WEBVTT 00:02.680 --> 00:10.816 [SPEAKER_03]: Hello and welcome to Table Talk, a show where I chat with other creators in the TTRVG space about how they run their tables. 00:11.397 --> 00:24.402 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm DangerDanger's, the GM and host of D&DARC, and joining us at the table today is an actor, educator, improviser, professional GM for hire, and GM for Dungeons & Cabins, Zach Maseous. 00:24.382 --> 00:24.782 [SPEAKER_03]: Hello. 00:24.842 --> 00:26.604 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, Dan. 00:26.664 --> 00:27.705 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for having me. 00:27.765 --> 00:28.045 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 00:28.125 --> 00:31.508 [SPEAKER_01]: You have so many fun modifiers to go in front of my name. 00:31.588 --> 00:33.189 [SPEAKER_01]: I love hearing all those. 00:33.209 --> 00:34.711 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think if you had asked me. 00:34.751 --> 00:36.332 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that I would have said all those things. 00:36.372 --> 00:38.754 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's fun to hear you prepared a list. 00:38.814 --> 00:39.294 [SPEAKER_01]: I like that. 00:39.895 --> 00:43.778 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I very much appreciate you taking some time out to chat with me today. 00:43.838 --> 00:47.241 [SPEAKER_03]: You've got a pretty good list of qualifications. 00:47.281 --> 00:51.104 [SPEAKER_03]: So I feel an obligation to make sure that I am representing you well. 00:51.405 --> 00:51.725 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it. 00:51.745 --> 00:52.686 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad to be here. 00:52.706 --> 00:54.287 [SPEAKER_01]: Though seriously, this is going to be fun. 00:54.267 --> 01:02.059 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so to get us started, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your history, with the TTRBG community, and, of course, about dungeons and cabins? 01:02.440 --> 01:03.501 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely, yeah. 01:03.602 --> 01:09.210 [SPEAKER_01]: So, like many people, you know, I've been playing D&D for many years now. 01:09.591 --> 01:18.244 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I started when I was a, maybe a junior in high school I want to say, you know, friend of mine just came over like, hey, we're going to play D&D. 01:18.285 --> 01:20.528 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew almost 01:20.508 --> 01:39.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, he handed me some ancient players' handbook that smelled like smoke and cigarettes and I'm sure they'll do and have been there for decades, you know, as probably his dad's book and popped it open, we started playing and then I just kind of never looked back and got into DMing many years later. 01:39.340 --> 01:58.345 [SPEAKER_01]: After college like many DMs do because I was desperate to play the game and we had no DM and none of my friends would bite the bullet so I just said you know screw it all run one and then we'll figure it out from there and then the moment I did I was like oh shoot 01:58.325 --> 01:59.628 [SPEAKER_01]: This is all I want to do now. 01:59.648 --> 02:00.750 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just this. 02:01.111 --> 02:03.417 [SPEAKER_01]: So kind of worked out well for me there. 02:03.437 --> 02:05.601 [SPEAKER_01]: Definitely prefer DMing to playing. 02:05.642 --> 02:09.611 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a question a lot of my players ask me, you know, because I have a forever DM. 02:09.711 --> 02:11.074 [SPEAKER_01]: But by choice, I like it. 02:11.314 --> 02:14.241 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have been professionally DMing for 02:14.221 --> 02:21.393 [SPEAKER_01]: little over two years now, two to three years, somewhere in that range is when I kind of started to delve into that world. 02:21.734 --> 02:22.996 [SPEAKER_01]: I run a ton of games. 02:23.256 --> 02:31.470 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean D&D, of course, being the bread winner of the TTRPG family of games that I run, but I'm a big fan of things like Monster of the Week. 02:31.450 --> 02:33.213 [SPEAKER_01]: I run a lot of monster of the weak games. 02:33.293 --> 02:34.335 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that system. 02:34.375 --> 02:39.323 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been playing with the outgun system, which is kind of a newer one, and I love kids on bikes. 02:39.363 --> 02:40.304 [SPEAKER_01]: All kinds of stuff. 02:40.324 --> 02:42.328 [SPEAKER_01]: So I like to run all different kinds of games. 02:42.808 --> 02:47.316 [SPEAKER_01]: And then like you said, Dungeon and Cabins is sort of my biggest claim to fame. 02:47.376 --> 02:50.100 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say in the D&D community at the moment, which is, 02:50.080 --> 02:51.242 [SPEAKER_01]: Such a gift. 02:51.463 --> 03:05.372 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that place you know is really special is really cool and I just feel so so amazingly fortunate to be able to even participate in it, let alone to be able to actually like kind of have a creative role. 03:05.352 --> 03:07.536 [SPEAKER_01]: Behind the thing is just so amazing. 03:07.576 --> 03:10.822 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sure your listeners know, but it's an adult summer camp We've get together. 03:10.862 --> 03:11.604 [SPEAKER_01]: We play D&D. 03:12.044 --> 03:24.447 [SPEAKER_01]: We do summer camp games and then what happens in real life affects the story I think that's like one of the taglines that Sammy has I think pretty much to a T you got Sammy I think I'd nailed it, right? 03:24.467 --> 03:24.868 [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard it. 03:25.189 --> 03:26.271 [SPEAKER_01]: I've heard it a few times now. 03:26.431 --> 03:26.972 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah 03:26.952 --> 03:31.116 [SPEAKER_03]: So, how did you get involved with Dungeons and Capits? 03:31.136 --> 03:32.437 [SPEAKER_03]: What was the pipeline from there? 03:32.498 --> 03:35.821 [SPEAKER_03]: I know that you have done a bunch of stuff for start playing games. 03:36.141 --> 03:41.667 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure that that was a big foundation leading as a stepping stone to get two Dungeons and Capits. 03:42.087 --> 03:48.273 [SPEAKER_03]: But just walk me through a little bit, how you started versus how you got to where you are now. 03:48.834 --> 03:55.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Man, okay, I wish I so wish I had a more interesting and fascinating story to tell. 03:55.100 --> 04:09.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Because the real answer, which is going to sound like I'm giving you the short version of a story, the true story is I sent an email, and that's sort of what happened. 04:09.908 --> 04:17.563 [SPEAKER_01]: So I got, like I'm sure you did too, and I heard many people talking about it at Camp in general, but I got an Instagram ad. 04:18.050 --> 04:38.168 [SPEAKER_01]: saying Dungeons and Cabin sign up cool new thing and it was the first year I'd ever been done so you know of course I had never heard of it before and it was actually shortly after I had started DMing professionally so I really didn't have like a huge foundation of connections or like a resume that was really impressive or anything like that. 04:38.148 --> 05:04.982 [SPEAKER_01]: I think really I had just a moment of courage is really all it was and I sent Sammy an email just saying like hey I saw that you're doing this event and it looks really awesome I'm actually a DM and a professional actor and a trained actor and you know I kind of I kind of had a lean on some other credentials I had instead of the DMing world credentials that I was still building and I just said you know what keep me in mind if you need anyone 05:04.962 --> 05:09.369 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're looking for someone, let me know, I'm happy to provide anything else you need, whatever. 05:09.429 --> 05:10.992 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a nice email. 05:11.292 --> 05:14.858 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Sammy, email me back, saying, cool, I'll keep you on file. 05:14.918 --> 05:17.242 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're good, but if anything comes up, I'll let you know. 05:17.262 --> 05:18.704 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a nice email back. 05:19.065 --> 05:25.195 [SPEAKER_01]: And then a few months later, yeah, I think that the Dungeons & Cabons just sort of took off pretty rapidly. 05:25.415 --> 05:29.181 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it sold out that first year, almost immediately. 05:29.161 --> 05:31.965 [SPEAKER_01]: And then they had a hefty waiting list. 05:31.985 --> 05:37.293 [SPEAKER_01]: And anyway, it got to the point I think where Sammy was wondering whether she wanted to let in some more folks. 05:37.853 --> 05:43.021 [SPEAKER_01]: And then that's when she called me back and said, like, hey, if you're in, let's do this. 05:43.101 --> 05:45.945 [SPEAKER_01]: And I really quickly was like, I'm in. 05:45.985 --> 05:47.447 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll figure it out. 05:47.687 --> 05:48.629 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll figure out the dates. 05:48.689 --> 05:49.650 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, let's do it. 05:49.630 --> 05:59.542 [SPEAKER_01]: We met up in person, of course, and made sure that we meshed, and she told gave me the spiel, and I sort of talked to her about my experiences and the kinds of tables I run and what I like to do, etc. 05:59.602 --> 06:04.468 [SPEAKER_01]: And then luckily we just clicked, and it kind of worked out, and it felt good. 06:04.528 --> 06:12.798 [SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, she really kind of took a risk on me, I think, because she really didn't know me, as well as as she knew maybe some of the other DMs that were going that year. 06:13.078 --> 06:18.945 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm very grateful for that, 06:18.925 --> 06:19.926 [SPEAKER_01]: some place to be. 06:20.006 --> 06:22.388 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's sort of how I got there, which is crazy. 