[SPEAKER_02]: And this is episode four hundred and twenty eight of wheel bearings.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am Sam a bull samad from telemetry and I am not Who are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, my name is Chad Krister.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully friend of the pod.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm back again for yeah, I said badly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a bad last time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, we did have a few complaints, but you know
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it probably from the other host the half this week actually, there is that, there is that speaking of which
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and I'm Craig Cole back by unpopular demand.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just on your last week.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, well, but here we are again, the colon robber on the road this weekend and robbing the colon, or robbing her and his wife are somewhere on vacation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the colon and Russ are doing the same thing somewhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: to a
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's still out there in the air.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is Jason Sue still put stuff up there or regular.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's it's a long story that we don't talk about on air, but um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's it's good to see Craig.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw him a little earlier this year on everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, everybody in their mother, we have four programs.
[SPEAKER_00]: which I like to the RAV for a lot and I am genuinely surprised, Sam, that your or I guess just say former, back to my colleagues, didn't select it, that's the finalist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yes, you know, it doesn't bring that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't have to bring the negative side of that up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, I am surprised it wasn't selected.
[SPEAKER_02]: there were there was a lot of utilities on the list this year as there has been in previous years and so you know the the three finalists in each of the categories for the North American car truck and utility of the year were announced at the LA Auto Show this week and for utility vehicles they picked the Hyundai policy the lucid gravity and the Nissan Leaf.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, you know, each in its own way, you know, arguably, you know, frankly, I would not, I would not classify the leaf as a utility vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would just, but, you know, it's a car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that, you know, aside from matters anymore, guys, the people got to make us call, whatever they want, whatever they want.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, exactly, which is why, you know, I had, you know, pushed for the idea that, you know, the,
[SPEAKER_02]: the neck to a jury should also classify things how they soft fit, rather than how the manufacturer soft fit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think at a real high level, before we talk about it, because you had the loose, you have the loose of gravity or just had it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'm really right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'm really curious about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think at a real kind of 30,000 foot level, does there need to be
[SPEAKER_00]: a car truck and utility of the year because like the truck category, it's always hard to fill that from my understanding, but like this year it was like a trim and one of the two engine, not even a trim, like two of the three, you know, are, you know, I would not have even
[SPEAKER_02]: considered them qualified to be on talking about the ram 1500 hemmy yeah so in the trucks you had the Ford Maverick logo which is just a trim level of the Maverick.
[SPEAKER_02]: you have the ramp 1500 hammy, which is literally just an engine option.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the badge, the symbol of the team badge.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the ramp 2500, which is significantly updated for 2025.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the one there was the F-150 logo, which was just the other one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the
[SPEAKER_00]: had some other stuff to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The F-150 is wheels and stickers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the mid-cycle of the Rivian R-1-T was on the long list.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can't remember.
[SPEAKER_02]: Was that the quad motor?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was from last year.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, actually, I think it was the quad motor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because the R-1-T mid-cycle came out in 2024.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the quad motor was on the long list.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's just another power train option, you know, so it's not an all new vehicle, so you know, I think I think they really need to take a look at, you know, what is going to qualify, you know, and I think they need to rethink some of these things, you know, what, what goes into what category, you know, what actually qualifies, you know, for trucks, you know, and for the others as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I would have replaced, I would have replaced the lucid, um, with the, uh, RAF4.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that the lucid's not any good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't mind in Germany.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think, I think the RAF4 is definitely an improvement.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we talked about it, um, back what a month or two ago after we drove it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, it's, it's certainly, you know, in terms of its position in the market.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's way more significant than the gravity.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it was last year and so far this year, the number one selling single name plate in the United States market, you know, it sells more than the F-150.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's, you know, there are some things about the the Rav that, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: you know there was some questionable decisions, you know, I think they did tear it in tears every year, especially on the limited like understanding that money with that or you know, or the GR sport, you know, same thing with the GR sport.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you're just very good at efficiency and reliability, of course.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But anyway, and then the one area they fall short in is hiding where they take cost out of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not very good at that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially in this one, you know, it was very obvious where they took cost out.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's a lot about the interior that even on the GR sport and the limited,
[SPEAKER_02]: which, you know, that disappointed me, you know, the driving experience was definitely better, especially in the plug-in hybrid, but the plug-in hybrid is not going to be available until next spring.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it'll, it'll based on the way they've been doing this, it'll probably be on the list for next year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The core models, the Red 4 core models, I know you already talked about this, but like I like the core models, the updates there a lot, the two non-core models, the woodland and the GR Sport.
[SPEAKER_00]: are still confused into me after I've driven them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I understand what they're trying to do, but I wasn't feeling it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even the GRSport, like you had, I mean, you were both there at that program at some point, like you had to really risk going potentially going to jail to really kind of feel the difference in this suspension tuning.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was, nobody's trying to drive the, nobody's gonna drive a RAV for like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Huck the body, you know, but he's taking the hook and off road either automakers just love to know, but they don't even have any space in such a stream levels that they're low costs for them, but they brought in the lineup, you know, it says, well, as much as I've personally criticized, um, rock Creek, the, uh, Nissan, rock Creek stuff, they at least try to put underbody protection under there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's cheap plastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's cheap plastic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's not, I don't think it's not going to hold up.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going
[SPEAKER_00]: But I believe an effort was at least made where busy with lunch or not busy with lunch, I'm sorry, but with lunch, just had some rigid fog lights, like that's that's a difference.
[SPEAKER_02]: And well, it does have the the the lower part of the bumper cover is molded to vaguely look like a skid plate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead and use it like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I just, it, those seem to make a little bit less sense to me, especially when in the same show where you have a rave, or not a rave, I'm sorry, a four-runner, which, if you're going to kind of do what, what Woodland is going to do, you're probably just going to be happy with the four-runner.
[SPEAKER_00]: and the new forum is really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know pricey is obviously, but just I see a lot of confusion into a yet as sure room, which is why I liked the, we're going to have track.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, but why I liked the Sultara, the first Sultara, a lot more than I liked the BZ4X.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were the same car, but I felt like
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that either one was particularly good EV, but like I felt like the Sultara made much more sense of a super showroom where there isn't a bunch of electrification and plug-in and crossover kind of kind of stuff where in Toyota you walk in there and you're like, well here's a
[SPEAKER_00]: mediocre EV, but there's a plug-in wrap for it, here's a plug-in toy at Priests, and here's like just all of these other kind of better in that case better sort of options, so I don't
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't think, you know, the, the, um, the new, uh, BZ and Sultara are way better.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they are, you know, I think fully competitive vehicles in their segments now.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and they're priced more aggressively than they were when they launched.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, they, um, they.
[SPEAKER_02]: The pricing, you know, to it announced the pricing for the 2026 rap force this week for the hybrids, not for the plug-in hybrids, you know, it ranges from 31-9 for the base LE, which is a few hundred dollars less than it was last year, up to the limited at 43,300, which is more than it was last year.
