[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Julie Craftscheck, and I'm UASU.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the Psychology of Relationships.
[SPEAKER_02]: What if everything you thought was too late in love wasn't late at all?
[SPEAKER_02]: What if your timeline wasn't behind?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was right on time.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're flipping the script on one of the biggest cultural myths in dating.
[SPEAKER_02]: That love has an expiration date.
[SPEAKER_02]: For decades, people have internalized the idea that if you don't lock it down before 30, you've somehow missed your chance.
[SPEAKER_02]: But real psychology tells a different story.
[SPEAKER_02]: One where time pressure is often the very thing that distorts our choices.
[SPEAKER_02]: not defines our opportunities.
[SPEAKER_02]: In this episode, we're joined by the brilliant and beloved, mainly, former CNN journalist and anchor, Powerhouse Storyteller, and now engage for the very first time at age 57.
[SPEAKER_02]: Her story isn't just inspirational.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a masterclass in how releasing societal timelines can change your entire relational trajectory.
[SPEAKER_02]: When this episode was recorded, may have just recently got engaged, but now she's very much in wedding planning mode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Many people feel their dating window is narrowing, but studies show that a future positive perspective, now believing your best experiences are still ahead, actually increases confidence, self-worth and attraction.
[SPEAKER_02]: May embodies that mindset.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every detour in her past created the conditions for the right relationship to emerge now.
[SPEAKER_02]: We talk about chronic normativity, the psychological concept that society imposes proper timelines for adulthood milestones,
[SPEAKER_02]: When people internalize these norms, they experience deadline pressure, which research shows can lead to rush decisions, reduce satisfaction, and settling for partners who fit the timeline rather than the person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mace life is the counter narrative.
[SPEAKER_02]: When you take away the artificial countdown clock, you give yourself space to choose with clarity, agency, and authenticity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ultimately, this conversation is a reminder, age doesn't limit your chance at love, but outdated timelines do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you release them, like May did, you make room for a relationship that's aligned, healthy, and right on time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember to go to Apple Podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen and leave us a rating and review, especially with a comment about what you learned from this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the psychology of relationships and you're listening to an episode that
[SPEAKER_02]: May, lovely, may, the last time we spoke.
[SPEAKER_02]: We talked about having it all.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you have it all?
[SPEAKER_02]: But can you have it all at the same time?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or can you not have it all the same time?
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a really great discussion around that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did.
[SPEAKER_02]: And shortly after you started dating someone, and now he is your fiance.
[SPEAKER_02]: Congratulations.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a choreographer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I blame all of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm just kidding.
[SPEAKER_00]: you do own part of this and may I remind you and your listeners that it's because of that show we were we're talking about can you have it all and you know timing and all of that it made me very curious about trying to go online to see what was going on especially during COVID and so I did with a very cynical attitude not surprised yes a journalist of course I had my doubts but it happened
[SPEAKER_02]: Look at the toe.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, so I was shopping and I found the shirt and I was like, yeah, I'll take it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I've actually met him, I guess it was over a year and a half a go or maybe two years ago, but he is lovely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been close twice before in my adult's mood.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those did not work out, and we didn't make it there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank God, and I really love him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then now it's 57, I am engaged for the first time.
[SPEAKER_03]: So take us back, because I mean, you alluded to it, you got online to start to scope it out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Take us back to single May, how did you tube me?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's been a lot of single May in my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which one?
[SPEAKER_00]: Which one?
[SPEAKER_00]: So really, you know, I was at a point in my life where like a lot of more mature women who have successful career, I've lived all over the world because of my career, and I made my choices, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when we always go back to that question, can women have it all?
[SPEAKER_00]: We can, but oftentimes not all at once.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we are up against sometimes making choices.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I chose during my lifetime very openly and wisely, not always, but, you know, deliberately, the course of my life to a certain extent.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was at a point where I said, well, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been single for a while and I've been good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything's been okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it was more of curiosity about what was going on and the climate of what was going on because of COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't be lying if I said I wasn't someone open-minded too though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though I was cynical, I wanted to stay open-minded because I wanted to see could it possibly happen now because as we know, oftentimes life is about timing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is the perfect example of timing because I think he was at a point in his life where he wanted to meet somebody and I was open to it and experimenting and he met each other within the first week of both of us joining.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cute.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this was on okay, cute bit love it was on okay, cute bit because you a had shared some data points with me that okay, cute bit during COVID had gone up something like 230% in terms of activity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, something ridiculous and it was because okay, cute but requires a little bit more information.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to fill out of more stuff in your profile and you can ask a bunch of questions if you choose.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that told me that people who were joining okay, keep it at the time of COVID, they were more serious, perhaps.
