WEBVTT 00:13.598 --> 00:17.424 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, welcome back to this episode of The Overcomeers. 00:18.426 --> 00:23.234 [SPEAKER_00]: I am back with the beautiful Lauren Chandler, except she is in the hot seat now. 00:23.755 --> 00:27.421 [SPEAKER_00]: Last time we were together, I was sitting there, you were sitting in the power seat. 00:28.303 --> 00:29.004 [SPEAKER_01]: I was at what that is. 00:29.024 --> 00:31.148 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, it's the one asking the questions. 00:32.230 --> 00:39.522 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so, um, gonna spend some time talking with Lauren very different testimony than mine, but a testimony, 00:39.502 --> 00:49.698 [SPEAKER_00]: Man, I hear a lot, and I see a lot, and so I'm hoping that you'll find your heart encouraged in this episode of The Upper Comers, and I get to hang out with my favorite person. 00:50.279 --> 00:50.840 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 00:50.860 --> 00:52.283 [SPEAKER_00]: I see. 00:52.303 --> 00:55.828 [SPEAKER_00]: I have nicknames for one of those is L.C. 00:56.109 --> 01:01.257 [SPEAKER_00]: Lauren Chandler, but often times when I say that people are like, I don't know, her name was L.C. 01:01.237 --> 01:05.245 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, no, no, no, it's a nickname, it's it's love, it's just me loving. 01:05.265 --> 01:08.191 [SPEAKER_01]: You give everybody nickname, whether they want it or not. 01:08.231 --> 01:11.277 [SPEAKER_00]: It's true, and it's not, wait, it's you're not interviewing anybody. 01:11.377 --> 01:17.811 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not, I need you to, need you to receive the question here, and turn it in on me, sis. 01:18.332 --> 01:20.055 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, let's, um, 01:20.035 --> 01:26.264 [SPEAKER_00]: yet let's let's talk a little about you growing up, you are like good girl. 01:26.784 --> 01:27.946 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:27.966 --> 01:28.807 [SPEAKER_00]: Would that be fair? 01:28.847 --> 01:30.309 [SPEAKER_00]: Would that be how you framed it? 01:30.349 --> 01:31.050 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 01:31.070 --> 01:46.431 [SPEAKER_01]: I was first born child to two parents who really wanted to like do their family differently than what they experienced growing up and I am so grateful to both of them for 01:46.411 --> 02:13.043 [SPEAKER_01]: wanting to raise a family that loved and honored God that loved one another that were committed to each other forever and so I was born into that and you know as you've preached and the Bible teaches we are not born these you know these clean 02:13.023 --> 02:14.065 [SPEAKER_01]: something. 02:14.466 --> 02:20.817 [SPEAKER_01]: And I would say my bent was towards being a good girl and you would think, oh, yeah, that's great. 02:21.017 --> 02:22.279 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're a good girl. 02:22.760 --> 02:23.902 [SPEAKER_01]: You want to do things right. 02:23.962 --> 02:24.723 [SPEAKER_01]: You want the A. 02:24.763 --> 02:27.729 [SPEAKER_01]: You want the Pat on the back. 02:28.410 --> 02:32.517 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that probably feels good as a parent to have one of those. 02:33.138 --> 02:36.925 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure I would know, but we love our kids. 02:36.965 --> 02:37.506 [SPEAKER_01]: They're awesome. 02:39.009 --> 02:50.351 [SPEAKER_01]: But it definitely came from this desire to not be weak, to have all the answers, to not have anything wrong with me. 02:50.391 --> 02:53.998 [SPEAKER_01]: I could 02:54.704 --> 03:00.272 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I knew how to articulate that at that age, but looking back. 03:00.493 --> 03:04.458 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's there was some kind of safety in being a good girl. 03:04.478 --> 03:06.922 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of wanted to please my parents. 03:07.583 --> 03:09.245 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to please my teachers. 03:09.826 --> 03:11.869 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to make all the good grades. 03:12.350 --> 03:17.698 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to be the star student at church in Sunday school. 03:18.239 --> 03:20.442 [SPEAKER_01]: And youth group, you know. 03:20.422 --> 03:23.186 [SPEAKER_01]: that's who I wanted to be. 03:23.446 --> 03:28.694 [SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't, I don't even think it was my parents, but that on me, I just, I wanted it. 03:29.074 --> 03:31.037 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a self-motivating thing. 03:31.338 --> 03:32.339 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to be good. 03:32.399 --> 03:39.169 [SPEAKER_01]: The problem with that is we really can't be good without Jesus, not to our core. 03:39.329 --> 03:45.518 [SPEAKER_01]: We will even being good is a way to not 03:45.498 --> 03:47.465 [SPEAKER_01]: but it was, I was a good girl. 03:47.505 --> 03:55.153 [SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to be good, I did not want a flaw. 03:56.534 --> 03:59.457 [SPEAKER_00]: And that played itself out, really in every arena, right? 03:59.477 --> 04:07.947 [SPEAKER_00]: Like you're like, even still you are bent toward the rules in a way that I am bent away from. 04:08.147 --> 04:09.228 [SPEAKER_00]: It's Augustinian, baby. 04:09.288 --> 04:11.491 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an unjust law is no law at all. 04:11.511 --> 04:13.193 [SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what goes on in me. 04:13.213 --> 04:19.740 [SPEAKER_00]: And growing up, you were whether it was school or church or parents or even 04:19.720 --> 04:25.412 [SPEAKER_00]: like even other adults who might have been in a place of authority. 04:25.472 --> 04:26.314 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 04:26.334 --> 04:33.810 [SPEAKER_00]: The driver was, is it fair to say conformity or was it different than conformity? 04:33.970 --> 04:36.295 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say I wanted to 04:38.266 --> 04:48.100 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to, it was more just like pleasing and achieving and yeah, it was more pleasing. 04:48.341 --> 04:49.602 [SPEAKER_01]: Not even conformity. 04:49.622 --> 04:52.466 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like a chest wanted it. 04:53.087 --> 04:56.472 [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to be the good student. 04:56.673 --> 04:59.076 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted the acclamation. 04:59.056 --> 05:03.668 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted the pat on the back sort of thing. 05:03.729 --> 05:04.932 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 05:04.952 --> 05:05.573 [SPEAKER_00]: And you got that. 05:05.714 --> 05:06.295 [SPEAKER_01]: And I got it. 05:06.396 --> 05:07.098 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I did. 05:07.358 --> 05:08.461 [SPEAKER_01]: I got the A's. 05:09.063 --> 05:10.286 [SPEAKER_01]: I got the awards. 05:10.366 --> 05:12.492 [SPEAKER_01]: I got the notice. 05:13.653 --> 05:18.220 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that all it did was feed the monster. 05:18.240 --> 05:18.400 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 05:19.302 --> 05:20.844 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's an insatiable. 05:21.245 --> 05:21.485 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 05:21.665 --> 05:22.907 [SPEAKER_00]: You're saying it's an insatiable. 05:23.147 --> 05:24.149 [SPEAKER_01]: It is insatiable. 