WEBVTT 00:07.085 --> 00:08.729 [SPEAKER_02]: and welcome to our show. 00:09.010 --> 00:11.337 [SPEAKER_02]: The shit no one tells you about writing. 00:12.079 --> 00:21.364 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm best selling author Bianca Marie, and I'm joined by CC Lira of Wendy Sherman Associates and Carly Waters of PS Literary. 00:22.053 --> 00:22.754 [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, everyone. 00:22.814 --> 00:28.082 [SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to another books with Hucksegment, as per usual we are going to dive straight in. 00:28.503 --> 00:30.586 [SPEAKER_02]: Kali, can you please read us your query later? 00:30.926 --> 00:36.975 [SPEAKER_00]: Dear Carly, I'm seeking representation for my YA fantasy novel, The Last, Shree, and Galantis. 00:37.136 --> 00:38.998 [SPEAKER_00]: Complete at 75,000 words. 00:39.239 --> 00:42.464 [SPEAKER_00]: It is the first in a plan trilogy with a sequel already in progress. 00:42.484 --> 00:46.710 [SPEAKER_00]: 17 years ago, humans overthrew the Elvin Monarchy, 00:46.690 --> 00:54.363 [SPEAKER_00]: and declared the dawn of a new age and equal democratic society powered by technology instead of magic, but inequality was a lie. 00:54.884 --> 00:56.327 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, Galantis is dying. 00:56.828 --> 01:09.610 [SPEAKER_00]: Ells are imprisoned in compounds, their ears clipped and mutilated, orcs waste away in refugee camps, dwarves hide in underground ruins, in both humans and otherworldlies, face starvation as resources vanish. 01:10.062 --> 01:22.236 [SPEAKER_00]: Hope breast on three unlikely allies, the heir, to the Elven throne, and ex-out princess raised by humans, her fiercely loyal human sister, and the disillusioned son of the president who led the revolution. 01:22.917 --> 01:27.823 [SPEAKER_00]: The princess harbors a secret, growing power, the ability to restore life to a dying world. 01:28.143 --> 01:31.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Together the three must heal the fractures their parents left behind. 01:31.983 --> 01:37.910 [SPEAKER_00]: but deception for ridden love and the legacy of old trails threaten to unravel their fragile alliance before it can begin. 01:38.510 --> 01:44.777 [SPEAKER_00]: The lastrian galantists lens the elemental magic of and ember in the ashes with the political complexity of red queen. 01:45.298 --> 01:51.465 [SPEAKER_00]: It will appeal to fans of Tommy Ediemes, the children of blood and bone, and Tracy Dion's legend born. 01:52.226 --> 02:01.416 [SPEAKER_00]: With its focus on political intrigue rebellion and sisterhood, it reimagines familiar fantasy tropes, placing elves and orcs not as all powerful beings, but as marginalized survivors in a modern society. 02:02.088 --> 02:08.059 [SPEAKER_00]: I grew up in South Africa where I witnessed both the deep scars of segregation in the beauty of people uniting across the divides. 02:08.600 --> 02:10.765 [SPEAKER_00]: Those experiences shaped the heart of the story. 02:11.185 --> 02:15.794 [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't a book with an agenda, but one that invites young readers into a richly imagined world. 02:16.235 --> 02:22.527 [SPEAKER_00]: It explores the complexities of siblings and friendship bonds, encourages reflection on the shape of society and captures the thriller romance. 02:22.861 --> 02:24.285 [SPEAKER_00]: just beginning to unfold. 02:24.385 --> 02:28.778 [SPEAKER_00]: I would be honored by your consideration and we'd be delighted to share the full manuscript at your request. 02:29.220 --> 02:30.483 [SPEAKER_03]: But sincerely, you're adapted. 02:30.965 --> 02:32.188 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so much, Kali. 02:32.208 --> 02:33.753 [SPEAKER_03]: OK, what was that word count? 02:33.773 --> 02:35.217 [SPEAKER_03]: And what was your take on it? 02:35.433 --> 02:38.538 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so it came in at around 350 words. 02:38.838 --> 02:41.562 [SPEAKER_00]: So my take on it, let's just start at the top. 02:41.803 --> 02:43.626 [SPEAKER_00]: So I really like this title. 02:43.746 --> 02:44.387 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's great. 02:44.427 --> 02:46.630 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the word count is pretty much on point here. 02:47.051 --> 02:50.376 [SPEAKER_00]: You say the first in a plan trilogy with a sequel, Auditium Progress, that's great. 02:50.436 --> 02:51.618 [SPEAKER_00]: I just wouldn't put that there. 02:51.818 --> 02:53.200 [SPEAKER_00]: I would put the comps there. 