WEBVTT 00:00.031 --> 00:02.951 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Julie Craftscheck, and I'm UASU. 00:03.293 --> 00:05.991 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the Psychology of Relationships. 00:19.741 --> 00:31.820 [SPEAKER_02]: We talk a lot about love, commitment, even compatibility, but there's something quieter, often overlooked that determines whether a relationship can truly thrive, emotional availability. 00:32.020 --> 00:37.429 [SPEAKER_02]: Today we're diving into the psychology behind why some people could sit with their emotions, 00:37.409 --> 00:44.860 [SPEAKER_02]: hold space for your truth and connect deeply, while others seem emotionally out of reach, even if they're right next to you. 00:45.020 --> 00:53.633 [SPEAKER_02]: We're pulling from attachment theory, emotional regulation, and what psychology tells us about how emotional safety is built or broken. 00:53.813 --> 01:02.826 [SPEAKER_02]: Because here's the truth, without emotional availability, there is no real intimacy, and without safety, vulnerability doesn't stand a chance. 01:02.806 --> 01:10.293 [SPEAKER_02]: We're joined by Connor Beatin, who is the founder of Man Talks, an international men's growth and wellness organization. 01:10.553 --> 01:22.784 [SPEAKER_02]: Based in New York, originally from Vancouver, he spent nearly a decade coaching and teaching thousands of men and women on emotional intelligence, relational communication and self-leadership. 01:22.804 --> 01:32.813 [SPEAKER_02]: He blends junky and psychology, somatic therapy, breath work, and hard-won personal insight 01:32.793 --> 01:41.085 [SPEAKER_02]: Conner's own transformation from hiding and isolating in the back of his car to facing his shadow in public community fuels his mission. 01:41.326 --> 01:52.422 [SPEAKER_02]: His no BS yet compassionate approach has taken him on to stages and into rooms around the world through his top ranked Vantox podcast and his bestselling book Men's Work. 01:52.402 --> 02:00.995 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's explore what emotional availability really is, where it comes from and how it shows up or disappears in modern relationships. 02:01.436 --> 02:07.965 [SPEAKER_02]: Remember to go to Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a rating and review. 02:08.366 --> 02:11.931 [SPEAKER_02]: And better yet, a comment about what you learn from this episode. 02:12.152 --> 02:18.761 [SPEAKER_02]: This is the psychology of relationships and you're listening to an episode that might change the way you show up for love. 02:19.162 --> 02:19.843 [SPEAKER_02]: Enjoy. 02:26.438 --> 02:33.604 [SPEAKER_01]: this episode in particular we're talking about this buzz phrase emotionally available Connor. 02:33.785 --> 02:34.165 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello. 02:34.205 --> 02:35.006 [SPEAKER_01]: How are you? 02:35.026 --> 02:35.126 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 02:35.626 --> 02:36.307 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me. 02:36.847 --> 02:40.130 [SPEAKER_01]: Connor reading is our guest of honor for this episode. 02:40.150 --> 02:53.182 [SPEAKER_01]: He's also an international speaker, podcast host of the man talks podcast and works 101 with men who are looking to deepen their purpose radically improve their intimate relationships and regain confidence. 02:53.262 --> 02:56.445 [SPEAKER_01]: That seems like 02:56.425 --> 02:57.327 [SPEAKER_01]: right there. 02:57.808 --> 02:58.930 [SPEAKER_01]: Changing the world. 02:59.331 --> 03:02.798 [SPEAKER_02]: We thought you were the perfect person to talk about emotional ability. 03:04.261 --> 03:04.882 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 03:04.902 --> 03:08.169 [SPEAKER_01]: And we ought to hear this phrase emotionally available. 03:08.189 --> 03:10.413 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking for someone emotionally available. 03:10.814 --> 03:13.860 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you think being emotionally available means to you? 03:13.840 --> 03:14.581 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good question. 03:14.601 --> 03:19.586 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think everybody has their sort of subjective definition of what that looks like. 03:19.646 --> 03:27.033 [SPEAKER_00]: For me, I think emotionally available is connected to an individual's openness to a relationship. 03:27.113 --> 03:30.477 [SPEAKER_00]: I think those two things are usually tied together, right? 03:30.497 --> 03:40.607 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like when we hear the word, somebody's not emotionally available, it's usually because they're not open to having a relationship, they're not open to wanting to be connected and intimacy. 03:40.587 --> 03:46.736 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think to drill a little bit deeper, being emotionally available is about being connected and aware of one's emotions. 03:46.816 --> 03:50.962 [SPEAKER_00]: So we first need to have an understanding of like, what am I experiencing? 03:51.222 --> 03:52.644 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm mostly, what am I actually feeling? 03:52.784 --> 04:06.223 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I connected to and dialed into those aspects of myself or have I been conditioned to ignore those parts of myself in order to be strong or perceive just certain way or protect myself or whatever the case may be. 04:06.203 --> 04:22.703 [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, emotional availability is less about are we allowing other people to access us and our emotions and more about to even have an awareness of our own emotions to begin with, because we can't let other people access our emotions if we haven't access them first. 04:22.964 --> 04:25.907 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's where most people misconstruited. 04:25.927 --> 04:29.572 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I can't, you know, I can't seem to connect with his emotions. 04:29.652 --> 04:30.753 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't get his emotions. 04:30.813 --> 04:34.658 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't feel her or whatever the case may be. 04:34.638 --> 04:53.665 [SPEAKER_00]: usually an indication that either that person is protecting themselves and they don't want a lot of unpacking a few things here, but it's usually that they don't feel like they can fully trust in that dynamic or that relationship or that they haven't connected to that part of themselves to begin with. 04:53.865 --> 04:56.629 [SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe I'll maybe I'll pause it because I just said a bunch of stuff. 04:56.609 --> 04:57.811 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I'd pack away. 04:57.831 --> 04:58.371 [SPEAKER_02]: I love it. 04:58.411 --> 05:03.558 [SPEAKER_02]: But I guess maybe like I'd love to do like how does this shop differently for men and women? 05:03.578 --> 05:06.162 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I definitely think it does show up differently. 05:06.222 --> 05:07.043 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 05:07.063 --> 05:11.248 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, sometimes I break this down until the mask and the feminine. 05:11.288 --> 05:17.757 [SPEAKER_00]: So rather than going between men and women specifically looking at the mask and the feminine, which you know, or sort of 05:17.737 --> 05:19.380 [SPEAKER_00]: energies, right? 05:19.460 --> 05:24.689 [SPEAKER_00]: Carl Jung called them the anima and the animus and that represented the feminine and the masculine. 05:24.910 --> 05:26.352 [SPEAKER_00]: We could use union young. 05:26.372 --> 05:30.239 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's a couple different ways to look at that, but it's just a framework. 05:30.259 --> 05:37.192 [SPEAKER_00]: I think for the men and traditionally masculine, we have been told a few things, right? 05:37.212 --> 05:41.179 [SPEAKER_00]: Generally men growing up hearing things like, you know, real men don't cry. 05:41.159 --> 05:52.018 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a bit of an indoctrination to hide certain emotions, to not feel certain things, or at the very least to not allow other people to witness those parts of us, right? 05:52.039 --> 05:53.742 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we feel them behind closed doors. 05:53.782 --> 05:56.987 [SPEAKER_00]: And I usually call this the one rule of men, right? 05:57.027 --> 06:01.135 [SPEAKER_00]: The one rule of men is very similar to Fight Club, which is first rule of Fight Club. 06:01.155 --> 06:02.357 [SPEAKER_00]: Because you don't talk about Fight Club. 06:02.337 --> 06:13.402 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first rule of being a man is you don't talk about what it's like to be a man and a lot of that is about emotional availability and a lot of that is about emotional connections. 