06:22.409 --> 06:23.129 [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that crazy? 06:23.229 --> 06:24.611 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I literally just sent an email. 06:24.791 --> 06:25.412 [SPEAKER_03]: Is that nuts? 06:25.952 --> 06:32.298 [SPEAKER_03]: It is, but it's also a testament to, like you were saying, it was kind of a leap of faith in a moment of courage. 06:32.719 --> 06:42.068 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think the fact that you were demonstrating that willingness to just dive right into the deep end and take that big swing, I think that that went a long way. 06:42.148 --> 06:45.692 [SPEAKER_03]: Sammy had some great things to say about you in general, 06:45.672 --> 06:54.224 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and I think she really admired that you were willing to take that risk and really put yourself out there and jump into the deep end. 06:54.965 --> 06:59.691 [SPEAKER_03]: To that end, she actually had a question for you that she wanted me to ask you and relay. 06:59.731 --> 07:00.572 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no. 07:00.593 --> 07:06.060 [SPEAKER_03]: So in this year's Dungeons and Cappens event, in the way that it culminated, there was one 07:06.040 --> 07:12.049 [SPEAKER_03]: Central Big Bad that was split amongst every table for a big final epic encounter. 07:12.510 --> 07:24.008 [SPEAKER_03]: And then it culminated in the end with one GM chosen at random to be the official real big bad and to close out the campaign. 07:24.689 --> 07:27.373 [SPEAKER_03]: And Sammy was telling me that on week one, 07:27.353 --> 07:36.341 [SPEAKER_03]: you were the one who drew the straw to be the final actual big bad and that you were very nervous about it going in. 07:36.401 --> 07:41.947 [SPEAKER_03]: She was saying that you said, I think I'm okay with this finale as long as I'm not the real one. 07:42.007 --> 07:55.099 [SPEAKER_03]: So she wanted me to ask you what that experience was like for you being put on the spot like that and being kind of forced to jump in and be challenged like that 07:55.079 --> 08:10.371 [SPEAKER_01]: Man, okay, well, you know what's funny that Sammy leaves out of that story conveniently Sammy is that she also said that she's good as long as she's not the real 08:10.351 --> 08:17.580 [SPEAKER_01]: We were both mutually like, yeah, okay, I feel good about this finale, it should be fine. 08:17.980 --> 08:20.163 [SPEAKER_01]: Because honestly, there were 60 M's. 08:20.323 --> 08:21.725 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, what are the chances? 08:22.325 --> 08:25.149 [SPEAKER_01]: I genuinely never considered that I would be the one to draw it. 08:25.489 --> 08:29.394 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I really didn't even consider that as a real possibility going in. 08:29.694 --> 08:31.296 [SPEAKER_01]: So, in all my prep, 08:31.276 --> 08:38.349 [SPEAKER_01]: we had a stat block for the true one, you might say, then the stat block for the refractions for what all the other DMs are playing. 08:39.030 --> 08:41.534 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think I even looked at the real one. 08:41.915 --> 08:44.920 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe once over, just to see, like, oh, that's cool. 08:44.940 --> 08:46.463 [SPEAKER_01]: He can do XYZ, whatever. 08:46.543 --> 08:47.725 [SPEAKER_01]: He has this many whatever. 08:47.825 --> 08:48.086 [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay. 08:48.106 --> 08:48.246 [SPEAKER_01]: Cool. 08:48.266 --> 08:48.667 [SPEAKER_01]: That's fine. 08:48.707 --> 08:49.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 08:49.048 --> 08:51.632 [SPEAKER_01]: But now I'm going to study this one because this is what I'm going to do. 08:52.033 --> 08:54.417 [SPEAKER_01]: No, of course, not the universe doesn't work that way. 08:54.497 --> 08:54.938 [SPEAKER_01]: So, 08:54.918 --> 09:20.824 [SPEAKER_01]: you know what's what's even funnier to is like in that moment when we were all drawing Sammy like calls us over it's a kind of a dramatic a moment of dramatic tension because the players don't really know what's going on here right and we're all reaching into this bag and drawing out our stat block whatever it says like you're the real one or it's blank it's so you know you're not and we're all drawing we're all drawing and as I'm pulling mine out Sammy saw it 09:20.804 --> 09:26.639 [SPEAKER_01]: And she immediately her eyes flick up to me, and I just shake my head, and then she nodded. 09:26.680 --> 09:36.265 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, you son of a, and I look at him and says, you're the, and she was just giving me the smile like sucks to be you. 09:36.245 --> 09:41.250 [SPEAKER_01]: So that was, that was just a really funny moment, but man, I really was nervous. 09:41.310 --> 10:01.932 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be honest, I really was because I felt that there was a lot of pressure, maybe around that role, because the intention behind that encounter that as it was crafted, and as it was related to us DMs, was that the refracted versions of this dude would die off faster, and the true version would be the last one standing. 10:01.912 --> 10:16.182 [SPEAKER_01]: And having come from year one, I kind of had an idea that once tables started running out of things to do, all those players were going to start standing up and watching at the tables that still had something to do. 10:16.583 --> 10:21.152 [SPEAKER_01]: And sure enough, that's what happened, you know, as it became clear that I was the only one left. 10:21.132 --> 10:29.267 [SPEAKER_01]: There was just a crowd of however many 40 folks around us watching our table play, which can be kind of stressful for people I can imagine. 10:29.627 --> 10:31.991 [SPEAKER_01]: I can only imagine what it feels like to be a player. 10:32.132 --> 10:34.235 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that would be pretty stressful too. 10:34.816 --> 10:38.483 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, it really was a night full of 10:38.463 --> 10:39.464 [SPEAKER_01]: serendipity. 10:39.484 --> 10:48.578 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there was just a lot that I think worked in our favor that night, one thing that happened was that we were in addition to being randomly drawn. 10:48.838 --> 10:50.340 [SPEAKER_01]: We were also rotating tables. 10:50.481 --> 10:52.323 [SPEAKER_01]: So we were all fighting all the players. 10:52.403 --> 10:52.984 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a whole thing. 10:53.645 --> 10:55.628 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel very fortunate. 10:55.608 --> 11:13.408 [SPEAKER_01]: that in the randomness of rotating, it just sort of worked out that when the last other DM died, and I was the only one left, I had rotated all the way back to my sky party, to my people, which felt really good because it could have easily have not happened that way. 11:13.428 --> 11:15.372 [SPEAKER_01]: It really truly did just like happen. 11:15.352 --> 11:25.286 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was really nice because I knew these players, I knew the relationships that they had built with some of the NPC characters that had a big role in the story. 11:25.587 --> 11:32.036 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just felt, this is kind of weird, but as a DM, it almost felt like I felt safe in that space. 11:32.376 --> 11:33.878 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I knew this space. 11:33.999 --> 11:35.100 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew these people. 11:35.240 --> 11:36.963 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew their play styles. 11:37.544 --> 11:39.927 [SPEAKER_01]: And I knew how they interacted with each other. 11:40.087 --> 11:43.452 [SPEAKER_01]: So I felt like, oh, okay. 11:43.432 --> 12:01.660 [SPEAKER_01]: I can deliver here for sure and it really did from the inside at least if it felt like it turned into a really cool moment I feel like I set them up so that they could really take big swings and they did like they were doing things that that were really powerful and cool and I think it was a really cool moment 12:01.640 --> 12:10.333 [SPEAKER_01]: Mainly because the players were so committed and so in it people were crying You know, it's like there are tears. 12:10.453 --> 12:11.514 [SPEAKER_01]: There's laughter. 12:11.615 --> 12:12.776 [SPEAKER_01]: There's cheering. 12:12.836 --> 12:27.057 [SPEAKER_01]: There's screaming There's people doing math, which is always very exciting It is fun when someone rolls something and they have all these things that they're adding because everyone's trying to help them out to get a really cool thing and they roll like a seven 12:27.037 --> 12:34.448 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a small one of like, oh, no, but then they're adding everything and by the end it's a 21 or something and it's and then it's like a cheer. 12:34.568 --> 12:35.289 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just cool. 12:35.349 --> 12:39.255 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a really, really cool community moments, I think. 12:39.335 --> 12:44.203 [SPEAKER_01]: But yes, it did start out with me being like, is it too late to quit? 12:45.605 --> 12:46.246 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 12:46.346 --> 12:47.888 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it was too late to quit. 12:48.209 --> 12:49.470 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just had to commit. 