[SPEAKER_02]: So most of the trim levels are a little more expensive than they were last year.
[SPEAKER_02]: The base model is slightly cheaper, but not many people are going to buy that one anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they can at least add for ties and say, look, it looks like price that ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why they do have.
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone's and every single one's hybrid now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, the cheapest rap 4 you can get now is more expensive than it was last year because you can't, you can't get a non-hybrid rap 4 anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is slightly cheaper than the cheapest rap 4 hybrid was for 2025.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a fun trick, like the grandwagon here, like, oh, well, we got rid of the wagon here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the grandwagon here starts 20 grand less, but if you would have just priced the old wagon here, it's $5,000 more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Market pain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Love me some marketing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, we, you know, we won't, we won't get pricing on the, the plug-ins until probably sometime in the early spring, late winter, early spring, the differential on the light ones as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like five grand.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the old ones, let's see, the plug-in hybrid SE, the 2025 was 44815 and then 4865 for the XSE.
[SPEAKER_02]: So my guess is that we will probably see those start, you know, it'll probably start somewhere in that, you know, 4647,000 dollar range.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that GR sport will probably cost somewhere between 53 and 55, which is a lot's the correct answer, Chad, shaking your head.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if we share a video, but I'm sure he's shaking my head now, that's not it.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: But hey, it's less than the average transaction price.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's the address, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And the new plug-in hybrid rev does get 50 miles on a charge.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it can basically serve as an EV for almost everybody almost all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you assume you have somewhere to plug it in, if you, again, I will repeat our long-running message.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you do not have somewhere to plug in your vehicle on a daily basis, don't buy a plug in hybrid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just get a regular hybrid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or an EV.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or you, well, yeah, don't mind if you, yeah, yeah, if it's all driver at the EA station three hundred fifty kilowatt, we don't want that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't, yeah, don't, yeah, don't, yeah, I mean, that's that's always everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a rant that Craig has heard more times than I'm sure he cares to admit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like you have to qualify a plug-in hybrid buyer as a dealer.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to qualify me exact same way you choose a better driver.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like this idea that this P have is the sort of like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, leading the way, it's this crossover kind of device that will get people into a full electric world, I think is, is, I think it's BS and I wouldn't go that far, you know, I think it is a good bridge technology for a lot of consumers, but again,
[SPEAKER_02]: with that stipulation that it only makes sense if you have some order plug it in on a daily basis and if you can if you can plug it in every night or you have workplace charging and you can plug it in every day then you know you can basically use it as a buff but if you are not going to plug it in consistently then you're just dragging around four or five hundred pounds of dead weight you know and you're going to get worse feel economy than you would with the regular
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, not by a lot, but just, you know, I'll tell you what my barber does.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has a G grant Cherokee for by Ian.
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't know he could plug it in.
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I see a lot of, I still see, I'm going to go to his pulling in to, like, EA stations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cherokee is the supercharger or the the fast charger for it's like, work for somebody not tell you this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, um, but on the other hand though, I think he rev.
[SPEAKER_00]: makes a bit more sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the difference is just like with the RAV4.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like on that RAV4 program, at least on the way I was on, they let us drive the GR support first thing in the morning, and they only wanted us to drive it on electricity on light.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why they only wanted to drive it on light.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, they actually got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: What it was, they wanted everybody to have an opportunity to drive it on electricity only.
[SPEAKER_00]: you could still drive it later in the day after the battery was right and and I did but on electricity only that car does not perform as well as electricity and gas combined which most people have stopped most people are going to if it's not using the gas engine to help you're going to get okay performance but you're not going to get buzz performance and in an
[SPEAKER_00]: you get the full dev performance sort of all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that like especially on larger applications like Grandwagon here, um, I think that makes a lot of sense, but I think because you get
[SPEAKER_00]: 150 miles of range out of an era of like that's one of those kind of you that's kind of one of those platforms that if you live with it every day You really really you really start to realize how little you use the gas That's 50 miles a day even to the European 70 miles a day Yes, most people nine the five percent of the people are gonna fall kind of under that But you're still using a psychological you're still using a lot of electricity
[SPEAKER_00]: of electricity capacity when you go out.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have an era of the year 150 miles on, you're really going to then see, and I never used this gas such an.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that really becomes a bridge kind of technology, so like with a scout or with, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if it's the land of several ships that the truck with it, like I think you I think you go by a scout with the traw with the Harvestor era that at the first time around you realize you've got you never need the I never knew that gas engine and then when you go down to rebuke the next time around you like now Give me the full bath.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_02]: Unless you're doing a lot of long-distance towing in which case you're probably stick with the E-rev.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, that tangent, uh, I'm going to talk a little bit about what I'm driving this week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Neither of you had anything to drive this week, but, um, I have the lucid gravity grand touring.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... you know drove the gravity back in the spring uh... in california and was really impressed with it uh... you know it's it's a for a luxury three-row electric SUV you know i you know it's probably my favorite of of what's available out there
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, probably the closest, the closest direct competitor to it would be something like the Mercedes EQS SUV.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I frankly like this vehicle a lot better than the, than the Mercedes.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the grand touring, you know, is the trim that they launched with.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the, the high end trim.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that means it's got dual motors, it's got 828 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's, it's a pretty good size three row.
[SPEAKER_02]: looked at its profile and said, you know, this is really more of a minivan than an SUV.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you could make that argument, you know, it's it's lower than most.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's certainly lower than off-road SUVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, this is this is not something to meant to compete, you know, directly against the capabilities of something like a
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, if anything, it's more wagon, you know, probably the closest thing, you know, to compare it to in terms of its form factor is the Ford flex or, you know, even even the the latest iteration of the key accountable.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know that's that's kind of the the the shape that it has so it's not as tall doesn't have that much ground clearance although you can it with the air suspension you can get it up to nine inches of ground clearance so it's not meant as an off-road or although you know you can take it on some light trails if you raise the ride height up
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the interior, they made a bunch of changes, you know, you can, you can see the evolution from the air to this, you know, so you still have, you know, big upper screen, although now the upper screen is just one continuous display, rather than three segments like it was in the air.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got the squared off steering wheel, you know, so it's more fuel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody has to have that these days apparently.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you see the instrumentation, it's exactly that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're just going to get that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you flatten the top so you can actually see the instrument cluster in front of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then instead of the retracting pilot screen as they call it in the air that can pull back up into the dashboard, this one has a fixed lower center display.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can have different information on the two screens.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can, for example, have your maps on the upper screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can have your media player down on the,
[SPEAKER_02]: on the lower screen or vice versa.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can flip things, switch things around.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can also rather than you can also have up to three widgets in the right hand portion of the screen, the infotainment part of the screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can have one little window that shows you your map view and media player next to it and something else in the third one.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I think overall it's a pretty good layout and it's fairly, it's fairly easy to use interface.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of my complaints with it is navigating around a lot of the stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a couple of...