[SPEAKER_00]: About eating somebody and getting to know somebody, learning more about somebody before they even connected.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that drew me in a little bit saying, okay, there's a little bit more quality control that you can manipulate a little bit before you even connect with somebody.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how it happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: And within the first week, he reached out to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was very clear he had read my profile.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was very clear he had read all of my answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: How so?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he was in his first message to me, he was referring to things I said in my profile.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very specific details.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that already told me, okay, this is a guy who's serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not just looking at photos and be like, hey, hi, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which many people do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I mean that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was very clear that it was thoughtful about it Had you been on dating apps before like while you were single, were you used like how was this diffus?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this guy who usually come on?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, a lot of us in this day and age dating apps are the way to try to meet people, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because we're also busy, but also it's complicated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yes, I had been on and off dating apps for years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had been successful in the past, you know, I had some longer-term relationships from meeting somebody from a dating app.
[SPEAKER_00]: But every time I would go on a dating app and it just didn't work out or whatever, I'd be like, I never doing this again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, no, I will never go on a dating app again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if I had a dollar for every time I said that, I'd probably be a fucking rich.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I feel like it sounds so obvious to be on dating as, but we actually heard a lot of people in COVID being their first time.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why I asked, like, it is crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a little different for you because you wanted to go on OK Cupid at a curiosity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: How did you do your profile differently or did you do it differently than previous profiles?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think no, whenever I would do my profiles for, you know, any dating app because I'm a journalist, you know, I mean, I'm a good writer, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I always approach it very honestly and very sincerely, but I also wanted to project the kind of person I am, which is not some docile, timid female, right, looking for a husband.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really wanted people to know who I truly am.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would talk about my travels.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would talk about having lived overseas.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say I was a journalist because I didn't want people to start Googling me and finding me because they would.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I had to be somewhat careful about my identity as one girlfriend said to me, why is it made that you would always meet really stellar people online, upstanding guys who had a decent career and they were successful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, and I always get these like starving artists types.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I said, or, you know, I really think it's because I'm projecting through the profile, a level of confidence, and somebody who's somewhat worldly, and who kind of projects the character of, I kind of know what I want.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I know that was part of why his name is Andre was attracted to my profile initially.
[SPEAKER_00]: He liked what I was saying, he liked the honesty, he liked the confidence that he could feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in COVID, I also wanted to say,
[SPEAKER_00]: and said in my profile, we're living through very interesting times.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy and there's a lot of self-reflection going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I remember saying that about myself saying this is giving me time to reflect on a lot of things and prioritise and weed out the unnecessary things or such distractions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was equating what was going on at the time with how I was feeling to.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we hear you, you're coming from play security, kind of shed light into where you were at that moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dating in your 50s, we like to call it like you're dating why, like what's the reason that you're even dating of the first place?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what was your mentality this time around to date in your 50s?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great question because again, I mean, some people might be thinking, yeah, why would she need to date if she's saying that her life was so good?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, there was nothing that was empty or missing.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I truly felt that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So don't think I'm feeding you guys a bunch of bullshit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it was a combination of COVID where we all just stopped and we started really thinking about what's really important to me, what do I value, what's the meaning of life almost we are asking ourselves as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for me, you know, one of the most important aspects of life at this stage of my life now is connection.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about relationships and I don't mean sexual relationships, boyfriend, girlfriend, I mean relationships, friendships, family.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of those things that really matter and that's a core value for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: is that I need to have true relationships in my life to make me feel fulfilled.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I love teaching because I have a connection with my students and I feel like I'm we're giving each other some sort of value.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think in my 50s,
[SPEAKER_00]: It was the combination of really knowing who I am, finally, also not giving a fuck out what other people think about me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's also the beauty of getting older, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You really don't give a shit about if they're going to judge you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could give a rat to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when you reach that point in your life, it really opens you up to more possibilities.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because nothing's holding you back in terms of, oh, maybe I shouldn't do that because they're going to think bad leave me or oh, I wonder what I look like or oh yeah look I went gray during COVID right I was just like I had not color my hair anymore this is ridiculous and so now I have these gray streaks and I'm like so psych because I'm saving so much money.
[SPEAKER_00]: And chemicals, it was the combination of all of that Julia.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really think that that's why I think timing for me that it had to take me being in my fifties to really be open to a solid meaningful relationship that was good for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're at a point where you're happy single.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is so important to highlight.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it, I'm totally perfectly happy being on my own.
[SPEAKER_02]: Curious to see if I can find a connection with someone, but if not, fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a great life.
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you think your dating Y has changed throughout the decades?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like take us back to your 40s.
[SPEAKER_02]: was your daily why differently?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, in my 40s, when I was just turning 40, that's when I almost got engaged, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: For the second time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know that at that period of my life, because I was about to turn 40, I was panicked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_00]: In that stage where you're like, man, if I don't do this now,
[SPEAKER_00]: because the Bible were never.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think a lot of people feel that way for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're the arbitrary cutoff, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think again, it's a combination of societal guidelines, but also, yeah, realistically for women, it's the biological clock too, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you're hitting 40, again, doctors are saying, and, you know, obviously, the data shows that it's kind of a
[SPEAKER_00]: Clearly we've seen women over 40 have children too, so it's not impossible, but I think all of that pressure and all of these rules about age, especially with women really put a lot of pressure on us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, I almost got engaged to a guy that was bad news.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw so many red flags throughout the time when we were dating and I was going to go through it with in any way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I look back on what I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like what the hell were you thinking?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You wanted to still battling that you were willing to overlook all of this shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's how my 40 started in the 30s.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're dating why again 30s I was flying high career wise and most of my 30s was spent overseas.
