[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're listening to this on a podcast version, we actually went live a couple minutes earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is like a edited down thing for the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: But anyone everyone, thank you for listening and thank you for being here.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: great man just a little exhaust and still coming off the cold world weekend and stuff and like going back and straight into work like full force but it was a mad hectic weekend but it was all good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like an international tour weekend to my part of the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was really dope.
[SPEAKER_03]: Saw some people I haven't seen in a while and had some good food and some interesting semi meltdown moments within the band members and things like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm sort of here that I guess it's like anything with cold world.
[SPEAKER_00]: funny meltdowns like it's you know what I mean it's it's like there's never anything too serious and when it does get serious It's like hilarious, you know what I mean they're definitely Should be a cold world tour movie like that's like so many boring bands make these tour movies We were like fuck like
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'll watch this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, but Cole world, we have a lot of hilarity, a lot of fights, physical and verbal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, our friend from back home, Jude flew up and joined us.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's newly single.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, he's the older than me.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like Dan's age.
[SPEAKER_03]: and just be in the van from Detroit, Saturano and here in him tell all of his stories that I've heard already, and just watching my band members.
[SPEAKER_03]: react to his stories like, this is just priceless.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was great, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a good weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I made it out to talk to you outside, but I unfortunately was pretty sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I'm still getting over it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like to be honest with you, I had like this cold that is not gone away and it's kind of knocked me out, but I'm glad I got to see you outdoors where it was safe and hopefully to get sick for me or anyone else while you're up here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got a little something, but I
[SPEAKER_03]: Any time I travel, I get a comeback with a little sniffle.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it wasn't you, if it was what you have, it would be way worse.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is just like the baseline of what I always come back with, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I don't know mine's just been like a head cold.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of my ears, too, even now, as I'm telling you, anyway, people don't want to hear about being sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the last thing, people want to listen to this book, yeah, for example, you've played so bad out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have this thing where like any time,
[SPEAKER_03]: any sort of entertainment starts talking about covid i just turn it off i'm just like i did not want to fucking hear about this like not not like not like i'm a denier anything like that just more like
[SPEAKER_03]: This can't be my form of entertainment.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what's funny?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny you say that because I was listening to, I was listening to all the old Gilbert God Free Podcast over and over again as they keep putting them up in the feed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was listening to one where they were talking to, two guys that were kind of writers had written books on horror movies.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one was talking about how horror movies were a reaction to the trauma of the first full war.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he kind of like theorizes that any time there's sort of like this sort of mass trauma in particular affecting America.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Hollywood will react with like certain putting it horror movies and horror movies will be reaction to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was like thinking the exact same thing with COVID, I'm like, yeah, I don't think anyone wants to see any horror movie around that premise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, now, like it really is something where Yeah, like once again, not in any sort of nire kind of way more in a
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, that was, like, oh my god, that was terrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was horrific, and I just don't, yeah, want to, I would never want to watch a horror movie with that premise.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, don't want to...
[SPEAKER_03]: Even just about in like conversation, like if people are talking about like this generation are so fucked up from COVID, I'm like, yeah, maybe some reason I just don't, I don't want to hear it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like that, there's this show on Netflix.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, worlds worse, perfect neighbor or something like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, oh, you got to watch it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we put it on.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just like, it's just like all police body cam footage of this crazy nutcase woman who had like,
[SPEAKER_03]: a black family next to her with like kids that played outside all the time and she got nuts and like shot one of them and I'm like, Oh, we should.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want this to this isn't my entertainment for the night.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just worked all day.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'd sit down to be entertained by this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally get and I I also at other times in my life engaged with true crime media.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like true crime.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't give me like that's the thing like, but when it's something that
[SPEAKER_03]: Just like, just, I don't know, too indicative of the, of like, the worst shit we're living through right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's like, I don't want to be entertained by it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a level of kind of like exploitation and just like, I don't, I don't really want to, and it affects all the media I consume now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm really like, in a very kind of weird, you know, I don't really like cool movies anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: At one point in my life, I watched cool movies, but now even like that stuff, I've gone to, to freaky, to, to, uh, no, yeah, anyway, let's move on to stuff we do like talking about music.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've kind of got a change.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, you, you and I've been talking about doing this sort of change in format thing a little bit where less.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, focused on the podcast in terms of, you know, reviewing old episodes or talking about the other episodes and digging into them, we might still do that because I think some might jumping off points will be kind of from a podcast still, but the new direction being more that you and I are going to kind of pick something from pop culture, underground pop culture,
[SPEAKER_00]: to talk about and kind of like kind of what we are doing with this sort of three things segment, which we will continue to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this will be a way of kind of like having this show be a little bit broader than always being dependent on who was the guest each and every week because I know what some of these guests are met necessarily.
[SPEAKER_00]: In your purview of stuff
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not even that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, it's just like there's some of some of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like there's nothing to talk about.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, they just kind of like, yeah, I heard black flag and I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my God.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, like, this is where we disagree.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's why we've got the new format change.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we can't talk about stuff we both really want to talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I really didn't I don't really have too much stuff that I've done.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I did, I went to that Jeff Cannibal wrestling benefits as we've recorded an episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was an incredible experience, inter-species wrestling put on event and it was a, yeah, just like a really cool kind of reunion mini reunion for me of sorts because I got a chance to see a lot of people have in scenes as we shot that original tournament of death documentary with Jeff Cannibal in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a bunch of other great wrestlers from kind of the area.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was a really fun time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a really good experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And money was raised for a great cause.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jeff Cannonball is, I'm sure many of you know is someone dealing with ALS right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, a bunch of great benefits going on different places to kind of raise money for his family.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, you've followed Jeff Cannonball on, on Instagram and he kept the rest of all these sorts of things as they get posted and lots of really cool wrestling community stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I really, that was the neat thing about it is because like, you know, sometimes I forget how awesome independent wrestling is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's, uh, I think I get caught up sometimes in like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what I, what I, you know, don't necessarily like about wrestling and I forget what I thought was really amazing about pro wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, definitely the way this sort of community supports itself is really really cool and a lot like punk rock and, you know, That's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all I want to add for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you got anything to add to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not really, yeah, I mean, it's great that it was done well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Since then has the Piss Genes benefit show happened?
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the last weekend, but if not, yeah, it's in Philly, I guess, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pistines is doing a benefit for Jeff too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Deep wrestling kind of connection.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously with that band.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, that was a good a good experience getting to kind of go out there and and met some turn out of punk listeners, hang out with some turn out of punk listeners and talked about I heard they stream live some positive reviews for this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so, you know, we're going to keep on trucking.
[SPEAKER_03]: We need them, but I need to hear that someone's listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, is anybody there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Does anybody feel, what do I feel?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then today, I went with last minute, I got asked to go with my middle child Dorothy on a field trip to go to the Mocha, the Museum of Contemporary Art in Toronto.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they haven't exhibit right now of this photographer, Jeff Wall, who's, I wasn't familiar, but that is probably because I'm obviously just concerned with this very narrow music genre that we know with Jeff Wall's work prior to this, but he is a very well-known photographer and this was sort of like a celebration retrospective of work that he had done.
[SPEAKER_00]: between the years 84 and 2023.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like kind of a regressionist technology's gone on, how he's kind of changed the way he prints these photographs.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's huge giant photos mounted on lightboxes, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's some smaller ones too and there's some more abstract ones, but I guess what he does is these photos are meticulously staged and like so there's actors involved and they're sort of like everything involved in the composition of the photograph is placed by him and he kind of like arranges it perfectly and it takes a really long time to get these setups.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, what so I'm in this thing I'm like going around looking at these photos.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I find this photo at the very back of the exhibit called the guitarist and I'm looking at these kind of like hippie guitarists on the floor and then there's just tons of graffiti on the wall and some flyers and if I'm not shitting you it is the most obscure Vancouver punk bands imaginable.
[SPEAKER_00]: like mid 80s ones like not not like there's there's some DOWG graffiti on the wall but like there's some black flag graffiti but it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: Another kind of blues band, Shang-Hai dog spores like these like super weird bands.
[SPEAKER_00]: SNFU, but like the album title, the first record and then a phone number in beside it, it's really bizarre.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then a false liberty flyer playing with Fratrici, which is the pre-Brotherhood band in Presano.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't, like that's a thing, Lodge.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't go out looking for this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: It finds me.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's like, when I say that I don't believe in ghosts because I've, you know, I've never, I need to see some evidence people say, well, you're not open to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you're open to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're open to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I see the punk rock ghosts everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would never see that I would never,
[SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't believe it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when I saw some of these bands being referenced on this graffiti, I'm like, this is just for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm taking like little pictures, but I don't know the protocol about posting some other and someone else's photography on Instagram, so I don't necessarily wanna post this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I don't think, I would think that if there was something wrong with it, there'd be some kind of sign, but you said that it's like,
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, the photos are like planned out.
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, was there graffiti like fake?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, was it a made-up set?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or, that's what I'm wondering.
[SPEAKER_00]: The image is called the guitarist.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the photographer's called Jeff Wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can see it on online.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, like I'm like, did he write this graffiti?
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he, is he the one of these connections?
[SPEAKER_00]: And weirdly I've been talking to someone in SNFU.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to send him that phone number and try and find out if that's their number.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's how we all got put together.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it was the rise of when I was calling the phone number and the saves that they demo.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like a month.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could call any of these people's phone numbers back there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm assuming it was like Chris's parents house, I'm guessing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I forget what I used to say when they'd answer, but I was calling.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was cool, when you kind of call and talk to people in bands and they would just talk to you on the phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was calling on some jerky boys shit, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, were you?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was probably like, uh, I believe I'm a punitive damages.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, five of beans.
[SPEAKER_00]: We used to prank called Chubby Fresh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it was full number is in the first integrity seven inch.
[SPEAKER_03]: I used to call, uh, I used to call people pretend and I was Freddie Kruger and like I called Don Fury.
[SPEAKER_03]: I called Don Fury and I told him that me and somebody's Jason and Leatherface and Penhead are getting to have a new band together called The Dream Warriors and we wanted to book some time and he called me back and left the message and he was like, hey, I'm not sure if you were serious, but here's my schedule for the next month or two.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, you used to watch trailer park boys, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, hell yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You remember the, what's the way rapper on their call?
[SPEAKER_00]: J-rock.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I was a kid, J-rock, you said have a TV show here called John O'vision, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like a talk show for kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some 41 made their first TV appearance on their battle of the bands episode, but they used to put up their phone number at the end of every episode and say, hey, if you have any, yes, if you have any shows, ideas, call us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we used to prank Carl and just leave someone else's name and phone number.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a friend and just like see the most horrific thing and then they would call the person back and be like, hey, we're just reaching out about your message.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just want to know if you need help and so one day I'm sitting at home and I get a call from John of vision and a producer and she's like, hey, I calling for Damian.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm calling about your embarrassing fart problem or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, no, no, that's just a friend, probably fucking with me and she's like, okay, well, would you want to come on the show anyway?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, yeah, sure, like I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's like, we're doing an upcoming episode on teen reviews.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you want to review this TV show called Buffy the Vampire Slayer?
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you just start to airing?