05:24.590 --> 05:38.631 [SPEAKER_00]: And would it be, would you call it kind of like primary idol of your life is to be like I'm wondering, is it, do you want to win or do you want to be the good girl? 05:38.611 --> 05:40.073 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 05:40.093 --> 05:40.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 05:40.213 --> 05:42.336 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are those synonyms for you. 05:42.496 --> 05:43.017 [SPEAKER_00]: Are they lied? 05:43.338 --> 05:45.100 [SPEAKER_00]: No, we need is being. 05:45.120 --> 05:48.645 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think probably then it was to be the good girl was winning. 05:48.685 --> 05:50.928 [SPEAKER_01]: And I did, I do want to win. 05:51.228 --> 05:56.396 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that is definitely in me to win. 05:56.456 --> 05:58.218 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you, you know, the adage? 05:58.599 --> 06:01.783 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you like to win or do you hate to lose? 06:02.675 --> 06:03.596 [SPEAKER_01]: You know that. 06:03.616 --> 06:05.259 [SPEAKER_00]: I do, but I want them for you. 06:05.439 --> 06:06.640 [SPEAKER_01]: I hate to lose. 06:06.681 --> 06:07.361 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 06:07.382 --> 06:10.306 [SPEAKER_00]: So how how strange your game nights at our house? 06:11.487 --> 06:12.148 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they can get firey, huh? 06:12.168 --> 06:13.230 [SPEAKER_00]: They get real firey. 06:13.250 --> 06:13.570 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 06:13.590 --> 06:21.521 [SPEAKER_00]: But if we don't around, you have, oh my gosh, so much, so much, so much sanctification in the last 26 years, so much sanctification. 06:22.222 --> 06:30.133 [SPEAKER_00]: So when did you, I mean, gosh, when did you realize, oh, man, this is actually, this is not a good thing. 06:30.603 --> 06:50.147 [SPEAKER_00]: uh... because even when we first met like you you've said it like all the acclaim all the praise all the so proud of like all of that is woven into your life and so how do you start to become aware oh actually this is an idol this isn't 06:50.127 --> 06:51.849 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not a good thing. 06:51.989 --> 06:59.458 [SPEAKER_00]: This is harming me in my soul in some ways, or maybe I'm not using the right word. 06:59.478 --> 07:01.161 [SPEAKER_00]: You're right, okay. 07:01.181 --> 07:02.302 [SPEAKER_00]: So how do you wake up to that? 07:03.063 --> 07:05.706 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it took a while to wake up to it. 07:06.627 --> 07:12.414 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the first places I felt it was our marriage where I couldn't get the A in a sense. 07:12.434 --> 07:13.355 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I could not. 07:15.598 --> 07:17.080 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know how 07:17.954 --> 07:24.049 [SPEAKER_01]: to be a good wife and you're a fault and it went completely my fault. 07:24.190 --> 07:28.200 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like our baggage that we've talked about on here before. 07:28.619 --> 07:37.909 [SPEAKER_01]: where I just, that was part of our problem was I was trying to get the A in marriage when that's just not how relationships work. 07:39.931 --> 07:43.175 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a bit transactional and one dimensional. 07:43.756 --> 07:49.402 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not, it's not messy and vulnerable and exposed. 07:49.422 --> 07:54.087 [SPEAKER_01]: So that, those are, that was one of the places 07:54.067 --> 07:55.108 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't working. 07:55.208 --> 08:04.980 [SPEAKER_01]: My strategy of pleasing and getting it right and performing was not getting me the results that I wanted. 08:05.040 --> 08:18.376 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it may be in other areas of my life like when it comes to music, I wouldn't get, maybe I would get the acclaim, but it was never satisfying. 08:18.716 --> 08:21.880 [SPEAKER_01]: Long enough. 08:21.860 --> 08:36.915 [SPEAKER_01]: I've always had this, okay, I'll know I'm good enough when, and so I would say in our marriage when it came to music, leading worship, singing, and even just in life in general, 08:37.807 --> 08:51.266 [SPEAKER_01]: I would just get really frustrated with myself when I felt like I did not come through on something that I didn't achieve what I thought I would or perform at a level that was satisfying to me. 08:51.286 --> 08:55.813 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know what to do with that. 08:56.894 --> 09:04.665 [SPEAKER_01]: And so yeah, that's when I started waking up to, okay, this is unsustainable. 09:04.705 --> 09:07.189 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I can't do this. 09:07.169 --> 09:36.012 [SPEAKER_01]: And the, I think the tipping point for me was in the area of music, when I had had this, I'll know I'm good enough when, and I had that moment where I had an opportunity to fulfill the win, like I was like, I know I'm good enough if I get to do this, and I got to do that thing, and it was like singing with someone that I really looked 09:35.992 --> 09:43.749 [SPEAKER_01]: wanted to impress and wanted to be like and all the things and I did it and it was a recording. 09:43.769 --> 09:51.486 [SPEAKER_01]: I listened back to it when the the we got the recordings back and I hated how I sounded. 09:51.546 --> 09:53.811 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like that's terrible. 09:54.031 --> 09:54.372 [SPEAKER_01]: Like 09:54.554 --> 09:55.515 [SPEAKER_01]: to not like it. 09:55.656 --> 10:02.886 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh my gosh, I thought that if I was invited to do this, it would prove that I'm good enough. 10:03.026 --> 10:03.887 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I would do it. 10:03.948 --> 10:05.229 [SPEAKER_01]: And it would sound good enough. 10:06.251 --> 10:06.351 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 10:06.371 --> 10:24.477 [SPEAKER_01]: And I realized it was almost like a body dysmorphia thing that people can experience where what I was experiencing and seeing and hearing was not what I felt like other people were experiencing and hearing 10:24.457 --> 10:41.942 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we were going through a Bible study with a group of women all young, with young kids, babies, being disabled by a woman who was a little bit older than us, a little further ahead in life. 10:41.922 --> 10:43.564 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're doing a Bethmore Bible study. 10:43.584 --> 10:45.426 [SPEAKER_01]: It was, I think, believing God. 10:45.486 --> 10:53.755 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember Beth on the screen said, gave this invitation. 10:53.815 --> 11:04.167 [SPEAKER_01]: She said, she described this moment when the Israelites are about to cross from the wilderness into the Promised Land. 11:04.147 --> 11:19.202 [SPEAKER_01]: and the waters are parted in the river, Jordan, and they're about to cross over, and in the dry river bed, the Lord instructs them to take a stone of remembrance, take it to the other side, and like, 11:19.182 --> 11:23.547 [SPEAKER_01]: build an altar to tell your kids, your generations behind you. 11:23.567 --> 11:25.389 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what God did for us. 11:26.390 --> 11:44.008 [SPEAKER_01]: She said some of you are in the middle of that dry river bed and you've got the stone in your hands and you're looking back at the wilderness at Egypt and you're like, I know it's slavery, I know it's wandering but at least I know what to expect and you're looking longingly back at it. 11:43.988 --> 11:52.419 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you're looking across to the promised land and you know it's freedom, it's a future, but it's the unknown and it's scary. 