12:49.691 --> 12:51.554 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess it's kind of how I felt in that moment. 12:51.594 --> 12:53.196 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's funny. 12:53.176 --> 12:54.459 [SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome. 12:54.739 --> 13:01.373 [SPEAKER_03]: And the atmosphere of the finale from my perspective, at least from week two, was electric. 13:01.774 --> 13:04.179 [SPEAKER_03]: So I can only imagine the same thing was true for week one. 13:04.219 --> 13:09.430 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that I want to follow up on since you bring up the rotating GMs. 13:09.410 --> 13:23.047 [SPEAKER_03]: When I chatted with some of the other dungeons and cabins GMs, I approached that from like a game design standpoint of what it was like planning for that and factoring that in, but I haven't really touched on the experience from the GM's point of view. 13:23.087 --> 13:35.603 [SPEAKER_03]: So as a GM, what was that experience like of jumping from table to table to table, going into this fight in progress and tagging out with the other GMs? 13:35.718 --> 13:39.886 [SPEAKER_01]: It's seriously like nothing I've experienced as a DM before. 13:39.946 --> 13:52.309 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so fascinating because it totally changes the game and it really puts you as a DM like into a realm of uncertainty because I don't really know what I'm walking into in any given table. 13:52.289 --> 13:54.191 [SPEAKER_01]: which is what's so weird about it. 13:54.271 --> 13:58.155 [SPEAKER_01]: Like typically you know your players, you know what they like, you know what they don't like. 13:58.175 --> 14:00.498 [SPEAKER_01]: You know their characters, you know what their characters can do. 14:00.838 --> 14:03.141 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, like, who hits the hardest? 14:03.361 --> 14:05.483 [SPEAKER_01]: Who is the hardest to hit? 14:05.603 --> 14:07.025 [SPEAKER_01]: Who's the spellcaster even? 14:07.065 --> 14:07.986 [SPEAKER_01]: Just simple things. 14:08.526 --> 14:13.452 [SPEAKER_01]: And at an event like this when there's 40 other characters, you just don't know. 14:13.512 --> 14:19.478 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what's really, it's just so funny to walk up to a table and know the people there, 14:19.458 --> 14:36.184 [SPEAKER_01]: and have no idea what you're up against as a DM and they tell you quickly they show you really fast and what you're up against because they want to hit you hard and they've learned their own synergies over the last few days of like how do we maximize each other in these ways, you know. 14:36.164 --> 14:40.208 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't tell you how many times I came up to a table very confident. 14:40.368 --> 14:42.210 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm playing a god essentially, right? 14:42.390 --> 14:45.794 [SPEAKER_01]: And then immediately I'm like, okay, I'm stunned. 14:46.154 --> 14:47.396 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm paralyzed. 14:47.416 --> 14:48.477 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm blind. 14:48.797 --> 14:49.798 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to be grappled. 14:49.838 --> 14:56.145 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know how you did that, but you did, you know, it's like they know how to play with each other by now, which is just kind of fun. 14:56.185 --> 15:02.391 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's fun to like be able to undo those things and be like, well, I'm strong too in certain ways. 15:02.371 --> 15:25.932 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of give them a little bit of fear, but at the same time, like I feel like I'm fighting from my life out there often because these players just really know each other so well because the first year that we did DNC, we also did sequences of rotation where we were rotating to each other's tables or even situations where we were at tables and other people were rotating to us and things like that there was a bunch of other tricky stuff happening. 15:25.912 --> 15:27.814 [SPEAKER_01]: And I had never done that before. 15:27.874 --> 15:28.695 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course. 15:29.436 --> 15:30.277 [SPEAKER_01]: When is a DM? 15:30.297 --> 15:31.578 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you in that situation? 15:31.678 --> 15:31.958 [SPEAKER_01]: Never. 15:32.259 --> 15:33.720 [SPEAKER_01]: Usually you are the DM. 15:34.922 --> 15:48.095 [SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty rare to find yourself in a situation where there are multiple DMs, let alone multiple DMs, DMing the same story, and let alone multiple DMs, DMing the same story from a different perspective. 15:48.115 --> 15:52.480 [SPEAKER_01]: So you all have to core. 15:52.500 --> 15:54.282 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just so 15:54.262 --> 16:06.795 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like the first year I did, it was definitely a sensation of like constantly trying to make sure that I'm not drowning and then this year is when like, oh, okay, I knew how to relax. 16:06.855 --> 16:08.556 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew how to float a little bit. 16:08.576 --> 16:13.481 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew how to tread water when I needed like this year is when I was like, okay, I know what this is now. 16:13.521 --> 16:19.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of know what to expect and I know how to hold myself in these situations. 16:19.287 --> 16:24.275 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like standing on that baseball field and get in curveballs from different directions. 16:24.775 --> 16:25.837 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, okay, hold on. 16:25.877 --> 16:27.740 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard enough to hit one curveball. 16:27.780 --> 16:29.403 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I've got three coming at me. 16:29.463 --> 16:31.125 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not sure what I'm doing. 16:31.185 --> 16:36.153 [SPEAKER_01]: But I, I'm just going to keep swinging because I got to do something, you know, and it, and it works. 16:36.413 --> 16:38.296 [SPEAKER_01]: It actually by the end of it, you start hit and stuff. 16:38.316 --> 16:39.959 [SPEAKER_01]: And and things start start moving. 16:40.019 --> 16:42.763 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's, yeah, it's a really interesting, 16:42.743 --> 16:44.686 [SPEAKER_01]: And crazy experience. 16:45.106 --> 16:49.752 [SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like again, it's a super unique one as a DM to find yourself in. 16:49.812 --> 16:53.197 [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel very lucky that I kind of have that under my belt. 16:53.657 --> 16:54.358 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 16:54.418 --> 17:01.748 [SPEAKER_03]: As much of a challenge as it sounds like it was, it also seemed like such a rush. 17:01.728 --> 17:17.564 [SPEAKER_03]: It looked like a really exhilarating and fun thing to do, and as, as a forever DM myself, I had a lot of admiration for you all being able to pull something like that off, and I was also a little envious and like itch it for like, man, I want to do something like this too. 17:17.604 --> 17:26.453 [SPEAKER_03]: This looks so fun, and I'm sure that having that under your belt is a really cool growth point. 17:26.433 --> 17:32.721 [SPEAKER_03]: and like thing to look at as like a gauntlet you've overcome and a thing that you've grown and changed from. 17:32.781 --> 17:48.542 [SPEAKER_03]: Are there any other logistical things about the dungeons and cabins event that really challenged you or pushed you in a unique way that you feel like your personal playstyle has gotten better from as a result of? 17:48.792 --> 17:54.242 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so many ways, man, it's such a beast of an event. 17:54.623 --> 17:56.546 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really non-stop, you know. 17:56.647 --> 18:10.913 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the biggest challenges of DNC to be honest is really just like endurance, like just making it to the end is a feat in and of itself, not only like energy level, but your voice. 18:11.234 --> 18:11.374 [SPEAKER_01]: I think 18:11.354 --> 18:37.918 [SPEAKER_01]: We all lost our voice by the end of year one, you know, and year two was kind of similar, but we came prepared, you know, we had our T, we had our cough drops, we had our Xs and our Ys and all these things and like we knew that we needed to pace ourselves this time in a way that we didn't really understand I think in year one. 18:37.898 --> 19:01.088 [SPEAKER_01]: You're hanging out and you're chatting and you're laughing and you're up late and you're playing games and there are just there's just so much going on at all times so that definitely is a big one of like how to survive DNC as a DM is like pace yourself because you've got to make it all the way to that finish line, you know, but other than that, I mean literally like the 19:01.068 --> 19:22.637 [SPEAKER_01]: organization of keeping all your ducks in a row and making sure that your table and you as a DM are not the reason things go off the rails for someone else, which to be fair, I do think was already kind of one of my strengths as a DM coming into DNC, but something that definitely has been honed. 19:22.617 --> 19:43.765 [SPEAKER_01]: Since, especially there, is being able to look at your outline, your story, whatever it is you're trying to do here, and really try and identify the tent poles, you know, like what are the things that must be hit and what are the things that cannot be changed and what are the things that we can have some fun with. 19:43.745 --> 19:53.483 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what are the things that I can, if I don't get to it or if my players are uninterested and they want to go left when we thought they would go right, where are those moments in here? 19:53.783 --> 19:56.007 [SPEAKER_01]: If it was my own table, that's easy. 19:56.548 --> 19:57.310 [SPEAKER_01]: I wrote it, right? 