[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Come Follow Him Podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: This podcast is created by the Boise Nampah Institute of Religion for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here, we hope to help young adults find relevant principles each week as they study the Assign Come Follow Me in Scripture Block as outlined by the Church.
[SPEAKER_01]: This episode is simply two institutes talking about what they see in the Scriptures that might be relevant to your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not intended to speak for the church or to definitively define doctrines or policies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Any opinion shared here are just that, our opinions as we have learned to come follow him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Max Winson, let's jump in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, welcome back, everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to be with you again this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am with Brother Ryan Butler, Brother Butler.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to have you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's exciting to be with you again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Since last time we had had you on, you have been released as the YSA State President.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you got all kinds of free time now, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, as you might imagine, one of those bitter sweet moments, right, like having a little more free time to be with my wife and my kids is very sweet, but just not being as connected with those individuals, both the YSAs and the other leaders that I worked with is, you know, you missed that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You missed those connections and relationships.
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure, as good as they're in good hands with Brother Cobb, Brother Cobb, there's certain types that you connect with differently than he'd connect with and it's different when you get your priest leaders changing out, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just miss people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think today we'll just jump in.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've got Section 126 through 128 in the Doctrine Covenants.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's some good things.
[SPEAKER_01]: There should cause and bad chances for the dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all kinds of stuff going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to just let you take us in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: For those that weren't aware, it was last week.
[SPEAKER_00]: The church put out some minor changes, primarily at the section headings in the Doctrine Covenants.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are looking at your paper scriptures, even if they're the newest printed edition, perception, 10 and 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: For sections 120s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, your section heading for 126 is gonna be just slightly different, then the digital copy for 126.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe the context in the paper scriptures emphasizes that at this time, Bergam Young was present into the form of the 12 apostles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's still true, that didn't change.
[SPEAKER_00]: But just to give a little more context to it now, the digital version mentions that Bergameon had just returned to his family in Navu from an early two-year mission in England, which provides a little more context to the three verses we have in this particular section.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Second thing that I just some some of the sections of the doctrine and covenants to me are very easy to answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is this in the doctrine and covenants, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sections 121 2223 that makes great sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: We covered section 124 last week.
[SPEAKER_00]: That one makes great sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sections 127 and 128 that we're about to cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I understand why those are in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Section 126 is one of those you have to ask yourself, okay, so why is this personal
[SPEAKER_00]: about a limited circumstance in his life, including the doctrine and covenants.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it that the Lord wants us to see from this limited circumstance into a more broad appeal in our own spiritual journey?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those attempt to kind of lean into some of those sections trying to answer that question first and then see if I can find
[SPEAKER_00]: value in the in the section after I've answered that particular question for myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what do you find?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you what do you see?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you mentioned earlier, okay, you've got this significant shift in your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Breguem Young has just finished a two-year mission in England.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's finished in one area or aspect of his life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's about to transition into a different aspect of his of his life
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if I can read these three verses with the idea in my mind, what is the Lord providing for those who?
[SPEAKER_00]: transition from one calling to another calling, whether that's from a high demand, time-wise calling to a lower demand calling, time-wise or vice versa, but what is it that the Lord, I'm thinking for YSAs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all these YSAs who are returning home for missions?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you, if you would read Section 126 as the Lord speaking to you at your time of transition from full-time missionary service now into your, you know, whatever
[SPEAKER_00]: circumstance are setting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that can add some value to these three verses.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you've said, Briggum's just coming back from a three-year mission, which was very long,
[SPEAKER_01]: He left in 1839, he was in England.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's also maybe important to note that prior to this, he's already served on seven different missions.
[SPEAKER_01]: 32, he went on one in the spring and he went on a different one in the winter.
[SPEAKER_01]: From 80, 1833 to 37, he served five different missions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some are missions mostly three to five months.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's been gone a lot, you know, to have got been now been gone three full years as a president of the quorum of the 12, I'm sure there's lots going on that he could have been back and helpful for.
[SPEAKER_01]: And especially for his family, right, missing that much time with his family would be would have been pretty hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and even his familial circumstances have been tricky right loss of his first wife and marriage to a second, and you've got to step mom involved now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for him to not be there to bridge a lot of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's interesting, yeah, his resolve to go was was pretty significant, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And even with all those challenges, I have a little quote here in my scripture.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, when he left, he says, I was determined to go to England or to die trying.
[SPEAKER_01]: My former, firm resolve was that I would do what I was required to do in the gospel of life and salvation, or I would die trying to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even all of his external and familial issues and circumstances didn't stop him from serving from saying, I've been asked to do this thing by the Lord.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to go do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there's a message there to those that are listening there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe on the fence about serving.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the profits of reaffirm today that that same call that came out some years back that every worthy male young man should serve a mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's still a still in force, you know, it's been a firm by every profit since then.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, pretty heavily by President Monson and President Nelson.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think this resolve that Brigham had is maybe instructed for us to.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am in preparation to kind of read this with your idea of this resolve all serve wherever I'm called to do whatever I ask to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting to, we're going to read verse one and then I'll just share with you how I would have read it as Brigham Young, but the Lord definitely does not, it does not lay out that way in Brigham's actual life.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have one dear and won't love a brother Brigham Young fairly thus say it's the Lord unto you, my servant.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is no more required at your hand to leave your family as in times past for your offering is acceptable to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would read this if I were Brigham Young and say, sweet, I don't have to leave my family anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm gonna do that with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Boiler alert.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's not gonna be the case, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only is he gonna actually before the profits market them, Brigham's gonna actually serve two more missions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Short and brief to the eastern states, but nonetheless still short and brief missions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it says required at your hand to leave your family as in times past, I would have taken that very, very broad because it's what I would have wanted to see, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: As opposed to going through that spiritual vessel of trying to figure out what the Lord might be saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then of course we know 1844 is going to come.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Brigham Young will spend much of the next decade, not with his family, traveling back and forth across the United States in groups of saints and, you know, founding a wilderness or founding a civilization in the wilderness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how do you, what do you think the Lord intended?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, you know, Elder Oaks has taught us that when we ask why we're wrong, almost 100% of the time, 98% of the time, I think you says.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what would you say that he intended in that language then?
[SPEAKER_00]: So one of the things I started doing here since President Oaks was sustained, you know, have the study plan in gospel library where you can read all of President Oaks, general conference addresses, and see what's called as an apostle.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you go clear back to his second one, and he's gonna spend some time in that particular talk, called taking upon us the name of Jesus Christ from April of 85.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's going to emphasize the idea that in the sacrament, we don't say we're going to take upon us the name of Christ, but that we will be willing to do so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just wonder if in this language, this verbage that we're reading in section 126, if the Lord is just giving Brigham Young an opportunity to take about four deep breaths, reassess his willingness, and then be ready to move forward again when that time arises.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not going to add qualifying words that aren't actually in the section.
