[SPEAKER_00]: So we have some great news to start out the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Case isn't dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I figured that's what your news was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is good news for me at least every week.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's good news for everybody every week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Case we like having you around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now what I'm talking about is case went on an epic South American paragliding safari.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't the safari.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a safari.
[SPEAKER_01]: You almost hit a tree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we were in a jungle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know it was a tree.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just sometimes,
[SPEAKER_01]: when you're flying, you're not that far from trees.
[SPEAKER_00]: So pull up the video clip, you guys got a seizure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So case, you want to give some background as to what you're doing, so on around Columbia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, my dad was a paraglider pilot a long time ago, and pretty early days of the sport.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I grew up around paragliding.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this past spring started flying myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, we made a buddy of mine
[SPEAKER_01]: to go do some paragliding.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were at a place called Pieticinje.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's definitely a haven for flying.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really good location, favorable conditions.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were learning how to thermal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, we had some nice flights, like two-hour flights, thermal in, stay in up, getting up to like 8,000 feet, cloud base, being right there up against the clouds, which is kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you're in an airplane, you look at a window, and you kind of wish you could touch clouds.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to say, when you're face to face with a cloud that's kind of, you know, getting a little dark underneath, they don't look as friendly and inviting as they do from the ground, but it's, yeah, it was still really neat.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are listening to the podcast and you're like, what the heck you're talking about, imagine the scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: Case right now, he looks like Sean Connery, soaring above the jungle, not very
[SPEAKER_00]: Call, you want any comments to say on this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Cole doesn't know a Sean Connery's hairy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You never met him?
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, yeah, no he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, case looks like James Bond, soaring above like these mountainous mountains.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mountainous mountains.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's trees and there's like field and it is incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those cool, it was in the jungle, like, you know, in the Andes, there were 18,000 foot peaks looming in the distance clouds, rainbows, and that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, pretty incredible place.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they just got some really good flying in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that like the moab you taught of paragliding?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of really good places to fly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It depends on who you ask.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of people I love flying in the Alps.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of sites throughout South America to go fly at, but definitely Columbia is a great spot for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, tell me, did you fear death?
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... no not so much there's definitely there were a couple points where few thousand feet above ground level and airs a little turbulent you're getting pushed around a bit and you look up to see the piece of fabric that's keeping you a couple thousand feet in the air and you're like oh man how did i get here so we were talking off camera and you said that like at one point you were four thousand feet above the ground
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the landing zone was like so our instruments we have set up to show us our altitude and in meters.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the landing zone yeah was was around 4,000 feet and highest point we were getting too typically was about eight whoa yeah dude that's crazy yeah that's absolutely crazy and like did you hit any of any of like the weather that you worried about that can push you down
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... well sometimes you end up in in some sink where you're dropping faster than is ideal especially if you want to be here like plummeting now if you want to find another pocket of lift and stay up
[SPEAKER_01]: then yeah you don't want to be in sync because the sync is just kind of ruining your god.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that considered a a dangerous situation?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: As like a plane crash where they're like sir we're plummeting faster than ideal.
[SPEAKER_00]: No stopping toward the ground?
[SPEAKER_01]: No I mean your worst case scenario would be like landing in someone's backyard instead of at the landing's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: The nice thing about where we were, one of the many nice things, is that it's just all fields all over the place.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have a lot of options for where to land at, there's places that are more ideal than others to land.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I can land in someone's backyard.
[SPEAKER_01]: or in the middle of the jungle or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not great to be not great, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been really our Sean Connery.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think this is incredibly cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad you made it out in one piece, which is awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: No trees were actually hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, which is great news.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what's crazy is about this to me is like going to South America, which is already kind of an adventure and then jumping off a mountain in South America.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're running off, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you check your paraglider or do you bring it on the plane?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it was checked.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big bag.
[SPEAKER_01]: The wing packs into a backpack, but it's a big backpack, so it would not be carry on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So while case was jumping off mountains, running off mountains.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Excuse me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in New York eating hot dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm sorry if you didn't see me around much less week, but I was with my wife eating some hot dogs and watching some shows, which was awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you went to even some live taping.
[SPEAKER_00]: We went.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I saw Seth Myers recorded live, which is cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Went to the Nutcracker.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, got some good food, didn't even eat that many hunts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Only two to four.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I kind of lost track a little in the middle of the air, but it was, it was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Small number, I feel like it's pretty easy to count.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a pretty easy to count.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, two to four, you think I'd keep track.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but it was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did nothing car related.
[SPEAKER_00]: It turns out New York City kind of hates the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but we haven't heard that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, although I hate to say it after my trip, I'm a little bit more pro-trained.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do understand the merits of the train in an urban environment.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do a fairly good job of moving people around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Call, we can cut that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh no, no, I mean it was, I like the train a lot until I had to be similar like really on time and then I immediately didn't like the train.
[SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense, but somehow even the bad train experience is better than a bad car experience, because it took us 24 minutes to go three quarters of a mile.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yikes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Literally could have walked that faster at one point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's not great in a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I was doing last week and we have some big
[SPEAKER_00]: as our friend David would say.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a couple of weeks ago, I bought this Land Rover Discovery one at the auction and had a nice bucket of coolins in the back which I assumed the kind previous owner just left me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he was getting rid of his supplied coolant.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, when he was just diligent about making sure it was good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Always talk off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, so it was very kind of them to give me so much cool it Unfortunately, I realized why there was so much coolant and that the car was consuming it at a prodigious rate Yeah, plummeting through coolant faster than intended generally not a good sign right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so a quickly big game clear one of the big problems with these cars is they've had guests that go bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: It had had guests that went bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly I'm an idiot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea how to fix that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do have a friend that does know how our friend Joe who we met in Utah actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got a really cool channel called Lost Cause Rancher.
[SPEAKER_01]: He makes videos about some really bad ass rovers that he's got.
[SPEAKER_01]: How many does he have?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got like 20 or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he's got a six by six discovery too.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got that really cool range of in the back.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got that yellow discovery one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's typically one running at all times.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's nice about your disco one, honestly?
[SPEAKER_01]: It needs head gasket, that's a bummer because it's not a tiny job, but the rest of the vehicle is really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: The body is awesome, the paints and good shape, the interior is great, underneath, there's no rust.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's generally a very clean car and once a head gasket is done on it, it's going to be awesome because it's not even that high on miles.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's like 130, which in Toyota Miles is like 1.8 million.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was really well taken care of.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the only other issue I really was worried about is that I told the oil pressure light would kind of flicker on.
[SPEAKER_00]: A couple things he noticed, the oil that the previous owner had used in it, a little too thin.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the land of a recommended, a 5W30, but these engines, he said like a 10W40, they just run a little happier.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he also took the front cover off the engine and the oil pump had some scoring and just started to go bad So he's putting the oil pump in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's putting some head gas gets in it He's got a video over this channel at lost cause ranch.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can watch that I'm gonna pull up the pictures so cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked him for a while on the phone and he said that as we kind of gas case This car is actually in really really good shape
[SPEAKER_00]: So, almost completely rust free.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said one of the running board mounts had a little bit of corrosion in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was like, you want me to weld it and just get rid of the running boards.
[SPEAKER_00]: They look dumb anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's going to ditch the running boards.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the frame is super tall.
[SPEAKER_00]: The axles of the spring, like there's not even surface rust on the stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said the engine gave a part really easily.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, here's an interesting thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: When he actually, he did a leak down test, and there was a leak in the cooling system, which makes sense because he had guessed it's gone bad, but there was actually not an issue in the head gasket itself, like when he pulled the old ones off.
[SPEAKER_00]: He suspects that they'd actually been changed.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what he was noticing is he actually used,
[SPEAKER_00]: a torque wrench to pull the head gasket the head bolts off because he wanted to see what they were torqued to and he said like few of them were torqued to 161h70 foot pounds where they should be and a few of them were torqued to like 40 to 60 mm.
[SPEAKER_00]: So his theory is that when someone had done head gaskets, they didn't properly torque the head bolts.
[SPEAKER_01]: They missed a couple of weeks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they said they're like two or three that were like, and it wasn't like five or ten pound feet off.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like a hundred.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: like really really odd.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the ones at the back of the engine near cylinder 8, if I recall, those are the ones that were the loosest, and he also noticed that cylinder 8 looked pretty steam-cleaned, like it was getting a nice little bath every morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's going to put head, head, gaskets in it, he's going to put a new oil pump in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's also, apparently, you get rid of the tortealed head bolts on these.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and you go to air pea head studs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's going to put head studs in it for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you've got some cross hatching left in the cylinder there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, so overall it's going to go together again pretty nicely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, especially with some ARP, as you would imagine that and is it an upgrade of gasket?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that'd be factory.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to ask them.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good question.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to send me a part list today even with the studs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, it should be much better off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, much better shape.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the big big problem with these engines.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the head gasket.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's our constantly failing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's going to be a really good car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and what's cool about this is the reason I wanted to put the money into this one is like the majority of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see, his words were either trailed out, which is essentially they got cheap and then used hard as offered.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then they just get scratched and kind of beaten the heck.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or they just get totally neglected and not maintained in the paint's shot and then then you'd Everything and this one other than the head gasket and that oil pressure look perfect
[SPEAKER_00]: for the most part, so I think it's going to be worth it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I don't even think I'm going to do much to modify it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, I think you should keep it relatively stock because it's pretty rare to see, especially in good condition and it's cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other nice thing is that once that motor is back together and happy, those transmissions are pretty solid, those transfer cases are good, the axles are good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for the most part, it should be pretty not horrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I tell you about the tires about for it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, what did you buy?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I'm actually going to end up using it like this, but I thought it would be cool to be able to drive it around in the winter a little bit in Colorado, so I found a set of all weather tires for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they don't look as cool as an old train, but the reason I bought them, they were like a good year something.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were $295 for the set.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for all five of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: four or four of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're not getting full.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, they didn't have a fifth one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, they were date code of 22, which is why Tyrak was trying to get rid of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But 295 bucks for the set.