[SPEAKER_02]: touch pads, haptic controls on the stream of these books, which were kind of finicky to use.
[SPEAKER_02]: They, you know, sometimes they work and, you know, so it's a combination of, you know, touch and also clickable.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, for those old enough to remember the blackberry storm, it's kind of like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, it's a four-way rocker on each of these switches on the two sides of the steering wheel.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you can also swipe across those.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for example, on the right hand one, you can swipe up or down and go between the full, full infotainment display, like just the maps or just the media player or the widgets and forget what the third option is there.
[SPEAKER_02]: On the left-hand side, you've got your controls for your cruise control and things like that, which when I was driving the other day doing a longer drive, I found that very finicky.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's a software issue or a hardware issue with the switch itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, sometimes if I wanted to adjust the cruise control speed, it would respond other times
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they've had issues with the air software too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've heard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: There have been issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it's gotten better over the years.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was certainly a lot worse when they first started, but it's still not a hundred percent lucid does have.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of the stuff is in the touch screen, but they do have most of the key controls like temperature control and fan speed and volume control with physical controls across the bottom of the pilot screen, the lower screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's rockers for fan speed and temperature.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can also adjust those by voice if you want.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's a roller for volume, which works fine, which works quite nicely.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, they've got that, and also it's got manual vents, which is always good.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you don't have to go into the touch interface to adjust where the air is blowing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, you know, that to me is always a non-starter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Overall, I generally enjoy driving this vehicle, even though I have, I don't have a need for such a large vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not, it's large, but it's not as large as, say, an escalate IQ.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not by any stretch of the imagination.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, I found,
[SPEAKER_02]: drive and I didn't recall noticing this when I drove it on the launch drive in the spring, but especially if you put it in the most aggressive regen mode, it's it can be a little rough like right when you're starting to move or coming to a full stop.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not quite as the control of the motors is not quite as refined.
[SPEAKER_02]: as I would have hoped.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not bad, but you know, it could, it could use some tweaking on the the calibration of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something you're going to, like, that's something you really do notice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, when it's not right, it feels, it feels not finished or it feels cheap to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I, if I'd have spent,
[SPEAKER_00]: whatever demon-rony or beer vehicle is, that would be a real turn off to me knowing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it has to be smooth, especially when somebody like me saw on a 30,000-dollar leaf can get that right, even though they did take away one pedal.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's...
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's a different discussion, but yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So overall, it's a beautiful interior on this thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got the full glass roof, which, again, can be a little problematic sometimes depending on where the sun is, because sometimes it can be hard to block the sun.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's got sun visors up there, but it can be a little challenging sometimes.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then what does it cost to replace that damn thing?
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you inevitably get a stone chip, yeah, it's why.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be many, many thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_00]: A hell ball of a size of a basketball.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I just, or some kids are throwing stones off the overpass, not that there's anything wrong with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's actually happened to Michigan, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_03]: It probably has.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's terrible, but yeah, like what if something hits it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what are you going to do?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the same with like the MBUX hyper screen.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know somebody's going to crack that thing one day.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what the hell's that going to cost her a place?
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't even just sell the car to scrap it at that point, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's it's told.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that that can happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: The one thing this car did not have.
[SPEAKER_02]: yet the gravity does not yet have is the hands-free driving assist that you know is now on the air so it's got you know hands-on lane centering and adaptive cruise control again something I noticed yesterday while going for a drive for a couple of hours is there were on three different occasions the adaptive cruise control would just say adaptive cruise control not available
[SPEAKER_02]: no indication why it wasn't it wasn't a case of the sun you know blinding the cameras or anything like that because it was facing the wrong direction so I'm not sure what was going on there so again needs needs some work on the software but you know the the interior you know the seats are very comfortable the this one
[SPEAKER_02]: Second row heated seats the front seats are also heated and ventilated So, you know, most of the stuff that you would expect in a luxury vehicle one one thing that's kind of unique to the gravity That nobody else really has is for the front
[SPEAKER_02]: They have an optional pad that goes in there that you can flip out and basically use it as a bench.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can open up the front and you can have two people can sit there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you're watching the sunset or something, pull up to the beach, sit there, watch the sunset, and then fold the pad back into the front, close the lid and get back into the car and drive home.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's there's plenty of cargo space in here.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can get it with two or three rows.
[SPEAKER_02]: The one I was driving has three rows in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is very quick.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it'll do sub three seconds or sixty with a hundred and twenty eight horsepower.
[SPEAKER_02]: They
[SPEAKER_02]: What else was on this one?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also a performance, an optional performance package, that mine did not have.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that gives you the dynamic handling package, that gives you different airbag system.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's the standard airbag system, just has single chamber airbags, which is what was on the car I'm driving.
[SPEAKER_02]: The dynamic handling package gives you triple rate airbags to three different spring rates.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a three chamber system that gives you a little more control over the wheel motions and body motions and can lift it as low as five inches up to nine inches.
[SPEAKER_02]: It also has rear wheel steering and painted brake calipers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Package on there.
[SPEAKER_02]: The, you know, I didn't do much, you know, aggressive driving in windy roads this week, but when I went drove it in the spring, we did get a chance to drive it on some fairly fun roads near Santa Barbara.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, for a vehicle this size, it handles really well.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's really nice to drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: see there's also the surreal sound system pro which is a 22-speaker sound system.
[SPEAKER_03]: I need 35 speakers at least.
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean 22.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's for the poor.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have enough lots, then.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this one also had the optional 22, 23 inch wheel and tire package.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the standard set up, you get 20 inch front wheels, 21 inch rearers, and then the first option is 21 fronts, 22 rearers, and this one had 22 fronts and 23 inch rearers, which are very big wheels and tires, really not necessary.
[SPEAKER_02]: The wheels look really nice, the great looking wheels, be it?
[SPEAKER_02]: you know you don't need that and it does eat significantly into your range.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you get the base set up the 20 and 21 inch wheels it's rated at 437 miles of range with the 22s and 23s it's 386 miles and actually there is let's see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 306.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also a package that drops it down to just 308 miles.
[SPEAKER_03]: How are you supposed to rotate those tires when they're staying?
[SPEAKER_03]: You're not supposed to.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to dismount them then every time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's the tires are different sizes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you're not flopping side to side.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't do that with no radials.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're just, you're just done then.
[SPEAKER_03]: OK. Another reason not to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this looks happy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, of course they are.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can go and put, like, whatever that's in tires on your $100,000.
[SPEAKER_03]: I believe Michelin is so tired.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this one was rated at 386 miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's so pretty good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fantastic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, it's very good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Although, you know, as is typically been the case, you know, Lucid's, you know, tend to be on the more efficient side of the EV spectrum.