[SPEAKER_00]: And, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: breaker high, which is what's that guy's name that famous Canadian actor, who's super handsome with blonde hair, he was in the notebook.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, dude, I'm terrible with actors and actual atoms and
[SPEAKER_00]: What's his name?
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, he was on the show when he was like a little kid.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and so Josh Hartman I'm just throwing one out.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, Josh Hartman is not the older, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I think they're around probably the same mate No, no, you're right, Josh Hartman is older.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's he's making it come back right now, but anyway I'm now very much distracted from where we were going anyway So we're reviewing these TV shows and so I get to the show and it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a, a backstage and they're like, this is the guy, you guys are going to actually have a debate because like I said that I thought both those shows sucked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry if you like those shows, but I thought they both sucked, and they were like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like so I'm like meet the guy who's like likes these shows and he's like, I don't want to talk to you till we get on air so I can save my Anger for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like sure dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like whatever Anyways, we go out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's super fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like my I got my friend to go on another segment and we had a really good time And then it gets to the end of the show and John O. J.
[SPEAKER_00]: Rock comes backstage
[SPEAKER_00]: to meet all the people that were on the panel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I swear to God, Nick, he goes like this, he shakes everyone's hand like, hey, John, thanks for coming, thanks for coming, thanks for coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: Looks me dead in the eye, goes like this, and then turns around and walks away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[SPEAKER_00]: And then like, three or four years ago, there's this thing, I think Bice, maybe it's more like 10 years ago now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Bice didn't article about John Ovision.
[SPEAKER_00]: And no one hit me up for a story because like about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I made like a whole Twitter thing about it that you know, by shared and about my experience being on the show and include that part with John O.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, just give me the nod or J.
[SPEAKER_00]: Rock, just give me the nod.
[SPEAKER_00]: And uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: He broke me and you apologize.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, come on my podcast, so I can apologize to you in person.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, Oh, for sure, man, like, yeah, let me know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you just never wrote me back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fuck you.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what he's, he'd be like, huh?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is that?
[SPEAKER_03]: What he does on that show on on trailer for our boys.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, say something like, huh, like kind of like a masterpiece technique.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm never made it through an episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: What?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, I got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't even.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, anyway, let's move on to share things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's my John O'vision experience with Craig Collin.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess like for the the new format for the show diving on into it, we're going to pick something that we're interested in pop from pop culture and that we want to talk about with the other person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I believe, woe, you, you stood out yours from last week.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, to do like, I, I think that this should be like our final episode of the original format, because because on the board.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're exciting episode that like we have to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I just actually confirmed an episode potentially next week that I don't want to say because I don't want to spoil it that I think's going to blow your fucking mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, what you're like, okay, we've got to talk to this one too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, I don't think it's off limits because I was going to want to talk about the Dawn episode and kind of the ink and dagger phenomena, but you know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it also is like a perfect like
[SPEAKER_03]: with what I do want to talk about.
[SPEAKER_03]: If he wasn't on any way, which was, I think we discussed this on the phone.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hard lowers greatest hardcore band of the 90s bracket tournament.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as over now, I think there's a, is there a confirmed winner?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, breathe just the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, breathe one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which I'm not I'm not going to I know this will probably be a lot of people being like met with an eyeer from people that was in this podcast, but I I'm not mad at that, you know, like if I'm if you're I remember in a pre turn style world.
[SPEAKER_00]: reflects kind of the DIY basement scene, but also this like hyperaggressive commercial leaning scene that was also really part of the 90s story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's when most of these bands first, that's when most bands sign to major labels in hardcore.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think they kind of like run
[SPEAKER_03]: the gamut of 90s hardcore, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like everybody from every little pocket of the scene knew about them or liked them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm not mad at them winning, but I have a lot of thoughts about that bracket and the bands listed and not listed.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think
[SPEAKER_03]: You could tie my thoughts to the Don De Vor episode, causing so much heat in your, within your listenership and in the scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess I bring everyone up to speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Don De Vor episode, which I love and I had a great time doing it, but a lot of people, I also had a lot of people have reached out and said it's their favorite episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: A few people have written to say that, specifically, but there's also been some people
[SPEAKER_00]: met it with a little bit of iron to say the least.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's a divisive dude.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think because he's, you know, for people that weren't around like, you know, I look, I started going to shows in like 95, 96.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I caught like the tail end of the era of this type of fella being like the typical 90s hardcore guy,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like I think like I think we talked about it before on here where like, you know, like the mid 90s, like New York hardcore was was not the, the, I don't know, the baseline that it became in like the 2000s, you know, it was almost like the obscure like maybe even like poked fun of a little bit by like the, the, the,
[SPEAKER_03]: hardcore de jour, you know, like, and I think like Don kind of like explained it, you know, like when he was like, you know, basically like just just anything that was that was like displaying like toughness or machismo or something was automatically out of the conversation, like didn't count as like even being in those guys, like,
[SPEAKER_03]: view of what is acceptable in like progressive hardcore.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that like you know a lot of the guys that were like older than me that that I knew in hardcore like and girl you know women in hardcore like that's how they thought too you know like any anything that was tough or karate kick in and you know all that shit like it was like made fun of by a big group of the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like I think like
[SPEAKER_03]: The hardcore at large made New York hardcore and tough guy style that kind of lay of the land, that whole section of the scene kind of got it written out of history to me, which is why the biggest
[SPEAKER_03]: hardcore podcasts out now like you look at this this bracket here and like to me like what I think of is like you know like early in mid-90s biggest most popular hardcore bands aren't even on this list you know because that stuff gets so written out of
[SPEAKER_03]: of history, but I'm not dissing there, they're bracket because ultimately it's like from their view, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So from what I understand of it, it's like, this is what they think are the best bands from the 90s.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's totally, my list would be different and you know, it respect to those guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I talked to Colin and we talked about his list and stuff and, you know, he even him, he was like, you know, the
[SPEAKER_03]: You think it's crazy, the main thing I hear from people about this list is, where is Zayah or Zah?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, what?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if you were going to do a true reflection of what?
[SPEAKER_00]: see it's it's it's so hard to do 90s hardcore like you're because I think like they're there's so many international scenes and like micro manifestation like like the burden kind of metal core kind of stuff or
[SPEAKER_00]: like British like that like you know the kind of like leather face kind of stuff that I love and all that like I feel like but if you're going to do American just American bands I think Zow would probably be on there if you're trying to like reflect like what was the biggest kind of Christian band back then like focal point I think I remember being a band that people liked but Zow seemed like a band that kind of crossed over yeah yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what I, my biggest issue is like, there's no abolition bands on here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess, you know, there's no like, um, what was Scott Bibin's blood link, you know, like, you know, from my memory, those were the biggest things, you know, like heart attack, phansine, like, none of these bands got, you know, like, like love from that portion of the scene, which to me was like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Kind of what was like setting the tone like you know what I mean like I understand like victory was like bigger and stuff like that, but I don't know like when you go into like the average if you just walk into the average if you have W Hall show in like 1996
[SPEAKER_03]: people have like, downcast shirts and those crudos patches on their bag.
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't have hate-breed and morauders shirts.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I think it's like very misguided.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think it's just like def reflection of what people's journey in this scene was, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like, like you're saying, like, downcast is a band that,
[SPEAKER_00]: is lost the sands of time, but if you talk to anyone from that era, they were the band.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love that band.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're great.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, even struggle, like, dude, like, I think struggling.
[SPEAKER_03]: Fucking amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, they're so influential in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm sure they weren't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to put any words in these dudes' mouths, but I'm sure they weren't even considered.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, looking at the bands on here, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, but it's their list, but then like they're like I'm looking at it now and like the right in the selections.
[SPEAKER_03]: Lifetime and 108 are right in.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know, maybe this is like a regional thought, but dude Lifetime and 108.
[SPEAKER_03]: To me, we're two of the most influential bands of the 90s, like.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, maybe I'm maybe I'm tripping, you know, but and then also like bastard being on here, like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like it's, I want to do a faster one.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, faster.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: And but it's crazy because like the person who is the biggest champion for bastard is Simon Harvey, who also reissue the modern mind's record.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That that I featuring today's gas mober.
[SPEAKER_00]: on the, on turn it upon.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, um, yeah, bastard was like just like, he was the guy that champion that band.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were obviously other people in the States, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there was that like, if you ever seen that weird comp called stealing the pocket?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a comp that has a lot of bands on it, but it has frail and death side on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's pretty crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to talk.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's LP.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's obviously, you know, a not an unreleased death is not an exclusive death side at all, but I want to say it came out of PA or Jersey.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not sure I don't have one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say death side would have been probably bigger than bastard fact that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but I'm just saying like maybe like people in that maybe like more like heavy DIY scene where the ones clue into that stuff not the you know the heavy hardcore scene like you know the the hate breeds and stuff like that like if anything like Japanese stuff
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I mean, and also like in my eyes, isn't on this list, which is really crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did I miss integrity?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, check your stuff, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're on here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, they're good, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like there's definitely, like when I saw Stigma to Amplett for Bloodplay in Toronto to five people,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like, yeah, you know, like I saw both bands play in any Coke, you know, Dan Mills book them at the westside park and they the shows were lit and stuff, but like it wasn't like fucking seeing grade or you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like bands that were actually popular at that time.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's here.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know that's somebody that, yeah, his heroes gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: I brought up a bunch talking about this with friends.
[SPEAKER_03]: and then also like dude like spas.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, spas.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, is AFI a hardcore band to you?
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not a hardcore band.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, they would describe themselves as a hardcore band.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Davey's role in, he denies this, but like I've heard that he was the first guy to bring like,
[SPEAKER_03]: are dancing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, are pitting to the west coast and he denies it, but like everyone should not to the west coast, but I'm going to be to sorry the Bay Area.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I believe he's a hardcore dude, but they are on a puss head compilation and they do negative approach covers, but all backed up with I'm saying also, I don't think life of agony or biohazard belong on this list.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I definitely feel like biohazard does not belong on this list like they were hardcore For a hot minute, but like I don't think I'm saying they weren't even but maybe like regionally like in New York like where that that they were like, you know Demoera when they were super sketchy like yeah, yeah, I don't know it's to be like the biohazard and life of Agony Yeah, they they have hardcore roots like head like
[SPEAKER_03]: Undeniable, you know, and I love both of those bands like in a lot, you know, and you know, even in the 90s, you know, obviously.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there to me, there's crossover bands.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, there's 90, so like can you put helmet in here, can you put on the saying in here, like to me, they're the same as that.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were more like urban, of course, because they were from Brooklyn, but you know, I don't know, to me,
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't belong in here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not mad at it, but if I was going through, I would take them out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I saw a trial, and they were sick when I saw them at the Gilman one time, but I would not put trial in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, if I'm being honest, like for that era, if I was putting a band that, you know, like Boise, it's fire.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like no one wants to admit that now,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, or ignite to ignite like I was wondering why they don't have ignite in here is I mean, I'm not a huge ignite fan or anything, but just if they're putting AFI in here, they're not putting it night and like, yeah, I don't know there's like almost no like early 90's new age kind of I mean, I guess, strife and unbroken but like, I don't know like outspoken and or like initial stuff like four walls falling and about peace.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it now if he's not on here, I don't see you know, maybe I missed it.