[SPEAKER_00]: And 22 is not old enough for that to be a problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: So great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see how my good year ditch finders end up working out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I'm excited to see that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Speaking of which, what's going on with your car?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my land rover, the difference between your land rover and my land rover, is yours has a problem with the land rover part being the engine, mine, the most problematic thing in my land rover in the entire time I've owned it, is it GM transmission?
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's quite a few people out there that would have predicted that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if you're unaware, case had this really cool discovery to, I still haven't.
[SPEAKER_00]: He still has it as far as we know you still haven't.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not currently in my possession.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he went through this really cool project of L.S.
[SPEAKER_00]: Swapping, L.S.
[SPEAKER_00]: To Swapping it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you did so much work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: The difference between case knives, I literally shift my knife to Iowa, let someone else do it and case and some buddies did this with some help, so I mean it's amazing what you did, but it's not running anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the transmission is struggling again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have it in to shop that does some swaps professionally because they know a lot more on the software side of things, I don't mind turning bolts, but I don't have the computer science degrees to mess around with all the programming.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know much about it, because everything else I've worked on is old and corroborated and that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So because the 6L80 is so heavily dependent on electronics and computers and that stupid tech-oom that lives inside of the transmission, I think that's part of the reason that this transmission has been as much of a pain as it has been, it's 100% possible to get a 6L80 to work happily in a swap or in the vehicles that they came in originally.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is definitely a little tricky.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's yeah, it's continuing to be tricky So this was a core of that engine a C-sex, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like an early C-sex and it's an alas too And when you first put it together, you it was funny like it actually came together pretty quickly with
[SPEAKER_00]: getting the engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the motors great.
[SPEAKER_01]: The motors happy makes good powers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the thing is quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a lot of power.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the thing which blows my mind is like, you bought a six LED for the project initially, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And didn't you buy one that was quote rebuilt?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so initially I bought a six LED that was rebuilt except the guy who rebuilt it stacked some apparently, because I didn't take it apart again, so I don't rebuild transmission, but nor do I, nor do I, nor do I, nor do I, nor do I want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: But apparently that six
[SPEAKER_01]: It was stacked wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you had a physical mechanical failure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was assembled incorrectly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then you had another shop rebuild the rebuild.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then mechanically it was good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you had all sorts of hardware issues or software issues getting it to talk, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that current of what happened?
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the software was taken a long time trial and error to try and get sorted out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which this is the first time I've done an engine swap.
[SPEAKER_01]: That kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's definitely been a lot of trial and error on my end of things and plenty of things that I didn't know and have learned and And continuing to learn and the software side of it was one of those and I got some help from some buddies We've eventually got the software to a point where it's where it's mission works.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, shifts But and then we took it to Moab Yeah, did the Moab video is working fine, but then it started losing gears, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it lost reverse and it just lost any forward movement at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's no there's no line pressure at the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which could be from a whole host of different things, but the next step is pulling it out and digging into it to see what's up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it will, yeah, someone saying in 4L80, we trust.
[SPEAKER_01]: for a lady seems to be in a lot of ways a better transmission but living up here in the mountains having a six feet would be really nice and so I'm gonna I'm gonna try and stick it out and get this six LED to do its thing yeah but I'm I have definitely many times considered given up on on that stupid transmission so like what's the other option if this would you have a third rebuild on it or would you
[SPEAKER_00]: go a different route altogether.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, theoretically, every manual that I've ever taken out and put back into something is just so easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're so simple, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not nearly as much to go wrong as compared to, especially a computer-controlled automatic transmission that's got so much in the way of electronics and the valve body and these clutch packs and everything that's going on with something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, I mean, a manual could be fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of prefer as you do rock rolling with it on a matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of these things, like I'm so frustrated for you because like, in theory, the hard heavy lifting is done, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the car runs and runs and drives, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the motor, the motor is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have heat in it, you have your low range works, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, all this stuff is working.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then like,
[SPEAKER_00]: the transmission which seems like it should be it's a it's like Chevrolet engine and a Chevrolet transmission like in my mind those two work pretty happy together when it is it is frustrating because at a certain point
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I get to this stage where it's like, who do I have to talk to?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I have to do to get a fresh rebuild six LAD to just work?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I will spend the money, I will, you know, trailer it to someone who knows everything about, I just, it's like, I need answers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so no, it's, it's definitely been tough, but at the same time, that's kind of, I look at this as like,
[SPEAKER_01]: hot rotting, I mean, I'm not exactly building a race car, but when you're taking on doing an engine swap in that kind of thing, you take on, take it on with the idea that you're probably going to break stuff and things are going to go wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if I wanted something to just work, turn key, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: vehicle that you can go to a dealership and buy that's what I would do but I wanted to build something and learn yeah and you're learn have that experience so yeah yeah for sure I mean I think the frustrating for the frustrating thing for me would be like you almost prefer to be driving it and then have it go bang clatter clatter because then you know for sure like something mechanically failed and like all right how do you address that mechanical thing yeah if you blow an axle how do you how do I fix that axle but with what you're
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one, sometimes, I mean, if the software is not fully sorted out, then that can have hardware consequences, you know, which is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So everybody give cases good vibes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the videos I did with that rover talking about the challenges with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a funny comment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, why didn't you just get a Tahoe, it sounds like that would have been deeper and easier.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, yeah, well, cheap, cheap and easy was not the goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of doing this.
[SPEAKER_01]: If cheap and easy was the goal, I definitely would not have bought a discovery, and I definitely would not have decided to do any engine swap in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cheap, engine swap and cheap and easy are not really compatible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that you're exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we wish you the best case and we have updates on the podcast as it comes.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the last land of a story, I had a humiliating moment yesterday, which I will never be able to live down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was coming home from our 8-day trip to New York, drove my L.R.
[SPEAKER_00]: 3 to the airport, which I loved the early.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, I'm walking out of the airport to the parking lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Where did I park my car?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm pretty sure I had a picture of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like oh, let's row oh number two in the spot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can't see my car.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what happened?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just the worst thing to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you park my car more than like four or five days, the suspension will air out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it supposed to probably not?
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it have a leak almost definitely does it have $4,500 car?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, also, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really care enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you park it for more than four days, it does look like a dog that's just pooped itself, because it just airs land.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's horrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason I couldn't find my car is because a guy in a lifted and built out 200 series land cruiser had parked like six inches from it and was completely hiding it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was so upset.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because generally, oh, I was so pissed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh, my arch nemesis has complete.
[SPEAKER_00]: That guy pulled up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Literally over-getting her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guaranteed he got out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of my crouched ass dog, and I was like, look at this idiot, that bought this land cruiser.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, look at me and my land rover.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at me and my land cruiser, I'm so much better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, oh, I wish I could talk to that guy, and prove to him that my suspension does work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, we've done a lot of good work in this podcast that to prove them wrong brutal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought it would be fun as we're entering the new year to kind of do a quick reflection on 2025 and talk about some of the best and the worst cars that case not driven this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what's a little unusual about us, at least compared to like some of the big media, let's like Edmunds or KBB, is that we buy a number of cars every year too that are
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I thought it'd be fun to kind of walk through our experiences of the cars that we've bought this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a company in personally and give our highlights and lowlights along with the new cars that we've driven and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so should we do a little back and forth?
[SPEAKER_00]: Back and forth.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll do five likes and then maybe we'll cut to some dislikes too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, what do you want to start with?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's a car this year that you really enjoyed?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go to the very front of my list.
[SPEAKER_01]: This one is going to be probably a bit of a surprise for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I really liked the final edition of the Supra, obviously the Supra's been around for a while, but especially a manual final edition.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just felt like a very special car.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had one here at the office that we got to shoot some videos with, and I brought that home with me one day after work, and then drove it into work the next day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And seeing it parked there in the driveway, it is a really cool looking car, great proportions, long hood,
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the interior.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of the electronics and switch gear are BMW that doesn't bother me because I like BMWs as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it sounds good, it handles well, it's fun to drive, nice, torquey power train.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a great car all around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think it...
