right, of 420s, you know, heavy too, you know, real heavy.
[SPEAKER_04]: So with the drag racing stuff, like launching, do you see at high horsepower levels and talking about, or it's affecting, maybe the crank or anything like that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, obviously the harder we run these things, the more movement we see, right, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so when we take these engines apart, you know, our job is to look at them and to see what they look like, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: make sure the engine was broken properly, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: We could see that and determine if that was done.
[SPEAKER_05]: We could see the wear, you know, that is on the parts themselves, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So you pull a piston out, it's got a wear mark on it, or a bearing has a wear mark on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: What does that tell you?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's like a crime investigation.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's exactly that.
[SPEAKER_05]: So
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, and then based off of what we see, we make adjustments to that, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So do we need a different part?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's stronger.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do we need more clearance because this is deflecting so much now?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you really got to pay attention to the parts that are coming out.
[SPEAKER_05]: That tells you everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, obviously the tuner and the driver, they always tell you something, but the parts never lie.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like, they're always honest with you, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So,
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, if you take it apart and you saw that the surface on the cylinder wall was laid down and it's real shiny, you know, well, they might not have broke the engine incorrectly, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they didn't do a good job at seeding the rings in, right, maybe they had it overfueled and we could determine that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, when we were running out of stock crankshafts and we were running, um, 2500 horsepower with a stock crankshaft, the crankshaft flexing and moving so much that we were starting to tear a couple bearings up, you know, and, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: before we actually spun bearings and destroyed stuff, you know, we saw what it was trying to tell us to do.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we would just open up the clearance in the three center mains.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now the crank flex, but it doesn't touch the bearings down, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's just an example of one of the things, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: But every single spot on that engine or every single part tells you a story.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, look at it, pay attention.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now, there's probably people who are taking their engines, of course, so they're local machine shop and so on, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And you guys seem to have your procedure locked down.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very legit, everything's clean, everything's legit.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys have everything marked down, written down.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you get like a whole sheet.
[SPEAKER_04]: You show me the whole report and the last stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So I would assume that most machine shops are following the same procedures.
[SPEAKER_04]: But there may be some that don't have different methods.
[SPEAKER_04]: Where would you think that most machine shops
[SPEAKER_05]: really has to do with what the machine shops take on right and and I and I say that like at some point I took everything that came in the door yeah so it could have been a big block Chevy offshore race boat could have been a nine fifty nine mu c could have been an old pro line you know hammy yeah or forty one x right and um
[SPEAKER_05]: You can't get the parts for it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You're not an expert in any one thing, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that becomes a thing when you go to a shop, and it might just be a general machine shop, and you're wanting them to work on your special import engine, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: There's two J or RB, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not an RB guy, so don't.
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't keep a learned.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I have not had very good success with the RBs.
[SPEAKER_05]: I probably am not your RB guy, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so don't bring me your RB, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Cause I'm not the expert in that, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I haven't devoted my time and attention to that, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: Platform.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that's where a lot of machine shops fall short is that they're not trying to perfect their craft with a particular package, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And another thing,
[SPEAKER_05]: It's most machine shops.
[SPEAKER_05]: One guy just bounces around and runs around, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Everybody's able to do kind of anything, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And they just, hey, here's your task for the day or this or that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Where you look at our shop, all of our guys have their own area.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is the crankshaft guys area, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: This adanist runs all the crankshafts, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Miles runs the CNC, AJ, and in the assembly room.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, they're in here with Zach.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so my cylinder head guys, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So they become perfectionist in their trade, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: They know when something doesn't look right.
[SPEAKER_05]: They could feel it for that matter, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: They could hear when their machines not run incorrectly.
[SPEAKER_05]: you know, we don't have any stereos or speakers out in the shop.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nobody's walking around with headphones on, you know, like you got to listen to the equipment run, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: So when you're working in a particular task and area, you're able to find any failures because you know it, you're prospered in it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that's the difference between us and most other engine shops,
[SPEAKER_05]: you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: So what what is some some red flags because honestly people really probably don't even know that there's issues happening at their machine shop until it's like a year later when their engines still have the machine shop and they had an expectation of like three months, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So what is some red flags to look out for?
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess I don't even know if you when you drop your engine off, if you can even inspect everything because most of the time you're not even in the shop, you're like just dropping it off here, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think a couple things, expectations, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Lay it all out on the line.
[SPEAKER_05]: What are you looking for?
[SPEAKER_05]: What are you looking to get done?
[SPEAKER_05]: What are your expectations and what are your goals?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So like when someone comes to us, we ask them those things.
[SPEAKER_05]: What are you doing with this car?
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you don't need this stage four package, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, yeah, you might have the money, you might want to buy it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because Brett's got it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I get it all the time.
[SPEAKER_05]: I want what Brett has.
[SPEAKER_05]: You don't want any part of what Brett has.
[SPEAKER_05]: you know so you know so so figure out those expectations you know what I mean like what do you really want out of this you know are you gonna try to take the life to dinner you're gonna do this right like how much do you really need right so so get those out on the lines and then if the shops wanted you know this big huge deposit and everything else right up front you know uh
[SPEAKER_05]: That's always sometimes a red flag to me too.
[SPEAKER_05]: We very rarely take on deposits, you know, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that you see that happen a lot, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Guys give deposits, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And then their expectations aren't met, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And the time frame gets longer.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then they ask for an update, maybe they don't have all the parts, or they don't have this, and it just gets drawn out.
[SPEAKER_05]: These are things that I've had happen in our business early on, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: They've moved away from, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, that I've seen, and I've done myself, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, we've gotten away from all that, and I think those are some of the things that are the red flags, you know, that come up, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: And the next thing you know, the end user, you know, is pissed off of the machine shop, or the engine shop,
[SPEAKER_05]: They've got their money.
[SPEAKER_05]: They don't got an engine, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And then they push on the guy and then the guy rushes and gets it done and it's not the kind of work that you're looking for.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, that's another problem, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think when you go to an engine shop, lay out your expectations on what you're looking for.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, this is my time frame.
[SPEAKER_05]: Are you able to or not do it?
[SPEAKER_05]: have faith in that engine shop that you're going to, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It should already be a place that you have faith in and that you know is able to do what, you know, you're looking to get done and it's in their wheelhouse.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, don't bring a big nitrous engine to the import guy, you know, and vice versa, right, you know, so, but yeah, I think those are some of the hurdles that, you know, you got to look out for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, if you have all the parts, right, how long should it take to build an engine from actually starting the build process?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, we have like a 12 week lead, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So like that's ours.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you come in the door, it's 12 weeks usually before it's in your hands.
[SPEAKER_05]: By that time you have an engine, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: As far as the physical labor and on a time that engine is getting touched while it's here at our shop is 40 to 80 hours based on the engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So these V10s, they take a lot longer.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's four days to assemble one, three days, so four days to get one of those done,
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, a coyote isn't quite as long, you know, it's a little bit easier to get through.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, like a coyote going through the shop, you'll probably have 40 to 50 hours in, you know, on a standard build, you know, we have.