[SPEAKER_00]: My eyes are so bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to call up a version.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could zoom in because I was like trying to make out some of the fonts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, no, like, and I obviously realized this band is cool and and I get it, but kick back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, dude, no one knows new who came back.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like Rick to life had their stuff in his distro and stuff because you know, he yeah, but like do they know this is it's but again, like This I understand like the I don't want them to get mad like I understand this list isn't like the biggest or the most influential hardcore bands in that time I know that that's not what this list is supposed to be but for some reason I just can't stop myself from looking at it like that
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's why I love this stuff and that's like because it makes people like that's why anytime like a magazine does like the best punk records ever thing I like devour it because because like Like we're never gonna like there's no definitive list right like and you're in my list would be so different You know if you ever come up with brackets Yeah, yeah, I think from the point of view you're trying to say like who who is like
[SPEAKER_03]: Like who were the the 90s bands that were like defining the era like move in the needle and like setting the precedence and like one thing I said I asked them like why converge wasn't on here and he said because they're
[SPEAKER_03]: They're like pivotal stuff they're known for is from I guess the 2000s in his mind, but I totally disagree with that right like maybe if you weren't around then you don't you might not know like how big they were and how like
[SPEAKER_03]: they do they changed they had like beat down bands like straight up switching genres yeah like look at one for one bro like one for one went from New York hardcore it's a fucking weirdo Scremo metal with like you know what I mean like straight up like so many bands tried to be like conversion the 90s and
[SPEAKER_03]: To me like if they're saying like Jane Doe and after that like to me that's when like they did their own thing outside of hardcore They were still a hardcore band and played in the hardcore scene for sure, but like I don't know the to me that's when they became like a Boris or something like that where they were like doing their own cool thing that like everyone was like damn that's like No roses.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly like starting their own lane.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, but in the 90s like they were like really setting trends in the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: So in my opinion
[SPEAKER_03]: that, you know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if anything, you could even say like, that should take might take hatred out of here and put them in the 2000s, kind of, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I don't know, like satisfaction is the death of desire to me was like, like that kind of was the, like, you know, the record that defined the era and kind of ended the era.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, was there a single
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, like as impactful as that, like obviously in other genres, but I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know what you mean, but I think, dude, I think, I think people didn't like the height of people like sweating them and shit kind of came out in like the 2000s of my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of think no warning me that no warning opening for them was like, yeah, they were like, but it was almost like,
[SPEAKER_00]: They turned into a different thing, obviously very different than Converge did, but like, faster than Converge did, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether it was like a hatred thing was like,
[SPEAKER_00]: it was almost crossing over to something else at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like in the same way, I wouldn't put neurosis as a 90s band because by the time the 90s rolled around, they were kind of like their own thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to me, their 80s is like they're more kind of like when they were having the impact on hardcore, with everything they were doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Even still like to me, they're hardcore like how like,
[SPEAKER_03]: They're like the 90s version of the corrosion conformity to me, I can see that, you know, like they're more crossover with punk hardcore roots.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I don't know, like I said this to a couple of people.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if someone who I said this to was hearing this, I'm sorry that we could be repeating myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: But watch a video of Marauder in 1995 and then watch a video of Los Cudos and tell me who was fucking bigger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, most of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Los Cudos definitely to me are, you know, and his hero's gone popped dead.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, drop dead.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, as I could headline headline these fests and and just like pack them out But like you say early nineties and slightly different too like this stuff
[SPEAKER_00]: like california stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think you're like, use it the new age things when I'm like, yeah, there's also like stuff a little bit further up to and in Berkeley and so it's yeah, I love this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very fun to kind of like try and figure out who doesn't doesn't fit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's like the best thing about this stuff is a creates conversation, makes people check out bands that might know what otherwise check out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but I also think like
[SPEAKER_03]: Also only living witness, people didn't know who only living witness were until the 2000s dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I heard of, I knew who they were in the 90s and stuff, but I don't think I even heard them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like they weren't a fucking hardcore band.
[SPEAKER_03]: They weren't looked at as a hardcore band in the scene for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were like, across overband, like a typo,
[SPEAKER_03]: trying to be like a type of negative or something like that in my opinion from what I I was young then too, so like I was a little dumbass, but this is just kind of like how I remember seeing things, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I could be wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: But with all like it's like one of those everlasting dodge stoppers, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like where there's just like these layers that are kind of slightly different and you know people's experiences with things are obviously going to be
[SPEAKER_00]: like I remember going around trying to get like the brotherhood records and all these people being like who the fuck cares about brotherhood like you know back in the day no one cared about brotherhood when they played here right and I'm like yeah but it's like the best seven inch from that era so I totally understand that that how that feels and that kind of energy where like your perspective changes so much like if you weren't around for it right like
[SPEAKER_00]: At the time, or also where you were around for it, you may have a very kind of like northeast kind of bias to our, we got that East Coast bitterness as we talk about in this up in an upcoming episode on turn that on yeah and I think like just like hearing like dawn of wars insight and take like take on hardcore and how he views it like
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, like, I understand how like it could rub people the wrong way, who.
[SPEAKER_03]: Kind of value and like view hardcore in this like hard, lowerian view of like hard, like proper hardcore, you know, but like.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know man, like.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the best shows in the night and he's like, didn't have mashing in them at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know, I just kind of think like that's what hardcore is missing now and why fucking sucks is there's not that, you know, like he was saying like rabble, they were rabble browsers, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like they were just like challenging everything and you know, you challenge everything now.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're first of all, you're gonna fucking end up in the hospital.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's issue number one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, but so I guess it's impossible to be like them now, but they had like hard friends, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, like in the scene they were playing in like the, you know, they weren't, they were pulling this stuff at e-town concrete shows.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, things are from what I understand, things are really pretty divided in Philly, then you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, there were guys going to most mouth shows, they didn't, they've never saw in kindergarten.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's completely different, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, that's how it wasn't will spare, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, it crossed over a little bit here and there, but, um,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, dude, watch a video of like fucking, uh, card is a cult, like there's no moshing, there's no hard shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like nerds in like hordroom glasses, like, you know, like that shit, like that was what was popping and at hardcore shows until, you know, I think that was also the thing is because Braille were such a definitive band of the era before and the shift of,
[SPEAKER_00]: alignments between frail and ink and dagger where it goes from like lawful good to carry on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, on a neutral at best, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It really like, I know it threw a lot of people throw a loop.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've certainly had like friends that when I bring it up in the episode that went down and hung out and were like, these guys are fucking terrifying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, really, really scary.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I mean, I think like, maybe it was like a regional thing because like, like the mischievous kind of shit was like, pretty prevent and like, you know, even in like the non-tuff guy scene,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, so like, yeah, I know what you mean, but um, but it wasn't like the Cleveland thing, you know, like Cleveland was like known for like fireworks and yeah, and Toronto definitely ate that like really hard, you know, and like the idea of like
[SPEAKER_00]: Like left for dead, like throwing chairs at the audience and like beating up people in the crowd was like definitely like part of the yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, why experience here for shows?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the Philly vibe and the Philly area vibe was just more like scary, like really scary for some of these people, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like some of these bands were like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, not necessarily even in Dagger, but like their bands that like, you know, we're like seem fun on the surface, but we're like terrifying when you're really like dove into what was going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, maybe, but like I said, I think there was a pretty deep line in the sand between those two scenes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I think like the the more the incandagricide of that line in the sand, it was just more like
[SPEAKER_03]: pretentiousness in like a cool way.
[SPEAKER_03]: And using it as a weapon, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, that's almost like what incandagger was, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, just kind of like this like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't really even know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm too stupid to, I couldn't roll with these dudes probably because I'm not smart enough.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know how to put it into words.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just like, remember that I'm doing shit and I was younger and just being like damn these guys are like, on to something that I can't really, I don't know about yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, just, you know, from what I understand, like they were the, the early guys like following,
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, shoogays and, you know, weird, you know, indie music from, you know, outside of hardcore and the getting into a drum and bass and going to raves and shit like that, like, you know, that's, that's dope, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like that was also kind of like the archetype of the post-Euthcrew kind of person, right, of the post-like.
[SPEAKER_03]: But this was before that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you know, guys to getting into that stuff for like, I guess it would have been probably around the same time up here that there's like it's the beginning of what would ultimately become kind of I guess like the hip kind of hipster thing of the early thousands, right, but like yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I feel like there was just like a movement towards people kind of like getting into I guess there's so many hard work is like in records for us all the time, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it just breeds getting into more kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And look, I look, dude, I love the agnostic.
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually don't love agnostic front as much as the next guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I love agnostic front, and I understand
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't think victim and pain is like one of the greatest hardcore workers of all time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably the greatest record.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but not everyone is comfortable with just recreating that.
[SPEAKER_03]: you know what I mean and and like I like that you know like I don't I don't care about someone who went to college's recreation of victim and pain I hate their recreation of victim and pain it fucking sucks you know what I mean I hate that you know if you
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what I think the problem is with hardcore now like not now for the last like fucking, you know, 20 years like whole world included, you know, it's just like it's too much cosplay and it's not enough fucking progression and and I think like that's what
[SPEAKER_03]: Don and Sean and those guys were all about and I think it like pushes people's buttons and I also Don't totally agree with all of their Their tastes and their takes either you know what I mean like Don says You know he'd never understood like he never cared about like the killing time LP.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know like or you know He's like you know those guys doing karate and New Jersey like you know Which is fucking hilarious you know I love that he said that but
[SPEAKER_03]: I love watching a fucking bulldoze at fucking studio one video and seeing Stickman doing karate, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think like when you said to him, you were like, yeah, but like, you know, that stuff is kind of like,
[SPEAKER_03]: The opposite end where it's almost like street rock and roll like their view of things I could tell like he hasn't he hasn't thought of that in a while because he's like Huh, like he actually had like a fucking visceral really quick split second reaction to that And you know what I mean and he's so deep into his Stick not stick because it's really what he believes, but like this his view that he never like thought like to like Maybe like
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe there's like something really dope about Marauder if I look back on it and you know what I mean because there is like the fucking dude the Marauder lyrics are Marauder is fucking amazing you know what I mean but you have to like kind of like you know like because I yeah that's what I love about punk and that's what I've always like I want and an honest reflection of the person's experience in mindset yeah that's what I like I think that's when it's at its best when you have
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, and that could be like whatever that is, that could be someone trying to be highfalutin or it can be someone just kind of like singing about their reality, but like, I don't know, I think that's, that's what I'm always like looking for in this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like, yeah, like I think there's also though a little bit of like a regional bias when they can dagger,
[SPEAKER_00]: And you because like I feel like beyond the first seven inch, I feel like there were a lot of people like throwing shade at them outside of that kind of general area.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like like especially by the time the first LP happens like I feel like there was a lot of like vitral like oh they're the vampire band like it almost like painted them into a corner a little bit as I kind of brought up to them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it was an experiment, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it was, it was a, yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know, I know, Don talks about talks about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like it was like a really planned out thing that they really thought about.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, and I wonder, you know, I believe him.
[SPEAKER_03]: But,
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then also, you know, they've done a couple of tours by then and probably stole shit from people and did, or did whatever they do, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: So I get it, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do, I guess I do have a regional bias, but, you know, I love them, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like they were not, like I don't know if they would show up, if I was making a bracket of the bands from the 90s that, you know, like,
[SPEAKER_03]: like we're the biggest banter in that era, like yeah they would for me but I would understand why someone outside of PA and New Jersey it might not, they might not show up for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Would chokehold show up for you?
