[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to another episode of Shooting the Shit with Literary Agents, Carly Waters, and CC Lyra.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where we dissect publishing gossip, discuss book industry trends, and the overall state of the book business.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd ever wanted to grab a coffee with two literary agents, grab your mug, and pull up a chair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are so glad to see you once again.
[SPEAKER_01]: We hope you're watching us on YouTube so you can see I'm wearing my funky glasses I also haven't figured out like my winter lighting for my zoom calls.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very dark in here, and I'm like I don't know you guys on YouTube got to let me know what you think about my lighting situation because it's a battle It gets dark a little early here in the northern hemisphere right now when the contributes to my winter sads used you get with your sads CCC
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I get winter sadsies.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because I grew up in the Southern Hemisphere.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where they're the year you have summer, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet we talk a lot about how the sadsies happen when you're in the New Year's situation, like a New Year beginning anxiety.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that in the states, in Canada, people attribute that to winter, which I'm not saying there's isn't a component to that, but actually I know from experience that a lot of people just experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, New Year, it's so interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's more like It's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's when summer is and some of the biggest parties haven't been in New Year, you know, like some of the biggest wireless parties people are outpipates.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hot people are
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, around people, but, but it's not so I don't get, I don't get winter blues.
[SPEAKER_02]: I quite like winter.
[SPEAKER_02]: I quite like being indoors.
[SPEAKER_02]: People are asking me all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh my god, it's a Brazilian, how do you survive?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I survived by being happy.
[SPEAKER_02]: My body doesn't like it though.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have like rain notes disease and my hands are always cold.
[SPEAKER_02]: My feet are always cold.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have allergies because of the cold like my body doesn't like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But my mind does because I love staying in and I feel like in winter time it is socially acceptable to stay in.
[SPEAKER_02]: People don't pressure you to go out as much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm an introvert.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to stay in a really good book.
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to see me happy?
[SPEAKER_02]: Give me a good book.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know yummy food.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: How about you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you get it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I do, I mean, I don't know if it's like a clinical analysis or clinical diagnosis.
[SPEAKER_01]: I call it Wintersadzi's, I call it Sadzi's cutting a big fun of it, you know, obviously it's I shouldn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: make fun of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is obviously a real illness, so real disease.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not my intention.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more for myself to give it some levity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because yeah, I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a combination of the cold, like the feeling I almost feel and I know you guys can't see outside my window or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I feel like we're getting so much snow.
[SPEAKER_01]: We get a lot of snow in on while where it almost makes me feel a little bit claustrophobic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel closed in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the snow is coming in the pile and I feel like I'm where's you're like, I can't wait to be bundled inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, I am feeling boxed in on all sides.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel a little bit of that, but I try to lean into it, you know, in terms of reading more, being cozy, all of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do try to do like a warm weather vacation to that I can escape.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're such an active person like.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know that I feel like that must be a challenge like given that you're an active person and I know you skin stuff but like it can't be the same like when you're an active person it must be hard to hey yeah active person so for me it's quite quite easy yeah you want to move your body so yeah we lots of fun things to talk about today there's been a big kind of publishing investment news so we're not talking about that first
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we're not talking about that first.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not looking at the order of our shared doc.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I see it now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are going to be kick off this episode by clearing my name.
[SPEAKER_02]: As you guys know, I'm a fan of Brigadero's Brigadero's, if you don't know what Brigadero's are, they are a delicious sweet treat made with sweet and condensed milk.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are very popular in Brazil, you know, if I love you, I have sent you Brigadero's, if I have not sent you Brigadero's yet, they are on their way unless you're like lactose intolerant or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: My point is, Brigadero's are about sharing love, and I'm obsessed with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as a Brazilian, I wanted to, like it's my mission to spread the word on this amazing sweet treat.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have symptoms to curly multiple times, and she's either as a very good lawyer where she enjoys them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, this is the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mary's Brigadieros, which is a brand of authentic Brigadieros, very important that your Brigadieros be authentic people.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mary's Brigadieros, she ships worldwide.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's physical stores too, but again, she ships to most places in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not an ad, by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no sponsor situation happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: I might just want to actually share my honest opinion.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mary is freaking down.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to put it in.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more like CCU sponsoring them, but by investing in them, by buying something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that is fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I love Mary's Big Deros and I got an advent calendar that I have been sharing every day and
[SPEAKER_02]: my stories every day open a street and I've received multiple DMs accusing me of faking the videos, telling me that I've opened all the doors already, all the doors to all the days and saying you're just posting videos that you pre-record it, I am offended, I'm really not.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I am a fake offended by this accusation and I want to show my advent calendar because Carly is a very honorable person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Carly is a terrible liar, guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys speak to me to know this about Carly.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's very bad at lying, she's very honest, very transparent, twin annoying degree.
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys should know this about her.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she wouldn't lie.