[SPEAKER_00]: what you said true is like this car really does make you feel special and ultimately for twenty twenty five standards for I hate to say it it's gonna sound outrageous but not for for as much money as you'd expect so like you can get these cars in the high fifty thousand dollar range for a manual
[SPEAKER_00]: transmission super, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're still out there for a base model.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing is is, like, you get into, like, especially a challenger or charger, and you get into, like, a Mustang and, like, they're very good at going fast and straight line, but they don't feel like a special experience, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't, they don't really feel that out of the ordinary, but this car really does feel like a baby race car when you get in it, it really hugs you and kind of conforms to you, the manuals incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's properly quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it sounds good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot of fun to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's relatively analog compared to a lot of other performance cars these days.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's one that I enjoy a lot, like to have it around.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is one of those cars, like the other new cars on this list for the most part.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're driving it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I started to ask myself, what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, what would I have to sell to be able to get one of these?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And pretty much every.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, no, this was an excellent choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going away, you know, as we talked about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that ultimately, this car never really got the appreciation that it deserved.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot because that BMW connection.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But ultimately, like if you're going to have a company, build you a car with an inline 6.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one does a better than me and W, so why are we upset about it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, plus the B58's is a great engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great engine, very tunable transmission was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: I see what you're saying about, maybe some of the criticism for the interior.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a very 2015 BMW, but it still works fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't hear it, I don't dislike it at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Feels good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just drove a few weeks ago, I didn't do a video on it, but I just had 10 minutes in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you've also driven it the Z, yes, which is kind of this car's direct competitor.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't drive nearly as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to super better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also like a straight six more than a V6.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty much exclusively.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that I am a little conflicted about, though, is I do think the Z looks a lot better.
[SPEAKER_01]: You like, I think the Z is a great looking car, but the Supra is definitely not a bad looking car, and it looks like something out of a movie or a cartoon.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is very dramatized in its lines and the shape of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like if you were to have some, I don't know, maybe cartoons of weird way to describe it.
[SPEAKER_01]: it's exactly what you would kind of expect the next generation of the super following up the Mark 4 to look like because it's modernized but it's got some similar details and proportions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I like it a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's an unattractive car.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do like the retro thing that Nissan's got going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I, I don't know, I think that there's some weird proportion of the super, but as a whole as a as a thing to drive, it's so much crisper, so much more precise and engine is so much more responsive and gives a better exhaust note.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it feels more more special to me as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's kind of represented in
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe not all out sales numbers because they are both pretty low volume, but certainly use numbers.
[SPEAKER_00]: These cars really hold their value well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought it would be fun for my number five car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe he's a car in your list too.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one of the bigger surprises I drove this year was a car that we actually bought and that's our 94 Viper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'll go ahead and mention that that's all my list.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it is on your list.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we bought this car, I don't know, five, six months ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of like an on-the-wim purchase.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my dad always gets where he's like, maybe we should try a Viper.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always looked at Viper as this kind of like, Kit cars and half developed in a little toy, like, you were too good for a Viper.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that what you're saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it just too low-brow.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're a little redneck, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they have a reputation and they're kind of, I genuinely don't know what you mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but I think we both agree that this is a really phenomenal card on us.
[SPEAKER_01]: So good, this car leaves you with more of an impression.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more of an experience to drive this car than just about anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's not many other cars that have as much personality as this one does.
[SPEAKER_01]: And not only in the way that it drives, but the way it looks, the way that it's constructed, how poorly really it's constructed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the things that are missing from it, like exterior door handles, like windows that actually live in the door and roll up and down, there's, you know, cup holders.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's many, many things it doesn't have, or airbags, or traction control, or ABS, or things that keep you safe and unimportant.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I think, like... Case is talking about this a little bit, I don't know if you guys just had it publicly, but... We have like a lot of people, and even in a personalized, we have like a lot of friends that come to us to us, and they'll like get into big discussions about, like, should I buy the rogue or should I buy the CRV or should I buy the RAF4?
[SPEAKER_00]: And ultimately, it really doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: because I mean, I hate to say that we're, you know, it's my job to say that it matters, but functionally those cars operate and will serve you in March in the same way.
[SPEAKER_01]: If somebody bought a CRV instead of a RAV4, not their Vust would be like, oh, oh, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, someone bought a Dodge Hornet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that might be a problem, but...
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, those cars are so competitive and they sell in such huge numbers.
[SPEAKER_01]: You really can't go wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: So really the answer to that question when we're asked it, which one, which dealerships close?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the best deal?
[SPEAKER_00]: Which one is in a color you like?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they're both good cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think back even when we started this in 2010, there were cars that were objectively worse than other cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were Nissan products that had fundamentally flawed transmissions that were going to be expensive in the long run.
[SPEAKER_01]: genuinely bad cars in this day and age are hard to find.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're a few and far between.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's definitely vehicles that have issues, these are complex machines, and there's always problems here and there, but there's not a lot of vehicles manufactured today that are fatally flawed, you absolutely shouldn't buy it and drive it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem with that is that you end up kind of with a very homogenized experience across the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit like cross shopping, white bread.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I know there are flavor differences in some design differences in some color differences.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's ultimately going to be functional, edible food.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not going to value you, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like eating a rye bread full of razor blades.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that something you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I try to avoid it, but when you do it, it does lead to stories, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's what this car is, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always an experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And kind of like what Kees was saying earlier, like the flaws that it has, which are just ridiculous, like the fact that the convertible top just flocks around and as you drive it along and that it doesn't have windows and that the heat and the air conditioning.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the heat's okay, but the air conditioning just sucks when it was new, and the dashboards made up to jelly rolls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they're bad things objectively, but it all makes it a very exciting experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is so much fun to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: People say that they don't sound very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they sound better from the driver seat than on a clip.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't sound good on paper.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get this weird sensation in this car because it's got side pipes and there's no X pipes, you're only hearing every other exhaust pulse, where it almost kind of sounds like a surround sound system in like a movie theater, where you get the sound that kind of envelops you from both sides versus just being front or back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the car is a hell of an experience to be in, even people I've put in the passenger seat of that Viper, who's been
[SPEAKER_01]: are laughing maniacally when you get on the throttle, ring it out and shift it hard through the next gear.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is such, it's such an an experience in that vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: Does it deserve the
[SPEAKER_00]: killer reputation of being there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the thing that I've found and you have as well is in a straight line, you can manhandle the car, you can launch it hard, you can ring it out, you can snatch the next gear, all of that is is fine, what I wouldn't want to do is corner it hard because when you reach that limit, it's gone, right, there's not, there's not like a, oh, back in, starting to step out, you know, I'm going to counter steer a little, hang the tail out.
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe there's somebody out there who can, but for most people, for mere mortals, that car will make you realize just how mortal you are if you choose to take it to the limit in a corner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had this distinct memory.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty sure it was a Gran Turismo 3.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a PS2 and you could set up a cobra with all the traction aids off on your little PS2.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and you'd be driving it around your little race track with your little joysticks, and then like you take a turn too hard or you get on the gas too hard and like there was physically no way to catch it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what like a Viper's like, but the reality is on a regular every day standpoint.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like a scary car to drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you could easily drive that car to work if you had to easily drive that car, you know, on the highway and have no issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like if you're pushing it, you can even push it on a can you road up to like six tenths.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wouldn't really want to go any higher than that on a public road without a lot of runoff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at this point, I've been lucky enough to drive several hundred miles in that car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at no point did I feel
[SPEAKER_01]: on safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of the big problem with the reputation too is every Viper including ours when we bought it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tires are so expensive and hard to find.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of them on old rubber.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really old rubber.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like that career GT issue where like people don't drive them a lot and then they don't want to pay for new tires and new tires are hard to find in the weird tire sizes that they have so then they just end up on 1015 year old rubber.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bad that's a bad combination.
[SPEAKER_01]: word of wisdom, nugget of wisdom that if you can't afford to maintain a car, then you can't afford the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, go on, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good rubber on a Viper is kind of a must.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is interesting though for like $40,000, it's hard to find a car that gets more public attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, yeah, so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: To me, like a Viper is is a cool as a very, very cool car, but
[SPEAKER_00]: $40,000 through to your old Viper is cheaper than a RAF4 that we have on this list.
[SPEAKER_00]: But people still view it as like this crazy Halo Supercar.
[SPEAKER_01]: 100% yeah, I think you would be hard pressed to find another car that gets as many excited reactions.
[SPEAKER_01]: for that amount of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think it's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, like Case 7, we've actually driven it quite a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're dirt simple to own for not a lot of the drink on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So really, really worth buying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, all right, let's keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I've got some other cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we should do another on your list because we shared that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So transitioning to something totally different, going back to the new thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: A car I really liked a lot this year was the Hyundai Palisade.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Explain.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the old telly ride did this thing when it launched.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, that must have been like seven, eight years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where it looked like a Range Rover.
[SPEAKER_00]: but not in like a team in kind of way, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like it had that range over like viewership experience, but it also had a really nice interior and felt nice drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: The new Palisade does that to like even the next level.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it just is such a next level in terms of a premium feeling thing to interact with, at a price.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, at a price that's a lot less than any of of the competition from Mercedes or BMW.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to say, Hyundai Kia Genesis are putting together some very appealing vehicles, especially price-considered, and compared to the other things you would stack next to them,
[SPEAKER_01]: and they make some vehicles that are kind of hard to argue with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and I think what, you know, we were talking about like that white bread analogy.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of it is that like Honda Toyota Nissan, these companies are so huge.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many thousand employees and they're so unwilling to upset the Apple card that like every generation.