19:57.370 --> 19:58.552 [SPEAKER_01]: I know what those things are. 19:58.652 --> 20:00.836 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, uh, for going left, well, whatever. 20:00.856 --> 20:07.508 [SPEAKER_01]: I only have to make it 30 more minutes, then we'll pick up where we left off next time and I'll be able to write something new for whatever's going on. 20:07.488 --> 20:19.942 [SPEAKER_01]: The left, not here, we've got to get to a marker so that we can start our next session tonight where all of our players are at the same place, you know, so like we have to get there. 20:20.002 --> 20:20.703 [SPEAKER_01]: We have to. 20:21.144 --> 20:29.293 [SPEAKER_01]: So it really is sort of like a master class of like what things are important and how do I keep my players? 20:29.273 --> 20:33.883 [SPEAKER_01]: I on the prize when they're having fun because you want to encourage that too. 20:34.003 --> 20:40.717 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a real, like all DMing, it's a real balancing act, but it almost feels like instead of being on the high beam. 20:40.757 --> 20:45.246 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like whoever that guy was that did the tightrope between the two skyscraper. 20:45.327 --> 20:45.908 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean? 20:45.948 --> 20:50.337 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the stakes just feel different in that setting. 20:50.317 --> 21:07.002 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really amazing and I don't know what it was like as a player, but I could imagine from a DM's perspective, it's really amazing when we land it and we've landed it every time, but it feels like every time we land it, we're like, wow, we really landed, didn't we? 21:07.022 --> 21:08.344 [SPEAKER_01]: That's amazing. 21:08.385 --> 21:10.047 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's pretty cool. 21:10.145 --> 21:14.131 [SPEAKER_03]: It was such a cool and unique experience as a player. 21:14.171 --> 21:31.495 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think I can't help myself as somebody who does a show, trying to look under the hood and thinking to myself logistically how everything was put together and what I could learn from it, while also just admiring the feet that it was. 21:31.555 --> 21:38.565 [SPEAKER_03]: One of the big things that really impressed me and that Sammy went into a little bit as being, a thing that was incredibly important 21:38.545 --> 21:52.037 [SPEAKER_03]: with how densely packed the schedule was and how tight the timing of everything was, running a very specifically timed session was a thing that she brought up as one of the most important things. 21:52.778 --> 21:56.781 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have any sort of experience running time events like this before? 21:56.821 --> 22:07.371 [SPEAKER_03]: I know she was saying that a lot of like conventions will run in similar ways and that that was a skill 22:07.351 --> 22:14.077 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's something that Sammy and I talked about before the first year, too, because she had DMed at conventions. 22:14.497 --> 22:25.127 [SPEAKER_01]: So what was kind of nice is that she had come in with that knowledge, you know, like she already kind of knew like this is what it takes to run a time session or this is what this feels like to run a time session. 22:25.627 --> 22:29.491 [SPEAKER_01]: And she had kind of walked me through it, but I had never done it before. 22:29.971 --> 22:37.358 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've not worked at these conventions in the same 22:37.338 --> 22:56.260 [SPEAKER_01]: My ingrained time management skills that I just have as a person, you know, like I do think that even if you're not running like the really strictly time things like a convention, which are very, very strict from what I hear and my understanding of it is, you know, you have to be done when that bell rings or whatever it is. 22:56.621 --> 22:59.845 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think all DMs, I'm sure you can relate to this too. 23:00.385 --> 23:04.510 [SPEAKER_01]: We kind of know how to operate on a time crunch because I know that 23:04.490 --> 23:13.929 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, my friend Todd or whatever, he's got to be out by 10 p.m. and I don't want to finish the game without him, so it's like whatever. 23:14.050 --> 23:21.184 [SPEAKER_01]: If we're starting at 7 p.m., I know we have to end at 10 because he's got to get home to his kids or whatever it might be, right? 23:21.265 --> 23:23.950 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like that experience I do think 23:23.930 --> 23:24.972 [SPEAKER_01]: field translates. 23:25.593 --> 23:33.687 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have the gravitas, of course, but it still has the element of like an order for us all to have fun in order for us all to accomplish what we want to. 23:34.007 --> 23:36.231 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we've got to be reasonable about this. 23:36.772 --> 23:42.462 [SPEAKER_01]: So I do think that, you know, as a DM, you still kind of have those skills going into it and just being like, okay. 23:42.442 --> 23:51.466 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not going to get to these bullet points, and that's fine, but let's really hit the big one and just get there because we need to for whatever the reason might be in this case. 23:51.527 --> 23:58.746 [SPEAKER_01]: It's because we've got to go play tug of war or whatever it is that we're doing today, you know, so 23:58.726 --> 24:04.091 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it is, that is kind of a stressful, can be a stressful aspect to what I think. 24:04.611 --> 24:22.448 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's, I think you bring up a good point that two a certain extent, it is a thing that most GMs contend with and even though I personally haven't done a convention type setting on anything that is timed in this way outside of, of course, dungeons and cabins. 24:22.508 --> 24:28.193 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, that is 24:28.173 --> 24:37.372 [SPEAKER_03]: I bet, especially when we bring on guests for the show a lot of the times we only have very specific windows where everyone's availability aligns. 24:37.453 --> 24:38.074 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 24:38.375 --> 24:40.319 [SPEAKER_03]: So there is a certain sense of importance there. 24:40.760 --> 24:42.664 [SPEAKER_03]: Part of it too is just my own personal style. 24:43.064 --> 24:48.055 [SPEAKER_03]: I jokingly describe myself as an incredibly impatient DM. 24:48.035 --> 24:49.597 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, interesting. 24:49.637 --> 24:55.485 [SPEAKER_03]: It's been funny to see how my sensibilities have rubbed off on my players. 24:55.986 --> 25:05.899 [SPEAKER_03]: When I see them in other circumstances and settings, I can tell that there's certain aspects of the way that we play our game that they've taken inspiration from and that they bring into their games. 25:06.459 --> 25:17.434 [SPEAKER_03]: But one of the fun things with a recent personal game where one of my players was GMing was they told me afterwards, 25:17.414 --> 25:20.059 [SPEAKER_03]: We need to slow things down here. 25:20.079 --> 25:25.828 [SPEAKER_03]: I like that by session two, but we are way further in than we are supposed to be at this point. 25:25.889 --> 25:38.370 [SPEAKER_03]: We have been blitzing through this and they were telling me I realize that it's because I'm playing at your pace and I For this to work this needs to slow down and take longer. 25:38.530 --> 25:42.477 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that I love that your player felt like they could say that to you though, too 25:42.457 --> 26:02.929 [SPEAKER_03]: you know what I mean yeah it was very enlightening for both of us and I was very flattered to hear that but it's it's a thing that I've clocked a little bit but it really put it in perspective to see it rub off on somebody else and how they were running yeah which to me like the funny thing to me was the pacing felt perfect yeah 26:02.909 --> 26:14.885 [SPEAKER_03]: It's the pacing that I prefer and am used to, but it's interesting to see how, like, stylistically, what things click for what GMs. 26:15.145 --> 26:20.532 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm sure you've bumped into that a little bit yourself in working with some of the other dungeons and cabins GMs. 26:21.033 --> 26:24.057 [SPEAKER_03]: Are there any instances like that that you've had? 26:24.037 --> 26:38.299 [SPEAKER_03]: where something about the play style of the people that you're working with has rubbed off on you or something that you've done, you've noticed somebody else picking up on like what lessons or stylistic preferences have you learned or taken from each other? 26:38.339 --> 26:50.938 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's, that's a really interesting question especially because like it's almost a little tricky because with dungeons and cabins we all sort of have to be on the same page about what we're doing. 26:51.121 --> 27:06.143 [SPEAKER_01]: the instances where you bring yourself to your table or to the story or to whatever might be, I don't think that those are necessarily limited, but they are a little isolated because it's like, I don't necessarily know what's happening at. 27:06.123 --> 27:09.690 [SPEAKER_01]: Joey's table, you know, or Sammy's table, for example. 27:09.970 --> 27:12.275 [SPEAKER_01]: I can kind of hear them if I listen. 