WEBVTT 00:00.031 --> 00:11.627 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Culture Matters, a podcast exploring the intersection of faith and culture. 00:12.890 --> 00:35.202 [SPEAKER_01]: what's up guys it's just me it's just me in the studio but I have a friend with me today and I'm excited about that her name is Lindsey Jackson and you've not done this with us okay just making sure you know I was always on the podcast so there may have been previous me now you may have talked to somebody but you didn't will you have done podcasts 00:35.182 --> 00:37.205 [SPEAKER_03]: I have, I've done some podcasts in the whole floor. 00:37.266 --> 00:39.970 [SPEAKER_03]: This is like first day jetters to be here with you. 00:39.990 --> 00:42.434 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I know, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing, even though. 00:43.516 --> 00:43.897 [SPEAKER_01]: Here we are. 00:44.157 --> 00:46.000 [SPEAKER_01]: This is my second time to host by myself. 00:46.081 --> 00:49.106 [SPEAKER_01]: So, it's gotta go better in the first. 00:49.206 --> 00:50.628 [SPEAKER_01]: He's gonna go better in the first, for sure. 00:50.648 --> 00:51.530 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm already feeling good about it. 00:51.550 --> 00:51.770 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks. 00:52.431 --> 00:57.460 [SPEAKER_01]: And today, I'm excited because this is week one of our four weeks in advent. 00:57.440 --> 00:58.241 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 00:58.261 --> 01:01.085 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to have a few different conversations with a few different people. 01:01.246 --> 01:16.327 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited for this week is hope and then the next two weeks will be joy and love and then we'll close with peace and we'll have our friend Elizabeth with some back on so stay tuned to all of those but today we're talking about hope it's right and I specifically picked you. 01:16.748 --> 01:17.088 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. 01:17.469 --> 01:17.950 [SPEAKER_01]: Two days ago. 01:19.211 --> 01:21.675 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought of you a long time ago when I was thinking about hope. 01:22.583 --> 01:28.009 [SPEAKER_01]: I immediately was like, hope is something that is like wanting something that is not there. 01:28.629 --> 01:34.255 [SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of times hope comes with suffering, yeah, or with trials or with thorns, whatever you want to call them. 01:34.275 --> 01:47.089 [SPEAKER_01]: And so when I think of you, I think of someone who has had hope in the midst of suffering and has walked through really hard seasons and then turned around, given that to God and also turned around and taken that and helped other people who are walking through hard things. 01:47.069 --> 01:52.045 [SPEAKER_01]: And so maybe just to get us going, would you just kind of summarize for our listeners? 01:52.065 --> 01:54.593 [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit of your story, a little bit how you got here. 01:54.613 --> 01:55.375 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah. 01:55.523 --> 01:57.786 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I sure, well, thank you so much for saying that. 01:58.386 --> 02:02.070 [SPEAKER_03]: It's nothing that the Lord hasn't done in me to bring other people to him. 02:02.271 --> 02:03.372 [SPEAKER_03]: That is my greatest joy. 02:03.432 --> 02:04.813 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Lindsay. 02:04.833 --> 02:06.736 [SPEAKER_03]: I have been in believer most of my life. 02:06.896 --> 02:11.060 [SPEAKER_03]: My favorite story to tell about being young is I think I was around five or six. 02:11.561 --> 02:13.023 [SPEAKER_03]: I heard just the gospel story. 02:13.043 --> 02:16.246 [SPEAKER_03]: And I ran straight down the center aisle at church. 02:16.467 --> 02:16.787 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well. 02:16.807 --> 02:18.369 [SPEAKER_03]: And said, I want to come to Jesus. 02:18.569 --> 02:21.332 [SPEAKER_03]: I want to invite Jesus into the hall with my mom running behind me. 02:21.392 --> 02:23.134 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, let's eat come back! 02:23.114 --> 02:26.718 [SPEAKER_03]: So with that, it's not a better picture of just me running to Jesus. 02:26.818 --> 02:33.446 [SPEAKER_03]: That's exactly what I've been trying to do my whole life, not perfectly, but that is definitely just my salvation story. 02:33.787 --> 02:41.496 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, struggled typical struggles during middle school high school to turn to him, but really not a lot of suffering in my early years of life. 02:42.136 --> 02:45.240 [SPEAKER_03]: Got married, which Texas A&M, whoop. 02:45.220 --> 02:46.482 [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, did you know that? 02:46.622 --> 02:47.603 [SPEAKER_03]: I did not know that. 02:47.764 --> 02:48.945 [SPEAKER_03]: Are you wearing your face on her? 02:49.246 --> 02:52.751 [SPEAKER_03]: No, that started wearing it because Texas A&M is, you know, doing good at it. 02:52.771 --> 02:53.512 [SPEAKER_03]: Actually doing well. 02:53.612 --> 02:54.854 [SPEAKER_03]: When they're not I don't wear my ring. 02:55.074 --> 02:56.176 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like a superstitious thing. 02:56.356 --> 02:57.778 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that makes sense. 02:57.798 --> 03:00.863 [SPEAKER_03]: But met my husband, Brett actually in seventh grade. 03:01.023 --> 03:03.506 [SPEAKER_03]: So we knew each other before Texas A&M. 03:03.526 --> 03:03.707 [SPEAKER_03]: Cute. 03:04.047 --> 03:08.173 [SPEAKER_03]: Got married the weekend after we graduated and started a family. 03:08.153 --> 03:08.474 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow. 03:08.634 --> 03:11.679 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's the quick version of just becoming an adult. 03:12.140 --> 03:14.083 [SPEAKER_03]: All I wanted my entire life is kids. 03:14.324 --> 03:15.346 [SPEAKER_03]: I always wanted to be a mom. 03:15.566 --> 03:17.730 [SPEAKER_03]: That was something that was just deep in my heart. 03:17.890 --> 03:18.291 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 03:18.311 --> 03:19.433 [SPEAKER_03]: Started to have babies. 03:19.453 --> 03:21.296 [SPEAKER_03]: I have my older son Parker. 03:21.356 --> 03:22.258 [SPEAKER_03]: He's now 14. 03:22.298 --> 03:24.101 [SPEAKER_03]: Finley is 11. 03:24.121 --> 03:26.405 [SPEAKER_03]: And then we kind of debated. 03:26.505 --> 03:28.248 [SPEAKER_03]: Do we have a third one? 03:28.288 --> 03:28.949 [SPEAKER_03]: What do we do? 03:29.010 --> 03:31.314 [SPEAKER_03]: We both came from families of two siblings. 03:32.115 --> 03:32.676 [SPEAKER_03]: And 03:32.656 --> 03:33.298 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know. 03:33.578 --> 03:35.082 [SPEAKER_03]: Kind of just wanted to mix it up a little bit. 03:35.223 --> 03:40.417 [SPEAKER_03]: So, we were like, Lord, if this is what you want for us, let's try for a third. 03:40.697 --> 03:41.640 [SPEAKER_03]: So we tried for a third. 03:41.700 --> 03:43.946 [SPEAKER_03]: Perfect pregnancies, my other ones. 03:44.106 --> 03:45.330 [SPEAKER_03]: I would not say it's perfect. 03:45.791 --> 03:48.538 [SPEAKER_03]: I took a picture almost every day of my baby bump. 03:48.822 --> 03:55.915 [SPEAKER_03]: which again, in a third baby is unheard of because you don't have a lot of margin, other two people are taking up a lot of time. 03:56.616 --> 03:58.940 [SPEAKER_03]: But you'll know when you hear my story why that's such a sweet gift. 03:59.481 --> 04:06.093 [SPEAKER_03]: So just a really sweet pregnancy, sweet birth, Madly Shay, her name, her middle name, and my middle name are the same. 04:07.075 --> 04:10.020 [SPEAKER_03]: And so she was born February 20th. 04:11.502 --> 04:12.043 [SPEAKER_03]: 17. 04:12.644 --> 04:14.769 [SPEAKER_03]: Like let me think, Finley was born in 2014. 04:14.809 --> 04:15.511 [SPEAKER_03]: She was born in 2017. 04:15.531 --> 04:17.455 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, February 23rd. 04:18.096 --> 04:22.626 [SPEAKER_03]: And just live nine months of life with her and really sweet bliss. 04:22.967 --> 04:24.230 [SPEAKER_03]: She was the most perfect baby. 04:24.671 --> 04:25.913 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, hardly ever cried. 04:25.953 --> 04:27.176 [SPEAKER_03]: Could say mama. 04:27.216 --> 04:27.737 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 04:27.878 --> 04:29.882 [SPEAKER_03]: Already at nine months old. 04:29.862 --> 04:30.303 [SPEAKER_03]: I know. 04:30.864 --> 04:31.605 [SPEAKER_03]: It was really early. 04:31.885 --> 04:34.529 [SPEAKER_03]: She was very smart, had big blue eyes. 04:35.811 --> 04:41.080 [SPEAKER_03]: And her sister, Finley, who was three years older than her, they just adored each other. 