[SPEAKER_00]: But just based on what we know happens afterwards, it's no more required at your hand to leave your family as in times past right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it now doesn't say that in the verse, but we, once again, with hindsight looking back, that's got to be at least part of what the Lord might have intended.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for Brigham.
[SPEAKER_00]: After this long mission, after a long extended period away from his family, this might be the Lord just giving him a chance to take about four deep breaths before it's time to move forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: So once again, now I'm just going to apply this to these YSAs, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Bless their hearts, these return missionaries, who come back, and they have worked really hard for 18 to 24 months.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they have an all about it, and sometimes they want to come home and take a break.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I might just suggest that the Lord's pattern laid out here in section 126 is to take one or two deep breaths, and then you ready to get back after it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I might add, you know, I, I wonder too if the Lord has said, I don't, I don't need you to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not required anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: But maybe the things that he did in the future were things that were no, no requirement.
[SPEAKER_01]: They weren't a call-go directly and I'm asking you to go like he was been asked in these places.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if maybe in those future events, it was a little bit more, I see a need, I'm going to go fill the need, a little more willingly going instead of, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: right after his wife has lost a child in 1839, he's leaving her with $2.72 in their account and leaving for three years, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be a, I've been called to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like we talked before, the resolve to go was to fulfill the required call.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd just kind of wonder a little bit if moving forward, he sees a need and fills the need as opposed to waiting for the call to come.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which, of course, aligns with what we know is going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, one of the great things about the doctrine and Kevin, it's we can read the verbage, and then we know what that what happens after.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mostly, and so, right, in this context, we recognize that that Brigham Young was asked to serve his missions by others.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, but starting in 1844, he is the one that the Lord speaks to
[SPEAKER_00]: right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he can't wait to be told by someone else, but that's to learn to be this anxious agent.
[SPEAKER_00]: To be honest with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, isn't that maybe a method that the Lord uses for us to, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when when we're 18, 19 years old and you and I have served missions, we went not under direct, but there was a pressure to go and a profits of called me to go, the Lord kind of expects me to go and
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we went with the call, being willing to serve to fulfill the call that had been given, fast forward 30 or 40, 50 years, and maybe I'm a little more willing to say, hey, I think I'd like to go on a mission, and I've become more willing to do a thing where I see a need that I could fulfill, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, once again, the vast majority of
[SPEAKER_00]: are actually not like laid out in great depth and detail what you need to do on a daily weekly and monthly basis to fulfill your calling, but there's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some that are or at least have enough to do that you can fill your days, weeks and months, but many callings don't have that level of depth or detail.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you have to now become an agent and not one who's required to do dot dot dot.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you just want to fulfill what the Lord needs you to do to get His work done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let me ask you maybe personally.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've just, we talked about being released as a steak president.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you get two or three breaths to debris then and take some, did you have some breather time?
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you were still, I mean, you're still in the throes of planning a fly essay event over the young, young adult event over the summer that we had.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I don't know that you got a breath till after summer, maybe, but but have you had that breath and and has it changed how you look at your new calling, maybe?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great insight.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that I found is those who are busy, tend to stay busy or to use President Nelson's language.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you have spiritual momentum, you want to maintain that spiritual momentum.
[SPEAKER_00]: And busyness is not a measure of spiritual momentum, but being actively engaged in the work is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what did we do?
[SPEAKER_00]: We asked to be temple workers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh good, so Liz and I now work in the temple every week, once again, not because anybody asked us to, but because we just recognized that this was a time and season where we could do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I take a couple of breaths?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my Sunday's look very different than they used to look, but in the same breath, I was called to be both the Ward Mission Leader and the Temple and Family History Leader in my home ward.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're having huddles and we're doing visits, not that that's all spelled out, but I did have two breaths to kind of step back, evaluate where I'm at now, not try and bring in kind of that same position that I had previously into it, but now reevaluate with new eyes and a home board, how can we do this?
[SPEAKER_00]: But still moving forward, and nobody's laying out for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a weekly checklist that needs to get done.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel strong that the work needs done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm asked to do, I'm going to work really hard within this sphere to get that work done as best I can so that at the end of the day, when I hit my knees, I can answer, yes, I have done good in the world today, not to the bishop and not to my wife and not to my ministering brothers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and maybe, you know, I don't want this to sound wrong, but maybe even bigger than that, that you can answer it to yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the Savior, yes, we want to be accountable and we want to have accountability to the Savior and to the Heavenly Father, but ultimately our objective is to become like that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if my objective is to be like him and yours is to be like him, at some point your capacity to just do the right thing, because it's the right thing isn't out of need to impress or improve or be approved by.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would venture to say you're calling as a ward mission leader and Temple and Family History leader looks different now than it would if you had gotten called to do that pre-state president role, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not, that's not because you just like doing more work now, it's because you see a need in a different vein, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so
[SPEAKER_01]: personally you've become more like the savior in a way to do the things the right way for sure the outcome of that is to stand in front of the Lord and say I think I've served as best I can and have him maybe bless that but but ultimately the objective is become like him and I think that's a that's an indication that you are becoming like him which once again going back to that same talk from present oaks that I mentioned earlier he mentioned the greatest
[SPEAKER_00]: The greatest method by which we are motivated to take his name upon us is because we love him.
[SPEAKER_00]: See, I want to be like him, not because I want all the cool stuff that he can do, I want to be like him because I love him so much that I want to be who he is, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that question then becomes like.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't for me, it's not a bracelet that I wear, what would Jesus do, it's core, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: What would he, because I do want to be like him in every way, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so when I look at him, that's now this core central question to me is what would he do if he were a word, mission leader?
[SPEAKER_00]: What would he do if he were a temple worker, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: What would he do if he were a temple and family history?
[SPEAKER_00]: What would he do if he were a ministering brother?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, what would you do if you were a seminary teacher?
[SPEAKER_00]: That that very core belief changes not just the the big interactions, but even just the little daily ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think if you get called the service a temple president, you're going to view temple and family history work service in that calling later differently, too, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you're just going to have different eyes, Lord's going to give you, which I think is really
[SPEAKER_01]: becoming like him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He allows us to have callings where we have to wrestle and we have to kind of work through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the end of the day, hopefully, like Brigham's told in verse 2, I have seen your labor and toil and journeys for my name.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen it and it's acceptable of verse 1, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You've done enough and you may not be perfect yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: You may not have that thing perfectly learned.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for now, you've got enough of it and you can move on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great way to view that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, it just becomes so essential to who we are, right, that you see what you're doing, having some eternal value.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, rather than I don't want to be embarrassed at word council, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which was me at 22, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Given they're calling it 22, I just wanted to have something to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that looked like I was doing what I was supposed to, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: The other just so fascinating, Reagan, one of the reasons I'm sure I'm confident that Reagan was not gonna be gone for the next three years is he needed some close personal individual time with Joseph Smith.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because he's gonna have to learn about leadership in ways that I'll never comprehend at least not in this mortal life.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was gonna have to learn those and he just needed to learn him by being with Joseph.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, being present.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe speaks a little bit to the first presidency and the, you know, with the presidency of the form of the 12 and the first presidency working so closely together, just recently saw the reorganization of that presidency.