[SPEAKER_00]: is essentially the same as the old generation with a bigger screen, more LED lights, and maybe some different angles, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like every generation of Hyundai or Kia product, they just, they're like they sit down like all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what we did in the old Sonata.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we're going to do none of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to take this paper and never look at it again, and we're going to go in a completely different direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that hurt some sometimes, like the Santa Fe, the new generation is so different, that a lot of people hate the way it looks.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also think that it means that they're not bounded by like those same constraints.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel the same way, especially about vehicles at the top of that food chain, like Genesis in particular, where you get into a new Genesis and it feels like they're doing
[SPEAKER_01]: Things that are different and new, because a lot of luxury brands have been making vehicles that feel pretty similar to how they felt 10 years ago and in a luxury car You kind of want innovation and something that's new exciting and different because theoretically that should be what you're paying for yeah And Genesis 100% does that they throw in features and design elements color palettes materials all kinds of things that you've probably never seen in any other vehicle
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure, it makes him feel special, but the same things are trickling down to other products that are more affordable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that this is a great example of exactly what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now it's not super cheap like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: This one I'm showcasing here is a calligraphy with the massaging seats and the heated third row of seats.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're still looking at a vehicle that can be in the $60,000 range.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you get, you can get a really nicely equipped one for 50 or 48.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for what you're getting there, 60 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: in this day in Asia, it was not that bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cost you 110 in number, Sadie's in a GLS, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is realistic, I mean, I dead meat it in terms of material quality, just as nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: So one thing that I think they're still at that a little bit with this car is, the standard one is a pretty,
[SPEAKER_00]: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, I understand that there's still this perception of quality issues surrounding some of these brands.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like if I was looking at chopping one of these, for my personal experience, granted, I haven't owned one for more than I think we had that newest on-day for like that Santa Cruz for 20,000 miles or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: But even if I was shopping new, like these cars have a 10-year 100,000 mile warranty.
[SPEAKER_01]: To that, I would also say find me a brand in 2025 or going into 2026 that nobody thinks has any quality issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: True.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a really good point, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was my next new car.
[SPEAKER_00]: What else do you have on your like list of this year?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go with another one of the new vehicles that I drove new ish, I suppose.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's somewhere between New and Old.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a Dodge Durango Hellcat, the jailbreak.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, especially.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got to see these vehicles pretty early on in Detroit, which was very cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we got to drive one that we had here at the office.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of say the one that we had at the office, it wasn't done up too spectacularly because on the jailbreak, you can pick all kinds of crazy color combos on the interior
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically any color on the exterior, the one we had here in Colorado was a little more tame in the way that it was specced out, but it's so much fun to drive this vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get that this has been around for a long time, but I still like the interior.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a bad place to sit.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels dated compared to a lot of other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, does it bug you that this car, no?
[SPEAKER_00]: If it was a person could almost have its own driver's license.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very old.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only thing I think about when I'm driving this is the wine coming from under that hood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that vented hood with big nostrils.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see heat rising up out of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single time I'm such a douche.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single time I walked up to this car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I took it for a weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: I took it back home.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is one of those I was driving
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single time I drove walked up to it in a parking lot, I would do the remote start.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I could hear it from the outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cates is so funny because like, um, and I'm, I'm actually like the exact same way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I typically will never take a press car home in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds a little tidal, but it's just like the reality of having a lot of cars and shoffling things around, but unless there's like a car really am excited about that, I'll make time for over the weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because it's a little,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's stressful because now you're shepherding, yeah, I don't want the liability of $80,000 card to the cleave that's not mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's the main reason I don't think so homes, but sometimes if it's special enough I will do it like I also took this over on different weekend because you're really paying for that engine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: The crazy thing is this is an expensive car once again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the one we had was 79, is that something right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we compared to so many other SUVs that we've tested this year that we're updated much more recently.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have better technology, better driver assistance features, bigger screens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that crazy, but it's not that expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say when this car launched, and it's, remember when it was a one-year only limited edition, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been limited very, very many times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want to say this thing was like 90.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was like five years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that the car is actually getting cheaper, even with inflation and everything, which is the advantage of having a car that's 15 years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a lot of horsepower for the money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's a lot of horsepower, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it does a lot of things, you can pull a trailer, you put a lot of people in it because you can get it as a three row.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's spacious, so you could haul around stuff with the seats folded down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's funny, like, it being old now is almost kind of a benefit because it actually has physical buttons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I got in that thing and I'm like, wow, it's got climate controls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, woo!
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's kind of a benefit and still got apple car play.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a good stereo Yeah, it was a great car.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot about that This is a weird one.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where literally the two people will listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna tune out now But it was one of the best
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a car that we drove this year that I actually liked a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cole's hoverin' over it and he knows what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I really freaking liked that a lot, hey.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this is, we bought this, this was a total whim, it was a $2,000 Cadillac for sale right now over at peak, out of options in Denver, by the way, if you want to make it a nice plug.
[SPEAKER_00]: I swear I didn't do this just for the plug.
[SPEAKER_00]: I genuinely, like, I found myself even on my free time driving this fairly clapped out
[SPEAKER_00]: 35 year old Cadillac.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just a really interesting car.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It had a pretty cool little exhaust note.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was fast enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, it was a, it was a bit of a moonshot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: They made this car and you still sense that in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got some character.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very futuristic.
[SPEAKER_01]: They tried really hard with this car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's very much underappreciated.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's something special there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I 100% agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think the Elantez
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean my hot take on this car that everyone's going to just completely agree with.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's disagree with disagree with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that this car was targeting the Mercedes SL of like the 80s and then ultimately the one in the early 90s.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was like the R107 and the R129 is the car that everyone's wound over now, which we actually also owned.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that car literally put me to sleep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not literally.
[SPEAKER_00]: It almost put me to sleep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm 29 was cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was fine, but I also felt like
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it, it was, it was kind of like the issue I have in the Twitter series Land Cruiser, where they tried to do everything so perfectly and then what you ended up with was like, it was pretty close to being perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it also kind of just like flattened out the whole experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I can give some context to this that will help you get this point across.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, please, I'm, I'm drowning here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy likes, Tommy is such a car enthusiast and spent so much time in so many different cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: He cares not about a car based on merit, but rather how interesting the car is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I will agree that the Alante is, in a lot of ways, more interesting, it's got a more interesting story than that SL.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the DSL, I mean, it pushed the boundaries so much of the era in so many ways in terms of safety technology.
[SPEAKER_00]: It had that integrated roll hoop and the crash structure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a 27-lingue-reususpension, you know, really sophisticated, traction control, ABS.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Allante was a civil with some Italian body work, is what it was, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was also like it somehow, we've owned both the Clapped Out Allante and the somewhat Clapped Out As Hell, because that one was a little tired.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt more confident than Allante getting me home every day than the Mercedes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is fair, I think I would feel the same way in general because that R129SL is not the easiest thing to keep on the road.
[SPEAKER_01]: But definitely, I'd think the story in the background behind the Alante Howe is designed why it was made and how it was manufactured is in a lot of ways more interesting than the SL.
[SPEAKER_00]: the other thing about this car is that it was a massive flop in automotive journalist love cars that's true that flop you're right exactly right no I mean the other thing to which it's also going to get me canceled immediately here and this is where I disagree like Jason Camisa hired ease an amazing journalist will never be half as good as he is but you know he's really good at analyzing like the driving experience of these older cars right and talking about why they drive so well but the problem is like in my opinion
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're comparing a 1990-90 to a 1990, five Mercedes-Benz SL500, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're both at this day and age old cars, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, by modern standards, they both drive poorly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, any number of modern cars are gonna be faster more efficient, probably handle better in most cases.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like the driving experience, yes, it's important but if it's a luxury cruiser like this, I almost just don't care, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't mind that the Yelante was front wheel driving a little floppy because I liked the way it looked and I liked the digital gauges which were way more interesting than the Mercedes and I loved the insane stack of buttons down the middle and it's just an interesting car and I think especially for the price point of let's say you can get a really
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, some of Lentays are a little too pricey.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, you got the old guys at $123,000 for a Norstar Lentay, and which is not great.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not it.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, what else you got?
[SPEAKER_01]: let's go back over to my list.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do the last new car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's on my list because you've been doing old.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've been doing new some point.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to cross over here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the last new car that's on my list is one, you know, we won't talk too much about the price here.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is another car, and well, and I am an automobile journalist and this car is in some ways a bit of a flop, but it's the Mercedes G580, the electric G-Wagon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm not saying I like the electric G-Wagon more than a gas powered G-Wagon, but as far as any EV that we've tested all year goes,
[SPEAKER_01]: This very well may be my favorite one because it's still, it is Gwagon through and through in the way that it's constructed and obviously the styling is very much how it's always been, which part of the reason to range is not that good, but whatever, who cares.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other really cool thing about this is that we found it has a phenomenal four wheel drive system.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's a Gwagon not only a name and shape and build quality,
[SPEAKER_01]: but the fact that they put some real engineering and effort into the four-wheel drive system despite the fact that they sell it low to the ground on what look like autochrost tires.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a quad-electric motor EV that has four individual low-range gear sets for each of those electric motors.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you might be thinking, why does that matter?