04:41.681 --> 04:45.887 [SPEAKER_03]: So many videos of them like playing dress up and really Finley is dressing up. 04:46.047 --> 04:50.875 [SPEAKER_03]: And then she's putting makeup on happily or they're, you know, just playing his sisters. 04:50.855 --> 04:55.884 [SPEAKER_03]: but in November, on November 3rd, 2017 so she's not quite a year old yet. 04:56.445 --> 05:02.777 [SPEAKER_03]: She passed away from SUID, which is said in unexplained infant death, which is a subset of cids. 05:03.558 --> 05:06.203 [SPEAKER_03]: And when I believe is that she close her eyes to take a nap. 05:07.024 --> 05:11.192 [SPEAKER_03]: And the Lord said, well done, good and faithful servant, and he called her home. 05:11.172 --> 05:21.604 [SPEAKER_03]: That day is forever changed me, it's changed me and so many ways I always tell people that when she died so much of me also died 05:23.845 --> 05:30.457 [SPEAKER_03]: and the Lord has been faithful to resurrect so many pieces of my life and he has done all of that. 05:30.797 --> 05:31.338 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 05:31.358 --> 05:37.629 [SPEAKER_03]: I have done nothing but just bring my whole heart of surrender to him and he has flourished everything. 05:37.669 --> 05:42.317 [SPEAKER_03]: So in Chelsea's kind words of her saying that I want to share my story. 05:42.378 --> 05:44.942 [SPEAKER_03]: It's because I want to give people hope. 05:44.922 --> 05:57.349 [SPEAKER_03]: the true hope of Christ, that he's not just done with your story when death enters it, but he can truly resurrect it into something beautiful and use your pain for his glory to bring other people to himself. 05:58.191 --> 06:00.957 [SPEAKER_03]: And I also hold the hope that one day will be together again. 06:03.282 --> 06:14.154 [SPEAKER_03]: And that is the greatest joy, all of my searching, closely after she passed, I read so many books on heaven, the Amazon person was probably like, what is happening over here? 06:14.174 --> 06:16.577 [SPEAKER_03]: Having one, having to do, I need this book about heaven. 06:16.677 --> 06:19.781 [SPEAKER_03]: I need to know what she's doing, and I need to know her days look like. 06:20.141 --> 06:29.712 [SPEAKER_03]: And so much of my reading just talked about how God is a God of Restoration, that he's going to remember the things that I don't get to experience here on Earth with her. 06:29.692 --> 06:35.210 [SPEAKER_03]: Birthdays, dances, weddings, whatever that would look like, just the experience of those. 06:35.270 --> 06:40.427 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to get to raise her, and the purest joe weighs in heaven. 06:40.795 --> 06:41.876 [SPEAKER_03]: Then I can't wait for that day. 06:42.277 --> 06:42.817 [SPEAKER_03]: It's beautiful. 06:42.957 --> 06:43.938 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 06:43.958 --> 06:44.659 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, friend. 06:44.939 --> 06:45.300 [UNKNOWN]: Of course. 06:46.421 --> 06:47.802 [SPEAKER_01]: There's so much to tease out of that. 06:48.002 --> 06:52.587 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I had one little thought about, and there's a few different Advent liturgies. 06:52.787 --> 06:55.530 [SPEAKER_01]: This is, I'm going in the order that we're doing with the church. 06:55.770 --> 06:59.294 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm just lining those up with basically what bleak your told me. 07:00.215 --> 07:04.660 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think when I think of hope, I think of lost expectations. 07:04.680 --> 07:05.460 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think of suffering. 07:05.480 --> 07:06.662 [SPEAKER_01]: I think of grief. 07:06.682 --> 07:09.925 [SPEAKER_01]: You said something about part of you dying with her. 07:09.905 --> 07:13.494 [SPEAKER_01]: And I felt that in grief in my life. 07:13.734 --> 07:15.879 [SPEAKER_01]: I had a friend suddenly died. 07:15.900 --> 07:18.125 [SPEAKER_01]: I was very unexpected, car wreck. 07:18.406 --> 07:26.445 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember in that season of life, I was like, oh, a lot of the things I would read, people would say, you know, the part of you that, 07:26.425 --> 07:35.797 [SPEAKER_01]: Was different around that person is now no longer because that person just brought something out of you And so even like the way you mother your other children. 07:36.037 --> 07:37.579 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, versus hadley. 07:37.759 --> 07:56.263 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like hadley was different every child is different every mother knows this Yes, and so every person is different and everyone's made in the way that they're made and they're special and they're beautiful And so even then to think of the grief of not just like the person but the grief of the part of you that that person knew 07:57.610 --> 08:24.057 [SPEAKER_01]: addressing and then the other thing is around holidays and I think a lot of people can probably relate to this where it's like the first Christmas you remember the first Christmas that the anniversary is the birthdays you remember the highlights it's like and they feel like lowlights because that person is gone and so I always feel this like burden at Christmas to kind of 08:25.066 --> 08:42.957 [SPEAKER_01]: what do you need and so yeah there's a lot you could probably speak to and that maybe even like the practical side of it what's unhelpful things to say helpful things to say I don't know if there's anything that comes from mine there yeah but yeah there is so much that come to mind let me tease out what does it does not come to me 08:42.937 --> 08:47.606 [SPEAKER_03]: since a Hadley's passive spent most of my time studying about grief. 08:48.007 --> 08:54.199 [SPEAKER_03]: So studying that at Dallas theological seminary, which I will graduate in May, praise the Lord, and then studying on my own. 08:54.599 --> 09:01.773 [SPEAKER_03]: And then my own personal experience, I've met that looks like, and I think really being able to because you studied counseling. 09:02.014 --> 09:03.757 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, because I studied biblical counseling. 09:03.777 --> 09:05.400 [SPEAKER_03]: When did you decide that's 09:05.380 --> 09:08.325 [SPEAKER_03]: I decided that in 2021, yeah. 09:09.207 --> 09:12.192 [SPEAKER_03]: So she passed in 2017 and then there was COVID. 09:13.274 --> 09:21.088 [SPEAKER_03]: And then because I'd spent so much of just that part, like that portion of my life, just studying grief and loss in general. 09:21.649 --> 09:26.578 [SPEAKER_03]: And then living that story, I felt just this call to just offer the same, like you're saying. 09:26.558 --> 09:36.336 [SPEAKER_03]: I just started to be like, have this attunement that came from the Lord to see people in loss and to run towards that and to offer anything I had to them. 09:36.356 --> 09:40.444 [SPEAKER_03]: I would say the holidays for me are the hardest. 09:40.484 --> 09:45.173 [SPEAKER_03]: When Chelsea and I were even thinking about this, I told her when Christmas started to come out in October. 09:45.353 --> 09:47.137 [SPEAKER_03]: I was like, already feeling the aches. 09:47.317 --> 09:47.858 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 09:47.838 --> 10:03.265 [SPEAKER_03]: And even thinking about that mothering, I really read a lot of books and information on, you know, when someone passes away, especially a child, those days of deep grieving, because you love and miss them, are the days that you mother them. 10:03.245 --> 10:18.682 [SPEAKER_03]: And that was sweet for me because there was a lot of deep grieving days, and sometimes you can look at yourself and be like, come on, must you're up energy or hope or do something you have other kids to take care of, but those are my sacred days to mother her and my grief. 10:19.324 --> 10:21.068 [SPEAKER_03]: And so as a season rolls around. 10:21.048 --> 10:32.001 [SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of mothering to be had with her, because there's a lot of things I can't see and do with her, but there's a lot of days that I have to get up and remind myself of what she's doing in heaven. 10:32.562 --> 10:39.711 [SPEAKER_03]: Practical ways in this season, I think that you can be with someone in a fresh loss, is honestly just to be with them. 10:40.171 --> 10:40.391 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 10:40.452 --> 10:43.856 [SPEAKER_03]: Don't text them that you're bringing food just come, just some presents. 10:43.876 --> 10:44.136 [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. 10:44.116 --> 10:53.651 [SPEAKER_03]: I always talk about my home group, they would come every Thursday and they would, they came for months, like seven or eight months every week consistently. 10:54.071 --> 10:57.817 [SPEAKER_03]: They would bring dinner, they would bring coffee, and they'd be like, what do you want to do? 10:58.018 --> 10:58.719 [SPEAKER_03]: You know what you're moving? 