[SPEAKER_01]: where Elder Paul and who may be seniority wise should be in the first presidency if that's how it was done.
[SPEAKER_01]: But because of some other whatever reasons that the Lord had and that the Elder Oaks President Oaks had in establishing who should be in the presidency, whether it's for learning experiences or
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like we've been discussing, just things you need to learn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Melda Christophe for some finds himself in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love what he said the day he was interviewed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I didn't expect this when I woke up this morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty, pretty significant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great way to see this section, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we get to move the one twenty seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It won 27 and 128, this is a pretty chaotic time for Joe.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if maybe you have a great grasp on that historical context and can give it and that's fine or I can as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of those.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an epistle, meaning a letter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, as Latter Day Saints, we shouldn't have any problem with letters being revelations.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we just went through section 121, 22 and 23, but even more, we spend half of a year on the new testament and that whole same path is essentially letters, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Whether they're all mostly or Peter's or John's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have all these letters and these letters can be both instructive, which they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some like parts of these revelations that are very church handbook of instruction like, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but there are parts that are very revelatory in opening our minds to some of the truths of heaven that we just need to learn how to embrace.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well said.
[SPEAKER_00]: So at this time, you've got this our favorite friend governor Boggs are now former governor Boggs in Missouri.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was an attempt on his life and the the current governor of Missouri asked Joseph Smith to be extradited from Illinois back to Missouri to be held for a trial because it was assumed that Joseph had something to do with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Joseph and Porter Rockwell had something to do with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: and one of my all time favorite Porter Rockwell stories comes from this, when I said it was an attempt to assassination on Governor Boggs' life, they shoot through a window, but it doesn't kill him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's Porter Rockwell, his number one defense, because he is arrested and taken to trial, and his number one defense is, yeah, I wouldn't have missed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if that's a great defense.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're, how the hit him square in the head?
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, Porter Rockwell, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you haven't ever studied his life, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, unfortunately, there's a great, there's some great Porter Rockwell biographies, a couple of great stories and saints, volume one and two.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd recommend maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, there's some and you got to always be careful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes what you're here about Porter Rockwell is more apocryphal than it is reality, but there's no need to be a apocryphal because his reality is pretty impressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So while Joseph's in hiding, because he has no interest in being extradited back to Missouri because he has no confidence.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be treated fairly.
[SPEAKER_00]: He'll go into hiding and stay out of public view.
[SPEAKER_00]: And while he's in hiding, that's when these letters sections 127 and 128 will come out to the Saints.
[SPEAKER_00]: That I think gives a little context there to verse 1 and verse 2 where he talks extensively in 127, but just about difficulty in circumstance and challenge and and I think we're very well aware of the liberty jail.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right responses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we have his hiding in exile and he's moving around.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not in the same place.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of moving around throughout the Navu area in the surrounding area.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, the wonderful phrase in verse two, where he says, unless I was ordained, from before the foundation of the world for some good and or bad as you may choose to call it, which is a fun, that's Joseph's personality coming through a little bit there, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was ordained from before the foundation of the world for some good and he had in teachings of the prophet Joseph Smith, he expands on this idea every man who has a calling to minister to the inhabitants of the world,
[SPEAKER_00]: was ordained to that very purpose in the Grand Council of heaven before this world was.
[SPEAKER_00]: I suppose I was ordained to this very office in that Grand Council.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, you get a calling, and if you believe this, there's a lot to that calling, right, that it wasn't just happenstance or circumstance, but it's something that's been put in place thousands of years ago to move the work forward in today's world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I appreciate that elder web of the 70s some years ago came to our stake and taught out of the Book of Mormon in speaking about the noble and great ones that are mentioned when the sons of Lehigh are going off to missions and he also referenced that in Moses where speaking about coming to the earth with many noble and great ones that surrounded Christ in the very beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said effectively who who are the noble and great ones if it's not,
[SPEAKER_01]: the Melchesic priesthood holders of the latter days, you know, and the profits that have lived from beginning to end.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were many noble and great ones and if God's got billions of children, many is more than just the, I don't know, if the 100 profits that we've got scriptures from, many, and it's probably all those that are priesthood holders or their spouses that are raising righteous children and anxiety.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that idea that
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we have a calling that came from not because God just wanted to give it to us, but because the young adults of today are more prepared to usher in the Christ than any other generations ever come.
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of who they were in the pre-existence, they got this title, this assignment, and were given the blessing of having the gospel in their lives because of what they had proven in the pre-existence.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's pretty cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when, when, you know, the interview that sister Jane Clayson Johnson did with the new first presidency and, you know, what, what, what, what would you say to the young adults, when President Eirings said, congratulations, I thought, like, yes, right, that's awesome, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You get to be a young adult in this church at this time of human's history, and rather than leaning into the very obvious difficulties,
[SPEAKER_00]: by which they are surrounded, challenges with dating, challenges with morality, challenges with finances, challenges with careers, you know, he just said, congratulations, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it isn't that a little bit like what Joseph says next in verse two, he gets this calling, God know if all these things, whether it be good or bad, but nevertheless, deep water is what I am want to swim in.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is all, it all has become a second nature to me, and I feel like Paul, to glory and tribulation.
[SPEAKER_01]: for to this day has a god of my father's delivered me out of them all.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know that idea that yes he was ordained to come forth in the latter days to be the prophet of dispensation and the young people of today were ordained to come forth to usher in Christ and to prepare the world for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes that's true but that doesn't mean that you're going to you know swim around an ankle deep water.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be in deep water and learning to swim in deep water is tough.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that I just find so remarkable about the Lord's restored church and gospel here on the earth is many faiths.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not a shot at them, it's just an observation.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of have this what we have to just get through this life so that we can finally be joyful in the next.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whereas it is repeated throughout Scripture.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are here to be joyful now.
[SPEAKER_00]: The gospel brings us happiness now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Notice Joseph is like, yeah, deep waters when I'm want to swim in.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel to glory in tribulation next verse.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't want just him to glory.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to extend it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let not 10% of the saints, not 50% of the saints, not the ones who are having a good day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let all saints rejoice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, and be exceedingly glad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just cloud.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but exceedingly glad.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is something powerful in being a joyful people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not talking about like a fake happiness or just putting a smile on in a bad circumstance.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not what I mean here.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we have to be more than just happy when happy things happen to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are a joyful people in all circumstances, even to the point when we are glorying
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I've often wondered, I don't know, maybe it's different in your word and so I don't want to speak.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't my word per se, it's words in general, but it's fast in testimony meeting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like sometimes they can fall into a pattern or somebody gets up and talks about how insanely difficult their last month or six months or whatever has been and then how the Lord has helped them be strong in the midst of their difficulty.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just sometimes yearn for somebody to just get up and say, I'm happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, things are great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, life's hard, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: But because of the savior and his restored gospel and my covenants, I'm happy, I'm happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting at the end of verse three, you know, he's just said like you've shared, let all saints rejoice, therefore, and be exceeding that for Israel's God is there, God.