[SPEAKER_05]: four to five hours in just deeper work on a coyote long block from deburying the block from deburying the main caps from deburying the pistons the cylinder head castings like
[SPEAKER_05]: We've got that much time just need to be burning it, you know, where, you know, maybe another shop doesn't defer the block at all, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, that's just some of the differences, you know, we talked about hone in the sleeve or hone in the blocks prior to putting the sleeves in it, you know, so we get as much heat transfer, you know, that's hours, you know, that most guys that do coyote stuff don't do, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you're
[SPEAKER_05]: I could write off the top of my head.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's 15 hours that we do that most other coyote guys probably don't in each coyote engine from start to finish if it's a long block.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So what's that time, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now do you guys deal with customers directly?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like a customer can walk in here and get their engine built or do you have to go through like, I know some shops are like where you can only deal with them through another company that's a performance shop or something like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, no, you could come direct to us.
[SPEAKER_05]: We prefer that on the bigger builds, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because we want to know exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a little more detail oriented.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: We want to make sure that you're getting exactly what you need.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, we do have obviously the whole sailors, like real street velocity, FM, and those guys down south.
[SPEAKER_05]: And there's a few other guys.
[SPEAKER_05]: But they move those short blocks that usually
[SPEAKER_05]: You know blows an engine up or something.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's not a six month wait, you know, they could get something, you know, going.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, you could kind of just come either way, you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now how much does it cost to to build let's say a 1200 horsepower coyote or above?
[SPEAKER_05]: Short block wise, you know, if you just wanted to do a 12 to 1500 horsepower, you know, street Mustang deal, you just need a short block that are going to be 125 to if you got a GT 500, you know, full max average deal 15, you know, five.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's for a short block.
[SPEAKER_05]: And long block, depending on if you have castings or not, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it goes up.
[SPEAKER_05]: pretty quickly if you don't have the castings.
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you have castings, you know, you could get 20s, you know, 18 up to, you know, 32 or 38,000 depending on the package, you know, so.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that'll get you up to 1200 plus.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, of course.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, if a guy comes in with, you know, 2012 or 13 Mustang and wanted 12 or 13, 1400 horsepower, you
[SPEAKER_05]: Rod's pistons rings bearings, main studs, sleeves, o-ringed, you know, the cylinder heads get springs, valve springs, valve jobbed.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, obviously all the cams get checked for straightness and size and fit in there.
[SPEAKER_05]: We put valves and almost all of them, um, um, you know, the full 13,000 miles.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's just for the long block pretty much.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's for like, hey, I have everything.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just need you to supply a short block and, you know, some valve springs and stuff like that in the heads, you know, and that'll make 12 to 1500 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, when you get over, you know, if you don't have a cylinder head casting, there's foreground, you know, or something, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, things start adding up, hey, I need, uh, I want to make over 1,500.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, now you need a different oil system, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like, so, um, the hard line in the sand once again, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you really got to know what you want, and then we could kind of perfect that from there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now, how much is it cost to build a six second cavity?
[SPEAKER_05]: the whole car i mean who knows man i mean you know some guys you know there's some budget ones i mean uh
[SPEAKER_05]: There's some budget cars that probably have 80, 90, a hundred grand in the car, you know that could go sixes, you know, and then there's guys that have 250 or 300 grand in the car, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's a, there's a big window, six, 80s and slower.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's, that's fast.
[SPEAKER_05]: Don't get me wrong, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: But that's really fast.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's somewhat obtainable for quite a few guys, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Anything faster than that, and the price starts to go up very quickly in the effort and the service intervals go down drastically at that point.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now you mentioned some people call up and say, hey, I want exactly what Brett has, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you wanted something close to that, or somebody said, hey, I just want to build something close to what he has, just a long block alone.
[SPEAKER_04]: What would that cause you think?
[SPEAKER_05]: His with the dry soap billet block right now is a 52 to 58 based on a couple little options.
[SPEAKER_05]: 58,000, 58, 52 to 58,000, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: that's to me that's like that's a great damn I spent close to I spent around that for mine yeah I'm making no 3500 or it's power dude it's the most bang for the buck I mean it's yeah I kid you not man it's the most bang for the buck you know the coyote platform by far is the most bang for the buck
[SPEAKER_04]: But then there's also the other side of things.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a suspension, there's ECU, all that.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's the 50,000 is just a small portion of just one step along the way.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's pretty impressive that you can just spend that and you can have an engine capable of making that kind of power.
[SPEAKER_04]: And is that billet or is that cast?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, that'd be a billet block, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: OK. Yeah, I think somewhere right around there.
[SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is crazy.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it might be time to come to the Messic side pretty soon.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're turning a lot of people over.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's pretty.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's pretty.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I want to I wanted to ask you about there's it's not a myth.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if it's a myth, but a common.
[SPEAKER_04]: a common thing that people say is that if you have a high displacement engine, you can't really rev it that high, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, these engines seem to serve pretty high, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, honestly, for what they are, they rev higher than anything else, I think, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, 10,000, 500 RPM.
[SPEAKER_04]: In saying, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, the displacement, I'm sure there's plenty of engines that have much higher displacement than these,
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's pretty common that people know that, like look, you can't really rev, or you shouldn't really rev a high-displaced engine So it's certain RPM.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, is that true?
[SPEAKER_04]: I know you mentioned in the previous podcast that, you know, you can pretty much make any engine do what you wanted to do If you wanted to rev to 10,000, you can make it rev to 10,000.
[SPEAKER_04]: How long it's going to last?
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: But is that just a myth or is that something that, you know, is true?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I mean, it's, it's, I think it's true, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And a good example of that would be a, any cherry pro stock engine, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's 500 cubic inches naturally aspirated.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, it's 200 cubic inches more than these, and it turns the same engine speed as these.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's probably one of the most efficient engines in the world, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's able to move air through the system, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So what happens is when you increase cubic inches, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You have to fill that cylinder, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: This goes back to the athlete, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so now you have to have enough lung capacity.
[SPEAKER_05]: You have to have enough cylinder head capacity, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Port volume, port air speed, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: To fill that cylinder, if you have that,
[SPEAKER_05]: It's no big deal, right, volumetric efficiencies there, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just where that turns the corner at, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So, when you go up in cubic inches, you have to work on the induction system even more.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's just what it boils down to, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's able to fill that cylinder.
[SPEAKER_05]: And if you do that, it could be just as good, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, that's a fine example of it, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So like anybody that says otherwise is probably wrong.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now, when about the LS stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I know obviously that's not really your thing, but I'm sure you've worked on the LS as before, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, with the push rod, as opposed to like a dual overhead cam system you have here, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't that be the biggest limiting factor to the RPM and being able to rev higher?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, sure, you have deflection from a push rod, so as, you know, if the push rod is not perfectly straight and it's at an angle, then you have deflection, the push rod is a pole volt, also, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so, you know, you have all of these losses through that kind of valve train and through a follower system like what ours is where it's got, people call them rockers, but they're followers, it follows the camelub.