10:59.179 --> 11:00.602 [SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to like go get a pedicure? 11:00.842 --> 11:02.104 [SPEAKER_03]: Like this is your day. 11:02.124 --> 11:04.728 [SPEAKER_03]: They just let me be, but they were there. 11:05.309 --> 11:07.272 [SPEAKER_03]: That was the most valuable gift. 11:07.252 --> 11:15.506 [SPEAKER_03]: Because I really lost a lot of executive functioning skills like the cooking and the cleaning I could just couldn't keep up Yeah, because the grief was so overwhelming. 11:15.806 --> 11:26.965 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and so it is nice to have like a mill train with food and cleaning But the better gift was someone coming over and letting me take a nap and when I woke up, they were just there and just asked hey 11:26.945 --> 11:27.826 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, what do you want to do? 11:27.846 --> 11:29.107 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't full of justice anymore. 11:29.327 --> 11:29.868 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 11:30.008 --> 11:30.428 [SPEAKER_01]: All of that. 11:30.448 --> 11:30.668 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 11:30.828 --> 11:31.289 [SPEAKER_03]: All of that. 11:31.549 --> 11:36.854 [SPEAKER_03]: I also had a friend that wasn't close to me, and I think this is just really impactful. 11:36.874 --> 11:40.637 [SPEAKER_03]: Because a lot of times, we are not close to the person that may be goes through a loss. 11:40.677 --> 11:43.080 [SPEAKER_03]: And we think, well, there's nothing really I can offer them. 11:44.181 --> 11:45.742 [SPEAKER_03]: But this person, they wrote me a letter. 11:45.802 --> 11:46.643 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow. 11:47.163 --> 11:51.327 [SPEAKER_03]: Every day, for a year, whole year, a whole year. 11:51.787 --> 11:53.149 [SPEAKER_03]: And I like search Thai and lonely. 11:53.189 --> 11:54.069 [SPEAKER_03]: Who is this person? 11:54.129 --> 11:56.952 [SPEAKER_03]: Because they typed it, which made it really encrypted. 11:56.932 --> 11:59.635 [SPEAKER_03]: But it was sent by mail with a stamp. 11:59.895 --> 12:00.236 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow. 12:00.356 --> 12:02.638 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I'm also like they went to the post office. 12:02.779 --> 12:03.099 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 12:03.119 --> 12:04.460 [SPEAKER_03]: Like how did this do you know who it was? 12:04.480 --> 12:04.561 [SPEAKER_03]: No. 12:04.721 --> 12:04.961 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 12:05.261 --> 12:07.284 [SPEAKER_03]: Now I know it was my former neighbor. 12:07.484 --> 12:07.784 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow. 12:07.844 --> 12:12.029 [SPEAKER_03]: On the street that we had lived at before we had just moved when had they passed away. 12:12.069 --> 12:12.770 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 12:12.790 --> 12:21.259 [SPEAKER_03]: But I always as soon as I only found out a couple years ago because she slipped up and said something about Oh, I prayed for you and sent you this letter and I'm like, you're the one. 12:21.299 --> 12:22.361 [SPEAKER_03]: You're the one. 12:22.381 --> 12:22.821 [SPEAKER_03]: You're the one. 12:22.801 --> 12:34.278 [SPEAKER_03]: But talk about long-suffering and endurance and it wasn't anything that I feel like I don't know maybe to her, not that she didn't think it was significant, but I look forward to those letters. 12:34.358 --> 12:34.899 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 12:34.919 --> 12:50.462 [SPEAKER_03]: I knew that every day I was going to get a verse in the mail, some portion of a song, something that just, again, reminded me that I wasn't alone, just the consistent people that carried my burdens and took upon my grief as their own, that's the only reason that 12:50.442 --> 12:58.658 [SPEAKER_03]: I was able to heal like I have, you know, just that power and community, what people can bring, which is just anything and mostly yourself. 12:59.542 --> 12:59.642 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 13:00.854 --> 13:01.295 [SPEAKER_03]: amazing. 13:01.815 --> 13:02.717 [SPEAKER_01]: Mad props to her. 13:02.837 --> 13:03.778 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope she listens to this. 13:04.079 --> 13:04.319 [SPEAKER_01]: Me too. 13:04.339 --> 13:05.000 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to send it to her. 13:05.220 --> 13:05.641 [SPEAKER_01]: Great. 13:05.661 --> 13:06.922 [SPEAKER_01]: Good job. 13:06.943 --> 13:09.126 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you reminded me too of that. 13:09.626 --> 13:12.310 [SPEAKER_01]: So looking back and seeing those things. 13:12.610 --> 13:20.882 [SPEAKER_01]: So when you're when you're coming up on the first anniversary, second anniversary, I'm sure it's still hurts, but there's probably less of a pain. 13:21.703 --> 13:23.626 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you remember surviving. 13:23.806 --> 13:24.948 [SPEAKER_01]: You remember getting through it. 13:25.068 --> 13:26.189 [SPEAKER_01]: You remember the letters. 13:26.330 --> 13:28.052 [SPEAKER_01]: You remember the people who showed up. 13:28.212 --> 13:29.494 [SPEAKER_01]: You remember all those things. 13:29.474 --> 13:36.774 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's a way that I think hope requires remembering in order to hope in something to happen. 13:36.854 --> 13:38.398 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to remember that it can be done. 13:38.438 --> 13:42.910 [SPEAKER_01]: And because we have hope in Christ, it's like, we have to remember, you know. 13:43.092 --> 13:47.360 [SPEAKER_01]: So we just did Hebrews, which talk about the best book ever. 13:47.400 --> 13:51.408 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all on the citizen church website, if you want to check it out. 13:51.829 --> 13:58.442 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think one of my favorite things, you know, literally when we were recording this the day after closing Hebrews. 13:58.622 --> 14:00.085 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was leading a group. 14:00.325 --> 14:02.670 [SPEAKER_01]: So last night was just like, what was our favorite part about Hebrews? 14:02.650 --> 14:06.256 [SPEAKER_01]: and so much of it was like this was just such an encouraging semester. 14:06.376 --> 14:06.556 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:06.757 --> 14:14.689 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people in the group felt like I didn't know what I was coming into, or I've done Bible studies before, but I had, you know, had this idea of what it would be, and then this was so much better. 14:14.729 --> 14:15.150 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:15.651 --> 14:19.417 [SPEAKER_01]: And the encouragement was like, you know, God is such a provider. 14:19.457 --> 14:19.918 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:19.938 --> 14:20.659 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, 14:20.639 --> 14:25.966 [SPEAKER_01]: not just in the ways that I want or I, you know, because I'm seeing the selfishness of my wants. 14:26.127 --> 14:26.427 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:26.447 --> 14:30.072 [SPEAKER_01]: But in the ways that he knows what's best or he knows the better way. 14:30.593 --> 14:31.073 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. 14:31.093 --> 14:33.056 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, I don't know, I'm rambling on that. 14:33.096 --> 14:42.208 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, but I just am thinking about how remembering and looking back helps us feel the hope in the moment. 14:42.429 --> 14:42.849 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 14:42.869 --> 14:44.331 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think you're saying it exactly right. 14:44.432 --> 14:44.612 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 14:44.632 --> 14:45.533 [SPEAKER_03]: Keep bruised. 14:45.513 --> 14:48.476 [SPEAKER_03]: What's the first time teaching, which was such a show? 14:48.496 --> 14:52.820 [SPEAKER_03]: Shut up, fighting, fighting, experience of like, who are these people that teach? 14:52.880 --> 14:53.641 [SPEAKER_03]: They are amazing. 14:54.041 --> 14:55.543 [SPEAKER_03]: After I've got to study so much. 14:55.683 --> 14:56.344 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a lot of work. 14:56.404 --> 14:59.567 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a lot of work, but such a fragment in my own soul. 14:59.687 --> 15:06.494 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, in no other way, what I'd be able to use this gift, the Lord has given me and teaching, and I felt so grateful for the opportunity. 