02:53.280 --> 02:58.288 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I would take that line and put it at the bottom because I always talk about real estate. 02:58.308 --> 03:04.157 [SPEAKER_00]: A query letter is real estate and the most valuable real estate is going to be at the top of which catches people's attention. 03:04.424 --> 03:08.189 [SPEAKER_00]: and for a white fantasy novel, many people will assume that it could be a series. 03:08.489 --> 03:12.795 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that, now, goes without saying, but it doesn't have to take a valuable real estate at the top. 03:12.835 --> 03:15.339 [SPEAKER_00]: So I put the cops here, focus on the hook a bit more. 03:15.579 --> 03:21.287 [SPEAKER_00]: What I think this query letter does really well, and it's very hard to do well, is just really like simplified the world. 03:21.367 --> 03:28.356 [SPEAKER_00]: I think we have a very strong understanding of what's actually happening in this world in terms of, you know, we're good guys, the bad guys, the complexities, 03:28.522 --> 03:30.166 [SPEAKER_00]: the magic, all of that sort of stuff. 03:30.266 --> 03:31.890 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's really well done. 03:32.211 --> 03:37.383 [SPEAKER_00]: What I think this query fails to do is really center a main character. 03:37.603 --> 03:46.885 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we spend their short kind of paragraphs, if you want to call them that, but essentially like three paragraphs talking about the world and we don't have a main character to kind of 03:47.287 --> 03:51.091 [SPEAKER_00]: introduced as the lens in which we're going to see this through, starting with the facts. 03:51.131 --> 04:05.264 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, it's this balance of, like, I think it does this well, but if we could center a main character, I think it would be even stronger because it comes off as you are just describing a world and what we want to do is follow a character through the world and see the world through this character's eyes. 04:05.784 --> 04:08.187 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I think will really make this a lot stronger. 04:08.207 --> 04:10.749 [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing is we never name anybody. 04:10.849 --> 04:15.994 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an exile princess, a fiercely loyal human 04:16.531 --> 04:22.559 [SPEAKER_00]: by not naming them, it also kind of creates a lot of distance between the reader and what's happening here. 04:22.599 --> 04:26.784 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think naming them would help as well, kind of bring this story to life. 04:26.804 --> 04:30.128 [SPEAKER_00]: Overall, there is something familiar about this, right? 04:30.148 --> 04:33.392 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like there's a revolution and there are two sides and there's allies. 04:33.473 --> 04:38.539 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm always trying to figure out what the story like this, what is the thing that is going to really, 04:38.519 --> 04:39.641 [SPEAKER_00]: Make it stand out. 04:40.021 --> 04:53.563 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you bury the love story here, and I can't quite figure out why we're bearing the love story if perhaps because this is a planned Trilogy the love story doesn't really blossom until later in the trilogy perhaps, but I think if we can kind of explain that a little bit more. 04:53.583 --> 04:54.925 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that would create a little bit more 04:55.158 --> 05:00.265 [SPEAKER_00]: stakes between these two sides and how these allies come together, I think that would help a lot. 05:00.986 --> 05:01.827 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I don't know. 05:01.887 --> 05:05.071 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's one of those things where it's not my primary categories. 05:05.111 --> 05:09.277 [SPEAKER_00]: It's hard for me to say whether I think this will or won't stand out in this category. 05:09.638 --> 05:12.501 [SPEAKER_00]: But I do think you've done a great job of summarizing the world. 05:12.722 --> 05:24.017 [SPEAKER_00]: As long as you can center a main character, I think that will really make this one stand out even more and kind of 05:24.638 --> 05:27.542 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, CCC, we're handing it across to you now. 05:28.283 --> 05:29.825 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was really imaginative. 