[SPEAKER_05]: look at the mass in that.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a quarter of what a push rod and a fixed rocker would have, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So just in general, the overhead chem is a lot more efficient, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: The valve normally sees the full valve lift, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So whatever you grind the chem shaft to, right, if you didn't mess the geometry up in the head, which a lot of guys do do, I
[SPEAKER_05]: with the cutaries, but if you didn't mess it up, then it sees pretty much the theoretical valve lift, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So it runs good, where the push on stuff's not usually that way, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Rarely will you have that in order to get that, you have to have a really good valve train system, you know, one piece stands, you know, shaft system rockers,
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, all this and that.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's this high-end stuff that you have to buy after market stuff to make that work, you know, another thing with the LS stuff is if you took that engine and you made it 330 or 450 inches, your RPM capabilities go up, you know, and then.
[SPEAKER_05]: now you want to make it a 427.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you don't have enough cylinder head for it, but if you if you adapted to that 427 inches ago, okay, I need this port volume.
[SPEAKER_05]: So instead of a 200cc port, I need 220cc port, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, normally when you go to that cylinder head, now the port's going to be taller.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to be raised.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not going to be a real low port.
[SPEAKER_05]: The push rod where the push rod goes next to the port doesn't intrude into the port.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know the port shifted over now using an offset, you know, rocker and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you've got some point with a domestic push rod style engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, once again, you have to overcome the hurdles to be able to run more cubic inches efficiently at a higher engine speed.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's all about filling the cylinder.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what it all comes down to.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now you did the engine master's recently, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Were you built an engine that was capable of up 14, I think it was 14 hundred horsepower?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, that's what we wound up making was a 14, 19, I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: With it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So essentially that was.
[SPEAKER_05]: an L.T.
[SPEAKER_05]: L. M. built an L. T. Yeah, 5.3 liter verse, a gen 3 Ford coyote, which was our standard short block that we build.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, anybody could get it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, our auto media came to us wanting to do that deal.
[SPEAKER_05]: And.
[SPEAKER_05]: We were supposed to put the engines together, run a single 76 millimeter turbo, ultra street turbo, and the HPT, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: HPT, those guys were great to work with, which was supposed to dino it at West Tech, and then the engines were going into C10s, okay?
[SPEAKER_05]: Which maybe you saw that PRI show, the white C10, 70, two C10 with the coyote.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, power auto media booth.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll show you some pictures of it, but yeah, it's obviously.
[SPEAKER_04]: I saw one see 10.
[SPEAKER_05]: 10 white and with 10 accents.
[SPEAKER_05]: I walk by a beautiful truck.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, Eric did such an amazing job at putting the engine in the truck, you know, and putting a forward in a in a Chevy.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of people off, but um,
[SPEAKER_05]: And then they had to do a hundred mile cruise, you know, so it's like a drag and drive.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I think the best of three passes and whoever got the best average, you know, wins that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not released yet, but you're going to want to watch it for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not out yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not, but it's coming.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think there's one more.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the engine dyno stuff, that started, those guys ran theirs prior to ours.
[SPEAKER_05]: We were the second day, we got it all running that turbo was a T4 flange.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was originally, I think, going to be an ultra-sweet turbo, and then we wound up with that turbo, which is a little smaller than what LME built their engine for and the same thing with us, you know, we were expecting to have a little bit more engine speed.
[SPEAKER_05]: than what we were able to use.
[SPEAKER_05]: Ultimately, we started making some dyno poles with that thing, and we were having some problems with the dyno itself trying to hold the engine at certain engine speeds, but
[SPEAKER_05]: what you see with it is is it was just pissed off when we're trying to run a normal curve with say it's 7500 RPMs.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and we just had too much back pressure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Our back pressure number, we were at 92 or 93 pounds of Brock pressure.
[SPEAKER_05]: We only had 28 pounds of boost.
[SPEAKER_05]: So once the back pressure, your pressure ratio change, it was over 3 to 1.
[SPEAKER_05]: you know anytime you know we're in overlap you know it's just running back up the intake track deluding the engine so how we combat that and got around it to get the win was we turned less engine speed we didn't have to fill the cylinders as much as
[SPEAKER_05]: 7,500 pms, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So let's try to turn it at 5,500 rpms.
[SPEAKER_05]: And so it took quite a bit of runs to get the dyno to be able to hold that engine and that torque at that engine speed, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So after we got that figured out we started moving in the right direction because we got back in the efficiency range of the turbo Yeah We just ran the turbo to all it had you know the turbo to only make 1,400 and some change So like we put a bigger turbo on it makes it makes more right so the engine was able to probably make 17 or 1800 horsepower pretty easily We just made as much as the turbo would make
[SPEAKER_05]: you guys both had to run the same identical even the hot side and everything uh... we had a t-four flange they had a v-band uh... clamp on it but it was it wasn't divided right no was up uh... no i don't think it was a divided turbo no on your own yours yeah mine was not no okay and is there any difference between the uh... i think they might have had a little bit more area uh... okay so you know
[SPEAKER_05]: going back we probably would have done that you know exhaust side you know because it has a little more area yeah um but what you mentioned it was you know obviously the back pressure so i mean there's a hot side probably only the directly affects that no it does yeah usually so uh usually that cam shaft sometimes a little bit you know so we tried to mechanically move the cams a little bit and we couldn't get away from it enough so it just
[SPEAKER_05]: you know, we had what we had, you know, um, but yeah, we got to dump so it's good.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, um, did the L. S. and press you?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, those guys built a good engine.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, yeah, you know, best of the best of both platforms pretty much.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, and they put a lot of effort into trying to, um, not only beat us, but, you know, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: run really good with a lot of engine speed and both engines didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: We had a normal dyno curve.
[SPEAKER_05]: We had like a 14 or 1500 RPM dyno curve, you know, that we pulled it.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's was real small.
[SPEAKER_05]: They had like a 200 RPM window that they were just trying to or 300 RPM window.
[SPEAKER_05]: They were just trying to get a number.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that they were running into the same struggles that I ran into, you know, on the dyno.
[SPEAKER_05]: We just stuck with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know,
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't take a lunch that day.
[SPEAKER_05]: None of the guys that worked at West Tech took a lunch.
[SPEAKER_05]: Man, I ran them hard that day, but it took 40 runs, you know, but we were able to get it done.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that's what was pretty controversial.
[SPEAKER_04]: Was the amount of runs you guys had compared to what they had.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then, I mean, you guys had issues, of course.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, they did, too, you know, we just worked through.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, instead of just getting rid of it, you know, like, instead of not worrying about that, you know, we just worked through those problems.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that took quite a few pulls, you know, to get that done.
[SPEAKER_05]: The dyno didn't want to hold it out of certain,
[SPEAKER_05]: engine speed.
[SPEAKER_05]: I had a Tommy, which I had not used prior Tommy Tune the engine for us.
[SPEAKER_05]: That was on holly.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not a holly guy, but Pete Harold was going to tune it.
[SPEAKER_05]: that Friday prior to showing up, I showed up in California Monday.
[SPEAKER_05]: Pete, he didn't have the little star on his driver's license, I guess.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so he wasn't able to fly.