[SPEAKER_00]: working for various networks including CNN in Tokyo and on Kong.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was career woman, totally focused, totally driven.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if a guy came into my life and they did, they had to take it or leave and in terms of like what I was doing with my career.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was a bit rich at.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say I was a bit more rigid in terms of really just it was all about my career and sure the relationship that was nice it wasn't a priority but if it didn't work oh my gosh I'm going to tell you I'll tell you a horrible story and if he's listening he's I mean don't worry I'm not going to use a name I was dating a guy in Tokyo he was an expert super nice guy you know nothing wrong with them we were dating for about two years
[SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't feel it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of knew that he wasn't the one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he thought I was the one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I got a promotion to become the anchor of CNN out of Hong Kong.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is when I was still in Tokyo.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he was prepared to move.
[SPEAKER_00]: for me to Hong Kong from Tokyo and we were sitting on my couch as the movers had come and take it almost everything out of my apartment and I was like, no, we're done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I broke up with them and then gone, I was kind shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I mean, seriously ladies, it was bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was not my finest moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, but that's how I was at that time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I know he hated me for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that was kind of an unforgivable move on my part.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because it wasn't a priority for you Yeah, in your 30s your priority.
[SPEAKER_01]: Always your career and we hear this a lot It was and you know here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think also it was one of those things even when I was younger I think it was instilled in me that marriage was forever Right because I come from a very traditional family family family
[SPEAKER_00]: Brown, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: My parents are Korean immigrants.
[SPEAKER_00]: They stayed married to the day my father died unetratically.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I grew up with that notion of, yeah, if you get married, you stay married.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but that's just the way I was brought up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know that my psyche was like, yeah, you know, marriage, it's serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm not going to do it unless it feels right and it's the right person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now granted, when I was about to turn 40, I was about to make that huge mistake.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that affected me all along the way with relationships where I thought, I don't feel this 100%, I'm not going to do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that makes total sense, like I definitely can hear why you felt the way that you did with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's funny that in retrospect, you can see this also clearly, but when you're in it, it's hard to know what the right decisions are.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: The guy, I mean, I know you're like, oh, I was terrible to that guy, but it's like in that moment, you were just trying to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Also, and even like the one in your 40s, it's really interesting to hear like, I felt that pressure and I would have regretted it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So take us current day.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, when you met your now fiance, how did this feel different?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, how did you change your mentality and know that this one was a keeper?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I felt something very early on and when I mean very early on, I mean when we first started messaging each other on the app before we even had a phone conversation because when he wrote me clearly, I saw that he was taking care in terms of writing back to me and referring to things that he read about me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I could tell he was already a thoughtful guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I read his profile and saw that, you know, he was a beautiful writer as well, but he was also being very authentic and honest in his profile.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, huh, it seems like an unusual, and also he's from Europe.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so for me, I like the idea that somebody has a more worldly international view of the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that sort of intrigued me as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: But once we start a communicating
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt like, wow, okay, this seems more real and also because he's one year older than me, there's a level of maturity and sort of advance thinking and sort of life experiences that we had both been through.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that kind of made an easier connection.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he definitely expressed himself much earlier on than I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I say that he used the L word much earlier on than I did and when he said it, I was like, whoa, Nelly, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't freak out at least overtly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Internally, I was like, whoa, this guy likes to move fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I could tell you really meant it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't just saying it for the sake of saying, I could tell you really meant it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just took me a little bit longer to get to the point where I wanted to admit it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's my stubborn side, but that's also my protective side, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We all have our armor that we put on, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we've all been hurt and we've all been scarred.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know that I was holding back a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's the funniest part.
[SPEAKER_00]: So because my mom is still a traditional Korean woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how old is she?
[SPEAKER_00]: She's 87.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I didn't tell her that I was dating anyone for six months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because with Asian parents, especially, once you tell them something, they will not leave you alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll ask a billion questions all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're very judges.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to generally, they can be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my mom is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I didn't want to tell her about this until I knew for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny, though, even in your 50s, you feel that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's eight and seven.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's still like, oh, my single daughter, you know, my single daughter who's who she dating now, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't do it until I knew I was ready, and then this is the best part.
[SPEAKER_00]: I put together a PowerPoint presentation.
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_00]: So why not to be?
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, hold on, I'm gonna try that.