[SPEAKER_01]: Genuinely, we've had plenty of issues in the past with EVs that couldn't send enough power to their electric motors on a trail to get up and over a feature, even though they've got a thousand pound feet of torque or something ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll burn out those electric motors if you send too much power to them when they're not spun up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the low range on this G580 genuinely makes it work really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it can spin in place 360 tank turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and what I'm showing here in this video if you're watching live is like, even if you're not tank turning it, it will not just drag the inside wheel like a Bronco or a Land Cruiser will do to make a tight turn, but it will overdrive the outside wheels.
[SPEAKER_01]: to make super-type turns.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a really good point in bringing up.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the first instance of any quad motor EV or really any EV I think of ever driven period where the off-road crawling low speed torque delivery doesn't just suck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's kind of intuitive like you said, like we've had Hummer EVs off-road where they have 1200 pound feet of torque, we actually have a car coming up but in the disc like list, which we can talk about, where they have like a paper, you're like, oh my God, it's got 2000 pound feet of torque or whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think GM loves there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got 28,000 pounds of, 10,000 pounds of wheel torque.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is, like you said, it's really hard to modulate unless your motor, if it's not already moving.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you're off-roading, it's a lot of start stops.
[SPEAKER_00]: Start stop where you're not moving at all or moving barely at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So having that low range is a game changer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you're allowed, you're able to spin the motor up without spinning the wheels up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get this beautiful kind of programming.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is a flawed vehicle, again, and it, well, it's incredibly expensive, and the range is not that good, but it is so nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's such a nice car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really nice to drive, but it doesn't really feel like an EV when you drive it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not everyone's going to like it, which also is reflected in sales because they've sold very poorly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I think maybe a resale is going to struggle a little bit, but maybe that's the time to get one, but then again, I think there's always a It's always a drag on people are willing to pay to be in a G-wagon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I also get the impression this car is incredibly well built, so yeah, that was really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll be for a good interview
[SPEAKER_00]: my next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to give a shout out to our Patreon viewers right now who are watching this live patreon.com slash tfl car.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a couple of comments for example from Jeff who's watching live picked up my 26th Explore Trevor last week, Living Snow Belt, got two big snowstorms already and I blasted through the snow, 114 mile daily commute, Jesus, Jeff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, love the altering tires, massage seats, blue crews, and V6.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've never driven the, that just launched Jeff Congratulations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I'm going out to death Valley next month to actually go drive it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, bro.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that'd be really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and Ford is not shy when they're doing an off-road event.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm sure you'll do something pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Jeff Congrats, I can't wait to give it a little sample.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that thing looks really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Matt says, you both risk your lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: One eating hot dogs and the other, gliding thousands of feet in the air.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, thank you for pointing out my hot dog problem again.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to go to the livestream, really quick call.
[SPEAKER_00]: We also have some people commenting on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we've got our buddy, tad is in the comments.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, he said that the super is great, unless you're tall, that's somewhat true.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're really tall, it's pretty, and, um, yeah, it's pretty uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, uh, production surgery.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't seem like he's excited about the G-Wagon, but that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a tough one to... You read a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to drive it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yeah, if you drive it, I would have a hard time picturing somebody who would get behind the wheel of that vehicle and say,
[SPEAKER_01]: terrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of with you in that, like if I had the choice between the VAG wagon and the electric one, I would choose a VAG.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I had the choice between the new inline 60 wagon they're pushing and the electric, I'm probably going electric.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I agree like it a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we'll blast through our likes and then we'll just black we'll do because he just dislikes My I think the car like the most this year that I've been really surprised about is the Our long-term were actually the Honda Passport Trail Sport
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's great all around car because that's a car on paper in a category that it's kind of once again in that bland melt toast segment But it it has some interesting design elements and some unique features that really make it stand out It's good looking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the amber running lights a lot They offer it with some cool accessories including wheels ours has the little rock sliders that are kind of hidden But oh, yeah pretty nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got good plates underneath
[SPEAKER_01]: pretty aggressive tires for something rollin' off the factory floor, especially compared to what it competes against.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good all-wheel drive system all around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We put it through some difficult challenges especially in the snow, it was a little limit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we found the limit, and you can, but it's a nice interior, it's got a naturally aspirated V6, which is pretty unusual these days.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: sound a lot of cool stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean I think you know I was making fun of the cars earlier for being boring but the good thing about boring is are typically usually just very good cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: This car is very good like a lot of other less interesting cars in the segment but then it also incorporates like you said a little bit of offer capability with the IVTM 4 system with the tires with the skid plates but it also has just a really nice interior and a perfect ride.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I brought this thing down to my in-laws house for Thanksgiving and I took them all around in it and every time anybody got in that interior they're like, wow, this color is beautiful and wow, the fit and finish is good and my wife that hates big screens and stuff is like, wow, I can use this and it's really easy and it's very intuitive and then they also think, like, oh, it looks kind of rugged like a little bit more on her but it drives better than a foreigner so it's just such a good car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, it's much better on road than a lot of the more traditional 4x4 so
[SPEAKER_01]: for somebody that's maybe shopping around for a Wrangler or Bronco, a four runner and they never plan to actually go on a trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you really like those vehicles, still go out and buy them, that's on a problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the passports may be a smarter buy because it is better on road.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's some nicer features, it's more refined.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that passport will, it's not really so much of a vehicle to take to Moab and do hard trails on, even though you guys are going to do that in a couple days.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think the thing with this car is there's just two flaws with it that are directly correlated and unfortunately to fix one would make the other worse, but it doesn't have enough ground clearance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it needs two more inches realistically.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just when you combine the wheelbase with the eight inches, it scrapes too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the few come a little disappointing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It only gets like realistically 21-22.
[SPEAKER_00]: When it doesn't have a low range, that's always going to be a limitation.
[SPEAKER_00]: True.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like if you increase your ground clearance, you're going to make the field kind of even worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I really do think this would be cool with the V6 and a hybrid system.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what would make this just knock this car out of the park for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but the passport trail sport is excellent excellent.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's such a good car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Matt said, Honda has been doing a great job with redesigns this last year saw a new passport trail sport in person for the first time and it looked awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's controversial at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great looking car.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's funny because the old one, the trail sport was like, oh, they put they put a little bit of colors on a passport.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the new one is like, holy crap.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's square and chunky and it's orange lights and it's really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's next?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you like?
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, I think this is this is the last one on my list of likes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the last one I'm bringing up, this was really kind of a bucket listing.
[SPEAKER_01]: to drive this vehicle, this is a 21 window Volkswagen bus, which is an incredibly special vehicle, they're very expensive, they're six figure cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that wasn't necessarily, well, not even necessarily, that wasn't what made it special to drive, what made it special to drive was the fact that it's very, very pretty, there's so much glass.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm driving away into a breaking news video.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh geez, give us five minutes, so we'll be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we can do our dislikes in another podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll break them up.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, do our next time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yeah, sounds good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there's tons of glass in this vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a lot of fun to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're in a crazy seating position in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: that VW boss was quite the experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that thing was incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved, loved, loved that thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I drove it a little while back at a different event.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it talking about feeling special.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a great one case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you remember to put this one on the list.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what we'll do, Cole.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll cut and we'll let Roman and honor to the breaking news video and we'll come back tomorrow with our five dislikes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll include that in this video.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, did we get through the last vehicle on your list?
[SPEAKER_00]: My last, like, my last like, which is ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a car I like, probably almost as much as any other car we've ever owned, is this dumb little fiat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand why I'm a landlord.
[SPEAKER_00]: We bought this ridiculous $3,000 worn out, clapped out, $124.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it that much?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 30, 100 bucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was less mad.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but it it's this little too see there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have any interest in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it would break down and be dumb and it is so fun to drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got the hideous malaise air bumpers, but weirdly like you drive around everybody loves it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like this is the worst of the worst version of this car.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of great sounding exhaust leak.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does have a great sounding exhaust leak.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you can hear the exhaust note.
[SPEAKER_00]: The engine is a mission's coked to high hell, but it just is such a fun little thing to zip around.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I take it everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand why I love it so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't processed it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Should probably get a therapist about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this rusty, crusty exhaust leaky 124 is a magnificent automobile.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fair enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, we're back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we had to cut the podcast because there was some breaking news.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're watching visually, it'll wardrobe change.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening, audioly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe audioly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Audioly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I might weed these in my voice dropped a little, but that's unlikely.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're gonna continue this podcast with some cars that we didn't like to see are both new and used And we're gonna start with a controversial one.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like that we bought as a car that I think case Maybe didn't prefer and that was our 2014 Tesla Model S
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're saying that's one of your dislikes or one of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: What if yours, I think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't actually put it on my list, but it has a place on there because this car was just not very well built.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tesla was definitely figuring things out at this point, because this car was a 2012, 14, 14.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so it was still pretty early into the production run.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very early considering that they're still making this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the interior didn't hold up that well.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were parts of it that were kind of coming apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: It rattled.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was quite a bit of wind noise.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a smell weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jen, our coworker who worked at a Tesla service center and is interacted with a lot of you, said that the smell of ours, which was reminiscent of like a urinal cake.