[SPEAKER_01]: And listen to this, and he will meet out a just recompense of reward upon the heads of all their oppressors, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Joseph, what he's doing here, this is the letter, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: If this is a letter,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and he's proving that that is true for him, that he's just spent how many days it in jail and he's now in hiding and all the stuff that's negative, but he's even viewing the way the Lord will deal with the oppressors as their reward.
[SPEAKER_01]: It will be a not their punishment, right, which he could have said just as easily, but he's using positive language.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's speaking with those positive adverbs and those those the language that is the way he's
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and let's be careful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, it's not bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am not saying it's bad to recognize the challenges in your love, obviously because Joseph does it in verse one and the first half of verse two.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is a 12 verse letter, and he spends one and a half verses on his current challenges and the rest of it, not on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all joyful, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or on dogmas or on, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And let's just get into what's good because it really is good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, just some context before we get into what's in the rest of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe it was back in 1838 that they were told to build the temple in the area that they're now living in section 124, just the last section we studied, there was a little bit of instruction about building the temple and getting at it going after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was, you know, 1838, 1841.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, we're another year probably almost passed that point and we're learning
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... that that temple still right we're still being taught about what should happen in that temple right you you you you have this funeral sermon given at cmore bruncens funeral or joseph introduced as the idea of baptisms for the dead which here to for a it's so ingrained in our minds the thought of a church without it doesn't register
[SPEAKER_00]: But here you have a specific question being asked Joseph Smith, previous to the funeral which is, how is it that you believe salvation can only come through the ordinances of the priesthood when you yourself acknowledge a thousand plus-year gap without priesthood authority.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what happens to all those people?
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even beyond that, now it becomes super personal.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're Joseph Smith, you're now thinking about Alvin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, like you have a brother who passed away before priesthood authority was restored.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a minister who said that your brother was going to hell as a result.
[SPEAKER_00]: of not being baptized.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think even in the family, I mean, his grandfather had prophesied that there would be a great work done from his posterity, but he died before the gospel is really in its fullness in any level.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so here's Joseph, who on a personal level has been wrestling with this question, probably somewhere in this 15-year range,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but he's been wrestling with this internally, notice by the way, he's the prophet.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been 15 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then the doctrine of baptism for the dead comes forth, which is going to find the answer his personal wrestle.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, it gives a doctrinal answer to one of Christianity's largest questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: What what does happen to those who have never had an opportunity
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it did not end immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: 15 here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's the way the Lord works, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing for them to do until there's a temple.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I teach them a doctrine that they couldn't have fulfilled in any kind of really organized way at least.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we mentioned last time that when the doctrine of babcos for the dead was first announced, they just ran down to the river and started baptized in uncle Henry.
[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody's writing that down.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was just a lot of kind of chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: and so had the Lord done that 15 years ago, man, what would we have lost, what would we have done?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think in his wisdom, he just holds back from even the prophets until the world and the saints are ready to fulfill the things he's asking him for to do, which I'm skipping a verse that I am going to come back to intentionally verse four, but five to the end really is some of this
[SPEAKER_00]: specific instruction with regards to the ordinance of baptism for the dead, which by the way, this isn't the end all be all either, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We even recognize in our own day, we've seen slight modifications made in how that ordinance is performed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have a problem with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We recognize the need for the ordinance, but the vehicle or the methodology by which the ordinance is performed.
[SPEAKER_00]: There have been changes and will probably continue to be so the sacrament.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't use a communal cup.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have individual cups right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's kind of an idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just want to re-emphasize.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there are young adults right now listening, who are wrestling big time with some pretty severe questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of them have wrestled with those questions for months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe even a couple of years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please note once again, Joseph Smith, a question super close to his heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: had wrestled for 15 years with this question before the Lord saw fit for reasons known to him, probably having to do with order and temples, as you mentioned.
[SPEAKER_00]: The answer wasn't revealed yet to Joseph.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm well aware of Section 137, which at least calms his heart that Alvin ends up in the Sleshtro Kingdom.
[SPEAKER_00]: But how, how is that possible?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a 15-year process that Joseph needs to wrestle with.
[SPEAKER_00]: before he gets that fullness of that answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so in your own individual struggles and questions, we're just so trained for instantaneous answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even if we wrestle with something like, it's been six months, how long must I wrestle with this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, here's a 15 year example.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that's very well said.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think many, many of us, I think, myself included have had years long events and things that we're working through and struggling with trials and challenges and temptations that are years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I need to obtain something new that's gonna help me understand it and get pasted or work through it or just understand, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think this is a great example of that,
[SPEAKER_01]: This would have been something that Joseph would have said immediately well here's the answer if that's the way it if this church was being made up He'd have just come up with something that solved this the issue But to say I don't know and I don't know when I'm going to know is it maybe akin to the Blacks in the priesthood right that there are apostles that would have done that 20 years before it was done
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's another one, more than 15 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: The guys are awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're waiting for a long time on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think for the most part, the vast majority of the apostles were ready to make that change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it just didn't happen until it came from the Lord.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's time to make that change.
[SPEAKER_01]: So interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then that leads me to another question as we're having this conversation, which is, OK.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Joseph didn't have his answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what is it about Joseph Smith and others who can live at peace without the answer rather than living in turmoil without the answer?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a great question.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the difference?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about young adults.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we all know.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can handle if you need to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think we all know a young adults who are just positive people are just always happy and their lives are a train wreck, but they're okay and they're working through it and at the same time we know young adults that that lives maybe not even is challenging and it's just beating them up.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's hard and they're working through things that are, that are hard still, but not on the same scale as those others that are just seeing it in a different light.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what would you say?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you probably saw lots and lots of different young people come to you with that divergent difference in the way that they're seeing things.
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you encourage them to change that mindset or to get as quickly as possible into the joyful mindset and seeing seeing their lives in a positive light?
[SPEAKER_00]: Once again, I'm going to give a simple answer because answers are simple, living in practice because a little more challenging and I recognize that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you think you're in control and if you're trying to do something and you're trying to accomplish something and you're trying to overcome something, you will probably live in turmoil because all of us, it doesn't matter, every single human on this earth is limited
[SPEAKER_00]: So I cannot or could not help someone who was in the middle of a terrible trial difficulty or overcoming a sin, but those who had peace in the midst of all of that, I'll share an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: I won't share their names.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have said it was okay for me to share this, but just not their names.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was a couple, and they were dating, and then they were engaged, and things were progressing towards a temple wedding.