[SPEAKER_02]: She wouldn't lie for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: She just wouldn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the calendar.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you see how the days are still closed?
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is one side of the calendar.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really big.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm being like, this is huge.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, this is the other side of the calendar.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes it holds a tent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, these are also open, but like, I managed to keep these little doors.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a cookie in Los Angeles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she's even eating 10.
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, it is halfway through the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: It shows me what this is.
[SPEAKER_02]: See, see.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, and like the 11, that's tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that by the time this airs, it will not be tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_02]: But as today is the 10.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's more.
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't opened it yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: See, not open.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not open.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK. Now, justice for C.C.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, but a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here, I'm sorry, guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is probably the second day of our episode, where it's like.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but like a bad ASMR, like torture ASMR.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, but this is my cookie.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will be having it after we record because I'm not going to make you guys, you know, watch me eat.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are people who do watch on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I just want to say justice for me, I am actually opening a treat a day and it's not that big of a deal because I have other cookies and other Brigadieros in my I was going to say if you have two of these.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's your show set and that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone just keeps accusing me and do not have two sets.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just have extra Brigadieros and extra.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that would actually be really smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: as I said CC kept keeps them in business and and I have had the Brigadier as I see he said she has sent them to me and they're delicious and they're lovely and then it's so thoughtful and yeah CC's a great gift giver okay so as I said we got lots of things we are probably things to talk about too this may be our longest just a little like banter session that we've ever had we've had lots to lots to debrief on okay so we have some businessy stuff to talk about and then we have some kind of DM stuff that you guys have said
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got some stuff to get it to.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to start by just breaking some news.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, as you guys know, we recorded ahead of time, but this came out today, the investment group, the Scherdin Group has purchased a minority stake in entangled and tangled publishing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So entangled co-founder and CEO, this PLTA still retains a majority ownership and maintains full creative control.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the Wall Street Journal reported that this currently will value entangled at $400 million.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that means that it now puts entangled in league with source books, which the goal I think is to kind of break into this large structure of publishing with some newer ventures, obviously publishing has been around a long time and tangled has been around I want to say maybe 12 years and just over a decade so you know obviously they they've built that from the ground up which is incredible and this publishers lunch article says that
[SPEAKER_01]: entangled is joined by Zando and Sourcebooks as a trio of independently run female lead publishers growing at high rates.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to highlight the female lead portion of the three independent publishers that are kind of coming up on the heels of McFive.
[SPEAKER_01]: So shout out to female lead businesses.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that shout out.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really awesome to see
[SPEAKER_02]: women in power in publishing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will never forget Carly and myself at the PopCon conference.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the people of publishing conference organized by the Association of American Literary Agents.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all the CEOs on stage were men, which, you know, it's nice to see representation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually thinking of an episode I listened to.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was actually a one day who recommended this podcast to me and I loved the recommendation.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a podcast called OpenBuck with David Steinberger and all the interviews are awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been binge listening to them, but I actually really, really love the interview with Dominique, who is the CEO of SourceBucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a question that David asks of her is, you know, you're the only woman CEO in publishing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she responds in a way that I thought was very smart, very honest and very astute, which was, I don't think that's empowering for other women, because I didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't get the role.
[SPEAKER_02]: I created the role.
[SPEAKER_02]: She founded this company.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, it's still empowering, of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she didn't mean it in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not empowering in any way.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when you look at the other publishers, the big five and you're like, all those other men got hired versus Dominic's role, she didn't get hired.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's a really important distinction to make here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I appreciated her honesty.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like, you know, it's the conversation that we need to keep happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to keep having this conversation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's complicated.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and these other two publishers were also founded by these women, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So the women who are at the head of these founded these, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They created these jobs and created these roles just to underscore what you were saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's super empowering from the perspective of women just doing what they got to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, creating their own table, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you're not going to get a seat at that table, then make your own table.
[SPEAKER_02]: You come to my table.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're getting huge investments, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And growing in.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all really good for the book business.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So next we had a few things to chat about.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got a really good DM.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to pull it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have it handy, but see, see, do you want to run through this really good DM that we got?
[SPEAKER_02]: We got this DM and I thought it was one of the most interesting questions that we've ever gotten.
[SPEAKER_02]: So shout out to this person for asking such an interesting question.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to keep you anonymous because you made it clear that you wanted to be anonymous.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm going to read your question because there's nothing identifying in the question itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi, CC.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if this is the right place to DM you related to questions for shooting the shit which I love and religiously listen to, in case it is here it goes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was reading Jenna Statterwate's podcast Love, Love Meaning She loves the podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she wrote the following about being closed to queries, quote, I have to admit I have an extremely acute case of phomo.
[SPEAKER_02]: For the past many months in my agent discord, my agent friends will pop in and be like,
[SPEAKER_02]: or anyone else considering my query inbox, a dark romance, reading and loving so far, and quote.