[SPEAKER_02]: What was the PowerPoint?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, can you share your screen with us?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, you guys, okay, so I put so much thought into this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I put a PowerPoint presentation with photos and a story in class.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, no, seriously, telling the story of how we met and like what he's who he is and like all the nice things he's done for me and this and that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Literally, it was a horrible presentation because this is why I did it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I just told my mom verbally, she kind of wouldn't absorb all of it and she just would like in and date me with a billion questions like I was saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to present it in a formal presentation like that so that it would answer all the questions that I knew she would ask and I was preempting that basically, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was just getting it out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she just had a visual aid and explanation in some of the things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, terms, so that she got the story.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she can, you know, ask me questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I told it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you include testimonials?
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe like a five star review from you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Create a score.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: But okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is interesting is that he said I love you pretty early on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it took you a few more months to come around and to present him to your mom.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you too had a discrepancy in terms of your views on marriage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us about that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so he's been married before.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he's kind of like, oh, I can take it or leave it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: As a lot of people tend to be, if they've been married before some people want to get married, you know, again, over and over again.
[SPEAKER_00]: But with him, he was like, yeah, I don't need to get married again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that was a point of contention.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say, you know, for a while, because I would have these conversations with him saying, I understand your viewpoint because you were hurt.
[SPEAKER_00]: and it was bad divorce, you know, all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I said, I get it, I get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I said, but don't impose your feelings in your view on marriage, on me, because I haven't done it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's not fair, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you should understand also where I'm coming from.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we had to have these discussions along the way about where we stand and what I was trying to do is try to have him understand where I'm coming from.
[SPEAKER_00]: he didn't have to completely accept everything I was saying, but I also didn't want him to be so rigid saying, because at one point he said, oh, you know, this is what society imposes on everyone, you know, just because like, you know, you're supposed to get married.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody gets married.
[SPEAKER_00]: I go, whoa, whoa, I said that is a sweeping generality.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to take that back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone doesn't do it because they're feeling the pressure of getting married right people get married because they want to right and it's a declaration of their love and their commitment to each other and that's what I try to explain to him I said listen to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a commitment that we're making to each other, but also it is a public declaration.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is meaningful.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is meaningful to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's when he finally, I think got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, okay, and that he wanted to surprise me on my birthday, which was at the end of March to propose, but I blew it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I blew the proposed ladies.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got into an argument over this very topic or like a Valentine's Day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Valentine's Day is meaningless to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's just to made up, you know, holiday.
[SPEAKER_00]: But something triggered.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we got into an argument about engagement and marriage again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was just like really pissed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like, OK, well, I guess I have to tell you, I was going to surprise you and propose to you on the birthday.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Do, sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he had come around at this point already.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, come around.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like you and you a definitely are out there alive.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're like, I think like show many of us are in this boat where you have to because of what your partner wants.
[SPEAKER_02]: It challenges you on why you want these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: totally.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been challenged with this almost every day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why is it that I want marriage?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I want it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can impose someone else's views on marriage on yourself and vice versa.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that does come with friction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is interesting to me that after all those years of almost getting engaged and dodging those bullets and being happy on your own, that marriage is still
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm very curious to know why is it still important to you other than the declaration of love, but what is it at the core?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think at the core is really the value that I put into commitment and so when I ask myself what does that mean and why is that so important, I look at how I look at other people and other relationships and just general behavior that I expect from others and expect from myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what are those values?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's commitment.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's loyalty.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can ask my friends,
[SPEAKER_00]: one another and so in that communication that I need from other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think those are all core values that are so important to be so if I'm in a relationship, those are things I really want.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me, if that commitment has to come in the form of,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, engagement or something that again seals the deal right because he was arguing for a long time It's like I'm committed to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're the one, you know I'm gonna meet with you for the rest of my life and so and I don't doubt him I didn't doubt him for a minute, but I think I still have this traditional side of me and again Maybe it's a side maybe it's the programming to a certain extent so I'm not gonna act like oh, yeah Yeah, no, I'm not falling for the programming.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's part of that
[SPEAKER_00]: for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is so interesting to see how people react, right, to when you say you're engaged.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a completely new level of reaction and the way they view you and your relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: It changes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's taken seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, taking more seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's the second question people always ask after you say you're engaged?
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you said a date?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they just want you to like all of a sudden speed into this, you know, and so here's where I'm a little bit unusual engagement was actually more important to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's the path forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is, but it's that public declaration and that commitment that you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a symbolism.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what they like I've definitely been here recently is that like my partner and I are on the same page of like wanting marriage and to move forward, but we were on different pieces.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was you know a similar story to you that he was kind of like the one early on that was moving faster.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then somehow I became the one that like wanted things to move, trying to push it faster.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he was a little behind me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our therapist said his heart was with me, but his head was
[SPEAKER_03]: So I guess my question for you is, like, how are you able to work through this pace discrepancy?