15:06.734 --> 15:07.014 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 15:07.034 --> 15:11.959 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think Hebrews itself, the reason it is so hard to study, and you go into it thinking, 15:11.939 --> 15:19.509 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, the by-feet chapter, where there's that like I know pieces of it, it's easy, of soul, totally, totally, all my anchor tattoos. 15:20.109 --> 15:20.790 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I want one. 15:20.810 --> 15:21.251 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 15:21.271 --> 15:22.933 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, why is that so much harder? 15:23.153 --> 15:26.658 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think it requires you to pull back on information. 15:26.698 --> 15:41.777 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, God's promises, the tabernacle, or the resurrection, what he's doing, and then looking forward as the author of Hebrews is talking about to endure and to not give into the things that we can put our hope in that are tangible because they're in front 15:41.757 --> 15:45.530 [SPEAKER_03]: He's really encouraging the readers that know gets Christ. 15:45.630 --> 15:46.674 [SPEAKER_03]: It has resurrection. 15:46.814 --> 15:50.246 [SPEAKER_03]: It's his coming and it's his being in heaven for us. 15:50.427 --> 15:53.778 [SPEAKER_03]: It's all the things that hope requires of us. 15:53.798 --> 15:54.079 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 15:54.211 --> 15:58.257 [SPEAKER_03]: I wrote this down when I knew I was reading that or she had taught the chapter 11. 15:58.878 --> 16:08.693 [SPEAKER_03]: Faith is not a feeling you have to muster, it's something to discipline your mind to think and remember what got it done and to strain your eyes to see the promise looking forward. 16:09.214 --> 16:20.691 [SPEAKER_03]: And we had talked about faith and hope and how hope is something that basically you need faith to muster up the hope and eternal hope. 16:20.671 --> 16:23.656 [SPEAKER_01]: What you see in kind of like a lack of hope is a lack of faith. 16:23.676 --> 16:25.900 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they kind of go hand in hand. 16:25.920 --> 16:26.741 [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, what is faith? 16:26.761 --> 16:27.403 [SPEAKER_01]: What is hope that? 16:27.423 --> 16:30.768 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're two different things, but also two sides of the same coin. 16:30.808 --> 16:32.010 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know, yeah. 16:32.030 --> 16:32.652 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 16:33.192 --> 16:37.600 [SPEAKER_03]: How do you have this assurance of something right and be able to truly 16:37.580 --> 16:38.822 [SPEAKER_03]: Stake your life on it. 16:38.962 --> 16:49.036 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, which I think suffering highlights whenever you suffer and go through hard things You really take a look at your life and you're like is this what I really believe do I really hope in Christ? 16:49.657 --> 16:54.283 [SPEAKER_03]: Am I able to say use my suffering even in the things that I have seen in experience? 16:54.343 --> 16:57.047 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, do I still trust him and trust him again? 16:57.067 --> 17:04.397 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah with my life moving forward because of what I have seen and what I have I have remembered and my own trauma of my own story 17:04.377 --> 17:18.052 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that Hebrews was so great for me, because it's also like let's look back at God's promises, not necessarily looking back at the things that were hard, but looking back at who he is to must rep hope for the future. 17:18.132 --> 17:33.810 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's I think what we have to do with our grief stories too, that when we look back, not see the pieces that may have broken us or caused us the most grief, but the pieces were God highlighted himself the most and showed up to care for us just like I was saying about 17:33.790 --> 17:37.214 [SPEAKER_03]: my friends and community and people that were there. 17:38.276 --> 17:39.537 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 17:39.798 --> 17:42.682 [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like the the faith requires trust. 17:43.543 --> 17:46.607 [SPEAKER_01]: And then hope is like the expectant faith that you have. 17:46.987 --> 17:56.980 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like there's an expectancy, which also thing is one of the one of the beautiful things about having this theme of hope for Advent because it's like okay so Advent season in the Christian calendar. 17:56.960 --> 18:05.870 [SPEAKER_01]: It advent literally means coming a returning and so it's like well, he came and then he's coming again So we can celebrate the birth of Christ. 18:06.010 --> 18:13.818 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the first coming But we can also look forward to the second-hand event the second coming and and so there's like an expectancy Mm-hmm. 18:13.838 --> 18:15.000 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, my favorite song. 18:15.060 --> 18:22.748 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not really a Christmas song, but we sing in it Christmas often is a brick liquor What's why I think it might have been a brick Fraser when she was not married 18:22.728 --> 18:24.129 [SPEAKER_01]: song called Soon. 18:24.530 --> 18:25.911 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and it's like Soon and very soon. 18:25.971 --> 18:32.678 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm, you know, Christ, and I love that song because it's just this like Soon and very soon I will see you face-to-face. 18:32.718 --> 18:37.162 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the longing there, the like expectancy there. 18:37.202 --> 18:37.762 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:37.783 --> 18:42.988 [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't exist without having put faith in Christ and in what he has done. 18:43.208 --> 18:43.468 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:43.488 --> 18:46.171 [SPEAKER_01]: And all the things that Hebrews, you know, he's the better this. 18:46.211 --> 18:47.452 [SPEAKER_01]: He's the better that. 18:47.472 --> 18:47.732 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. 18:47.752 --> 18:49.714 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's just kind of like go together. 18:49.694 --> 18:53.080 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I love that idea too of even thinking of that song. 18:54.201 --> 19:01.513 [SPEAKER_03]: Student very soon, and I think that that is that spiritual endurance that we need as believers that we're putting our hope in. 19:01.754 --> 19:05.680 [SPEAKER_03]: We're putting our hope in Christ who gives us that spiritual endurance to remember that. 19:05.800 --> 19:06.642 [SPEAKER_03]: Student very soon. 19:07.082 --> 19:07.483 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 19:07.463 --> 19:12.510 [SPEAKER_03]: I always think of sometimes just in counseling when we talk about, like, thinking the worst, like, the worst that could happen. 19:13.251 --> 19:24.487 [SPEAKER_03]: We need to go all the way down to the worst and the worst is, you know, seeing Jesus, not the worst is seeing him, but the worst is maybe something happening, but beyond that is being in heaven with Jesus. 19:24.547 --> 19:28.914 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's the further that our mind needs to be pushed and go to. 19:29.234 --> 19:32.779 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think we just see the here and now and the suffering and the things that 19:32.759 --> 19:44.068 [SPEAKER_03]: happen in front of us and what's the worst that can happen, but really we forget to push even further to the glory that is awaiting us in our eternal inheritance with him. 19:45.297 --> 20:07.170 [SPEAKER_01]: makes me sad when I think of people walking through grief that don't know God and I've had my share of like friends in those places and there is such a hopelessness yeah that exists when they're doing something hard yeah and it's just like I'm really like I don't know what you're 20:07.150 --> 20:09.934 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there is like we're made in the image of God. 20:09.954 --> 20:13.719 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's little bits of God in us and we're just not attributing it to him. 20:14.059 --> 20:14.440 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 20:14.460 --> 20:24.573 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm like, I think what you're mustering is a little bit of God and my hope is just that somehow that is what awakens you and that God uses that someday. 