[SPEAKER_02]: So my question, anonymously, is do agents do this all the time?
[SPEAKER_02]: Talk about our queries, asking each other if they like or thinking of offering in chats and forums with other agents.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does this work for or against querying authors in your view?
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for considering this question for your podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, this is among the top most interesting questions we've received.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I had strong feelings about it
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, do you want to go first, girl?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's up to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you seem like you have a strong, I have strong feelings too, and you go first.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I personally do not do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not go on.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're not talking about between my colleagues at my agency, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's not what the question is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make that clear.
[SPEAKER_02]: I talk, I talk about queries with my colleagues.
[SPEAKER_02]: We share a query in box.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, I personally don't do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't go on my agent slacks, and I do belong to
[SPEAKER_02]: few agents with agents from various agencies, lovely, lovely agents who are my friends.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we talk about many things, but do not talk about queries.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would never say, hey, has anyone received such and such a query.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking of offering.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just wouldn't do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't do that because, you know, I'm just being super transparent here, and I guess really honest, I feel like this is a situation where I have to keep my cards close to my chest, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be sharing the stuff I'm interested in.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess each person has their own way of doing things, but I don't think it's in my best interest to be sharing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have my own process.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like what I like.
[SPEAKER_02]: If no other agent is going to bid on the thing that I want, it doesn't make me want it less.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not even a little bit less.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I want what I want, and I feel very strongly that my taste is my taste.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know a good story when I see one.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I just don't talk about it at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: What has come up before this is a different thing is,
[SPEAKER_02]: find out that another agent signs someone or sold a book and therefore signs someone that I had offered on and then I might mention that to the agent if we're friends I might say oh you know so great that you got that project because I you know I was also an offering agent on that that's fine but that happens way down the line not like well the query still active so I wouldn't do it I don't think it's in our best interest as agents to the point of whether it's in the author's best interest or not
[SPEAKER_02]: Honestly, I think it's like most things in life where it can help, it can get more people interested, depending if people suffer from phomo, but it could also hurt because it could also
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, what if what if an agent decides not to offer because their buddy is is offering.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like maybe there's an agent who would do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I just feel like there's a lot of variables to that part of the equation and it can be good, it can be bad, but I've never done it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I honestly did not think that it was such a common thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had heard about it before, but I didn't think it was such a common thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: What about you, Carly?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I agree with everything you said because I am also of the, you know, Constitution where I feel like I got to keep my cards close to my chest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why would I tell other people that I'm competing for the same?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know, if you want to go buy a house and you're like, hey, friend, you're also looking for a house.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just go in and bid on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's different because there's money, but you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why would you create or competition for yourself?
[SPEAKER_01]: And not in a way where it's like, I don't want the author to have competition.
[SPEAKER_01]: But why would I like,
[SPEAKER_01]: go out court in competition I guess is what I would say.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I agree with you there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually would you didn't bring this up and we can talk about I actually feel kind of achy from a confidentiality point of view to be perfectly honest with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that like flagged for you at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you see like you know I think those authors assume if they are querying an agent to their agency to that email to that inbox that querying manager or however they're sending it in that there's the assumption that this is for you
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, obviously, it's kind of within your agency system.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it could be shared around there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wouldn't really take it upon myself to send it to other agencies, because what if that author was like, oh, well, that agent's in my next round?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you send it to someone so agent, and now I can't send it to another agent that that agency, because you, you served to be by sending it there and now it looks like old hat, because I didn't query that agent.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I just feel like we're taking that agency away from that author to make those their own decisions about their career.
[SPEAKER_01]: on the flip side so like the counter argument to that would just be most others just really want to get their books in front of agents and so you know if that if somebody heard me say that they're like, well Carly you have so many agents friends I would love it if you just said like hey other agent friend like great book, you know so I think it's very situational but you know on my most business hat point of view would be confidentiality issues and on my most like
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, what a author's born point of view had.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be.
[SPEAKER_01]: They probably just want more agents to look at their material.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can see both sides of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't do this though for the competition reason though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a really interesting point you bring up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's really fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there an expectation of strict confidentiality?
[SPEAKER_02]: I know there's an expectation of confidentiality, but how strict is it?