06:13.522 --> 06:19.796 [SPEAKER_00]: So when we say things like, you know, don't don't guys wear on your podcast. 06:19.816 --> 06:19.996 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 06:20.538 --> 06:21.139 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 06:21.119 --> 06:37.198 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, when a guy here sings like, you know, don't be such a fucking pussy or a man up or whatever the case may be, what he's being told and what men are often told is that there is strength in emotional suppression, okay, strength in emotional suppression. 06:37.258 --> 06:50.974 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I think the big difference between men and women or the masculine and feminine is that men are often taught and told that they will be perceived as stronger for emotionally suppression, 06:50.954 --> 06:57.442 [SPEAKER_00]: for not showing certain emotions, for not connecting to those emotions within them or expressing them. 06:57.763 --> 07:06.835 [SPEAKER_00]: I think women have quite a bit more liberty or permission, I guess you could say, culturally, to be connected with their emotions. 07:07.335 --> 07:10.279 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's also an expectation that's pressed on women, that 07:10.259 --> 07:19.312 [SPEAKER_00]: It should be emotionally intelligent that you should be connected to your emotions, that you should be the emotionally available one in the relationship that's your job and responsibility. 07:19.332 --> 07:26.883 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a lot of indoctrination that women experience where they're sort of told like you should be emotionally connected. 07:26.903 --> 07:28.065 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're not, there's something wrong. 07:28.506 --> 07:30.208 [SPEAKER_00]: And so those are sort of. 07:30.188 --> 07:44.003 [SPEAKER_00]: the two different sides of the coin, what we see and this sort of shifted quite a bit in modern-day relationships where there are a lot of more masculine-oriented women, and there's a lot of more feminine-oriented men. 07:44.303 --> 07:54.054 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there are a lot of men who are starting to connect to their emotional bodies, and there's a lot of women who are starting to connect to this very sort of a sort of aspect within themselves. 07:54.554 --> 07:59.740 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's interesting because if you talk to some people 07:59.720 --> 08:11.571 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, one of the challenges that let's just say, someone that I've that have reached that to me pretty regularly will say is like, I have trouble finding a man that can handle me, right? 08:11.591 --> 08:14.278 [SPEAKER_00]: I have trouble finding a man. 08:14.298 --> 08:14.458 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes. 08:14.479 --> 08:15.822 [SPEAKER_02]: I have to identify with that. 08:15.802 --> 08:22.798 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's like, you know, it's like, I've been told that I'm too much or I'm too heart to handle or, you know, whatever the case may be. 08:23.259 --> 08:34.384 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's many different iterations of this, but for for some, it's an indicator that they've maybe overidentified with certain masculine qualities within them. 08:34.364 --> 08:43.981 [SPEAKER_00]: And a man is confronted because when they start dating, he doesn't feel like he's getting the full emotional aspects to her. 08:44.041 --> 08:49.610 [SPEAKER_00]: So he might be used to dating some women that are very connected to their emotions and maybe their emotional. 08:49.971 --> 08:55.140 [SPEAKER_00]: And all of a sudden he's dating a woman that is not bringing a lot of her emotions into the relationship. 08:55.120 --> 08:58.104 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he's kind of like, oh, what do I do here? 08:58.144 --> 08:58.865 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I handle this? 08:58.905 --> 09:00.507 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just had a bunch of stuff. 09:00.567 --> 09:01.788 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, so I'm going to pause there. 09:02.389 --> 09:04.952 [SPEAKER_01]: This is so good because we're unpacking so much. 09:05.053 --> 09:06.234 [SPEAKER_01]: I find that exactly. 09:06.254 --> 09:09.719 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, a lot of me have this situation very interesting because things are changing. 09:09.779 --> 09:18.530 [SPEAKER_01]: I do feel like speaking in the feminine and the masculine energies is the right way to do it because I gender roles are very much blurred now. 09:18.610 --> 09:20.352 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just thinking back to my like, 09:20.332 --> 09:33.288 [SPEAKER_01]: 20s and how my girlfriend stated they always said I want a man who's emotionally available and then I see the way they're raising their sons and it's how many girlfriends do you have of she doesn't like you back you ignore her. 09:33.548 --> 09:41.358 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, don't don't cry in front of her, but so they kind of are raising their sons in a way that they wouldn't want to date a man. 09:41.619 --> 09:49.208 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm guessing part of your work is really to reconcile that like how do you undo all those years of suppressing your emotions. 09:49.188 --> 09:49.489 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 09:49.509 --> 09:50.231 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good question. 09:50.351 --> 09:57.531 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, first I think is important to come into contact of the impact that it's been having on the individual. 09:57.812 --> 09:58.033 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 09:58.053 --> 10:04.210 [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of men first need to come into contact with like what's the price that I've been paying for this emotional suppression. 10:04.190 --> 10:07.799 [SPEAKER_00]: Generally, it's a lack of true intimacy, right? 10:07.819 --> 10:11.067 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll really be desiring intimacy, closeness, connection. 10:11.348 --> 10:19.067 [SPEAKER_00]: But what they're experiencing and what they're getting is actually, you know, a lot of loneliness, a lot of isolation, they feel disconnected from their partner. 10:19.107 --> 10:21.473 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not getting their needs met in the relationship. 10:21.453 --> 10:27.284 [SPEAKER_00]: And so first we need to come into contact with like what what's the price of your paying for this emotional avoidance. 10:27.304 --> 10:37.744 [SPEAKER_00]: The next thing is to start to realize that there is an immense amount of strength and freedom, which the masculine craves within all of us, right? 10:37.784 --> 10:43.174 [SPEAKER_00]: The masculine with it all of us desires a deep sense of freedom and purpose and direction. 10:43.154 --> 10:45.339 [SPEAKER_00]: and order and structure and all those things. 10:45.540 --> 10:49.770 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the masculine is sort of looking for that type of freedom and liberation. 10:49.971 --> 10:55.083 [SPEAKER_00]: But when we are withholding, we are actually going against our true nature. 10:55.725 --> 11:00.657 [SPEAKER_00]: So we start to unpack with a lot of men, how are you feeling constricted? 11:00.637 --> 11:00.937 [SPEAKER_00]: right? 11:00.957 --> 11:02.519 [SPEAKER_00]: How are you playing small? 11:02.579 --> 11:05.781 [SPEAKER_00]: How is your relationship suffering because of this part? 11:06.082 --> 11:08.664 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and so it's starting to explore those aspects. 11:08.784 --> 11:18.232 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I think the last piece is talking about, you know, Bernie Brown's going to great quote where she says something along the lines of, there is no courage without vulnerability. 11:18.432 --> 11:19.513 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't exist. 11:19.533 --> 11:25.699 [SPEAKER_00]: And you you simply cannot have courage without falling, but you cannot be brave without vulnerability. 11:25.919 --> 11:30.643 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's 11:30.623 --> 11:55.146 [SPEAKER_00]: the scary view word for a lot of men that is getting tossed around a lot right and so I think a lot of guys here I need to be more vulnerable I need to be more open you know women want me to be more open and more vulnerable like what does that even mean what are I even stars right and so it's about moving it more towards what does real strength look like you know not this strength that 11:55.126 --> 11:58.351 [SPEAKER_00]: or lie about things, or suppress how you're feeling. 