11:53.280 --> 11:54.822 [SPEAKER_01]: And you're frozen and fear. 11:55.122 --> 11:58.026 [SPEAKER_01]: And she said, take that rock and move on. 11:58.046 --> 12:02.772 [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought something my spirit just like left with in me. 12:03.293 --> 12:04.935 [SPEAKER_01]: Or I was like, I want to move on. 12:05.035 --> 12:07.178 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I feel like I've been 12:07.158 --> 12:13.867 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm standing in the middle of this driver of bed, the Lord's backing me, backing me to move forward. 12:14.388 --> 12:30.510 [SPEAKER_01]: But man, I'm looking back at the slavery in the wilderness or in Egypt, in the wandering and the wilderness where I was enslaved to doing, trying to do everything in my own power, to do it right, to get it right, to prove that I was worthy of God's love. 12:30.530 --> 12:32.473 [SPEAKER_01]: I was, um, 12:32.453 --> 12:41.868 [SPEAKER_01]: dissatisfied like the wandering generation like in the desert where sometimes I would get what I wanted and it was never enough. 12:41.928 --> 12:43.571 [SPEAKER_01]: It was never satisfying. 12:43.611 --> 12:47.637 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I was looking back on that and I was like, I know what that is. 12:47.737 --> 12:48.639 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels comfortable. 12:48.659 --> 12:51.083 [SPEAKER_01]: It's what I've known but I don't want it anymore. 12:51.123 --> 12:52.605 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to move on. 12:53.227 --> 13:04.101 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, I remember being in tears and in our leader, Mari, praying for me, and later that week, we had celebrate recovery at church. 13:04.722 --> 13:09.428 [SPEAKER_01]: You'd invited the whole church to come out and see it and then see what celebrate recoveries about. 13:10.550 --> 13:12.492 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember going to that meeting with you. 13:12.612 --> 13:18.340 [SPEAKER_01]: And I had just this like hope that maybe there was something there for me. 13:19.214 --> 13:38.328 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was sitting, I think we were sitting on the front row, front right, and Michael Snatser is teaching, and he taught this beautiful message about, he gave this illustration of this man that wanted to plant a garden that there are all these weeds in the garden, and so he tried to pull all the weeds up, and he couldn't. 13:38.428 --> 13:41.914 [SPEAKER_01]: He tried to mow over them, and they'd pop back up. 13:41.894 --> 13:47.445 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember thinking, yes, like that's me, all these weeds in my life, for I feel like I just can't get it together. 13:47.485 --> 13:48.567 [SPEAKER_01]: Can't up pull it together. 13:48.587 --> 13:49.529 [SPEAKER_01]: Can't maintain it. 13:49.589 --> 13:50.751 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so tired. 13:52.214 --> 14:00.510 [SPEAKER_01]: And he invited anyone who that resonated with to just come and surrender that to the Lord that you can't do it on your own. 14:00.810 --> 14:01.532 [SPEAKER_01]: It's impossible. 14:01.572 --> 14:04.898 [SPEAKER_01]: You'll never admit to any can't, but Jesus can't. 14:05.266 --> 14:08.714 [SPEAKER_01]: And I remember, I was like, I want our Westerner. 14:08.935 --> 14:10.037 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the freedom I want. 14:10.057 --> 14:12.263 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so tired of trying to do this on my own. 14:12.283 --> 14:18.718 [SPEAKER_01]: And, but here I was, 20, I don't know, seven. 14:18.833 --> 14:27.226 [SPEAKER_01]: and the lead pastor's wife sitting on the front row and they offer this this surrender chip. 14:27.846 --> 14:36.960 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a blue poker chip and I they they offer it to whoever wants to surrender a part of their lives. 14:36.940 --> 14:43.087 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to go up there so badly, but I had that fear of what other people would think. 14:43.388 --> 14:51.177 [SPEAKER_01]: The fear that was choking the life out of me for as long as I could remember was trying to choke the life out of that moment. 14:51.978 --> 15:06.475 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I, the moment passed by and they went on to the next chip, you know, one month of sobriety or surrender and I was just regretting that I did not stand up. 15:06.455 --> 15:11.644 [SPEAKER_01]: And then finally at the end, they give another opportunity to grab this rounder chip. 15:11.744 --> 15:14.168 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just could have flown up there. 15:14.509 --> 15:18.976 [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing was going to keep me from getting that dad game chip. 15:18.996 --> 15:20.920 [SPEAKER_01]: Because I was like, I'm too tired. 15:21.160 --> 15:23.003 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm too tired to care what people think. 15:23.163 --> 15:25.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm too tired of living in fear. 15:25.844 --> 15:34.501 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I went up there and I took that chip and I hugged the woman that was up there and I felt like just a thousand pounds came off my shoulders. 15:34.601 --> 15:45.642 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was the beginning of realizing like it wasn't working and I needed I needed something else and 15:45.622 --> 15:50.668 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, that first steps are did the 12 steps of recovery. 15:50.688 --> 15:51.869 [SPEAKER_01]: I loved it. 15:52.109 --> 16:15.156 [SPEAKER_01]: I did all the, um, the like little mantra is that they say at the, you know, um, I forget them now, the all the, the ones that they kind of fashion from AA and then added Jesus to it because Jesus really is the greater power and, and a lot of those steps 16:15.136 --> 16:22.569 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, just that first step of I am powerless was life-changing for me. 16:22.649 --> 16:24.032 [SPEAKER_01]: And I grown up in the church. 16:24.272 --> 16:29.642 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I knew the Bible, Agonda Sunday School, I really believed a had a relationship with Jesus. 16:29.782 --> 16:35.592 [SPEAKER_01]: I know I did, but I couldn't understand grace very well because I didn't need it. 16:35.572 --> 16:39.178 [SPEAKER_01]: In my mind, I was like, I'm doing okay, you know, I'm a good girl. 16:39.198 --> 16:42.504 [SPEAKER_01]: I love Jesus, you know, I know Bible verses. 16:43.165 --> 16:44.086 [SPEAKER_01]: I was not perfect. 16:44.527 --> 16:45.629 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I had my moment. 16:45.649 --> 16:53.522 [SPEAKER_01]: That was a typical teenager, but it was then when life was no longer working for me. 16:54.523 --> 17:01.495 [SPEAKER_01]: That I was like, I can't do this and it was a relief to realize I was I was powerless. 17:02.504 --> 17:11.578 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious at how your relationship with the Lord was affected by kind of the expectations of others. 