05:29.905 --> 05:36.333 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I always think it's so impressive that someone can come off with such a unique and, you know, imaginative world. 05:36.413 --> 05:40.258 [SPEAKER_01]: So definitely echoing what Carly said about the world building is really clear. 05:40.278 --> 05:42.741 [SPEAKER_01]: You did a really good job of conveying that. 05:43.062 --> 05:46.326 [SPEAKER_01]: But, and again, this is where I feel mean. 05:47.403 --> 05:50.347 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels too big picture, like it feels too zoomed out. 05:50.808 --> 05:52.450 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm not looking at the story. 05:52.711 --> 06:02.725 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like a bird flying in the sky, looking down at Planet Earth, as opposed to being inside Planet Earth in a specific city, in a specific neighborhood, in a specific house. 06:03.246 --> 06:04.167 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you examples. 06:04.447 --> 06:09.995 [SPEAKER_01]: So the princess has a power and reading from the query letter, the ability to restore life to a dying world. 06:10.897 --> 06:11.698 [SPEAKER_01]: What does that mean? 06:12.519 --> 06:14.502 [SPEAKER_01]: That's too big of a power, right? 06:14.642 --> 06:16.785 [SPEAKER_01]: So if she has the ability to restore life just do it, 06:17.407 --> 06:23.774 [SPEAKER_01]: but then I'm thinking, okay, so she can't use her power for some reason, like her power, you know, in order to be activated, they need to go on a quest. 06:24.094 --> 06:25.956 [SPEAKER_01]: Great, what does that quest look like? 06:26.296 --> 06:28.719 [SPEAKER_01]: I have no idea, because you haven't told me. 06:29.079 --> 06:32.523 [SPEAKER_01]: You've told me that they must heal the fractures, their parents left behind. 06:33.044 --> 06:33.864 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't know what that looks like. 06:34.345 --> 06:38.369 [SPEAKER_01]: You've told me that deception for Ben Love and the legacy of old betrayals are threats. 06:40.351 --> 06:41.893 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the quest looks like. 06:42.433 --> 06:46.738 [SPEAKER_01]: In fantasy, it's really easy to get bogged down 06:47.039 --> 06:51.377 [SPEAKER_01]: and I empathize so much, but the quest is where we need specificity. 06:51.758 --> 06:54.349 [SPEAKER_01]: Like the quest is the most important part, you know? 06:54.683 --> 07:03.537 [SPEAKER_01]: you are spending a lot of time and you're doing it really well, by the way, focusing on the backstory, the history, focusing on the themes, the heart. 07:03.937 --> 07:09.906 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a beautiful line here about it explores the complexity of sibling and friendship bonds, encourages reflection. 07:10.567 --> 07:13.011 [SPEAKER_01]: That's actually really great that you know that about your story. 07:13.051 --> 07:17.518 [SPEAKER_01]: It shows that your story has layers and layers and that's impressive, but you can't lead with that. 07:17.802 --> 07:25.500 [SPEAKER_01]: because get the end of the day in order for someone to fall in love with your story's themes and for your story to stay with someone. 07:25.700 --> 07:33.007 [SPEAKER_01]: and for our acquiring editor to be like, oh, this book really stayed with me and made me think of, you know, my sibling and my friendship and those bonds. 07:33.427 --> 07:36.410 [SPEAKER_01]: First, they need to be really curious about the story. 07:36.430 --> 07:42.316 [SPEAKER_01]: And you haven't given us an up on the story, so I think you really need to rethink, to Carly's point about real estate. 07:42.996 --> 07:44.238 [SPEAKER_01]: What are you going to lead with? 07:44.578 --> 07:48.021 [SPEAKER_01]: Lead with that quest, really focus on that quest and make it super specific. 07:48.562 --> 07:49.382 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, CC. 07:49.723 --> 07:53.226 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, Carly, can you tell us what's in the opening pages? 07:53.527 --> 07:53.888 [SPEAKER_03]: All right. 07:53.928 --> 07:57.153 [SPEAKER_00]: We start with a prologue called the pale palace. 07:58.035 --> 08:01.140 [SPEAKER_00]: We are opening in the morning. 08:01.200 --> 08:06.349 [SPEAKER_00]: There is some sort of kind of war revolution of some kind of happening in the distance. 08:06.709 --> 08:11.658 [SPEAKER_00]: We imagine that we are in the palace and the threat of this war, whatever's happening. 08:11.678 --> 08:13.180 [SPEAKER_00]: It's getting closer and closer to that. 08:13.360 --> 08:17.307 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that there is obviously a lot going on between like the monarch. 