[SPEAKER_03]: I know yours was a little more than that entirely is like getting on the same page of what you want in the first place, but then how to actually get it in motion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, Julie, I think it's a work in progress.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you think about it, you bring two human beings, individual human beings together, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're supposed to what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything's supposed to be in sync all the time?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not real listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: No fucking way.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's impossible.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's what's different about this relationship compared to any other I've had.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never had such an open,
[SPEAKER_00]: communicative relationship before us, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had good relationships with decent communication, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: This one, it is so open and nothing is closed off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't ever feel like I'm walking on eggshells the same for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are very, very open in terms of our communication.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because when humans get together, we're never going to always be in sync, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But what should happen, though, if you have the open communication, then at least you can express, hey, dude, you're not in sync with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what happened in this case with the engagement and commitment he was telling me his story.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was sharing my story.
[SPEAKER_00]: We obviously weren't in sync, but we kept talking about it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what we were able to grow closer and at least come to this
[SPEAKER_00]: point where we agreed right now moving forward who knows I mean we're not talking about setting a date or anything that all these other people keep asking me about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought and I feel kind of weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean you guys tell me what you think.
[SPEAKER_00]: We how long have you been engaged?
[SPEAKER_03]: like since the end of March, it had the word out real time.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a month later, basically.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a month later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's exactly it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like people always want to know what's next, what's next, like that's when your relationship is progressing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of like the engagement is almost enough just to that symbolism of commitment and love and getting rid of the boyfriend title.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, we're boyfriend.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm so stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's 57 and I'm like, this is my boyfriend.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's, let's come up with a better term, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I say partner partner, if he's not with me and I tell somebody, oh, my partner, a lot of people assume I'm gay, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's usually the term that you so get that a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why can't we come up with a better term?
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, so now I, when I say fiance,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's weird to me, too, actually, because I'm not used to it, but at least it's a different term.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, so it's, I feel pressure from people about, you know, okay, what's next?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, God, can you just give me a second to just enjoy the fact that I just got engaged?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, we haven't even gotten the ring yet because the ring I had told them early on I just gave him a warning and I wanted to give him a chance to you know understand like where I'm coming from I said If we ever get engaged, don't go buy me a diamond ring because I knew that my mother Hmm passing down rings to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a waste of money for him to go buy a diamond and so we're using a ring that my mother gave to me
[SPEAKER_00]: and I'm having it redesigned and reset.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just waiting for that right now, it should be coming back in like a week, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so everything about this is sort of a typical real surprise for me, but now if you would ask my friends in childhood, would you have ever guessed that May would never be married at the age of 57, they would be like no fucking way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you know, it was the shot through the whole girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do feel like you kind of touched on this earlier.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like once there is this passing of 40 society tells you it's over.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is not true, clearly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really not.
[SPEAKER_03]: People meet at all different ages.
[SPEAKER_03]: But for whatever reason, that is the narrative that is told, especially in today's world where people are.
[SPEAKER_03]: coming in and out of the dating pool with divorces.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's not true whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, how did you kind of get over this?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, what was reactions from friends and family?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, how did you change that narrative for yourself, but also for others?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think I've kind of lived my life, especially into my forties and then obviously into my fifties, embracing that idea that we're getting better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I actually was getting better and I felt it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt physically I felt it mentally, certainly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I have been living this life for the past decade and a half now.
[SPEAKER_00]: where I really didn't want age to define me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't feel my age, I didn't look my age and who's still thriving with my career and all these other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So dating, yeah, I mean, it does get more challenging because of the age thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why so many people lie online, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I never did.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I know that that erased an entire pool of candidates out because these asshole men,
[SPEAKER_00]: who were in their 50s, would say the maximum age for a woman would be like 35 or something like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's like you don't want that anyways.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely not, but I would always think to myself, you know, when I saw these guys with that kind of tight age range, like, wow, you guys really are missing out because you aren't now not meeting women like me and all of my other friends who are fantastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: just because you are judging a woman just because of her age, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's unfortunate.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for me, I never wanted to restrict myself and I certainly didn't want to project this image like, oh, I'm done.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm over the hill.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I give up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And women out there, please take me as an example, a 57 engaged for the first time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it can still happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want it,
[SPEAKER_02]: It happens at the right time, I think that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not like, oh, later in life, we can, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's like, it happens when it the right time is for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do want to ask you this what's next question but without the pressure on it because I am curious to know now that you're engaged you are about to merge your lives together and my partner and I recently kind of went through this as we created a joint checking account and we're going to like you know combine some of our finances and I can tell you it is unsexy and it is not fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I actually, I kept thinking if we get married, it's like this times a hundred.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have to be merging so much of our shit together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't it easier to just like keep live separate?
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that's my own thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what are your plans being non-traditional that you are of merging both of your lives together?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to be that easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is how honest answer right now, because I can't say that I haven't thought about it, but when I think about it, I'm like, God, I have no freaking idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like you said, merging two lives, especially we're both in our late 50s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm 57, he's 58.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, that's a big merger of lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we're a way past middle age.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do think about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so right now, he has his house.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have my house.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not talking about moving in together.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of working right now because he spends most of his time here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I rarely go to his house because I have two dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just the pain in the ass to like pack him up and take him to his house.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: That works and then the the other thing is that his hobby.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a technical diver So he has all this diving shit and I mean when I say a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has a lot of diving shit He's entire garage looks like a technical diving shop and like So he said may even if we wanted to move in together We would have to get in different house because there's no way
[SPEAKER_00]: or practical things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you're right, you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's complicated when you're merging two very full lives together, it's complicated.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know the answer and I don't think we're going to get there anytime super soon.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so interesting because like when you meet someone in your 20s or like right after college, like you're basically starting your life together and going together.