[SPEAKER_01]: was very common in these cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's I guess some glue that they use in the interior over time starts to emit the smell.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it smelled weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: It made a lot of noises.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was boring.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're in okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a very good comparison actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: It did smell a lot like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah,
[SPEAKER_00]: of a pee kind of way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually like this car quite a bit because I think for the money, which I think was 11 or 12,000 dollars, we paid for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get a lot of range, pretty good performance, and still very, very good taxome of the best tech in the industry.
[SPEAKER_00]: But objectively, you are correct in thinking that, like I don't think...
[SPEAKER_00]: it's not that the car gave us a ton of major mechanic like it never left a stranded it didn't it didn't necessarily break down we did have an issue with the heater which was annoying but everything is not really attached to anything else that inside like it just kind of goes down the road it shakes when you close the passenger door sound like a car accident.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was bad loud and classy and kind of go bane clatter clatter So that's one that I wanted to put on the list because it's when I I did actually like quite a bit But objectively it was very rattling so that's one of your dislikes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like actually I like that But I put on the list because I know you aided it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although I do you are we do have an interesting Contradiction going on here because how do you hate rattles, but also do you have a land Rover?
[SPEAKER_01]: So now that he goes a long way, Tommy.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like saying, how do you love dogs but you eat animals?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fair enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a comparison.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the comparisons of all time right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So do you actually want to give one of the cars that you actually put on your list?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a brand new vehicle that I didn't much like.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a silver Sequoia that we were testing recently with a few other SUVs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a few issues with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of them being that this was more expensive than that very fun derango that we had.
[SPEAKER_01]: In some ways, arguably more practical.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think it was enough additional practicality in this Sequoia to make more sense to me anyway than the Durango.
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely not nearly as fun or interesting, like I said, it was more expensive because it's I think it was a capstone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even being a capstone, being a luxury trim, it's not that it wasn't nice inside of had some good features,
[SPEAKER_01]: But the interior doesn't look very premium.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just all monotone black.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no interesting accent colors.
[SPEAKER_01]: To be honest, it was just dull.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think, oh,
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree with you completely on this card.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not one of my favorite titles, and I like, I do actually quite like the Tundra.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like the new Tacoma, I think, it's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem with the Sequoia, and we've actually talked to the chief engineers, it's quite a bit about this, it was a really hard sell for him to even get this card to exist.
[SPEAKER_00]: right, as I understand that Japan allegedly was like, we don't want this card to keep going, the sales numbers weren't strong enough to warn a whole new generation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they kind of had to make some will call it engineering compromises to make this card reality.
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, the last Sequoia had independent versus mention, this new is a solid axle and you're probably thinking, oh, it's tougher, it's more truck-like.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the reality is the reason that you want an independent suspension in a big SUV like this is so you can maximize the trunk space, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: and you can get the whole floor of the trunk lower.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're able to do that because you don't have to worry about this B-max of moving up and down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So with the solidar axle, it means that the trunk is really high.
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially because this one was hybrid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're all hybrid.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all hybrid standard.
[SPEAKER_00]: The third row is it's really high.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's just some compromises in the engineering that make this not as good as a Tahoe or an expedition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: No matter whether you're shopping for something fun and frivolous like the Durango or something maybe a little more practical reasonable like a Tahoe, this just didn't feel like the best option.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was pricey.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was I want to say 80 in the neighborhood of 86,000 dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I remember right, so I just remember it being very pricey and
[SPEAKER_00]: And just not that impressive, you're fair enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the next car I want to talk about is actually a car that I've driven a couple times in a couple different configurations.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I drove them both this time, that, sorry, this year, the new Audi Q5.
[SPEAKER_00]: Q5 is a huge seller for Audi and I've typically enjoyed the Q5 a lot in the past because I've always felt that it offers some driving engagement and sleek design that you wouldn't necessarily get in some of the Japanese competitors like Lexus, like Infinity.
[SPEAKER_00]: This new Q5, in my opinion, is one of the more numb and frustrating experiences of have all year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Frustrating out.
[SPEAKER_00]: The...
[SPEAKER_00]: interior layout with the complete lack of buttons is not uncommon in 2025.
[SPEAKER_00]: The interior layout with the complete lack of buttons and just some of the poor UI decisions they've made have made this car unbelievably frustrating to own and live away.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just not intuitive.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just many
[SPEAKER_00]: after menu to get to very basic things like I was driving one yesterday actually the SQ5 and I needed to adjust the fan speed because it was really really hot so I go into the climate menu and then it took me to like this quick shortcut menu where I was like well do you want to warm your feet warm your hands or cool your head like none of those I just want to turn the fan speed up then I had to go into a separate menu to like click the fan speed it was on response it was slow this car is just technology overload this is a classic example of what I'm
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of just giving you traditional American trolls a traditional lock and unlock, you can actually see by the door handle where the old style unlock lock would have been in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They give you life a blank.
[SPEAKER_00]: Haptic panel, like everything in this car is haptic.
[SPEAKER_00]: The steering wheel is haptic.
[SPEAKER_00]: The the American trolls are haptic.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lock unlock on the driver's side is haptic, it's just like with way too much.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you combine that with the fact that like the Q5 has always been the best driving car in the segment other than maybe the X3 in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this car just wasn't it, it just feels very numb.
[SPEAKER_00]: The SQ5 is pretty quick, it does sound good, but it just doesn't give you that driving pleasure that I found in previous ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds good-ish.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sounds like a V6.
[SPEAKER_01]: I heard it from across the parking lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard that some other conditions like a true cold start first thing in the morning, or maybe when it's under load and you're actually going down the road, it sounds better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, today we've been long since I'm great.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it sounded like a big vacuum cleaner.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I really think that if you look at what Volkswagen and Audi has done in this current crop of crossovers, and I'm talking things like, it really all did start with the ID4, but we've seen it in Q5, seen it in Q6, and now it's trickling into some of the newer Volkswagen products too.
[SPEAKER_00]: This UI system they're using with all this haptic stuff is just bad, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know in the next generation, because I've seen some teasers from Europe, they're actually going back to physical buttons and controls, but I think this is not going to be recognized long-term as a good era for these brands.
[SPEAKER_01]: You remember
[SPEAKER_01]: back in the earlier days of like the BMW X5 when sportier dynamic driving SUVs were becoming kind of a popular thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: How cool that was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, really X5 is a really awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: What happened?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, X5 was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: When Q7 first launched, that thing was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looked really futuristic.
[SPEAKER_00]: It had the R8 style headlights in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there was so much excitement in this category and now that's just completely got away.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they've all just been kind of homogenized.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all screens, touch-sensitive controls, which a lot of times feel like, even though, it's not the case in every situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times when you replace all physical gauges with screen and you replace all the buttons with touch-sensitive controls, it feels like cost cutting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I agree to me that doesn't feel like luxury in 2025.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right and the problem is like it really is cost cutting.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot cheaper to put every climate control in a screen that's a develop panel, develop the bezel, develop all the buttons, build all the buttons, to actually make it happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, where we're entering this era like, I remember the first time I saw a digital instrument cluster was on an L322 Range Rover in like 2009 or eight.
[UNKNOWN]: Whoa!
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, whoa, that's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then that trickles down to not just rain drovers, but to the BMWs and the Lexuses, and then it trickles down to the Mazda and the Ford, and then all of a sudden a Chevy tracks for $20,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: Brand new has all screens because screens are cheap.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now we're going back to the high high end stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: These multi-millimeter supercars are going back to like, physical dials.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because of very tactile.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we should go back.
[SPEAKER_00]: We should go back to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was what I didn't like.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's another one you didn't like this year?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna say the Wagonier S, because it's a good choice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it feels like that should have been a Chrysler.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, I don't really understand the Jeep label on it, because nothing about it is very Jeep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though we did do kind of a slip test and some very light, did we do a slip test on it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think we just took it up some really light off rodent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we took it on a really, really light trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it actually, the traction control system on it didn't do that bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it has four inches of ground clearance or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's probably a little more than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like 6.4.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's nothing, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, very, very little.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just, it doesn't feel like a Jeep.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is very fast, but not in a sporty way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: In like a, you're a slightly concerned, whether you're going to be able to control the vehicle kind of way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just a strange automobile.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've also heard reports like our friend has had one and has had tremendous reliability issues on hers.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's Nicole Waceland at Wheelbarrow, 12-volt battery, has gone flat so many times and update after update in the car as Bricked itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, this car feels both underbaked.