[SPEAKER_03]: thousand percent.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I was talking about it with Scott Vogel in Toronto, and that's what he brought up.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, dude, chokehold.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, I don't even really like them, but you know, like, you can't fucking deny it, you know, to that era.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and dude to me, like, you know, you know, I think we were talking about hatred before on here, and I said, like, what's great and great about like the hatred record is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Each wreck each song is like about a different thing that like almost all hardcore people think.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or like, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: And to me, that's like what like, chokehold is like the 90s.
[SPEAKER_03]: Content with dying is like the 90s so-d on screen printed patch version of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or it's like every like dumbass PC kid in the 90s take on every political issue.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like each song is the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I feel about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're talking about that, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I love content with dying.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that record.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a assac also was like a band that every patch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, a patch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Back then.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, hold on my, my one crazy cat came in here and he, he's very hungry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to.
[SPEAKER_03]: He might be records.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and full alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I'm looking at the writings now, too, on here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they should have to hard work.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of cool work on this, because it's, I don't know what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm going back to the brackets now and looking at the write-ins to see, like zero tolerance, no one.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's insane, zero tolerance, this is insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love them, I love the band so much, but yeah, into another two, like I,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I possibly do into another we're really fucking popular and we'll spare with the people like the dues of the generation will for me fucking worship into another, but I don't I don't know if I put them in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I were going to do bands that
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, shifted the needle, not necessarily in a positive way, but bands that certainly caused a lot of conversation, there could be an argument for what life crew being there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm not mad at them being on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, dude, I don't know if I can best think you want to put in front of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, born against isn't on here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's that you're right born against that's like what the fuck yeah, you're right for the against the Lord against the Lord on here with the fucker we've been talking about yeah born against our non here but fucking arc arc of Arcongi what is our angel I don't know that fucking logo and it's on here yeah, like no hardcore person knows what that is
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm like, I think like, you definitely would need to have board against Crudeau's, and I'd say his hero's gone in terms of like the bands that were Uber, Uber popular.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, would you describe bikini kill as a hardcore band?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not even a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well they're connected, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're on comps.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the guy who's making argument that AFI is a hardcore band.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would make that argument that bikini kills a hardcore band.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is why that I have an issue with that is because I think you would have an even better argument to say Chamberlain.
[SPEAKER_03]: and promissory.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah, because those bands were I'd be honest with you guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like that's what really was ringing off in the heart.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're seeing it in the news.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, throw the get-up kids on the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Get-up kids in the 90s had motion just as hard as any of these bands.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Philly, I'll tell you that much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: free victory like yeah separate the magnets in such as progress like those records were everybody had those records ginormous yeah like we're definitely second nature you know i think had that probably like kind of a lock on things for a hot minute there I'm probably thinking of some other second nature band blood brothers
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like at the 2000s.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess 2000s.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say that's hardcore personally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It connects, but yeah, like I think adjacent like you said before Yeah, I don't like four punch two like I love four punch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a four punch jacket.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a every single record, but Like I feel like you need the other side of that beef reflected and you need someone from that sort of Louisville scene also on this
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think Louisville isn't showing up here, but what would be the Louisville band like guilt?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know anyone with that actually like, I know that's the thing like guilt.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were almost like not they were almost like an industry plan, you know, it is said because of like their X members and like label tie like no one actually liked them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I'll all go back and try because I'll get in my like 90s hardcore bag and I'm like man I never really guilt never click, but I get I'm so in this bag right now I bet it'll hit right now That never does.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know like I love for what was falling Falling forward Right falling forward is the alley it forward fall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and end point
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, end point.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think I would say outspoken before end point, even though they're not going to reveal obviously, but I always think of those bands together just because they're like the early 90s straight edge bands.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also disembodied, like Mike from fucked up loved them, they were definitely like a buzz band, but I think like I would say convert
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I understand why these guys think disembodied, disembodied were big in the 90s.
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew people who liked them a lot and they are another one of those kind of converges bands that crossed over into the tough guy, seen a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I agree, Colesc, Colesc were like headlining fests and shit around here, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: The converge Colesc split was that was like the inspected deck record of DIY hardcore, or maybe not DIY hardcore at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever that scene was, but like I remember people like were freaking out about that thing before it came out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like looking at dog house records right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: thread bear, they weren't that big, cable weren't that big.
[SPEAKER_03]: Chamber, dude, to me, like split lip in Chamberlain weren't fucking really big.
[SPEAKER_03]: But lip in Chamberlain, you're right, they were definitely... Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I personally love both.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love split lip in Chamberlain.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'd say you've like, quote, it's called life on this?
[SPEAKER_00]: They are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say more than called life earth mover was kind of like the more popular to end from Detroit back then.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, cold is life, we're not popular.
[SPEAKER_00]: like they just they weren't big like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was uh but then once again like I think best is definitely like something that changes the conversation and then it's exactly exactly yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's and then it's much more reflective of taste.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because if it's best, yeah, sure, cold is life, I don't look, I'm not super into cold is life, but I understand like they're they fucking rock, but then like do like some of the writings like do sand black church like, no, no, no, definitely in Boston, only in Boston, they would be like very regional, grim lock, no, it'd be like me saying hockey
[SPEAKER_00]: which is a band that no one has side of this airfield would know.
[SPEAKER_03]: But any Sam Black Church, they were, what were they on?
[SPEAKER_03]: They were on a big label, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They were on a big label.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might have even been on Tang, were they on Tang?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they did something on Tang, but I think they might have even gone to Lake.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe I'm just confusing it with a wrecking crew, but like they were on like road runner or one of those kind of like labels maybe I don't think sand by church.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, maybe I'm just confusing it with maybe though, I don't know, I think it all's
[SPEAKER_00]: Sick of it all see I think I think of them as a 80s band I sort of why but I think like like in terms of like the records like I go back and listen to I got into them in the 90s Yeah, but built to last was like Giant normus Hmm for a record and scratch the surface too was like yeah, scratch the surface was big and But built to last around is 92 right yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: But when it's built to last, like 97, 98, 96, that's scratched the surface.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so like that, I feel like that record was the bridge record for the pop punk kids getting into New York hardcore.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because that was on fat wreck, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that was on a major label still East West and then yeah, and then the next one's on fat wreck, which is the one that everyone is not as much a fan of.
[SPEAKER_00]: But built the last like came out on the vinyl, they have the straight egg cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, bonus track and they, they were like stealing
[SPEAKER_00]: bills with all these popunk bands like they would go to the warp tour.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they would sell it in March before they were there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were on the warp tour was like them, the descendants, H.O.
[SPEAKER_00]: social stores and they were like one of the biggest straws that year.
[SPEAKER_00]: It felt like.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, dude, does H to O go on here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're talking about bands that were like massive back then in the 90s, like yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you get into the
[SPEAKER_00]: like, sonically, what is hardcore versus what is punk?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you need to be sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Other songs are about hardcore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is like, like, that's the thing, like, lifetime.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one's putting lifetime on there for the fucking new age LP.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, like it's for the pop punk records, but it is, but do those to me, those are the melodic hardcore records.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those aren't pop punk.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then it's heart for Jason.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to make that argument about all those other bands for me, that's heart for Jason at that.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I, I, I feel like they were a hundred percent part of the heart we're seeing the whole way through.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, Sonically, like, then being on there, I guess is like, makes as much sense as AFI being on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think lessons
[SPEAKER_00]: Because at this point, then we're going to have to open up like no effects call themselves a hardcore band.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Just no effects wind up on the best hardcore list, fans of the 90s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm being honest, like this is the thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is the problem with the hardcore and the punk thing that the vibe is the effect.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: That Mike would say he's a hardcore band.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were a hardcore.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it has to be like heavy ass shit to be hardcore like to meet to me lifetime still hardcore So then there's no effects hardcore Because they define themselves as being hardcore.
[SPEAKER_03]: They start into the hardcore band in the 80s no because lifetime even those those last two records.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're still straight up straight fast hardcore songs on them with breakdowns and shit
[SPEAKER_03]: and also i don't know to me like those early lifetime records like the new age stuff i love those records that i think they're fucking great like if they aged really well to to me like the background lp if you go and listen to that now it's like it sounds so different and interesting like not interesting just like i don't know if a bank came out out like that sounded like that now i'll be so cool i love lifetime the whole way through and have loved that like
[SPEAKER_00]: every record since back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're saying that they can get on this list, and I'm going to put the new bomb Turks destroy a boy, which has breakdowns.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fast as fuck.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds more like a hardcore record than in terms of best answers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to record though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but like there are other records keep that sonic tradition.
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of go in rightly they're not quite as hardcore as that record, but like that would be a hundred percent on my list of you know what it is to me it's like you had to be in the hardcore scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but then it's like then we're talking about Turks or not, but will they were for their area, but like because they knew the inept guys and they were like kind of like all Columbus hardcore kind of like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Connected right like I don't know just you're right like you I guess but like no effects once again Calls themselves hardcore.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do I think they belong on this list not necessarily but it's like fall-out boy calling themselves hardcore because it's like it's like a it's like They it's like a Fucking luxury But no effects to be able to call themselves that but no effects came out of the Doug moody world
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the uh, this is why these things are so fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look, this is How do you feel about VOD?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was never really a fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw them a bunch back then and it was just so yeah, like I like the stuff with like speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's my bias kind of showing through like
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like there's a lot of stuff on here that that, you know, would be falling to the tough kind of banter that I did like because there were fast parts don't get me wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I fucking love damn nation 80 like forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Collect damn nation 80 records.
[SPEAKER_00]: Battery should be on there over damn nation 80.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a shame that battery isn't on here.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's because battery a lot of people now have like.
[SPEAKER_00]: weird baggage around them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know why necessarily because I know never really gives me a answer and like, oh, this is why, but like, yeah, like at the time, they were, you know, the band, more than damn nation 80 ever was at the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love thinking about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I could think about this all day.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think to spare overbearing a life.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_03]: term oil or a cool band, but they shouldn't be on here, that's that's very regional in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but they were dope though.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm I mean, I'd rather than be on here than some of the other shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not am I?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like it's because like bastard just rings like
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what's the band above hate breed?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, crown of thorns.
[SPEAKER_03]: Crown of thorns.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'll give you crown of thorns.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they were deadly.
[SPEAKER_03]: They weren't like super active though.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, and it feels like also by the end of the 90s, it had all shifted to scarhead.
[SPEAKER_00]: scarhead.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the scarheads were almost like a,
[SPEAKER_03]: Even though Scar had where the project banned, it seems like Scar had did way more than crown coins, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Scar did the warp tour, or they had the record on victory.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly were more internationally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I don't know, Crown Thorns might have done Europe a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the other thing, like, Europe was such a place for these bands to kind of tour and kind of like live out their whole career in Europe too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I always forget about that, like that later, like Crown Thorns LP2 with like the cigar wrapper at work.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I always forget about that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think my scoofed like $500 now but What a bloodlet should bloodlet be on here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love bloodlet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you love bloodlet?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I got, like, look at this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got my, I got all the records, but I also got the smorgas board tape.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then solid answer, the pre bloodlet band.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, what is this sound like?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like a more hardcorey vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't was doing it in a long time, but I remember really liking it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got a solid, solid answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: The hard way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's then they also have an ax on the logo.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of get a vibe that it's like, you know, a little more straightforward kind of hardcore vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember it had like kind of hard-line-ish lyrics.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, when did the Alperse 7 is coming out?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it 89 or is it 91?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm trying to think now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Charles Bronson also, like that being 1989, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: 89, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, Charles Bronson, what the fuck?