11:58.531 --> 12:04.640 [SPEAKER_00]: But what does strength look like from a courageous space where you're getting to be honest? 12:04.901 --> 12:06.062 [SPEAKER_00]: We're getting to be transparent. 12:06.122 --> 12:11.390 [SPEAKER_00]: Because there is a certain level of vulnerability around saying, hey, here's the kind of sex that I want to explore. 12:12.011 --> 12:20.644 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I want things to look like in the bedroom, or I'm really into you and that feels foreign to me. 12:20.624 --> 12:26.009 [SPEAKER_00]: So these types of things, you know, it really is about training and how do I say this? 12:26.209 --> 12:36.679 [SPEAKER_00]: It's about allowing a man to deprogram these old narratives that are that are preventing him from actually having the quality of relation to that he's looking for. 12:37.059 --> 12:43.705 [SPEAKER_00]: And sending him on a journey of developing a deeper sense of self resiliency and self leadership. 12:43.846 --> 12:48.690 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we are not leading ourselves effectively when we are suppressing, we're just not. 12:48.670 --> 12:50.192 [SPEAKER_00]: We're hiding. 12:50.272 --> 12:51.713 [SPEAKER_00]: We're having to hide a lie. 12:51.813 --> 12:54.036 [SPEAKER_00]: We're having to pretend like we don't feel a certain way. 12:54.216 --> 12:59.081 [SPEAKER_00]: We're having to continue to sort of wallow in our own dysfunction and want something different. 12:59.161 --> 13:01.684 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, want more and we can never be satiated. 13:01.964 --> 13:08.892 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is this is really a part of masculine maturation of a man's initiation. 13:09.292 --> 13:14.458 [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, most men in our culture are missing this 13:14.438 --> 13:23.899 [SPEAKER_00]: part where we're severely lacking on initiation, rituals, and initiating men into more mature versions of themselves. 13:24.080 --> 13:27.508 [SPEAKER_00]: So these are the types of pieces that they need to start to explore. 13:27.528 --> 13:31.637 [SPEAKER_00]: And really, I think for a lot of men, it does come down to self leadership. 13:31.617 --> 13:31.918 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 13:31.938 --> 13:55.718 [SPEAKER_00]: So, so teaching them some of the skill sets of self leadership, because I think for a lot of guys and and for a lot of women that they're dating, what a lot of women are looking for is a man who is leading himself, right, who knows how to connect with those emotions, who knows how to speak about what he wants, who knows how to own what he wants and and be able to bring that into the relationship so that she doesn't have to guess. 13:55.698 --> 14:03.532 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, because I think that the worst thing for the feminine, I think an often worst thing for women is like not knowing what the hell I mean. 14:03.552 --> 14:06.016 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, what the fuck is going on? 14:06.036 --> 14:07.378 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we make shit up. 14:07.398 --> 14:07.599 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 14:07.779 --> 14:07.999 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 14:08.360 --> 14:08.921 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 14:08.941 --> 14:10.985 [SPEAKER_00]: And then there's just a tremendous story going on. 14:11.025 --> 14:11.766 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 14:12.235 --> 14:25.961 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to go to you to your personal story because I saw on your bio and I think this is a super interesting line that you said that you bought into the most dangerous rule of men if you're struggling don't talk about it. 14:26.221 --> 14:34.497 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell us a little more about like what you are going through and how you kind of got out of this into the evolved emotionally available menu are today. 14:34.477 --> 14:41.486 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, I mean, for a number of years, I'm trying to condense that I'm going to try and condense this. 14:42.808 --> 14:47.014 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to just be like, how don't you pass my whole life into like five times. 14:48.455 --> 14:54.223 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, in it's shortest version possible for a number of years, I, 14:54.203 --> 14:59.072 [SPEAKER_00]: put out this very well-manicured mask into the world, right? 14:59.112 --> 15:01.476 [SPEAKER_00]: And I lived what I thought a man should be. 15:01.556 --> 15:12.837 [SPEAKER_00]: I worked construction, I rode motorcycles, I street-raced, I drank a lot, you know, I got into bar fights, I slept around, I like, I did that thing. 15:12.817 --> 15:16.043 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also explored the other, you know, like the other side of things. 15:16.143 --> 15:16.924 [SPEAKER_00]: I sang opera. 15:16.964 --> 15:19.108 [SPEAKER_00]: I like, you know, I traveled the world. 15:19.308 --> 15:20.951 [SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, did did all those parts. 15:21.392 --> 15:25.178 [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of reached a place in my life where I had a great girlfriend. 15:25.198 --> 15:26.340 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a great relationship. 15:26.520 --> 15:27.522 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a great career. 15:27.542 --> 15:29.726 [SPEAKER_00]: I had the toys and motorcycles of cars. 15:29.746 --> 15:30.387 [SPEAKER_00]: Yadayada. 15:30.367 --> 15:36.258 [SPEAKER_00]: And behind the scenes I was miserable, you know, I was unfaithful, I was cheating a lot, I was lying a lot. 15:37.200 --> 15:42.010 [SPEAKER_00]: I was watching copious amounts of pornography, like it was just, I was out of control. 15:42.230 --> 15:48.983 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the simplest way to say it, but nobody knew that I was out of control, not a soul. 15:48.963 --> 15:52.848 [SPEAKER_00]: And my life came to a rock bottom moment, right? 15:52.888 --> 15:58.096 [SPEAKER_00]: I had a sort of crash or collapse where I got caught cheating. 15:58.476 --> 16:01.680 [SPEAKER_00]: My career started to fall apart and I didn't want anybody to know. 16:01.741 --> 16:02.662 [SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't tell anybody. 16:02.682 --> 16:04.504 [SPEAKER_00]: So I lived out of the back of my car for a few weeks. 16:05.085 --> 16:06.307 [SPEAKER_00]: And I hid. 16:06.327 --> 16:07.328 [SPEAKER_00]: I tried to hide. 16:07.368 --> 16:14.498 [SPEAKER_00]: I tried to double down on everything that I had been doing up into that point, which most of us, you know, do we hold on for a slice possible? 16:14.478 --> 16:39.422 [SPEAKER_00]: And and eventually I realized that that wasn't working and that this method of avoidance and suppression and, you know, hiding my own pain, hiding where I felt lost or depressed or where I was really angry at life or my family or whatever the case may be, that hiding that stuff wasn't working. 16:39.402 --> 16:42.448 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I started to connect with some of the other men in my life. 16:42.508 --> 16:44.352 [SPEAKER_00]: I started to tell my friends what was going on. 16:44.753 --> 16:47.338 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything just started to unfold out of that space. 16:47.579 --> 16:55.555 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I spent the next two and a half years diving into personal work and working with the mentor and, you know, doing therapy. 16:55.535 --> 16:59.300 [SPEAKER_00]: studying Jungian psychology and like et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 16:59.601 --> 17:11.718 [SPEAKER_00]: And it brought me to this place where I realized that that suppression and this sort of core wound that we all carry of feeling like we don't belong, we're feeling that like we're not enough. 17:12.039 --> 17:13.160 [SPEAKER_00]: He is really damaging. 17:13.420 --> 17:19.048 [SPEAKER_00]: And when we hide the ways in which we feel like we're not enough, we are never associated. 17:19.329 --> 17:23.635 [SPEAKER_00]: We never really 17:23.615 --> 17:35.637 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, it was a long journey for me to get to where I am today being married and having a child on the way and running a really successful company and working with men and it was it's a long journey, you know, it's been almost a decade. 