WEBVTT 00:05.313 --> 00:13.521 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to Table Talk, a show where I chat with other creators in the TTRPG space about how they run their tables. 00:14.101 --> 00:28.735 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Danger'd Andrews, the GM and host of D&D Ark, and joining us at the table today is an improvisor, writer, and GM, who is also the creator of the TTRPG sleepaway camp for adults, Dungeons and Cappins, Sammy Glicker. 00:29.115 --> 00:29.456 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello! 00:29.476 --> 00:29.536 [SPEAKER_01]: Hi! 00:30.777 --> 00:32.839 [SPEAKER_01]: So good to talk with you again. 00:32.819 --> 00:37.433 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you so much for agreeing to be here in Chitchat with me to get us started. 00:37.473 --> 00:44.415 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your history with the TTRPG community and, of course, about Dungeons and Cabins. 00:44.598 --> 00:44.898 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 00:44.998 --> 00:47.781 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yeah, like you said, I'm a writer and I'm an improviser. 00:47.862 --> 00:48.762 [SPEAKER_01]: I play D&D. 00:48.843 --> 00:50.624 [SPEAKER_01]: I also play video games. 00:50.805 --> 00:52.927 [SPEAKER_01]: I host really silly parties. 00:53.347 --> 00:57.172 [SPEAKER_01]: The most recent of which I had a mayonnaise taste testing party and a pickle party. 00:57.992 --> 00:59.914 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we could spend a whole other hour on those. 00:59.995 --> 01:04.299 [SPEAKER_01]: But I like doing, you know, creative things that just pop up into my brain. 01:04.359 --> 01:06.321 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the improviser and writer half of me. 01:06.662 --> 01:10.045 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of how Dungeons and Cabins came about. 01:10.546 --> 01:11.567 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been playing 01:11.547 --> 01:20.798 [SPEAKER_01]: D&D for maybe pushing six years now, which some people would say is a lot in some people, wouldn't, and I also think that time, you know, doesn't totally matter a whole lot. 01:21.199 --> 01:24.683 [SPEAKER_01]: But I had the idea of, what if we had a summer camp where you could play D&D? 01:25.004 --> 01:28.027 [SPEAKER_01]: But what if what you did at camp affected what happens in your game? 01:28.568 --> 01:30.631 [SPEAKER_01]: Archery is such a typical summer camp thing. 01:30.731 --> 01:32.453 [SPEAKER_01]: What if that affected your stats? 01:32.653 --> 01:35.697 [SPEAKER_01]: What if that made you more competitive and brought you together at the team? 01:35.797 --> 01:40.643 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're kind of now immersing yourself into these two worlds completely headfirst. 01:40.623 --> 01:45.966 [SPEAKER_01]: And I said on it for a while, and my friend was like, we know you're gonna do that, and I was like, okay fine. 01:45.986 --> 01:46.127 [SPEAKER_01]: Just, 01:46.613 --> 01:59.104 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to commit to it without fully knowing the full extent of starting a business and thank goodness I didn't because I don't know if it would have ever gotten off the ground and now it exists and it is so fun. 01:59.464 --> 02:05.810 [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds about right and having been to this last year for the 2025 season of Dungeons and Capits. 02:05.910 --> 02:15.658 [SPEAKER_00]: It was an absolute blast and the fusion of mountainside sleepaway camp activities with 02:15.638 --> 02:30.188 [SPEAKER_00]: when you're putting something like that together, and with that particular fusion and combination of things, how much does that factor into planning the actual, like, at the table campaign integrating those kinds of activities? 02:30.455 --> 02:32.558 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, not a whole lot. 02:32.918 --> 02:34.460 [SPEAKER_01]: The story is king or queen. 02:34.640 --> 02:36.482 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to make sure that it shines through. 02:36.523 --> 02:41.729 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I find ways to incorporate the camp elements into that main storyline. 02:41.749 --> 02:45.614 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to sacrifice story bits to do an archery gag, you know. 02:45.634 --> 02:50.580 [SPEAKER_01]: And because we have that freedom, what happens at camp is really flexible. 02:50.640 --> 02:53.824 [SPEAKER_01]: And we can be really creative with how we tie that into the story and win. 02:54.325 --> 02:58.690 [SPEAKER_01]: And it is not to say it doesn't affect it at all, because we're doing time tables. 02:58.670 --> 03:14.468 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, breakfast is when breakfast is lunch is when lunch is like there are certain things that we just can't move either for practicality reasons or because we would never get away from the table we have to have time tables and so that 100% affects the story line like the story beats. 03:14.448 --> 03:19.356 [SPEAKER_01]: And then when those camp activities happen, you know, if we're at summer camp, we want to be outside during the day. 03:19.817 --> 03:27.209 [SPEAKER_01]: So if we're going to incorporate these other activity elements, we know roughly when in the storyline, they'll come into play. 03:27.269 --> 03:32.337 [SPEAKER_01]: And so they're not the first thought, but they are definitely in the planning of the story. 03:32.377 --> 03:34.380 [SPEAKER_01]: But storyline comes first. 03:34.529 --> 03:43.458 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes total sense, and especially I imagine the venue itself also factors in quite a lot in how everything was able to be incorporated. 03:43.538 --> 03:50.004 [SPEAKER_00]: Like for this particular year for instance was at Pally Retreat, and we were not the only group there at the time. 03:50.024 --> 03:52.186 [SPEAKER_00]: We were sharing the space with several other groups. 03:52.767 --> 04:04.418 [SPEAKER_00]: So I imagine you were quite a bit dependent on the timetable provided to you by the venue for what was available when to try to work around that and get as much of 04:04.398 --> 04:06.696 [SPEAKER_00]: What you envisioned as possible? 04:06.727 --> 04:09.470 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Pali has been a really great partner for us. 04:09.670 --> 04:13.855 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a huge, I mean, I don't know if you've explored all of it, but that site is huge. 04:14.376 --> 04:15.377 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty big. 04:15.657 --> 04:18.080 [SPEAKER_01]: We've actually never had a conflict event-wise. 04:18.761 --> 04:28.032 [SPEAKER_01]: If we want to do archery, I mean, there are so many places to do archery there, or to do it like they're always able to accommodate us when we want to do stuff, but you're right, for instance, things like lunch. 04:28.672 --> 04:31.455 [SPEAKER_01]: That's their kitchens and their chefs and they're telling us when we can eat. 04:31.556 --> 04:36.261 [SPEAKER_01]: So there are things that they have planned in place 04:36.713 --> 04:58.688 [SPEAKER_00]: stepping aside from the table for a second to like the actual logistical structuring of a business venture like this, what kind of aspects did you have in mind from the outset that were important to you to get right and what stuff kind of came up as a surprise that you hadn't anticipated in the process of forming the business plan for it and actually putting the rubber to the road for it. 04:58.668 --> 05:15.411 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is such a funny question because the initial vision for it was the full blown like I want what you do it camp to effects would happen I want you to go and find magic items on a hiking trail that are going to affect you in the game like all of that was part of the initial plan. 05:15.610 --> 05:20.597 [SPEAKER_01]: And because of that, people who know me well know this about me, I need to every detail to be right. 05:20.857 --> 05:22.640 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a typo on one of the cards. 05:23.401 --> 05:24.983 [SPEAKER_01]: And for the next weekend it was fixed. 05:25.063 --> 05:28.008 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't have that. 05:28.028 --> 05:33.876 [SPEAKER_01]: That's, I saw it and I was like, is there a way that I can fix this now at camp before opening ceremonies? 05:33.936 --> 05:41.146 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I am looking at every detail of the shirts for this year, were printed, I will say, wrong. 05:41.587 --> 05:42.809 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, were they printed to specs? 05:43.069 --> 05:43.710 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 05:43.690 --> 05:44.431 [SPEAKER_01]: Did I hate them? 05:44.771 --> 05:52.941 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they were printed digitally and I was like this must be screen-printed because last year was I I want the screen print quality that that's what I got last year. 05:52.981 --> 05:55.864 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why it print different this year and I was like I need a reorder. 05:56.445 --> 05:59.668 [SPEAKER_01]: It has to be right because I want I mean it doesn't have no. 05:59.728 --> 06:05.395 [SPEAKER_01]: But that part of that is not surprising to me about how neurotic I was about every detail. 06:05.375 --> 06:09.941 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of the things that surprised me were like, you know, I'm putting parties together of people who don't know each other. 