[SPEAKER_02]: but they like Tesla, they also usually fall short of their official EPA ratings.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in this case, I was averaging 2.7 miles per kilowatt hour over the week, which with a 123 kilowatt hour battery works out to only 3302 miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: which is closer, you know, it's about what I was seeing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does charge very fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it's a 920 kilowatt or 920 volt electrical system on this thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And other tests have seen it charge at almost 400 kilowatts on the right charge.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have the right charger, I took it over to my local supercharger yesterday.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because this thing does have a native J-3400 charging port or NACS port, so I took it over to the supercharger station.
[SPEAKER_02]: The gravity does have plug-in charge built in, so I just pulled up the cord out of the charging dispenser plugged into the car, and within about 15 seconds it was charging.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I plugged it in, it was at 26% state of charge, and it quickly climbed up to about 228 kilowatts of charging, and it stayed there for quite a while, even when I unplugged it at 80% charge, it was still going 110 kilowatts.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sam was causing a local brown out in the upper area, so that was the escalated IQ that
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I killed those.
[SPEAKER_00]: I killed one of the charging stations in Nipps only any of the early left-fire American ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kept throttling thermal throttling those with the with the hummer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, so now I pulled in when I pulled into the supercharger yesterday, which is just down the road from that E.A.
[SPEAKER_02]: station.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was an ID buzz and escalate IQ and a mochi rally all charging there.
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, diversity of vehicles.
[SPEAKER_03]: How about that?
[SPEAKER_00]: The nice thing about version three superchargers, um, even other peak get 250 kilowatts is, um, it's 250 kilowatts to each pole so you don't have to worry about, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: splitting or sharing with the person next to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Sam, my father's brown model three long time ago, while I was charging.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He might cause a brown out with that particular charging pedestal, but he won't ruin anyone else's day.
[SPEAKER_03]: So.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, unless they are sensitive electronics at home, that need to be full of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So is the, so it's the loose at air like they're dream pie in the sky, 30,000 foot vehicle, and the gravity brings it back down to earth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that why it's in the air in a gravity?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, it's, it's, it's kind of in between because the next model is coming out next to the mid-size.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's actually supposed to be called the earth, the lucid earth.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, are they going to have, I hate this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then named them after clouds, like theorists and stratists.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I think that's been done somewhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, damn.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a house.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the one criticism that I'll have in Sammy had that you set the same thing regarding software.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I like the idea of physical buttons, but I've been in some cars and the lucid air was one of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're even like there was still a software layer between the physical buttons.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like Craig that last air that I drove, whatever the mama thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: one of the drivers said, we know it wouldn't go down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that it was a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it was an error.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people wasn't a button switcher.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was a computer error.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the blaze or EV, what I first drove that before they had their stop sale and the recall, there were physical buttons for climate control and stuff, but they froze.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there was again a software layer in between.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: In theory, I like the idea of a pleasant work.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I can't bus.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the key of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: In theory, I like the idea of a software to have been vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in practice, I think that there still means to be some work.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that loosens our extremely efficient.
[SPEAKER_00]: Their battery motor combinations are really next level in engineering.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just need somebody to buy them, I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they have a lot of money though, don't they?
[SPEAKER_00]: They have a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they don't have infinite patience.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the Germans, the Germans, I mean, the new stuff from Mercedes-Benz is pretty good.
[SPEAKER_00]: The new class, however, you pronounce it, the new class, BMW stuff's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And does that even exist anymore, I don't know?
[SPEAKER_00]: I like what Lucid's doing at some level.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the blood jury is there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like, I think that it is a stuff very clever and I think their engineering is really solid.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just have some bugs that really need to squash and I feel like if they were bought out by somebody that could really get there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, some years ago before Apple gave up on trying to get into the car business, you know, I had made the suggestion on multiple occasions that, you know, instead of trying to develop their own, they should just buy lucid because, you know, if there's any car company that is closest to, kind of, Apple's way of thinking,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it would be lucid, and the thing that lucid has always needed is, you know, more operational expertise, you know, in dealing with supply chains and manufacturing, and those sorts of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's the absolute great act.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, specifically Tim Apple.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, because Steve Jobs brought him in,
[SPEAKER_00]: to, I mean, as the operations manager, because it was like, and that's when iPhone went from, hey, here's a fun little project to global domination.
[SPEAKER_00]: And while the Intel era for Apple computers, in hindsight, not particularly great, um, at the helm to have Apple, you know, that moved to Silicon in the integration and how well everything now is optimized and works well.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't think Apple should buy it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think Apple should make cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now, I could see how lucid would be a good fit if they wanted to get into that business.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they've given up on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So which is probably good for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: They shouldn't have been thinking about it anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would want to be able to, for a company that likes operating on 40% profit margins, getting into the car business was always an insane proposition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, one one other detail with the with the gravity that I've also experienced with the air is the door handles, you know, so the the door handles pop out, you know, they when they're normally they sit flush with the rest of the door, you know, and when you as you approach they're supposed to pop out and a lot of the time probably maybe a third to a half of the time when I walk up to the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: with the the key fob in my pocket and you know have a key fob and there's also an NFC card which doesn't seem to work at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know the doors did not pop out unless I would actually take it out of my pocket.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that was the Faraday cage pants on again.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know you know a copper line probably told me not to use those when I'm driving but it's can't help myself.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're so comfortable and breathable I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well and you and you're trying to protect you know
[SPEAKER_02]: your insides and maybe it's an example so that was that was a little finicky I mean they don't they always opened up you know once I pulled the fob out of my pocket but you know having it in my pocket and not opening just you know was kind of annoying
[SPEAKER_00]: hopefully the Chinese are going to fix the problem for all of us by banning stupid door handles and hopefully that catches on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that would be nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be very nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, the manoroni that I got is not actually the one for the car I was driving.
[SPEAKER_02]: It lacks some of the things that were on this car.
[SPEAKER_02]: The car I had was finished in Aurora Green Metallic, which is a lovely color.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Lucid unfortunately doesn't have any really bold colors, especially on the gravity.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the first green is a good color shades of gray.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Jordan Rainbow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Altogether, it came to a grand total of 117,750 dollars.
[SPEAKER_00]: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, when you look at it in the context of the segment, it's expensive, but it's it's not insanely expensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, you know, I would, I would probably take this over a Volvo EX90, which is similarly price.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the starting price for the grand touring is $94,900, so $95,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: And didn't they lower it recently?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, um, they just announced this week at the L.A. Auto Show, they announced the gravity touring trim.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lower trim is grand, but not, not quite as grand.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you could still tour, but still still, still very nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that one starts at 79.9.
[SPEAKER_02]: That one does have a slightly smaller battery.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's been decontented a bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: The batteries.
[SPEAKER_02]: They took a few modules out of the battery So that brings it down to 89 kilowatt hours.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 89 kilowatt hours from the 123 for the grand touring
[SPEAKER_02]: And that still gets you over 300 miles of range for the touring trim.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it charges very fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll add.