17:35.797 --> 17:44.813 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think some of the integral parts along the way for me as a man was finding a mentor was finding another group of men where I could be open and transparent. 17:44.793 --> 17:51.079 [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of men in our modern culture, lack, real masculine, real male relationships. 17:51.399 --> 17:57.285 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they might have a lot of female relationships, but you very, very disconnected from the men in their life. 17:57.605 --> 18:01.609 [SPEAKER_00]: And for a lot of men, that's very, it's sad. 18:01.869 --> 18:04.491 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like when we get down to it, it's sad. 18:04.672 --> 18:11.458 [SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of the men that I speak with, they feel like they don't know how to make friendships with men, they feel like they don't, they can't be open or transparent. 18:11.438 --> 18:17.246 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's something disconnecting about that with their own gender, with their own identity. 18:17.266 --> 18:19.650 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I am a man, but I can't connect with men. 18:19.870 --> 18:24.016 [SPEAKER_00]: So how can you connect with the man and you if you can't connect with the man in your life? 18:24.096 --> 18:34.932 [SPEAKER_01]: And then going back to that, because this is this is hitting a chord with me, because I do have a lot of male friends who say to me that I'm waiting for my rock bottom moment. 18:34.912 --> 18:42.183 [SPEAKER_01]: They're basically taking initiative to get in trouble in life so that they can flip their life around. 18:42.223 --> 18:49.653 [SPEAKER_01]: They kind of want that two weeks in the back of a car being caught with this and that so that they can turn their their life around. 18:50.054 --> 18:56.363 [SPEAKER_01]: And I find that very dangerous because that's a dark hole that some people may not be able to crawl out of. 18:56.343 --> 19:05.256 [SPEAKER_01]: So what are some ways that people can prevent going to that rock bottom moment and still turn their life around with great motivation and courage? 19:05.476 --> 19:11.825 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, really, really a student observation, I would say, and it's a really important question. 19:11.945 --> 19:22.941 [SPEAKER_00]: And because it is true, you know, a lot of the men, there's a great saying that the therapist Francis Weller has he says, 19:22.921 --> 19:23.462 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 19:23.482 --> 19:23.702 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 19:23.722 --> 19:45.722 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the idea here is that and this is true often that men we have this hurdle that we need to overcome this stigma that you're your fucked your broken as a man if you need help right it's it's such it and it and again this is part of the lack of initiation that a lot of men experience. 20:03.657 --> 20:09.083 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing, and so a lot of men, they don't feel like they've fully entered into adulthood. 20:09.324 --> 20:17.814 [SPEAKER_00]: When you really drill down psychologically, I've met a lot of men that are in their 30s and 40s and 50s and sometimes even 60s when they come into the work. 20:18.174 --> 20:32.972 [SPEAKER_00]: And what I met with is an adult, a man who has a tremendous amount of responsibility who has a family who's running a company or has a career and still on the inside feels out of control and like a child. 20:32.952 --> 20:37.137 [SPEAKER_00]: because nothing has, he's never had an initiatory experience. 20:37.157 --> 20:40.541 [SPEAKER_00]: And so what a lot of men do is they create those. 20:40.741 --> 20:46.407 [SPEAKER_00]: They crave that rock bottom moment so that they can go through an initiations. 20:46.447 --> 20:51.453 [SPEAKER_00]: They can feel like they've gone through an initiation process to say, I overcame that thing. 20:51.493 --> 20:52.454 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what it was for me. 20:52.474 --> 20:54.176 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I overcame that thing. 20:54.216 --> 20:56.879 [SPEAKER_00]: I got through it, I didn't take my own life. 20:57.019 --> 21:00.343 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't leave this world, even though I may have thought about it. 21:00.323 --> 21:05.669 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think for a lot of men, that's what rock bottom symbolizes for them. 21:05.689 --> 21:06.289 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing. 21:06.309 --> 21:08.171 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a dark night of the soul, right? 21:08.191 --> 21:09.453 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, exactly. 21:09.473 --> 21:22.086 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's going through that experience where we sort of come into contact with death in some way, whether it's the death of our ego or of a relationship or of our career or whatever that might be. 21:22.247 --> 21:25.470 [SPEAKER_00]: And so to answer your question more directly, 21:25.450 --> 21:28.194 [SPEAKER_00]: We can create those experiences, right? 21:28.294 --> 21:35.383 [SPEAKER_00]: We can identify that we're pulling ourselves down a path of self-destruction, you know, men and women alike. 21:35.503 --> 21:37.626 [SPEAKER_00]: We all self-destruct in some ways, right? 21:37.666 --> 21:40.670 [SPEAKER_00]: The shadow of our mind, our pain, right? 21:40.690 --> 21:44.775 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, there's another wonderful thing that says our pain has its own intelligence. 21:44.755 --> 21:47.400 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's always trying to be witnessed, it's always trying to be heard. 21:47.581 --> 21:50.627 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that pain is constantly trying to get our attention. 21:50.687 --> 21:55.296 [SPEAKER_00]: So we as men can identify, I'm sabotaging the shit out of my relationship. 21:55.337 --> 22:03.473 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm cheating, I'm on faith, I'm lying, or like I'm I'm fucking at my career, or I'm really destroying my body and my mind. 22:03.453 --> 22:32.211 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in my health and we can identify that maybe that's because we haven't been taught or trained or shown how to be mature adults or we have missed something right we missed something important and and perhaps that's you know having other men see us grief or having somebody witnessed our pain or having somebody to sit with so that we can say I had a rough go or I'm having a rough go and I don't know how to deal with that. 22:32.191 --> 22:43.429 [SPEAKER_00]: and to come back in a contact with the reality that we're not completely alone, you can move towards that rock bottom and wait for it to happen or you can bring yourself to it. 22:43.569 --> 22:50.200 [SPEAKER_00]: You can bring yourself to that initiation experience by seeking out other people that have maybe gone through that and can support you through it. 22:50.180 --> 23:10.348 [SPEAKER_00]: and that you are not less of a man but will be more of one by doing that and and that you'll be able to actualize a part of your masculinity that maybe you've been trying to carve or build or construct but haven't been able to because again a lot of these men from what my experiences just feel out of control. 23:10.328 --> 23:19.361 [SPEAKER_00]: in some way and there's a lot of shame about being out of control because the masculine within us we confuse order and structure with control. 23:19.381 --> 23:23.727 [SPEAKER_00]: So we think that we should be in control when what we actually need is just order and structure. 23:23.947 --> 23:25.028 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll pause there. 23:25.269 --> 23:39.188 [SPEAKER_02]: With what you were just saying with like doing the work like how can women see if men are emotionally available, especially in like the early stages of dating when you may just not know 23:39.218 --> 23:40.460 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a good question. 23:40.841 --> 23:44.087 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think a few things, one, it'll probably feel confronting. 23:44.287 --> 23:45.409 [SPEAKER_00]: It might feel a little foreign. 