06:10.561 --> 06:20.454 [SPEAKER_01]: Some people come in pairs, a lot of people come alone, a lot of people fly across the country to meet friends for the first time and have a summer camp experience and that is exactly what I want to give them. 06:20.554 --> 06:23.758 [SPEAKER_01]: I want them to create memories that will last for a lifetime. 06:23.798 --> 06:27.523 [SPEAKER_01]: I want them to have a full campaign packed into a weekend. 06:27.943 --> 06:29.145 [SPEAKER_01]: I want them to create these memories. 06:29.185 --> 06:31.888 [SPEAKER_01]: I like a lot of our campers didn't go to summer camp. 06:31.868 --> 06:34.512 [SPEAKER_01]: And I want them to walk away going, oh, I get it now. 06:35.154 --> 06:36.275 [SPEAKER_01]: I get what people love camp. 06:36.316 --> 06:37.898 [SPEAKER_01]: I get why they go back every year. 06:37.958 --> 06:44.850 [SPEAKER_01]: And that aspect, I'd say, like, I try to plan for it as much as I can, but I just don't know everyone I'm placing. 06:44.910 --> 06:46.353 [SPEAKER_01]: So I ask questions at registration. 06:46.393 --> 06:47.475 [SPEAKER_01]: I say, what's your playstyle? 06:47.495 --> 06:48.496 [SPEAKER_01]: What is your experience? 06:49.037 --> 06:53.505 [SPEAKER_01]: And depending on what they tell me, I try to fit people together the best I can. 06:53.525 --> 06:57.792 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I would say that leads to like, what surprises me the most is, 06:57.772 --> 07:00.259 [SPEAKER_01]: how well these parties click. 07:00.279 --> 07:03.347 [SPEAKER_01]: They're so much gel that happens. 07:03.448 --> 07:06.235 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it feels like the sand party was meant to be together. 07:06.275 --> 07:07.759 [SPEAKER_01]: The fire party was meant to be together. 07:07.779 --> 07:12.793 [SPEAKER_01]: There's just so much community that forms instantly these like instant camp. 07:12.773 --> 07:16.058 [SPEAKER_01]: bonds, and that is the ultimate goal, right? 07:16.078 --> 07:20.224 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like creating this community, games are being played in between camp. 07:20.244 --> 07:22.046 [SPEAKER_01]: There's meetups happening in between camp. 07:22.427 --> 07:35.546 [SPEAKER_01]: That I don't think I necessarily expected or planned for, and that is like, my North Star has shifted to, lifetime memories with these people we see every year with this community that we've, that we're growing together. 07:35.626 --> 07:37.549 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is such an us thing. 07:37.529 --> 07:38.530 [SPEAKER_00]: That's fantastic. 07:38.550 --> 07:44.577 [SPEAKER_00]: And with it being so early on in its life cycle, uh, this was only the second year of you're doing this. 07:44.717 --> 07:45.438 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I correct in that? 07:45.698 --> 07:46.319 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're correct. 07:46.339 --> 07:48.741 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we had in, we expanded this year. 07:48.761 --> 07:49.562 [SPEAKER_01]: We had two weekends. 07:49.642 --> 07:53.446 [SPEAKER_01]: And so in the first weekend, we had about a third of our year one campers return. 07:53.787 --> 08:00.634 [SPEAKER_01]: There was some returning campers and they were showing the new campers the way and like it was like exactly that summer camp feeling of like, oh my god, my friends. 08:00.715 --> 08:01.557 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we're back. 08:01.597 --> 08:03.301 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it was very cool. 08:03.342 --> 08:05.748 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm really excited for that feeling again next year. 08:05.788 --> 08:06.349 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 08:06.570 --> 08:15.853 [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't mind my asking what sorts of logistical plans do you have in place for future years as you've learned from the first year or two, what adjustments are you make? 08:15.873 --> 08:18.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have plans to expand out to have? 08:18.299 --> 08:19.581 [SPEAKER_00]: more weeks of it. 08:19.721 --> 08:22.526 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you planning on having like bigger parties? 08:23.207 --> 08:36.510 [SPEAKER_00]: It felt to me like the amount of people that we had was kind of exactly the right group, which for our group, it was six parties of six players with ADM for each party and then a few assistant counselors, which you call NPCs. 08:36.490 --> 08:39.197 [SPEAKER_01]: And they call themselves that proudly too, for the record. 08:39.358 --> 08:40.421 [SPEAKER_01]: They do like that. 08:41.544 --> 08:44.753 [SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree, actually, I think that this number is the sweet spot. 08:45.254 --> 08:47.982 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just enough that you feel like, you know, we're at camp. 08:48.002 --> 08:52.474 [SPEAKER_01]: There's so many people here, but it's not enough that you can't learn everybody's name by the end of it. 08:52.454 --> 08:54.898 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, six parties of six feels really good. 08:55.159 --> 08:56.681 [SPEAKER_01]: It's expanded a little bit from last year. 08:56.721 --> 08:59.926 [SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, what we did this time was expand a weekend. 08:59.946 --> 09:05.015 [SPEAKER_01]: That's one way to do it where we just kind of keep expanding weekends, but all of us DMs have other jobs. 09:05.536 --> 09:08.801 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, an ultimate goal would be to expand locations. 09:09.082 --> 09:09.663 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 09:09.683 --> 09:10.624 [SPEAKER_01]: So many west coasters. 09:10.644 --> 09:14.691 [SPEAKER_01]: We have so many Pacific Northwesters, Pacific Northwesterners. 09:14.811 --> 09:15.913 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Mr. Sible West. 09:15.893 --> 09:28.042 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, and we can one, we had a few Australians, so there's something to be said for maybe expanding to other parts of the country because I think that, you know, summer camps I've been all over the place and I think that there's space for it. 09:28.082 --> 09:32.232 [SPEAKER_01]: So in an ideal world, I would love to expand geographically. 09:32.414 --> 09:33.536 [SPEAKER_00]: that would be very cool to see. 09:33.616 --> 09:36.360 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's a huge ask. 09:37.301 --> 09:43.630 [SPEAKER_00]: But I very much admire the scope of what it is that you're doing and all of the thoughtfulness that goes into it. 09:43.830 --> 09:53.304 [SPEAKER_00]: I similarly am an extremely particular person when it comes to my projects and the events that I put on and things that I put together. 09:53.364 --> 09:58.051 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot about DNC that I really admire. 09:58.111 --> 10:01.155 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're 10:01.135 --> 10:09.084 [SPEAKER_00]: for those disparate groups that are running simultaneously doing sort of a West marches style campaign. 10:09.144 --> 10:12.488 [SPEAKER_00]: What experience were you bringing and pulling from? 10:12.528 --> 10:14.410 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you done stuff like that at conventions? 10:14.551 --> 10:18.816 [SPEAKER_00]: Were you pulling from the wisdom of the other GMs that you were involving? 10:18.856 --> 10:26.164 [SPEAKER_00]: What kind of things goes into planning something at that scale for that like disparate of parties? 10:26.414 --> 10:27.375 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting. 10:27.415 --> 10:31.720 [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that only run a couple times before year one. 10:31.740 --> 10:33.822 [SPEAKER_01]: And actually, it's an epic. 10:33.842 --> 10:36.525 [SPEAKER_01]: West March is one thing, but technically this is an epic. 10:36.545 --> 10:41.331 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a multi-table top event where what happens at your table affects what happens at other tables. 10:41.551 --> 10:45.155 [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of the time these epics are huge raids. 10:45.175 --> 10:46.396 [SPEAKER_01]: You're all rating a castle. 10:46.416 --> 10:50.341 [SPEAKER_01]: And this set of tables over here is going into the front and this side is scaling the walls. 10:50.381 --> 10:53.004 [SPEAKER_01]: And the other side is going under the mode, I don't know. 10:53.024 --> 10:56.067 [SPEAKER_01]: But they're all kind of doing something 10:56.047 --> 10:58.833 [SPEAKER_01]: I would take typically in a convention or a game store setting. 10:58.853 --> 11:02.080 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I've been running games with West Coast Adventures Guild. 11:02.301 --> 11:04.345 [SPEAKER_01]: We run at Comic-Con and WonderCon. 11:04.405 --> 11:07.612 [SPEAKER_01]: They run at a lot of other places, but I run places I can drive to. 11:08.093 --> 11:13.144 [SPEAKER_01]: And at the end of those nights on Friday nights and Saturday nights, playing on which ones, they run huge ethics. 11:13.124 --> 11:16.028 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was my first real experience with them. 11:16.048 --> 11:18.892 [SPEAKER_01]: And so for a year one, I was like, I know that's what I wanted to be. 11:18.972 --> 11:20.874 [SPEAKER_01]: I know I want all the tables to affect all the tables. 11:20.934 --> 11:23.938 [SPEAKER_01]: I know this is an epic, which, you know, who named it. 11:24.039 --> 11:26.762 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but it is kind of a very confusing term. 11:26.802 --> 11:28.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we all want to have a big campaign. 