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the boundaries?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's obviously the angle which you mentioned of the author's wanted, but there's also the angle of
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's actually building on what you said, authors often ask us, if you read something and you think it's really good, but it's not for you, will you please share it, and again, sharing it among our agencies, different, but is it okay to share?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's just so complex, you know, I feel like it's really complex because if you also get back to the author and say,
[SPEAKER_02]: I know an agent who might want this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I, can I share?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, are you getting her?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting the soup.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're getting their hopes up, but also going to be super honest here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that I would be down for doing that kind of admin work, like we're talking about a whole bunch of emails, a whole bunch of matchmaking, like it might seem silly, but our days are already full as it is, like I don't have time to be checking with an author, checking with an agent, making sure they're both okay and connecting people, like I just still have time to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm really interested in hearing from you guys, you know, you're watching this, you're listening to this, what do you feel, let us know on the comments,
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been looking at the comments more often and I really love hearing from you guys it's it's a complex issue.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think there are Clear clear boundaries when it comes to what's okay to share and what's not
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to give an example of when I have done this, because I think maybe that can provide some context.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is an author who, and she's going to know, or she's listening to this, who she has queried me before we follow each other on Instagram, she's writing a memoir and any age, it's actually done listening to this feel free to be at me about this person, but like she's such a beautiful writer, incredible story.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've read her memoir twice and I'm still like, I just don't think I can sell this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so she's somebody where I actually have reached out to often with her permission.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have reached out to other agent friends to be like, you know, I don't ever do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the other thing is like, I don't do this, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if I never do this, but like, you know, there is this really talented memoir author.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're looking for a memoir author, I think she's really talented.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not for me, but I just kind of wanted to get the heads up because I think she's really talented.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: I go to bat like that for non-client, very infrequently.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's just certain people sometimes in your life for you to just feel like I just really want to help this person like we just feel like that is human's and his agents.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have done that this author.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, if I can somehow surrogate her in agent, I would love to do that because she's so talented.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she has a great story, but yeah, she hasn't found an agent yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, I just wanted to give that one example, because that would be a context in which full consent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know what you're talking about, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to ask you once we're done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, ask me after.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that was a fun one.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a fun one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's break, throw to sponsors, and let's get back into the rest of the questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so our next question we are going to tackle was another one sent into CC, and this person says in a big fan of the show, would love to hear you guys discuss on the topic of whether or not it's a good idea to query an agent who represents one of your comps.
[SPEAKER_01]: I read a comment somewhere that indicated an agent might not want to take out a project that's too similar to something that's already represented.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was running your opinion on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for all the information you share.
[SPEAKER_01]: To me, there's so many layered factors.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I'm laughing because I'm like, I say this every time.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many layers and nuances too, every answer that we have to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason this one is really nuanced to me is it depends on which of my books it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I have represented some books that are kind of iconic in their space.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I often feel like when people query me
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what are you comping to, like, do I need another one of those?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've said this before, I don't know if I said this on the podcast, but one of the things I feel tension around when people comp, and queried me with books that I've sold, is that that book that you are querying me with has to be as good as that book.
[SPEAKER_01]: and like with all cops right we always want the book that the person is pitching to be as good as that company so if I've sold a really top title in a category and you're comping to that and I'm like okay is that book as good as that cop you know it is as that client book so it doesn't mean you can't do it it just means like I have incredibly high standards for who's gonna be on my list to begin with let alone how they fit in with some of again the mark on a book set I represented
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's that piece, the other piece is that it kind of depends on if the agent is a generalist or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: If somebody is a romance agent, for example, or there's a certain agent that's less work really specifically in certain categories, they're going to represent a lot of your comps.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I can think of a couple of agencies when I think of romance.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, you're going to query them for your romance, and those are going to be comps.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it just kind of makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing is, you know, that agent can sell in that category, so they are potentially a good fit for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You also, it kind of depends on the time between how much time has passed between when
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, because if I sold that comp a long time ago, then I maybe do actually have a gap and for that one, or if your comp is something that just came out, I might still be pitching that for sub rights and film and TV and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then you're kind of in competition with that title in a certain sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's very layered to me just depends on which of my books you're comping to, which I know it doesn't really help answer the question, but let's see, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when I got this DM what I most loved about it and why I chose to include that in our our episode today, because I'll be honest guys, we've been sending us a lot of DMs.
[SPEAKER_02]: We love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Keep sending them.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's no way we can answer all of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: But why I really wanted to address this one is because it's actually a question that we as agents also have to answer and decide when we are choosing editors.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if one of my clients' comps is book X and book X, you know, belongs to this editor, and I thought, think, huh, should I submit to that editor?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, do they already have that kind of book?
[SPEAKER_02]: Would they want more?
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the book did so well that they would want another one.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I love about this question, and I actually think this highlights an interesting reality of being an agent, which is that we face many of the same challenges that you guys face.
[SPEAKER_02]: It might not sound like it, but you know, you have to find a way to write a really compelling pitch that's going to grab someone's attention in your case, querying writers and agents in 300 words, so do we.