27:12.315 --> 27:14.779 [SPEAKER_01]: I can kind of hear, hear what's going on over there. 27:14.819 --> 27:22.373 [SPEAKER_01]: But just from like chatting with them, yeah, I mean, I think that, I think what works really well too is that we all kind of have the shared goal. 27:22.393 --> 27:24.578 [SPEAKER_01]: We all kind of know what we're here for and what we're doing. 27:25.058 --> 27:29.667 [SPEAKER_01]: But talking with them about the kinds of games that they're running or even when we're, 27:30.271 --> 27:38.078 [SPEAKER_01]: And I won't say anything, but when we're split-balling for future storylines or whatever, you know that might come up at Dungeons and Cabins. 27:38.639 --> 27:44.444 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think that there's a lot of kind of fun overlap between us all in terms of like our inspirations. 27:44.564 --> 27:54.013 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that some folks there are really inspired by like Japanese culture and anime, you know, video games kind of like that world, which is really cool. 27:54.413 --> 27:58.557 [SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of enjoy those things, but that's not really like me. 27:58.537 --> 28:13.896 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, so like that is something that's kind of fun to see their influence, you know, in these stories and just in our spitballing and stuff like that and I know Sammy like she runs a lot of at least recently has been running a lot of superhero stuff so like she's kind of like in that world right now at the moment and 28:13.876 --> 28:33.724 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I tend to kind of gravitate towards like horror as a genre in a lot of the stuff that I do like I mentioned Monster of the Week and things like that and even when I'm not running a horror game I almost can't help but infuse a little bit in there you know like no matter what it is I can't help but have that. 28:33.704 --> 28:48.810 [SPEAKER_01]: Yuri shadow in the background or you hear footsteps creeping up a height like I just can't help myself so yeah I mean I think that we all definitely are coming at it from different angles but it is cool to see kind of how all these things sort of interact and influence each other. 28:48.790 --> 28:58.711 [SPEAKER_01]: Something that really impresses me about Sammy, which is so funny because it's like her thing, doesn't mean the cabin's like, it's, you know, it's a collaborative thing, but it's Sammy's thing. 28:59.172 --> 29:03.641 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen this just from overhearing her table or talking with her about her sessions. 29:03.961 --> 29:09.533 [SPEAKER_01]: She's very willing to let the players kind of do whatever. 29:09.513 --> 29:20.636 [SPEAKER_01]: like, do a point where I'm like, wow, I'm kind of amazed that you didn't steer them back on track, like, you just let them do whatever this thing was that they wanted to do, because they wanted to do it. 29:20.857 --> 29:28.753 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, I really, really admire that, you know, because I feel like as a DM, sometimes you have that impulse of like, ah, that's not the... 29:28.733 --> 29:44.548 [SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing over there, guys, or whatever it might be, or like, I don't know what's over there, or that's not what I thought we're going to do, which of course is something that all DMs grapple with and that we all kind of learn to get over pretty rapidly, but from my perspective, she's particularly open. 29:44.528 --> 29:47.153 [SPEAKER_01]: to whatever these players are going to be doing. 29:47.393 --> 29:54.786 [SPEAKER_01]: So that is something that I can get, especially at DNC, a little bit like I got a script, not a script, but I got an outline. 29:55.027 --> 29:56.129 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to stick to this outline. 29:56.289 --> 30:03.482 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I do think that that is cool to see Sammy be so open. 30:03.462 --> 30:07.488 [SPEAKER_01]: and be like, oh, okay, you can sort of settle in here a little bit. 30:07.888 --> 30:17.081 [SPEAKER_01]: There is room for that fun, there is room for that improv and that kind of silliness, or whatever it might be that my players want to kind of explore, you know? 30:17.221 --> 30:19.845 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think that that stuff is really fun. 30:20.426 --> 30:25.032 [SPEAKER_03]: I've got like three follow-up questions for that. 30:25.012 --> 30:28.436 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to try to be disciplined and hone these in a little bit. 30:28.757 --> 30:34.063 [SPEAKER_03]: There is one that is just a personal curiosity that I will continue to follow on. 30:34.383 --> 30:45.737 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't necessarily mean to keep going back to the well of the rotating GM part of the game, but it is such an interesting concept to me and from the player side of things for me, 30:45.717 --> 30:57.870 [SPEAKER_03]: It was really interesting because it gave me an insight and window into, okay, I can kind of see what the experience at this other table was like based on how this GM is interacting with us. 30:58.610 --> 31:13.446 [SPEAKER_03]: Was it the same in reverse for you as a GM jumping to other tables, getting a little bit of an insight and window into, ah, so this is how a Liam's game must have been going, or this is how mehanna's game was like, this is what the feel of this table is. 31:13.426 --> 31:14.127 [SPEAKER_01]: I think so. 31:14.147 --> 31:21.636 [SPEAKER_01]: 100% because like I said before, it's like, I know them all because we've been hanging out for the last few days, but I don't know how they play. 31:21.756 --> 31:23.459 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what their characters are. 31:23.759 --> 31:33.291 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you see them, you know, to them, it's just a continuation like they're they're still going from right where they left off and to me, I'm coming in with no. 31:33.271 --> 31:34.775 [SPEAKER_01]: foundation here at all. 31:35.095 --> 31:46.242 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of fun because you also get to see their little, their doing inside jokes that I don't know, you know, or like they're like referencing things that have happened at that table that I have no idea what they're talking about. 31:46.483 --> 31:51.094 [SPEAKER_01]: So it is kind of fun to just kind of be like, okay, that's like the culture of this table. 31:51.074 --> 32:02.780 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, or this table is really like min-maxy, like they want to like make sure that they are like really utilizing every moment, everything they can do to the fullest extent of it. 32:03.021 --> 32:05.867 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's another table that's like, is there a stick line around? 32:05.887 --> 32:06.869 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to hit them with a stick. 32:06.889 --> 32:08.212 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, what are you talking? 32:08.372 --> 32:09.555 [SPEAKER_01]: You're a sword! 32:09.535 --> 32:13.141 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, sorting your hands, you know, but it's just like, okay, well, that's the culture here. 32:13.181 --> 32:19.592 [SPEAKER_01]: They want to do silly things and they want to feel like they're thinking outside the box and come up with more creative solutions. 32:19.612 --> 32:20.794 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't want to be on the page. 32:20.814 --> 32:22.257 [SPEAKER_01]: They don't want to be on their paper, you know? 32:22.437 --> 32:27.686 [SPEAKER_01]: So 100% yeah, you can get an insight there into the different tables for sure. 32:27.726 --> 32:28.527 [SPEAKER_01]: The same exactly. 32:28.567 --> 32:30.711 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think I ever got to DM for your table. 32:31.072 --> 32:31.833 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so. 32:32.073 --> 32:33.636 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I started. 32:33.616 --> 32:36.420 [SPEAKER_01]: after you guys are then ended before, if I remember. 32:36.460 --> 32:39.986 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was mostly just the timing of how everything was going to that point. 32:40.026 --> 32:46.676 [SPEAKER_03]: We were going late enough that it felt like it got to a point of okay, we got to pull the plug here, so everybody back to your originals. 32:46.937 --> 32:50.843 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the other consideration is that you're doing this at midnight, midnight. 32:51.223 --> 32:53.948 [SPEAKER_01]: We've been playing for five hours already. 32:54.108 --> 32:57.413 [SPEAKER_01]: It's midnight and we're still playing and it's like, 32:57.393 --> 33:03.619 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, that is definitely another piece of the puzzle that in terms of our emotional state. 33:04.179 --> 33:17.831 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're all so ready to be like to just go there because we're like I'm drained and it's been three days of this and it's like all I can do is leave it all on the court at this point because I just got nothing left, you know, it's crazy. 33:17.991 --> 33:26.539 [SPEAKER_03]: What a crazy thing we do to transition a little bit from 33:26.519 --> 33:29.141 [SPEAKER_03]: with how big of a marker dungeons and cabins is. 33:29.202 --> 33:34.567 [SPEAKER_03]: It's clearly left a huge impact and put you through the ringer through all of these different challenges. 