[SPEAKER_00]: But Charles Bronson also was like, kind of like reach no, I guess they toured a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, dude.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Charles Bronson were a fucking big.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm trying to be also like, but I can't imagine these guys,
[SPEAKER_03]: appreciate you, Charles Bronson.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Charles Bronson.
[SPEAKER_00]: I fucking loved them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were definitely like my brother make my favorite pants for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: Leave a time that L.P. came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be stuff though, also.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard from the early 90s that would have been.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... a veil yes that's what jort was talking about this to George from blacklisted he's he said it's crazy a veils not on here totally yeah spot on yeah a veil and battery should be on here it's crazy you know
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, trying to think of bands that people like you to cry going to see going to see great and I've seen great open for propaganda prior and then maybe another time, no, it's in complain accurate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And being like, I just didn't get it, you know, like I was still like very much kind of like in a pop on kind of into the victory hardcore stuff and like just kind of crossing over to hardcore stuff around that time and then I want to see a veil and great open and all those guys from that band DBS were there and they were like,
[SPEAKER_00]: like you guys here to see a veil because they were playing up the street with doom playing around.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a crazy story.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was I'm like to the DBS guys like are you guys here to see a veil?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like no no we're see great.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like he's like I called my friend back home last night and told her I was gonna see great today and she started crying.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like they're the greatest band of all time like you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think a thing's going off in the
[SPEAKER_03]: burn and super touch and inside out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to say inside out, but inside out, it's like inside out, and they were like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't around for what it hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it was a phenomenon once it hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like people just like freaked out immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the first person in that seven just like 4,000 copies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's what Rev was kind of pressing around then.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if we're just going off of the premise that these guys are going off of, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: We're like, who had the best record?
[SPEAKER_03]: And was like classic record to this day it's been a whole load forever.
[SPEAKER_03]: inside out record is right up there with fucking victim and pain to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, then then if we're going like records, yeah, like that's like, see like that's the thing is like if the criteria's like live show, you know, cultural impact, I think that's like a different thing than just like records, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, obviously, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm seeing there, from there of you of what this is, just
[SPEAKER_00]: It has to be just what they who that will what they think who made the best in music Yeah, because I buy the road because like it feels like hatred to me then Is not it for the 90s because there's one LP for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is though because to them to them That's the greatest right hatred is what we're seeing victim in pain, but I'm saying like for me then I feel like it's got to be a band that had
[SPEAKER_00]: birth of records, you know, like more than like one, you know, like inside out wouldn't be because they have one incredible seven inch, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I know, but that, but isn't that what hardcore is, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think like I feel like then it becomes, well yeah, you're right, like you like who had the most impactful like single greatest seven inch versus who had the most
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, integrity is the only band that put out like multiple relevant LPs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I agree that I can think of off the top of my head.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I board against had two LPs worth of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But integrity, I feel like to me, the answer to this, to this bracket is integrity personally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they were also a band that
[SPEAKER_00]: like people turned so much after that one life crew riot thing, it felt like.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just was like a divide and I think the back half of the 90s for integrity are super interesting and I feel like the records they put out are some some records that I like love but that mid-period of records that they put out are just like untouchable, like the ten inch, the first LP
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a mean that, yeah, nothing, nothing really touches them for this time period.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like who, who are hardcore bands that put out multiple great LPs?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one of the coolest world I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And friends and company excluded, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, like even like first wave bands, circle jerks,
[SPEAKER_00]: put out more than like I'm saying more than their peers black flag of course put it yeah black flag multiple incredible I mean that like to me like madball yeah madball I feel like I feel like madball also could be a real strong argument could be made for them winning this whole bracket thing mm-hmm I feel like maybe then more than hatred
[SPEAKER_00]: in terms of, like, a band that existed throughout the 90s, like, hey, Freed, like you're saying, the argument can be made for them in the 2000s as much it could be made for the late 90s.
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, you know what's weird?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, who, like, really sounds like, man ball?
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't really think of any band that like, you know, this just sounds like set it off, you know, like there's obviously like bands that sound like integrity, there's bands that sound like, what was the other band we were just talking about in with these dudes?
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, dude, I'll say even hate read like, yeah, I've never heard a band that sounds as in fucking hard and intense with that writing style as the satisfaction LP like I've never heard anyone do that correctly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I feel like like the madball record, the madball records are just so.
[SPEAKER_00]: so hard-hitting and so impactful that it was almost like two real for people at the time because it was just like, but hey, pretty stuff like people appreciated as it was happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just from like a musical standpoint though, like the songwriting from that ball was fucking incredible.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also fast, too, like the role of the red hate breed in, in, in, marble.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm saying, like they had, like, it really fucking hits, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, and, marble, like, mix, like, fast with bounce and the strong writing is, like, really, like, considered, you know, instead of, like, just thrown riffs together, which I feel like a lot of bands that probably, like, try to sound like, marble, that's what they do when they miss that, that finesse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I feel like the, I feel like Madball at any period, but certainly at that time, the energy of Madball show was just like, it was like always like, wow, this is, it's only gonna flip the map all switch at any moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this can't real while, not that they freed and, like, obviously, blood for blood and these, and I'm also experiencing it in Toronto, Canada, so it's certainly a different vibe, but, you know, all those bands had certainly like,
[SPEAKER_03]: energy to it but nothing nothing compared to a map all so yeah you know like one like thing I'll say like to put a cap on this maybe like we could talk with this for like seven hours this could be his own podcast and I would gladly co-host it a friend of mine sent me a dude on some MMA guy some MMA guy I don't know MMA at all
[SPEAKER_03]: but he's on like that dude, Theo Vaughn's podcast and Theo Vaughn's like, hey man, it's true, you sang in a band.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the guy was, he's like tattooed up dude.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I guess he sang in like multiple hardcore bands in Long Island.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, what's that man?
[SPEAKER_03]: What's hardcore?
[SPEAKER_03]: And he like explains a two woman shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he tells him about CBGBs and stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, bring, bring, put CBGBs up on the screen.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he like reads the fucking Wikipedia.
[SPEAKER_03]: started by Hilly Christel, you know, reading it like it's fucking so fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to watch it, but um, I don't know, I watch this like 20 minute clip of them talking about hardcore and it's just like fucking sucks that like, this is the second time the hardcore got brought up like, via like, like,
[SPEAKER_03]: MMA people and like, of course, of course, that it goes this way, but I responded on like, you know, they talk about hardcore for 20 minutes and like there's not one mention of it like being about like trying to like inspire fucking social change or fucking any kind of awareness or at being underground or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you guys do that thing where you line everybody up and you run into each other?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because like, well, it's like, this is what, like, dude, this is, that is where how you get this fucking list is because that is what hardcore is now.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what they would, instead of like fucking talking about, like, the kind of shit that fucking dawn of the war was talking about.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're just talking about like fucking fake punching and kicking each other.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like,
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what it's devolved into, unfortunately, it's a bummer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I feel like even then it was, there was always that kind of divide, too, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, there was sort of, but you see, but dude, yeah, but like, even in that part of the scene,
[SPEAKER_03]: like 25 to life or whatever, like they would always fucking talk about DIY, at least, and shit like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some kind of fucking ethics or something about like, it was always about how it's like different than then metal.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're like, yeah, you know, I'll go up with the fucking metal, but then there wasn't real and this stuff is real.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like there wasn't anything like that, you know, it was just like, oh, it's not as big as that, let's say, it's not as popular.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's not enough people to do the wall of death unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know that shit's like what the fuck man like it I don't know like it sucks I first saw my saw a wall of death in real life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like This is Tom is thing Because like people used to do it in CBGVs, right, but it was like like a what like five person Yeah, 10 person wall at most but to see like
[SPEAKER_00]: 50 kids lined up facing 50 kids like little kids running at each other like full speed like 10 rows deep just be like this is the same but I like it
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if there's going to be when the next band is going to try and do the fugazzy or at the drive in or even bikini kill like no mashing that shows.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's never going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really do think it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think there's like a pendulum that swings in hardcore and punk where it goes in and out of vote.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like there's going to be something that's going to kind of like
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean to be like a naysay or a doomsayer for things, but I feel like, I don't know, I feel like a change is going to kind of come with that sort of like style of dancing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that as soon as you do that, it's just going to turn it into a whole separate thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to just be completely separate thing, you know, like kind of like how like kids are having this like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Screamo scene happening now like that's completely separate from the hardcore scene, right like you know To be like that that scene is probably More hardcore than the this hardcore scene we're talking about in my opinion, but it's separate from what I understand Yeah, look I feel like they're they're weird kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: crossover points, but nowhere like you used to be where I think these scenes were like very close together, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Jason from the orchid was asked to play base in April.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, there's like an orchid in April or like kissing cousins, practically.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I orchid on this list.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe orchids on this list.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or orchid more than 2,000, though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Were they maybe you're right.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't know from what I remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was never a fan age 99 an orchard of every 90s.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean the chaos is me is like 99 and that's like to me What they're almost known for?
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember were then those records are showing up in an Abuelition and it being like a real divest of thing What you know once again as everything was back then
[SPEAKER_03]: They're really late late 90s though 98 like their demo was 97 if hey breeds taking this thing They are definitely that period.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah I mean maybe a little before yeah cuz when was the 7 inch 95 96 I want to say 96
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was a long period between the seven inch and that'll be it seemed like right yeah, yeah, it was definitely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was a chat thing we should respond to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what are these fools saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's chat is
[SPEAKER_00]: Ryan Gosling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that was the game I was trying to remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much You like straight up like don't think buffy the vampire slayer TV show sucks It got you got more interesting as far as the show this has been like the first of the second season, but yeah, no, I was never really a fan
[SPEAKER_03]: I never really watched it, but I know like Philly only was like obsessed with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think all the DVDs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see that, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's always a weird look when there was someone who was obsessed with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, is this like, you know, like someone who's reading Harry Potter?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, I don't know if you're like, 100% in for this.
[SPEAKER_03]: It makes me like it though.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then it's like that is just like,
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, no cycle like Phil is super into it, like makes me think it's cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've tried to think what I was like, what TV shows I loved back then in the 90s.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, dude, I loved sitcoms like Caroline in the city and fucking two guys a girl in a pizza place and shit like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like news radio.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was really in a news radio back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, news radio is rocked.
[SPEAKER_03]: What was the one, what was the one that,
[SPEAKER_03]: Andy Dick was on.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, radio, but I'm not thinking of news radio.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's on another one?
[SPEAKER_00]: Chat help us out.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you all think of killer cross stuff going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: If lifetime is hardcore is the movie life hardcore.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean,
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think the movie life is hardcore, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know enough about their music to say, you know, but I think if you're opening that up to them, I feel like you got to open up to like.