[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, they allowed themselves to get into a place in a position where they made some poor choices.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like 10 days out from their ceiling,
[SPEAKER_00]: It was evident that they were not going to be able to get married in the temple and see the temple.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have this couple come in and they have to go through the spiritual vessel and repentance process, which is already a difficult process.
[SPEAKER_00]: But because of the way that we tend to celebrate ceilings, there's also this social side that's now going to be a little awkward as well, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And cause maybe an extra layer of not peace.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, with questions that they probably didn't want to answer and looks that they probably didn't want to have directed their way.
[SPEAKER_00]: What was interesting to me is I watched them each react a little differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the young lady in this particular situation, the YSA sister, she was so distraught by others perceptions of her, and she wanted them all to understand that what she was doing was good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But she was trying to control the whole situation herself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she just couldn't fight peace.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she wrestled and just couldn't find it, couldn't sense it, couldn't feel it.
[SPEAKER_00]: This young single that don't mail on the other hand, he just, I just remember he came in one day, he shrugged his shoulders and just said, I can only let the Savior soften hearts.
[SPEAKER_00]: So people may or may not believe me when I say whatever I'm going to say on this social side and I can only do whatever you as a priest to keyholder are going to allow me to do on the going to the temple side.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it either all these things give me an experience and are for my good, or they're not, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And either the Savior believes that that's true because it came from the Savior or it isn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said, I just choose to trust Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I watched him be in total peace in the midst of complete and utter chaos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I was sent out non-invitations to people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, come.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have this difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do we get married civilly?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll just get sealed later.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they have to make that difficult wrestling decision.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have his fiancee who's just heartbroken and struggling individually.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he was just at total peace.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't he wasn't disinterested or disengaged.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't unemotional, I saw him, his eyes fill with tears, but he was at peace with all of it, because he recognized that ultimately the Savior was in control, the Savior really did love him, and wasn't gonna let anything happen to him that wouldn't be for his good ultimately.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember one day he just said, President, my sweetheart's not there.
[SPEAKER_00]: can be okay if she came in.
[SPEAKER_00]: We invited her to get there and then maybe would you see if she'd be willing to just get a priest to blessing to get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she comes in.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'd had some of those conversations, but it's so hard because emotions are running so high there, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a third party kind of share it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we, and I did an
[SPEAKER_00]: And she said, yeah, I'd love that priesthood blessing, and I said, well, I think it'd be great if you're fiance gave it to you and she said that be fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, he's a little nervous, of course, but in it he just said, let the Savior be in control and trust him and I watched her not not instant, it wasn't like boom and done a man and she's all good and peace and nothing more, but over the next cup, maybe week.
[SPEAKER_00]: that piece really started to settle on her in such a way that nothing had changed circumstances.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now she turned it to the Savior.
[SPEAKER_00]: She controlled what she could control and let him control everything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was a piece.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that's probably the principle that Joseph learned in the in the library jail.
[SPEAKER_01]: being told, you're not yet like Job.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm aware, I know what's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, the interesting, as you talk through that experience and that tender experience for that young couple, my mind went to the definition of prayer in the Bible dictionary, talking about the object of prayer is not to change the will of God, but to secure for ourselves and for others, blessings that God's already willing to grant, but that are made to condition all our asking for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: That idea that I need peace and my objective
[SPEAKER_01]: through a priesthood leader in that case, for example, was to obtain peace, but something else that stands out to me in that the objective is to not change God's will for me and let me get married in the temple.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that's not the the course I should be going down right now, but
[SPEAKER_01]: My prayer should be to ask for the things that I know God wants me to ask for, and that's where it's difficult.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's where some of our anxiety comes in, trying to align ourselves to God and giving it over to God is, I have to know that I'm asking for the right thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: In that case, I think it was pretty evident, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Going and talking to our priest in later before we get married in the temple about some immorality or whatever it was,
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think in less obvious examples, the Bible dictionary says many prayers remain unanswered because they are not in Christ's name at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: They know I represent His mind, but spring out of the selfish desires or selfishness of man's art.
[SPEAKER_01]: The idea that I can continue to ask the Lord and stay in his funk of upside down, you know, twirling and deep water that's broiling and boiling around me,
[SPEAKER_01]: and ask for the same things over and over and over again and wonder why he's not answering me or I can shift the way I'm thinking maybe have a conversation with a priest or leader and get a different vantage point or a parent or another divinely appointed person.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as soon as I then have a different way of looking at it and then go to the Lord and say okay, what about this?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it becomes easier for us to trust the Lord when we're asking for the right things, and we can hear him responding.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can feel him responding to those.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's too often, we just keep asking for the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm reminded of a young sister who lived in Boise for a long time, a saying in the answer to choir with us, and then moved to another state, and
[SPEAKER_01]: I came back and visited and said, I thought when I moved, I get around some other people and I find my husband and I would be different and I keep asking for the same thing and it's not happening and I don't know and I finally just said, well, what if the ask for something different?
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, what do you mean?"
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, well, what, when you're asking for a husband and it hasn't happened, so what have you asked for something else?
[SPEAKER_01]: See what it comes?
[SPEAKER_01]: She said, well, what do I even ask for?
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when you and the Lord, but what happens when you ask for something else?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what happened was she asked to be happier in her workplace, which changed her job where her husband was, and they have since been married.
[SPEAKER_01]: So by asking the right question, it shifted her thinking and changed something else about her that made her a happier person probably and put her in an environment where the happier husband was also being prepared.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just have to go wrong things sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think when we know it's when we know what we're supposed to do, it's easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: When we don't know, that's where I think the stress comes in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Trouble comes in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that comes from that principle.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think top
[SPEAKER_00]: or tease it a different way like yeah yeah he's our ultimate chat GPT right yeah I just ask him and he'll just tell me but but if that were the case remember once again if our purpose here is to learn to become like him then a lot of times he's letting us wrestle through trying to figure out what's right to get that confirmation other than just telling us what to do every step of the way which wouldn't help us become like him at all no.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, not at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not different for you and I than it is for prophets and apostles, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And in large measure, they learn in a very similar way.
[SPEAKER_01]: President Nelson gave a talk to young single adults, I don't know, four or five years ago now, where he talked about that the core and had received some revelation.
[SPEAKER_01]: They needed to make this policy change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they did and over the course of the next six months to a year, they realized, oh, we didn't have to do it like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We could do it like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Lord just said, make this change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they were allowed to kind of massage the change into what it actually needed to be based on their own observations.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think the Lord always is going to tell us the right way to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that were the case, he'd invented the halogen bulb when the brother of Jared said, how do I like the barges, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, here's the best source, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not how he does it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which, once again, we're getting into a part in non-vood church history where the Lord is going to ask Joseph to do many hard things, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's not going to tell him how to do them.