33:34.967 --> 33:40.232 [SPEAKER_03]: Are there any situations like that in your home games or in your work as a professional GM? 33:40.472 --> 33:56.087 [SPEAKER_03]: Are there any particular games that have stood out to you that have pushed you in a certain way, lessons that you've learned, stuff that is particularly made a strong impact in a similar way to dungeons and cabins, where 33:56.067 --> 33:59.250 [SPEAKER_03]: or that you've brought the DNC experience back into? 33:59.290 --> 34:07.638 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I feel very fortunate that so many of my games are really lovely and like I just really genuinely enjoy them. 34:07.858 --> 34:13.523 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is good, you should, you know, when you get to get to the game, we should be having fun, we should be having a good time. 34:14.004 --> 34:21.791 [SPEAKER_01]: So okay, so like you mentioned before, like in addition to doing startplaying.game stuff, I also do like professional GM and I can be booked for stuff, right? 34:21.851 --> 34:23.172 [SPEAKER_01]: So I have a, 34:23.152 --> 34:28.978 [SPEAKER_01]: game that I've run now three times for a birthday event for a boy. 34:28.998 --> 34:35.726 [SPEAKER_01]: I started when he was 15, I was hired to run a game for his birthday, and they've had me back every year, and this is right third year. 34:35.966 --> 34:50.982 [SPEAKER_01]: So I only bring that one up because if there's anything else that's going to put you through the ringer as a DM, it's running games for young audiences, because they will do 34:51.130 --> 35:08.203 [SPEAKER_01]: the wildest thing you can think of with no thoughts given, or worse, they'll talk about it, and decide, yeah, we want to do the craziest thing we can think of right now for sure, because that's what we want to do. 35:08.224 --> 35:13.594 [SPEAKER_01]: So I do think like those games like running games for teenagers, I think is like 35:13.574 --> 35:19.481 [SPEAKER_01]: to me, one of the more fun things I get to do, actually, and I've worked with kids a lot. 35:19.522 --> 35:26.891 [SPEAKER_01]: I've worked with students of all ages for many, many, many years, so I'm pretty familiar with this age group, going into it, which does help. 35:27.091 --> 35:35.742 [SPEAKER_01]: But playing and running games for them is always fun, because it's like, this is an example of how wild and weird things can be. 35:35.802 --> 35:41.129 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, one of our years, I always talk to the boy who's birthday it is to see like, what kind of game do you want this year? 35:41.169 --> 35:42.130 [SPEAKER_01]: What do we want to play? 35:42.110 --> 36:08.353 [SPEAKER_01]: And the one we did last year was like a survival horror set in like an animal crossing style village interesting yeah right so they all wanted to play like woodland preachers You know people and they were just lived in this really cute little town that the little harvest festival you know like just silly little animals and then it became this survival horror experience for them 36:08.333 --> 36:11.919 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of them, I came in with characters, you know, that they could pick from. 36:12.400 --> 36:16.968 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of them chose to play the Warlock, just pulled it out of my pile of characters. 36:17.609 --> 36:23.119 [SPEAKER_01]: And then as we were playing, she was, I think really interested in this idea of a patron. 36:23.480 --> 36:33.177 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't think she really understood that when she picked the character, but then as we were playing it would be like, oh, well, you're a Warlock, you have magic because like this thing is giving you its power or whatever it might be. 36:33.157 --> 36:38.044 [SPEAKER_01]: And she kept referencing it and it became like a fairly funny part of her character. 36:38.384 --> 36:48.339 [SPEAKER_01]: So then by the end, when I was introducing the big bad, you know, like, in a moment of collaborative storytelling, I decided that that big bad was going to be her patron. 36:48.419 --> 36:49.020 [SPEAKER_01]: That's fun. 36:49.200 --> 36:53.005 [SPEAKER_01]: Because she found that interesting as a story went along, you know? 36:53.045 --> 36:54.548 [SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't plan for that. 36:54.608 --> 36:56.991 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even know that she'd be going to have a warlock at the table. 36:57.252 --> 37:00.396 [SPEAKER_01]: But I was kind of like, I think that this will be fun for her and for the table. 37:00.376 --> 37:04.562 [SPEAKER_01]: And boy was it because she immediately like started portraying the party. 37:04.883 --> 37:07.948 [SPEAKER_01]: She was like, well, that's my taste like I don't know guys. 37:08.028 --> 37:11.453 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I have to side with my patron. 37:11.874 --> 37:17.963 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was just so fun and it just became this whole like they were like in a fun way because I think PvP can give 37:17.943 --> 37:19.004 [SPEAKER_01]: Bad fast. 37:19.085 --> 37:28.718 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you don't really trust to the people you're playing with, but I just felt like these friends like they were really down And then I read that and luckily I was right honestly. 37:28.738 --> 37:45.942 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a risk But it worked out really well, and they were just so in it and they were just like yelling at each other And I'm gonna kill her because she like they're like I should be killing the big bad But they're like no, I'm gonna kill my friend because she betrayed us, you know, and it just became this really fun and kind of silly fights 37:45.922 --> 37:47.324 [SPEAKER_01]: that they had there at the end. 37:47.444 --> 37:56.497 [SPEAKER_01]: And then of course it ended with, um, I don't remember how I did it, but I'm sure I planted some seeds of this and that in our head of like, oh, your patron is manipulating you or something. 37:56.918 --> 38:05.230 [SPEAKER_01]: And then she, of course, at the end betrayed her patron and then saved the day and then they kind of like rekindled their friendships in world or whatever it might be. 38:05.294 --> 38:13.204 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I mean, like running games for teens to me is so rewarding and funny and like they're just so weird and wild. 38:13.745 --> 38:26.001 [SPEAKER_01]: And to an end degree from what you do normally, I'm sure you feel this when you write something down as a DM and you're like, well, we'll see if my players actually do this or but for teens, it's like, I don't even know if they're going to be playing this game at all. 38:26.182 --> 38:28.725 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we might be doing something totally different today. 38:28.785 --> 38:29.786 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea. 38:29.887 --> 38:31.689 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just really fun for me. 38:31.729 --> 38:34.052 [SPEAKER_01]: It's always very engaging, I think. 38:34.100 --> 38:58.875 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, I, I've had a little bit of experience playing with people who are like brand brand new and I feel like it's a similar kind of mall park that's my favorite to I love brand new folks who don't know what they're doing yet like who don't know how to read a character sheet and like do things quote well because they're just reacting they're just trying to tell the story they don't know how to do it yet it's just to me that is so fun. 38:58.855 --> 39:07.484 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I find it's really easy to get locked into a pattern of doing things in ways that have worked before. 39:07.624 --> 39:13.129 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, especially like the longer you've been at the game, you know what things work, what things don't. 39:13.390 --> 39:18.114 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's really easy to get kind of siloed in the more that you've played. 39:18.154 --> 39:28.845 [SPEAKER_03]: And I love the breath of fresh air that new players bring with the wildly outside 39:28.825 --> 39:29.626 [SPEAKER_03]: things go. 39:29.646 --> 39:30.226 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 39:30.367 --> 39:39.616 [SPEAKER_03]: I know for myself when I was first starting off, some of my most creative swings were when I was first starting to play and didn't really grasp the rules. 39:39.836 --> 39:40.396 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 39:40.416 --> 39:41.718 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's so cool. 39:41.758 --> 39:54.310 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I remember to the feeling like the reason that I fell in love with D&D, you know, from what I can remember is like that feeling like a video game would never let me do this, 39:54.290 --> 39:57.175 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never been able to do this before. 39:57.195 --> 39:59.159 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I can just climb any building. 39:59.619 --> 40:05.830 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, just crazy stuff like that, you're like, that seems so simple now, because you're like, well, yeah, it's a build, climb it, whatever. 40:06.291 --> 40:08.795 [SPEAKER_01]: But at the time, I was just like, my mind was blown. 40:08.855 --> 40:11.200 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, there's no invisible wall anywhere. 40:11.520 --> 40:18.913 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, the moment that that unlocks for people for the first time, I think, is just such a cool moment to see, to see them be like, 40:18.893 --> 40:22.579 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I guess I would want to light the building on fire. 40:22.619 --> 40:23.500 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, cool. 40:23.560 --> 40:24.442 [SPEAKER_01]: So how do you do it? 40:24.702 --> 40:25.283 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, wait, what? 40:25.303 --> 40:27.987 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, you want to light the building on fire? 40:28.048 --> 40:29.290 [SPEAKER_01]: You can, there's a torch right there. 