11:28.725 --> 11:32.590 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, but this is slightly different where I describe it as all the parties. 11:32.630 --> 11:34.633 [SPEAKER_01]: We're starting at different corners of the map. 11:34.653 --> 11:37.056 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're all working our way inward toward 11:37.036 --> 11:40.942 [SPEAKER_01]: that one final goal, that big finale finish. 11:41.503 --> 11:45.629 [SPEAKER_01]: And year one, I had a vision for certain epic style mechanics I wanted. 11:45.790 --> 11:50.737 [SPEAKER_01]: I know I want some DM shifting because I want things that you can't do at your home game. 11:51.118 --> 11:55.044 [SPEAKER_01]: We're all here together in the same room playing the same game. 11:55.064 --> 11:57.588 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got to take advantage of that while we're here. 11:57.628 --> 12:02.335 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I had things in mind I wanted and then I was talking to James Hake and I was like, 12:02.315 --> 12:08.428 [SPEAKER_01]: Bear with me, this is gonna sound crazy, but this is what I want to happen and they're like, okay, okay, hold on. 12:09.050 --> 12:11.675 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have a ton of experience with that specifically. 12:11.735 --> 12:13.860 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's call Sean Merwin and I was like 12:15.595 --> 12:18.158 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's like, right to these things. 12:18.319 --> 12:21.082 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I got a couple of his epics and I got a couple epics. 12:21.162 --> 12:24.567 [SPEAKER_01]: I ran one from Will Doyle this year at Comic-Con. 12:25.208 --> 12:30.054 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like taking inspiration from everywhere can, because epics mechanics are different than home game mechanics. 12:30.134 --> 12:31.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it is table-to-table. 12:32.037 --> 12:36.162 [SPEAKER_01]: There's situations where players might leave your table and go to another table. 12:36.523 --> 12:38.866 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it's learning a lot of new things. 12:39.547 --> 12:45.535 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, taking what you know and extrapolating a little bit. 12:45.515 --> 12:46.376 [SPEAKER_01]: a lot of chance. 12:47.118 --> 12:52.387 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a pretty massive undertaking as far as like what the scale of the campaign was. 12:52.727 --> 13:03.926 [SPEAKER_00]: It was broken onto five sessions structurally with the last two being everybody coming together for a big, what really felt like an MMORPG raid like you said. 13:03.946 --> 13:08.434 [SPEAKER_00]: And I loved how experimental it was with 13:08.414 --> 13:10.796 [SPEAKER_00]: a lot of the things like the rotating GMs. 13:10.836 --> 13:12.418 [SPEAKER_00]: That was a huge highlight for me. 13:12.458 --> 13:20.144 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it was very cool being able to get an insight into, oh, this must be what this table's experience was like this week. 13:20.164 --> 13:24.748 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got kind of a window into this table played with more of this style. 13:24.788 --> 13:27.110 [SPEAKER_00]: This table had these sensibilities. 13:27.150 --> 13:36.919 [SPEAKER_00]: And so getting a little taste of how everybody was approaching 13:36.899 --> 13:46.200 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's awesome trying to see, I couldn't help but think the whole time about the logistics of throwing something together like that. 13:46.581 --> 13:52.495 [SPEAKER_00]: So in the like inter-table communication to get this epic style campaign, 13:52.475 --> 13:59.022 [SPEAKER_00]: What are some of the behind the scenes bits and pieces for how that's possible in sharing information? 13:59.403 --> 14:03.627 [SPEAKER_00]: At what point do the other GMs get involved with the story structure? 14:04.048 --> 14:15.320 [SPEAKER_00]: Were they brought in early on and contributed to the wider scope of things for they brought in fairly late and just kind of running and improvising with the punches and you adjusting in real time? 14:15.881 --> 14:21.587 [SPEAKER_00]: Where does everybody else factor into that and how does that like table-to-table communication work? 14:21.955 --> 14:22.957 [SPEAKER_01]: That's an interesting question. 14:23.057 --> 14:30.193 [SPEAKER_01]: So last year, I wrote it all down, so everybody would have a very clear blueprint of exactly what we're doing and exactly win. 14:30.273 --> 14:33.440 [SPEAKER_01]: And every DMI have one, I trust implicitly. 14:33.480 --> 14:35.725 [SPEAKER_01]: They're all unbelievable DMs. 14:36.226 --> 14:39.373 [SPEAKER_01]: We always, when we're talking about the story, we always describe it as a house. 14:39.623 --> 14:48.577 [SPEAKER_01]: and they can change the wallpaper, they can paint the walls, they can break a table, that's totally fine, they can do whatever they want in their rooms, they know which pillars are load-bearing. 14:49.038 --> 14:53.485 [SPEAKER_01]: There are certain things like, hey, don't break a hole in an outside wall, you know what I mean? 14:53.525 --> 14:56.069 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, there are certain things that could break the game. 14:56.129 --> 15:04.602 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know if they can really break the game, but they have a lot of freedom within the structure and the story we've provided them, like we're handing them, you know, a PDF mod. 15:04.582 --> 15:08.590 [SPEAKER_01]: But this year was a little different, this year I went to James and I said, this is my vision. 15:08.610 --> 15:22.236 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to start here and I wanted to end here and I want some of these mechanics in the end and I have these like this goal in mind for the six parties to do and then I worked with them to kind of fill in the blanks what what kind of wood are we using in this house. 15:22.216 --> 15:38.335 [SPEAKER_01]: How are we feeling in the foundation here and and they took part of it and I took part of it and we kind of wrote things and came together and said, okay, well, this room needs to match this room because of these reasons and so kind of making those pieces string together and then we brought it to the other DMs and said, all right, this is the big vision and 15:38.315 --> 15:54.737 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a big DM meeting because I think it's easier to like me running at conventions I might be running five games in a weekend not five sessions I mean five different games and it's four sessions a day and it's a lot of information to take in and I find it used just tell me 15:54.717 --> 15:56.701 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me out loud like, what is the beginning? 15:56.721 --> 15:57.042 [SPEAKER_01]: What is the end? 15:57.062 --> 15:58.665 [SPEAKER_01]: What is the kind of overarching story arc? 15:58.765 --> 16:00.408 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I can go, oh, got it. 16:00.709 --> 16:03.975 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so much easier to put those shoes on and to go, just walk with them. 16:04.476 --> 16:08.525 [SPEAKER_01]: And these damn, so we kind of, we have a big damn meeting and we talk about, what is the storyline? 16:08.545 --> 16:09.446 [SPEAKER_01]: What is everyone's part? 16:09.506 --> 16:12.172 [SPEAKER_01]: And they ask questions and we go, oh, actually, that's a great idea. 16:12.232 --> 16:13.074 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, cool, cool. 16:13.454 --> 16:14.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's add that somewhere and they get them all. 16:15.037 --> 16:16.320 [SPEAKER_01]: And then again, like, 16:16.300 --> 16:18.646 [SPEAKER_01]: They are going to paint the room how they want. 16:18.666 --> 16:20.811 [SPEAKER_01]: They can interior decorate how they want. 16:21.032 --> 16:24.280 [SPEAKER_01]: They can break the tables and move things around how they want to. 16:24.300 --> 16:27.909 [SPEAKER_01]: So everybody definitely like their fingerprints are all over there. 16:28.290 --> 16:32.942 [SPEAKER_01]: Store lines in their parts, but it is largely the DNC vision that they are bringing to life. 16:32.922 --> 16:40.451 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes a lot of sense, and especially with something this intricate and involved, that there would need to be a lot of structure and advance. 16:40.471 --> 16:46.419 [SPEAKER_00]: And so much a subject to change, not even necessarily just GM to GM, but table to table. 16:46.499 --> 16:49.463 [SPEAKER_01]: And to that point, yeah, we want campers to talk to each other. 16:49.503 --> 16:52.426 [SPEAKER_01]: We want them to share what happened in their sessions. 16:52.507 --> 16:58.474 [SPEAKER_01]: And so to that point, we do hide everybody's adventure in other people's adventures. 16:58.454 --> 17:03.199 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, for instance, year one, we, her campers were like, oh, yeah, did you find the girl she was kidnapped? 17:03.219 --> 17:05.402 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, we didn't, no, we didn't have a girl. 17:05.722 --> 17:08.565 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we had to go deal with these haggs in this backyard. 17:08.585 --> 17:13.450 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, oh, yeah, no, our girl was like having nightmares and our parents were having nightmares and then she got kidnapped. 17:13.570 --> 17:15.733 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the party was like, wait, nightmares. 