17:11.618 --> 17:26.520 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, did you always just think you were doing well enough that you and the Lord were cool or was there some distance between you and the Lord because it's an interesting dynamic to me in that 17:26.500 --> 17:41.142 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're on the surface, kind of the kid that every parent wants, the friend, every woman wants, the, yeah, you've got all those pieces to the public eye. 17:41.162 --> 17:45.589 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm, I'm, I'm curious, usually. 17:45.569 --> 18:11.442 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it is that awareness of brokenness that moves us towards the Lord and so on curious if in your mind, and this would have to be seen in reverse, and then in regards to intimacy with the Lord and nearness and a feeling of his pleasure and grace and was that. 18:11.422 --> 18:14.085 [SPEAKER_00]: muted during all of the social media. 18:14.125 --> 18:15.146 [SPEAKER_01]: It was definitely there. 18:15.246 --> 18:16.547 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what's so interesting. 18:16.747 --> 18:18.208 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you always had a hunger for it. 18:18.389 --> 18:19.710 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, always did. 18:19.730 --> 18:31.881 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, like even before I made a profession of faith or, you know, was baptized because I'd grown up in a home that we went to church. 18:32.422 --> 18:38.728 [SPEAKER_01]: And we belong to church. 18:38.708 --> 18:42.171 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that was part of it and then I kind of feel like I had 18:43.636 --> 18:51.764 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't, you know, I do believe there was a moment of salvation, but I had an awareness that Jesus was real and he was near. 18:53.065 --> 18:55.648 [SPEAKER_01]: And I usually found that out in nature. 18:56.249 --> 19:02.114 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I just always had this hunger for God and an awareness that he was real. 19:02.134 --> 19:10.723 [SPEAKER_01]: I think what it did is I didn't understand the concept of grace well at all. 19:10.703 --> 19:14.289 [SPEAKER_01]: and because I felt like I could achieve it. 19:14.569 --> 19:18.536 [SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted nearness with them, but I felt like I had to earn it. 19:18.556 --> 19:21.701 [SPEAKER_01]: I had to be, does that make sense? 19:21.721 --> 19:22.322 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no one. 19:22.342 --> 19:23.023 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it does. 19:23.043 --> 19:26.869 [SPEAKER_01]: So yes, I think it was muted during those years. 19:27.310 --> 19:36.745 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember when I met you and you were preaching at this camp and 19:36.725 --> 19:42.352 [SPEAKER_01]: You knew the Bible a lot more than I did and I hated that, but not like it was a good jealousy. 19:42.412 --> 19:45.776 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it was like, I, oh my gosh, I want that. 19:45.996 --> 19:50.302 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I who knows it more or no, you still know I'm just invested. 19:50.342 --> 19:58.832 [SPEAKER_00]: My gosh, you've had more, I mean, because I was, yeah, is it because you're so much, it's my job to know the Bible. 19:59.393 --> 20:03.458 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess you could probably, you could probably argue that in some ways. 20:03.438 --> 20:26.172 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, were there places, yeah, you like, yeah, I'm genuinely asking, I didn't experience and you, I didn't experience you this way in that season where were there opportunities or things that were in your heart in that season that you wouldn't move on because you weren't sure you could get the A. 20:26.725 --> 20:27.005 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. 20:27.025 --> 20:27.946 [SPEAKER_01]: That was me all the time. 20:27.986 --> 20:28.607 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 20:28.627 --> 20:30.809 [SPEAKER_01]: Anything that I didn't think I could nail. 20:30.829 --> 20:31.830 [SPEAKER_01]: You know. 20:31.850 --> 20:32.211 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 20:32.231 --> 20:41.560 [SPEAKER_01]: But then there were some things that I felt like I did try even though I didn't feel like you're not risk averse. 20:41.660 --> 20:42.281 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not. 20:42.781 --> 20:44.623 [SPEAKER_00]: But I have experienced. 20:45.204 --> 20:54.353 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want you to tell me what you know. 20:55.362 --> 21:03.855 [SPEAKER_00]: I think where I could watch you get stuck on things where in the creative process there's always that. 21:04.236 --> 21:13.911 [SPEAKER_00]: The high of a great idea and then the reality of bringing that idea to life and I could watch in those early years, the idea died. 21:13.891 --> 21:14.413 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 21:14.433 --> 21:16.178 [SPEAKER_00]: Where you would have this grand. 21:16.258 --> 21:16.940 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to do this. 21:16.980 --> 21:21.694 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to get this and then when it looked like it wasn't going exactly like you wanted it. 21:22.035 --> 21:22.236 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 21:22.276 --> 21:27.772 [SPEAKER_00]: Then then all of a sudden loss of heart and maybe the whole thing stopped. 21:28.093 --> 21:28.795 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think. 21:30.395 --> 21:44.639 [SPEAKER_01]: the inner critic in me is very real and I for the first time heard the concept of growth mindset when Reed had his sixth grade band concert. 21:44.699 --> 21:46.242 [SPEAKER_00]: Really, that's the first time you heard of. 21:46.542 --> 21:48.365 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it was on the back. 21:48.646 --> 21:49.567 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember that. 21:49.667 --> 21:50.529 [SPEAKER_00]: I totally remember it. 21:50.549 --> 21:52.612 [SPEAKER_01]: Of that program. 21:52.632 --> 21:52.833 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 21:53.534 --> 21:54.175 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, 21:54.155 --> 22:07.248 [SPEAKER_01]: Fixed mindset versus growth mindset and I was like oh my goodness I have been a fixed mindset person for as long as I can remember, you know, no one had told me And if funny or the Holy Spirit might ambush you. 22:07.328 --> 22:12.513 [SPEAKER_01]: I know a sixth grade band concert when read played the tuba He was very good. 22:12.653 --> 22:13.093 [SPEAKER_00]: He was great. 22:13.153 --> 22:14.174 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got that afternoon. 22:14.194 --> 22:20.280 [SPEAKER_01]: He's got a good ear got it from you and lungs Yeah, maybe I got that for me, but probably 22:20.260 --> 22:28.938 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I think I very much was in that fixed mindset, which is either have it or you don't. 22:29.199 --> 22:29.299 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 22:30.101 --> 22:36.093 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I would try some things and it wouldn't go great, and I'm like, well, I don't have it. 22:36.334 --> 22:36.835 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 22:36.815 --> 22:39.360 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, but that desire was there. 