20:24.593 --> 20:34.626 [SPEAKER_01]: I can think of, I'm picturing several people in my life that I just have been like, you are mustering really in really hard things you are mustering the energy to go forward. 20:34.606 --> 20:42.291 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so self-reliant and it's like, I know it can't last, but somehow you're doing it just so interesting to think of it that way. 20:43.074 --> 20:46.405 [SPEAKER_01]: I think to back to the holiday seasons, it's like... 20:47.077 --> 20:50.501 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of the sparkle of it, the joy of it, the like celebration side. 20:51.202 --> 20:55.728 [SPEAKER_01]: I also love when there's sort of, I just, I feel music a lot. 20:55.748 --> 20:56.849 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to reference other songs. 20:56.929 --> 21:02.035 [SPEAKER_01]: But do you have a, I'm a Sufi on Stevens, like all his songs have a tinge of sadness. 21:02.396 --> 21:02.516 [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh. 21:03.077 --> 21:06.581 [SPEAKER_01]: And he has a Christmas album that is, and some people really don't like it. 21:06.601 --> 21:07.102 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's fine. 21:07.863 --> 21:16.273 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, there is a tinge of, there's a tinge of like bitter sweetness to, even like one of 21:16.253 --> 21:19.998 [SPEAKER_01]: which is also almost on its own kind of a sad sounding song. 21:20.018 --> 21:20.559 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is. 21:20.739 --> 21:28.469 [SPEAKER_01]: There's like a longing and there's like a, there's like a morning, even though we're like, oh, come, oh, come. 21:28.489 --> 21:35.599 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's almost like a cry instead of like a joyful and honestly, the big happy joyful songs usually. 21:35.619 --> 21:42.328 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't love, but to each their own, I'm not a pessimist, but I sound like it maybe. 21:42.308 --> 21:51.084 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I just, yeah, there's something to that too, even had conversations lately with some friends, just like, hey, how are we feeling going into the holidays with our families? 21:51.325 --> 21:56.775 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's not always like a grief for a loss of a person in our lives. 21:56.815 --> 21:59.400 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's like the grief of expectations. 21:59.440 --> 21:59.660 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:59.680 --> 22:02.325 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I was having a conversation with some friends. 22:02.305 --> 22:19.639 [SPEAKER_01]: Just sorry about how much family tradition has changed because you get older and then, you know, your siblings get married or you get married, things just change fast and I've experienced that in my family and you do start to feel like you lose the 22:21.020 --> 22:22.983 [SPEAKER_01]: child like wonder of it, you know? 22:23.644 --> 22:25.026 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this is an opening question. 22:25.346 --> 22:26.808 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you find that child like wonder? 22:26.848 --> 22:37.524 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's like, I'm going into the holidays, and I was telling this to somebody, I want to ramp down in my parents, especially my mom, lover, wants to ramp up. 22:37.664 --> 22:38.725 [SPEAKER_01]: She wants to do things. 22:38.766 --> 22:40.508 [SPEAKER_01]: She wants to go, yeah, we could do this. 22:40.528 --> 22:41.069 [SPEAKER_01]: We could do this. 22:41.289 --> 22:43.252 [SPEAKER_01]: And to me, I'm like, I just want to break. 22:43.452 --> 22:43.973 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 22:43.953 --> 22:48.387 [SPEAKER_01]: And and I'm really like struggling before and it's only November. 22:48.567 --> 22:51.657 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking Thanksgiving, but I'm like I need to think ahead to Christmas. 22:51.817 --> 22:54.385 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and like Lord I need to feel 22:55.478 --> 22:57.020 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to find some wonder again. 22:57.140 --> 22:59.704 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to like, feel some awe. 22:59.924 --> 23:00.765 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what that is. 23:01.146 --> 23:02.247 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I would take some snow. 23:02.448 --> 23:02.908 [SPEAKER_01]: That might help. 23:03.088 --> 23:05.311 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally cool, cold front right now. 23:05.351 --> 23:05.792 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been 85. 23:05.992 --> 23:06.653 [SPEAKER_01]: It's Texas. 23:06.914 --> 23:08.876 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a record high day for November. 23:08.916 --> 23:10.699 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't know. 23:10.979 --> 23:16.507 [SPEAKER_01]: That is an open end and I'm like, how do I find more just joy and things? 23:16.527 --> 23:18.229 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think by slowing down. 23:18.209 --> 23:20.792 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, slowing down, slowing our pace. 23:21.032 --> 23:23.374 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it is typical to ramp up during this time. 23:23.715 --> 23:27.338 [SPEAKER_03]: Plus, I think culturally, society, everything ramps up anyways. 23:27.979 --> 23:31.903 [SPEAKER_03]: And then you feel this inner inks to also do it alongside of them. 23:32.484 --> 23:47.119 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think the better thing, he proves shout out the better calling, is for us to slow down to create rhythms of rest and rhythms of reading, rhythms of even meditating, 23:47.099 --> 24:08.971 [SPEAKER_03]: So that when those feelings of unment expectations, those feelings of, I mean, I really miss that tradition, or that person that usually brings this food dish is not with us, or they're not coming this year, or, yeah, something unexpected happened that were not so focused on that being our joy and our hope, but focused on Christ because that's exactly what this season is for. 24:09.491 --> 24:16.161 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's easy to get lost in no wonder in all of the, I don't know, very dust, as you should say, 24:16.141 --> 24:17.683 [SPEAKER_03]: the sparkle of this time. 24:17.784 --> 24:19.626 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that too of just the word hope. 24:20.127 --> 24:36.333 [SPEAKER_03]: I think people often misplace that word because they're putting it in an outcome or something they think will happen when hope truly is like we said, having this really deep rooted faith in Christ that he is going to do what he says he's going to do. 24:36.373 --> 24:43.043 [SPEAKER_03]: He who he is who he is and that there is need 24:43.023 --> 24:55.989 [SPEAKER_03]: At the end of all this, and that's why we can run the race with suffering, with endured hardship, because we know that either we're going to see on the side of glory, the benefits of that, or we may not see it until we're in heaven. 24:56.550 --> 24:59.196 [SPEAKER_03]: But we know that that's assured for us as believers. 24:59.656 --> 25:00.458 [SPEAKER_03]: But I feel you. 25:00.438 --> 25:06.486 [SPEAKER_03]: I get days where I'm like, let's ramp up and then I'm like, no, so down, ramp up, so down. 25:06.526 --> 25:21.304 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a real thing and it's a real struggle, you know, there's the first time that you got off all social media and most of all of my accounts for 30 days and that was probably the most life-giving thing for me. 25:21.384 --> 25:22.986 [SPEAKER_03]: I had fought it for a long time. 25:22.966 --> 25:28.980 [SPEAKER_03]: Just because schools, you know, there's a lot of things that I quote and quote need it for for information. 25:29.020 --> 25:33.350 [SPEAKER_03]: But then I was like, oh my gosh, I get so much information from social media. 25:33.991 --> 25:34.913 [SPEAKER_03]: There are other ways. 25:35.334 --> 25:40.907 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's say, like email or, you know, other people. 25:40.887 --> 25:42.869 [SPEAKER_03]: other ways you can get this information. 25:42.889 --> 25:48.415 [SPEAKER_03]: But that actually I think for me highlighted just an aches in my soul. 25:48.556 --> 25:59.928 [SPEAKER_03]: Like I am always waiting for the next best thing or almost a way to fill my need for grief with something else and that is a tangible something else for me. 26:00.709 --> 26:03.452 [SPEAKER_03]: When we came in today I was telling Chelsea I'm like I'm a cry today. 26:03.787 --> 26:05.731 [SPEAKER_03]: Mostly because I feel like I'm in a crying sentence. 