08:17.742 --> 08:34.215 [SPEAKER_00]: and we have a character named Rain, and they are speaking in Elfish, an old language that they have spoken, and then they go down the hall, once they kind of work through some of the worst stuff, they'll go down the hall and somebody is getting birth to a 08:34.786 --> 08:48.835 [SPEAKER_00]: health and baby, which seems like a rare occasion and it was really excited about it, but the wars kind of coming closer to them and they decide that they have to take the baby and get the baby to safety because of the, again, battle coming towards the palace. 08:49.276 --> 08:52.643 [SPEAKER_00]: They decide that the baby is going to be raised by humans. 08:53.129 --> 08:57.056 [SPEAKER_00]: because a bit of a disagreement between the characters about whether that's the right thing to do. 08:57.116 --> 09:07.495 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the, I think we can assume pretty sure human servants is going to take the baby cross-aborder to be raised by a human family. 09:07.996 --> 09:10.741 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is where the prologue ends. 09:10.841 --> 09:12.765 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we jump to 17 years later. 09:12.785 --> 09:14.428 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a chapter one. 09:14.408 --> 09:25.603 [SPEAKER_00]: We're in the POB of somebody called Violet, and we know that essentially this is the sister of the baby who was being raised in this human family. 09:25.723 --> 09:28.306 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is an interaction in this chapter between the two sisters. 09:29.267 --> 09:30.109 [SPEAKER_03]: And that is where we are. 09:30.870 --> 09:32.632 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, some colleague, okay, so what did you think? 09:33.593 --> 09:37.719 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, so I really loved the first paragraph. 09:37.979 --> 09:39.581 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was so well done. 09:39.621 --> 09:41.884 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll read it because I think it was really really great. 09:42.387 --> 09:44.571 [SPEAKER_00]: We are in the eye of the storm, rain thought. 09:45.092 --> 09:50.380 [SPEAKER_00]: He could just make out the smoke building up from the horizon, a hangover from the attack on the orcs the night before. 09:50.420 --> 09:52.083 [SPEAKER_00]: It was almost peaceful now. 09:52.123 --> 09:57.913 [SPEAKER_00]: The wind had dropped in the thickness of the night sky was melting away, making way for the dark brews of dawn. 09:58.594 --> 09:59.315 [SPEAKER_00]: Brilliant writing. 09:59.516 --> 10:03.222 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you can obviously tell this person spent so much time crafting this opening piece. 10:03.582 --> 10:07.028 [SPEAKER_00]: That's such a way with words, so I thought that was so, so well done. 10:07.244 --> 10:10.409 [SPEAKER_00]: The next paragraph is where I started to kind of wander my mind away. 10:10.429 --> 10:12.412 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I really wanted to be swept into this world. 10:12.432 --> 10:14.696 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, there's a battle in there's Orcs and there's Elfson. 10:14.816 --> 10:17.681 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I was in it and I'm like, okay, the dawn is rising. 10:18.101 --> 10:23.330 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the next line that he says, how long do we have Argo was talking to someone on his cell phone inside the palace? 10:23.350 --> 10:26.535 [SPEAKER_00]: And as soon as I heard the word cell phone, my brain goes, 10:26.515 --> 10:27.556 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, technology. 10:27.616 --> 10:28.597 [SPEAKER_00]: What's different about this world? 10:28.637 --> 10:29.799 [SPEAKER_00]: How is this world different than ours? 10:29.859 --> 10:41.732 [SPEAKER_00]: And I start to just like spin and spiral and like create my own narrative and questions about the world that if you don't kind of it's not that you always have to immediately answer the questions that the reader has but you don't want the reader to start to have their mind wander. 