[SPEAKER_05]: So like, dude, I showed up Monday with no tuner, you know, and then Tommy from California, local guy out there, which tunes a lot of holly stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was great for us.
[SPEAKER_05]: and did a fantastic job.
[SPEAKER_05]: So thankful that, you know, he was able to help us out with that.
[SPEAKER_05]: But, um, yeah, so, you know, like, it was just like a bunch of guys we threw together to try to get it done.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so for one, we had to kind of gel, you know, and get kind of how we all work together.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: And at the end of it, I went back to just reading spark plugs, you know, and you started picking up power, because once again, the engines don't lie, you know, they always show you what's going on.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the spark plugs, the last thing that that shows you, right, that's like what's going on in the engine, how much air and fuel is going through that engine, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: how much ignition timing is on that strap, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So this engine might be able to run more than that engine, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, who knows that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Nobody knows that unless you look, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So anyways, we just went back to reading plug as towards the end, we started picking up what's your power, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now, if you guys were able to pick the, whatever turn where you guys wanted, or let's say if it was larger turnable, do you think the outcome would have been the same?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, without a doubt.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think we would have shined even more for sure because obviously because the cavity is still obviously king for the most full.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's more efficient engine than there's there's was close.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, don't get me wrong.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's was a great engine, you know, I just think if we were able to turn more engine speed like we had planned, then I think you would have seen our shine more, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: both engines were very comparable at the engine speed that we were running at.
[SPEAKER_05]: They could have made 1,419 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's no doubt in my mind, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, how long there's what have lasted?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know that, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure it would have been just fine, you know, but we made 40 runs out of ours.
[SPEAKER_05]: I kind of knew how much power they made.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't know the number by no means, but I could read the room.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I'm here with these guys all day, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like, you could tell when it wasn't going right, like everybody's head was down a little bit and then like, as we started picking up power, you could tell the mood and the room changed, you know, like they were getting more excited.
[SPEAKER_05]: And once we got over 1400, like,
[SPEAKER_05]: I could, like everybody was, you know, like, I saw you were pretty excited.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I was like, I knew we got it at that point.
[SPEAKER_05]: We had to have, right, because you could just, it's like when someone makes a catch in a field goal or something like, thank dude, when that thing turns, you could see it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, I kind of had an idea that that was enough, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: And then the next poll we made 12 more horsepower, so we made like 14, 19, I think we could have made another, probably could have made 14, 40 or 50.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, but like at that point, why, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, 1,400 is no slouch for sure in any car I think, honestly, nowadays, between both of them, whether L.S.
[SPEAKER_04]: is in any chassis, I feel like that's a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, that's more than that, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you do a bunch of other platforms that you also build here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do the V10 for the HeraldCon?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_04]: We used to do the V10 for the Vipers.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we did some stuff for Calvo early on, like a 1,300 x package, and then we did some of the big power stuff, you know, but broken friends with Calvo, he does them all now, but yeah, it was a good engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was pretty cool engine.
[SPEAKER_04]: So is there any similarities between the two?
[SPEAKER_04]: Not all.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, completely different.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah, yeah, just because it's a V-10 doesn't mean it's the same.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, nine-day difference.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the technology in one is light years ahead of the other one.
[SPEAKER_05]: The Viper is just a big dumb engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: compared to the, you know, audience and for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: How do these probably for sure more advanced, but a lot of the older stuff, like I said earlier, like they're not coming out with too many new engines, a lot of the stuff we already have is really good.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm sure the fibers are making big power, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: What would be one of the biggest things that makes them make the power that they make?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I mean, the Viper, it's got a lot of filling, cylinder filling capacity, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's a lot of cubic inches, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So they make a ton of torque.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you'll see a Viper make another 800 foot pounds of torque more than any other engine in the shop.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe even more than that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, it will make more than a, you know, a regular like, hemmy deal, like a proline hemmy, it will almost make as much as that, you know, and that's make more or 5,000 horsepower, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: But a V10 at 3600 horsepower, those vipers, they're making 2800 foot pounds of torque or something, it's absurd.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, obviously they have a lot of filling, cylinder filling capability, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: They've usually got a fairly big head on it, big valves in them, stuff like that, but they're heavy.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the rotating assemblies have the mass in the engines heavy.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that takes a little while to get going, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's a thing, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: same thing with the cylinder heads.
[SPEAKER_05]: You've got a big rocker arm, a push rod, lifter, big lifter in it, diameter as far as that's concerned.
[SPEAKER_05]: A cam shaft that's, you know, this long and that twist from front to back, you know, there's all all kinds of stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, scuff the cam journal.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's all kinds of stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Why that engines a little bit,
[SPEAKER_05]: outdated compared to the newer stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you look at this oddied deal.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a lot more compact.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's got to dry some system on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: All the way, I already have it dry.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: The water pumps amounted to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's got all the scavenged sections, you know, run back.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the oil from the head doesn't run back into the oil, into the crankcase area, it's a separate system.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, it's very advanced.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's extremely advanced.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then look at the weight of all the valve train stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: a quarter of the weight of a V10 Viper, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so anyways, that's a huge thing, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It allows it to accelerate, it allows it to be stable in all the parts staying in contact with each other, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so like, man, it's just the evolution of stuff is all that it is, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just like your camera equipment.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's all gotten better and smaller and more compact and it does a better job than it used to so it's But that's the thing too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I would just talk about kind of like this on the way here in the car Is like a lot of the stuff that I have now I've had for five years and you get to a point where it becomes Marketing at some points.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you don't really need all this eight-case stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: You're fine with 1080 But the newer stuff will make the job easier, but you can get it done with
[SPEAKER_04]: you know the older stuff right look at all my equipment on their right understand we were looking at them like you don't you think that because you're involved with some of the fastest cars in the world like it be some crazy and I've been to some crazy machine shops but um I appreciate the fact that it can be done with less because I'm the same way it's the guys man it's all about the guys and the people and the team that you've got doing it right that's what's all about
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so it's definitely something that I definitely commend you on for sure being able to pump all these engines out of a smaller shop.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And do your thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you do the 2J stuff as well, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: For Big Vig Vector.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: What the 2J?