26:05.771 --> 26:06.573 [SPEAKER_03]: We've already cried. 26:06.593 --> 26:07.474 [SPEAKER_03]: Cleanx is right here. 26:07.735 --> 26:08.336 [SPEAKER_03]: We're good to go. 26:08.376 --> 26:13.266 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think that that's why when I'm really sitting with the Lord. 26:13.466 --> 26:13.667 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 26:13.907 --> 26:15.931 [SPEAKER_03]: I feel the feelings and I need to feel the feelings. 26:16.432 --> 26:18.216 [SPEAKER_01]: We need to feel things. 26:18.236 --> 26:21.863 [SPEAKER_01]: I only recently saw this therapist on social media. 26:21.843 --> 26:47.648 [SPEAKER_01]: But she was saying like crying we we want to think that like crying is like this disconnected thing And it's actually your body is responding immediately to an emotional feeling that you're having and it's responding faster than your brain can compete Why and there's actually something so the work is figuring out why am I crying in this moment and and that probably can take a while But the actual crying is actually beautiful and it's your body needs to do that 26:47.729 --> 26:52.435 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just for whatever reason I've always, all my life, always been like, I'm so sorry. 26:52.455 --> 26:52.716 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm crying. 26:52.736 --> 26:56.000 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like in a natural gut kind of reaction. 26:56.280 --> 27:01.086 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is it is always more cathartic to just let it out. 27:01.327 --> 27:01.567 [SPEAKER_01]: It is. 27:02.388 --> 27:03.409 [SPEAKER_01]: This is such a silly question. 27:03.470 --> 27:06.493 [SPEAKER_01]: Are there any like sad Christmas music? 27:06.513 --> 27:11.180 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I, when I need a good Christmas cry, I put on the family stone. 27:11.240 --> 27:17.668 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll be honest. 27:17.648 --> 27:20.297 [SPEAKER_01]: Because my own street just passed away. 27:20.317 --> 27:24.231 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't watched it and I'm gonna not mirror oh my god, not my own street. 27:24.451 --> 27:25.013 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so sorry. 27:25.575 --> 27:27.000 [SPEAKER_03]: I went no, I've never seen that 27:28.077 --> 27:31.581 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a lot of crazy anyways. 27:31.601 --> 27:33.343 [SPEAKER_01]: Mayor Streep's live and well as far as I know. 27:33.363 --> 27:34.384 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't checked the news today. 27:35.044 --> 27:35.725 [SPEAKER_01]: Her to hear first. 27:35.785 --> 27:36.946 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm gosh. 27:36.966 --> 27:39.249 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, Diane Keaton just passed and she plays the bomb. 27:39.349 --> 27:43.013 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like fully expecting a crack because that is a part that movie is grief. 27:43.113 --> 27:43.794 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes. 27:43.834 --> 27:46.016 [SPEAKER_01]: I almost boil it and you'll watch it spoil it for me. 27:46.877 --> 27:47.798 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is. 27:47.878 --> 27:50.681 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like when I need to get some feelings out. 27:50.701 --> 27:53.764 [SPEAKER_01]: I Christmas guaranteed movie for me, it's music. 27:53.744 --> 27:54.505 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, movies. 27:54.565 --> 27:59.191 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to watch like, you know, the funny Christmas movies that have been around for 25 years. 28:00.392 --> 28:01.273 [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it's music. 28:01.794 --> 28:23.380 [SPEAKER_03]: I think even probably the next few Sundays here, I will just be weeping, just listening to music and just reading the words and being like, man, on one hand, holding this deep sorrow, I've just paid that I've experienced in this life, but then holding on to this hope on the other hand, I've seen Jesus and it all being redeemed, just together 28:23.360 --> 28:27.905 [SPEAKER_03]: a feeling of grief, which is okay, elementing of sorts. 28:27.985 --> 28:32.289 [SPEAKER_03]: And not grief, I would say limit like come to the Lord and truly talking with him. 28:32.329 --> 28:34.752 [SPEAKER_03]: It almost draws me in closer to him. 28:34.772 --> 28:37.534 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think we have a choice in that as you were saying about crying. 28:37.574 --> 28:49.907 [SPEAKER_03]: We can either shove it down and kind of not see it for what it is, but it is a way that we can honestly come to the Lord, because that is a deep yearning and our soul for something better. 28:49.887 --> 28:52.873 [SPEAKER_01]: as a counseling student, soon to be counselor or full-time. 28:52.893 --> 28:53.113 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 28:53.834 --> 28:55.457 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you see lament versus grief? 28:57.822 --> 28:58.323 [SPEAKER_03]: So different. 28:58.864 --> 28:59.044 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 28:59.084 --> 29:00.206 [SPEAKER_03]: Lament, hold top. 29:00.988 --> 29:05.877 [SPEAKER_03]: It holds space for us to come to the Lord, to cry out to him, boldly. 29:05.917 --> 29:09.904 [SPEAKER_03]: In the early days of Hadley Passing, I remember, 29:09.884 --> 29:32.641 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't really want to read my Bible and I didn't want to sing the words of the song because if I did either of those things I would at the moment I felt like I was giving up on a tree of mine on being her mom and I felt like and some ways the Lord was saying like I was an equipped to be her mom or he wasn't allowing me to be her mom. 29:32.661 --> 29:36.347 [SPEAKER_03]: It was the lies that I was believing about that. 29:36.327 --> 29:39.932 [SPEAKER_03]: And I read Dark Cloud's Deep Mercy, which is a book on the Mint. 29:40.193 --> 29:41.555 [SPEAKER_03]: We love, we love that book. 29:42.256 --> 29:44.900 [SPEAKER_03]: And a lot of it requires us to ask boldly. 29:45.260 --> 29:45.761 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 29:45.781 --> 29:48.365 [SPEAKER_03]: And so I would turn to Scripture, and I would just read it out loud. 29:49.006 --> 29:50.007 [SPEAKER_03]: And I would ask boldly. 29:50.508 --> 29:53.111 [SPEAKER_03]: God, these words are not going to return void because they're your words. 29:53.772 --> 30:02.385 [SPEAKER_03]: And I don't feel them yet, and I am not surrendering to this story yet, because I'm still frustrated, mad, and mulling over my own emotions. 30:02.365 --> 30:03.968 [SPEAKER_03]: But I know what you say is true. 30:04.028 --> 30:05.511 [SPEAKER_03]: I just can't see it right now. 30:06.152 --> 30:13.465 [SPEAKER_03]: And so asking boldly for things that I knew that he could give, maybe not in tangible ways, but in intangible ways in the moment. 30:14.127 --> 30:18.575 [SPEAKER_03]: So I think there is just the act of acting boldly of complaining. 30:18.936 --> 30:19.176 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 30:19.156 --> 30:21.418 [SPEAKER_03]: we need to bring our complaints to him. 30:21.438 --> 30:23.661 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't expect this to happen. 30:23.681 --> 30:28.285 [SPEAKER_03]: I expected this, this sweet family of five with her in it. 30:29.006 --> 30:33.671 [SPEAKER_03]: I expected her to live this long life and really from me to pass and her to live on. 30:34.391 --> 30:47.965 [SPEAKER_03]: There are so many things that I brought up to him is just complaints, but through that the Lord really softened my heart to show me that my plan for her is 30:47.945 --> 30:57.781 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that that, in that sense, it was a sweet gift for me as a mom, because as moms, we can try not all the time, but we can sometimes try to control. 30:57.821 --> 31:01.267 [SPEAKER_03]: And we can try to be like, this is the outcome of my child's life. 31:01.367 --> 31:07.978 [SPEAKER_03]: If I put them in this school and do this thing and do this, like, this is what they're going to do and the Lord had a different 31:07.958 --> 31:16.783 [SPEAKER_03]: path for her, and not ultimately anything that I wanted, but he was using her life and has used it since she passed to bring people to himself. 31:17.264 --> 31:22.980 [SPEAKER_03]: There have been people that have come to know the Lord through her story that may not have ever come to know him. 31:22.960 --> 31:30.214 [SPEAKER_03]: And so even just in the surrender of saying, this is your child, you love her more and you're going to use her story. 