[SPEAKER_00]: all sorts of stuff on eyeball records that neither one of us wants to put over on this bracket list.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think movie life were kind of like more like newfound glorious type stuff that with like harder breakdowns like like a more of a hardcore feel for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: But and all that stuff's a direct result of life time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the lifetime shift had all like the shy wholeude guys doing newfound glory.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it saves the day like there's just so much stuff that was kind of
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I agree, but lifetime, I don't know, I don't know, they're like a ghost status to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that all these, like, you know, it's really hard to come up with the greatest ban for the 90s because they're so much great stuff in that period.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, those last two lifetime LPs are like, masterpieces to me, like, I don't know, masterpieces, but that's like as good as, I don't know, I can't imagine making like two LPs
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... but they never really kind of experienced it like as those records became legendary they broke up basically before new jerseys best answers even came out right yeah yeah like yeah like i don't remember seeing them around hello bastards up here and it was incredible but it certainly wasn't like you know when uh... careers played up here or is he was gone
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know we mean we got to play with them a couple of shows and me and Alex always talk about that today and we want to play with again for sure if possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, we can go on for this forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: You definitely rambling this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait, so did you have a pop culture topic to bring up?
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like mine would be very short because we spent a lot of time talking it, but I'm really...
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm up to keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm up to keep going too, but I also...
[SPEAKER_00]: I got three great things to talk about today too, so I think we're going to win a win of talking about those for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's shit.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted to talk to you, woege, because you do enjoy Canadian sitcoms about Can Rock, because I have, because this today on the show, I got Moberg, who played an incredible punk power pop band back in the day called Modern Minds.
[SPEAKER_00]: They put it a single in 81.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got a single right here.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... but then they went on and mow played in this bank all the pursuit of happiness and the pursuit of happiness are like ginormous like they did a uh... video back in the day for their song i'm an adult now which we talk about on the episode and that was like like underground kind of like not underground like it was played a much music but that was like
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm trying to think of what would be an American equivalent of it back then, but there's like a bunch of stuff like northern pikes is another band.
[SPEAKER_00]: This kind of came into conversation with my brother and I where he was like, do you think do you think like any one of the states knows about these bands?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like no, I guarantee no one does, but like northern pikes, pursuit of happiness,
[SPEAKER_00]: did this song called every time I look at you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I go blind and that got covered by who do you know Blowfish and became a hit in America for who do you know Blowfish?
[SPEAKER_00]: Dan, how's it covered?
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a cover of 5440.
[SPEAKER_00]: In 5440, we're on Mooma do law records.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fucking up the name, but that's like the Vancouver art.
[SPEAKER_00]: label that put out the first two albums of them before they signed to reprise.
[SPEAKER_00]: All these bands had massive careers in Canada.
[SPEAKER_00]: I imagine would have done some U.S. touring, but short of a couple bands getting buzzed in videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this whole era of Canadian music is just like, doesn't register at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think DOA,
[SPEAKER_00]: and those types of bands are more popular in America than these bands, even though they were much more commercial.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so weird, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going to send you some stuff because I'd love to hear what you think of it because these were like, yeah, like radio rock staples.
[SPEAKER_00]: They guess at the same time, like, an R-E-M would have been in America and I'm trying to think of like other bands that would have been played.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this like, for college drugs?
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess it would have been college rock,
[SPEAKER_00]: more to kind of like mainstream rock.
[SPEAKER_00]: Blue rodeo is another band from up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: They started as this band The High Fies power pop band and then they became much more kind of like roots.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's softer than X and it's more kind of like radio friendly, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then that sort of like you know, stuff coming at LA, blood and the saddle and those types of bands.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it also is very much kind of in keeping with that that it comes at a punk rock.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these were bands that like were like, number one on the charts up here, back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: We kind of had cool mainstream music weirdly during that time period.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, like, I guess tragedy hips probably the biggest band.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were almost like kind of going into a different era.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're going more going into the 90s.
[SPEAKER_03]: saw that name attractively hit, but they never had a hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That I know of.
[SPEAKER_00]: They would play America and there would be like 700 people there and it would be every Canadian from miles around and every American friend that they dragged there.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are like the Canadian metal bands?
[SPEAKER_00]: God, there's tons.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a great book about the history of metal in Toronto.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lee Aaron was like kind of our metal queen.
[SPEAKER_00]: She had like some big kind of crossover hits, but what's that band they made them move you about a couple years ago?
[SPEAKER_00]: And Ville.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Ville was here, but there's also like,
[SPEAKER_00]: way cooler bands, a blanket on every inch slaughter, sacrifice, slaughter, the Canadian slaughter, a chuck from death moved up to Canada for a while and joined Canadian slaughter and played with them before the first death LP.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like killer.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're they're stuff like super amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like yeah, there's a razor razor razor Right killer dwarves were kind of a more mainstream kind of like Metal kind of glam band There's tons of great stuff out of Montreal like Montreal had sort of like voivada up being like the biggest band But there's a lot of like crazy trash stuff and then in Vancouver you have blasphemy in death sentence and
[SPEAKER_00]: Like yeah, like a lot of great stuff at a bank Hoover.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's there's a lot of cool metal records.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's actually like a really cool Canadian metal right or like metal record from here that CBC records put out the bands called Northern Hayes and I believe they're from none of it and they're in a new it kind of like metal black Sabbath informed band.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like two records unbelievable band
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's like a lot of cool metal from up here, but it's like weird because it's like we're so close and certainly at a certain point, you know, some 41 and and simple plan and these bands crossover, but there's so much stuff that never made it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's very weird, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like it's there's like a band like Sloan from up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably the best one of the best
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, they'll, and they're the first to say it like they can tour Canada.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just don't tour America anymore because it just doesn't make sense for them financially because they can just tour Canada and be perfectly fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: But are they slimmed doesn't tour the US?
[SPEAKER_00]: Not really.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll do, they're like kind of like a band tour band in the US.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're like a, certainly a bus tour band in Canada.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are polvo from Canada?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, polvo is from
[SPEAKER_00]: North Carolina, but we Pluto is from Canada.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were like, they were on mint records and might have been on some stuff in the US comps as things back then because of like mint records have that deal with look at records for hot minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gob was another band that I think kind of crossed over a little bit to the stage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And but it gets weird like Canadian punk bands, like SNFU, DOA, personality crisis even, like it feels like they have more of a presence in America than this giant Canadian rock bands.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, even hip hop, like I tried to think of like 90s hip hop, like there's like
[SPEAKER_03]: What else?
[SPEAKER_03]: Grass, rascals, socrates, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Snow is probably the biggest, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he had like a big hit in the States.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sean Paul.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like my surferesh West.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think your knowledge goes deeper.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's ghetto concepts.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like this really cool northern touch was like, yeah, the posse cut, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They came out and like chalk layer was on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like this really cool obscure Canadian hip hop records.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I found a few over the years that I'm like had never heard of these guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: They certainly didn't have videos on much music that I
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like, yeah, there certainly was a thriving scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of great Canadian reggae records, because so much you're making artists moved up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember like, one early 90s Canadian record, are you always seen Dream Syndicate?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a Dream Warrior talk about this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Was it Dream Warriors?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Dream Syndicate's the American bands.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fucking awesome, but Dream Warriors, Dream Warriors had a hit with washer face in my sink.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was on top of the pops or something in the UK.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they were like weirdly, really popular in the UK for a hot minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see that, yeah, why should I face my singing then was there other big hit?
[SPEAKER_00]: My definition, my definition is this, my definition.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my definition of a poobastic lifestyle.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they never had it, they never had anything break through in the states.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I used to always see that their ads and hip-hop magazines in the early 90s.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, did you ever hear that Maestro Fresh West 45 King record that he did?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that might be the one that they play on a stretch in Bob.
[SPEAKER_00]: That might be, that's probably the one because that's like the really good one.
[SPEAKER_00]: that because he had let your backbone slide, which is a huge hit, the first major Canadian rap record, like number one hit up here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he moved to America and tried to, you know, work his way up in the states and did two 12 inches, I think, in the U.S. And they're both pretty expensive but unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm not sure which one it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: They they always played on stretch in Bob.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it was 94.
[SPEAKER_03]: 95.
[SPEAKER_03]: That makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: He never supposed to be on a rap song together, like I wrapped on the song, but yeah, this is me like, just like, uh, this got wrapper up here decisive, uh, had, had us both wrap on a song together.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it ever came out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mercy, come like, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: Second our fury five second and on one at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was definitely like Really so and trying to find their flow and not really finding it on my end Maybe why never came out Hit the cutting room for yeah, but I want to make you a playlist and Maybe I should find a way to share with everybody because I feel like there's like a lot of kid can rock anthems
[SPEAKER_00]: that, you know, this is music that's perfect for the cottage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is Matthew sweet from Canada?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's from the States.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was in a band, was his band of the states, buzz of delight.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it might have been called.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a Christmas record.
[SPEAKER_00]: They put out way back when.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, Canada, like trouble charger,
[SPEAKER_00]: I know the name, I don't remember any songs from him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like Hayden was another guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you'd love Hayden.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's like a they called the Can Rock Renaissance and it was like this period in like the mid-90s post-Nervana where I guess Canada was searching for its Nirvana and never found anything kind of like close to it really in that way but certainly a lot of weird and interesting bands got signed in the wake by the Canadian music industry
[SPEAKER_03]: Doboy's, yeah, they're a band that I discovered recently, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Got some hits, yeah, they're fucking good, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got some hits, they're dope.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll make a cuties too, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They definitely had a look.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever did ever send you the video that I'm playing in Jamaica?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God, it's one of the funniest videos.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did they have their dreads?
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... yet yet like uh... john john still has his dreads well cast and yet he married he's married to what's her name from uh... madman just could paray i believe damn
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but he lives in LA, but yeah, so guys dreads like when he was on the podcast he had his dreads, but this they're playing this show.
[SPEAKER_00]: They do a cover of final solution, uh, I, uh, rock from the tombs or Perubu, and it's just to a bunch of like super disinterested, like, frat looking kids that are all sitting on the ground on the beach, watching them play, and then.
[SPEAKER_00]: John for the band's smashes guitar into the atmosphere.
[SPEAKER_00]: So awesome and it was filmed for much music as part of their like much goes Jamaica where they would take a bunch of contest winners down to Jamaica for spring break.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I was going to say that's like must be their answer to like MTV spring break.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and it's so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That will uninterested these kids are.