10:42.373 --> 10:51.223 [SPEAKER_00]: So as I was kind of reading these pages, I was looking for instances where I was kind of pulled out of the narrative and essentially this draft reads to me as something that 10:51.507 --> 10:56.957 [SPEAKER_00]: definitely still needs to go through editing in terms of like beta readers and there's still a lot of work to do. 10:57.318 --> 11:10.241 [SPEAKER_00]: I can tell this person understands their world so deeply, which is incredible, but there's instances where just interactions between these elves, so we're trying to figure out like, okay, who's the monarch and what is he doing? 11:10.281 --> 11:14.950 [SPEAKER_00]: And once seen the monarchs upset after he throws 11:15.537 --> 11:21.369 [SPEAKER_00]: it says there must be more we can do rain now before his king placing both his hands on his monarchs slumped head. 11:21.870 --> 11:27.020 [SPEAKER_00]: But you never tell us where the monarch is, is he on a couch, is he on the ground, is he on a chair. 11:27.141 --> 11:34.255 [SPEAKER_00]: I just found the stage directions really out of sync and I couldn't I felt like I was doing all the mental gymnastics as the reader. 11:34.235 --> 11:46.247 [SPEAKER_00]: Took the fill in the gaps of what was actually happening in the story from a scene point of view I just felt like the grasp on scene wasn't as strong as it could because the grasp on world is very strong The grasp on scene. 11:46.267 --> 11:50.411 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it needs a more work So I was definitely like pulled out a number of times. 11:50.871 --> 11:56.297 [SPEAKER_00]: I also I think this is really interesting because Rain this character rain again. 11:56.357 --> 11:59.820 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't understand who they were particular I didn't know if they were like 11:59.800 --> 12:02.764 [SPEAKER_00]: a son, a stepson, a general. 12:03.005 --> 12:07.311 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not understand who rain was, but rain did not like the humans. 12:08.312 --> 12:12.318 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really liked when we got a little bit of friction between the didn't trust them. 12:12.338 --> 12:13.360 [SPEAKER_00]: And why does any trust them? 12:13.500 --> 12:14.962 [SPEAKER_00]: That was really, really well done. 12:15.322 --> 12:17.766 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also didn't know if rain was an orc or an elf. 12:17.786 --> 12:22.152 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming rain was an elf because they were in the elf, you know, castle. 12:22.573 --> 12:23.033 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know. 12:23.054 --> 12:27.580 [SPEAKER_00]: I just didn't understand their relationship to how they felt about 12:28.083 --> 12:28.583 [SPEAKER_00]: everything. 12:28.664 --> 12:42.837 [SPEAKER_00]: I also didn't understand how old rain was and if we're centering somebody named rain, clearly they're very important in this story, but was rain just a figure to get us to the scene where the baby is born, who is the princess, who will have all the powers. 12:43.377 --> 12:56.149 [SPEAKER_00]: So I again, I didn't really understand who I'm supposed to be focusing on in particular, and because we had such an emphasis on our character named rain, I just assume they're going to have a lot more to do with it, which is why I want a lot more 12:57.057 --> 13:00.148 [SPEAKER_00]: internal reaction to how he felt about everything. 13:00.736 --> 13:04.019 [SPEAKER_00]: because at one point they said, Argo looked up, he looked his years. 13:04.099 --> 13:06.742 [SPEAKER_00]: He had not slept for days, none of them had. 13:07.202 --> 13:28.583 [SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of made a note, maybe this is an opportunity to kind of establish something, like Rayne hadn't seen him this tired since the rebellion five years ago, and then did it, did it, did it, right, we get into some contextualization of this relationship because I think a prologue that leaves too many questions is a failed prologue because the goal of prologue is obviously 13:28.563 --> 13:41.419 [SPEAKER_00]: establish some excitement or energy or what's to come or tease something a little bit but when we're teasing everything that how is a prologue doing justice to the story that it's trying to tell. 13:41.459 --> 13:49.710 [SPEAKER_00]: So that was the part where I was just lost about how this was in service to the larger story because it is a lot of premise and obviously the reason 13:49.690 --> 14:13.215 [SPEAKER_00]: That we're focusing on this is obviously because the baby is being born, and obviously that's very important because she is our princess Another reason that I think this is still like nascent stages of a draft is when there's dialogue happening There's a lot of repeating the character's name in the dialogue Which it is just one of my pet peeves, so maybe it was standing up to me, but it would say you know how is she may? 14:13.336 --> 14:17.520 [SPEAKER_00]: Are go ask she is battling my king she's in lots of pain, but it should be over soon 14:18.243 --> 14:20.566 [SPEAKER_00]: Argo opened the door and jestered for May to step aside. 