23:47.493 --> 23:54.325 [SPEAKER_00]: But a man that's done his work will have some internal structure in order in his life, he'll be able to 23:54.305 --> 23:58.373 [SPEAKER_00]: set boundaries to be clear about what he wants and where he is. 23:58.393 --> 24:06.748 [SPEAKER_00]: So you'll come into contact with the man who knows what he wants and there's a little bit more clarity there if he's done some internal work. 24:06.788 --> 24:10.435 [SPEAKER_00]: So it'll it'll feel in some ways more safe. 24:10.776 --> 24:13.461 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess you could say I'm trying to describe this from from 24:13.441 --> 24:16.188 [SPEAKER_00]: lens, but it'll feel a little bit more safe. 24:16.589 --> 24:26.455 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll feel like you have a better idea of where the relationship is going, because because he'll be honest about it, he'll be transparent about it, he'll be able to say, this is what I want. 24:26.595 --> 24:30.285 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I want an open relationship, or I'm just looking 24:30.265 --> 24:36.074 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, have sex or I'm actually looking for a committed long-term relationship, is that what you want as well. 24:36.515 --> 24:40.441 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you'll feel more clarity from him. 24:40.762 --> 24:45.109 [SPEAKER_00]: So those are some indicators that a man has sort of stepped into that. 24:45.389 --> 24:47.312 [SPEAKER_00]: And also he'll talk about 24:47.292 --> 24:50.940 [SPEAKER_00]: Ideally, he'll talk about his own growth and development. 24:51.140 --> 24:54.989 [SPEAKER_00]: So there'll be a humility within him. 24:55.069 --> 25:04.930 [SPEAKER_00]: He'll be able to speak about his fuckups and some of the challenges that he's faced and obstacles that he's overcome because those things won't be things that he's ashamed of. 25:04.910 --> 25:12.786 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there'll be this balance of humility, but also a sort of clarity and confidence that he'll embody. 25:13.227 --> 25:25.753 [SPEAKER_00]: And but I think the bigger thing that I would really encourage, we're using a heterosexual dynamic, but what I really encourage women to to be conscious of is how they feel in their body. 25:25.733 --> 25:38.249 [SPEAKER_00]: around the men that they're dating because a man that isn't doing the work or isn't present within himself will feel different in a woman's body from my experience. 25:38.289 --> 25:45.058 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going off of just the work that I've done and what my wife communicates and all of these types of things. 25:45.038 --> 26:00.162 [SPEAKER_00]: But a man that's the best so I was like a man that a man that's in the work and is clear and direct and what he wants will feel different in your body then a man that feels chaotic right then a man who hasn't done those things. 26:00.142 --> 26:15.872 [SPEAKER_00]: And generally, again, there's an ease and a comfort and an experience of safety that comes along with some of those things not doesn't mean that he's responsible for giving you that, but it does mean that you experience those things. 26:15.852 --> 26:22.828 [SPEAKER_00]: when dating, when dating a man that's in that stage, um, when dating a man that's in that in that face. 26:22.848 --> 26:33.372 [SPEAKER_00]: So those are some of the things to look for the biggest indicator that I can give you is how it feels in your body to be around him because the majority of men that aren't doing the work, you'll feel it. 26:33.352 --> 26:48.880 [SPEAKER_00]: and you'll feel a mistrust and you'll feel and again this is predicated on you know if you have a lot of trauma and stuff like that or betrayal that you're working through then that's a little bit more cumbersome but even then there'll still be a deeper 26:48.860 --> 27:10.001 [SPEAKER_00]: quality of safety within your body with that man, because some, you know, your intuition, your physical sensation, your emotional body, your spiritual body will tune into him and know that it's a little bit more safe with him than with somebody who is, you know, just looking to have a one-night stand, but is telling you that they what they want is something else, right? 27:10.021 --> 27:11.644 [SPEAKER_01]: Like you'll be right absolutely. 27:11.624 --> 27:15.328 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just curious, those are indicators from the receiving end. 27:15.669 --> 27:25.200 [SPEAKER_01]: What are some indicators that you can find in yourself to say, ah, I think I am emotionally available, because I do think this phrase gets thrown around quite carelessly. 27:25.220 --> 27:29.966 [SPEAKER_01]: I think people will use it in the way they talk about, I'm self-aware, but are you really? 27:30.126 --> 27:40.939 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think for women, especially gets confusing, because I think being emotional, emotional, and open relationships, does it necessarily make you emotionally available? 27:40.919 --> 27:44.845 [SPEAKER_01]: So what are some indicators that we can recognize in ourselves to know, I think, come there? 27:45.907 --> 27:46.809 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a good question. 27:47.229 --> 27:50.495 [SPEAKER_00]: So a few things that I would maybe point to. 27:50.735 --> 27:59.209 [SPEAKER_00]: The first one is we know that we're a little bit more emotionally available because we are reflecting inward. 27:59.389 --> 28:01.833 [SPEAKER_00]: We're looking inward for some of our own answers. 28:01.954 --> 28:05.059 [SPEAKER_00]: We're looking inward for does this feel right for me? 28:05.079 --> 28:07.703 [SPEAKER_00]: We're seeking less validation externally. 28:07.683 --> 28:09.326 [SPEAKER_00]: we're seeking less praise. 28:09.526 --> 28:10.748 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to prove less. 28:11.069 --> 28:12.551 [SPEAKER_00]: That's another big one, right? 28:12.651 --> 28:16.998 [SPEAKER_00]: So for a lot of people that aren't emotionally available, they're constantly trying to prove, right? 28:17.038 --> 28:18.721 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to prove to you that I'm emotionally available. 28:18.741 --> 28:19.723 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to prove to you that I'm ready. 28:19.743 --> 28:20.444 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to prove to you. 28:20.464 --> 28:20.965 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, look at me. 28:20.985 --> 28:21.245 [SPEAKER_00]: Look at me. 28:21.265 --> 28:21.626 [SPEAKER_00]: Look at me. 28:21.866 --> 28:28.257 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there's a quality of being connected to a certainty within us. 28:28.237 --> 28:30.660 [SPEAKER_00]: that says, I am ready for this. 28:30.961 --> 28:32.363 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a knowingness. 28:32.383 --> 28:35.327 [SPEAKER_00]: So those are a few things that we can look for within ourselves. 28:35.427 --> 28:53.974 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, we've done the work to get to a place where we're a little bit more clear on what it is that we want, where we're not seeking so much validation, where we're able to tend to our own self-worth and we're able to give ourselves not an arrogant way, the things that 28:53.954 --> 29:18.516 [SPEAKER_00]: But in a grounded way right where we can say I'm actually I'm good on my own and I really enjoy being on my own Which is hard in this time right now because we're all fucking quarantined People are like I'm actually tired of being alone Give me some damn you know dates and I feel like I'm totally fine with it And I'm also like it by too much Can you be too emotionally available? 29:18.576 --> 29:19.817 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a follow up question. 29:19.837 --> 29:21.919 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes 29:22.456 --> 29:24.859 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, so I love this. 29:24.879 --> 29:27.203 [SPEAKER_00]: So vulnerability is earned. 29:27.383 --> 29:28.805 [SPEAKER_00]: So can you be too emotional and available? 29:29.025 --> 29:30.187 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, right? 29:30.267 --> 29:39.420 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are a lot of people that will use vulnerability that will use their emotions unconsciously often as a means of luring people in. 29:39.740 --> 29:46.510 [SPEAKER_00]: As a means of creating really quick, really close, really like fiery, it feels super intense, right? 29:46.530 --> 29:48.733 [SPEAKER_00]: It's sort of like love addict archetype. 29:48.713 --> 29:56.166 [SPEAKER_00]: that is so open all the time, just open open, that they sort of attract everything in, right? 29:56.247 --> 30:02.257 [SPEAKER_00]: The interacting, the men and the women who don't want a relationship, don't want the same things that they do. 30:02.418 --> 30:11.113 [SPEAKER_00]: They attract in the people that do, I mean, they just attract it so much because there is this wildly open, emotionally available availability. 30:11.133 --> 30:12.696 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, here's everything. 