40:29.350 --> 40:30.011 [SPEAKER_01]: I described it. 40:30.111 --> 40:30.652 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you do? 40:30.832 --> 40:39.666 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and they're like, oh my god, I'm going to burn this whole town down now because I can't, you know, it's like that cool moment where they realize they can literally do anything. 40:40.007 --> 40:40.868 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that. 40:40.848 --> 40:48.279 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember very specifically, it is vivid in my mind what that moment was for me, tell I must know. 40:48.319 --> 40:51.304 [SPEAKER_03]: So I first started playing in college. 40:51.784 --> 40:58.975 [SPEAKER_03]: I had a friend who would run stuff in D&D and Pathfinder and did a couple of one shots. 40:58.955 --> 41:27.966 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember very specifically this one shot that I was taking a chance on and just like yeah I'll give it a shot it seems like something I might be interested in and it was a one shot where he had a bunch of pre-generated characters for us and so we just kind of picked it random I got this half giant barbarian with a right shield and sword and I remember the moment for me that I had that click of like oh I could never do this in a video game but like the group story 41:27.946 --> 41:37.623 [SPEAKER_03]: really just limited by your own imagination was it was our first combat and we had taken care of the enemy's close range. 41:37.643 --> 41:44.875 [SPEAKER_03]: There was an enemy that was really far away that was like had one of our party members cornered. 41:44.855 --> 42:11.605 [SPEAKER_03]: And I remember very specifically on the battle map we were using a whiteboard next bow marker and there was just some cosmetics put down of like, oh, you're in a clearing there's some trees there's some bushes there's some rocks and all of that and I happened to be standing right next to a cosmetically put tree and I didn't have any sort of range weapons it was my turn to go I was not gonna be able to be fast enough to get there in time and I asked like 42:11.905 --> 42:16.713 [SPEAKER_00]: This is stupid, but I love when a sentence starts with, this is stupid. 42:16.793 --> 42:24.306 [SPEAKER_03]: To me is always like, oh, here we go, but like I'm a half giant and I'm standing next to this kind of undersized tree. 42:24.346 --> 42:34.082 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, I pull the tree back, wedge my sword in it and launch it to try to hit this enemy over there. 42:34.062 --> 42:39.869 [SPEAKER_03]: And then like, but she has just said absolutely it's going to be difficult, but yeah roll for it. 42:39.949 --> 42:40.470 [SPEAKER_03]: And we'll see. 42:40.570 --> 42:41.771 [SPEAKER_03]: And it did succeed. 42:41.791 --> 42:57.690 [SPEAKER_03]: But regardless of whether that had succeeded or not, the fact that I was allowed to do that was my eye opening moment of like, Oh, I love the possibilities that these allow for this is a stupid bit, but it felt so rewarding and freeing to be able to act on it. 42:57.670 --> 43:02.121 [SPEAKER_03]: I love those kinds of odd ball outside of the box poles. 43:02.462 --> 43:10.761 [SPEAKER_03]: Especially when I'm GMing, I light up whenever my players take a swing like that and do something that I never could have seen coming. 43:10.822 --> 43:12.165 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the best stuff. 43:12.305 --> 43:14.751 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the best stuff every time. 43:14.731 --> 43:36.722 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like that's why I said like when a sentence starts this is stupid, I'm already on board because those moments like you said whether they succeed or not, that's the moment we're talking about after this, you know, like for sure, that's the story you're telling right now, however many years later, and I think that's what I'm getting at to with the younger audiences is like, they don't say this is stupid. 43:36.702 --> 43:56.145 [SPEAKER_01]: they just go straight to the thing you'd like that's the they don't have that filter that our adult brains put in front of it of like this is stupid but no they're just in like okay i'm gonna use this tree as a catapult okay what are all for that is there a catapult skill no that's figuring out you know like yeah it's just so fun 43:56.125 --> 44:00.031 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's, I find it similar to improv in general. 44:00.151 --> 44:16.075 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember when I was on my high school improv team, one of the things that art instructor was saying in trying to help us work through not shutting ourselves down, getting out of our own way and like bringing down that filter was a point that 44:16.055 --> 44:27.453 [SPEAKER_03]: younger children tend to be naturally better improvisers because they don't have that voice in the back of their head that says, no, this is stupid, totally 100%. 44:28.314 --> 44:29.816 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's something that we have to relearn. 44:30.497 --> 44:40.172 [SPEAKER_03]: So for anybody wanting to try to approach things the same way that you do of being a professional GM or trying to get involved with an event like Dungeons & Cappens, 44:40.152 --> 44:46.864 [SPEAKER_03]: What advice would you give to somebody trying to venture into that or to put it a different way? 44:46.905 --> 44:56.843 [SPEAKER_03]: Is there any information you know now that you wish you knew when you first started doing professional GMing or doing dungeons and cabins and things like that? 44:57.204 --> 44:57.925 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah 44:57.905 --> 45:01.530 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's definitely tricky, you know. 45:01.550 --> 45:03.173 [SPEAKER_01]: I like all creative endeavors. 45:03.613 --> 45:06.177 [SPEAKER_01]: There's not a lot of infrastructure there for you. 45:06.197 --> 45:11.925 [SPEAKER_01]: I would definitely direct people to start playing Doc games, which is kind of where I started. 45:12.426 --> 45:23.862 [SPEAKER_01]: And I still run games there regularly all the time, because it's just a really great resource to meet players and to meet, you wanna meet the community of players 45:24.297 --> 45:29.845 [SPEAKER_01]: that are okay with paying money to play D&D because that's not all of them. 45:30.485 --> 45:37.515 [SPEAKER_01]: And those who are not in that particular part of the venn diagram will let you know that they are not part of that venn diagram. 45:37.555 --> 45:38.777 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's okay, right? 45:38.797 --> 45:41.040 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we've all been playing D&D for free our whole lives. 45:41.461 --> 45:43.143 [SPEAKER_01]: If you have friends, I say free. 45:43.243 --> 45:44.064 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to pay for the books. 45:44.084 --> 45:45.646 [SPEAKER_01]: There's somebody's got to buy the pizza. 45:45.827 --> 45:49.211 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone's got to buy the pizza, someone's bringing in beer, whatever it might be, right? 45:49.331 --> 45:49.832 [SPEAKER_01]: So, 45:50.285 --> 45:55.490 [SPEAKER_01]: I would definitely say, focus your attention on the people you can actually get, which is not all of them, right? 45:55.870 --> 46:09.123 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I would go even more specific, which is something that I am very grateful that I kind of decided for myself kind of early when I was doing this, which is that it's not just about finding the people, it's about finding your people. 46:09.163 --> 46:18.452 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's something that I'm really grateful that I kind of clocked and was like, well, I don't want to do this if I'm not having fun, because it's hard. 46:18.567 --> 46:21.591 [SPEAKER_01]: it's hard and it's a lot of work and it can be stressful. 46:21.651 --> 46:22.833 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a creative life. 46:22.973 --> 46:25.036 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like not easy to do, right? 46:25.316 --> 46:26.938 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is why it's worth paying for, of course. 46:27.519 --> 46:38.854 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like one of those things that I realized I was looking at other DMs and kind of like the way that they were maybe building their communities, which was really about numbers. 46:38.834 --> 46:40.277 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is a fine way to do it. 46:40.377 --> 46:51.517 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like I'm going to get as many people to look at my games as possible or as many people who will be wanting to get me as possible, whatever that might be, I think that's great. 46:51.597 --> 46:54.823 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's super important because you need to be able to make a living. 46:55.183 --> 47:03.458 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think I was in a position where I had this other job that I liked that I was enjoying and I kind of decided for this that I would take my time. 47:03.438 --> 47:30.694 [SPEAKER_01]: time with it a little bit definitely you know takes a little longer but at the same time the community that I've been building for myself of players that play with me frequently regularly often are really great people and I really love playing with them and they make me happy and they're fun and they provide more to me than just like an income you know what I mean and I think that that mindset not only has allowed me to 47:30.674 --> 47:37.485 [SPEAKER_01]: get my tables full of players that I really love playing with but also I've made really wonderful friends doing this. 47:37.926 --> 47:53.391 [SPEAKER_01]: I get so much out of them in terms of just like fun conversation or they send me links to things that they know I'm interested in because they care about me too and the way that I care about them and you know in a fun like kind of friendly way and it's like 47:53.371 --> 47:54.032 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 47:54.052 --> 47:59.623 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think that it's not the fastest way to build a career doing Dungeons and Dragons. 