22:39.400 --> 22:40.703 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, what do I do with that? 22:41.264 --> 22:42.347 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's what I didn't want to be. 22:42.367 --> 22:55.414 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't want to be the real on American Idol of all the people that were told they can sing and they should not have been told they could, you know, out was my greatest fear was. 22:55.394 --> 23:00.322 [SPEAKER_01]: what if I'm really terrible and no one's telling me, you know, that sort of thing. 23:01.544 --> 23:21.655 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, um, so I think I was stuck there and then I read the back of this and and this is well after, um, recovery and really walking in a lot of freedom that growth mindset of, hey, you can you can fail at some things, but still eventually succeed, like you can grow. 23:21.635 --> 23:26.965 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, huh, that makes sense, but never thought about it that way. 23:27.045 --> 23:35.561 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, um, I think when it comes to songwriting in particular, that's a, that's a very vulnerable place for me. 23:36.563 --> 23:38.867 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't always, 23:38.847 --> 24:01.648 [SPEAKER_01]: try it all the time because I want it to be good and yeah and so just having that growth mindset of I can start with an idea I can expose it to certain people that are dressed that can give me encouraging, helpful feedback. 24:01.628 --> 24:16.246 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I can grow from that feedback, and so it doesn't have to be completely finished and look perfect and be exactly what I want it to be for people to see it and comment and they can make it better. 24:16.888 --> 24:18.372 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah. 24:18.352 --> 24:24.986 [SPEAKER_00]: So what were the, you're growing in, uh, I don't have it all together. 24:25.026 --> 24:27.030 [SPEAKER_00]: You've had this experience of God's grace. 24:27.511 --> 24:35.027 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, what is, what are little changes that start to happen in your life as you become more and more aware of? 24:35.007 --> 24:42.895 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm chasing the wind here, there's not enough praise of man to keep me going. 24:43.456 --> 24:48.542 [SPEAKER_00]: So what were little changes maybe in your life you began to notice and see? 24:48.682 --> 24:52.366 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of them was with friendships. 24:53.347 --> 24:59.293 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd been in some friendships that were good, but I knew 25:00.877 --> 25:02.680 [SPEAKER_01]: I knew I needed a break. 25:03.761 --> 25:05.203 [SPEAKER_01]: Some things just weren't healthy. 25:05.824 --> 25:11.733 [SPEAKER_01]: And I knew that I needed to be okay. 25:11.773 --> 25:13.676 [SPEAKER_01]: Like there was a rep sure in a friendship. 25:14.537 --> 25:18.343 [SPEAKER_01]: And I needed to be okay if that person was not okay with me. 25:19.224 --> 25:20.967 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was hard for me. 25:21.047 --> 25:23.070 [SPEAKER_01]: That was very hard. 25:23.050 --> 25:29.300 [SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like the Lord say, hey, I'm doing some things in her that you're going to get in the way of. 25:30.361 --> 25:36.390 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I think he was doing some things in me that that friendship would get in the way of. 25:36.510 --> 25:42.219 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think this was it was to be okay letting someone down into supporting them. 25:42.560 --> 25:46.746 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that, I do not like disappointing people. 25:47.165 --> 25:57.987 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that was one of the small ways that us started to grow and release that like people pleasing in particular and perfectionism. 25:58.007 --> 26:08.228 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that's what the perfectionism is to never disappoint anyone to always get the A for everyone to be pleased with me, you know, for me, that was being perfect. 26:08.208 --> 26:20.445 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you being perfect, you don't have to apologize, and so just learning to apologize, learning to be okay if people were disappointed in me, learning to say no, um, 26:21.522 --> 26:42.332 [SPEAKER_01]: learning to receive feedback and in constructive criticism or critique, and yeah, I think and then gratitude has been something that's helped me just like being grateful for what I have, because I think with 26:42.312 --> 26:46.301 [SPEAKER_01]: the people pleasing and performance. 26:46.321 --> 26:53.838 [SPEAKER_01]: There was always like this in the competition that, you know, I want to hate losing and everything's a competition. 26:53.878 --> 26:56.925 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we drive home from church in two different cars. 26:56.965 --> 26:59.511 [SPEAKER_01]: And I go and wait and you go another and I'm like, We'll see. 27:01.162 --> 27:03.445 [SPEAKER_01]: But someone cheats more than the other. 27:03.465 --> 27:06.389 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's what a lot of people who come in second say that. 27:06.409 --> 27:07.470 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh. 27:08.332 --> 27:16.062 [SPEAKER_01]: But just like instead of looking, looking at the other person and being like, well, why do they get to you? 27:16.422 --> 27:17.984 [SPEAKER_01]: Or why do they get that? 27:18.065 --> 27:20.788 [SPEAKER_01]: Why did they get to win in a sense? 27:21.689 --> 27:26.195 [SPEAKER_01]: And just being like, but God, thank you for what you have given me. 27:26.295 --> 27:28.318 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for what you let me experience. 27:28.378 --> 27:29.700 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for 27:29.680 --> 27:30.721 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, whatever. 27:31.262 --> 27:32.744 [SPEAKER_01]: So those have been small ways. 27:32.764 --> 27:38.030 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like I've I've changed in those seasons. 27:38.110 --> 27:43.496 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I loved watching you, you know, and what's that there's still vestiges. 27:43.576 --> 27:48.622 [SPEAKER_00]: I think probably because how God built you, they'll always be some of that and I need it in my life. 27:48.662 --> 27:51.806 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's it's lingering there because the Lord is trying to pull me. 27:52.026 --> 27:52.647 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe so. 27:52.807 --> 27:56.211 [SPEAKER_00]: But like your ability 27:56.191 --> 28:15.280 [SPEAKER_00]: to say no without guilt watching that grow over the next couple of years was huge to me because that was the thing that I would see is your life would be filled with things that you didn't want it to be filled with. 28:15.260 --> 28:19.105 [SPEAKER_00]: and the driver was that you didn't want to let anybody down. 28:19.806 --> 28:31.321 [SPEAKER_00]: And as the pastor's wife in a large growing fast, the the asks on you were nearly in less. 28:31.361 --> 28:38.230 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was one of the ways I was hoping you would say that because one of the ways I saw it, the evidence of grace I saw in your life. 28:38.210 --> 28:38.571 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 28:38.611 --> 28:42.997 [SPEAKER_00]: Was the willingness to just go, yeah, no, I don't, that's not where the Lord's having me. 28:43.357 --> 28:43.718 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 28:43.738 --> 28:46.862 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, spend my energy in this season, but love you and thank you. 28:46.902 --> 28:56.175 [SPEAKER_00]: And then not bring that up for the next six weeks over coffee in the morning about how you hope they don't, you know, hate you or whatever. 