30:12.676 --> 30:42.345 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's alluring it's like in mythology the sirens that that sort of lure in the ships and the sailors right there's this quality to it's like sensual and sensuous and like it's it's not mysterious, but it feels the illusion of safety because you get so much right so there is such a thing as being too emotionally open I don't think that it I would call it emotionally available I would I would call it emotionally a meshed I would call it maybe emotionally manipulative 30:42.325 --> 30:45.329 [SPEAKER_02]: So don't put that on your J.D. 30:46.471 --> 30:46.711 [SPEAKER_00]: for a while. 30:46.731 --> 30:46.992 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 30:47.613 --> 31:04.276 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is what I would say is there are some people who need to distinguish the difference between whether they are projecting like they want a man or a woman who's emotionally open, but they want somebody who's emotionally open on their terms. 31:04.737 --> 31:05.037 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 31:05.057 --> 31:10.425 [SPEAKER_00]: So they are deciding and defining like, oh, you're emotionally open or you're not emotionally open. 31:10.405 --> 31:13.489 [SPEAKER_00]: and there's like this checklist that they have. 31:14.891 --> 31:17.996 [SPEAKER_00]: So rather than tuning into, what does it feel like to be around you? 31:18.016 --> 31:18.917 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I feel safe? 31:18.997 --> 31:20.780 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I feel connected to you? 31:20.820 --> 31:23.063 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I feel like there's intimacy between us? 31:23.143 --> 31:26.107 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I feel like this is building trust, right? 31:26.248 --> 31:33.498 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are indicators that you and another person are emotionally open, that those things are starting to progress. 31:33.538 --> 31:34.860 [SPEAKER_00]: They're starting to happen. 31:34.840 --> 31:39.226 [SPEAKER_00]: And but I think a lot of people are very sort of quick to judge. 31:39.266 --> 31:43.532 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not tuned into what they're actually experiencing, what they're feeling within their body. 31:43.933 --> 31:46.436 [SPEAKER_00]: In our Western culture, we live up in our heads. 31:46.857 --> 31:52.445 [SPEAKER_00]: And we very quickly are rationalizing whether somebody is something or not. 31:52.525 --> 31:55.689 [SPEAKER_00]: And we get caught in this trap of, there's an Einstein quote. 31:55.749 --> 32:01.978 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to share real quick where he says, the rational mind is a faithful servant and the intuitive mind is a sacred gift. 32:01.958 --> 32:05.864 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've created a culture that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. 32:05.884 --> 32:18.144 [SPEAKER_00]: And so many people in our culture are not making intuitive decisions because they are disconnected from their sensual body, their disconnectual from their emotional body, their disconnected from their intuitive body. 32:18.325 --> 32:24.034 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're trying to figure out whether a partner is right or wrong based on rational thinking. 32:24.014 --> 32:26.379 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's very, very flat. 32:26.539 --> 32:27.842 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very one-dimensional. 32:27.902 --> 32:34.596 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we need to cultivate and train ourselves to go deeper into what do I experience around this person? 32:34.836 --> 32:40.167 [SPEAKER_00]: How do I actually feel in my body, right, in my heart, in my belly? 32:40.147 --> 32:45.033 [SPEAKER_00]: right, how does it feel just in the quality of my emotions around them? 32:45.073 --> 32:46.134 [SPEAKER_00]: Do they feel safe? 32:46.395 --> 32:55.666 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, I think there's a part like you can meet that situation with your partner and say, I think it needs to be met with vulnerability. 32:55.686 --> 33:00.752 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, here's when this happens, it feels like I'm being abandoned. 33:01.012 --> 33:02.714 [SPEAKER_00]: And so what I need from you is this. 33:02.995 --> 33:03.235 [SPEAKER_00]: And 33:03.215 --> 33:08.384 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to be able to have these conversations is that something that you are open to. 33:08.704 --> 33:13.472 [SPEAKER_00]: And then here's the thing is that you may have attracted a partner who's a little bit more avoidant, right? 33:13.492 --> 33:15.476 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds like some avoidant tendencies. 33:16.077 --> 33:20.003 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's again, it's something that has to be followed up on. 33:20.144 --> 33:23.890 [SPEAKER_00]: And the hard part about all this is that our wounds come out in relationships. 33:23.870 --> 33:27.136 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, we're all looking for safety in relationships. 33:27.497 --> 33:33.107 [SPEAKER_00]: And, and I think there's sort of like this hope that it'll show up in a way where it just happens, right? 33:33.227 --> 33:34.750 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a great work. 33:34.770 --> 33:40.039 [SPEAKER_02]: I love the just having the conversation and seeing at that stage where someone reacts. 33:40.019 --> 33:52.241 [SPEAKER_01]: So peanut gallery here, I already hear some of our listeners saying, that sounds great when you say it, but I'm afraid of seeing that because I'm afraid of chasing them away. 33:52.381 --> 33:53.363 [SPEAKER_01]: We hear this all the time. 33:53.423 --> 34:03.080 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm afraid of seeing the truth and being honest and telling them my needs and boundaries because it's so early on in relationship, I don't want them to be scared. 34:03.561 --> 34:03.661 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:03.681 --> 34:04.963 [SPEAKER_01]: What do we say to that? 34:04.943 --> 34:08.653 [SPEAKER_01]: What do we tell everyone who is freaking out right now? 34:08.673 --> 34:11.982 [SPEAKER_02]: They're like, or it's like so hard to meet someone good. 34:12.063 --> 34:12.905 [SPEAKER_02]: I met some of a good. 34:12.925 --> 34:15.271 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to like lose this opportunity. 34:15.292 --> 34:17.377 [SPEAKER_02]: There's like this scarcity moment. 34:17.518 --> 34:18.220 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, okay. 34:18.440 --> 34:19.563 [SPEAKER_00]: So a couple of things. 34:19.603 --> 34:20.185 [SPEAKER_00]: One. 34:20.165 --> 34:35.845 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are self regulating, right, if you see that moment where you start to panic and maybe make stories about the other person or there's a concern about them in those moments all we can do is regulate ourselves, lead ourselves and and make 34:35.825 --> 34:39.088 [SPEAKER_00]: clear the structure of the relationship that we're desiring. 34:39.509 --> 34:52.642 [SPEAKER_00]: And if we from a self-regulated, emotionally available, emotionally open place, have a conversation with somebody about the kind of structure that we need in a relationship to feel safe, and they run good, right? 34:52.902 --> 35:02.372 [SPEAKER_00]: Good, stop, allowing ourselves, up, allowing yourself to be afraid to push away the wrong people that don't want the same thing as you. 35:02.352 --> 35:02.713 [SPEAKER_00]: Amen. 35:03.094 --> 35:14.590 [SPEAKER_00]: We have become far too condition in our culture of saying the thing that we actually need out of fear of of scaring off the wrong fucking people. 35:15.599 --> 35:19.824 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, but I love her, but she's the one. 35:19.844 --> 35:21.466 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, ah, come on. 35:21.547 --> 35:24.410 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like Disney sold you a shitty bill of goods. 35:24.631 --> 35:29.537 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's like let go of the Disney Princess with a Disney Prince ideology. 35:29.837 --> 35:30.999 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not workin'able. 35:31.099 --> 35:32.160 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not functionable. 35:32.280 --> 35:33.962 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very juvenile. 35:34.043 --> 35:35.805 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm saying some very direct things here. 35:35.825 --> 35:37.907 [SPEAKER_00]: So hopefully I'm not triggering too many people. 35:37.928 --> 35:40.511 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's a very juvenile version. 