31:30.234 --> 31:41.695 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that is another art of lamenting and just hoping, hoping that a having faith, the Lord's going to use every single piece of first story and he has. 31:41.675 --> 31:53.359 [SPEAKER_03]: He truly has and I feel like I can sit here as a testament to that looking back on his faithfulness and seeing what he's done just by coming to him because that is even just hard. 31:53.960 --> 31:59.852 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, as a newly suffering person, I think that year is one through five is like your one. 32:01.250 --> 32:02.552 [SPEAKER_01]: and all blurs together. 32:02.632 --> 32:03.594 [SPEAKER_03]: It all blurs together. 32:03.935 --> 32:06.760 [SPEAKER_03]: We got to give ourselves so much grace to come to him. 32:07.020 --> 32:07.882 [SPEAKER_03]: But they're very different. 32:07.942 --> 32:16.417 [SPEAKER_03]: Limitting is crying out to the Lord and it's expecting him to do something, knowing that he will because he's been faithful before. 32:16.477 --> 32:23.069 [SPEAKER_03]: And I think that just grieving sometimes, we can grieve without hope and believers we grieve with hope. 32:24.191 --> 32:24.692 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 32:24.672 --> 32:27.477 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like you talk about talking to God. 32:27.497 --> 32:28.879 [SPEAKER_01]: You talk about limiting to God. 32:29.861 --> 32:42.343 [SPEAKER_01]: We talk before we hit record about how it's like if you if you're lacking hope so if you feel really hopeless you feel like hopeless in God there is a lack of faith 32:42.323 --> 32:43.585 [SPEAKER_01]: usually tied in there. 32:43.605 --> 32:45.367 [SPEAKER_01]: It's also like a lack of trust. 32:45.427 --> 32:47.670 [SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like, and we both watch this jacket, Perry. 32:47.710 --> 32:53.238 [SPEAKER_01]: She talked about when you, when you don't hope in God, you're almost like accusing him. 32:53.338 --> 32:58.405 [SPEAKER_01]: You're almost putting him in this place of saying, you're the cause of my pain or whatever. 32:58.806 --> 33:02.651 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it's like, it's pretty dire when you think of it that way. 33:02.871 --> 33:03.252 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 33:03.232 --> 33:10.671 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hopeless and yeah, thinking like through like what's the antidote to that it is just talking to God. 33:10.952 --> 33:12.255 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like taking it to him. 33:12.276 --> 33:13.759 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that you said surrender. 33:13.799 --> 33:19.013 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that word is the word because when you surrender, it's like 33:18.993 --> 33:20.416 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a submission piece. 33:20.516 --> 33:27.909 [SPEAKER_01]: There's like a, which some people have a hard time with that, but it's like to surrender something is to say it's what Christ did on the cross. 33:27.989 --> 33:33.960 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like not my will but ours, you know, as as the Godhead is part of the Godhead, this is painful. 33:33.980 --> 33:35.202 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do it. 33:35.342 --> 33:37.566 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my fleshly self is against it. 33:37.667 --> 33:40.191 [SPEAKER_01]: My godly self knows this is the will of God. 33:40.171 --> 33:48.820 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm surrendering my life and it's like, well, if that's where we're heading and, you know, that's what Christ did on the cross. 33:49.902 --> 33:52.384 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what I want to be is more like Christ. 33:52.545 --> 33:54.607 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, then I need to think about serving. 33:54.627 --> 33:58.211 [SPEAKER_01]: So when he talks about taking up your cross, it's like, what is that for you? 33:58.391 --> 34:04.778 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's something that in the Christian life is just, it's a journey to figure that out. 34:04.758 --> 34:23.627 [SPEAKER_01]: and and it's something that one of the other Hebrew quotes that I've loved and I don't try to remember who said it first because everybody said it after the first I might have been there but it like the endurance is a community project yes I love that endurance is a group project and then I think everybody just has been quoting it including my group. 34:23.607 --> 34:31.376 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, yes, because if we are the body and we're brothers and sisters, it's like we need each other. 34:31.437 --> 34:48.197 [SPEAKER_01]: God obviously made the family a God for a reason the way he did and even God in its Trinity, it's a communal, you know, the Christian God is a communal God, it's unlike any other God in other religions. 34:48.177 --> 34:55.927 [SPEAKER_01]: because it's the God, apologetics, we can get into another episode and then it's like in that communal nature we exist as well. 34:56.147 --> 34:56.788 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:56.808 --> 34:58.250 [SPEAKER_01]: And then we're the handsome feet in Jesus. 34:58.390 --> 35:05.640 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's just all those metaphors where the family got, the brothers and sisters saints went on the metaphors and yeah, I don't know. 35:05.840 --> 35:06.761 [SPEAKER_01]: There's something there too. 35:06.822 --> 35:11.968 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like I think you've said it in your story just all the ways that community showed up for you. 35:12.249 --> 35:12.429 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 35:13.030 --> 35:16.294 [SPEAKER_01]: All the ways that you 35:16.274 --> 35:22.236 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you do is there if you look back at your like previous Hadley self? 35:23.159 --> 35:23.299 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. 35:23.320 --> 35:25.407 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you do she seem hopeful? 35:26.703 --> 35:32.530 [SPEAKER_01]: And do you think your sense of hope, like, if you could tell her anything, like, you know, I'm getting that idea. 35:32.610 --> 35:33.771 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's such a good question. 35:33.791 --> 35:36.134 [SPEAKER_03]: It's worth you at all. 35:36.154 --> 35:38.878 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you could tell the previous head, Lindsay. 35:39.158 --> 35:41.521 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, hey, I know what you think is hopeful. 35:41.761 --> 35:42.722 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 35:42.742 --> 35:44.344 [SPEAKER_01]: You're about to find out what real hope is. 35:44.805 --> 35:46.366 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, could you maybe like parse that out? 35:46.587 --> 35:47.648 [SPEAKER_01]: Totally. 35:47.628 --> 36:00.680 [SPEAKER_03]: If I were to look back at previous Lindsay and this is the hardest thing I think about suffering, is that truly the things that God teaches you because He is so audible and so close to you and He really carries you. 36:00.720 --> 36:05.772 [SPEAKER_03]: Our ever changing, it's like you almost don't even know the person you were before. 36:05.752 --> 36:06.112 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 36:06.393 --> 36:09.877 [SPEAKER_03]: But it doesn't change the fact that I would change it all and have her with me today. 36:10.418 --> 36:10.578 [SPEAKER_03]: Sure. 36:10.618 --> 36:28.620 [SPEAKER_03]: So it's this like dichotomy of such that you can't really untangle them from, but that previous Lindsay before such devastating loss was scared, scared of death, scared of dying, very anxious and fearful of just admit expectations. 36:28.600 --> 36:36.050 [SPEAKER_03]: Probably always filling her life with things, so she didn't have to sit with me with the reality of how things were. 36:36.090 --> 36:46.163 [SPEAKER_03]: And with her passing, because so much of me died, a lot of me died with that. 36:47.024 --> 36:49.647 [SPEAKER_03]: And even those things that I would say were, 36:50.977 --> 36:54.301 [SPEAKER_03]: things that I thought these were the better things. 36:54.521 --> 37:03.072 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like, yeah, the Lord took the whole house down with it, and the roots, and every single thing, and that's what was so hard and devastating about her loss. 37:03.913 --> 37:11.163 [SPEAKER_03]: But he has a built it back through his word and his promises in the most best way. 37:12.164 --> 37:15.108 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like the house is now on this firm foundation. 37:15.148 --> 37:16.309 [SPEAKER_03]: That's one of those are correct. 