[SPEAKER_02]: When we pitch editors, we face the same challenges that I am always like, I can never do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes me so long to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then what I finally do it, I'm like, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to figure out whether, you know, we can submit to an editor who bought the book that we're accompanied to.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to figure out sales, like we have to figure out so many of the things that you guys also have to figure out, but then on a different stage of the process that, you know, it's one of the reasons why agents have a lot of empathy, I think, for the challenges and the hurdles that query writer's face, and it's another reason why agents don't keep a high bar because if we are subject to that high bar, then you need to be subject to that high bar, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: I never mind when someone uses one of my comps, ever as long as I go, oh yeah, it makes total sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a very applicable comp.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I mind and it happens sometimes is when the book is clearly not a comp.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're just choosing it because you think it's going to like, please me that you made your book, you know, like that's the part that I go, please don't do that seriously.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've got queries before where authors have
[SPEAKER_01]: Comp to a book that hasn't come out yet, and I was like, you just want to publish this marketplace or My Instagram.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I've sold them were like, oh, I'm going to comp to this future book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, this book doesn't exist yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's the galley's already been out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, how are you copied?
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm just like, hmm, look at that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what I mind, I think, I think that, you know, whether something, I just feel like there's so many ways to make a story original as long as, like, let's say the comp is the combat the author's choosing is something that, you know, it's on my list, it's recent, it's fresh, I might not be looking for another one quite yet, but then there's such an original angle that it just makes it such a different book, I would still be excited.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would never mind again, and last we're talking about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: situation where it's like clearly manipulation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like don't do that situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I would never mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would never mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wouldn't bug me.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm not, I'm also not saying it's going to like make your query stand out more.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like I think it's really just about finding the perfect comp.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then and then if I am the agent that you want to submit to, I don't think that the fact that I have representative book that's similar in the past should stop you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that that should be the one thing that's making you want to design with me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there should be other
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to plug it up coming episode while I have you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to plug CC and I are going to record an episode all about money and you guys might have heard me talk about this on socials.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to plug it here as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're listening to this on the day, it comes out which is a Monday, we're recording the money episode on Wednesday.
[SPEAKER_01]: So comment on this one or check out my socials because I'm going to post a little question box.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can obviously ask it publicly as well on the reels or on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you want to ask it anonymously, I'm putting together a little question box where you can ask your questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, I've got some really good questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't shared them with you yet, CC.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've got some good ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know there's so many like big hairy money questions where you're like, I don't know how to ask this or where to ask this or, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: what is real, what is realistic, how does this actually work, and even if you've listened to us for a long time, there's still stuff that you might not know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're doing our big money episode, recording them in a couple days.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, just make sure you send in your big, hairy money questions because I'm looking forward to recording that one next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's next week's recording.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that will come out in two weeks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited for that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now very curious about the questions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, we're going to answer a DM that when I first started reading it, I was like, oh my god, this person's asking a question that's already been answered, but that's not true.
[SPEAKER_02]: They actually highlighted an original angle and I stand corrected.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the writer's essentially asking, if I've submitted to books with hooks, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: Should I still query you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, as you guys know, and the writer knows this, the writer who asks this question knows this.
[SPEAKER_02]: The podcast is an educational resource.
[SPEAKER_02]: Carly and I are also open to queries in our jobs as literary agents, but that is a totally separate thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: The podcast is not affiliated, it has never been affiliated with any literary agency.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to query Carly or myself and or myself, you are welcome to do so, but it is totally unrelated to this podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have said this multiple times.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the writer in her DM said, I know you've shared this.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've shared the podcast as an educational resource, but this is an interesting, but I've also seen you get really excited when you read really good pages and say, I would be open to getting this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would be thrilled to get this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the author goes on to say, I don't want to waste your time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And probably she doesn't want to waste her as either, though she doesn't highlight that, because she's polite.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she's like, like, if you're not enthusiastic, should I just be smart and be like, I'm going to put a different agent.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll share my own take on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that it comes down to a few things.
[SPEAKER_02]: One, I might not have been like, oh my god, send this to me now, but I might have enjoyed several elements of it, and I might have given you notes that resonated, and then you might have gone and done edits, change the story substantially, and now I might actually quite love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, if
[SPEAKER_02]: if I did not fall in love with it immediately.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you have made changes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is a very important factor.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I am the agent you want within my agency.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then yes, I personally think it's not a waste of time to query me at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds smart.
[SPEAKER_02]: But
[SPEAKER_02]: If other factors are true, like you've changed it, it's different.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's another agent at my agency that you think would be a better fit than, please query them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I promise I also will not be offended, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I want people to, like if you're querying me, I think you need to want to work with me.
[SPEAKER_02]: With my own unique special blend of agenting, that's very, very unique to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if that's you, I'm so honored, like I'm so honored to get all your queries.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's also no expectation, you know, and I think that's really important to highlight.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's a waste of time as long as all of these variables are present.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I appreciate the question.
[SPEAKER_02]: How about you, Carly?
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you feel?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think she's getting at some of the nuance here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, can we play a drinking game where every time Carly says nuance or it's layered or it's vague?
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's just do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: With what?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't get drunk.