[SPEAKER_02]: 200 miles on an appropriate charger.
[SPEAKER_02]: It'll add 200 miles of range in about 15 minutes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Zurt is 64 for the for the grand touring is about 3.4 seconds.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's 4 seconds for the touring, which is still more than fast enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nobody needs that kind of speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that cheaper model puts you in within five grand of like an ionic malign and an EV9 at the higher end
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I'd have to, I'd have to, I'd have to drive on, but that's, I mean, all these cars are stupid, it's one, seven, I can't believe that I'm saying that any of these are good deal, but I love the Ionic 9 and, but they're so far at least works, but like, I feel like if I could get into a lucid experience for now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if I was buying, you know, if I was looking at a top of the line, ionic nine versus the touring, the grant, you know, the gravity touring, I think I would have to very seriously consider the gravity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the problem is Hyundai will be around in five years or that will lose it beast Yeah, but you will they wore honor your warranty if they're out of business and there and there and lies the problem with software to find vehicles You know, it things you know become Very iffy down the road if the creator of your software to find vehicle Find some selves Undefined Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I like I like I like I had like I had Nick Fiskar.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, you could say that theoretically Chad may could in theory as an example as an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean just a new Fiskar.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean Craig you were there Sam did you go to that GM thing a couple week I'm out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I really aren't closer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you were there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that's my brain doesn't work anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm good old um
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, fishers are everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, I knew I'd see them everywhere, but it was still wild.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like walking out of the hotel or the venue.
[SPEAKER_00]: At any random time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the company needs a button.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, all the unsold inventory, you know, basically put them into taxi and ride hailing fleets in New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a really good person around.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a really good half as interesting video, so it's like six minutes long, and the half is interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would you channel right around the same time that event happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: That does a fantastic job at explaining why all those cars are in New York and how they're fixing them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't necessarily want to say I learned anything really new, but it was really fun to see it presented that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll send you a link for the shoutouts because I think it's really
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I software defines, I hate that term so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's the only way out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some nice potential capabilities with a software to find vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you can upgrade the capabilities of vehicle over its lifespan.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the problem is you have to support that software.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have to support the underlying hardware that makes it work.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, there's certain things that shouldn't be software defined.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, for example, which direction you're vence are facing?
[SPEAKER_02]: That correct.
[SPEAKER_02]: That should be hard word to find, not software to find.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_03]: And your door handles, which is probably just fine to have a mechanical latch.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, okay, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those just absolutely be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sam, when you were talking about the buttons on the steering wheel, it made me think of a really stupid idea, which would be, do you remember the old IBM, not Lenovo, not before Lenovo bought them, but the old IBM think bads, that had the little red nubby in the middle of the network.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've done that for a very long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, put that on a steering wheel if you're going to do some weird sort of swipey dials touch sensitive whatever just put a little red no right in the middle just like the Lexus remote touch system right where you've had a little more talk to a track to bring bring back the IBM track pad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, make make IBM great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good, I think I think it's too late for that, but I think it probably is a good around.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, again, like the air, you know, there's a lot to like about the gravity, but there's just, you know, there's little details that are not quite finished.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, one, one other detail that I noticed the other day when I was, all it was trying to do is just
[SPEAKER_02]: And I realized that one of the software defined capabilities is as a subscription for reverse.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's just a transmission selector.
[SPEAKER_02]: It will not go into drive or reverse unless your seat belt is enlarged.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I mean, I when I'm driving I always wear a seat belt as everyone should as you should But safer to be sometimes if I'm just moving the car to feet to reposition it in my driveway You know, I will just hop in you know, just to reposition it and I realized why won't this go into driving?
[SPEAKER_00]: I judge
[SPEAKER_00]: I've jokes about this with some automakers, but I'm actually pretty serious, like there should be an auto journalist like setting.
[SPEAKER_00]: that like below like three miles an hour or two or three miles an hour, that kind of stuff doesn't activate, you know, you don't just sell it to the seatbelt warning chime, um, the automatic headlights are off, um, the mirrors stay out instead of closing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like a car wash mode, but just for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think here's stay out at least specifically from the draft.
[SPEAKER_00]: The doors don't
[SPEAKER_02]: It just gets like one just just have it behind a special code, you know, so you tap and you just tap in a code on the screen and then it gives you a journalist mode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that gives you it can take your photos with the lights on, the the door handles retracted, the mirrors out, yeah, it's gosh, I hate getting them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still in this vehicle, sir.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, pretty common for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll get one and the last person had the the extra cluster brightness clicked all the way up to the permanent day I'm blinding yeah, and then I'll climb in a night and then I can't see for an hour because it just you're my retinas out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a future they had on their older models to with the the wheel for adjusting the brightness of the cluster for whatever reason there was that one extra setting that would just.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what the game was.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the GM car, you started on that last click.
[SPEAKER_00]: What also turned on the dome light?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Turn the brightness all the way up and then don't light, which was also, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: From the company that stopped the boosted holes on the the wipers on the turn signal stock along with the high beams and everything that I'm surprised I didn't put it on the gear selector as well and what other features can they fan some of you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they can sneak that on there too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Remember when you could adjust fan speed and climate control on the steering?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when there were separate buttons for that GM did that in the 90s, remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: 90s early 2000s like you had radio controls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was in the time when they had like 30 buttons on the steering wheel.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Pontiac did that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the out driving excitement.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me get my reading glasses, which button is it now?
[SPEAKER_03]: and it's the scene from Tommy Boy where he smashes the car on the desk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Since the guy who had a windows phone when we were talking about old blackberries.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had so much speaking, good, I'm not going to segue us into, uh, continue to instalantis, maybe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yeah, let's talk about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's do that recon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I saw this we've seen this car for two or three years now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think I mean they they first show they first released photos of the wagon your s and the recon back in 2022 I want to say I think it was
[SPEAKER_02]: It was late 22 and the fall 22 and then the first time I saw it in person was like March or so of 2024, they did a round table with Antonio Filosa in Auburn Hills and they had the wagging your ass in the Recon there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, I've been seeing them around here on the roads for, you know, at least the last six nine months of testing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, now they are finally releasing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they finally gave us, you know, specs and pricing and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it the all-electric GPU we're hoping for?
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the all electric Jeep.
[SPEAKER_03]: It certainly is one.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you need a Jeep with battery power, the recon will do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, Jeep, you know, over the last four or five years has at the Easter Jeep safari, they did three different iterations of a battery electric Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be called the magneto, you know, that continue to evolve over the years and this, you know, this sort of fits in the same segment as the Wrangler, but you know, it doesn't have the Wrangler kind of styling to it, you know, it's more of anything, you know, it's more like an electric Bronco, it does have removable doors.