[SPEAKER_03]: MTV and I get and must much music like
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we're so cool, just because all the weird shit that came out of them, you know, the early years of both of them, I think are are really what should be studied.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's what I would love to go back and see it where yeah, Crout had an MTV hit back then because there's just like nothing to play.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, let's play Crout and I feel like up here at much music
[SPEAKER_00]: It kind of lasted a little bit longer, like into the 90s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you look at a band like DBS who are like a bunch of little kids on this punk label from Vancouver that made this cool music video.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the next thing, you know, they're on much music and they're playing on much music.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or SNF, you would play on much music back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't it felt like much music was cooler longer but then eventually much music got so bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's the song who worked there
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say that there wasn't anything like homegrown like that, like with MTV obviously in the 90s, but I don't know, cool stuff's definitely still broke through, you know, like, I don't know, like it's crazy like a shudder to think where it was been then, you know what I mean, shit like that, like there was definitely
[SPEAKER_00]: like Dan's egg and brawling and like weird shit like that too, but you're right show to think it's a little cool in that and so yeah I feel like I feel like with MTV maybe it's on fuse there's a lot of like lost media stuff that I'd love to see now like remember Pete went said like a talk show
[SPEAKER_00]: Like had no age and bands play on it and stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to see that now I'd also love to see the fuse Real reality TV show about the warp tour Wow Yeah, that'd be crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like fat Mike is going around just fucking with all the Christian bands.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like It's embarrassing for all parties involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a not a good look
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like we might have talked about this before, but there used to be a show on MTV where they would, you would send them your premise, you'd be like, this is what I do, and they send you a video camera, and you take yourself doing it, and then they add it together and do a segment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And like one of them,
[SPEAKER_03]: was I'm a New York hardcore dude and the dude with like, it's, you know, it had him going to see me jv's and I feel like the night he went was when someone staged over like broke their neck like,
[SPEAKER_03]: either was it life of agony or black train jack.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some band like that that happened and I wanna say that that was at they were at that show on this MTV TV show.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fucking crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there was another one where it was like somebody and I wanna say in the Pacific Northwest who were like, you know, I'm a,
[SPEAKER_03]: I throw like fucking drum and bass, raves, you know what I mean, and it had them finding a venue and setting up the sound system and all that shit, like this fucking awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: What about like the MTV new special reports thing on straight edge?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I remember that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That blew my mind as a kid seeing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were in, we were in Upstate New York on a school trip.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I saw that in the hotel room on MTV and it just, I could not believe it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so like, this is insane.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get that one mixed up.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's another one that was like more like a network one.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was like a 2020 thing or something, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was what it in my eyes and Earth crisis on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they were like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I feel like the MTV one had earth prices.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they were at shows and Syracuse.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were feeling kids like ex-mashing and ex-mashing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I went back and re-watched it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's nowhere near as exciting now as it was from it's a kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was like, oh, this is what it looked like.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember being kind of like frightening and dangerous back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I remember like the Dimash scenes on the MTV one, like looked lit to me then.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean, dude, now, like he fucking people start kicking each other in the face before banding and hits a fucking little, just smashing each other as hard as he did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I, I definitely, I feel like the can rock thing I'm going to have to follow up with you on which you hear some of this stuff, but I'm interested in the fact that this is kind of like an undiscovered part of Canadian culture and like only because there's so much Canadian culture that now is.
[SPEAKER_00]: part of like wider pop culture like post-trake and post even like all that indie stuff that kind of exploded in the early 2000s from here but man the 90s and the 80s oh my god the I guess any of the I'm an adult now video there's a lot of good
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, one thing I like about Canada that I forgot to grab one of those up there is the big Turk candy bar.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you fan of that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is a weird Canadian thing, apparently, which I didn't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always thought it was like,
[SPEAKER_00]: more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was never a big Turkish delight fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: So chocolate covered Turkish delight never really appealed to me that much, but there was like there are certain bars, chocolate bars that like just to me I'm like who would buy this like an eat more bar?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have those in America?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, like, molasses taffy with like hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not so it's just like, I like the, yeah, it's like, with tear your, you're, I like getting, uh, when I'm England and England, I like getting the Yorkie bar, which is the masculine one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, ladies and gentlemen.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, ladies and gentlemen.
[SPEAKER_00]: The worst campaign ever, let's so sick.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are good.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like the Yorkie.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good chocolate bar.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like, but I don't like it as much as like, if I'm in England, I like a Cadbury chocolate bar.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I also like that they put their chocolate bars in the fridge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, kind of like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't refrigerate their sodas, but they were refrigerate their chocolate bars.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like getting me a bag of monster lunch.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's much is my favorite.
[SPEAKER_00]: My favorite food of the world though is is beef and tomato pot noodle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Beef and tomato pot noodle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, do you know pot noodle?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, what's pot noodle?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, it's just like the instant noodle, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it comes in like a little cup, and they're all vegan, because it's just TVP.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they've got like bombay bad boy is one of the most popular flavors, and that's like a curry kind of flavor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they've got like a chicken and mushroom one, which I don't fuck with.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they've got a couple other flavors, but beef and tomato, my God, do I love that thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I will, we have it on a writer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't get it every night, but when we do get it, oh my God, very, very excited every time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Should we move on to our three things?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just spat, sir, everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, do you wanna go first?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll go first as just a quick addendum.
[SPEAKER_03]: We talked about the Morrissey, or we talked about the Harley Flanagan trading card.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said I thought it was just like a general like rock or like pop music card and you said it was like a metal card.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I found mine here tonight.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a is a pop one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because the Morrissey is from the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't he have one in that metal set to though?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they from makes cars in that metal set?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have those.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have these.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we could see your base is hardly flanning and found on the cromax in 1981 when you was 15 in the New York Park or metal bands for a style in the age of coral was described as a blazing slice of state-of-the-art punk aggro by one critic the group's latest album that's titled Best Wishes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what's the more you want to say?
[SPEAKER_03]: Singer-songwriter, Stephen Morris, he began his career with a Smith English rock group that's scored such hits in the UK as what difference does it make panic about the show?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Chernobyl, the nuclear accident and shoplifers of the world unite.
[SPEAKER_03]: He opened his solar career with a single swayed head, which is followed immediately by the album Viva Hate, Bona Drag is a collection of rare hard to find in otherwise inaccessible Morris he tracks.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bona.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Bona Drag, I go to Bona Drag when I'm listening to a Morrissey record personally.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know about you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really listen too much so little more so you're still on one of those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know why.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been a minute for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I haven't been on a more so you tip for a while, but I could see it coming back.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I've been on, I think I mentioned it on a earlier episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been on just like a straight 90s backpack and New York Street rep.
[SPEAKER_03]: listening spree but i got to say after that uh cash money to limit versus up in listen to a lot of no limits.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been listening a lot of no limit to a lot of like that's to be a lot of yeah that's been being like that was like a little kid.
[SPEAKER_03]: I lived.
[SPEAKER_03]: No limit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you like cash money or no limit when they can't work out?
[SPEAKER_00]: I like no limit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like my friend had satellite.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we got to, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess he wasn't getting in the satellite because he had it on a CD.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had some mixed CDs and about about it was on one of these CDs.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were just like, he got his driver's license.
[SPEAKER_00]: We drive in his parents' car and just be like,
[SPEAKER_00]: blaring this thing like this is the crazy and the lyrics are so insane on that song to this day yeah it's uh yeah definitely stood out to me so like they were and then I kind of like you know bought the odd CD here and there but uh more than cat cash money like I think by the time cash money came around I was not see I was a cash money guy and I didn't like mill limit and then later on I got into no limit
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I didn't get the nuance of what made no limit good until later on, but yeah, I love it all for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I liked, like, hot when it came out, like I thought that song was like, that was like, this is in the video too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was like, holy shit, this is incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: but I wasn't, I'd be lying if I said it was there for like the hot boys and all that stuff as it was kind of happening, I kind of like... No, me too, like, like, I wasn't open to Southern Rap, like I would make fun of it, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like other than, like, I thought, like eight bowl of NMJG and Al Cas were good, but yeah, remember, I was like sick at my friend Jeff Cashner's house, and I was like laying on his couch, and we were watching Rap City,
[SPEAKER_03]: and hawk came on and it was like, it was a premiere.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were like, you know, this is a new global blood.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like half asleep and I'm like, I just remember like thinking like, when is he gonna start rapping?
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, this video is fucking amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: The beat is hardest fuck it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Does he start rapping and I fell asleep and I woke up the next day and I couldn't stop thinking about that song and I just went and bought the tape and then I just got super into cash money from there and
[SPEAKER_03]: We would get like a couple of no limit records for like free from like the college station or something and check those out, but I always thought they were, I always thought no limit were, ripped, we're biting cash money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like the pen and pixel art stuff became such a,
[SPEAKER_03]: a thing eventually right like yeah I mean I think all the down south and mid west guys use pen and pixels so wasn't even that it was just I don't know limiting their CDs had such like a distinct like the the the spines were different right they're called Q packs and I wanted the first the cold world CD to have a Q pack at deathwish and they told me no fucking way
[SPEAKER_00]: were they only people that did because they're the only ones I can remember that had that specific spine like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there were digi packs and all the other things like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I remember seeing them on some like weird things like, um, now that's what I call music compilation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like shit like that used them sometimes, but
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know, like I like love collecting them like I have a bunch of little limit CDs.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're so fun to collect just because they're so bugged out.
[SPEAKER_03]: So look like the the layout will just be like so many like all the albums coming out and there's ones that like
[SPEAKER_03]: never came out you know what I mean like they're like man if this out like there's one it was like called tank dogs and it was supposed to be snoop, sea murder, mac, and feigned and that's like the record that you know limit people like fuck I wish tank dogs came out that's like in that Wu-chan killer bees where there's like all these people that just like never mature lots of Wu-chan like the little kid rapper yeah little kids but there's little kids in uh
[SPEAKER_03]: No limit, little soldiers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, little soldiers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Romeo became arguably bigger than his dad.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is there a boy, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, sort of.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know the F.J. loves no limit in cash money.
[SPEAKER_03]: So shout out to the D.F.J.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got a text in an ask him, what he thought of, if he watched the verses or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when Master P played for the Raptors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: My friend who got me into Master P.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dad somehow got them back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, became friends with the Raptors coach.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then somehow got them back there and they met Master P when he was playing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doing like the war most of the Raptors and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: That he's sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so jealous.
[SPEAKER_03]: Imagine being able to say, what's up, woody, to master feed, he's fucking amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think my, I think he gave my friends a little brother like issues or something like something really like out of like very strange and the other thing I wouldn't want any of his clothes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, I love the, the Lord Banks line.
[SPEAKER_00]: He played the bastard piece, he couldn't spend his playing basketball.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess he must have.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he must have.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: He tried to, like, wear all his own shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, all right.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was to my, my premium.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: My, my real first thing is Just writing no for no reason.
[SPEAKER_03]: A sick youth in a flyer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a, a Gilman street flyer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Underdog will mind over four.
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's mind over four?
[SPEAKER_03]: They have a single.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Midwest.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so weird that it wouldn't be like rabbit last year, something I think ailment opening, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: I love the like kind of like dot matrix style.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Printing of some of the stuff on the picture too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that like just the resolution or does it look like it's almost like it's hand it's hand drawn and then it's also like
[SPEAKER_03]: Shiddly like scanned.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like would it have been scanner back then or is it like someone doing it on a computer like doing illustrator on like what was the what was the original drawing program.
[SPEAKER_00]: Creep.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um Karel draw Karel draw.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's the Karel draw.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, this I love this fire.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got a friend.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's sick.
[SPEAKER_03]: I that is fucking on.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a handful of dope you through the day flyers.
[SPEAKER_03]: I picked this one to show.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, I'm going to do start off with a fly, uh, not a fly or a zine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got this zine forever ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought it was from Quebec, but then I found it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually from Mississauga.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's because I bought it in a Montreal if I'm not mistaken.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's Pirates of Doom.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I bought it years ago and only realized, well, more recently years ago, that the illustrations actually by Brian Wallsby,
[SPEAKER_00]: the person who turned down Nirvana and I love the fact that this is like Brian Walsh he's still when he was in California before he moved to North Carolina.