28:56.215 --> 28:56.896 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 28:56.916 --> 29:01.703 [SPEAKER_00]: Which, you know, they're not going to, um, I would love 29:02.003 --> 29:24.535 [SPEAKER_00]: do you have a story of maybe as you're growing in this of a failure or an imperfection or a that kind of tested that new surrender to the Lord that you got to the other side of? 29:24.515 --> 29:29.840 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't know if I'll win, I don't know if I'll make the A. I feel called to do this. 29:30.661 --> 29:30.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh. 29:30.821 --> 29:38.189 [SPEAKER_00]: And, and, and, and, and it didn't go, it didn't go the way you wanted, and then you get to the other side of it and go, oh, I'm fine. 29:39.170 --> 29:39.430 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 29:40.591 --> 29:44.535 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, at that question, I was like, I know there's been something happen. 29:44.555 --> 29:45.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Can, can you think of one? 29:46.217 --> 29:47.899 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're just so, I mean, I don't know. 29:47.919 --> 29:54.285 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I just, just, just all you do is win and less we're driving home from less we're driving home from church, but other than that. 29:54.653 --> 30:23.817 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't I'm trying to think of could it be um yeah I don't I don't I don't I don't have one in mind when I have that question I was thinking either with the kids or yeah with ministry opportunities or yeah 30:26.311 --> 30:30.718 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and met when I 30:31.677 --> 31:00.402 [SPEAKER_01]: like failed with them or like just yeah, knowing that the Lord would use even my failures with them to shape them and so that that meant not like maybe the Lord could do something with my failure and an attempts to repair that like owning the failure and apologizing for it 31:00.382 --> 31:04.167 [SPEAKER_01]: and the mending of that more than if I'd just not perfectly. 31:04.507 --> 31:05.448 [SPEAKER_01]: If that makes sense. 31:05.869 --> 31:14.520 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that's what in the podcast with Adam, we were talking about this subject was the subject, parenting was the subject. 31:14.820 --> 31:22.690 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he, like in his words, one of the things he brings to bear on his family is he, he's a center. 31:22.990 --> 31:23.431 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 31:23.451 --> 31:25.393 [SPEAKER_00]: And that gives him an opportunity. 31:25.373 --> 31:36.379 [SPEAKER_00]: to let his kids tangibly experience grace when he fall short and owns it and circles back. 31:37.152 --> 31:55.397 [SPEAKER_00]: lays the gospel over his failure for his own life as he seeks to mend the the the the the breach if you will yeah the relationship and so I thought that I think that's definitely I'd definitely experienced that 31:55.377 --> 32:14.753 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think of one other experience that I had, that it hit that really tender spot of I felt like shame because I failed at something and not 32:14.733 --> 32:17.261 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't even try to achieve. 32:17.281 --> 32:23.039 [SPEAKER_01]: So I had sung at my aunt's funeral and had worn this dress. 32:23.902 --> 32:26.289 [SPEAKER_01]: In the dress, I think, was went to my knees. 32:26.630 --> 32:27.533 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I remember this? 32:27.553 --> 32:27.814 [SPEAKER_01]: I do. 32:28.435 --> 32:43.249 [SPEAKER_01]: and I went straight from singing, you know, at this funeral service to singing at church and leading worship, and at where the same dress, I thought it was very modest, you know? 32:43.289 --> 32:43.950 [SPEAKER_01]: You are modest. 32:43.970 --> 32:45.972 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a modest person, okay? 32:46.012 --> 32:46.272 [SPEAKER_01]: So... 32:46.533 --> 32:48.094 [SPEAKER_00]: I was surprised you had the guns out for this. 32:48.595 --> 32:48.815 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm amazed. 32:48.835 --> 32:50.717 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought you were going to... 32:50.737 --> 32:53.139 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought you were totally going to put sleeves on for this. 32:53.399 --> 32:56.322 [SPEAKER_01]: I was, but then I was too tired to change. 32:56.582 --> 32:57.143 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway. 32:58.237 --> 33:18.418 [SPEAKER_01]: And so then probably a week later, a couple of days later, someone had gotten an email at church and looped you into it and then me that they had an issue with my dress and that was too short and it was like distracting. 33:18.679 --> 33:21.882 [SPEAKER_01]: And that, like, killed me. 33:22.351 --> 33:26.098 [SPEAKER_01]: line because leading worship is dear to me. 33:26.118 --> 33:31.268 [SPEAKER_01]: I love doing it and I do not want to be a distraction, though, ever, ever. 33:31.308 --> 33:35.375 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that hurt my heart. 33:35.696 --> 33:38.741 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh my gosh, that was not my intention at all. 33:38.822 --> 33:41.046 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't even like, oh, like good in this. 33:41.086 --> 33:41.727 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like, 33:41.707 --> 33:42.308 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it cute? 33:42.428 --> 33:44.290 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a cute dress. 33:44.310 --> 33:46.072 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm weren't a funeral dress. 33:46.593 --> 33:49.035 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was modest. 33:49.175 --> 33:52.880 [SPEAKER_01]: I am a modest dresser, except for this sleeveless shirt today. 33:53.661 --> 33:55.102 [SPEAKER_01]: But it sounds out. 33:55.122 --> 33:56.424 [SPEAKER_00]: You know what they say about that? 33:56.444 --> 33:56.964 [SPEAKER_01]: It sounds out. 33:57.845 --> 34:03.311 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, and so I remember, I mean, that could have taken me down. 34:03.892 --> 34:03.992 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:04.012 --> 34:09.098 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just, I felt, I went to the Lord and I was like, 34:09.078 --> 34:10.501 [SPEAKER_01]: You know my heart. 34:10.761 --> 34:11.283 [SPEAKER_01]: I would never. 34:11.623 --> 34:12.846 [SPEAKER_01]: I'd never wear that dress again. 34:12.866 --> 34:14.068 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't. 34:14.088 --> 34:15.371 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I weren't anywhere. 34:15.752 --> 34:17.235 [SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't have my season anyway. 34:17.315 --> 34:17.996 [SPEAKER_01]: So there it is. 34:18.257 --> 34:18.578 [SPEAKER_00]: There it is. 34:18.618 --> 34:19.379 [SPEAKER_00]: Get your colors down. 34:19.399 --> 34:21.484 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be green and this is my green, guys. 34:23.548 --> 34:27.997 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it was that I was out. 34:28.498 --> 34:28.538 [UNKNOWN]: I- 34:29.024 --> 34:38.280 [SPEAKER_01]: I was okay that I'd disappointed someone, even if I thought that it was a little, the standards were a little high. 34:38.301 --> 34:44.772 [SPEAKER_01]: And that my heart was never was not to distract. 