[SPEAKER_02]: it's got the sky one touch holding fabric roof panel you can take out the rear quarter windows and the rear hatch glass so you can have that open air look and actually the way they do the doors is a more pretty clever yes because you know on the Wrangler you know they've got a little
[SPEAKER_02]: tool set in the center console, you know, some Allen wrenches, you've got to use, you know, to take the doors anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, just open the doors past 90 degrees and lift them right off the hinge.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I'm saying, forget to unplug the harness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same with ring the light as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: 26 ring the lights on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, dude, they do that on the Wrangler to the storage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Innovation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they still mount the mirrors, the side mirrors on the door, so.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when you take off a horse smart they had the frameless doors and they left the mirrors attached to the body and that's a very easy to store the doors it is, but it's also if you're driving down a really narrow trail you may not want the mirrors on it all
[SPEAKER_03]: So they'll get you narrower.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'll be a stopper.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, scratch them up, but as the trails that narrow, there's a good chance you're going to pinstrap the paint anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a cheap thing, Sam.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I'm just staying on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this thing is built on the Stella Large Platform, which is the same platform as the Wagon of your ass.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Dodge Charger Detona.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh boy, good luck.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nicole had some, uh, had some thoughts on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's got the same 100.5 kilowatt hour battery pack, uh, but because it has the aerodynamic profile of, you know, basically a big block of wood, um, and, uh, a very large block of wood.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it sits higher than those other vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, the range is not great.
[SPEAKER_02]: six hundred fifty horsepower from the dual motors for you know at least for the the initial versions are launching uh... necessary and and zero sixty and three point six seconds for you know what is nominally an off-roader
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, not really necessary, and it goes about the MOAB, the MOAB trim which is new trim they're launching.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the off-road version.
[SPEAKER_02]: 230 miles on a charge for $65,000.
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is dead on arrival and mafraid.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if they didn't learn, it must be a case of sunk cost fallacy.
[SPEAKER_03]: They are probably so far along with the development of this vehicle.
[SPEAKER_03]: right that they have to bring it out at this point even though who's going to buy it for that price of that range like what was it for the mistakes started um we'll probably be for you
[SPEAKER_00]: But when, for those to get into the Jeep, I like what full of sets to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he's a smart guy, and I think him, of running over all everything, long-term is probably a good play.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what happened was, for those to came in, and he had a lot of stuff he needed to fix.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there were things that just got higher priority.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like Recon had to have been done for almost a year, because the Sam had said, I've been seeing them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but you know there was a lot of software quality issues that they were dressing with lagging your S which was supposed to come out first and then charge your charger had as well, you know, But then suddenly it got put it must have gotten pushed to the side because suddenly it's like, I don't know, we got to get Cherokee at the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, we got to get grand Cherokee at the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, we got to get this new way and make way again here out the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then it just became, you know, pushed back and pushed back and pushed back and every time I asked about it, they're like, oh yeah, we just had to get more important stuff out the door.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now it's too late.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it's too late.
[SPEAKER_00]: This should be a mid-cycle refresh of this product with this point and not the launch.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know who it's for.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did an interview with 80 seniors last week.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we ultimately ended up on, you should buy ref or you should buy a foreigner.
[SPEAKER_00]: because it's like, well, if you want this, why would you get all this crappy range when you could get a Wrangler or you could get a Bronco, but then, you know, you could sign in the kind of the trade-off with the Bronco and the Wrangler with Roof and the H and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this car has a luxury kind of focused interior.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's nice inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want it off, it's a little lower than the Wrangler for door.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so if you want something off,
[SPEAKER_02]: But the problem is, you know, it's only got 9.1 inches of ground clearance.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you said that Lucid that you just didn't have 9.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when you put it into his highest mode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That luxury minivan has as much ground clearance as this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is trail rated.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the Wrangler Rubicon is about 13 inches of ground clearance.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is trail rated, you know, which.
[SPEAKER_02]: At least, you know, nominally, you know, it's supposed, you know, for Jeep is supposed to mean that it's capable of doing the Rubicon Trail.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll see if it can actually do that or not, because I think it's a great way to do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wouldn't they, like, it was trail raided?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, the reticator, it's a reticator.
[SPEAKER_00]: Reticator, reticator version.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could probably, you could probably show me the camera at this point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they'll do a Camry Woodland edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't ask, but I'll say that too, I'll be.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to carry wood, but do it, I'll do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, the thing, the thing with this recon, you know, the recon Moab, you know, as riding on 33-inch wheels and tires.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, you could get an extra inch, an extra inch of ground clearance if you could put it on 35s.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I won't say that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You look at it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't look like you could fit 35s in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: When people asked Jeep about that, whether it was, whether it was, whether it was or if it would fit, they would not answer the question.
[SPEAKER_00]: They said, oh, this is not what you have to market for your audience understand, I'm sure they do already, but like, when you talk about like a proper off-roading Jeep,
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost always, somebody in the audience at the background will ask, we'll take 37's, we'll do 40's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you do 35 or 37's 40's?
[SPEAKER_00]: When they announced the J.O.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wrangler, first thing they said was like, look, it'll do 37's, no problem, we'll go out here, especially like 37's, no problem, you'd need a lift for 40's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, that has been sort of this mindset and this dedicated offer.
[SPEAKER_00]: They test the stuff, they'd like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They know the aftermarket is going to want it.
[SPEAKER_00]: These questions are going to need to be answered.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the first time on something that's supposedly as off-road capable in my time doing this job, where they would not answer that question.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that, I mean, that tells me like every, like I guess is that 35s will not fit on this time without without rubbing in the will walls.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's got independence suspension all around doesn't even have a solid rear axle.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, that's that's going to be a profit for 99% of the people that you sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's absolutely true, but yeah, but why is it not a Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_00]: but then who's it for her, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does have a lot of money on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't even care if they make money.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to know who it's for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's for an off-roader, somebody that goes camping or something on the weekends, but once kind of a nicer luxury kind of experience, what's wrong with a grand Cherokee, especially because they're still gonna do the trail hoc trails.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like those will get you the most campsites anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you want something serious,
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna buy a wringler.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, this does have an electronic locking rear differential.
[SPEAKER_02]: It does.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, they changed the final drive ratio from 11 to 1 on the grand-wagon or on the wagginger S to 15 to 1.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it doesn't have a proper low range, like you would get in a Wrangler, but it does, you know, it does have a significantly lower final drive ratio.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's part of why the range is so short, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And comforting.