[SPEAKER_04]: I've talked about 2J plenty of times in this podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's more so it import podcast because I'm into imports.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we're trying to make our way over to the
[SPEAKER_04]: So you've built these engines, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And one of the things that people are starting to, I guess, move over to is like the dark stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: So how advanced is that compared to the stock casting?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, when do you need to run that block?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if there's a need so much, the problem that we have is the finalized.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, you know, at some point, the
[SPEAKER_05]: you know the factory blocks move around so much right you know so like yeah a fifteen hundred or above right you know where the dart block would probably live a lot longer of a life right uh at some point when we take the factory two j's apart there's a coolant crossover in between on like a steam hole essentially between the two cylinders
[SPEAKER_05]: You see those lines all the time in the boards when you take them apart, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's all that stuff moving around, you know, that's water or steam coming through there and then the board moving around because there's no support in that area, because there's a channel behind there, you know, we constantly have the decks of the blocks crack on those things in a headbolt hole.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so like, you know, we do a ton of 2Js for Victor and he gets all of these stock cores.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the first thing is take them apart, clean them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Magna flux them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, and that's to magnetize that block and to see if there's any cracks in it because it's steel, it's iron, so you're able to magnetize it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, so that's the first thing and more often than not, there's cracks in the decks going to a headbolt hole from a little coolant hole, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that becomes the thing, you know, what I could tell you is if you overheated to Jay, the decks of the block won't be flat.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, particularly towards the back of the engine, cylinder 6, 5, you know, that stuff starts to move around, where the dart block, there's a lot more material makeup in there, the deck of the blocks thicker, you know, we've checked all of the material thickness on that dart block when they first came, you know, Mike Penetta sent me one from dart, um, I think Victor was the first one to send stuff to dart, right, you know, like me and Victor and, uh,
[SPEAKER_05]: and send cores so we can start this project and we got them back we checked thickness of them and they're they're a lot thicker the cylinder bars are able the first one we did was eighty eight millimeters I think we we ran it really big to see how well it would hold up and it it held up fantastic crankcase pressure was locked in way better than it was with the factory block you know
[SPEAKER_05]: that's a direct indication that, you know, the foundation, the casting is more stable.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's better, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so I'd say 1500 horsepower above.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a great idea.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it seems like a lot more people are trying to push towards that rather than like a billet block.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think that no matter what you have more cool and capacity in the dark block, okay, then any of the billet blocks, it's hard to put water in anything billet.
[SPEAKER_05]: It requires plating, you see all the plates with holes in the o-rings on the side, or welding, and the amount of water that you're able to put in a billet block is usually not that much.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the routing of the water usually is not that well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Where the cast block, you're able to put that all into the casting box and you've got plenty of capacity of water, you've got the correct flow of water, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And if you do it right, the water stuff's amazing.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it could take you really for, you know, I mean, water is a fantastic thing to have in these engines, you know, you just got to do it right, so.
[SPEAKER_04]: So when you mentioned overheating, what would directly affect that in the 2J?
[SPEAKER_05]: like what it's meaning someone running it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, like, well, because you can run several things too hot and you can run oil hot water.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, like, for one cylinder too hot, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So the tune up, right, is just too naturally hot, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So maybe you don't have enough fuel, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: In the cylinder, maybe you have too much ignition timing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you're just shift in the car in the wrong spot.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the converter's lug in the engine down, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe you have a lock up in the timing for the lock-up, shifted it at the wrong time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, so there's all these instances that could cause heat, right, in a cylinder, an injector driver going bad, right, you know, like all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that could be something that overheats a cylinder.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the results of that are melted pistons, rings that become soft and lose their tension.
[SPEAKER_05]: head gaskets that are depleted, you know, and you could, before you have these problems, you could catch it through sensors and data and stuff like that, you know, but that's one instance, you know, another thing is the guys that do the highway pools or the road racing, you know, stuff like that, those cars,
[SPEAKER_05]: don't have enough capacity to do that kind of stuff, cooling capacity to do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what I mean by that is you go on by a Mustang and it's got a cooling system that's designed to drive 60 or 70 miles an hour on the interstate.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, and drive around town within those demands, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's generating that amount of heat.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's moving that much fuel through the engine.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's creating that much heat.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's what it's able to dissipate, because that's its efficiency range.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, now we're making 1500 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or 2000, we have the same cooling system.
[SPEAKER_05]: right, same amount of capacity of cooling system.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's inadequate at that point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, did we upgrade an oil cooler?
[SPEAKER_05]: Did we not?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's all of these things.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's when that starts to become a problem is when guys take a street car and then they try to make it into a race car, they try to go as fast as a race car and they don't have the peripherals to go with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: We see that all the time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Guys, you know, take a 12 or 1400 horsepower Mustang.
[SPEAKER_05]: and they're out there and they're going eights or sevens, you know, like, well, I want to go faster.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, then they cross that line in the sand.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now they need a fuel system, maybe a different ECU, different transmission, gear ratio, converter, you know, rear gear, right, to accept that turbos, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, there's all these things that happen.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so, and if you don't make those changes, well then that's when you could run into these situations where something's inadequate, right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, so that's when you could overheat something multiple different ways.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, how fast can you like ruin an engine technically, like how long would you have to be overheating the engine before it becomes a catastrophic issue?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, there's a couple of ways that you could know, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And through some of the data, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So like a cool pressure sensor, a crankcase pressure sensor, an oil temperature sensor, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So through some of those, so for instance, like a coolant pressure sensor, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: If I'm running 40 pounds of boosts, and I have 10 pounds of coolant pressure, so whatever is in the cooling system, there's only 10 pounds.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that means that none of that combustion gas has gotten to that cooling system, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: vice versa right if i'm at 40 pounds of boost and now i'm at 28 or 30 pounds of cooling you know pressure well it's starting to get close to that number and once it hits that number that means the gasket's depleted so you've blown the head gasket so you know i tell guys when they get an engine the first thing you should do is
[SPEAKER_05]: is make an easy run.
[SPEAKER_05]: Make a run, you know, if like if you don't know any data from a previous engine or combination, make easy runs and then get that information.
[SPEAKER_05]: So get your standard, get baseline.
[SPEAKER_05]: My car with this cooling system in it makes X amount of coolant pressure.
[SPEAKER_05]: and based on the ambient temperature and how I heated up or where that coolant temperature is, yeah, might be the starting point of my pressure number, but I only want to see the rate of increase the same, yeah, you know, so like if it increased 10 pounds at 800 horsepower, when I'm making 1600 horsepower, I want it to only increase 10 pounds or maybe 11 pounds, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It needs to be within that range.
[SPEAKER_05]: If it increased 20 pounds, well, you know, we knew we got something going on.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've passed that limitations.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the same thing with the crankcase pressure, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: If you get your engine back from me and you get it all running and we're making a pound of crankcase pressure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, all right, cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you've put 100 laps on it, well now it's at three pounds of crankcase pressure all of a sudden, well we've lost our ring seal somehow, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: We've overheated our rings, we've pissed it off, the pistons upset, you know, something's going on in the engine somewhere to move that combustion gas past the rings into the crankcase and increase that number.
[SPEAKER_05]: So when someone says, well, when do I freshen an engine up?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like how do I know when to freshen us up?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's how you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: right you need a cool pressure sensor a crankcase pressure sensor oil temperature you know if your oil temperature is all of a sudden doing something crazy and it's way high you're probably creating heat so you're tearing a bearing up or a cam journal or something along those lines right because it the oil has to dissipate that heat right so it's in contact with that part now that number is going to be higher that rate that you've
[SPEAKER_05]: are used to is not the same, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So when you get an engine and you just like for us when Brett gets an engine back in, if it's not that good, Job tells me like, do this thing's a scholarship, like it's, I'm just being honest with you.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not sealed up, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And Job will tell me every time.