[SPEAKER_00]: In communication with these guys doing his own out of Mississauga and doing the cover for their first issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's on the back cover?
[SPEAKER_00]: Back cover has a base player ad.
[SPEAKER_00]: for Mike Marley and the sailors, who I've never heard, but then also an ad for the hype record, which is a
[SPEAKER_00]: a really kind of cool 12 inch.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's like a Toronto Seed report in here too, which is funny to read, talking about bunch of fucking goofs and negative gain.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's also an interview with Marley and the Sailor so I should go back and reread that.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also, and we talked about John Caster from the Do Bois and interview with the A-sexuals, his first band in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe he's actually being interviewed in the issue as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yep, Drunk Cassner.
[SPEAKER_00]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right there and more illustrations from Brian Walls become a throughout this thing, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, where'd you pick the Zeno?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it Montreal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think it might have been at, I'm trying to remember the name of the record store that you saw always go to there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and they had like a small selection of Zenes from time to time and flyers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got some great posters and flyers from there.
[SPEAKER_00]: back in the uh... the good old days when people didn't care about paper outside of uh... wf and you and stuff like that like i heard about i remember hearing that uh... i might not say this person's name because they might not want to know but i heard about someone paying seven hundred dollars for uh... smaigmore report like the necro's fancy and it just like seven dollars for a fucking fancy
[SPEAKER_03]: I know, I'm weird about paying a lot for zines and like just printed stuff because I'm just like it's just a piece of paper that anything could have been printed on you know like just the ink could be on it in a different way and it could be a flyer for something I don't give a fuck about and it's still essentially the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think about that with record sometimes like sometimes in a record store and I'll see some record I'm like off the person that only bought the record beside this yeah back then and sold into this record store so I could have bought it by dream but yeah pirates to do I know there's a second issue of pirates to do I don't know if there's anything more beyond that but the second one's fun too what year is that from 86 86
[SPEAKER_00]: very sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was a I love when you find that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love like having scenes and going through scenes and finding like pictures of friends, like when they're like in a weird, I found an amazing one of Yannick from tragedy and his hero's gone and his old band double think when he was like a little kid, some hilarious sent it to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: He did not like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like what I see in the scenes of my friends getting asked if they've ever said the end word.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then send it in pictures of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's yeah, well, those kind of scenes.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, this next one is an industry plant because I had a friend send me these things as a gift.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's a kind of friend dude who gives people gifts anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he sent me this, he's like, you know, I got a package.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna send you some shit you're gonna love.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he sent me, and I know he's a listener, and I'm like, you're trying to get on the fucking three things, aren't you?
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, you know, a little key, like, you know, to why not, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you've already found a scam with his three things thing, but you're on an angle you're working with.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he sent me a little collection of great mooted toys.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'll show them off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, damn.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, shit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's another one here's one where the blister pack is kind of coming on up so I have to hold it hold it right Oh, that's sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: This one's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that one's really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: The back is really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got the helmet on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then there's the N-W-O-1, which is really cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Damn.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then this last one was actually a... Liger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn, those were fucking awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny you'd have that, because when you see my next item, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: I brought my next things like part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I brought just a couple things for my O-Nita collection.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh.
[SPEAKER_00]: where he's smoking the cigarette.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hell yeah, I always wanted that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the program from the first FMW show that we did, back when he was fighting a karate expert.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was still kind of like presented the shoot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got to decide it, but we only had ballpoint pen the first time we hung out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not in ballpoint, but yeah, like I bought this at TotaCon and then when I met him, I'm like boom, busted out for him to sign.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was so cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he came in that day.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's wearing a leather jacket, a supreme sweatshirt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Titus jeans, giant white ass Nike's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, it was like the cool is vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely had some work done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was pretty young.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but my god, it was a vibe.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's sick.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw him wrestle in Philly a handful of years ago, and he was so fucking good, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wish I would, I'm sure that he was doing autographs afterwards, and over some reason I didn't want to
[SPEAKER_00]: I Bob Bruno from Best Coast, bought an FMW shirt, gave it to Nikki from nothing, and Nikki got it signed by Anita at that show, and they gave it to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a couple.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got like five Anita autographs weirdly, like just on different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like the one wrestler I connect.
[SPEAKER_00]: I collect or connect collect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I was gonna take this out, but, you know, I don't need to Yeah, yeah, open the whole program this program Yeah, I need some money to stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have I have a couple really sick FMW postures.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome I don't have any postures.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have two really good ones.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean they're all good, but I think that's all the FMW stuff I have I want to get more though What's your next item
[SPEAKER_03]: My next end last is on the hip hop tips, since we're talking about hip hop a little bit, this is a sealed long box of the first KMD album, Mr.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hood.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God, that's insane.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for you young whipper snappers, this is what CDs used to come in.
[SPEAKER_03]: The CD is,
[SPEAKER_03]: down here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is just like blank, like, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: Would they put alarms in them back then?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this one doesn't have one.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'd imagine they probably put a little alarm stickers on it or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was this, and then sometimes there'd be like kind of like buster ones where the CD would be like,
[SPEAKER_03]: in like a fake, you know, one that just like or it would be like clear plastic in the city would just be up here because you like flip through the cities like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a couple of or like literally a couple of flipper ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh really?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like not not like the whole long box just the front panel.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing that I think would slide into those plastic ones.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I got this, you know, a long time ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think off discogs before way before Doom died, obviously, and I also got, which I never realized until now is that they have the same sale price with the fucking handwriting on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're from the, must be from the same store, but I also had sealed LP.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh damn, that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So sometimes I look out for a sealed cassette of it's a completely, the trilogy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love sealed hip hop records, yeah, but I also have like a minty on the sealed LP as well for playing, but these are for collecting purchases.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's my final thing, and I gotta get re-frained.
[SPEAKER_00]: But years ago, I sent my dad, I was trying to remember what he was, who you, I sent him down to meet and buy like, I had to work.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was like an autograph signing at Bugiling, a couple different comic artists came, but I sent him down with all this money I had saved to buy something and he's like, how the guy doesn't have any art to sell.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, oh, and he's like, but this Chris Ware's got some art.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, a big Chris Ware fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I bought this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was before there were like camera phones, so he's just like describing what it looks like to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, yeah, by that, please.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's that's the original Chris where are yeah Holy shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, bought it from them at the McGuyling comic shop in Toronto He's a autograph signing.
[SPEAKER_00]: What book is that from trying to remember now?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to remember Okay, fine, but yeah, I don't remember right now
[SPEAKER_00]: Damn, dude, that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was got 20 years ago, and that's 25 years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy that he brought art now, I'm thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was just under the assumption that everyone brought art with him to sell.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it was at a point where he can still, like, you know, sell this stuff for like a couple hundred dollars, a few hundred dollars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was trying to remember what I paid for.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was definitely, it couldn't have been too much more than like 500 bucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: around that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what's crazy is when you see like old, you know, like, I was, I was, I've been like slowly reading through all of service and the back he's selling like pages for like 40 bucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I told you, but the time I went to the comic book convention and we bought all those Iron Man pages for like next and nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really weird and it's also because like you think about it like that's like a piece of art that like you're saying like it feels weird buying something that's printed because you're like this was just printed, but then when you're buying like Something we're like, no, this is like, you know, the hand of the artist touching this they actually like made their impression on this it was like, yeah, I can totally see that getting back into that if I read money.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love hearing David Show talk about collecting comic art.
[SPEAKER_03]: He tells really good stories about that kind of shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yo's fucked up a T-shirt design still.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, then we're going to get into a problem though.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to sue him, camera on style.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I love that lawsuit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fucking awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't say he's going to inspire me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to sue David Chow now for not giving this to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's lying.
[SPEAKER_03]: You think you could get me a cold world at Templeton design?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll hit him up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just kidding.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was trying to think what other episode happened between
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... uh... the uh... the the guy from low talent from low oh yeah low real love that one i've tried so many times and they never clicked for me i think they're sick and like obviously like you know like them in like coding
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I like coding a little more, but I need to try more with low because what I like about low is they have some female vocals, which is always a plus for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: For some reason, I never gave them enough fair enough shake.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love them back in the 90s and they've been a band that's like really always been kind of like, they're never always my favorite band, but I've always been
[SPEAKER_00]: but I watched this documentary about them from 2006.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a heavy S documentary, holy cheese, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, like I always love talking to people that have
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, different experiences around the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like his experiences with Utah and punk in Utah, versus a step in from the descendants experiences with punk in Utah, I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the culture has some takes on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I can, you know, I can see why the dawn episode was a little more up your alley.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I like that I like the little episode too don't get me wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like seemed super cool to like super cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was like, what's he going to be like?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you know, and he's had a really rough couple of years like dealing with a loss of his partner and, you know, band made and everything and just, you know, so I was, yeah, I had no idea what to expect, but man, he loved talking about punk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I find that interesting is when people come on the show,
[SPEAKER_00]: that I might not think of as being capital B punk, but their publicist keeps hitting trust enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I don't know, like, are they?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they come on the show and they just love it so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they just like really connect with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's always interesting to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you see the Jeff Buckley documentary?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have not seen the Jeff Buckley documentary, but I know I've heard the Jeff Buckley Badrane's cover.
[SPEAKER_03]: Does he covered babbery?
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's like a tape of him covering him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Brooke who was on the show, who's his old roommate.
[SPEAKER_00]: She talked about it in her episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I watch the trailer, I'm going to watch it this week, but I watch the trailer and they like flash like record covers of like his influences and they and it shows bad brains.
[SPEAKER_03]: So okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you like covered a bad brain song.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you need to hear it online somewhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like downed it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll look it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we will be talking in a couple weeks.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got I got some cool episodes lined up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we'll have.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll be they'll be some jumping off points and these upcoming episodes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I promise you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe you, and I mean, we always have to talk about it anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we'll probably be talking about the blowback from my comments about the bracket.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, you know, Shadow to Hardlord, and thank you for giving us the bracket to talk about.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, dude, the one thing I told Colin when I was talking to him about it, I was like, dude,
[SPEAKER_03]: It takes balls to put this list out like shout out like because people are, you know, like I, I don't know that I would do it, you know, but also, you know, what also regarding the dawn of the world of Africa get shout out to Jim winters.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Matt Summers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: We should probably talk about these comments because the comments are more.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... someone said hello dear hello uh... so it's a thanks guys so it's been made empty v's smashed uh... the u.k. gummies the caterpillar ones are great those are all from straighted jesus red to both of them he show wasn't called made it was something else this was before made
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... and then there's uh... rat on both of those cards love it uh... i don't know what those relates to us that's you gotta be checking i guess we got to check in the chat as it's coming yeah i'm a record used to put alarms on the CDs and crisfer all right everyone i think that's it uh... if you want to get in touch with us a woege where they get you
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't, but I get a Wojaveli on Instagram and Wojaveli with a zero on SoundCloud.
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep the comments, comment everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: People also leave comments on random things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, comments for this on random reels that I put up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, direct the comments to this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's stop on this first.
[SPEAKER_00]: And...