17:16.053 --> 17:18.836 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, our head, do you think it was a night hack that took her? 17:18.856 --> 17:24.022 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, taking pieces from each other's story and putting them together and, we're like, yes, yes. 17:24.182 --> 17:25.103 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's why, like, 17:25.083 --> 17:34.821 [SPEAKER_01]: So far, we've been keeping a story to the chest so that we can plant each other's seeds in the other story so that they can talk and then conspire and put things together on the road. 17:34.861 --> 17:36.484 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is kind of the ultimate goal. 17:36.524 --> 17:39.008 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yes, talk, talk to each other organically. 17:39.068 --> 17:39.970 [SPEAKER_01]: At summer camp. 17:40.203 --> 17:45.913 [SPEAKER_00]: That was a very fun aspect of the campaign and the weak and structure of the event. 17:46.314 --> 17:48.818 [SPEAKER_00]: It was a lot of fun to kind of piece together. 17:48.838 --> 17:52.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this table was going on a rescue mission for this NPC. 17:52.805 --> 17:55.009 [SPEAKER_00]: This table was going after this artifact. 17:55.309 --> 17:58.455 [SPEAKER_00]: This table was going after an information finding. 17:58.675 --> 18:02.802 [SPEAKER_00]: Then like to piece out different aspects of this larger hole, 18:02.782 --> 18:25.077 [SPEAKER_00]: I know there was a little bit of like hesitation at first for like okay what should we and shouldn't we share but for me as soon as the cork was often everybody was like freely info dumping about their unique sessions that was some of the most fun I had in interacting with the other groups and there was so much interesting 18:25.057 --> 18:26.900 [SPEAKER_00]: cross-party collaboration. 18:26.960 --> 18:31.506 [SPEAKER_00]: I know to bring our week in particular to highlight a couple of specific incidents. 18:31.886 --> 18:49.090 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a mechanic that was part of the camp thing of making friendship bracelets, where you could message cantrip one bracelet to another and a couple of parties have the idea of if we mass produce these and have one person from each party have them. 18:49.070 --> 19:01.429 [SPEAKER_00]: then we can all interconnectedly have like a whisper network where we can signal a message each other throughout the game, table the table, and share as a collective everything that was happening. 19:01.890 --> 19:16.613 [SPEAKER_00]: And there was a lot of opportunities in the camp events for getting magic items and getting certain buffs that there was some fun collaboration for figuring out how to share and bring like the larger group collective to a whole, 19:16.593 --> 19:26.986 [SPEAKER_00]: in terms of the balance of party identity versus camp identity, where do you feel the optimal balance of that should lie? 19:27.006 --> 19:42.685 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it was kind of fun having the unique party identity and growing closer as a tight knit unit there, but it was also an absolute blast kind of blurring and melding the party lines and doing that sort of collaboration with the other groups involved. 19:42.732 --> 19:44.041 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting. 19:44.262 --> 19:49.013 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, you are in a party, but you're also part of the Torspears Guild. 19:49.162 --> 20:00.052 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like you go back to the guild at night or whenever the story kind of allowed and you would share this information actually you would have your good master share with you what she's learned from other parties. 20:00.813 --> 20:07.039 [SPEAKER_01]: You are a part of camp, you know, this is some or camp all the returning campers from last year got shifted party wise. 20:07.660 --> 20:15.287 [SPEAKER_01]: They are collecting their fire snow sand ocean gauntlet, you know, like they're going to collect all the things and so. 20:15.267 --> 20:39.537 [SPEAKER_01]: I really want you to have your party pride we're doing the color wars and you're competing with your party, but you know the bigger picture like you can you also take a step back and you know relate to the bigger group because yeah those kind of things that are designed on purpose the BFF bracelets that let you talk to other people and I remember people discording me on the side and they're like hey can we do this in between parties and I was like that's up to you. 20:39.517 --> 21:08.089 [SPEAKER_00]: you want to go go go far go try at least like what a joy when when people are like making friends outside of their party you guys had I think you had the um party party yeah there's um all of the bars across all of the different parties got together to try to do a big gild wide barnic inspiration performance for everyone for the finale and that was very sweet and it was a really fun idea and I 21:08.069 --> 21:14.816 [SPEAKER_00]: I tend to enjoy collaboration and cooperation more than I do competition. 21:15.256 --> 21:19.921 [SPEAKER_00]: So for me personally, stuff like that really is a treat to see when it happens. 21:20.341 --> 21:24.826 [SPEAKER_01]: One hundred percent, like we keep the party versus party in real life. 21:24.846 --> 21:30.131 [SPEAKER_01]: It's tug of war in real life, but in the game, like collaboration is king. 21:30.492 --> 21:34.836 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even like, I played checkers with my husband at the day and got mad because I was like, 21:34.816 --> 21:44.269 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're competitive and you lose, it's not a bunch of fun, so I try to seek out collaborative games because more brains are more fun than one. 21:44.418 --> 21:45.219 [SPEAKER_00]: absolutely. 21:45.259 --> 21:56.756 [SPEAKER_00]: To that end, in terms of the, like, outside of camp games, I want to know if camp has shaped how you approach the table in general. 21:57.056 --> 22:07.972 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you learned anything from the experience of running Dungeons & Cabins that has shaped and changed how you approach home games or convention games and vice versa. 22:08.012 --> 22:14.121 [SPEAKER_00]: Are there any unique experiences that you've brought to Dungeons & Cabins 22:14.101 --> 22:22.059 [SPEAKER_00]: your previous tabletop experience or your improv work or your writing work that is like a unique lens that you funneled things through. 22:22.119 --> 22:27.150 [SPEAKER_00]: So like to what extent has your life impacted camp and camp impacted your life? 22:28.112 --> 22:33.544 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say my life impacts camp a lot more than camp impacts my life. 22:34.351 --> 22:38.519 [SPEAKER_01]: When you're playing a home game, I feel like that is the tip top, you know. 22:38.559 --> 22:47.978 [SPEAKER_01]: If my home game's laid last a long time and so you're with people that you've known for so long and you have inside jokes and you're the character so well and you know the role play moments are gonna be so sweet. 22:48.439 --> 22:52.748 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is actually what I try to bring into my convention games or into 22:52.728 --> 22:53.129 [SPEAKER_01]: camp. 22:53.489 --> 22:58.716 [SPEAKER_01]: It's my home game that's influencing my camp game and camp we only have a couple days to become best friends. 22:59.236 --> 23:01.319 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to know everybody's character inside it out. 23:01.459 --> 23:02.661 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to know what's going to hurt them. 23:02.881 --> 23:04.183 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to know what they're looking for. 23:04.203 --> 23:07.087 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to know what's going to make them feel like heroes at the end of this thing. 23:07.547 --> 23:12.053 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to know the little things I do at home that I can bring to make it feel. 23:12.033 --> 23:14.996 [SPEAKER_01]: special and memorable and not just like a convention game. 23:15.016 --> 23:17.198 [SPEAKER_01]: Like some convention games, it's it's a quick little thing. 23:17.258 --> 23:29.270 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes they're a little longer and you could have these really incredible games like inventive of people you've just met that's like my north star I think and I think a lot of that is role play. 23:29.290 --> 23:34.796 [SPEAKER_01]: I recently actually this year I went to gencon and ran the Marvel multi first game for the first time. 23:34.836 --> 23:39.340 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean for the first time at a convention and I loved it. 23:39.775 --> 24:08.955 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just this instant, like, you know the Marvel characters and so you know the relationships they have with each other and you start off the game feeling like a party that's been together forever and those are the games that's like it feels so good if you're so rewarding at the end of I mean even during it, like it's just so natural and so all of these like my improv like that I teach in profit at campus teaching for that work it's just such a skill that you can bring everywhere to make. 24:08.935 --> 24:10.758 [SPEAKER_01]: every situation better. 24:11.059 --> 24:14.726 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that sounds crazy and dramatic, but I truly believe it's real. 24:15.247 --> 24:23.582 [SPEAKER_01]: We used to play volleyball with my comedy theater, and it makes you a better volleyball player, like beats volleyball because, yeah, that makes sense. 