[SPEAKER_05]: And sometimes we gotta take it apart and freshen it, you know, like hone it and also goes again, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: But, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: It's happened.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's happened to everyone, you know, but that's how you know, that's how before we even make two or three laps in that thing, we know if it's the right one or it's not, you know what I mean, or the condition of it and it's based off of that information.
[SPEAKER_04]: What about the oil pressure?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because, secondly, you mentioned bearings, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So wouldn't the oil pressure, if there was something going on, let's say with the bearings, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Wouldn't the oil pressure technically read lower?
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we look for an oil pressure that,
[SPEAKER_05]: is a consistent and not on the old bypass spring.
[SPEAKER_05]: So in other words, like, when you start it up, if it's cold and everything's cold, it might have so much pressure that it's just on this bypass spring and it's bypassing the oil because the engine
[SPEAKER_05]: is so tight that it can't move that much through it, so it's the pressure's higher.
[SPEAKER_05]: So sometimes that's a hard number to kind of reference.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like to reference a hot idle oil pressure.
[SPEAKER_05]: So like if my car idols at 180 degrees of coolant temperature, and it's got 30 pounds of oil pressure at 750 RPMs.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, every time it's 180 degrees, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: temperature, the ambient air temperature, similar, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, like, that thing should have 30 pounds of oil pressure or within a few numbers of it, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you saw a 15 or 20 pound drop or anything substantially different, that's that indicator, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So like, you have to get it to where the oil pump is just running on itself and not on a bias pass, you don't have like this abundance of oil, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And needs to be just running on its own circuit.
[SPEAKER_05]: And, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: not bypassing, and then that's a good number to reference.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, so like, do your car when you're sitting in traffic?
[SPEAKER_05]: Look down, if it's 50 pounds, it's 50 pounds every time we're good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: If it's 20, we know we got something wrong, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Or if it's, you know, 10 less, then you could go to your oil temperature.
[SPEAKER_05]: And if your oil temperature is not some drastic number, well, then maybe it's just a little bit of ambient temperature.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sitting in July and Florida out of Streetlight, you know, like that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_05]: Vice versa, if that oil temp is 30 degrees hotter, 40 degrees hotter, and it's raising, it's not trying to stabilize, you know you're creating some kind of friction or heat in the engine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that the standard for all engines, as a matter of what, like all temperature should be pretty much, like if it's, if your oil temp is at like, I want 240, right, across any engine platform, then that should be something to look at.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, it's just the standard deal, you know, so like, it could be, yeah, what temps and it all needs to be the same and that's what I mean by like, when you get an engine from any engine builder, the first thing that you should do is validate all of these systems and standardize your numbers, you know, so you have an idea of what it was when it came to
[SPEAKER_05]: you know and if you've already been running coyote engines or two jays or whatever it might be like you have an idea of you know what you should see you know and just work off of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Brett's running all these sensors right in his car more than you could ever yeah more than I even know right yeah yeah um because you mentioned the crankcase uh the crankcase pressure sensor
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, a crankcase pressure sensor, a coolant pressure sensor, you know the oil temperature.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is different obviously from a back pressure sensor, of course, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's just another one and that tells you, you know, obviously when you're out of the efficiency of the turbos, so like when our back pressure gets past our manifold pressure, we try to change turbos.
[SPEAKER_05]: We always want to run into the efficiency range of that turbo.
[SPEAKER_04]: you know.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't know if it's a budget thing, but why do you think people fail to add the correct sensors or even try to skimp out on certain parts, especially sensors, because not everybody's going to want to run every sensor on their car, maybe it's just a street car and so on, but like some of the ones you mentioned, a lot of people don't really have, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think they're invaluable to be honest with you.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we would have torn so much stuff up if we didn't have all those rife sensors on the car.
[SPEAKER_05]: 20 or 30 engines like we would have destroyed if they didn't catch them prior to them hurting themselves I mean like so that's the key to it you know is doing that but you got to have enough input and outputs through an ECU so like what happens is if you have a factory ECU or you know that's hey maybe I have a holly or yeah and I only have X amount of inputs you know like um
[SPEAKER_04]: That's true, I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_05]: So they can't get there, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so then at that point, I've recommended some guys like, you know, separate, you know, boxes like a race pack for something.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like you could just buy a sportsman race pack and put all these inputs in there and pull that up, you know, and just see, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's ways to get it done.
[SPEAKER_05]: London has a couple of different ways for his factory, you see, you cars that they could implement some of that stuff and that helps because
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, what if a guy all of a sudden changes a torque converter in a car and it's super tight?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, and then now the coolant pressure, you know, raised, you know, or something like that, well, you're like, hey, you're getting ready to knock the head gasket out of that thing, because you've got this real tight torque converter.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, nothing about anything, you just change a torque converter and now the engines pissed off because of the tune-ups hot.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you know, so anyways, like,
[SPEAKER_05]: just how you know it's a lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: I got your head spinning but but that's that's the reality of it man and that's what you got to do to stay ahead of it, stay ahead of the failures, stay ahead of the problems and then that's only a couple sensors to keep the engine alive until the condition of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot more sensors that we use for
[SPEAKER_04]: All kinds of other things, you know, right, but those will be the main ones that kind of keep the engine It's the main line.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And keep moving forward.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: What are some of the things that people Mess up in the break-in process when they have a fresh engine build?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, one of the biggest thing I think is form material in the engine form material form material so like for instance you came to me for what reason you came to me because did you blow an engine up?
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you heard an engine previously?
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I build you something, you put it back in your car with all of the peripherals that you tore the last engine up with.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's probably the biggest thing that people could really mess up on break-in.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if you ever get an engine that
[SPEAKER_05]: blown up, you tear it up, or something has happened to it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Usually place, or thoroughly go through all of the peripherals, the covers, the oil coolers, anything that has had oil touch it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Anything that bolts on that engine, turbos, intake manifold.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've had, I've had engines blow up, and there's intake valves stuck in the intake manifold, and they put it on a brand new engine, and it runs right through it, and the thing didn't run for,
[SPEAKER_05]: one minute and it's had all this form material run through it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So so I think that would be one of the biggest things in the coyote stuff and the V10 stuff that we do.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's all roller valve trains.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we really don't have any embedding or any kind of stuff like that like with the RB or 2J with a bucket.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that bucket has to start rotating or it starts to go all itself up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you know, that's something that needs to have probably a little more zinc in the oil is that kind of engine that has a flat tapet style, you know, cam shaft system.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then as far as really the coyotes, really, it's just all engines, it's seeding the rings in, and essentially, if you look at the rings when they come out of the engine, there's going to be some embedment all around us.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there'll be a wear mark all the way around the ring.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, sometimes that doesn't happen because the rings not all the way around, or the bore's not perfectly around, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: More often than not, it's
[SPEAKER_05]: the rings aren't around.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: And there's light tight gauges for that.
[SPEAKER_05]: We have light tight gauges to check that.
[SPEAKER_05]: But essentially, you need to run that engine through a break-in procedure, right, to make that ring all the way around.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it seals up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's how that deal works.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the ring's rotating and you have all these valleys and peaks on the cylinder wall.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: the valley is what holds the oil, and the peak is the load bearing surface, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So essentially imagine the oil getting flung up on the cylinder wall, and it running down the cylinder wall.