35:40.751 --> 35:41.472 [SPEAKER_00]: And we 35:41.452 --> 35:45.321 [SPEAKER_00]: We stay in hurt to avoid feeling hurt, right? 35:45.441 --> 35:46.363 [SPEAKER_00]: Just hear that. 35:46.503 --> 35:49.470 [SPEAKER_00]: We stay in hurt in order to avoid feeling hurt. 35:49.570 --> 35:57.688 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I'll just keep not getting what I want in this relationship so that I don't have to get hurt in the future by this person who may be. 35:57.668 --> 35:59.430 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, that's not workable, right? 35:59.450 --> 36:04.958 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, our job is to regulate ourselves and then have the conversation. 36:05.198 --> 36:08.082 [SPEAKER_00]: And if they can't meet us in that place, they're not ready for it. 36:08.142 --> 36:10.485 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't want that, that's okay. 36:10.605 --> 36:22.161 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to be willing to risk being with ourselves a little longer than we feel comfortable so that we can find the relationship where people can be with us and truly meet us. 36:22.381 --> 36:26.747 [SPEAKER_00]: And we have to be very clear on what our non-negotiables are in a relationship. 36:26.727 --> 36:29.791 [SPEAKER_00]: and what we're just not willing to stand for. 36:29.831 --> 36:33.937 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's very important and it's part of being emotionally available. 36:34.057 --> 36:37.743 [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't know what your non-negotiables are, not fully, emotionally available. 36:37.943 --> 36:45.934 [SPEAKER_00]: You're probably more emotionally close than you think you are and you're sacrificing yourself in order to get what you call intimacy. 36:45.914 --> 36:48.379 [SPEAKER_00]: In order to get what you call your needs met, right? 36:48.479 --> 36:59.122 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we need to be willing to get very honest with ourselves because what I've learned about relationships is like we can have many relationships in the common thread of us. 36:59.583 --> 37:02.129 [SPEAKER_00]: And until we really start to see that, right? 37:02.309 --> 37:05.155 [SPEAKER_00]: Intimacy that, this is the last thing I'll say on an pause. 37:05.135 --> 37:08.998 [SPEAKER_00]: The root of intimacy is a Greek word called intomus, intomus. 37:09.219 --> 37:10.720 [SPEAKER_00]: And intomus means innermost. 37:11.100 --> 37:17.266 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that the etymology of intimacy literally needs to go innermost with yourself, right? 37:17.386 --> 37:20.208 [SPEAKER_00]: Intemy, I see, first and foremost. 37:20.368 --> 37:34.821 [SPEAKER_00]: So we need to get very tuned in and dialed in to our own quality of self understanding, self regulation, connecting to our emotions, connecting to our sexual 37:34.801 --> 37:40.351 [SPEAKER_00]: before expecting another person to be able to meet those needs, because half of the time we don't even know what they are. 37:40.632 --> 37:56.401 [SPEAKER_00]: So go in or most, right, go in or most and build that relationship, connect to those parts within yourself first, and then there's many possibilities, because they're not beholden to needing to get something from someone else, because I already got it. 37:56.602 --> 37:57.103 [SPEAKER_00]: I already got it. 37:57.303 --> 37:58.345 [SPEAKER_00]: I already gave it to myself. 37:58.325 --> 38:25.682 [SPEAKER_02]: that is so fascinating because it kind of goes full circle to what we're talking about earlier how and I think I admittedly just did it in the question I asked you is that women are or kind of assume that they're emotionally available and assume that men aren't sometimes where it might not be the case like in the sense of making it does come from your self war and it's not always about just like kind of looking at one behavior and making a judgment from 38:25.662 --> 38:39.133 [SPEAKER_02]: Like what are ways that women, I mean, I think maybe it's just men and women like what you're just saying or just how they attuned to themselves and look at that, but are there any other ways to that people can get more in touch with their emotional availability. 38:39.614 --> 38:44.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Or even I think if we want to go down this route, too, is that big v-word. 38:44.545 --> 38:56.518 [SPEAKER_01]: vulnerability and I think you know a lot of people have been lost or v-part in terms of vulnerability and but they say that I was watching the Bachelor last night the Bachelor's like I'm all about vulnerability show me your vulnerability. 38:56.598 --> 38:57.499 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not that easy. 38:57.519 --> 39:07.250 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't just tell someone to show What is a buzzword so how can people open themselves up to be more vulnerable instead of having someone else tell them just be vulnerable. 39:07.270 --> 39:07.971 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll be fine 39:07.951 --> 39:09.134 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, what is vulnerable? 39:09.154 --> 39:11.140 [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean? 39:11.160 --> 39:13.767 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is such a buzzword. 39:14.047 --> 39:20.405 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's gotten into this point culturally where, you know, it's, it's sort of used as a weapon now against people. 39:20.445 --> 39:22.370 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, I'm not telling her. 39:22.390 --> 39:22.490 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 39:22.510 --> 39:23.112 [SPEAKER_00]: It's vulnerable. 39:23.152 --> 39:23.513 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is like, 39:23.493 --> 39:28.039 [SPEAKER_00]: like, oh my God, it's like, well, maybe you have an earn, maybe you're not safe enough for me to be vulnerable. 39:28.079 --> 39:28.560 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 39:28.740 --> 39:31.064 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you haven't even earned the right for my vulnerability. 39:31.084 --> 39:32.045 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would I give you that? 39:32.125 --> 39:35.730 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you're trying to force it out of me or you're demanding it of me. 39:35.790 --> 39:44.843 [SPEAKER_00]: I think in a lot of relationships, there's a, there's a rejection or a constriction or an unwillingness to be vulnerable because it's demanded. 39:44.823 --> 39:57.623 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, there's a lot of men that start dating that start dating and they're like, oh, you know, I don't want to be vulnerable because it feels like you need this on date number two for me to tell you everything about myself and that can feel constructive, right? 39:57.823 --> 39:59.185 [SPEAKER_00]: And and the inverse, right? 39:59.205 --> 40:02.771 [SPEAKER_00]: Some men are very invasive and for a woman it's like, that doesn't feel safe. 40:03.011 --> 40:06.156 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, why do you need to know where I live right now? 40:06.136 --> 40:14.676 [SPEAKER_00]: That's something you should be example, but but so the question is what can we do to create more vulnerability within ourselves or connect to that vulnerability within ourselves? 40:14.977 --> 40:24.178 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think the first thing is to start to define when and under what circumstances we feel somebody has earned our vulnerability. 40:24.158 --> 40:27.144 [SPEAKER_00]: When has somebody really earned your vulnerability? 40:27.465 --> 40:29.810 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a question that most of us don't ask. 40:29.830 --> 40:37.066 [SPEAKER_00]: We're just told that we should be vulnerable, but there's no conditions or structure or framework around when it's safe for us to do so. 40:37.427 --> 40:39.952 [SPEAKER_00]: So when is it safe for us to be vulnerable? 40:40.032 --> 40:44.462 [SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the qualities of the individual that we want to be vulnerable with? 40:44.442 --> 40:45.825 [SPEAKER_00]: How does it feel in our body? 40:46.046 --> 40:48.671 [SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the things that we'd like to share with them? 40:48.832 --> 40:50.596 [SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's first and foremost. 40:50.616 --> 40:54.224 [SPEAKER_00]: And then secondly, to start to get clear on, what are you avoiding? 40:54.404 --> 40:55.186 [SPEAKER_00]: What are you hiding? 40:55.326 --> 40:56.228 [SPEAKER_00]: What are you afraid of? 40:56.489 --> 41:02.181 [SPEAKER_00]: What parts of you feel as if they should be kept separate from the relationship? 