24:23.842 --> 24:27.990 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you're, if you're hesitating for the joke, you've, you've missed your timing. 24:27.970 --> 24:30.093 [SPEAKER_01]: if you hesitate for the ball, yeah it's gone. 24:30.974 --> 24:36.280 [SPEAKER_01]: And so these principles are the same and so all everything I do in life affects camp for sure. 24:36.320 --> 24:40.846 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would say even vice versa, like going back to a pickle party or a mayonnaise party. 24:41.707 --> 24:45.492 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, a camp we have a very strong opening and we have a very strong closing. 24:45.552 --> 24:49.196 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there are certain elements from camp that I bring into hosting now. 24:49.236 --> 24:51.559 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what is the intention of bringing people over? 24:52.000 --> 24:53.161 [SPEAKER_01]: How do I want them to feel? 24:53.281 --> 24:56.425 [SPEAKER_01]: How do I start the night so that everyone's in the same headspace? 24:56.405 --> 25:11.528 [SPEAKER_01]: Is there kind of a finale or does it just fizzle out and you leave like, oh, okay, I guess I guess getting late everyone should get out now like I want it to be intentional and so camp does affect my life But I would say really I'm trying to bring that life feeling to camp 25:11.845 --> 25:15.974 [SPEAKER_00]: There's like three or four different things that I want to unpack from that answer there. 25:17.277 --> 25:28.281 [SPEAKER_00]: So going kind of in reverse order, starting with the importance of improv, that is something that is very important to me specifically in my philosophy with the table and that I really try to bring to everything. 25:28.422 --> 25:31.288 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the lessons learned from 25:31.268 --> 25:56.162 [SPEAKER_00]: doing improv, the emphasis on taking risks, making bold swings, not being afraid of failure, and improv generally making you a better listener, I think, is such a critical crucial aspect, not just in TTRPGs, but like you've said in life as a skill that really affects everything, you do like corporate improv workshops, correct? 25:56.442 --> 25:57.284 [SPEAKER_01]: I do. 25:57.524 --> 25:57.664 [UNKNOWN]: Uh-huh. 25:57.644 --> 26:27.651 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, a couple of the things that are so important and probably like you kind of touched on it is like um the fear failure and an improv there's no concept of failure you can't say you messed up and it's seen because it doesn't make sense to say that it's such a gift when you say something like air quote wrong because you would have never gotten there otherwise like oh what a gift you've given us by mis labeling this thing and now well who are you now what do you mean what are you have you been lying to me the whole time are you two different people like it just kind of creates if that's true what else is true. 26:27.631 --> 26:41.239 [SPEAKER_00]: the element of surprise that that brings is always a delight and it's such a great mindset to approach any kind of problem solving endeavor in that way. 26:41.280 --> 26:43.624 [SPEAKER_00]: Other sorts of things that I want to unpack a little bit too. 26:43.665 --> 26:44.847 [SPEAKER_00]: The 26:44.827 --> 26:50.053 [SPEAKER_00]: sort of unique approach that each GM takes to their different tables. 26:50.533 --> 26:55.319 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's part of the secret sauce of what makes an event like that work so well. 26:55.719 --> 27:06.071 [SPEAKER_00]: So with all of your unique experiences influencing how you approach the table, each GM is so varied in their own expertise and skill set in what they bring. 27:06.331 --> 27:12.538 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was part of the delight of getting that small little sampling of the rotating GMs. 27:12.518 --> 27:23.033 [SPEAKER_00]: When bringing these GMs together for this event, how did you assemble and decide upon who to include in your production team? 27:23.133 --> 27:24.395 [SPEAKER_00]: Were you reaching out to them? 27:24.455 --> 27:25.656 [SPEAKER_00]: Were they reaching out to you? 27:26.037 --> 27:27.359 [SPEAKER_00]: Was it a mix of both? 27:27.839 --> 27:29.502 [SPEAKER_00]: How did those connections form? 27:29.522 --> 27:35.370 [SPEAKER_00]: And what is important to you to look for in who you bring to the table as a GM? 27:35.350 --> 27:40.940 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question, and some of my GMs are a funny story, but like a couple of more, we have mutual friends. 27:41.421 --> 27:57.190 [SPEAKER_01]: And so the first year I was going to put in this together, and I needed DMs, and I was in more of a very small community, and I hadn't started, well, I think I had just started running at cons, but I didn't know anyone well enough to ask, and cons GMs are incredible because they're so flexible. 27:57.170 --> 27:59.533 [SPEAKER_01]: and another skill they have are timed tables. 27:59.914 --> 28:07.463 [SPEAKER_01]: In our home games we don't have to make sure that we hit the beats by to a clock or like get to a satisfying ending by to a clock. 28:07.504 --> 28:16.395 [SPEAKER_01]: And even the party may take you on a completely different course that's not scripted and you still need to get to a satisfying ending at to a clock. 28:16.415 --> 28:26.248 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was something that I really look for is one like people with either professional backgrounds who have done this for a long 28:26.228 --> 28:31.278 [SPEAKER_01]: have run times tables and that could be at a call and it could be another event like this. 28:31.298 --> 28:32.540 [SPEAKER_01]: You have your D&D and Castles. 28:32.560 --> 28:33.582 [SPEAKER_01]: There is D&D on it. 28:33.903 --> 28:36.729 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what it's called, but there's a river cruise one now. 28:36.789 --> 28:38.512 [SPEAKER_01]: There's an actual cruise. 28:39.013 --> 28:42.600 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of places that do D&D vacation events. 28:42.580 --> 28:48.587 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that is a nice place that I look to as well as like people I personally know or that I have experienced EM. 28:48.607 --> 28:51.210 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, honestly, two of my DMs, so fun. 28:51.230 --> 28:51.831 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 28:51.851 --> 28:53.533 [SPEAKER_01]: And who are like, my go to regular. 28:53.593 --> 28:55.876 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, they were both random emails. 28:55.936 --> 28:56.657 [SPEAKER_01]: They emailed me. 28:56.677 --> 28:58.939 [SPEAKER_01]: A Liam actually, I think it was like, do you need a photographer? 28:58.959 --> 29:01.122 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, no, I need a DM and he's like, I DM. 29:01.142 --> 29:02.583 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, let me see. 29:02.664 --> 29:03.865 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we kind of like chatted. 29:03.885 --> 29:06.889 [SPEAKER_01]: I chatted with both of them and we talked about their philosophies of the game. 29:06.949 --> 29:08.711 [SPEAKER_01]: And what's important to them in a game? 29:08.751 --> 29:12.435 [SPEAKER_01]: And how do they want 29:12.415 --> 29:39.317 [SPEAKER_01]: because there are some DMs that will not change from prep and that is maybe good at some tables and not good at other tables and that just does not work for me because we just there's a lot of factors that go into a camp weekend and things can happen and our first year it's so funny they were a couple NPCs that were popping in and out of people's adventures and one of our DMs goes, hey by the way we have a discord channel for just the DMs and they're like, hey 29:39.297 --> 29:42.142 [SPEAKER_01]: They killed this one and we're like, okay, note it. 29:42.182 --> 29:46.048 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so she's gone So she won't be appearing any of your stuff anymore. 29:46.088 --> 29:48.852 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't like, you know, it's not gonna break a wall Just broke a table. 29:49.253 --> 30:00.090 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, noted cool moving on like totally fine with us We can manage without her, but those are all things they look for in DMs like the flexibility and you know that the improv chops because these are strangers 30:00.070 --> 30:12.048 [SPEAKER_01]: These are people that, you know, you were only just meeting and becoming friends with, so you need to be comfortable and all of that stuff like off the get going, to throw in another improv principle is making your partner look good. 30:12.549 --> 30:13.771 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is their story. 30:13.811 --> 30:20.982 [SPEAKER_01]: Making sure that you're really highlighting and you're showcasing everyone at the table and, you know, I have one of my players this year was so quiet. 30:20.962 --> 30:22.223 [SPEAKER_01]: literally so quiet. 30:22.243 --> 30:33.856 [SPEAKER_01]: I did really, really use my full ears to hear and sometimes they don't speak up as much either and when you like, you need to spotlight them because when you do, oh my god, the things this person would say were incredible. 30:34.316 --> 30:44.067 [SPEAKER_01]: One of the smartest, most creative players I have ever had at my table and every time I spotlight them, I was like, I just wish that you spoke nonstop. 30:44.047 --> 30:46.774 [SPEAKER_01]: everything you're saying is like it's incredible. 30:46.835 --> 30:52.028 [SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, picking DMs is it's so important because you know, every table is so different. 