[SPEAKER_05]: If your valleys are real flat, like real smooth, when you say valleys, what do you mean by that?
[SPEAKER_05]: The cross hatch pattern?
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So when you see the pattern in the hone, right, on the cylinder wall, all these scratches, the depth of that scratch is the valley.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: The peak is the mountain top, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the valley and peaks.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, when the ring comes across and rides on any surface, it takes that peak off.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because it wears that's what wearing in the rings are, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's taking some of that peaks off.
[SPEAKER_05]: We plateau home to do that prior to the engine having to do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But that's something that engine builders do.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then the valley's what holds that oil.
[SPEAKER_05]: So you need to get enough engine speed to get the oil pushed up onto the cylinder walls.
[SPEAKER_05]: So the ring has something to ride against.
[SPEAKER_05]: It rides against this real small film of oil.
[SPEAKER_05]: right and it goes up and down well in the meantime it's knocking those peaks if there's any that are left that are sticking past that oil yeah right all there's a little peak sticking out of that layer of oil clip right and that's that's betting the rings in right that's making the rings round that's breaking an engine and seeding the engine in uh bearings don't need anything
[SPEAKER_05]: Any kind of valve train that's roll rise doesn't need anything really just flat tap it stuff and seating the rings in the race car engines have no break in time like
[SPEAKER_05]: The thing starts, we push it to the starting line, you know, and off they go in a lot of instances.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, we want to make sure that those engines when we put them together, that those rings are really round.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like everything is perfect.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is possible you could.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because there's not a lot of service time prior to running it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: The engines that you guys drag race with.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you notice a different pattern with the cylinder walls?
[SPEAKER_04]: On those, as opposed to somebody who's just like street driving the car?
[SPEAKER_05]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: The street cars seal up usually better because they do a better job at it.
[SPEAKER_05]: They put the time and effort into sealing them up and usually the engines aren't subjected to as much fuel.
[SPEAKER_05]: For instance, like Brett's car, he needs 3,200 horsepower worth of fuel, a method all right to go through it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: That's a ton of fuel, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And that
[SPEAKER_05]: right well that same thing happens in the cylinder you poured in the cylinder it gets down the cylinder wall it tries to take the oil that's attached the cylinder wall and moves it right I mean it's like cleaning it's actually washing the cylinders away right washing the cylinders out you know so um
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, in an instance like that, you know, you're subjecting that thing to a lot of fuel.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's hurting you, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: For seeding rings.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Same thing, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You're taking that thing and you're putting all the cylinder pressure and you're pushing it out against the cylinder wells.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, how hard are you doing that?
[SPEAKER_05]: Are you doing it real hard or not?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so some of that plays a factor in it on how well it's able to seal it up because you just don't simply have enough engine cycles.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: The engine hasn't ran long enough, right, to get all embedded and happy just because we go right at it, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: How many miles do you say on a street car would take to actually fully seed rings?
[SPEAKER_05]: It could be if a guy has it right, it could be within 20 miles, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: If a guy doesn't have a tune up right and it's getting a little bit of this and little that and he's
[SPEAKER_05]: driving it, you know, slow, like you need to get some engine speed up so it gets oil up there.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you just lend it idle, maybe like 5,000 RPM?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, 2,000, 2500 RPM.
[SPEAKER_05]: You just need to get enough windage to where it's starting to throw a little oil everywhere.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's pushing oil up the cylinder walls just from the viscosity of the oil, running up there.
[SPEAKER_05]: The rings are pulling it up, you know, the pistons do for that fact a little bit as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, yeah, you need to get an affention speed to get the oil up there, because if not, then you're, you know, the, the ring's riding on the cylinder wall.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So then, you know, that takes all those peaks and lays them down and then the valley's aren't as deep.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're, they're a little less.
[SPEAKER_05]: So like,
[SPEAKER_05]: If you took a eyedropper of oil and you dropped it on the top of the cylinder, it's going to run down.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you have a rough cross hatch pattern and a lot of valley, that oil isn't going to just run straight down.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to slowly run down that cylinder wall because it's getting in all of those nukes and crannies.
[SPEAKER_05]: I see.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, if it was a mere smooth, right, or 100,000 miles on that thing,
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And there's no valley left in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You took that oil dropper and you put it on the top of that cylinder.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to run down really fast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not holding any oil.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So when it leaves here, it holds a lot of oil.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's it's
[SPEAKER_05]: The end customer's job is to do a good job and it continues the whole good oil and it doesn't mitigate the oil up the cylinder and into the combustion chamber and smoke and I mean we've all seen catch cans huff in right well that's part of it you know so I know my not so little bit sorry not wrong with a little bit
[SPEAKER_04]: When I first started up, I think for the first, I would say for the first CDs, and I was dressing about it, and I had to keep asking Lee, who built the engine, I'm like, dude, is this normal?
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like, yeah, it's, especially if you're running ethanol too.
[SPEAKER_04]: For sure, but people always, like, people don't know anything about cars at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: He just, like, y'know, he thinks smoking man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, it's blown up too, it's normal.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's all right, it's normal.
[SPEAKER_05]: It dude, like, the crankcase pressure stuff tells you that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, if you had that data, you could be like, man, this is the same as the last one, like, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's locked in, the last one lasted me extra long, you know, like, so you'll be able to know that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or maybe, hey, this one's a little looser than that last one, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: This is the why it's huffing a little bit out of the catch can.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, for those guys who are building an engine right now in their garage, probably listening to this podcast, we're watching it, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is one of the biggest things that, or biggest pieces of advice you can give to those guys, in terms of making sure that their engine is put together well, and some things obviously spoke about some red flags on the machine shops, and some things to look for when you're building an engine, of course.
[SPEAKER_04]: But for those guys, what would you say those guys,
[SPEAKER_05]: take your time, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: The biggest thing is take your time and learn how to do it right, read.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's plenty of stuff out there to educate guys on how to build an engine correctly.
[SPEAKER_05]: A forum, Facebook, that's not the place to look, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the gray and gray and gray and gray and like whatever row like that's not the place to look you know So there's plenty of Expose you know like technical stuff on YouTube like all these engine builders given technical advice But ultimately learn how to do the basics okay learn how to read a micrometer Learn how to set bearing clearance foul rings and Attention to detail is the most important thing
[SPEAKER_05]: No engine leaves here unless it's a 100% perfect.
[SPEAKER_05]: So just because it's Friday, it doesn't mean they got to leave.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_05]: They leave when, of course it is, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Because like, hey, we got to get stuff out the door.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, we got to make this race or hey, you know, we're putting my engine together tonight.
[SPEAKER_05]: So come over and like, we got to get it done.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's not the way engine build and works, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: So attention to detail.
[SPEAKER_05]: Learn how to do it correctly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Take your time.
[SPEAKER_05]: So call an engine guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Call a good engine guy and ask a simple question and I promise you they'll give you a good advice, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: But learn how to learn how to read a micrometer, you know, learn how to read a micrometer, learn how to do barren clearance, foul rings.