[SPEAKER_03]: But challenges arise because you're growing in different directions, where when you meet someone later in life, you're more developed, you know who you are, you bring that to dating.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you basically have built a tire life up.
[SPEAKER_03]: That makes it complicated and people are set in their ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are there any other times that you've experienced outside of just like the stuff?
[SPEAKER_03]: that you're like, okay, how do we like budge and meet each other because we're both kind of in our own mindsets?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, for me, you know, one of the things that always complicated a relationship goes back to my family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, Asian families are really, you know, their traditional, there's a lot of expectation and there's a lot of pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so again, growing up with those expectations of, you know, my parents, they of course thought I was going to marry a Korean American doctor, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so with that kind of really narrow definition of what their
[SPEAKER_00]: bad when I wasn't meeting somebody like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I would have to keep some of my relationship secret.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some boyfriend they never even knew about because I never bothered to share because if I failed, then they'd be like, see, you know, I told you, you don't know what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that pressure continues in terms of how I kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: feel about how I go about relationships, but also with my family.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what was really important to me was that whoever I end up with, one of the things that had emerged, well, is my family because are super important to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not one of those people who says, oh, fuck it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care what my family thinks.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the fact that my mom and my brother and my other relatives really like this guy and have embraced him, it's so meaningful to me that that merging, that was one of the biggest priorities for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even a 57.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It matters.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we just went to a memorial service for one of my uncles who passed away and all of my relatives were there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He came with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: The ones who had never met him before, they met him and the other ones that already knew him, they loved him and he respects my culture, respects my background and those are really important to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: How long have you two been together from like when you met to now?
[SPEAKER_03]: Just over two and a half years now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: When was it then that you felt like, okay, I want this to be at that next level.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to start doing the milestones of introducing to my family and to get to the place of I want to be married.
[SPEAKER_03]: How did that play out for you?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, like I said, it was a six month mark when I put together that PowerPoint presentation for my mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's when the chat was let out of there DTR.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was, yeah, with your mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was from your milestone because I did that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was actually a serious milestone because if my family now knows, then I really wanted
[SPEAKER_00]: to grow this relationship and hopefully make it work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now again, I wasn't putting pressure on myself like I've done in the past, but that meant something to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was being integrated into my family and then friends and all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it was a slow burn for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, sure I had in the back of my head, wow, if this is the guy for me, then yeah, the eventual next step for me would be some sort of more serious commitment.
[SPEAKER_00]: but he had some bumps along the way because of how he felt about marriage or engagement and how I felt about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we did have to work through that a few times.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't just one conversation, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, several conversations about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, Julie and I know that all too well of rinse and repeat.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to meet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, can you recall like one of the harder conversations that you had on the topic?
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, it was a delicate dance because I had to be sympathetic.
[SPEAKER_00]: because of what his past experience was.
[SPEAKER_00]: His marriage broke up because she fell in love with somebody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of came out of left field, so it's not like his marriage was disintegrating and he wanted out, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I knew that I had to be sensitive to that, but at the same time I had to also say to myself,
[SPEAKER_00]: don't put your feelings aside.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you've got to honor your deeds for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew I had to honor my needs and be honest about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of people in relationships, they had these deep-seated feelings and they don't express them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't communicate them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally get to the point, the boiling point, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like you blow up and I never wanted to do that and believe me there were a couple of times when I thought I was going to and I would have to say we got to talk or he would sense it and thank God he's Swiss so he has a very calm to me
[SPEAKER_00]: which is an advantage.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he stays very calm.
[SPEAKER_00]: We would be able to approach it and open up and talk about it before it got so heated.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that there had been moments where it was uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could feel myself retreating because that was my MO in the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would retreat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would put on the armor and I'd be like, nope, I'm not going to talk about it, but this is different.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's different and it totally works you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I wish more people would do this and I took me a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took me 50 fucking plus years.
[SPEAKER_00]: but it also took the right person.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, Dante, because I have gone through the exact same thing in the last six months to a year.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it's been the same conversations.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I know for me, a big part of it was that it brought up my own shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I, you know, in therapy with a couple's therapist, my partner would say something, I would take it and it would activate like a worthy this would.
[SPEAKER_03]: and a validation aspect of my own stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the therapist is like, I'm not actually hearing what you're hearing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that showed me there's so much of our deep rooted stuff that comes up in relationships, like with all of this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep, did you have any of those experiences?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: I just thought of something that he had a revelation during one of our moments, but this was fascinating to me because Julia, right, a lot of stuff from your past and your child and all the stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So one point he got very upset that my mom had told me she didn't want to stay.