47:59.643 --> 48:03.050 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's been really lovely and it's been really rewarding in that way. 48:03.090 --> 48:13.249 [SPEAKER_01]: And now I have people like Joey and Sammy and Aliam and the other DMs that I know I can kind of lean on and talk to and go to and vice versa. 48:13.290 --> 48:16.155 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so it's like these relationships. 48:16.135 --> 48:28.142 [SPEAKER_01]: So similar to acting, you know, I also am a professional actor and it's like, that world is such a world of relationships as well, but I think something that you learn and doing it is like, it's not about commodifying your relationships. 48:28.222 --> 48:29.264 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just about building them. 48:29.325 --> 48:31.309 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just about being there for the people and back. 48:31.289 --> 48:36.075 [SPEAKER_01]: genuinely being interested in them and supporting them and caring about them and then vice versa. 48:36.095 --> 48:45.788 [SPEAKER_01]: They do the same to you and you just help each other out and you're just slowly start to build and go a little bit further and take a slightly bigger step than you did last time or whatever it might be. 48:46.309 --> 48:52.217 [SPEAKER_01]: So I definitely think that start playing doc games is a great, great place to start out, you know. 48:52.467 --> 48:56.454 [SPEAKER_01]: uh, just to start meeting folks and getting your games out there, whatever it might be. 48:56.494 --> 49:05.892 [SPEAKER_01]: And then of course, just do the things that are fun for you, you know, run the games that you would want to join, run the games that you want to play. 49:05.912 --> 49:09.438 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that if you build it, he will come kind of thing. 49:09.478 --> 49:11.763 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, just got to go for it, I think. 49:12.263 --> 49:13.125 [SPEAKER_03]: But that is, 49:13.105 --> 49:14.387 [SPEAKER_03]: fantastic advice. 49:14.627 --> 49:31.553 [SPEAKER_03]: I love your emphasis on chemistry because that is group dynamics and group chemistry can be such a healing thing when you've got really solid group together and I feel like it can't be understated how important it is to find 49:31.533 --> 49:38.906 [SPEAKER_03]: and like foster a group that you really mesh well with and enjoy playing the game with. 49:39.407 --> 49:56.157 [SPEAKER_03]: I know there's the it's kind of a cliche refrain that I see online a bunch of no D&D is better than bad D&D so making sure that you've got a good group that you really enjoy spending time with is so crucial. 49:56.137 --> 49:57.318 [SPEAKER_01]: So crucial. 49:57.378 --> 50:19.438 [SPEAKER_01]: We've all been at bad tables, you know, like sometimes it's the DM I've had bad DMs in my life and sometimes it's the just the people you're playing with are just not your people, you know, like you said it's just chemistry like you want to have folks that like when you making offering at the table of like, hey, there's a storyline or there's a scene here maybe that you think would be fun for you. 50:19.538 --> 50:22.761 [SPEAKER_01]: You want players that are going to pick that up and go, this is fun for me too. 50:23.261 --> 50:24.102 [SPEAKER_01]: Heck yeah. 50:24.082 --> 50:32.211 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's go talk to this dude, you know, or whatever it might be like, whatever that scene is, you want them to be on the same page as you I think. 50:32.751 --> 50:36.675 [SPEAKER_03]: So that basically comes to the end of my questions. 50:37.096 --> 50:39.378 [SPEAKER_03]: Before we wrap up, I just want to throw it back to you. 50:39.398 --> 50:52.772 [SPEAKER_03]: Is there any other miscellaneous things that you want to add or bring up any discussion points that you want to cover, things that you want to make sure get touched on and aren't left on said? 50:52.752 --> 50:55.636 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, don't open a door. 50:55.716 --> 50:57.398 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to open, Dan. 50:57.579 --> 51:00.963 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, you know, I think that we covered it. 51:01.003 --> 51:03.246 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that again, I just, I've said it. 51:03.287 --> 51:09.415 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure many times, but to reiterate, I'm so grateful for the whole Dungeons and Cabins team. 51:09.635 --> 51:11.598 [SPEAKER_01]: I think everyone there is so wonderful. 51:11.818 --> 51:13.420 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, talk about community building. 51:13.501 --> 51:15.283 [SPEAKER_01]: They are, I mean, that's like, 51:15.263 --> 51:38.065 [SPEAKER_01]: Next level they're so good at it because they're really genuine and cool folks over there like I just have really loved spending time with all of them and you know me and a Liam and Sammy and Joey have done it now both years and it's just like so cool to be building that relationship with them and they're so much fun and I get to meet awesome people like you 51:38.045 --> 51:39.508 [SPEAKER_01]: at places like that too. 51:39.668 --> 51:41.651 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's just been such a rewarding thing. 51:41.691 --> 51:45.699 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm sure your listeners will be sick of hearing about it. 51:45.759 --> 51:46.640 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's so cool. 51:46.680 --> 51:47.502 [SPEAKER_01]: Check it out guys. 51:47.602 --> 51:48.544 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so cool. 51:48.724 --> 51:49.706 [SPEAKER_01]: It really, really is. 51:49.746 --> 51:57.279 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just really, really glad that I get to even have my small little piece of that puzzle, I think, is just so awesome. 51:57.640 --> 51:57.980 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it. 51:58.401 --> 51:58.922 [SPEAKER_03]: Boom. 51:58.902 --> 52:01.267 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you again so much for all of that. 52:01.307 --> 52:03.391 [SPEAKER_03]: This has been a fantastic conversation. 52:03.471 --> 52:06.377 [SPEAKER_03]: And I really appreciate you taking the time to come by and chat with me. 52:06.437 --> 52:07.499 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Dan. 52:07.519 --> 52:08.741 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for having me, man. 52:08.781 --> 52:10.124 [SPEAKER_01]: This has been so, so fun. 52:10.144 --> 52:10.725 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad. 52:10.845 --> 52:12.208 [SPEAKER_01]: Even just a chat with you again. 52:12.228 --> 52:17.198 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even if, you know, we weren't recording it just to hang out and be with you has just been so nice. 52:17.238 --> 52:18.460 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, thank you for having me. 52:18.480 --> 52:19.041 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad. 52:19.081 --> 52:20.404 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so glad I got to be here. 52:20.384 --> 52:21.205 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. 52:21.565 --> 52:27.051 [SPEAKER_03]: As we're closing out, can you remind our listeners one more time where they can find you and the projects you're working on? 52:27.451 --> 52:31.015 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, you can always find me uh, start playing dot games. 52:31.435 --> 52:37.461 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a website gameswithzack.com, which can also get you there to my start playing profile. 52:37.842 --> 52:44.909 [SPEAKER_01]: Other than that though, you know, I'm usually performing somewhere around Los Angeles, I'm always trying to do theater all over the place. 52:44.949 --> 52:48.973 [SPEAKER_01]: So keep an eye on 52:48.953 --> 52:49.534 [SPEAKER_03]: Awesome. 52:49.754 --> 52:53.778 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, uh, links to Zack's projects will be in the episode description. 52:53.799 --> 52:55.721 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you again for chatting with me. 52:55.761 --> 52:58.824 [SPEAKER_03]: And thank you all of you for listening. 52:59.305 --> 53:00.206 [SPEAKER_03]: One more time, everybody. 53:00.406 --> 53:03.470 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Danger Dan jerseys, the GM and host of D&D Ark. 53:03.910 --> 53:08.255 [SPEAKER_03]: I've been chatting with Zack Maseys and this has been table talk. 53:08.776 --> 53:11.839 [SPEAKER_03]: And I hope you enjoyed what we brought to the table. 53:14.941 --> 53:23.098 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Table Talk, created, hosted, and edited by myself, Danger Dan jurors, with artwork by Jordan Nelson. 53:23.619 --> 53:28.008 [SPEAKER_03]: Our guest this episode was Zach Maseez, links to his work can be found in the episode description. 53:28.529 --> 53:35.464 [SPEAKER_03]: If you're interested in being a guest on the show, reach out to us at dndarkpodcast at gmail.com. 53:35.444 --> 53:38.391 [SPEAKER_03]: Our theme song and outro was created by Jeremy Volucci. 53:38.411 --> 53:42.140 [SPEAKER_03]: Check out more of his works on Instagram at Jeremy Volucci underscore wreck of time. 53:42.582 --> 53:46.872 [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks again for listening and we'll see you next time we have a guest take a seat at the table.