[SPEAKER_05]: Learn how to torque something, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: You're just not screwing something together, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, this is a very, very, very technical piece.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so treat it that way.
[SPEAKER_05]: And in the same instance, engines are kind of dumb, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: They only do what you tell them to do, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so like if I make this thing loose or I put a bunch of compression, what's going to be a nasty thing, or if it's loose, it might not have a little pressure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like it only does what you do to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, they want to have a mind of their own.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you're the cause of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So take your time, do it right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Timing an engine, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: That is one of the things that I don't really understand, you probably can't even break that down.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's probably like I need to watch a video on that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I see that tool over there you got.
[SPEAKER_04]: Degree wheel.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I think that that is probably one of the things that intimidates people who are probably getting into it and I've I've watched a couple of videos on that but it's like I don't even understand that whole concept using that and some people just use like the Marxist and stuff like that to kind of sure but at what level would you need to use that is I just to make sure everything's like perfect perfect.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, I mean, we use it on everyone, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, so, of course, for a guy in the garage, and maybe you don't have that, like, well, you know, I think it all boils down to what you're trying to do, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: If you're just building a 350 small block Chevy or an LS that makes 300, 400 horsepower, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Who cares if the cams two or three degrees this way or that way?
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: nobody knows any different, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, if I take one of these engines that is in out of Lund's car, John Lund's car, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's run in the number and everything as it should.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I put it back together and the timings a couple degrees off, they're going to know it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's going to run different.
[SPEAKER_05]: Something's going to be different.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's why we have to do it every time.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, what I could tell you is there's a lot of variances in all these parts, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: We have right here.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just made that chain length gauge.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it has a hundred pounds of my buddy pat made it for me.
[SPEAKER_05]: It has a hundred pounds of air on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: We put the timing chains on it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It compresses, you know, pulls them apart and it has a dial indicator on the end of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It tells how long that chain is.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if that change stretches or not, well, what we've found is a variance in all these changes, chains.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we take 50 chains out of the boxes and we chuck them all and there's a variance in all of them.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if you don't check your timing with a degree wheel and you just do a go link to link.
[SPEAKER_05]: That bank, that's longer, is going to have a different timing, camshaft timing than the other, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's too many variables with these engines to not do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: OK.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if you're doing a fixed lock-outs or anything, you got to put a degree we'll want it.
[SPEAKER_04]: OK.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you have a variable VCT,
[SPEAKER_05]: then it's kind of no harm no foul because you're able to move it right yeah if if if you do a crank learn and a cam learn where the cams at you can say okay it needs to be a couple degrees advance you could just do a different duty cycle right on a soul annoyed and roll it ahead or behind you know so um so we're able to move them
[SPEAKER_05]: But when they are fixed, you know, we have to do it, you know, for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: What I could tell you is it's fairly easy once you understand it, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Once you know that the crank goes around in a circle, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And you're just trying to get this mark in line with that mark, you know, a certain particular number.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's fairly straightforward.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're advancing it.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're retarding it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's just because I saw numbers, and I'm like, oh man, I ain't.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, he's writing stuff down.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, I'm in.
[SPEAKER_05]: You don't need to know that, mate.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they got calculators, so you could do do do do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I saw a few writing stuff down.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm like, I'm in.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just have to figure that one out.
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe you have somebody kind of show me how to do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Or maybe I'll face time somebody face time Jay or something like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we're doing a show.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: When we're doing them, we'll have all the Sharpie marks.
[SPEAKER_05]: There'll be numbers all over the top.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's super intimidating.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, what right now, what do you think the future is for Brett's car?
[SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, you guys are working with the billet stuff now, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: You just used that at FL2K for the first time you said, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep, you have you used three of them, or is you still on the same one?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, same block, yeah, yeah, we're still on the same block, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, where are you guys trying to push this block to and what are you guys expecting to run with this with this ended block, the billet?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, um, I think we're going to concentrate a little bit on some eighth-mile racing thickness here and see how fast we can get it to go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, really just trying to perfect the package that we currently have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: The car, um, the package that we have, um,
[SPEAKER_05]: try to get a little bit more laps out of it and cycle time out of it between fresh and up word a really good spot everything that's coming out of the engines looking really good so we could extend our service intervals a little bit further you know so that will be really good you know what work quite as hard on that and man I think just trying to you know set our goals you know we're going to try to
[SPEAKER_05]: When the LDR championship this year coming up, you know, that's our goals.
[SPEAKER_05]: When the money races we can, when as many rounds as we possibly can.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I'll think you'll see us at a couple of the quarter mile races this year doing like the Texas 2K and yeah, and the World Cup deal.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I don't know how fast you're going to see us go at those quarter mile races.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: How, you know, I'm sure you'll see some five second passes, you know, but I'm not too sure how much faster than that will go.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I don't know how much faster the promoters want those classes to be either.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: At some point it's getting really fast.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I think we're going over 240 miles an hour now.
[SPEAKER_05]: So.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the quarter mile.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we're going 196 to the half.
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's almost 200 to the half, you know, so that's it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now is he you see the only one running this this black right now?
[SPEAKER_05]: He is the only one currently running the noon in block.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've got 11 more that are on their way.
[SPEAKER_05]: You saw, you know, out there.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we've got some more in production for customers currently.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that block is the one you mentioned that was like around 50 if you wanted to do that whole set up or that's the previous Yeah, I mean the previous one could get that high I mean it could get up there pretty high, you know by the time because it really the only difference would be a block change Right, we're still using all the same parts other than the block, you know, saying it's just the but then you have It's more of a safety thing, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean when that thing breaks it's not it's not good, you know, it's not going to be good, you know, you've got a bomb that thing makes 3400 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's a lot of combustion happening so.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to be driving it when it breaks at 3400 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that was our big push to get the billet block done, you know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think we could go as fast as we want to go with a count block, but, you know, for what?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, right at that power, for that power.
[SPEAKER_04]: Man, this has been great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much for all the knowledge.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was probably one of the more technical podcasts for sure, but it's a machine shop.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure, I know for sure it can be way more technical in terms of numbers, partner numbers and so on.
[SPEAKER_04]: We spoke about before, but
[SPEAKER_04]: I think for general base knowledge, I think it was a really solid interview in terms of people understanding what you do and what it takes to build an engine at any power, by the thousand, maybe even 500, 3500, a lot goes into it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I do appreciate your time and thank you so much for sharing with us your Apple Podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you can let the viewers and listeners know where to find you if they're looking to work with you and they want to get an engine built by FFRE, how do they reach out to you?
[SPEAKER_05]: You could check us out on the website at fastforwardracetons.com.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've got Gina and Ashley in the office there, or you could give us a call at 727-847-5777 for whatever you need.
[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, thank you so much, Joe.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_04]: For those of you who are listening and watching, make sure you guys hit that like button, and also make sure you guys subscribe.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if you are listening right now, make sure you guys are continuing to listen on all streaming platforms.
[SPEAKER_04]: Until next time guys, we'll catch you on the next one.
[SPEAKER_04]: Peace.