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason this one has some layers to it because as agents like it's our job to be like, oh, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: What about that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you know, like we have to kind of be on our toes about things that are interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even if things are half baked and they come into the podcast half baked or again, because it's an educational platform.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is an educational piece happening there.
[SPEAKER_01]: We still might be like, oh, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: because it's just our natural jobs and our natural instincts.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't turn that piece of me off even when I'm trying to educate you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I'm better at it than others and days I'm better at than others than wearing my education hat and wearing my agent hat because in a lot of ways they're the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so sometimes things do jump out at me right away.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also, you know, I've been doing this long enough where I'm trying to mentor.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm younger, agents at the agency.
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes I'll be like, hey guys, you know, read something interesting at the podcast today
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, communicate that internally and just be like, hey, you know, here's you just admitted to FES literary and try to kind of foster that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm always on the lookout for good stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my job.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I agree with everything CC said, which is just because you don't hear me go, send me that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't mean you can't send it to me because of all the reasons you can edit it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can take my notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can evolve into something else.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it can come into me or anybody else's agency.
[SPEAKER_01]: So lots of lots of options there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like, you know, in both our cases, like, we all share internally, you know, and so there's that advantage too, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I think I, I, I, I, it's still baffles me.
[SPEAKER_02]: This thing is never going to get old for me, you know, I'm going to be very honest.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't know what this says about me, but the fact that,
[SPEAKER_02]: Thousands of people who are writing books choose me and query me like it is such an honor and I'm still in awe of it a little bit You know, I'm still in a state of disbelief.
[SPEAKER_02]: I I review queries searching for my next best best seller like I review queries going
[SPEAKER_02]: which one of these of these queries is going to be the one I fall in love with.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's this level of excitement and so I think that when you're choosing the agent that you're going to submit your query to, there's a lot of factors that you should consider and don't forget that you are sending it to someone who is quite likely very, very honored and very, very happy to even be considered and to have a chance to read your work because it is so much worth that you guys put into
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, one of the things that was really drill into me at my very first publishing job, which was being an assistant adult at our agency was just the level of respect that we had for authors like they were
[SPEAKER_01]: There are customers essentially because it's we've felt so driven and motivated by being at our best because if we have to work on if we want to work on the best books, we have to attract the best clients in an order to do that with the treat them with the
[SPEAKER_01]: and, you know, just really, really great commercial agency.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, you know, just loved the team there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just the amount of care and thoughtfulness that went into everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like logging things in the way we communicated.
[SPEAKER_01]: And from top down, it was very much like, don't let a crazy slup through the cracks.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and it's hard sometimes when back then it was like physical things.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even when emails like, not letting things slip through the cracks is what you're letting through slip through the cracks.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've let something slip through the crack is a human being who's like, great art piece could be the one.
[SPEAKER_01]: That quote unquote, so they're cracked like tip to us.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to me, that's just unfathomable.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just feel so strongly about that level of care and attention to the artwork that you guys are putting into the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd never, ever, you know, is something that I ever take for granted either.
[SPEAKER_02]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what makes our jobs so magical.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so our last order of business, I think, I think it's our last one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of wanted to take some time to address questions that you guys are sending our way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, as you could see, especially based on this episode, we usually take a few minutes, sometimes we'll have minutes, I'm out of each shooting the shit episode, to address certain DMs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it might make sense to talk about the fact that yes, our DMs are open, like, please DM us.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what this podcast is all about.
[SPEAKER_02]: At the same time, we should probably talk about like, what makes for a good question.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a question that's likely to get selected and that we will talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: What conversely makes for a bad, I'm using air quotes here, question.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe talk about some examples, respectfully, of course, like not calling anyone out.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the harm of an actual quote unquote bad question?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, is there harm like, like, why not just throw your question out there and then if it gets picked up, it gets picked up?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't think that's a good strategy and that's something we'll get into and then also like, maybe some recommendations that we could share.
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, Crowley, do you want to kick it off or do you want me to?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's start with good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe that's where I will be of high strength.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, as part of this, I'm going to be honest with you guys, it's a little bit selfish because I want to talk about things that I feel like I can contribute to the conversation on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I guess this is kind of the counterpoint of a bad question, quote unquote, you know, loosely describing this as a bad question is like, is the thing Googleable, you know, is the thing something that you can find in a way where you don't have to, you know, write us a DM.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of things, a lot of resources out there where you can find things that are straightforward.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like questions I live a more complex, you know, whether it's something that feels like there's some layers to it or some nuance or it's specific to me question just because I've been doing a lot of talking for a lot of years about this business and so I've heard everybody's questions about how do I stand out in the marketplace and what makes a good query and all of these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to talk about things that I think are interesting and one of the things that CC and I both really liked about the first question that we talked about today was because it intersected with a lot of interesting things it was like it was a strategy question it was an agent specific question it was behind the scenes question it was
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, it was something I could argue both sides of a different, a different podcast or or like vehicle, you know, like she did different media or article or link.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I like when I can also argue both sides of it, too, because you know, that's something where we can explain to you guys about what are some of the strategy pieces.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm at my best to help you guys answer your questions when you give me a bit of a strategy to work with, and it's not something that's usually Googleable.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree with everything that you just said.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I take your point when you say that's a selfish reason, but I also think there's a second piece to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess first, first I should describe what I think is a bad question, bad quote unquote.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are questions that we get.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like there's two categories.