[SPEAKER_00]: and offering a full bed is a fun experience because, you know, you're not dealing with a torque converter, you're not dealing with any of those sorts of kind of power train losses between your foot, the application of your foot and what that tire does on that rock.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so like what you can get that experience with the Wrangler for by, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I don't know, it's going to be interesting to see how many of these that can actually sell.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the numbers going to be pretty modest, especially the price, the range, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they could pull a charger and yeah throw an ice engine in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, install a large can do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they, in, in principle, yes, you know, when you look at this thing in profile though, you know, it's, if anything, it's going to have to be a transverse engine in the front because the hood is not as long as it is on a Wrangler, for example.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, Hurricane Straight 6 ain't going to fit.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're definitely not going to fill
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but what you could potentially do is the new, you know, put a force on or engine in there and do an e-read.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could do that too with a four cylinder or what they could do they just fit the straight six if they just put in one of those dog houses that they used to have on the conversion vans so that half of the soldiers can just be right in the center console then you could straight six maybe and have an easy time servicing the spark plugs yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, at Seema, they showed a charger, a drag race charger with, uh, with a hammy in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where there's a red necklace of why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think anything is possible if you want, if you want it bad enough, yeah, and you have money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but yeah, I just my at the end of the day, like I liked it when I saw the first time Sam was with you when we saw it in person, um, there in Auburn Hills.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I thought it was cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but that was before we knew the grand Cherokee refresh was coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's before we kind of knew exactly how rank how waging here was going to, you know, you know, come, you know, sort of things out.
[SPEAKER_02]: like it is kind of an also before we knew how problematic the weg in your ass is going to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and the charger has had similar problems.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the software defined part of their of their electric vehicles has not been delivering what it needs to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Software cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Software can be hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just keep those air vents mechanical and the door latches as well and you'll be miles ahead of a lot of automakers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Something else that made it's North American debut at the LA Auto Show this week.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is basically, you know, the five-an in a four-door body.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, with a few more tweaks to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: 641 horsepower simulated shifting, you know, all kinds of simulated engine noises.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've upgraded the simulated sound system from a two-channel set up to six-channel.
[SPEAKER_02]: So supposedly it sounds even better.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you're driving it,
[SPEAKER_00]: All the speakers for your fake engine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: That needs a Fratsonic chambered exhaust system.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so people on the outside can hear it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Muscle car and do is just say, I rise some more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like the Atlantic five.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like how the Atlantic six drives better has longer wheelbase than it's like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I adore the Atlantic five and my favorite, my favorite EV period so far.
[SPEAKER_00]: Side me up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm hooked.
[SPEAKER_02]: Give me give me give me give me when I first saw the five end in LA a couple of years ago You know, they were announcing it You know, I thought man, it sounds like such a gimmick Yeah, then I then I drove it and You know what who it was to drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was I I remember I remember I drove it to the Yeah, we're at the launch of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna say that at um
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll sort of run around the track down towards the hotel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I drove casually down to hell, and I turned around to come back up the hill and I put it in the end with the full chef thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I missed the first chef, missed the one to chef, the fake revelmeter, this fake revelmeter, and it threw me forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just started cackling like a maniacal person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was so...
[SPEAKER_00]: intellectually, I know what they're doing, but how they refined all of the artificialness, the feel real is incredible, because they're not just cutting power.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just a power cut, they're just in the dampers, and they're doing all of these little things, and they're adjusting the power delivery of the electric motor, so it feels more natural, it feels more linear,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fake, but it's like Star Trek holodec fake.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, it's, I, I'm just very convinced I'm able to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
[SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't, I, I would be willing to bet money.
[SPEAKER_00]: You put your plug, especially if you put your plugs in somebody, so they can't hear the fake engine noise, which I can tell is fake, but it doesn't sound super fake.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you put your plugs in, I'm they wouldn't know that it's not a real transwish.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they just went into a very convincing job of simulating and it's being dual clutch automatic and all the foibles, all the foibles of one too, like they made it, they made it, it, it behaves like in a lotter and yeah, but with they made the car better by making it worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And God bless him.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, 140 or the beauty of it is you, you can turn it on and off.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can drive around normally and then, you know, when you're on a twisting country road or you're doing a track day, you just flip it into N mode and it all comes to life.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And unlike Mercedes-Badden's who's now doing it, or we'll be doing it in their new AMG GT replays.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wrote in the prototype earlier this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: which also is really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they only allow that fake shifting and stuff in sport class or in S-plus.
[SPEAKER_00]: With the Onic 5 and presumably with the 6, you can do the fake shifting in normal mode.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it actually, it'll still power the liver the same way.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll feel like they're just driving a normal car.
[SPEAKER_00]: A normal gas power car.
[SPEAKER_00]: See, you can still have that experience if you want it.
[SPEAKER_00]: without having to be in full-on balls out, you know, and load.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I didn't care.
[SPEAKER_03]: I drove the end, the Fionic 5N, a couple years back.
[SPEAKER_03]: The one thing that I didn't care for was that sort of a BMW element to the vehicle, and that there are so many settings you get into the menu for the chassis and the breaking
[SPEAKER_03]: But I guess if you want to get it there and take around a great, but I don't see a lot of people using that necessarily.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to be like three seconds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these are like three settings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything in full attack mode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything in comfort, quiet, efficient mode.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then the journalist mode, which is everything in the suspension and everything in the soft comfortable mode, but the exhaust super loud.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was the three seconds such?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, one of the things that disappointed me about the Charger Daytona was, you know, it's got paddles on the steering wheel.
[SPEAKER_02]: and they could have done this and they could do an OTA software update to enable the same kind of thing but for whatever reason they chose not to and that would make so much sense in a car like that because they've never driven, they've never driven an AMIC 5-in I'm convinced nobody in Auburn Hills has driven one because the big problem with the charger is if you're going on the highway at 65 miles an hour, it's a fantastic cruiser
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it feels like the red, but if you have the FADZONIC trigger on, it feels like you're like 5 or 6,000 RPM.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it sounds like, like it sounds like it's sounds like it's literally droning.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you have region set to anything other than a little setting, it gives you a little too much engine breaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what it feels, air quotes engine breaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it feels like you need to shift the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it's a missing gear.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's super duper annoying unless you turn the FADZONIC and stuff off.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it's just a normal EV because you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an excellent cruiser.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it needs that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, Kineska's pre-chrom promised us, you know, oh, the band she's going to have this multi-speed gearbox and we're going to be able to live her on her head into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: In a mix of a way between, yeah, in a mix of a way between Porsche doesn't, in the way that like, Hyundai does it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, of course, that's dead.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so,
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate that we're using this hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate the music's whole podcast, the crap on Stoietas, but their EVF frames have just.
[SPEAKER_00]: The very, the, the, the, the first generation, it was so much potential there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're already in second and third.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like an electric charger should be bonkers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in a lot of ways, it was, um, you know, an electric power train makes a car feel more, more, more luxurious, like way I can hear us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that should be, you know, it should be the way to deliver there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just, it,
[SPEAKER_00]: like the software issues, um, yeah, and then you, and then you drive into something kind of something fun and like, yeah, and again, and you're just like, it's, it's night and day, it's, it's, it's like an ode to the out of five and is like an ode to auto enthusiast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if this, if this whole future is electric, this is, like, this is like the auto
[SPEAKER_00]: And I look forward to driving for seconds.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure it's a lot of quiet.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the other thing that Hyundai unveiled, which is actually a global debut,
[SPEAKER_02]: was a concept car or a concept vehicle called the crater, which, you know, what did you look at, when you look at this thing, you know, it doesn't have a grill.