34:44.752 --> 34:52.040 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, and so that, that was kind of like this growing moment for me where it didn't take me out. 34:52.060 --> 34:54.102 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't dwell on it for a long time. 34:54.122 --> 34:59.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, Lord, you, you, I, I trust you. 34:59.447 --> 35:01.710 [SPEAKER_01]: And my reputation is safe with you. 35:01.730 --> 35:03.832 [SPEAKER_01]: And you are who I want to please. 35:03.852 --> 35:05.694 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not want to be a distraction. 35:05.814 --> 35:10.279 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you, you know, if that was distracting to that couple. 35:10.319 --> 35:10.759 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 35:10.739 --> 35:21.515 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, so I don't know why when you ask that question just now that like popped into my yeah, I mean somebody watched it. 35:21.535 --> 35:22.176 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. 35:22.196 --> 35:36.156 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's clear that where it was like that deep shame that I felt and then I was like, wait, that kind of shame is not from the Lord that is the enemy wanting to come and shut me down and have me dwell on it. 35:36.136 --> 35:43.925 [SPEAKER_01]: and live in that chain and the Lord's like, nope, I'm covering that chain, you're okay, you know. 35:44.205 --> 35:48.630 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not that I was like, and then I wore a dress that was even short and that's right. 35:48.771 --> 35:53.616 [SPEAKER_00]: Because of that, it was like, tore these sleeves off this shirt for the podcast. 35:53.977 --> 35:55.839 [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully, hopefully they're watching. 35:55.859 --> 35:57.681 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll go like that. 35:57.701 --> 35:59.443 [SPEAKER_01]: But it was like, 35:59.423 --> 36:28.249 [SPEAKER_01]: would I trust you with my reputation and you know my heart and it was not it was not to distract and and to cause anyone to stumble I don't know so yeah that no I think that's a that's a great great story I'm not sure that story I was gonna say that that's been a you know these walls 36:28.229 --> 36:34.382 [SPEAKER_00]: And what he was trying to say in that is these kinds of bends. 36:35.143 --> 36:48.972 [SPEAKER_00]: So like my bent is to save fix, built to be the hero, to step in to, and then all my kind of negative and positive traits will go to that end. 36:48.952 --> 37:03.665 [SPEAKER_00]: And so what I have to be vigilant on is that compulsion to run ahead of the Lord or to get involved in something he's not asking me to get into or to power up to make something happen. 37:03.725 --> 37:18.958 [SPEAKER_00]: So those are like watchmen on the wall kind of I need to pay attention to that impulse in in the process of sanctification in God making you the Holy Spirit making you more and more and more like Jesus over time. 37:18.938 --> 37:24.689 [SPEAKER_00]: How does in this season with all this history behind you? 37:24.729 --> 37:35.388 [SPEAKER_00]: How does people pleasing in perfection, try to maybe sneak in like if you're thinking about the last couple of months of your life? 37:37.632 --> 37:40.137 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think in... 37:41.753 --> 37:44.941 [SPEAKER_01]: And gosh, weren't parenting as a huge one. 37:45.702 --> 37:57.450 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, wanting to, um, either do what am I parents think is the right or do what they have opinions about. 37:58.308 --> 38:04.899 [SPEAKER_01]: love you mom and dad or in I respect them too. 38:05.020 --> 38:06.141 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're amazing. 38:06.161 --> 38:22.830 [SPEAKER_01]: They are and they did a good job and so I respect their opinions but also can feel like that just don't want to disappoint them or um or I just want to do it right by my kids and um 38:22.810 --> 38:35.647 [SPEAKER_01]: and even just, it's real easy to get caught up in, you know, what other parents of other kids think, you know, and having to come back to, okay, Lord, you have given me these kids. 38:36.408 --> 38:40.193 [SPEAKER_01]: You have given me these kids and they're yours. 38:40.714 --> 38:42.436 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I am trusting you with them. 38:42.677 --> 38:46.742 [SPEAKER_01]: I am seeking to follow you and how to parent them. 38:47.448 --> 39:00.124 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to take advice, absolutely, but at the end of the day, you and I are seeking the Lord in how to parent our kids and whatever other people think from the outside. 39:01.235 --> 39:06.861 [SPEAKER_01]: that's between them and the Lord and parenting our kids is between you and me and the Lord. 39:07.182 --> 39:12.788 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so that's, that's been a place that I can, I can be like, oh my gosh, what are other people thinking? 39:13.028 --> 39:15.771 [SPEAKER_01]: Or do they think I'm parenting well or whatever? 39:15.831 --> 39:19.535 [SPEAKER_01]: But bottom line is I love our children. 39:19.555 --> 39:22.939 [SPEAKER_01]: They've been given to us and the Lord knows them best. 39:23.059 --> 39:28.305 [SPEAKER_01]: And so seeking how to parent them well means seeking the Lord. 39:28.505 --> 39:29.446 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 39:29.827 --> 39:41.060 [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, because of God's good work in and through us, there's a lot of people who get to see all of that have eyes for that. 39:41.340 --> 39:43.102 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is unfortunate for the kids. 39:43.302 --> 39:45.865 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard for the kids. 39:46.166 --> 39:53.554 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can only imagine what the pressure that I feel that we try to protect and shield them from that. 39:53.574 --> 39:54.776 [SPEAKER_00]: We can't take it all for them. 39:54.796 --> 39:55.256 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 39:55.357 --> 39:58.360 [SPEAKER_00]: Because we're not the ones 39:58.340 --> 39:59.201 [SPEAKER_00]: Steve Cuss. 39:59.462 --> 39:59.982 [SPEAKER_00]: I read it. 40:00.122 --> 40:01.064 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't hear him say it. 40:01.184 --> 40:15.804 [SPEAKER_00]: I read it in a booky wrote that talked about other people's anxieties and expectations and you can choose to either carry those for them or you can just refuse to carry those for him. 40:16.185 --> 40:26.980 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think growing in that is something I've been, I mean, God's gift to me is to watch you grow in those things where 40:26.960 --> 40:34.450 [SPEAKER_00]: you're just not going to carry that expectation or anxiety that somebody else has where early you would carry everybody. 40:34.811 --> 40:34.951 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:35.311 --> 40:39.096 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's a lot of fun for me, who that's not my band. 40:39.477 --> 40:43.442 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got another band towards people's expectations, but which isn't any god. 40:43.462 --> 40:44.784 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's not godly. 