[SPEAKER_02]: One is,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, Googleable, but also covered before.
[SPEAKER_02]: This podcast has several episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you allowed to DM us without having listened to a single one, yes?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no jail, I can't put you in jail.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I think it's a smart strategy?
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that listening to several episodes and seeing what we've already covered will not only enlighten and inform you, hopefully if we do our jobs, but also will allow you to probably not even have that question in the first place.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you can actually ask the smart question that lives inside of you that you haven't gotten to yet
[SPEAKER_02]: part of the research that you can do on your own.
[SPEAKER_02]: So stuff that's been covered, stuff that we have talked about, stuff that other really great podcasts and other mediums have talked about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the other side to this is, I, like, in the last month alone, I counted, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's part of why I want to talk about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've received 17, one-seven questions in the vein of, like, again, I'm not going to
[SPEAKER_02]: I write an English, but my book has certain words in a different language and the way I'm doing it now is I'm worried it's overexplaning.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I am including the words in the different language and then I'm including with the translation means and at first I like that, but now I don't know that I like that and I've heard that readers don't like that, but I've heard that readers do like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And while I'm deciding, I've also don't know if I should write this in first person or third person.
[SPEAKER_02]: And here's, again, I'm probably going to sound like a big jerk.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where's my Grinch hat?
[SPEAKER_02]: He'll do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Grinch hat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: No one can answer these questions, people.
[SPEAKER_02]: No one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I were to answer you, yes, you should write, you know, the words in the language that you mean x-way or you should choose third person point of view or
[SPEAKER_02]: I would be being completely irresponsible, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: I have not read your work.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if I had read your work, I probably would need a little bit more specificity in your question to be able to offer you an opinion, because what you're essentially saying is, hey, I'm figuring out this aspect of storytelling.
[SPEAKER_02]: For example, which POV to write the story in first, second, third, and you're asking me for any insights.
[SPEAKER_02]: The questions always ask with.
[SPEAKER_02]: Any insights would be greatly appreciated, which yes, it's sweet.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hear you as a human, I hear you.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's not a smart question.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a good question.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a question that, and, you know, this is where I want to talk about, what's the harm?
[SPEAKER_02]: But what is the harm of asking that, CC?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it because you're annoyed to get the DMs?
[SPEAKER_02]: I promise you it's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: The DMs do not annoy me at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: The harm is twofold.
[SPEAKER_02]: One, just being very honest, you are making an impression.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when I see a question like this, I assume that this person is probably not ready yet to be a creator, because they are trying to outsource decisions that they cannot outsource.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are creative decisions that come down to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Two, I think that you're being mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: your brain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Your brain in order to become an author, you need to go through a paradigm shift, where you realize that you were working in a highly subjective industry, and artistic decisions are yours and yours alone to make.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you will gather intel from various sources, beta reader critique partners, articles, books on creative writing, among others, you will gather intel, but the creative decision is yours and yours alone, and the ability to make
[SPEAKER_02]: should be something that you can do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you can do that yet, that's okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: But go work on developing your pallets so you're able to make that decision.
[SPEAKER_02]: And by asking these questions, I think you're keeping your brain in a space of, I have to go to someone else on the outside to get those answers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think you should be doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you should be training your brain to come up with these answers yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that a lot of people when they send me these questions, what they're actually doing and so much empathy, they're looking for emotional validation.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're looking for me to go, oh my God, you're working so hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for working so hard during your story.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you'll figure this out.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're looking for a cheerleader, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is okay, a lot of people need cheerleaders.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's face it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not why you should be DMing me because, I mean, sure, I can give you that raw raw pip talk, but you probably have people in your life.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can do that for you, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and then you can save your DMs and save your questions for something that I can actually add value to.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that there's that saying when in doubt ask, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But when in doubt means you've already researched, you've already gone out and done the work and you actually hit a wall.
[SPEAKER_02]: and I don't think that that is necessarily being done by everyone.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just want to encourage you guys to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to encourage you to use your own critical thinking, your own research skills, to do a lot of that heavy lifting.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you will come across a question like the ones that we've covered before, especially the great first one, that'll be like, oh my god, that's really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: We should talk about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you will come up with better questions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Another recommendation I have in addition to like read, read, read, and research on your own
[SPEAKER_02]: Whenever you have a question, let's say your question is, should I write my book in first person or third person?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or, I don't know, something like, should I begin my book with an action scene or with an introspective scene?