30:52.049 --> 30:59.007 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I also try to place people with DMs, I think they would like based on the very little I know about them from their registration forms. 30:59.067 --> 31:00.030 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, 31:00.010 --> 31:14.029 [SPEAKER_01]: Every DM has their own style and every DM specializes in different things and some kind of our jack of all trades but some, you know, really, they're that combat DM and they're so good at combat and some are like, please give me silly voices. 31:14.570 --> 31:25.225 [SPEAKER_01]: Please let me do like crazy things and so it's really nice to have DMs that either, you know, have all different skills or can really kind of capture all skills at once. 31:25.205 --> 31:28.891 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the variety in the backgrounds and skill sets. 31:29.031 --> 31:35.462 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's such a good advantage in, like I said, both the specialization and the versatility of it. 31:35.742 --> 31:50.487 [SPEAKER_00]: For something like this, what you're talking about with your shy player makes me think of a thing that I was chatting about in one of my previous interviews with Ty, who is the host and GM of the actual play podcast site character quest. 31:50.948 --> 31:51.769 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a, 31:51.749 --> 32:19.309 [SPEAKER_00]: one player, one GM anthology show and one of the things that he brought up with that was it's fascinating to see how different players respond in different settings and scenarios and a thing that he's found to be true is that a lot of shire or quieter players win put on the spot in that kind of situation when they can't hide behind a larger party will tend to 32:19.289 --> 32:24.676 [SPEAKER_00]: surprise him with how proactive they are with how much they have to say. 32:24.716 --> 32:39.475 [SPEAKER_00]: So giving appropriate set pieces for players like that to shine, especially when compared to more boystris players at the table, it's a real skill that does take a lot to try to hone in on. 32:39.515 --> 32:49.228 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's great that that is such a good focus and that that is such an important thing to look for in the GMs that you get 32:49.208 --> 33:06.087 [SPEAKER_00]: a huge variety of players and with them being strangers, I really admire GM's who run events with unknown tables just because the versatility of who you're going to get is such a curveball that it's always impressive to me. 33:06.421 --> 33:07.663 [SPEAKER_01]: I love my GMs. 33:07.683 --> 33:18.097 [SPEAKER_01]: They're just, they're so talented and I chose my table in the back corner, so I could see everyone because, you know, you see that I'm getting up and they're making these huge gestures and like, oh, I wish I could be at that table right now. 33:18.117 --> 33:19.359 [SPEAKER_01]: They look so fun. 33:19.760 --> 33:29.934 [SPEAKER_01]: And then another thing like, I think this goes without saying, but it really should be said, but it's like, all my DMs also must be more than tolerant, but like loving and accepting of every kind of person. 33:29.954 --> 33:32.057 [SPEAKER_01]: This community is so diverse. 33:32.037 --> 33:33.761 [SPEAKER_01]: And we get a lot of diversity at camp. 33:33.981 --> 33:36.547 [SPEAKER_01]: And without question, it is their community. 33:36.607 --> 33:37.990 [SPEAKER_01]: They, they belong here. 33:38.030 --> 33:38.611 [SPEAKER_01]: They are loved here. 33:38.632 --> 33:39.995 [SPEAKER_01]: They're celebrated and supported here. 33:40.055 --> 33:43.081 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that, of course, is a, it's a given to me. 33:43.101 --> 33:44.605 [SPEAKER_01]: But I know it's not to everybody. 33:44.625 --> 33:46.148 [SPEAKER_01]: So it is important to be said. 33:46.263 --> 33:49.669 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a good point, that really is something that we shouldn't take for granted. 33:49.969 --> 34:08.980 [SPEAKER_00]: It's unfortunate how much hostility still exists in the space, but the fact that more accepting tables do exist and that it's easier to find and access them than it ever has been before really is a testament to how far the hobbies come from being such a niche and fringe thing when it was first on the scene. 34:09.280 --> 34:11.122 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very important thing to get right. 34:11.182 --> 34:14.365 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm glad that that is such a priority. 34:14.425 --> 34:16.728 [SPEAKER_00]: And it really comes across and is felt. 34:17.268 --> 34:32.264 [SPEAKER_00]: The huge range in people that were there of people who had played original first edition D&D in the 80s, people that are brand new to the game, people that have all wide range of experiences. 34:32.304 --> 34:37.549 [SPEAKER_00]: For everybody to kind of come together around this one shared central thing, 34:37.529 --> 34:58.862 [SPEAKER_00]: And with it being so accommodating, I do like that, even though the physical camp aspects of it are a fun component of the game, the fact that you had the accessibility considerations of every event being optional for people to tag in and out of if they either weren't comfortable doing an activity or were not 34:58.842 --> 35:00.627 [SPEAKER_00]: physically able to do so. 35:00.647 --> 35:06.544 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that was a big important thing and with there being a wide variety in the types of events that were happening. 35:06.565 --> 35:09.493 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was very well considered. 35:09.862 --> 35:14.368 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is a huge consideration because we completely get all kinds of people. 35:14.408 --> 35:16.111 [SPEAKER_01]: I know everybody can't run. 35:16.171 --> 35:18.734 [SPEAKER_01]: You just don't really know what's gonna happen before camp. 35:18.894 --> 35:21.658 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I do want those activities to be completely spread out. 35:22.319 --> 35:25.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Some won't be your bag, but some really will. 35:25.544 --> 35:35.177 [SPEAKER_01]: Some random, some, you know, and I will say, I think I said this at camp, but I will give survivor a lot of credit for that because I want a lot of survivor going into this because 35:35.157 --> 35:39.844 [SPEAKER_01]: I think their relays do a good job of spreading out the talent. 35:40.205 --> 35:44.491 [SPEAKER_01]: It 100% does lean more physical and survivor and also a lot of grosser. 35:44.551 --> 35:46.875 [SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have time to take five showers in the middle of the day. 35:46.895 --> 35:47.897 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're not doing mud. 35:48.277 --> 35:50.801 [SPEAKER_01]: But they always have that like puzzle element. 35:50.861 --> 35:59.815 [SPEAKER_01]: They always have something that's more like brain-based, something that's more, you know, rearranging the tiles to make a word and 35:59.795 --> 36:24.368 [SPEAKER_01]: it is very important if we're doing something physical to have something that is not and maybe you know on a puzzle person so there needs to be something that is for you too there there there needs to be something for everybody so that everyone again you kind of feel like a hero in this camp and there also needs to be the things that you're not good at you do need to be challenge in some way you came to some or camp you're already putting yourself out there like now it's time to do it you know 36:24.348 --> 36:30.577 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know when the last time you did a potato sack race was, but you might not have one again, not to sound ominous. 36:30.597 --> 36:32.519 [SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, just like put yourself out there and do it now. 36:32.559 --> 36:34.462 [SPEAKER_01]: We had actually both weekends. 36:34.502 --> 36:38.347 [SPEAKER_01]: We had somebody who was a little scared of the zipline. 36:38.888 --> 36:39.689 [SPEAKER_01]: It's high. 36:39.849 --> 36:40.871 [SPEAKER_01]: Dude, it's like high up there. 36:40.971 --> 36:42.653 [SPEAKER_01]: It goes, ah, I mean, you're harvesting. 36:42.713 --> 36:43.655 [SPEAKER_01]: It's completely safe. 36:43.695 --> 36:48.621 [SPEAKER_01]: But that logic does not really work in these situations when it's a fear and a phobia. 36:48.661 --> 36:52.026 [SPEAKER_01]: And to both of them, I said, okay, just make me a deal. 36:52.040 --> 37:09.998 [SPEAKER_01]: We're like in the the tavern right now or like we're in like the guild hall we're around the table and they've decided they're not doing the zip line and I was like just make me deal come with us for your harness on go to the top and then decide you can turn around you can take your arms back off you don't need to do it I just want you to put the harness on and just just look. 37:09.978 --> 37:11.080 [SPEAKER_01]: Because you don't really know, right? 37:11.120 --> 37:17.233 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you're here to challenge yourself and put yourself out there and and go outside of your comfort zone and you're the only person who can do that for you. 37:17.553 --> 37:18.636 [SPEAKER_01]: No one is going to do it for you. 37:18.736 --> 37:20.820 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to take that step yourself. 37:21.341 --> 37:23.285 [SPEAKER_01]: And so both people put the harness on. 37:23.505 --> 37:24.187 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all I wanted. 