[SPEAKER_00]: right.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just tells them this is what needs to be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you figure it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and yeah, that's hard because we do actually want to be told unsure Joseph spent a lot of time reading section 58 right.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a command and all things is is a swathal and not a wife servant because sometimes I know in my own life there's times where I'm like, you know, this would be way easier though if you just told me what to do right and and it doesn't work that way or let me rephrase that it rarely works that with there are times where I firmly believe the Lord not only tells us what but how.
[SPEAKER_00]: But many times, he tells us what and not how.
[SPEAKER_00]: And expects us to just work our way through the how, especially if it's not something that will have a monumental shift on the exaltation of mankind.
[SPEAKER_01]: for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in connection to this section, if we just keep moving on that principle applies right that the Saints have been taught the principle of baptism for the dead that a couple of years ago right they'd even been able to practice it for some period of time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in section 124.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's expressly said, you're not to do this anymore until it you have a temple, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not okay for you to baptize for the dead anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now we've got one 24 verse 35 after this time your baptism for the dead by those who are scattered abroad are not acceptable into me say it's a Lord until you build the temple, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So so we're now two years past that.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least a year passed that point and we're hearing, you know, those temple still not done, but they've got in their hearts this idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm supposed to be baptizing for the dead and it's desire to want to do that thing and not being able to do it because they don't know how to do it correctly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they haven't really gone and asked that question, maybe, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is an awesome transition for verse four now for me at least.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where I see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's the Lord, fairly thus say it's the Lord.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let the work of my temple and all the works which I have appointed unto you, be continued on and not cease.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let now look at these words here that Lord's gonna say through the Provejoice if let your diligence, your perseverance and patience and your works be redoubled.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you shall know why it's losing your reward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now why do I bring that up in this context?
[SPEAKER_00]: Notice the Lord didn't say, hey, hurry up and build the temple.
[SPEAKER_00]: I already told you to.
[SPEAKER_00]: He said, oh, you're anxious to do this doctrine, this work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then get a temple built so we can do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, for the first 160 years of church history, that's how like there's very few temples.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're anxious to get temples built so that we can do the work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I found it super fascinating, May of last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was May's second of last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: President and sister Oaks did an interview with the church news.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in that president Oaks said, it's a lot easier to build temples than it is to fill temples.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's new.
[SPEAKER_00]: See, that's the opposite of how it's been from most of church history where there weren't very many temples.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were anxious to build them to fill them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I feel sometimes we're just anxious to build them, to build them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but not necessarily to fill them, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the ways this is it perfect, but you just kind of look or listen to the conversation, maybe about the cold, well, temple.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hear lots of chatter about where, and when, and sometimes I'm this bold, someone would call it overbearing, but I hope it's only bold and not overbearing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say that it's so awesome that you're so excited for a new temple and called to a question.
[SPEAKER_00]: When's the last time you went to the Meridian Temple?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy, see you tomorrow though, eh?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if sometimes it's like, well, then why are you so excited to build this new temple?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it just because it's cool?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we get a dedicated story service.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it'll be fun to have a third temple in the valley.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are good things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the best thing is to fill the temple.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's been interesting to me now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You start working at the sample.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you mentioned earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: You start seeing things through different lens.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so my lens is like, OK, well, we're going to have this callable at temple.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only do we need to fill it, but you need workers to help fill it also.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if they're hurting to fill the two temples with workers now, hey, Valley, no pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, obviously at some point, we have to fill the current temples.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's easier to build them.
[SPEAKER_00]: that was to fill them.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting that you say that because I think about President Oaks, like, I don't know, first announcement that we're going to stop announcing temples in conference and how we do that in the future will announce.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, but not only that, we're not going to announce any right now, and the reason he gives is we need to actually get some work done on the ground of the ones we've already announced.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interesting to me because I think most people see that
[SPEAKER_01]: I think many people see that as a new profits got new prophetic priorities, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know that that's the case, you know, I don't know that they're new.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would venture to say that in many meetings, President Oaks raised his hand and said, hey, are we thinking about how we're actually building these temples with dedicated people that have to be temporally?
[SPEAKER_01]: in the locations we're building them, do we have enough crews to do that and staffing them once we get them built, do we have enough people living in the area?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would venture to say that President, I don't know this, but venture to say that he'd raise those thoughts and those concerns beforehand and they were addressed and now he's in the seat and feeling like, you know, that's it's time for me to learn to say, hey, let's pause a little bit on this, take a breath like maybe we've been talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just make sure that we've got all of our ducks in a row before we just go continue to build another 300 temples, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get this once again from a human perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we came to seminary the next day and you asked seminary students, tell me about your experience with conference.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were many.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like, oh, it was disappointing that he didn't announce new temples, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And once again, I get that from an excitement perspective, I really do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, however, President Oaks at this a year and a half ago, that it's harder to fill than to build.
[SPEAKER_00]: So one, it shouldn't really shock us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And two, why are you disappointed?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like ultimately what's the disappointment about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it the excitement of the announcement?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that in and of itself?
[SPEAKER_00]: is not only temporary, but has no salivatory power, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're exalting power.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not ordinances in the announcement.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what are we doing with the temples that are currently available?
[SPEAKER_00]: We live those of us that live here in the treasure valley.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like we're that far from any temple, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's 45 minutes from my house to the Merdy and Temple.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some people who live further, but not many, honestly.
[SPEAKER_00]: 45 minutes to an hour, most people are about an hour from the temple at most, if not closer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if we can fill the temple, then I don't know why we want five more announced.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's interesting too that the instruction given when a temple is announced, instruction about where it's going to go, all of those things often aren't even identified, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: the specific location like you said in Kabul, but maybe the church knows what they're looking at, but has been announced.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that means that there probably hasn't been a permit put in, because as soon as there's a permit put in, it's public record, everybody knows.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a builder, I heard elder Oak's President Oak say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: about kind of slowing that down a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was a part of the builder in me that was like good, like those guys can like think about building them the way they should be built and making sure they're built built correctly because it's not just blow and go from one to the next and and I'm not that that's how they've ever done it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But man, when you start getting that backed up as a builder and there's very specific groups of people they use for very specific things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The Moroni stand on the top if there's going to be a Moroni it only comes from a very limited source of people the the oxen that that the baptismal font stand on only comes from a very specific group of people murals in the endowment lands or whatever right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the gilding, the gold gilding that goes on in many of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like one or two families that go around the world and do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, you get them backed up 150 temples.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a pretty overwhelming feeling for the builder group, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, so, some of it, just I think is the realities of life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's true here too, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been dealing with persecution.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been dealing with moving from place to place back and forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're also trying to build a whole city at the same time.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're building the temple.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the idea, though, that they're, well, let me ask you this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if the Lord had come to you in one of your prayers as a state president, where you're like, can you just like fix this one for me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, tell me what to do in this.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he'd have said to you, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You sound like you were listening at my bedside.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on here?