40:44.804 --> 40:45.865 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a godly band. 40:46.947 --> 40:53.155 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's funny that we this is one of the very few areas in our marriage where we are very different. 40:53.175 --> 40:54.537 [SPEAKER_00]: Almost everywhere else where 40:54.517 --> 40:55.258 [SPEAKER_01]: Almost. 40:55.819 --> 40:56.460 [SPEAKER_00]: Almost everywhere. 40:56.680 --> 40:57.241 [SPEAKER_01]: Almost. 40:57.461 --> 40:57.761 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, baby. 40:57.781 --> 40:58.823 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I used that word. 40:58.843 --> 40:59.163 [SPEAKER_00]: I said. 40:59.183 --> 41:00.485 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 41:00.946 --> 41:01.607 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God. 41:01.707 --> 41:02.247 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 41:02.308 --> 41:03.649 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I used that word. 41:03.830 --> 41:04.150 [SPEAKER_02]: I know. 41:04.190 --> 41:05.412 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is a big one. 41:05.712 --> 41:05.932 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 41:05.993 --> 41:09.698 [SPEAKER_00]: Where your bent is early, especially early. 41:09.738 --> 41:14.043 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, is to, oh, man, I need to meet that expectation. 41:14.063 --> 41:15.225 [SPEAKER_00]: And my things been like, 41:15.205 --> 41:18.068 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a place for you to take that expectation. 41:18.569 --> 41:21.031 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me whisper to your ears and I'll get fired. 41:21.452 --> 41:28.620 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, so that's been a fun, I feel like you have your strength as drawn me to go. 41:28.640 --> 41:30.302 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, there's something probably there. 41:30.922 --> 41:37.750 [SPEAKER_00]: And then hopefully the Lord's work in you, I know the Lord's work in you is kind of moved you to where some people, the expectation matters. 41:38.110 --> 41:38.491 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 41:38.511 --> 41:41.534 [SPEAKER_00]: And then some people, honestly, it does and I'm not going to pick that up. 41:41.574 --> 41:44.217 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to carry it. 41:44.635 --> 41:45.276 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love. 41:45.356 --> 41:46.999 [SPEAKER_00]: We always end the episodes this way. 41:48.521 --> 41:54.792 [SPEAKER_00]: So right now, men and women on a treadmill in their car, I don't know. 41:55.172 --> 42:05.850 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, working out, going for a walk in their neighborhood, doing all the stuff you do when you listen to podcasts, and maybe over the last hour, 42:05.830 --> 42:11.044 [SPEAKER_00]: they have seen themselves in your story. 42:11.224 --> 42:11.926 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 42:12.187 --> 42:19.746 [SPEAKER_00]: How would you encourage them if they are maybe where you were, all those years ago, walking into recovery. 42:19.786 --> 42:20.869 [SPEAKER_00]: They're stuck. 42:20.849 --> 42:25.678 [SPEAKER_00]: in the river, you know, they've got the rock in their hand. 42:26.038 --> 42:36.236 [SPEAKER_00]: God's backending them forward, and but man, they really know how to do the wilderness, and then they really know, you know, still got some of that Egyptian culture in them. 42:37.178 --> 42:42.267 [SPEAKER_00]: What would your encouragement to them be if you could just give them a few words here as we wrap up our time together? 42:42.297 --> 42:52.192 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, my life verse, second Corinthians 12, nine, for my greatest sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect and weakness. 42:53.053 --> 42:59.783 [SPEAKER_01]: Then Paul goes on to say, so I'll boast all the more gladly in my weaknesses so that Christ's power made dwell in me. 42:59.763 --> 43:05.209 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, that's my encouragement to you that weakness is not a bad thing. 43:05.269 --> 43:23.468 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a good thing because it gives the Lord's space to work beyond what you can do on your own, and it's an opportunity and an invitation to rest in Him, to rest in Jesus being enough for everything in your life right now. 43:23.848 --> 43:23.948 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 43:23.928 --> 43:25.551 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't do it by yourself. 43:25.911 --> 43:27.153 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't carry it all. 43:27.634 --> 43:28.675 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't get the A. 43:28.736 --> 43:29.977 [SPEAKER_01]: You cannot achieve it all. 43:30.198 --> 43:46.063 [SPEAKER_01]: Even if you tried, it would not satisfy, but a real live understanding of who Jesus is and what he has for you today in your weakness is is what it's all about. 43:46.323 --> 43:47.164 [SPEAKER_00]: Come on. 43:47.184 --> 43:47.385 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 43:47.645 --> 43:50.830 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a beautiful word, 43:50.810 --> 44:09.088 [SPEAKER_00]: L-R-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L-L 44:10.351 --> 44:14.758 [SPEAKER_00]: is restful and replenishing to the soul. 44:14.858 --> 44:23.753 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know this, gosh, you know that you might even know verses around it, but that rest is found in the finished perfect work of Jesus. 44:24.414 --> 44:30.083 [SPEAKER_00]: You cannot earn the A, but Christ is willing to give you the A. 44:30.123 --> 44:33.709 [SPEAKER_00]: And that, that to me, is incredible. 44:34.290 --> 44:35.852 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll never earn it 44:35.832 --> 44:37.676 [SPEAKER_00]: and praise God you don't have to. 44:37.816 --> 44:39.118 [SPEAKER_00]: So he's going to give it. 44:39.139 --> 44:51.423 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are no perfect parents, there are no perfect spouses, there are no perfect musicians or singers or there's one perfect one and the call is to rest in him. 44:52.004 --> 44:53.206 [SPEAKER_00]: And so thanks for tuning in. 44:53.307 --> 44:53.888 [SPEAKER_00]: God bless you. 44:54.449 --> 44:55.090 [SPEAKER_00]: See you next time. 45:03.102 --> 45:06.166 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, thank you so much for tuning in to the overcomers. 45:06.246 --> 45:09.530 [SPEAKER_00]: I just pray your heart is always encouraged in the Lord. 45:09.590 --> 45:24.368 [SPEAKER_00]: Really the ministry I feel God's called me to in this season is to be one that's encouraging you, telling you the Lord sees you, reminding you of the the opportunities that we have is the people of God in this day. 45:24.768 --> 45:28.553 [SPEAKER_00]: And so the overcomers podcast is one of the ways I do that another way. 45:28.533 --> 45:39.271 [SPEAKER_00]: is that I'm sending out a monthly newsletter, and in that I've got a little audio link for kind of things I'm thinking about and wrestling through that I'm not necessarily preaching on. 45:39.751 --> 45:45.421 [SPEAKER_00]: And so in the show notes is a link where you can go and sign up for that monthly email. 45:45.922 --> 45:54.255 [SPEAKER_00]: And so man, if the overcomers is encouraging you, I would encourage you then to click on that link, sign up for the newsletter. 45:54.275 --> 45:55.317 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's way for me to put it on. 45:55.297 --> 46:01.678 [SPEAKER_00]: further encourage you as you seek to live as overcomers in this current moment.