[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of a development standpoint and just the wrong design decisions that went into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the word I've heard from folks at Githat no longer work at Githat, what was supposed to happen is, remember a while back when they launched a big wagon here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember they didn't put a G-badge on it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they were gonna have it be its own standalone subbrand.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the plan was, the reason they came out with this car,
[SPEAKER_00]: was they wanted it to be alongside the Big Wagonier as it's own luxury subbrand.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, if you're still and you're looking for a luxury brand, Chrysler is sitting there basically doing nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Wagganier still has that Jeep association for anyone that remembers the name Wagganier.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they remember it as being a Jeep and being slightly rugged.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's fine on the bigger Wagganiers because you can spec them with some pretty decent horrible drive systems.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't think it's out of place there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this just doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this should have been a Chrysler.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it should have been a Chrysler.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, it should have been better developed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, not that it being a Chrysler would have made it in fantastic car.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but it would have been better marketing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to Jeep at the recon launch about, you know, why recon is taking so long.
[SPEAKER_00]: And basically what they said is like, we know we have to get this right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you read between the lines there, like this car is not been a success.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a reputation already.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, I think the one that we drove was 60-ish, $65,000, maybe, maybe a little bit less.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the one, this one was the limit of $55.57.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just not worth the money.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I will say there are some incredible lease deals on these.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you can pick one up for $249 a month for a couple of years, yeah, if you want to go really fast in a straight line, this is a really fast car to straight line.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not a horrible interior, and if it's covered under warranty,
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, yeah, I'm for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I drive a worse car than this every day.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, are you saying your Theod is not one of the greatest cars of 25?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it has an open recall right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to get it to the dealer.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get the headlight thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the mail, you too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what that's about.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they forgot to install a plug and the headlight adjustment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it could come out of whack.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to do it?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot of the drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is a long way to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's a little icon in the corner of mine that says perform service and that's annoying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I want to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's time.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, what about you?
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to pull out my list as a couple others.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to put on here.
[SPEAKER_01]: This, the tough thing for our likes, we didn't necessarily need a list for this list.
[SPEAKER_01]: We kind of do because part of the reason these cars we dislike is a lot of them are very forgettable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be the probably another controversial take.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, like I hate to say, the wagon here is
[SPEAKER_00]: The, this next car is not a bad car at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just disappointed that they didn't do any big changes for the new generation, in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about the new RAF4.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: RAF4, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be controversial.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is going to be controversial.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the best selling car in the USA by a big margin is the RAF4.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know that like they weren't going to, they weren't going to take any
[SPEAKER_00]: huge risk, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you look at, if you look at the structure of this car, if you look at the fact that I think the wheelbase is identical, the overall length is pretty much identical.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is more of a refresh than an actual new generation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it looks like they stuck the new four-unners front end on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's pretty much changed up the interior,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, look, they made it standard hybrid, which is great, but like if you look at the individual trim line.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, like this woodland trim doesn't really do anything beyond just some tires in a bit of cladding and a roof is kind of half-assed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at the GR sports, right, same thing like it's got tires and trim, but it doesn't give you any more performance, and it really doesn't drive any different whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's at the top goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's the XLE.
[SPEAKER_00]: There it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you actually like interact with the car, like it really doesn't feel in a substantive way, any different or really that much better than the current one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is especially disappointing in a vehicle that makes as much money as this does from a manufacturer that absolutely has
[SPEAKER_01]: the means to do something with these models.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they could a hundred percent develop a GR sport that has more power.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they could absolutely make a RAV4 woodland or TRD or whatever you want to call it that could actually compete with a Broncos sport.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Sasquatch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, package.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have the ability to do that a hundred percent or from a power train standpoint.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's great, it's all hybrid.
[SPEAKER_00]: The plug and hybrid version goes
[SPEAKER_00]: 48 or 50 miles, but that's eight more than the old one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like it's like it would have been cool if they had done like a range extended one, right, where it's all electric, but then there's a little gas generator on board.
[SPEAKER_00]: So really kind of introduce a new technology that we haven't seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know a lot of that is because like you're saying it sells so well, they don't want to you know, upset the current customer base.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just don't think that they did enough to really transform this car and push it into a new generation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly in the past, I feel like they've done a pretty good job of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like we had the transition from a really tiny tutor to the fordore, introducing the V6s, introducing the hybrids, was a huge shift, introducing the plug-in hybrid, was a huge shift, and this new generation is just kind of a whole course square.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're not doing anything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so that's probably my most controversial take, but that's how I feel about that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: My next vehicle is not so controversial.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a Silverado EV that we took to Ironclads.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there are some things that the Silverado EV does fairly well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it might be that video call.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, and this one was actually a Sierra EV.
[SPEAKER_01]: Same track.
[SPEAKER_01]: Same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are some things that this vehicle does really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have pulled a trailer for distance to see what kind of range we got.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we pulled a decently heavy trailer with a Silverado EV, I think, about 230 miles on a charge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which in an EV is pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people don't think you can do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this has got such a massive battery can really go a long way.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we did this 84 CRA EV on a very light trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was obviously it's not going to be that great.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a 9,000 pound truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you wouldn't expect it to be super athletic.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what was really irritating about this is in its off-road mode, it had this one pedal drive feature.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was not very refined because especially going downhill.
[SPEAKER_01]: you would let off the accelerator a little bit and it would lurch to a stop.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you would lean into the pedal just a little bit and then all of a sudden it would shoot forward down the rocks bottom out and it was very difficult to control.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like struggling to get up this really mild little slightly off-camera hill.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which, you know, and I get that this is not designed to be a more abcrushing rock crawling truck first and foremost, but it was just so irritating to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: All year, this was the only vehicle that at the end of this shoot, we got down our last little bit of filming and shooting B-roll, and I put the truck and park open up the door and I said, Andre, you're driving this rest of the way, I am so irritated right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will not drive this any further.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean the problem too is like if this was a street truck and you're taking off road I understand but ultimately even though you keep saying this is not a rock crawler it's still like an 84 in a trail boss like it's got bright red tow hooks sticking out the front of it and these huge offroad tires um yeah I mean I think that especially this one is totally valid and saying it wasn't very good if you're going to get a silver on a vv or cera just get the standard street going
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and like it's honestly, it's a really good truck every day.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really good for telling the light trailer like you said, even longer distances.
[SPEAKER_00]: It charges really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unladen these things never seem to run out of battery.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can go a week and a half to week without ever charging this truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they go 400 miles on a charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: But doing the thing that the off-road truck is supposed to do is terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was probably the most frustrating experience I had driving anything all year.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're crashing to a tree here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm not touching it, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the next one, this is not a hot take.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my most mild take.
[SPEAKER_00]: The new car, I think, that's got most people upset right now, because very rarely is there a case of just such blatant badge engineering.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you're not talking about the car, I think you're talking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so back in the 1980s, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you could go buy a Cadillac Cimmeron, which was obviously a Cavalier, like they didn't even, they put a different slightly different nose on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was obviously a Cavalier.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now, even like cases of badge engineering aren't necessarily like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you look at the Nissan Rogue and the Mitsubishi Outlander or Suburban in a Yukon now,
[SPEAKER_00]: pretty different they are pretty right like I know for the mentally the the mechanics are the same but they have a different look they have a different interior but there is one car that's the exception of that and that is the Nissan Rogue P. Have you seen this thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is just the Mitsubishi isn't it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so basically, I was on this program.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's literally just the Mitsubishi.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can see the headlight, the running light, the wheel design, this was got black wheels instead of silver, who cares?
[SPEAKER_00]: What it's so fiancee on, think of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So feeling even more mean to it than I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, because, here's the thing about this, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this is clearly a stop-gap model?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they know that RAF4 is kicking ass with their peeheads, their plug-in hybrids, Mitsubishi didn't, has one, Nissan doesn't have one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Next year, Nissan's coming out with an all-new rogue.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the quick and dirty way to get it in their lineup.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like the stop-gap of like, oh god, just shove something out on market.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if it sells.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, that feels just like a little ingenuous.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that the Outlanders are bad vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually been fine, it was really good when it came out like four years ago, and I actually thought it was quite a nice car, the current generation, but you know like it's it's its own thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why why try to sell it as your thing when it's very clearly not your thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't like that they copied Mitsubishi's homework.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's weird because the Mitsubishi Nissan came out the rogue.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mitsubishi came out with outlander and the we're talking about the standard gas ones and yes they were larger the same platform but Mitsubishi we did a ton of things and looked the same didn't feel the same had a third row right they came out with the p have felt very very different and now they're just trading it back to Nissan yeah this I just don't
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the dumber thing about this case is that Mitsubishi for this year is actually updating the outlet of Pheave.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can get this same car now with the Mitsubishi badge and the new outlet of Pheave has gonna have a bigger battery bigger screens.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the Nissan is stuck with the old battery in the old screen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you could just get a worse version of a car that's dirty already sell.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is not it for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand like, you know, they're trying to capitalize on something.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a vehicle that you would say there's there's almost no Really use case for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is one use case if it's in fact a lot cheaper than the musubishi true right that would that would be awesome So I'm reserving all hatred until the pricing comes out But if it's price exactly the same as a musubishi just get the Mitsubishi because the new one's gonna be even better So or wait for the new rogue This is a really weird one for me
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair, so to your point, it is kind of a, it's definitely not a hot take, it's a mild take, but it is good consumer advice for somebody that would be shopping around for this car.