14:20.626 --> 14:22.768 [SPEAKER_00]: Wait here, Rain, he said, I will call you in. 14:23.109 --> 14:23.749 [SPEAKER_00]: Just a lot of that. 14:23.769 --> 14:27.894 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we know everybody that's in the scenes, we don't always have to say who's in the scene or address them. 14:28.194 --> 14:31.378 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, if there's the formality with the king piece, that makes sense to me. 14:31.899 --> 14:40.028 [SPEAKER_00]: But addressing everybody by their name, while we have the dialogue tag, and we understand who's all in the scene, is one of my pennies, but that could just be me. 14:40.529 --> 14:43.592 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so then we jump to chapter one. 14:43.808 --> 14:45.751 [SPEAKER_00]: This person sent us a very long sample. 14:45.851 --> 14:49.256 [SPEAKER_00]: I will give them not a slap on the wrist, but they did send us like seven pages. 14:49.616 --> 14:52.780 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was because they wanted the prologue and then they wanted to give us the chapter one. 14:52.861 --> 14:56.445 [SPEAKER_00]: So I understand why they did that, but it is longer than the five pages. 14:57.247 --> 15:02.854 [SPEAKER_00]: So when we jump to chapter one crossing the border, we are with Violet and Arena. 15:03.135 --> 15:08.382 [SPEAKER_00]: And Arena is the Princess Baby character that is supposedly born in. 15:08.598 --> 15:09.159 [SPEAKER_00]: the prologue. 15:09.962 --> 15:16.539 [SPEAKER_00]: And it says 17 years later, but these pages felt very young to me, which actually worried me a little bit. 15:16.980 --> 15:17.983 [SPEAKER_00]: Because 15:18.959 --> 15:26.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Like they're talking about, yeah, hurry up, we're late, come look at this and then she says, if it's another ant carrying food, I'm gonna be mad. 15:26.967 --> 15:28.409 [SPEAKER_00]: That felt very young to me. 15:28.529 --> 15:29.890 [SPEAKER_00]: What is it that you want sort of look at? 15:29.950 --> 15:33.234 [SPEAKER_00]: Like ants and bugs felt like so young and juvenile to me. 15:33.254 --> 15:36.257 [SPEAKER_00]: So I worried a little bit with this being a YA novel. 15:36.577 --> 15:39.320 [SPEAKER_00]: That felt like a very young scene to me. 15:39.400 --> 15:47.008 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just wanna flag that, just kind of making sure that we are at the YA level here with these characters and where they are. 15:46.988 --> 15:49.953 [SPEAKER_00]: But I will stop there, and I will turn it over to you guys. 15:50.614 --> 15:51.275 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, Kali. 15:51.675 --> 15:52.196 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you see. 15:52.837 --> 15:55.161 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to say it's not a pet peeve, Carly. 15:55.201 --> 15:56.222 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to diagnose you. 15:56.282 --> 16:03.934 [SPEAKER_01]: It's your agent brain going this is still green, because when you repeat names in dialogue often, 16:03.914 --> 16:08.222 [SPEAKER_01]: That is 100% a my dialog is still being worked chopped. 16:08.723 --> 16:13.733 [SPEAKER_01]: That's something I recommend most writers do, like take your dialog and actually cut as much as possible. 16:14.093 --> 16:18.482 [SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you can even cut every other line, which is a screenwriting technique, but again, we talk about names. 16:18.943 --> 16:21.788 [SPEAKER_01]: It is one of those things where you can tell, this is still green. 16:22.240 --> 16:24.223 [SPEAKER_02]: Can I just interject there? 16:24.243 --> 16:33.195 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I want to say that in the last year, I've read like three novels by well-established authors who are extremely well-known and they do it too. 16:34.277 --> 16:39.244 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm like, this is not a green author because they shouldn't have better and it is a should have done something. 16:39.605 --> 16:41.107 [SPEAKER_02]: So it is a pickpeam of mine. 16:41.447 --> 16:42.148 [SPEAKER_01]: 100%. 