[SPEAKER_01]: If the Lord had come to you and said, redouble your efforts, you would have gone the next day and done twice as much work for your state president calling as you did the day before, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You would have doubled the amount of prayer, the amount of fasting, the amount that you would double literally everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's interesting here because I think the people were building the temple.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they were building the town.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were dealing with all their stuff that was going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when the Lord says, read double your efforts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, I think that's a, that's a pretty specific invitation to do more.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want this thing, do more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do more for that thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: President, it reminds me of Elder Holland, Nope, Elder Bednar, was asked once how a young person could show the Lord
[SPEAKER_01]: They were just there already and they just wanted to be able to show the Lord and and other bednars counsel was fantastic he said what would it look like if you lived today as if you already had the thing you wanted would you go to bed at a different time would you eat out half as often as you do now would you watch what you watch would you have a family home evening on a Monday night?
[SPEAKER_01]: what would you go to church?
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you fulfill your calling?
[SPEAKER_01]: If you had a spouse sitting right next to you, what changes in your life?
[SPEAKER_01]: Until you're doing those things redoubling your efforts, you're not showing the Lord you're ready.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just showing the Lord.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm still here doing my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want something different, but I'm unwilling to do something different until I have it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that we're proven anything to the Lord doing it that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's a great insight and and redoubled.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, once again, is the Lord saying, go twice as often to the temple as you're going now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could take it about literal, but it probably just means an increase of not just frequency, but, but like intensity or purpose behind it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if we think about, okay, what has the Lord been teaching through living prophets recently about temple worship?
[SPEAKER_00]: then let the work of my temple and all the works, which I have appointed unto you through current profits, be continued on and not cease and let your diligence and perseverance and patience and works so all four be increased in intensity.
[SPEAKER_00]: and you will not lose your reward.
[SPEAKER_00]: To young adults who have a reward in mind, to your point, whether that be marriage, career, college, focus, overcoming a sin, I think the Lord is giving you a specific invite here to let your diligence perseverance, patience, and works be increased in intensity towards temple work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he gives some very specific counsel then about what things they should be planning for, but they don't have a temple to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's just giving them little bits of like, okay, when you have a temple, here's one thing I'd want you to do, but you don't have that yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just just up in the air and even says in verse 10 Joseph says in as much as it is out of my power.
[SPEAKER_01]: to write on this subject regularly, that to give you more information about the temple.
[SPEAKER_01]: because it's not from him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He knows much as it's out of my power to do so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will write the word of the Lord from time to time on the subject, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I can continue to give you little nuggets as the Lord gives him to me, but I can't give you more than he's willing to give me when we don't even have the house built yet, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't even have the structure in place.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much in that that I think is applicable to our lives if I want something that I don't even have the structure for, how could the Lord give it to me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's just so true and in so many facets of our lives we ask for stuff we're not ready for because it's what we know he wants for us eventually, but we haven't prepared it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, can we do 128 in like, please?
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a couple of months?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of it is about baptism for the dead, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of it is instructional, and some of it is inspirational.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have taken as my mantra one of these verses in section 128 that has just always been for me a call no matter what's going on, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I first,
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of glomed onto this particular message as a young missionary, but I have used it repeatedly in every calling.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've used it as a father.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've used it as a husband when things are going well, when things are going tough.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever, I come back over and over again to verse 22.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those first three sentences.
[SPEAKER_00]: of section 128 verse 22 might be my favorite verse of scripture because it just speaks to my heart to the kind of person I want to be and what I feel like I can hear from all modern prophets, all modern apostles and even from the Lord Himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: brethren we would include of course in this sisters shall we all of us not go on in so great cause he's just spent the previous like six versus laying out everything that's happened from April 6th, 1830 to that present day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if we could just like keep going in our own personal you know clear till October of 2025.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go forward and not backward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Courage and on onto the victory.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's not much, I mean, I'm pretty easily motivated.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like individually, this one makes me like, let's go knock some doors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, let's go face at every less active member in our ward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what can we do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm ready to rock and roll.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I add a line to that that maybe, maybe will do a little differently?
[SPEAKER_01]: It says the next, the next line says, let your hearts rejoice and be exceedingly glad, let the earth break forth into singing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those that are avid listeners to the podcast, know that I'm a music guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've conducted the choirs at the Institute, I've been a choir guy for a long long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have seen a shift in music in singing in the world, not just in the church, but in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: It used to be when I started my career, we could get a group of two to 300 high school kids in one of the neighborhood.
[SPEAKER_01]: high schools in Boise and have them be the choir and it would be easy to get two to three hundred kids regularly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those same schools now 25 years later have a hard time keeping a hundred kids involved and it's a recruiting nightmare to keep them involved.
[SPEAKER_01]: President Oaks gave a talk where he spoke about how he snuck into the back of the overflow of a chapel.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to just take the sacrament and head off to the next meeting he was in on Sunday and.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he sat there and he watched as how about half the congregation didn't sing the song that they were singing as he kind of snuck into the back there and he asked the question, is it not.
[SPEAKER_01]: True that we feel what the song is saying that the songs that we are supposed to sing to the Lord are not speaking the things that are of our hearts I think it is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: So why are we not willing to sing the song?
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to see the day in the future where Christ comes and we all rejoice in sing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But none of us practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, very few of us are practicing singing anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And having it be something that is a joyful experience that, you know, that's what they did on the barges with Brother Jared as they cross the seas.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how they kept the time was just singing together and being joyful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Moses doesn't, does that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Getting off the arc, they sing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, this right at the presentation of the planet salvation says we shouted for joy.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Hebrew word shout is sing right saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We sang for joy.
[SPEAKER_00]: The presentation of the planet salvation when the Savior is born.
[SPEAKER_00]: What did the angels do?
[SPEAKER_00]: They sang.
[SPEAKER_00]: The second coming occurs.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's going to happen?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to sing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So singing and sacred are definitely linked together.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my question to you as a singing person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: What has caused the decrease?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know the answer perfectly, but I would say there's a self there is a self-consciousness that exists now that didn't exist them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's in large measure what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've become so concerned about what everybody around me is thinking about my voice, whether it's my online platform voice or my voice in a public setting or my voice in the the high counselor and the award counselor, whatever it is,
[SPEAKER_01]: that we we've we've started looking so inward that we aren't willing to rest our spiritual self outward.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean the same way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's true maybe inner sacrametings in our fast testimony meetings.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we've thinned down the number of different people we hear we hear the same people from month to month but it's not a big smattering of our word in words anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's a sun voice that maybe isn't being sunlight.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be well maybe I'll just share
[SPEAKER_00]: musically counted in any way, shape or form.
[SPEAKER_00]: But do love to sing, part of that, honestly, is the word, Liz and I've lived in the same word for the last 20 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, listen, you want to come to a sacrament meeting where people are joyfully singing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It may not be well, but we are joyfully singing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The new planet first word, we belt it out, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We are loud, we are joyfully singing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a culture.