37:24.608 --> 37:25.329 [SPEAKER_01]: They put the harness on. 37:25.369 --> 37:29.257 [SPEAKER_01]: They walked up to the top and then one was like, yeah, I can do this. 37:29.277 --> 37:30.720 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go and they did it and it was this. 37:30.700 --> 37:46.752 [SPEAKER_01]: year it was a zipline racer and so we were being scorn you know you could tag out and have some else race for you no big deal at all like it's totally fine well the first person went and won and they were so proud of themselves and they're like and I won and they would have never done this otherwise and the second person 37:46.985 --> 37:49.888 [SPEAKER_01]: It was much harder for them to take that leap. 37:50.268 --> 37:53.331 [SPEAKER_01]: She asked me to push her off because she couldn't, she couldn't lift the beat up. 37:53.351 --> 37:54.533 [SPEAKER_01]: She couldn't take them off the platform. 37:54.973 --> 37:57.275 [SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, push me, do it, push me. 37:57.336 --> 37:58.737 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, all right, are you sure? 37:58.777 --> 37:59.157 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you sure? 37:59.177 --> 38:00.058 [SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, push me. 38:00.599 --> 38:02.701 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, OK, what are we doing this? 38:03.222 --> 38:04.823 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I pushed her. 38:04.843 --> 38:07.146 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was like a very gentle, you know? 38:07.706 --> 38:09.788 [SPEAKER_01]: It was very gently moved her off the platform. 38:10.489 --> 38:13.792 [SPEAKER_01]: And the Zipline spins that I can see her eyes are full of fear. 38:13.832 --> 38:16.435 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh, what have I done? 38:16.415 --> 38:18.978 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it gets to the end and she wins. 38:19.618 --> 38:21.740 [SPEAKER_01]: And oh, my, she's just beaming afterwards. 38:21.760 --> 38:23.142 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like calling her mom. 38:23.162 --> 38:24.603 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like a can't believe I did this. 38:24.623 --> 38:26.485 [SPEAKER_01]: She was like, that was terrifying. 38:26.505 --> 38:27.346 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm never doing it again. 38:27.406 --> 38:28.587 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't believe I did it. 38:28.627 --> 38:30.168 [SPEAKER_01]: Like she was so excited. 38:30.709 --> 38:33.171 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the camp was so excited for her. 38:33.251 --> 38:35.073 [SPEAKER_01]: Like news got around. 38:35.133 --> 38:36.114 [SPEAKER_01]: We know who this is. 38:36.214 --> 38:40.158 [SPEAKER_01]: Like what an incredible moment for her that like going into camp. 38:40.218 --> 38:41.219 [SPEAKER_01]: She knew there was a plan. 38:41.239 --> 38:44.042 [SPEAKER_01]: And she knew she was not going on that thing. 38:44.022 --> 38:46.406 [SPEAKER_01]: I know I was like, oh, what a beautiful moment for her. 38:46.586 --> 38:47.287 [SPEAKER_01]: What a triumph. 38:47.788 --> 38:49.089 [SPEAKER_00]: That's so heartwarming. 38:49.150 --> 38:50.051 [SPEAKER_01]: So nice. 38:50.351 --> 38:53.035 [SPEAKER_00]: And to us, a less extreme extent. 38:53.216 --> 38:57.742 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it was a similar thing for like the feel-day type activities that we were doing. 38:58.163 --> 39:03.951 [SPEAKER_00]: Within my particular party, we were going into that pretty wiped already from how the week had been. 39:03.991 --> 39:05.794 [SPEAKER_00]: And so there was a lot of like, 39:06.162 --> 39:07.464 [SPEAKER_00]: how do we have to do this now? 39:07.484 --> 39:18.019 [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't can we take a nap first and like okay I guess I guess if we have to and then by the end of it the general sense and vibe was okay that was pretty fun. 39:18.179 --> 39:27.732 [SPEAKER_00]: I haven't done something like that since school and it was really fun to be able to like kind of jump back into that that was I had a better time than I anticipated I would. 39:27.830 --> 39:31.956 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's such an adult thing to like, no, I don't know, I don't need it over. 39:31.976 --> 39:36.362 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, past, it's your lizard brain telling you, like, keep yourself safe, don't do it. 39:36.422 --> 39:37.423 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't don't embarrass yourself. 39:37.904 --> 39:48.779 [SPEAKER_01]: And as soon as you just decide to say yes, just say yes and even and commit, like, we know, you know, the DMs and the NPCs, we know, like, people's competitive sides, they turn on. 39:49.280 --> 39:54.647 [SPEAKER_01]: They're gonna do this thing because it's not just doing it to do it what you do at camp effects would happen in the game. 39:54.627 --> 40:01.681 [SPEAKER_01]: you got to get that advantage and people go for it and I'm so glad they do because it really looks so rewarding. 40:01.701 --> 40:15.910 [SPEAKER_00]: That opportunity for people to step outside of their comfort zone is so important and it is such an encouraging thing to see the pride that people take when they can push themselves to do so. 40:15.991 --> 40:17.795 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's so fun to watch. 40:18.256 --> 40:19.518 [SPEAKER_01]: And it, I mean, it's fun to host. 40:20.200 --> 40:21.683 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone was like really egging me on this. 40:21.703 --> 40:25.090 [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, you can hear, you can be, you can be, and I was like, you don't want me to compete. 40:26.052 --> 40:29.278 [SPEAKER_01]: You're right now, how long I've thought about these challenges and my strategies would be. 40:29.298 --> 40:31.182 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, you don't want that. 40:31.685 --> 40:42.516 [SPEAKER_00]: on the topic of being outside of your comfort zone and diving into an unexpected challenge, that's kind of what the entire venture of Dungeons & Cabins was for you from the sound of it. 40:42.817 --> 40:48.062 [SPEAKER_00]: What advice would you give to somebody trying to start a venture like yours? 40:48.723 --> 40:54.449 [SPEAKER_00]: And is there any information you know now that you wish you knew when you started? 40:54.469 --> 40:58.333 [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to sound crazy, but an awesome serity, don't. 40:58.600 --> 41:04.307 [SPEAKER_01]: And I say that so specifically because camp feels like me. 41:04.367 --> 41:06.629 [SPEAKER_01]: This feels exactly like Sammy. 41:07.090 --> 41:09.072 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I smell that in every corner of camp. 41:09.112 --> 41:13.237 [SPEAKER_01]: I see in every part of the adventure and every kind of bracelet that was made. 41:13.257 --> 41:18.123 [SPEAKER_01]: It just to me, this just feels like me expanding into the universe. 41:18.143 --> 41:22.448 [SPEAKER_01]: I have left my body and now like you see kind of the trails leaving. 41:22.428 --> 41:27.715 [SPEAKER_01]: if you do want to do something for can do it, just it needs to be you. 41:27.855 --> 41:29.597 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it needs to be exactly how you would do it. 41:29.657 --> 41:33.803 [SPEAKER_01]: It needs to feel like you needs to come from your soul. 41:33.903 --> 41:37.107 [SPEAKER_01]: It needs to just needs to a reek of of youness. 41:37.147 --> 41:40.872 [SPEAKER_01]: And so whatever that is, do exactly that. 41:41.433 --> 41:47.540 [SPEAKER_01]: And before camp every year, which has only been twice so far, but I'll probably do it every year is I watched the Lego movie. 41:47.961 --> 41:48.722 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you seen that? 41:48.702 --> 41:53.491 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that's an interesting inspiration, but I get exactly what you mean. 41:53.551 --> 41:58.841 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just he couldn't have been the special if he wasn't exactly who he is. 41:59.442 --> 42:03.089 [SPEAKER_01]: He needs to just own be him and that is right. 42:03.349 --> 42:06.475 [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, oh, what if they don't like this? 42:06.455 --> 42:25.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I can only do what I'm going to do and so you can only do what you are going to do and that is how I would approach adventure of doing something how you're going to do it just just be your own version like literally your own version of and it and just do your thing and then just trust yourself. 42:25.928 --> 42:33.800 [SPEAKER_01]: You know you want this thing and you know you're going to do it, so just do it, just trust yourself and do it the way you want to do it, let's doubt more do. 42:33.840 --> 42:51.666 [SPEAKER_00]: That is fantastic advice and that's a common thread that I've found in the interviews that I've done is two of the most important things for doing any kind of creative venture regardless of the scale is sincerity and persistence. 42:51.950 --> 43:01.563 [SPEAKER_01]: 100% passion and tenacity like if this isn't going to light your fire, then find something that does like if you're doing something at a big scale, it is going to take a lot of time. 43:01.664 --> 43:02.465 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to take big time. 43:03.166 --> 43:04.808 [SPEAKER_01]: So make sure that it's worth it for you. 43:05.429 --> 43:06.911 [SPEAKER_01]: For me, camp is worth it. 43:07.091 --> 43:14.802 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the feeling going into camp, the feeling leaving camp, the feeling thinking about camp, it's an irreplaceable warmth. 43:15.136 --> 43:17.039 [SPEAKER_00]: It really is a very unique thing. 43:17.199 --> 43:26.933 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's even among things that you enjoy doing and that you think you want to make adventure, having the passion for what you're doing is so critical. 43:27.394 --> 43:38.730 [SPEAKER_00]: Before I started DN Dark, I spent about a year trying to get a YouTube channel off the ground and just kind of dipping my tone that as a thing of like, I wanna give this a sincere try and effort. 43:38.790 --> 43:41.734 [SPEAKER_00]: This seems like a thing I would enjoy doing 43:41.714 --> 44:04.498 [SPEAKER_00]: Over the course of about a year, I was starting to hit the pressure points of the sacrifices that need to be made to do any kind of creative venture like that, and the passion was kind of leaving me, and I started doing DN Dark Around that time, and it was going to be just a small side venture before I jumped back into focusing on this 44:04.478 --> 44:23.196 [SPEAKER_00]: video series that I was doing and I immediately felt a night and day difference when I started doing the podcast that, oh no, I enjoy doing this so much more than I've enjoyed any aspect of this previous venture and I learned from 44:23.176 --> 44:27.645 [SPEAKER_00]: doing the thing that I enjoy, that I don't have the passion for this. 44:27.705 --> 44:29.528 [SPEAKER_00]: That is needed to sustain this. 44:30.129 --> 44:34.858 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to focus and put my efforts on where I'm getting the rewards. 44:35.159 --> 44:39.507 [SPEAKER_00]: That being said, DN Dark has been a very difficult venture. 44:39.527 --> 44:43.615 [SPEAKER_00]: As of this recording, we have been going for three years. 44:43.595 --> 44:44.136 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 44:44.736 --> 45:03.055 [SPEAKER_00]: That's both a long time and not very much at all, and not all of it has been fun, but it's always been fulfilling and rewarding, and consistently as I've been going through and doing the show, it's never been a doubt in my mind that this show is the thing that I have a passion for doing. 45:03.656 --> 45:12.285 [SPEAKER_00]: So finding something like that is very important, and having that passion can really carry you through the days where, um, 45:12.265 --> 45:22.517 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a Brian David Gilbert quote where he talked about how there's kind of an inherent nonsense in the phrase, do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life. 45:22.977 --> 45:30.786 [SPEAKER_00]: It was in regards to him talking about unraveled where he said, like, yeah, I love everything I do and I've worked some days. 45:32.228 --> 45:35.491 [SPEAKER_00]: The passion has to carry you through the hard parts. 45:35.932 --> 45:40.517 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make 45:40.497 --> 46:05.408 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so relatable so well said yeah exactly it's like trusting your gut what feels right like some things it feels maybe obligatory where you're like I just feel like I'm supposed to do this like for me a long time ago this is so unrelated but it was like running I feel like I'm supposed to run as a former athlete like that's how you stay in shape and it's like no there's like a million things you can do you you don't have to do that thing that's just like really not come to you don't have to do that. 46:05.573 --> 46:20.406 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's I have a lot of respect and admiration for people who have the tenacity to stick through and commit to the ventures that they love and there's similarly like hearing that kind of advice in a different form. 46:20.446 --> 46:33.758 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a video that I saw the other day of somebody bringing up the point that you have less competition than you think you do if you can have the 46:34.227 --> 46:35.812 [SPEAKER_01]: I literally just heard that quote. 46:35.852 --> 46:38.080 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, yeah, like a reen figure. 46:38.100 --> 46:39.063 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I can finish. 46:39.103 --> 46:41.170 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, oh, yeah, like an easier. 46:41.210 --> 46:42.735 [SPEAKER_01]: This is gonna be so much easier. 46:43.070 --> 46:52.261 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because any market that you're in in a creative venture will be flooded, but it will be flooded by people who probably won't go the distance. 46:52.782 --> 47:12.165 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you can stick to it and if you can commit to it and put in the proper passion and effort, the people who aren't willing to do that will fall off bit by bit and the actual competition that you have of people willing to do that is markedly smaller than you would ever think it is. 47:12.466 --> 47:17.274 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and you can narrow that down even more because you're the only one who's going to do it the way you do it. 47:17.674 --> 47:24.485 [SPEAKER_01]: There are thousands of horror movies, but no to our identical unless there's a lawsuit I don't know about, which is actually this. 47:24.505 --> 47:26.849 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, you're the only one who's going to do it, how you do it. 47:26.869 --> 47:33.719 [SPEAKER_01]: So you can do the same type of, I mean, you know, like there are other D&D podcasts, but you're the only person who's going to make it like you do. 47:34.240 --> 47:36.884 [SPEAKER_01]: And so in a sense, you also have no competition. 47:36.965 --> 47:38.507 [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing exactly. 47:38.909 --> 47:40.092 [SPEAKER_01]: what you do. 47:40.112 --> 47:40.794 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 47:40.814 --> 47:44.503 [SPEAKER_00]: With that, that pretty much comes to the end of my questions. 47:44.684 --> 47:55.230 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to make sure before we wrap up, though, are there any other miscellaneous things, any topics, bits of lingering wisdom, anything that you want to make sure it doesn't get laughed on said? 47:55.565 --> 48:01.892 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh man, I think whatever you're doing in tabletop, this is kind of just like for anyone. 48:01.932 --> 48:06.917 [SPEAKER_01]: Think about what type of table you like to be at and then find that table. 48:07.618 --> 48:12.423 [SPEAKER_01]: Not every table is for every person and that is a good thing because that means there's a table just for you. 48:12.483 --> 48:20.492 [SPEAKER_01]: This community is so big and so welcoming that know that there is space for you. 48:20.472 --> 48:22.395 [SPEAKER_00]: phenomenal note to end on. 48:22.455 --> 48:24.879 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you again for sitting down and chatting with me. 48:24.899 --> 48:26.401 [SPEAKER_00]: This has been incredible. 48:27.042 --> 48:34.474 [SPEAKER_00]: As we wrap up, can you remind our listeners one more time where they can find you and information about yourself and dungeons and cabins? 48:35.075 --> 48:36.557 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, 100%. 48:36.537 --> 48:41.866 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you can find me personally on Instagram at Glickety, G-L-I-C-K-I-T-Y. 48:41.886 --> 48:48.076 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll post there about my improv shows and about touches and cabins and just random life stuff. 48:48.476 --> 48:52.983 [SPEAKER_01]: And then Dungeons & Cabins is Dungeons & Cabins on Instagram and dot com. 48:53.665 --> 48:55.508 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say, join our mailing list. 48:55.548 --> 48:57.170 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to check the box. 48:57.190 --> 48:58.733 [SPEAKER_01]: The box is saying, I can email you. 48:58.773 --> 49:00.576 [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't check the box, I cannot email you. 49:00.676 --> 49:01.397 [SPEAKER_01]: So, 49:01.377 --> 49:08.364 [SPEAKER_01]: Sign up for the mailing list, check the box, and you'll be one of the first to find out when the new camp season is, and you will find out for everyone else. 49:09.065 --> 49:10.066 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, excellent. 49:10.126 --> 49:11.247 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you again for all of that. 49:11.408 --> 49:16.273 [SPEAKER_00]: All of those links will be in the description, and thank you all of you for listening. 49:16.893 --> 49:17.774 [SPEAKER_00]: One more time, everybody. 49:18.014 --> 49:20.918 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Danger Dangers, the GM and host of Dien Dark. 49:21.298 --> 49:30.928 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been chatting with Sammy Glicker, the creator of Dungeons and 49:34.773 --> 49:43.809 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Table Talk, created hosted and edited by myself, Danger Dan Jers, with artwork by Jordan Nelson. 49:43.829 --> 49:46.434 [SPEAKER_00]: Our guest this episode was Sammy Glicker. 49:46.454 --> 49:48.377 [SPEAKER_00]: Links to our work can be found in the episode description. 49:48.918 --> 49:55.650 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're interested in being a guest on this show, reach out to us at dndarkpodcast at gmail.com. 49:55.630 --> 49:58.798 [SPEAKER_00]: Our theme song in Outro was created by Jeremy Volucci. 49:58.818 --> 50:02.728 [SPEAKER_00]: Check out more of his works on Instagram at Jeremy Volucci under Score Rec of Time. 50:03.129 --> 50:07.480 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time we have a guest take a seat at the table.