[SPEAKER_02]: Whatever your question is, I recommend you trying to answer it, pretend that you're someone else, pretend that you're the agent that you're DM me, whether it's me or someone else, and pretend that you're someone else and try answering that question.
[SPEAKER_02]: And imagine that you get a cookie, where's my cookie?
[SPEAKER_02]: Imagine that you get a cookie, if you get it right, so that you'll be really motivated to get it right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Try answering the question for yourself, because if you have no idea what the answer could even be, that's a sign that the question is not fully formed and fully developed yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, I think that you haven't, you know, turned on that critical thinking that I think you need to, honestly, like, this is, this is hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to say that talking about the subject is hard for me, because we, we are an educational podcast and I want this podcast to be a safe space for everyone.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want everyone to feel safe.
[SPEAKER_02]: At the same time, I want to be realistic and honest about how high the bar is in traditional publishing and if most of our listeners are querying writers who want to make it in traditional publishing, I would not be doing them any favors by not sharing certain things like, hey, these questions, we gotta talk about these questions, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I hope that we can foster a safe space.
[SPEAKER_02]: while also encouraging you guys to really, really use your creative and imaginative smart brains to up your question game.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I promise, I'm not trying to call anyone out, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: If anyone's offended, hey, tell me, I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings, but I think that both things are possible and I hope that I can do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think this speaks to a couple of things, which is just because we are people on the internet,
[SPEAKER_01]: people have a pair of social relationship with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of you have met us in person, obviously, taken our courses, been around us in that virtual sense, been around us in the personal sense that there is an open door.
[SPEAKER_01]: And CC and I are very open books as you can see, and you know, being a person on the internet for 15 years, there's a lot of information that you can kind of find out that I've been able to share.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was also other agents, most agents are not like us in that open book sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you also can't think like, oh, see, seeing currently answer questions and DMs sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So on their podcast, you also have to remember, other agents aren't like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you also can't apply what you were doing in this pair social relationship to other agents, either, because they don't function like that, because it isn't actually my job to answer your DMs.
[SPEAKER_01]: My job is to be a literary agent and my job is also to run this podcast, but how we kind of run this podcast is subdocs, you know, and so there's a lot of times I don't answer questions, I just, I look at them and I don't respond because I can't because they're really specific, and I just don't have time, right, and so that's the piece that I have always grappled with as a person on the internet of like, what do I have the capacity to answer today or any other day, you know, is this, how is this part of my job, how is this not part of my job,
[SPEAKER_01]: How does this make me a better agent?
[SPEAKER_01]: How does this serve my clients?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I grapple with all that on a daily basis with how I interact and just as a person on the internet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So as I said, it's always a little bit different.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want to help.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is why I want to do this if I didn't want to help.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just how I help is up to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why I'm like, oh, some questions, all answers, some I won't, sometimes I respond to your DMs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I don't, but it's really just out of time preservation and job preservation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't want you to read anything else into it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I think that you said a line that you just said it's up to me and if I am a writer, I'm listening to that I'm going, okay, but can you tell me how you make that decision?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're able to and I think that's what we're doing here, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're going through criteria for like, hey, if you want your question to be answered, these are the questions that we are really keen on taking.
[SPEAKER_02]: We would not be spending, we spent so much time with this podcast, which is so much fun, like I have the time of my life, but it's also a lot of work, you know, and like literally today, there's something that I can't talk about that I should be doing, but I'm here and like I had to push the other thing I have to do, because we record from from noon to one, like that's that's when we record and I had to send an email to be like, I'm not available.
[SPEAKER_02]: My point is our time is super valuable, yes, but also like how can you then send the best chance of
[SPEAKER_02]: getting that time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, again, it comes down to asking questions that show me that you've done the work, show me that you've turned on your critical thinking and show me that you are not expecting me to be a cheerleader or like a raw, raw person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because again, that's like just don't send me a question, send me a comment, share, be like, see, see, here's an update on my situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's awesome, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that also show me that you are not expecting me to make creative decisions for you because I can't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or even to weigh in on them when they're having
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that is my rant.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need a cookie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I was a good rant.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you've earned your cookie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so we've lots of fun things to to cover in future episodes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We look forward to your questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really am very keen on our money episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're recording next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just a reminder of my money.
[SPEAKER_02]: Money, money, money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't have the rights to that song.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stop singing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can sing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can still sing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can't play it, but I can sing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just teasing you, go have your cookie earned it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody we will see you again next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: CCLera is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to query CC, please refer to the Submission Guidelines at www.wshoman.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: Carly Waters is a literary agent at PS Literary Agency, but a work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: are solely that of her as a podcast co-host and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS literary agency.