[SPEAKER_00]: overnight at my house if he was here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, meaning if he was going to be spending the night, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And because she again, she's very traditional, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, and I respect that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we were not engaged.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not married.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so she again, she's a traditional Christian Korean woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me just put that out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I told him that and it triggered something very bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh,
[SPEAKER_00]: And he got very angry and he was like, I'm being rejected, your mother is rejecting me, you know, and all this stuff and I'm like, no, no, no, no, I go has nothing to do with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be any man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be any male.
[SPEAKER_00]: She will not accept it because that's how she is.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he thought it was about him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Bim there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I find that where is this coming from?
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, I think this is coming from trial to rejection.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is coming up from his past and his own family, all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was transferred.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, he was feeling rejected because of what was
[SPEAKER_00]: happening through my mom, but he was connecting it to something from his past.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was an interesting moment that I learned something new about him.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: Triggered something from his past.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what was yours?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for me, I think there are moments when I still wonder if
[SPEAKER_00]: can maintain, because again, I'm 57 and I've never been engaged and I've never been married.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I sometimes question, am I capable of this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, am I not wired to stay in a relationship or make a long-term commitment?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I know all of that stuff comes from my childhood too, not because of my parents, clearly they stayed together.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it comes
[SPEAKER_00]: was ingrained in me and that if it's not perfect then I better step away or I'm going to disconnect from it because it's not going to be perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've had to train myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: not to have that kind of expectation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that almost contradicts what you want, which is you want in marriage.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this feeling of can I even maintain this?
[SPEAKER_02]: But I still want it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you've got, but when someone's not giving it to you, too, I could see like I want to more activate it and complete like you're like now it's just confirming that belief.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: May did you ever have at any point think if he loved me enough, he would want to just marry me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that simple?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I be just that simple?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be like, he's telling me that you're the one, you're the one.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, absolutely, we're going to be together forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no doubt about he said that multiple times.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no doubt that we're going to be together forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's the problem?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in his mind, it was like, well, what's the problem?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no question, you know, you should know that I'm committed to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yes, logically, you know, that makes sense to him, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, overall, sure that makes sense, but
[SPEAKER_00]: Still, there is that part of you that still wants that symbolic commitment, that declaration to the rest of the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, it has nothing to do with people like celebrating with us or congratulating us.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just when you make a public declaration of any kind.
[SPEAKER_00]: you are accountable to that, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That means you have to stick with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: At least I'm a woman of my word.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the word, me, is very valuable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, if you say it, you better mean it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, when I see the world that we live in now, where nobody's accountable anymore,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you can say one thing and do another, you can lie through your teeth and all that you can double down on bullshit.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the world we live in now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me, that's a core value.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am a woman of my word.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like commitment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like making promises and keeping them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's why it means so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's just, I want to highlight this though, remember, he's the one that said I love you first to you a little early on and you were like, whoa, yeah, imagine if he was three months in, it was like, let's get married.
[SPEAKER_02]: You probably would be like, whoa, what's up?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, that's what I want.
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that so interesting?
[SPEAKER_02]: In a relationship, we're always, someone's always a few steps ahead and the other one is just trying to catch up.
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of disappear.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's interesting that this happens in every relationship, every stage, in life.
[SPEAKER_02]: What advice would you give to anyone who is struggling and dating right now thinking, I'm just not going to find my person.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, it's so cliche, right, to say, because of the situation that I'm in, but I have to say, you never know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, you never know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again,
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes when you don't want it, but don't be negative about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't be like, fucking eight man, I hate women.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm never going to fucking date again.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, don't put that bad energy out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get back, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't make it a negative thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did that for a little while too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very negative.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and that didn't help my cause whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, once I felt a release almost of any kind of pressure, and I just opened myself up to the universe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was one of those things, it's like I wasn't like searching, searching, searching, and like desperate, right, because that doesn't work either.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you just open yourself up and say, you know what, I would love to meet somebody, but if I don't, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's great because I love my life, but if I meet somebody, that's wonderful.
[SPEAKER_00]: but just approach it in that manner.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then be focused if you need to be, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had girlfriends now because of my story and maybe I'll have more people now, you know, reach out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're like saying, God, may, you know, can you help me write my profile?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, I'm setting to do this because we still live in a world where we love happy endings.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we still get caught up in the fairy tales.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mine is a really unusual story.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an unusual tale.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, sure you can call it a happy ending, but it's continuous, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's not sugarcoat, like we said before, it's a work in progress, right, just because I met this great guy and we're engaged, it doesn't mean the work is still going to have to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to deal with what it's that communication.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is the one.