16:42.569 --> 16:43.650 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's fair. 16:44.051 --> 16:47.215 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I also think a lot of authors go, but hey, I'm reading these novels. 16:47.235 --> 16:47.796 [SPEAKER_01]: They're doing it. 16:47.836 --> 16:48.417 [SPEAKER_01]: Why can't I? 16:48.697 --> 16:49.879 [SPEAKER_01]: You're held to a higher standard. 16:49.919 --> 16:50.560 [SPEAKER_01]: That's why. 16:50.540 --> 16:52.405 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the reality of publishing people. 16:53.307 --> 16:56.956 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel very strongly, I've said this before, this is a hill I will die on. 16:57.979 --> 17:07.283 [SPEAKER_01]: Never begin your book, never, with direct thoughts in a 17:07.718 --> 17:10.161 [SPEAKER_01]: Seriously, we're already inside the protagonist's head. 17:10.482 --> 17:12.865 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no reason for you to do the direct thoughts in italics. 17:13.326 --> 17:19.334 [SPEAKER_01]: Just have it be rain was in the eye of the storm, where they were in the eye of the storm period. 17:19.354 --> 17:20.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, you don't need a direct thoughts. 17:20.616 --> 17:21.858 [SPEAKER_01]: It's completely unnecessary. 17:22.398 --> 17:23.720 [SPEAKER_01]: It is not something that is wrong. 17:24.061 --> 17:25.102 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a CC problem. 17:25.362 --> 17:26.124 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just letting you know. 17:26.564 --> 17:29.108 [SPEAKER_01]: We are in rain's head for the prologue. 17:29.468 --> 17:31.191 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think rain is a main character, though. 17:31.631 --> 17:36.578 [SPEAKER_01]: Just based on the query letter, I don't think rain is. 17:36.777 --> 17:45.859 [SPEAKER_01]: because they wanted the book to begin with the baby being born and the mother, which was very heartbreaking, having to give the baby up, right, to be raised by humans. 17:46.733 --> 17:50.959 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think the author was like, I'm gonna choose Rain's point of view to do that, which is fair. 17:51.419 --> 18:00.231 [SPEAKER_01]: If they had started with the mother, then we would have all been like totally broken because the woman was giving birth and having to give up her baby and it would have been the most depressing thing I've ever read. 18:01.032 --> 18:04.056 [SPEAKER_01]: If they had started with the king, maybe the king has too much power. 18:04.076 --> 18:08.061 [SPEAKER_01]: So like I get it, I get why you chose Rain at the same time. 18:08.081 --> 18:10.424 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if there isn't another option. 18:10.764 --> 18:15.070 [SPEAKER_01]: If there isn't an option of like, an omniscient bird type prologue, 18:15.050 --> 18:21.022 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're going to go inside, rain's head just for the prologue, then really go inside rain's head. 18:21.503 --> 18:29.579 [SPEAKER_01]: Because right now, and Carly mentioned this, the king tells rain, it's done, which is the most tragic thing they can hear in that moment. 18:29.879 --> 18:33.046 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's no emotional reaction from rain, no interiority. 18:33.587 --> 18:35.691 [SPEAKER_01]: Rain speaks, and he moves. 18:36.498 --> 18:38.100 [SPEAKER_01]: but he has no internal reaction. 18:38.140 --> 18:38.901 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're reading a book. 18:39.081 --> 18:41.064 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm supposed to feel someone's internal reaction. 18:41.604 --> 18:45.129 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the king, by the way, is teasing rain, apparently. 18:45.169 --> 18:47.191 [SPEAKER_01]: The king's like, no, no, but there is hope. 18:47.852 --> 18:54.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, now rain's hard to suppose to soar, because there's hope, or maybe he has a relationship with hope that's like, no, no, he won't let himself hope. 18:55.061 --> 18:57.344 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, because hope has led to too much heartbreak in his life. 18:57.464 --> 18:57.824 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 18:58.265 --> 19:01.729 [SPEAKER_01]: But the point is, there's a pinball effect in storytelling. 