[SPEAKER_00]: that was started years ago and continued by quite frankly, Ward Corristers, who just refused to allow congregations to be flaccid in their singing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll never forget.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was maybe our third Sunday in this ward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Brand new to the ward.
[SPEAKER_00]: You sit down.
[SPEAKER_00]: You start singing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's early in the morning and maybe it was a slower him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: We said about
[SPEAKER_00]: And the chorus or stops us, which I was like, can you even do this?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not like a positive.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't think you could do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said his name, Moile Brown, he's passed away, but his legacy continues.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he said brothers and sisters, it says to sing with vigor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, let's start over and we sang it different.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you did.
[SPEAKER_00]: We sang with midger that second time through.
[SPEAKER_00]: So one is creating that culture.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then two, and I know this is maybe a limited, a little bit limited of an audience to make this plea to, but if you sit on the stand as a speaker or a leader, the congregation will follow you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You sing loud and with joyful voice and a smile on your face, the congregation will follow.
[SPEAKER_00]: You barely mubble the words because you're afraid
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's that's good counsel.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's also something to taking our cues from the first presidency in the brethren, right, that that we see how many in a conference session for example, they have a prelude number, they have an opening prayer and then a song.
[SPEAKER_01]: They then do some announcements and none other song so before we even hit anybody giving any kind of a talk We've heard three very clear renditions of prayer through songs and then every two or three speakers We get another song and right before the prophet you get another song.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's probably ten songs in every section and yet when we get to our own
[SPEAKER_01]: Ward conference is their state conferences or a meeting that's running a little long.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: We cut the music.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always the thing we've got to cut down, rather than, I mean, I got to get a lot of stakes in the valley to do with the institute choir and do their state choirs or state conferences.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, I'm not kidding.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some stakes will have 10 speakers in a two hour, three hour meeting.
[SPEAKER_01]: 10 speakers and they'll cut, they'll cut the music down to two or three songs, but they'll have 10 speakers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you look at the model we get from the brethren, it's a totally different model.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what it does is it allows the congregation to be a part of the worship.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that's what they're doing with the new hymns.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're engaging us in a joyful sound, not just sit quietly and listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, I think there's an appetite for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think people are struck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reason I say that, I think sister Browning's talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: on primary music, yeah, probably has already been studied by almost all Elder's Carmen relief societies in the in the church, yeah, we had to listen and that could cover it and I think it might have already been covered in almost all of them because we recognize the power of music.
[SPEAKER_00]: We felt it as primary children.
[SPEAKER_00]: We felt it in general conferences.
[SPEAKER_00]: We felt it in stake and ward conferences and ward meetings.
[SPEAKER_00]: We felt it in our own homes
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just think we're struggling somehow to like get that feeling to come out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I appreciate that and I appreciate the little platform.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've allowed me to take care and I get that I'm a music guy asking for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would also maybe qualify that a little bit with, I don't think I'm like an exceptionally odd music guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't wake up in the morning listening to choir music and, I mean, I only listen to it when I'm trying to find something I need to have a choir do, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And not a choir guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're talking about like, I, there is something to singing that is obviously a way of worship that is unparalleled.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not great at explaining how, but anybody who's ever sang or listened, everybody who listened to that children's choir sing Get Samity, they know exactly what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: They felt exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: They felt exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to make us read those words, it could have been from the world's greatest order.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just would not have been as spiritually meaningful as what we experience when those kids sang that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the great, a great quote is that in the church, we need higher quality music and more of it and better speaking and less of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, our more cars are using that all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: She quotes that regularly in our choir or word choir practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just true.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, I just love that that the beginning of verse 22 for you is such a rallying cry in a.
[SPEAKER_01]: motivator.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just wonder if we maybe were to encourage those around us to sing, whether it's you know, actual singing or sharing or testimony or whatever it is that gets them the Anthems.
[SPEAKER_01]: What does it say in the next line, isn't it that the dead speak forth Anthems?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's used still using musical language, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Anthems, eternal praise to the King of Annual.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is this is just speaking to what it will look like.
[SPEAKER_01]: I often talk to
[SPEAKER_01]: young adults at the institute who, when I say, hey, would you, would you come sing it with us in the choir?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, oh, I'm not, I'm not a sing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my, my response is always, well, that's what I'm here for.
[SPEAKER_01]: My job is to help you get better.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they don't go to a Book of Mormon class because you already have read the Book of Mormon.
[SPEAKER_01]: You go to look for about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I can share this little anecdotal story where I think, oh, and Christ comes back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're all in the great valley of Adam on diam, and I, I don't know, it's probably not going to look like that, but let's pretend.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's up on the stage and he stands to start the meeting and he says, what all of you who practice singing in your life, stand and sing, I am a child of God.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you'll get to stand.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you didn't practice because Jesus, you can't fake him out, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm practicing this thing, I will be better at it when he comes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can't imagine that God and Christ are not great singers themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if it's not good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's in the way you'll have a seminary student, of course, that just doesn't want to sing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've taken a slightly different one.
[SPEAKER_00]: When they say, yeah, I'm not really a very good singer, or I can't sing, I will respond with what you did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: You did.
[SPEAKER_00]: You did when Jesus was born.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: When the plan of salvation was presented, you're going to want to when he comes again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you did.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can, so that's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a lot of this section that we maybe skipped over and didn't really touch on and really it's still in effect.
[SPEAKER_01]: The councils to have the recorder and all the things that are in there and just basically what we're doing right now and back into the dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do love this section and love, love the conversations that we've had it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Share some closing thoughts to it with us about whether this or to young adults directly or just what would you leave us with?
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, sometimes we're a little shy, gun shy of asking people to do more because it seems like aren't we already asking people to do a lot?
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe we are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the Lord is asking us to do a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would just invite all the young adults who are listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you just please focus your time to be where you are when you're supposed to be there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Too often we try and divide our attention in a
[SPEAKER_00]: when you are at church be at church, when you're on a date, be on a date, when you are doing your homework, do your homework, when you're at school, be at school.
[SPEAKER_00]: We carry with us the world's ultimate distraction tool and it has become such, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe one of the ultimate forms of discipleship is our capacity and ability to not be distracted and to be hyper-focused,
[SPEAKER_00]: be where we're supposed to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe, maybe that's one of Elder Swars' invitations to live a more reverent life.
[SPEAKER_00]: His reverences indicated by our ability to keep our focus on that which we are doing or those whom we are with.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just promise if you'll do that, if you'll stay focused on what you're doing, when you're doing it, you'll find so much deeper and greater joy and meaning in each of those individual experiences, rather than feeling like you're trying to get through something to get to something else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brod Butler, thank you that idea that it was the primary song, say, reverence is more than just quietly sitting, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You've tied it to that idea that we can expand in that space better when we're not confining ourselves to just getting through the event, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: This has been great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate your time and look forward to having you back.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll come back and do it with us again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Always.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you then.