[SPEAKER_00]: thing that is so different in this relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think, like, this has been such a incredible conversation.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like so much of this is recidating with UA and I
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think the biggest thing that I've taken away from this conversation, just life experience, it's we think that like the end of a relationship is the DTR and defy to get and getting meeting that person.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's really just the beginning.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love what you said about it's in progress because that is the truth.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is there's going to be ups and downs?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not always smooth sailing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like we don't talk about this ever,
[SPEAKER_03]: Are challenging this way like we talk about dating being hard and why is it so difficult to meet anyone But we don't actually ever talk about the struggles of two people just coming together.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I feel like when I was in the thick of going through this like I heard from so many friends that are happily married now
[SPEAKER_03]: that they struggle with the same thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no one talked about it in the moment because it's like almost like you want to preserve your relationship and not share the struggles.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of what you were saying earlier, like this feeling of perfection that you want to make everyone feel like you have this perfect relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's just not realistic, or if it is, you're just completely suppressing your needs, is what I've netted out to.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I agree with you, it's all about communication.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really think that's the only way you can evaluate if the partner is going to be good for the long haul.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we don't know what's going to happen in five years, ten years or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: All we know is how can we work through things with someone, and can we get to the other side, and come to a place that we're both happy, we're both state ARD, we're both getting our needs met.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's really the only measure we can have to predict the future, so I cannot agree with you more that that's the sign of a good, healthy relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, you know, it really is about your continual growth, too, and self-awareness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I see a lot of people at my age, even completely unaware of themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, lacking complete self-awareness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think we can't live so blindly and then think we hit, you know, a maturity date.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, oh, I'm done, and so I'm good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't need to reflect, I don't need to learn anything more about myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where the rigidity is so bad, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where people really don't want to, like, even consider a different perspective or a different way of going about a life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there is no better mirror than a relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: All your shit gets reflected back to you, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: The word is evolution.
[SPEAKER_02]: We keep evolving our relationships in the only way to do that is through conflict without conflict and everything feels hunky dory.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't grow.
[SPEAKER_02]: The relationship stays stagnant because it means that you're not addressing the points of content.
[SPEAKER_02]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is so important.
[SPEAKER_02]: to find a partner who's willing to do conflict with you and who's willing to not give up on the relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a very emotional conversation with my parents last night after two glasses of wine and they said, what makes this partner different then all your other boyfriends?
[SPEAKER_02]: I said he is the first and only one who has not given up on us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is the first and only one who's willing to keep trying.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even though it's hard, it's so worth it because I found someone who's willing to work on this with me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can guarantee you that we'll keep this forever, that he'll keep wine to work on this or I will keep working on this, but in this moment in time, I can say that and I can say that that is the most important quality of a partner, especially when you are at a place where you're happy with your life.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're happy single, you are so fulfilled, you are not
[SPEAKER_02]: Make you happy that's when the only quality that matters is finding a partner who's willing to work on it with you and I love that you both started the relationships as these very defined identities he's like I've been married I'm not going to get married again you're like I've never been married and I am open to it and you know just very strong identities and then now you're merging the two identities we're both of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not even sacrifice is that you've just kind of melted into each other and now you have this new identity that you're moving forward with.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is not the end of this chapter.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the beginning of another chapter.
[SPEAKER_02]: You also have so much else going on May that it just shows that life just keeps evolving no matter what stage and life you're in.
[SPEAKER_03]: totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does, and that's the message.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, don't think like you have some sort of expiration date because my life is in your and so much more interesting than, you know, in my 40s, I thought my life was great in my 30s and 40s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you kidding?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was flying high and living all over the world, but it's incredible how the arc is still going up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because I am embracing the fact that, yeah, I'm not done.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's such an important message though that life doesn't need to stop because you hit a certain age.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think that is such a misconception in just, it's really toxic.
[SPEAKER_03]: Actually, that's even a belief system that our society holds.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm really, yeah, like, whether it's life, love, whatever it is, aspect of your life, career, love, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's hopeful to do that it never, like, you're just evolving.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the theme for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's no such thing as too late, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything can happen around the corner, anything can happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're here for all that magic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, congratulations to you, May, on serving this new chapter, and evolving your identity, evolving your life.
[SPEAKER_02]: If people want to get to know you better, because you now that you've also evolved your own show, the melee show is now, shoes off inside, tell us where people can find you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so shoes off and side with MKT and then Kelly who and Tamlyn Tamida and they're my co-hosts and so if you guys are familiar with Hollywood Trailblazers, those two are definitely two trailblazers and that show is on YouTube and then of course on all podcast platforms so we have a lot of fun on that show and we're all women in our 50s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: On a, again, break the stereotype that women are done, and, you know, you just put us on the shelf and we go away, clearly not, especially here at a stay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, especially with Asian women, I think there's a lot of stigma there too of trying to stay really super useful in all that, but all three of us are showing our grades too are great here.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're really trying to redefine.
[SPEAKER_00]: what it is to be older badass women.
[SPEAKER_00]: So fantastic.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's all women.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's definitely Asian women, but it's probably resonating with every woman out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're we're claiming our space and we're not letting, you know, these old traditional rules and stereotypes take over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's keep doing our thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's keep you guys too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're doing our thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to the psychology of relationships today.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you don't miss an episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll see you all next week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye.