[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to another episode of Shooting the Shit with Literary Agents, Carly Waters, and CC Lyra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where we dissect publishing gossip, discuss book industry trends, and the overall state of the book business.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you'd ever wanted to grab a coffee with two literary agents, grab your mug, and pull up a chair.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hi everybody, so, you know, CC and I are just traveling around the world on these various shooting the shit episodes.
[SPEAKER_04]: CC, you just got back from Ottawa and I am in LA, so how was the event?
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell us all about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm laughing because, okay, I feel like I was in a rom-com.
[SPEAKER_01]: Minus the rom.
[SPEAKER_01]: Minus all the rom, but in all of the
[SPEAKER_01]: but then I found out that the train sometimes is delayed and taking the train is not smart, which surprised me because I'm like airplanes get delayed, but not trained, but I'm like fine, I don't know how things work, so I will take a plane.
[SPEAKER_01]: So last minute I decided to fly there and my flight was supposed to leave at noon and arrive there at one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: and the book launch wasn't until 630.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in my mind, even if there was a delay, like, I was gonna get there in time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And a lot of other like, no amount of traffic that could like get in the way of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a 20 minute ride from the airport.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, I'm good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I ride the airport plenty of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm one of those people who I'm always like early because I, you know, have massive anxiety and I like being prepared.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like being early, I prefer to wait and not be surprised by delays.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we get a message saying, you know, your flight has been delayed.
[SPEAKER_01]: It will now leave at one and I'm like, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will get there at two.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's still plenty of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually thought to myself because I was checking into a hotel.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's actually better because I probably won't have to wait to check in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas if I had arrived at one, I might have to wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, I'm totally fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, this is why I arrived early.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is why I gave myself all this extra time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there was a mechanical issue and it was delayed again.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then after the mechanical issue, the flight was cancelled.
[SPEAKER_01]: cancelled due to unforeseen mechanical issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you never want to hear, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So my flight was cancelled.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was this at a peer center?
[SPEAKER_01]: Was this the island airport?
[SPEAKER_01]: Island City Airport.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the Taiwan that's adorable and cute and has a balance act.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so I'm thinking to myself, I need to get reboked.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the speaker announcement thingy said,
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll be rebuked in 15 minutes, just check your emails.
[SPEAKER_01]: But of course, like, I'm not going to wait 15 minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm too anxious for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I go up to the information desk.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, hi, I know you guys are probably hearing from all sorts of people with all sorts of problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually have a very serious reason to be there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have this event.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a full-clodge and for context, I'm feeling extra insecure about my nails.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm gonna show my nails in case you're watching via Zoom.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see like it's a gel manny situation where look at the growth, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a lot of growth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm gonna get them done this weekend because of Hawaii.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I couldn't get them done like two weekends in a row that's too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like not feeling great about my nails,
[SPEAKER_01]: And I keep noticing that the woman who I'm tying do keeps looking at my nails and I'm like, please don't make me feel worse about my nails.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the only person worrying about my nails, but also she kept looking at my hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, look, I have this book launch.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really important.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not just going to the book launch.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be in conversation with the author.
[SPEAKER_01]: The author is my client.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't understand everybody needs this book.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she keeps looking at my hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: And finally, she turns to me and she says, this is this the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she wasn't looking at my nails.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was looking at the book I was holding.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I didn't even realize I was holding the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I was reading the, like, you're always holding the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're just carrying it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also, I was like reviewing my questions for Tracy, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I want to have the book for the questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so she goes, is this the book?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I go, yes, it's the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you're watching us on YouTube, I'm holding up you, your husband, and his mother by Dr. Tracy Doblish.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really fun cover.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are triangles on the cover.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she goes, this is the book, and I'm like, yeah, it's the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she goes, oh my God, I really need this book.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so she turns to me, and she says, there's two flights leaving.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's one at 430, and you'll get there at 530, and there's one at 730.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll get there at 830.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, the 730 one is useless.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might as well not go.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I turn to her and I say, can you book me on the 430?
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, I don't choose these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's an automatic system.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't get to pick.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing I can do when I'm like, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please, so I open up my book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I show my author photo and I go, you don't want to disappoint this person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She has spent years writing this book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please, please, please, please, please, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, here's, because I have two copies, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I brought one for me, one for another.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's my waiting form.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, when are you going to hand her the copies?
[SPEAKER_04]: So that she's just happy with the copy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I gave her the copy that was meant for my mother-in-law.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to have Tracy sign it for my mother-in-law.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, look, here's the copy, because I know you need this book, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody need this book.
[SPEAKER_01]: who he's trying to get me all the 430 and he's like, I'll see what I can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was rebuked in the 430, bribed people with books.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the moral of the story.
[SPEAKER_01]: It works, bribing people with books.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she did book me in the 430 at 530 Weedland.
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't a gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no gate, there's no bridge so we can leave the gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm stuck in this inside this airplane.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very stressed out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, okay, people, I need to get out of this plane.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I get out of the plane.
[SPEAKER_01]: I run to the airport bathroom.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, this is the part where I feel like I'm in a rom-com.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am getting ready in an airport bathroom.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am a germaphob.
[SPEAKER_01]: I cannot stand bathrooms.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do not touch door knobs or doors.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm always like using my elbow for things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's so gross.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a clean bathroom.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it still a public bathroom.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm getting ready in the bathroom, putting on my heels, putting on my makeup, feeling like I'm in a movie, and I race to the bookstore, and I make it just in time, and it was a fabulous event.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dr. Tracey was, it was so amazing seeing her in her milieu, like just doing her thing, answering questions, and talking about this amazing book that's all about keeping families together, and making women feel like they're empowered in their lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: and how you don't have to choose between these things, you know, you don't have to be stuck in the victim villain binary.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to feel like whatever your issue is with your in laws is only your issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't, you don't have to feel alone essentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I bribed someone with him, but
[SPEAKER_01]: to get there and it worked.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the moral of the story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Always have a book for brides.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what, there's been a number of times in my life where I'm like, nobody goes over the inner calm and they're like, is there a literary agent in the house?
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, like the like a doctor on a plane, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But there are moments where our job does come in handy.
[SPEAKER_04]: So when I was,
[SPEAKER_04]: coming back from I think I was traveling from Canada back to the UK for my publishing masters graduation ceremony and my dad was with me because he was coming to watch me graduate anyways we're flying over and we're going through customs and there's this big long line and every very serious at the customs line and then they say like why are you here basically and I'm like okay I'm like graduating from
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, this program, Dada, Dada, Dada, and she goes, I did a sister program to that and so we started chatting about publishing and then she turns to my dad and she goes, you should be really proud of her.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then it's so cute.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know, and there's like, all these, there's another time at custom.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's always at customs for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: When I was traveling for a conference or something like that, they're like, well, what do you do for work?
[SPEAKER_04]: And when I work in book publishing, and then the guy just starts asking all these questions, they're kind of publishing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you think they're like, grilling you, and then he's like, I wish I'd keep you for a while to talk to you about your job.
[SPEAKER_04]: But there's a line back here, and you gotta keep going.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's never anything that's always happens to be customs and airports.
[SPEAKER_04]: But someday this will come in handy, but basically people are just very curious about our jobs.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, I'm glad that our job came in handy for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's useful.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's I often don't tell people what I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will say work in publishing, but I don't say agent.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But sometimes it's very smart because also a lot of people write books.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've gotten I remember I had an issue with my hotel room.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a while ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I need a new hotel room, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just mentioned my job thinking to myself, maybe this person is writing a book.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was writing a book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, really good book.
[SPEAKER_01]: She told me the hook, and I'm like, this is a really good hook.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you can write because the hook is fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, honestly, I am not above using our jobs if it's going to get me out of trouble.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to get there for the launch, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that story about customs.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an adorable story.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that you're done with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really cute.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like you should be proud of her.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, well, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was really cute.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't have any dramatic travel stories.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm thinking about this trip was pretty smooth.
[SPEAKER_04]: Landed, I just landed in LA really, I guess I do have a good story.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I landed in LA pretty late.
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, so I pre-booked a car.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is a funny story.
[SPEAKER_04]: So my first trip to LA, I obviously have to rent a car because I mean, CC maybe don't rent a car you over around, but I rent a car basically because it's a lot of driving.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the car that I get, and this was like my first trip to LA, I didn't know what I was getting into early on in my career.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I got a cheapest car that I can rent.
[SPEAKER_04]: I got a bright green Ford Fiesta.
[SPEAKER_04]: And no shade Ford Fiestas, but it was just like right radio active green.
[SPEAKER_04]: And
[SPEAKER_04]: And LA, I'm like, you know, you pull up to these big agencies and everything's valet and I was just anyway, I just felt kind of like I was a bit of a cloud car just in the circumstance of, you know, pulling up to all these like Mercedes portions and anyway, so my little bright Korean Ford Fiesta didn't have power windows CC did not have power windows so the valet had to like do the
[SPEAKER_04]: Crank it was a crank so anybody that's like Gen Z maybe doesn't know Like we used to have to crank our windows Okay, so the valley comes up to me at UTA and he comes up to the passenger side because like that's the side He's all right, and he's trying to talk to me and I was like you need to come around to this side and then he's like put down the window And then I reach over like my window down He's like oh my god, this is so embarrassing like go park over there Anyways, man, are you sure you're in the right place like actually just be sure
[SPEAKER_04]: You take a wrong turn.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this time, I pre-booked a luxury sedan.
[SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't say what luxury is, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But I was like, okay, I'm just, I'm moving up in the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm doing a free book right.
[SPEAKER_04]: My luxury sedan.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, so I get to the counter.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's 11 o'clock Pacific.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's like three o'clock, almost.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, middle of the night Eastern time.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I get there, I'm like waiting online.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I finally get to the counter to talk to the guy and he he notices that I had already inputted all of my information into this like app systems like oh my gosh thank you so much for inputting like so I don't have to retipe everything he's like I'll give you whatever you want and then he looks and he says that I already requested a luxury sedan or whatever so then he goes let me see what luxury cars we have left and I was like oh god now I'm gonna anyway full circle moment I'm just getting whatever like Peter they have left and I sound very caroletus but
[SPEAKER_04]: LA is a very hard driven talent right because it's a lot of driving.
[SPEAKER_04]: So anyway, he's like, I have a Mercedes for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a enormous three row SUV and it's so big and it's just me and I'm like, oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm driving around in this very, very large.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to say,
[SPEAKER_04]: because big cars are harder to drive.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, it's good at parking.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I do kind of like, you know, the Valleys will hopefully take good care of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, I do feel a bit like merging.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm like, yeah, I've nobody hit this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: To quote, share from Clueless, you know, when people, I think it was, it was her step brother who then became her boyfriend.
[SPEAKER_01]: After it, if you want to practice parking, she says, what's the point?
[SPEAKER_01]: Everywhere you go has Valet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lee.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least you don't have to park.
[SPEAKER_04]: I barely have to park.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd park up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why do I get Netflix?
[SPEAKER_04]: So I do want to get into my meetings.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't even have to go for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Travel.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we need to go through my meetings.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I've had two days of meetings so far.
[SPEAKER_04]: But where do you want to start?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to start with meetings?
[SPEAKER_04]: Or do you want to start with other stuff?
[SPEAKER_04]: What's on your mind?
[SPEAKER_01]: Meetings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Meetings are fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to know if there are any updates from the last time I went.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I want to know if the stuff you're saying is going to match the stuff that was set in March, or if there have been developments to argue so this isn't new, but this kept coming up on Monday repeatedly and I think I talked about this last time that I was in LA, but people are still talking about short stories, were they talking about short stories so and I think it's March one person talked about it, but yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes,
[SPEAKER_04]: multiple people were talking about short stories and I know I think we made fun of this because it's like we're not saying that people on L.A. don't read But is it easier for us to just like hand somebody a hook and a plot and something that they can read and they shorten our amount of time is that useful Yes, and it used to be that the short story had to be published, but now people are saying the short story doesn't even have to be published It just has to be the short story So there's a lot of like short story sale adaptations
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, again, I want to tease, but I don't want to give way too much information for our deep dive.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have a film TV person.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to say too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who will discuss the success of short stories unpublished short stories?
[SPEAKER_01]: And she will be open to receiving all attendees short stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she actually asked for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't ask her to be open.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says, will they send me short stories?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I am so hungry for short stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm super excited for this because anyway, I'm plugging the deep dive, but I just get so excited with the idea of like our delegates being able to submit their unpublished short stories because what if there's a gem right and I'm sure I'm sure you heard this too that yes part of it is the fact that it's short and people can read it really fast you can also give it to your boss to read it really fast, but yeah something that an agent said to me the agent and you and I both see when we go to New York you know who it is yeah she said.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's beautiful and literary, it's almost an automatic no, because that's usually not good for our adaptations.
[SPEAKER_01]: It usually has to be super commercial, super commercial, super fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's what people have been telling me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they didn't talk too much about the plot of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we can get into themes and things like that, but it was just the short story.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what surprised me was just the fact that it didn't have to be published.
[SPEAKER_04]: That, because it used to be people would say, yeah, short stories, you know, it could be a sub-stack.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just needs to be out there, but now it actually doesn't even matter what does they just want to know if they're connecting with it, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't have any views that's getting.
[SPEAKER_04]: So one thing, one of the more interesting things somebody said to me, which was an agent at a really large agency, one of my colleagues, and she said, in her career, so she's been doing this about, let's say, 20 years, this is the time where she feels like the book world and the TV film world are at their most disparate ends.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because there's a lot of time to where what's happening and publishing is similar to what's happening in TV field, but she's like right now, I actually feel like these two worlds are very far apart right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I found that really interesting, and I'll go through some of the reasons.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I was going to say how so, so interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So one of the main things that's coming up right now, and again, this came up in multiple meetings was, so publishing industry, as you guys know, we've talked about this before, which is a very female driven industry, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, you know, a lot of female authors, a lot of books published for the female market in terms of like book club books, and pretty much every genre, really is, you know, is tailored in that way.
[SPEAKER_04]: There are some quote-unquote more.
[SPEAKER_04]: male categories, such as, you know, those airport dad thrillers or some of that like really serious historicals, you know, the type of books that people buy for their dad's or, you know, father-in-law, step-dad's, that's where stuff for Christmas.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there are some dad categories, but anyway, generally publishing and seeing us more of like a female driven industry.
[SPEAKER_04]: So but she was saying that in multiple people were saying this, that
[SPEAKER_04]: What people want are very over masculine adaptations right now, which is interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: So like the, you know, despite thrillers, the sons of Anarchy, like task, people will talk to a task that wanting things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: That this like push for very masculine, who were masculine, hyper masculine characters and shows.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that was kind of what those times like, huh?
[SPEAKER_01]: I've heard it being called, guys with guns solving problems.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that's a genre of people want to be a guy with a gun solving problems, which, and there's not as many books doing that.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's obviously some kind of, that being obviously there are books doing that, but not as many as a lot of the other categories.
[SPEAKER_04]: I talked with a bunch of people about Romanticis because obviously that's a very popular category in books.
[SPEAKER_04]: But,
[SPEAKER_04]: Nothing has got made so far in TV film and so people don't want to buy more Romanticity until they see how different ones do They want to wait for fourth wing to get made when wait for Akatari to get made because the fact that those huge books are struggling You know, it just because so much happens behind the scenes with TV film in terms of
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm also expensive, like the man who is so expensive to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they want the proof of concept, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so there's that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I talked about a number of people about dark romance and some of them are, because again, that's another category.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's really hot motion right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: But they are not really seeing it very big here.
[SPEAKER_04]: They call it erotic thrillers is like kind of the TV film, the blend of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think one of the things somebody said that was really interesting was
[SPEAKER_04]: And we've talked about dark romance on the show before, so I think everybody's kind of familiar with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it comes across very different on the page when it's an imagination thing in your mind, versus seeing it on the screen, the like, X factor of some of these dark romances would be very different to portray on the screen, versus a read.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're not confident that it could be done in a way that was, I don't know, just right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if it's more of a rock thriller, yes, but like, it key gray zone dark romance will be,
[SPEAKER_04]: It will be hard pressed to find a lot of these types of sales, but again, you know, you never know.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's obviously, you know, 50th grade, et cetera, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there will be some, but it's like, it's just one of those things where, yeah, just because something's doing really well and publishing doesn't actually mean it's something that people are looking for and the other thing to mention is.
[SPEAKER_04]: We are kind of seeing the results of the writer's strike so the writer's strike happened two years ago and people weren't buying during that time because things weren't happening and so that window of when they were buying now is the time that that stuff would have been coming out and so we're not seeing as much stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: Kind of actually coming out because of that and so there's like there's layoffs There's consolidations.
[SPEAKER_04]: I heard one doc you team at big production company that people would know They should under the doc you team.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, there's like a lot of consolidation Everybody kind of looking at their budget some things like that So it's not as like boom times it was when the streamers were looking for so much IP
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but but people definitely say they're looking for the same type of thing, which is everybody's always looking for big sweeping love stories and a CC probably, you know, we talked about this last time when you were in LA, legal thrillers, people are still looking for spy, espionage, that type of thing, but it does lead to more of that stuff we were talking with more hyper masculine, what else?
[SPEAKER_04]: People are still looking for high concept, book club, voisi, all of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's more just, you know, does that project connect with that co-agent
[SPEAKER_01]: have they mentioned anything about what saturated?
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember when I went the saturated categories where domestic suspense, because, you know, if just felt like every book felt like the same and they were like, it needs to be really fresh, really fresh, really interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then another one was also rom-coms.
[SPEAKER_01]: People were saying, like, there's just too many that feel like the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they don't feel fresh in original enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's still true or what people are saying.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just what's like what's going to differentiate the romance rom-com and category.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a big thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, there has to be something that will make it stand out and be a via because all of these guys are thinking about what is a vehicle for somebody or what are the mandates that I got.
[SPEAKER_04]: So for example, like somebody named like a big name actor again, somebody that everybody would know and they're like, oh, he's looking for this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, you know, his people told us he wants us or he came into a meeting, you know sat down and said this.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so it's like in this example, he's looking for a historical.
[SPEAKER_04]: you know, and so in general, a lot of people are not looking for historical, but this one actor who's hot right now, who gets to choose his next project, he wants to store.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: So it is very individual driven, and that's why doing these means is so important because the mandate, you know what that actor said in that meeting last week, you know what that producer or showrunners looking to do next, those pivot and change, which is really interesting to hear, but in terms of saturation,
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, what is going to differentiate the romance?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is super important?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it something where the later in life romance?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you know what's the hook?
[SPEAKER_04]: Who is it the vehicle for?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's always super important.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, so they're going to say, oh, they're getting a lot of time travel.
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, I'm just trying to see all my notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Escapism.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is one thing that is very similar.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think between book and TV film.
[SPEAKER_04]: Escapism, true crime, things that are cost-effective.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's why historic.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just mentioned historical being really hard.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, all my, all my super messy notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I take lots of notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're just very messy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but as long as they make sense to you, like that's all that matters.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, they're good.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, that's my rundown.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think anything, you know, that you don't know CC, but it's always good to give the listeners a rundowns.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always something.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always something, you know, it's why I love having these conversations.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes it's brand new information, sometimes it's just a new angle on something we already knew, which is always doing this fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wishing you great weekends, great weekends, wishing you great meetings, uh, also great weekends, but that's not what I meant to say.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, let me know what you guys think in the comments and we'll continue to keep you guys up to date on our travels and all of our adventures and now we're going to throw to our sponsors.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, coming back.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have we got some DMs.
[SPEAKER_04]: We got to talk through some DM CC where do you want to start with our DMs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do the.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think let's do the vision one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got a DM.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to pull this up.
[SPEAKER_01]: on my phone so I can properly read it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I would love to hear advice on how to balance one's vision for a story with the publishing industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you guys have talked a bit about this before, but I'm using
[SPEAKER_01]: Nana Raimo, which we'll talk about in a while, to write a story about body image and fat phobia, but I want to make it gritty and intense, and sometimes I fear it would be too much for traditional publishing.
[SPEAKER_01]: How does one know what's too much for traditional publishing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they send all this really sweet message about our show and how much they they appreciated and we appreciate that so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, this question of, I want to write something, in this person's case, it's about body image, that phobia, and they want to make it great and intense, and they're worried it's too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the question is, how does one know it's too much?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is a really important topic.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also very big topic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's very untethered.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you want to get this off, hardly.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I guess I don't really have a clear answer because I'm not really sure I feel like fully understand the question, like, what is too much?
[SPEAKER_04]: I kind of just explained, you know, with dark romance and there's like, hic factors and things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, like, too much.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess I don't really understand what they mean by too much.
[SPEAKER_04]: In my opinion, too much for the traditional publishing industry, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess my mind goes a couple places.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it to experimental?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it something where it's just more literary and outside the kind of confines of a more of a mass market, you know, general national interest type of book, sometimes something being to niche, but this doesn't sound like a niche topic.
[SPEAKER_04]: So then I'm like, I'm not really, I don't really know why this would be to much so.
[SPEAKER_04]: to me it sounds right on the nose.
[SPEAKER_04]: So sometimes when something feels uncomfortable or you're uncovering something that's actually a good thing and that's not like I'm being too much.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think this person's asking what would the reception be and would the reception be negative?
[SPEAKER_04]: And so but in what ways do they think it's going to be negative and does that ultimately matter to them because in publishing all that matters is eventually you're kind of like finding that perfect fit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, I think this is a great topic, but if it comes off more experimental or accusatory, a lot of it depends on like tone or is it going to be about academic, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the other thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: If it ends up being more academic that it's not from mainstream publishing because it's more academic and not like a big five trade book.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's kind of where my mind goes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I actually don't think this is a problem the way that this person is presenting it.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, I mean, I like what you said about what about it is too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it an experimental format?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it an academic treatment?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be I also read it as a possibility to dark.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's worried that, you know, there's not enough levity or humor or elements that I guess people have been saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: They want a lot in their fiction.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be various things and we don't know if the person's not here.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I actually like this question because it touches on
[SPEAKER_01]: what I consider to be the most common mistake that writers make across the board, Al-Jhonra's, Al-Kadagore's, and it's the most overlooked mistake.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is the mistake of not developing a palette.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you are a chef and you want to create an original dish and you want this to be a dish that's going to be served at the top restaurants in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, original dish is very important.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not copying a recipe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then the first thing you need to do is develop a palette.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you develop a palette by eating out a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's
[SPEAKER_01]: noticing acidity, salt, fat, sweet, whatever the other senses are because I'm not a chef, but, and you study, and you study obsessively.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you reverse engineer, not only how the dish was made, but how the public
[SPEAKER_01]: is receiving the stitch, you know, what restaurants are hotter right now because of the the dishes that people are loving, how much can you push the boundaries of like adding more salt and that's still being delicious and I guess different but not too different that people are like I don't want this.
[SPEAKER_01]: What ingredients can you use?
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, pushing the boundaries but not pushing it too much to the point of like alienating people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And developing a palette is something that's very intuitive, I think, for chefs, but I think authors forget about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people forget that just because you've been reading all your life doesn't mean you've been studying the books you've been reading.
[SPEAKER_01]: My question to you is, what books not to you, Carly, to you, the person who sent us the DM, what books are comps to your books?
[SPEAKER_01]: How intense and gritty are those books?
[SPEAKER_01]: That is how far you can push it in today's climate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that is the answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: The answer you are seeking is in the books that you have to read and to study and to dissect and to obsess over.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe someone's listening to this and going, but I don't want to copy books.
[SPEAKER_01]: So developing a palette is not about copying.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about knowing what the market wants and then you make it your own, but you don't make it your own by making it completely different.
[SPEAKER_01]: You make it your own with the twist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there books that make it totally different, sure?
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, most people are not writing experimental works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people are not writing the books that's so different, it doesn't even look like a book.
[SPEAKER_01]: or a story that's so different that, you know, your brain doesn't see the framework of a story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most people are writing within the same framework, but making an original in the execution.
[SPEAKER_01]: So to the person who's worried about balancing vision with the market, I ask you, have you studied to the market.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most writers have not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most writers skip this step.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in skipping the step, they shoot themselves on the foot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: the reason why they're not landing an agent, not landing a book deal is because the skip to this essential developing appellate step.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I ask you have you done that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you tell me I have, I have read a hundred books, I have studied them obsessively.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've reversed engineered how all these storytellers are creating this intense and gritty factor while still keeping curiosity still leveraging.
[SPEAKER_01]: The readers interest then I'm telling you you have nothing to worry about because I don't know if you're talent's gonna take you as far as you want it to but you've done what you could You know like this is how you balance you balance your vision By being really intentional about studying the market too many people skip this step and I think people skip it because
[SPEAKER_01]: They think I've been reading my whole life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I already did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a difference between having eaten out your whole life as a consumer and eating out your whole life as someone who is studying and to become a chef.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think they're different approaches.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I think this are all good points.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I'd be curious what this person's working on because as I said, something uncomfortable is good.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I would continue to dig into that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we had another TM about nanoremo, nanoremo, national novel writing month.
[SPEAKER_04]: CC, how do agents feel about nanoremo?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so nano, nano, rimal is, okay, here's how I feel about nano, rimal in an anecdote.
[SPEAKER_01]: Aaron, Morgan Stern, author of the Night Circus.
[SPEAKER_01]: She used to tweet, and I remember this tweet.
[SPEAKER_01]: As we were approaching November, she would say, we're approaching the time of year again, where people say that the night circus was written during nanoremo.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote a draft that I then rewrote a million times, and I don't remember what the exact details were, I don't remember, but essentially she was saying, please stop saying that you can write a book like the night circus in a month, because you can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I stand by this so much,
[SPEAKER_01]: You cannot write a fantastic, publishable book in a month.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there's this one person who does this.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, I don't know that I believe them, but if they are, the person who does it, they're the exception.
[SPEAKER_01]: Please do not count on being the exception.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nano Rhymo is great in terms of like getting people to write.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there is a month, whether it's November or another month, when which people are going to carve out time for their writing and get excited about it, love that, love that, so excited for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if your expectation is to have a publishable work by the end of November, please do your God manage your expectations and just, no, like don't have that, be the expectations.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to be clear, the person who asks us the question is not under this impression at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she asks us to talk about this, and to me, the number one angle that agents think about when they think about Nanorimo is, please don't think that one month is going to be enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: One month is starting point great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you disagree, Carly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, how do you feel about Nana Raimel?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, everything you say is completely true.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think one of the things that I like about it is people making a conscious decision to be committed to their craft.
[SPEAKER_04]: I find that very admirable.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of like when somebody says, I'm going to do a marathon.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to train for something to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's such a signal that they are taking it really seriously because you have to make
[SPEAKER_04]: Decision and priority shifts that will center this as the central main character energy like focal point of your of your life.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have to tell the people in your life like hey, I'm prioritizing this this month.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is important to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here's why can you pick up the slack with child care with meal prep with cleaning the house every minute every spare minute that I get this month.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to be focusing on this and I think it's like claiming that energy claiming that space for yourself for your passion.
[SPEAKER_04]: is very important.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I really connect deeply with writers who feel like that is going to help them on their footing.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, it's kind of just like that kick start to be like again, it's a draft by no means of my saying that they're going to write a publishable manuscript to speak there's not enough hours in the day.
[SPEAKER_04]: And let's be real, right, because most people have have jobs.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's like a smoother day job.
[SPEAKER_04]: and they have to do this, and it's obviously just a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's the piece that I connect with the most.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I don't really like to downplay how important that mindset shift and establishing those goals, those routines, that sense of community, that sense of working for, but you want without shame.
[SPEAKER_04]: I find that very empowering.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I do like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But as you said on all the important points, which is don't query it in December, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and I think you mentioned the the most important word of all, a priority like...
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're making writing your priority, this can be a great opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't work for everyone, but that's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most things don't work for everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that you mentioned priority.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it's really refreshing and inspiring to see writers, you know, hunkering down and being like, this is going to be my, my nano remote.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to make it count like awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that, you know, in the same way that you wouldn't plan to see and expect to have a tree at the end of a month.
[SPEAKER_01]: you, like, don't expect to have a publishable novel by the end of the month.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, this person also asked us about tips and such.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I think Harley always gives this great tip, which you kind of mentioned now, which is meal prep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have someone else prep your meals.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you cannot, because we have to eat every day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, like, if you can, if you can find a way to make meal time easier, that's a great tip, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another really awesome tip, I think, is, and again, this doesn't work for all people, but having a buddy system.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where you can all hold each other accountable and share each other on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't make it in one day, you can be like, that's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can make it the next day.
[SPEAKER_01]: I felt that super helpful to above all, like you said it's about the priority and I love that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, no it's true.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like if you can and if you have a writer in your life, gift them a food service for them, you know, like the the food box services that food delivery services, that's a great gift for somebody who's in their editing cave or in their writing cave because, you know, they can tailor to different food preferences and allergies and things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyway,
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a hot tip, as we move into the holidays.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hot tip, okay, so hot tip, hot tip, hot tip, hot tip.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, it seems like this conversation around slow periods, dead periods is unrelenting.
[SPEAKER_04]: People don't seem to want to give up this.
[SPEAKER_04]: At this conversation about when they should be querying.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, Cecie, do you want to talk about the jam we got about this one?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll read it up for you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, there's a lovely note in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she says, I'm wondering if you and Carly could talk about if there are any slower or quote dead on quote periods.
[SPEAKER_01]: Over the next few months of agents not acting on new projects or looking at their query inbox as much, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a writer who was getting ready to query my work, I'm curious if it's better to wait until the new year, or if it truly doesn't matter slash depends on the agent.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a lovely, lovely, lovely person.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've interacted with them online before.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like you're so right.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is an unrelenting topic.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for good reason, it's kind of, again, this is kind of like the stock market.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you invest in the stock market, you can learn all sorts of things about, this is how you diversify your portfolio.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the companies that you might learn and invest if you have an aggressive standpoint or a conservative standpoint, or, you know, I guess a hybrid one.
[SPEAKER_01]: But people typically what they obsess over is the timing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what's the right time?
[SPEAKER_01]: And no matter how many times people say, don't try to time the market.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because nobody has a crystal ball.
[SPEAKER_01]: People still obsess over the timing as opposed to obsessing over the whole, like, let me learn about how to diversify my portfolio.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, that's my stock market analogy.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's nothing to analogy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's also been studies about whether you put in a little bit of month versus lump sums, how it all works.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just like dollar cost averageing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, people exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think that's a great analogy.
[SPEAKER_04]: If we had an answer to this question, it would make everybody's life easier, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it would be like, okay, well, then we will wait till January or Carly said that I should query now because younger agents are hungry to sign compliance before the end of the year or more established agents are just trying to make it to the end of the year, so that they can just like breathe for two weeks.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I do think, you know, everybody is going to be in their own headspace about it, but the best agents know when they see
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, so it's not a matter of like, oh, I'm not going to look at it, or oh, this timing doesn't work for me as an agent.
[SPEAKER_04]: The timing that works for me as an agent is when I see something great, I reach out and then I read it and I offer rep because that's my job.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so this whole concept of like when is the right time?
[SPEAKER_04]: When am I getting an agent in the right mood?
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, what's the right framework for this is like not really helpful.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't think because I think coming at it from I wrote the best book I possibly could I, you know, edited to the best of my abilities.
[SPEAKER_04]: I pitched a great book.
[SPEAKER_04]: It is ready now and because it's ready now now is the right time.
[SPEAKER_04]: now is always the right time when it is ready.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I mean, obviously agents close for queries, you know, many agencies close for queries at the holiday season or something like that, like just follow the guidelines, basically it's the answer and it's not a revolutionary answer, but this isn't a revolutionary process.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're talking about a system that has, you know, worked this way for a very long time.
[SPEAKER_04]: So good agents will find what they are looking for, and so yeah, if it's ready, then go
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think as much as we would love to have a objective answer, if an agent is open to queries, it's a feasible time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's the right time for you, I mean, I once heard of someone who did this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: She made a spreadsheet and she put the names of all the agents she was going to query.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she wrote them in order of the agents I want the most at the top.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I believe the top 10 I think were like her dream dream scenario.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she made sure to pick a date in which all the top 10 were open to queries.
[SPEAKER_01]: But not necessarily the other ones because she could never find a date where every single one was open.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so maybe that's strategy you want to consider.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know if it worked or not for her because I never heard back, but this is not someone who writes in my genre at all, but she's a lovely human.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, I think, I think at the end of the day, you do want to find a time in which most people are not closed because that's just shooting yourself on the foot, but other than that, like, I don't know, I will say this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't look at my query inbox every day, you know, I don't have time to do it every day, but more importantly, I'm not on the right headspace every day.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we most agents that I know of look at queries and batches.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's probably not going to be looked at on the same day that you are submitting it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like laundry day.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like the clothes I'm washing on Saturday, laundry day, I didn't wear them all on Saturday.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wore them throughout the week.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm addressing the cleaning of those clothes on Saturday.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have the worst analogies to this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a lot of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all over the place.
[SPEAKER_04]: laundry stock market like let's go on on today like oh my god maybe cc just have to do laundry after this and that's why she's thinking I do have to do laundry actually yeah yeah yeah yeah oh that's funny yeah no this is just like a perennial thing because it comes like to me it just comes from a fear-based position right it's like what if
[SPEAKER_04]: the agent that I want, isn't looking at it that day, and it's very fierce.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just think like going in with the headset to win versus going in with the headset not to lose are two different things.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I just want to encourage people to be on the offense as opposed to the defense here.
[SPEAKER_04]: For a sports opportunity to wrap us up.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, that one had to come for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, well that is everything for today, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for hanging out with us and we'll see you all another time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye!
[SPEAKER_00]: Carly Waters is a literary agent at PS Literary Agency, but a work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS Literary Agency.