37:16.289 --> 37:29.365 [SPEAKER_03]: That just can't be shaken because that fear of death is no more because I know that In watching her pass that he has resurrected her and then I will be with her again And I will be with him again. 37:29.425 --> 37:31.688 [SPEAKER_03]: So part of me is already in heaven. 37:31.808 --> 37:42.921 [SPEAKER_03]: So there's no fear of that I don't want to fill my life with things that I can only Buy or see because I know that that's not gonna give me any endurance for tomorrow 37:42.901 --> 37:56.399 [SPEAKER_03]: I still will feel anxious about things that's not, you know, I haven't lost all humanity in all the things, but I do have a better outlook on where I'm going, what I know will be when I get there. 37:56.439 --> 38:12.520 [SPEAKER_03]: And that really helps me to live in the present today and to stay in the present, and to be the hands and feet of the Lord, when he needs me to be people that are suffering, to offer intangible things to them, 38:13.563 --> 38:14.625 [SPEAKER_03]: and you're doing that. 38:14.645 --> 38:15.306 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm doing that. 38:15.927 --> 38:18.150 [SPEAKER_03]: The Lord is using my small muster of faith. 38:18.932 --> 38:20.354 [SPEAKER_03]: I love that you talked about surrender. 38:20.434 --> 38:26.724 [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's the hardest thing for someone suffering is to look at what is lost. 38:27.625 --> 38:31.251 [SPEAKER_03]: Look at the story they would have never painted this picture they would have never seen. 38:31.231 --> 38:37.898 [SPEAKER_03]: And be okay with that, but I don't think that that's exactly what's happening, because you're not okay with that in surrender. 38:38.519 --> 38:44.265 [SPEAKER_03]: You're just saying, Lord, you use that, you use the suffering, you use everything for your glory. 38:44.306 --> 38:50.112 [SPEAKER_03]: But I think people think if I surrender, it's because I'm saying, I'm okay with this. 38:50.272 --> 38:50.532 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. 38:50.713 --> 38:53.776 [SPEAKER_03]: Where the Lord is like, oh no, I'm not okay with sin and death. 38:53.876 --> 38:54.697 [SPEAKER_03]: That's why I came. 38:54.877 --> 38:55.238 [SPEAKER_03]: That's it. 38:55.478 --> 38:59.162 [SPEAKER_03]: To take it all away so that we will be together again. 38:59.142 --> 39:10.054 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just, to reiterate that, it's like, I think we think that because God allowed something to that he's okay with that. 39:10.775 --> 39:13.658 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, no, he hates this with you. 39:13.698 --> 39:14.078 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 39:14.859 --> 39:22.888 [SPEAKER_01]: And what you just said, it's like, and what you're invited into is participating in his plan, yes, to rebuild Shalom. 39:23.108 --> 39:26.432 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, which we will end with Shalom in a couple of weeks. 39:26.412 --> 39:30.537 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, that is the purpose, the purpose of all of it. 39:30.557 --> 39:37.644 [SPEAKER_01]: The purpose of the good things and the bad things will be to ultimately bring peace back to or to bring Eden back to Earth. 39:37.785 --> 39:37.985 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 39:38.285 --> 39:39.366 [SPEAKER_01]: Heaven comes down. 39:39.607 --> 39:39.787 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 39:39.867 --> 39:42.850 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't go up to some ethereal place. 39:42.990 --> 39:43.531 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 39:43.551 --> 39:51.039 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it is really just like even thinking of that, like imagining back in the garden. 39:51.520 --> 39:56.385 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 39:56.365 --> 40:01.133 [SPEAKER_01]: and being in communion with God is the end result that we all get. 40:01.373 --> 40:03.096 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so looking back, we're looking forward. 40:03.296 --> 40:03.497 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 40:04.118 --> 40:05.119 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to close this way. 40:05.159 --> 40:06.762 [SPEAKER_01]: I just, would you do this for me? 40:06.782 --> 40:11.249 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you pray for the men and women who are suffering right now? 40:12.150 --> 40:12.251 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 40:12.271 --> 40:14.134 [SPEAKER_01]: And who maybe just need a little hope. 40:14.755 --> 40:16.838 [SPEAKER_03]: I just want to close and bear. 40:16.818 --> 40:19.061 [SPEAKER_03]: Before I close I am going to read Isaiah 40. 40:19.221 --> 40:23.706 [SPEAKER_03]: We talked about this too because I do think that putting our faith in the Lord. 40:24.247 --> 40:26.129 [SPEAKER_03]: He's going to renew their strength. 40:26.249 --> 40:27.411 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is Isaiah 4031. 40:28.412 --> 40:30.915 [SPEAKER_03]: But they who wait for the Lord shall renew their strength. 40:31.536 --> 40:33.478 [SPEAKER_03]: They shall mount up with wings like eagles. 40:33.999 --> 40:37.303 [SPEAKER_03]: They shall run and not be weary and they shall walk and not be faint. 40:38.024 --> 40:39.045 [SPEAKER_03]: And those are promises. 40:39.025 --> 40:48.278 [SPEAKER_03]: When we give up and we surrender and we say, Lord, your plan not mine, your story not mine, your will not mine, got all glory to you. 40:49.360 --> 40:51.523 [SPEAKER_03]: So Lord, we just come before you right now. 40:53.325 --> 41:00.375 [SPEAKER_03]: And God, we know that you came ultimately so that we would spend eternity with you. 41:01.975 --> 41:13.070 [SPEAKER_03]: that we will not suffer death in this life in a spiritual sense, that we as believers never die because we're always with you and we will go straight to heaven to be with you face-to-face one day. 41:13.110 --> 41:21.722 [SPEAKER_03]: Then just like Chelsea was saying in the song, soon and very soon, our King is coming for us. 41:24.487 --> 41:27.310 [SPEAKER_03]: and what a sweet promise for the people today. 41:27.350 --> 41:40.603 [SPEAKER_03]: That all can see as a darkness or a suffering, all they can feel is pain from the loss of someone that they've loved, all they can feel is disappointment or shame. 41:40.663 --> 41:54.477 [SPEAKER_03]: Got all of those things that are so easy to look to to give us identity, got let it not be so, but we look beyond with spiritual endurance 41:55.823 --> 42:02.031 [SPEAKER_03]: that his resurrected body, guide men that we could come to him any time, any hour of the day. 42:02.091 --> 42:18.051 [SPEAKER_03]: And that is believers that he is also advocating, that Jesus is advocating to the Father on our behalf for those that are suffering, remind them of that, that when they're too weary to pray, God, that you are praying for them. 42:19.533 --> 42:24.122 [SPEAKER_03]: and that you will never stop and never give up praying because that's the kind of God you are. 42:24.142 --> 42:32.438 [SPEAKER_03]: I got the loves his children that runs after his children to find them, and to hold them. 42:32.458 --> 42:40.714 [SPEAKER_03]: I got to pray as people feel just lost in the season where they feel the sense of hopelessness. 42:41.926 --> 42:44.830 [SPEAKER_03]: that you will run to them, that you will hold them. 42:44.850 --> 42:53.242 [SPEAKER_03]: You will whisper in their ears your promises over and over again, that you will never leave them, that you will never forsake them. 42:53.282 --> 43:01.934 [SPEAKER_03]: And even though it's hard to see how you can use their loss, God that you will use it because you are a God that restores all things. 43:02.534 --> 43:05.098 [SPEAKER_03]: Just as Chelsea said, you are restoring this earth. 43:06.344 --> 43:35.693 [SPEAKER_03]: We don't know the day that you're going to come back but until that time heaven is coming to earth a little by little and one day it will all be restored and one day we will all see clearly But until then we have to hold your hand in the dark and we have to trust that you have eyes to see further than we do I give a strength to remember that today give us hope give us faith bolster our hearts 43:37.141 --> 43:43.610 [SPEAKER_03]: Even if we're not currently suffering, we need a better picture of what's left at the end of this life. 43:44.290 --> 43:45.132 [SPEAKER_03]: Then Christ, that's you. 43:46.033 --> 43:47.114 [SPEAKER_03]: And so we're so grateful. 43:47.995 --> 43:48.716 [SPEAKER_03]: And you name me, pray. 43:49.057 --> 43:49.317 [SPEAKER_03]: Amen. 43:50.419 --> 43:50.639 [SPEAKER_03]: Amen. 43:54.764 --> 43:56.827 [SPEAKER_01]: This podcast is produced by me. 43:57.788 --> 44:03.676 [SPEAKER_01]: With editing a support from the Good Podcast Company, as always, check show notes for resources and ways to connect with us. 44:04.437 --> 44:05.899 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.