41:02.161 --> 41:14.977 [SPEAKER_00]: what parts of your life, what parts of your past, what parts of your desires and your cravings and your earnings, whether that's emotionally sexually physically within a relationship, feel like they don't belong or get ostracized. 41:15.237 --> 41:22.245 [SPEAKER_00]: And to start to connect with those parts within yourself, to say, here are the things that I normally don't want to be vulnerable about, right? 41:22.446 --> 41:26.110 [SPEAKER_00]: And then to see our vulnerabilities as sacred, new 41:26.090 --> 41:38.030 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, as things that we shouldn't just give away or shouldn't want to just sell off to the, you know, the first bitter and see them as sacred and see them as something that is meant to be cherished. 41:38.050 --> 41:42.057 [SPEAKER_00]: That's meant to be shared with somebody and and in. 41:42.037 --> 41:48.650 [SPEAKER_00]: framework of a relationship where it's safe to do so, where it's and where it's honorable, where there's respect. 41:48.670 --> 42:00.973 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the thing that I would say the most for the men that are listening to this and and to the women as well, but to the men specifically is notice how respect impacts your relationship. 42:00.953 --> 42:03.036 [SPEAKER_00]: Notice how important respect is. 42:03.357 --> 42:08.485 [SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of men will feel like they can't commit in a relationship, but they don't know why. 42:08.525 --> 42:13.472 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's because they, on some level, struggle to either respect themselves. 42:13.813 --> 42:16.016 [SPEAKER_00]: So they don't feel like they are respectable. 42:16.377 --> 42:18.200 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they don't feel like they should be chosen. 42:18.340 --> 42:24.349 [SPEAKER_00]: So they start to sabotage or pull away or they can't commit to whatever the case may be, because they feel like they aren't worthy. 42:24.770 --> 42:26.653 [SPEAKER_00]: Or they don't fully respect their partner. 42:26.693 --> 42:28.075 [SPEAKER_00]: They haven't come to terms with it. 42:28.055 --> 42:30.720 [SPEAKER_00]: So respect is a really important part. 42:30.940 --> 42:34.466 [SPEAKER_00]: And if we don't have respect for our partner, how the hell are we supposed to be vulnerable with them? 42:34.686 --> 42:34.927 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 42:34.967 --> 42:41.999 [SPEAKER_00]: How are we supposed to share our intimate, you know, these innermost parts of ourselves with somebody that we don't fully respect. 42:42.019 --> 42:44.643 [SPEAKER_00]: And so those are the main pieces. 42:44.843 --> 42:49.471 [SPEAKER_00]: Becomes someone who respects themselves at a deep level. 42:49.772 --> 42:54.079 [SPEAKER_00]: And then be open to finding somebody that you respect equally. 42:54.059 --> 42:56.682 [SPEAKER_00]: I have the utmost respect for my wife. 42:56.902 --> 42:57.843 [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's brilliant. 42:57.923 --> 42:58.804 [SPEAKER_00]: I think she's wonderful. 42:59.265 --> 43:02.208 [SPEAKER_00]: And I respect her as much as I love her. 43:02.449 --> 43:08.475 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that is incredibly important in modern relationships that are sort of lacking that quality. 43:08.636 --> 43:12.200 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, I feel like there's been so many things in this that are blood by bud. 43:12.760 --> 43:17.946 [SPEAKER_02]: I think just like going into some of our takeaways because this conversation has been incredible. 43:18.026 --> 43:21.450 [SPEAKER_02]: And definitely one that I feel like all listen to a couple of times over. 43:21.430 --> 43:30.963 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the biggest takeaway that I got from this is that instead of looking for someone that's emotionally available, look in yourself and see how available you are. 43:31.163 --> 43:38.393 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think like, I mean, this exercise you did with me was waterfall, but sometimes you think that you've done all this work, but there's still more out there. 43:38.433 --> 43:42.539 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's also putting the work to practice and having those difficult conversations. 43:42.579 --> 43:49.108 [SPEAKER_02]: Like it's easier to do this like more theoretically, but it's 43:49.088 --> 43:53.739 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's a big difference between being emotional and emotionally available. 43:54.380 --> 43:55.523 [SPEAKER_01]: Very big difference. 43:56.165 --> 44:01.437 [SPEAKER_01]: My biggest takeaway is what you're saying Connor is this disconnect that we all feel. 44:01.657 --> 44:03.622 [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is in our head and we say it all the time. 44:03.662 --> 44:06.489 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so in my head right now because we don't feel it in our heart. 44:06.529 --> 44:07.030 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't feel 44:07.010 --> 44:20.228 [SPEAKER_01]: feel it in our core and I was reading this article about our perception of time and how as you get older, time seems to fly by much faster because you have less new experiences. 44:20.689 --> 44:26.757 [SPEAKER_01]: So all of the same experiences you have, it just makes a time fly by because you're like I've been there. 44:26.737 --> 44:34.057 [SPEAKER_01]: but as a child, you're so connected to your senses that everything you touch, everything you feel is a new experience. 44:34.077 --> 44:37.968 [SPEAKER_01]: So time goes by really slowly because you're really present. 44:37.988 --> 44:40.695 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love when kids get hurt, they yell really loud. 44:40.996 --> 44:41.758 [SPEAKER_01]: They're like, oh my god. 44:41.738 --> 44:42.439 [SPEAKER_01]: It hurts so bad. 44:42.619 --> 45:07.324 [SPEAKER_01]: It really doesn't hurt so bad, but they want you to know that they're having this experience and being so disconnected from our body is something that I really want to take away is I want to reconnect myself with even my inner child of just going beyond my head and being logical and thinking about the past experiences, how can I create new experiences so I can observe myself in a different way. 45:07.304 --> 45:13.555 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for that because I'm going to take that as my motto for the rest of the day today and try to limit it somehow. 45:13.855 --> 45:24.553 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think also we started this conversation about men and I do think like yes men are they've societally been told to like suppress emotions more than women. 45:24.533 --> 45:28.337 [SPEAKER_02]: But this is not an exclusive to men or women conversation. 45:28.658 --> 45:35.646 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, like, also no matter what sexuality you are, like how you're approaching someone, this is gonna happen regardless. 45:35.726 --> 45:40.091 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we do throw these terms vulnerable and emotionally available around a lot. 45:40.291 --> 45:49.862 [SPEAKER_02]: And while it's good if someone says that they are, but I think it's like digging deeper into, again, yourself and then also, what are you actually feeling around this person, not just what they're saying? 45:50.002 --> 45:50.322 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 45:50.302 --> 45:52.345 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much Connor beating everyone. 45:52.385 --> 45:56.150 [SPEAKER_01]: If we want to learn more about you, what are some links websites? 45:56.531 --> 45:57.572 [SPEAKER_01]: Where can we find you? 45:57.753 --> 46:03.481 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think the best place is on Instagram and I'm pretty active there at man talks, just man talks. 46:03.801 --> 46:06.865 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can go to cornerbeaten.com, which is my website. 46:07.126 --> 46:08.648 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are probably the two main places. 46:08.628 --> 46:10.714 [SPEAKER_02]: Give some great quotes on Instagram. 46:10.734 --> 46:11.396 [SPEAKER_02]: We follow you. 46:11.416 --> 46:12.439 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you do. 46:12.459 --> 46:14.345 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll link all of that in our show notes. 46:14.465 --> 46:19.500 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to the psychology of relationships today. 46:19.580 --> 46:20.643 [SPEAKER_01]: So you don't miss an episode. 46:21.004 --> 46:22.187 [SPEAKER_01]: And we'll see you all next week. 46:22.288 --> 46:22.789 [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.