19:01.709 --> 19:08.317 [SPEAKER_01]: which is when you have a character say something to another character, there needs to be a reaction from your protagonist, from the person who's head you're in. 19:09.058 --> 19:24.358 [SPEAKER_01]: And when your protagonist says something, they need to be interpreting the other character's reaction, their face, their eyes, their body movements, they need to be imagining what they're thinking, and that pinball effect is what makes a book a book. 19:24.608 --> 19:38.783 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so important that as the author, you really, really direct us with a lot of intentionality in a tight, precise, very curiosity-inducing way is a hard thing to do, but it's something you have to do. 19:38.823 --> 19:45.630 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, again, maybe we have to be in this person's head, but if we are, then you really need to go in. 19:46.992 --> 19:52.017 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say this, the idea of a book where the main character, I'm assuming she's the main character. 19:52.233 --> 19:54.997 [SPEAKER_01]: is an elf that was raised by humans, that I love. 19:55.798 --> 19:58.342 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that, I think is super original, super fun. 19:58.943 --> 20:00.244 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like outside or eat. 20:00.725 --> 20:05.091 [SPEAKER_01]: It opens up a whole bunch of possibilities for power and balances, for, you know, messy dynamics. 20:05.192 --> 20:05.852 [SPEAKER_01]: That's brilliant. 20:06.714 --> 20:09.678 [SPEAKER_01]: But your chapter one, and Grinch hat, should I get my Grinch hat. 20:10.018 --> 20:14.004 [SPEAKER_01]: Your chapter one, it's just not as curiosity and do things as it needs to be, you know? 20:14.224 --> 20:16.047 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's these two girls, just being. 20:16.313 --> 20:25.606 [SPEAKER_01]: And I know there's a lot of advice out there that says, chapter one should be a snapshot of your protagonist's life before the inciting incident, the status quo. 20:26.269 --> 20:28.095 [SPEAKER_01]: So the inciting incident can disrupt. 20:28.379 --> 20:31.544 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's that a school still needs to be interesting curiosity inducing. 20:31.564 --> 20:34.388 [SPEAKER_01]: It can't just be another day, like a random day. 20:34.669 --> 20:37.052 [SPEAKER_01]: I've had a lot of writers tell me, but hey, C.C. 20:37.213 --> 20:38.755 [SPEAKER_01]: in this book isn't it another day? 20:38.795 --> 20:41.479 [SPEAKER_01]: And I go and I read the book and I'm like, no, it's not just another day. 20:41.940 --> 20:45.145 [SPEAKER_01]: This is why it's a really curiosity inducing moment in the story. 20:45.525 --> 20:49.932 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that advice leads to a lot of bad beginnings, wrong beginnings, maybe? 20:50.433 --> 20:51.715 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what's happening here. 20:51.735 --> 20:52.276 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 20:52.296 --> 20:56.462 [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to ask this author, who is your protagonist? 20:56.442 --> 20:57.363 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, is it the princess? 20:57.383 --> 20:59.284 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is, but I don't know. 20:59.304 --> 21:04.149 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's something to think about, but I definitely think you have an interesting hook. 21:04.389 --> 21:07.812 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just still in the early draft stage in my view. 21:08.472 --> 21:09.613 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, CC. 21:10.194 --> 21:10.894 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, everybody. 21:10.934 --> 21:13.156 [SPEAKER_02]: Next week, we're back with another author interview. 21:13.537 --> 21:15.839 [SPEAKER_02]: And two weeks after that, we're back to books with hooks. 21:15.999 --> 21:25.487 [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to submit your work, you can go on to the show about writing, go to the books with hooks tab and you can submit it there. 21:25.889 --> 21:30.675 [SPEAKER_02]: CCLera is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. 21:30.695 --> 21:38.384 [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to query CC, please refer to the Submission Guidelines at www.wshoman.com. 21:39.065 --> 21:47.695 [SPEAKER_02]: Carly Waters is a literary agent at PS Literary Agency, but a work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency. 21:47.675 --> 22:01.498 [SPEAKER_02]: and the views expressed by Kali on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS literary agency.