[SPEAKER_01]: True, exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you guys, anything else?
[SPEAKER_01]: I do, this one is, I, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's tough because it's a historically significant car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an old car and I have a hard time saying bad things about older vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Renegade.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the right again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no problem saying bad things about the Renegade.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the DeLorean.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know why.
[SPEAKER_01]: We taught me and I drove the DeLorean, and to be honest, it is such a cool car in so many ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: The design of it is still so futuristic.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of really neat things about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is not, it does not drive well.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like typically not well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even like Tommy and I are fine with slow cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're fine with older cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy and I have the most views we've ever gotten in a video is Tommy and I driving a hundred year old for Model T. So we have no problem with older vehicles.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not we're not the most discerning customers.
[SPEAKER_01]: but the DeLorean drives way worse than it should.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's plenty of other 80s cars that drive way better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the thing is, we both have a really high-prepensity for cars that drive badly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the guy that lent it was really nice guy named Mike, and Mike, thank you so much for, it was a bucket list to be able to drive it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, it was this really interesting mix of like, it was very slow.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it really, really, so I'm like, this one, Mike had done a tremendous and extensive amount of working in this card of this condition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Getting to 88 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took over 4,000 feet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took, I mean, pretty much a half a mile to get to 88 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_01]: The fact that in the movie, in back to the future, they got to 88 in a parking lot, hilarious.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it also had this really nasty feeling of incredible fragility.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it felt,
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know like the Viper we were making fun of the Viper for feeling half bait.
[SPEAKER_00]: This feels like Some more big built it in their backyard, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean it felt kind of so fragile And then what we did in the show after this shoot is brought at home in the next morning I puked it's cool on all over his garage and then I was pretty sure we were gonna be on the hook for head gasket Because that's a common issue with these boat anchor pier v's luckily
[SPEAKER_00]: Took to a shop and it was just some hose clamps that came loose.
[SPEAKER_01]: The, so the car, I'm trying to remember, brand new the car off the factory line had 130 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is really, really slow.
[SPEAKER_01]: The steering is vague and not, not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well it's weird too like it just has like a huge amount of just bump steer like it the suspension on I know Mike It's done a lot of work to the suspension on this carpet like you hit bumps and it would react differently on every bump like it was such an unpredictable driving experience transmission felt bad steering felt bad Yeah, it was really really slow.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's a the thing about this car is it to get to
[SPEAKER_00]: Corgis car, it is very, the design is incredible, but if I put myself back in in the mid to late 1980s or I think it came out with 83-84, something like that, E2, you know, crash out being this car with the Corvette, even a malaise E82 Corvette.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had the opportunity to drive this year a 1978 C3 Corvette automatic emissions choked and that car was one of the slowest cars that drove this year and it was still probably 40% quicker than the Lorraine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even 1970's GM build quality exceeded that of the Lorraine build quality.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it is maybe one of the most stark examples of a car that writes a check that it's driving experience can't deliver.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the crazy thing is, in my mind, a nice deloring is like $35,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's double that.
[SPEAKER_00]: A good Dolores, like 80, 80, you'll 100k.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot of money for a vehicle you get in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the amount of work that you would need to put into this car, so like you could LS swap it, but then you're still not addressing the interior, which is held together with little bits of sticky things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're like, well, then you got to do the interior.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you got to redo the suspension.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you'd be in this car quarter million dollars before it has something that drives, okay, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Tommy,
[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy is not at all a fan of engine swapping or making cars faster, anything he wants to make cars slower.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to, if you want to the orient, I say,
[SPEAKER_00]: more power to you, just build a nice plinth in your garage, park it there, right, shine it up, look at it, but it's not a good card of drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even Tommy supports putting a different motor in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it or not, I can't believe that you've brought me to this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: So another car, new car that we drove that I, I think we're going to disagree about a little bit, but it's on my list because your points are right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the Volvo EX30.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the least intuitive cars I've ever been in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at that sharp truce one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't, I don't hate the design of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't hate everything about the interior and it was very quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are some things that it does well.
[SPEAKER_01]: but it was so frustrating to be in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got in this car from the office, actually started driving to the DeLorean shoot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, in that car, yeah, this car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had two bad cars this day.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bad day for days here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although driving the DeLorean was not a bad experience, but this was frustrating because I got in the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I made it about three quarters of a mile from the office.
[SPEAKER_01]: after driving for three minutes, and I had the audacity to yarn one time, and the car pops up a message on the center screen to say, you seem a little tired, maybe you should pull over and rest.
[SPEAKER_01]: After I've driven less than a mile, it's so irritating, so it's constantly, it's very sensitive, and it's monitoring you, and then the infotainment system is just impossible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is a frustrating car for me because it does a lot of things we're talking about homogeneous cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: This car is different.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a lot of really interesting design elements.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a lot of really interesting materials on the inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got like the single-stound bar across the dash, which is a very innovative idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't use a key.
[SPEAKER_00]: It uses the two windows, which is ridiculous, but like this is an example of like there's a lot that they do really write from a design and build quality standpoint.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like a rock.
[SPEAKER_00]: It actually drives really well, but the infotainment system, like there's changes for the sake of doing changes and that's the EX30 problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, like I was filming it on a short, and I wanted to show the glove box, because the glove box isn't where you'd expect on the passenger side is like right in the middle, which is kind of funky.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, there's no switch for the glove box.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like the glove box being the middle, that's funky, stop there, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Put a lever on it, that's a cool thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You've made your card different.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then they got a glove box, and then they put the control for the glove box in the screen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I went to film my TikTok and I'm like, can you go here, you click Love Box and it opens.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a glove box open, like, ah, but I forgot to click my mic in and I didn't have audio.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me do it again, so I'm like, all right, this is the glove box in this car.
[SPEAKER_00]: You go here in the screen and you push the button and the button had literally moved.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it just changed where it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: From one take to another and then I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: where to go, and then it had buried itself three menus deep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, why?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had other, talking to other journalists on this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this car I think is using a, what's supposed to be very, quote, intuitive system where it's supposed to put, that's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bubbles that it thinks you need the most where it thinks you need them, but sometimes it changes its mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, oh my God, why would I want my computer to change my mind?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where various features are at any given time?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: If nothing else, you would hope that it's consistent and it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: This car, I think another way of describing it would be that it suffers from the cyber truck problem where, like you said, you're just doing a lot of things to be different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: When there are several things in cars that are the way they are and have been for a long, long time, because it works really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you go change that arbitrarily and it just makes things more of a pain to use.
[SPEAKER_01]: So most vehicles like we were talking about the super earlier and that BMW infotainment system is a little day that's not the best to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not a deal breaker at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: The infotainment system is so difficult in this Volvo that is as good as a lot of the other things about this car are.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's bad enough to be a deal breaker for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's so glitchy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the real shame about this car is like I really love the design.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really like the driving experience of dual motors and insanely fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: The single motors relatively affordable.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they had this interior design, the level of interesting materials on this with get rid of that screen and just put like a stack of little buttons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it would be perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give it four window switches in a stack of buttons and I would have bought this car for my wife, you know, heart beat because this is exactly what we need.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as it sits with this infotainment, it's just a mess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Volos really, like I think in the EX 90, I just went on this full-volt trip.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're through scrapping the infotainment, they're putting a new one in that car altogether, and hopefully it's better because it has to be because this is just terrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's really, really bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything else?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think we're yeah that I mean it was pretty good here like like we said in other podcasts Genuinely for the most part.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very very very hard to find a bad car in 25, you know for sure And there's there's the ones that we don't prefer ourselves But some of that just comes down to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anything you're excited to drive next year?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, when's the scout coming?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I mean you're after 27 but it might we might be able to drive next year you're excited about the scout
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of everything that's upcoming period, the scouts, what I'm looking forward to the most, would be really cool if we're able at some point to drive that 900 horsepower Raptor R that we saw at SEMA with the bigger three-liter wipple, we cool, supercharger on it, that'd be fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanna drive the recon.
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah that's going to be interesting one i think that's going to be a bit of a tough sales sixty five thousand two thirty miles of range but at least it looks looks like a proper for wheel drive with doors that come off and roof that folds back so i'm excited about the recon um uh what else i'm excited slate i think will be interesting
[SPEAKER_01]: True, yeah, that's gonna be very interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that's gonna work as a vehicle But I'm excited to at least experience that absolutely yeah, yeah, and then hopefully I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that this year has been really tough on automakers We'll see what happens next year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be interested.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also the range extended ram.
[SPEAKER_00]: That'll be interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah I'm really excited to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that
[SPEAKER_00]: The 23, 2024 push of everything electric, that is proven to not have worked for a number of reasons, be it tax credits that have come and then gone, be it consumer preference, whatever have you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I think 2026 is going to be the year of the Rage Extender Plugin Hybrid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is not a bad thing, which is not a bad thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm excited about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, folks, let us know what you think in the comments below.
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we'll see you on the next one.