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't talk anything about, you know, a power train, but I could I could imagine this thing using EGMP hardware and doing what Jeep wanted to do with the recon, but doing it right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: it looks like it has portal axles too because there's like in the renders at least there's no no suspension under there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't see anything in the middle of the of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It might you never know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a concept.
[SPEAKER_02]: So who knows?
[SPEAKER_00]: Anything I could do with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they've taken this whole, like, Hyundai has gone full pixel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, um, like, have really embraced it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I thought they were going to kind of embrace it, but they have really embraced it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they've carried a lot of that over two production vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the interior of this thing is, I don't know if it's good wild to me, but it is wild.
[SPEAKER_00]: with the pixelated displays in this idea of like, especially the driver mode selector and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is very retro future.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the 80s, but like the 80s we were promised.
[SPEAKER_00]: The future we were promised on the 80s.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if that's a good thing or not, but I kind of don't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the creator concept, the iatic 3, which was the concept 3 that they showed,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, or earlier this year, also had a moon vibe to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're really leaning into now the outer space and some of their concepts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why, just a trend that I'm kind of noticing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you take, that's like,
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, hundreds of, gradually easing into the off-road thing with their XRT trams.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And which are, you know, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the, on the
[SPEAKER_02]: I would not be the least bit surprised if they build a production version of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously not with the suicide doors, but you know, I can see them taking on cheap cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, is that correct?
[SPEAKER_03]: They should because it would be so cool to have something different and still functional.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, our friend, Mr. Jared Rosenhold over at Carbuzz, I mean, his kind of his headline on this is like, XRT and N can work together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I know that some of the N people worked on this concept.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like if you want,
[SPEAKER_00]: a real kind of like, I mean, not a set out raptor competitor, but like, you know, something to really go after, like hardcore for whatever it is, or the Bronco kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think there's room for competition from the Koreans in that segment, because if they come in the way that they have in the other segments,
[SPEAKER_00]: They take the sport and sport and jeep will be in big trouble if yeah, yeah, and then I'm not I'm not Korean Pilled here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't sound like it was what's my love in the out of five and but like there are
[SPEAKER_00]: The domestic automakers have really been type-rested on their laurels on those sorts of products.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a 10-year product cycle on Wrangler, which looks like it's probably going to be about the case now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So next year, we'll probably start seeing some concepts.
[SPEAKER_00]: for whatever it is the jam or whatever they're going to end up calling it, um, you know, Broncos, I mean, it's closing in sales.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is that wrangler?
[SPEAKER_00]: But both of those products are really expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been part of the Wrangler's problem as if how much of a thing thing costs.
[SPEAKER_03]: Look at both sides, they're absolutely insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you could get something like, it will look like this concept.
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like if you could get something,
[SPEAKER_00]: RAF 4 for runner is style, for runner is kind of big now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, you know, a Santa Fe kind of sized or whatever, that's really kind of like a Bronco sport but more Bronco-E. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they'd be in trouble.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, it'll be interesting to see them build something like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, so,
[SPEAKER_02]: see what we got next.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, let's go with Honda Prelude pricing.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I got to drive the Prelude a few weeks ago in Japan, and Prelude.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they've now officially announced the pricing for the US $43,195 delivered, which is not cheap, but, you know, it kind of falls midway between civic hybrid sport touring and a type R, you know, and it's got, that's about how much old expected for a car like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, yeah, that's what I was figuring, you know, the
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it would, I would prefer it to be cheaper, but, you know, it does have all the type R suspension and brakes, it's got the S plus shifting stuff, you know, it's, it's actually surprising amount of fun to drive, you know, and one of the things that, you know, that, as soon as they announced that they were putting the type R suspension and brakes on there, I figured, oh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, at some point, they've got to build a prelude type R. Just drop the turbo, two liter in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, Honda has been avoiding that question.
[SPEAKER_02]: They prefer not to talk about that question.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just like 30, I have something that reconned.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, and we might as well address a listener comment that actually came in on our discord, I wish.
[SPEAKER_02]: which is an interesting thing here, Jeff Dee in the Discord said, whenever I think of Accur in Tegra, I almost think of the OG 3Dore in Tegra from the mid to late 80s, as opposed to the 5Dore that we have today.
[SPEAKER_02]: And says, y'all almost bought one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Got an Asuzu Impulse Turbo instead.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would be really cool if Accur made a 3Dore in Tegra based on the prelude.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that actually would be really interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know take take the print you know because the prelude is a shorter wheel base than the than the civic you know basically you know re-skin that and you know you've already got all the good suspension break bits from the integrity type s and just put the integrity type s power train in there you know which is the type the civic type r you know and you know then
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so make that a three-door integret.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think about that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's here's here's so
[SPEAKER_00]: I like this idea, and I would almost argue that this is how the car should have come.
[SPEAKER_00]: It shouldn't have been a prelude.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also will admit that I think the prelude is a car designed because I actually done my sensibilities, which means it's probably not for a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate that they built the prelude because they cared, and not because it makes sense on a balance sheet.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I've always liked when Honda has done that, I had an S2000.
[SPEAKER_00]: That'd be no sense at all, financially.
[SPEAKER_00]: but still one of the best guys ever driven.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I like that part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The prelude was always the two door, according.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now it's the Tudor Civic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, cars have gotten bigger.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that makes kind of more sense there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But praliers are really weird sell.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you're right, it is three grand foreground away from a type R. If you can find a type R, it's thicker, which you can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Though I did see a $65,000 prelude over the weekend, because with the dealer markup and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: So excuse me.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I, I prelude.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, you already saw it in the dealer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I saw something in it, but yeah, I was 10 grand and 10 grand in the market.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's fast nuts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I like to play a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would not pay that kind of money for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: $400 for a screen protector for the infotainment screen, um, get the $300 to fill $300 to fill the entire tires with nitrogen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was total rip off city, um, but I think that you maybe wouldn't have gotten the entire type as if the prelude would have been, if the
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the privilege is trying to be a premium product and I think it'd fit better with an accurate badge I mean, I know that doesn't have power just to see it's stuff like that, but add those Add a couple of crayons to the price if you need to slap an accurate badge on it and I think you're
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that makes a little bit more sense than it does with a Honda badge.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the Tigre Type S is $53,400.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, you were selling it by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're North America, I'm like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, if you could do, you know, and the Tigre, you know, an Acura Pralood Type S, you know, for, you know, under 50 grand,
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that, you know, that would sell a lot better, I think than a pro-lude.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe the Type S is 55 grand for the Integra, that's just his saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That puts some differentiation.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, that puts in, like, a puts in two, three, five eye.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, I think it's probably a lot more reliable than a BMW.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, yeah, same with whatever, whatever, you know, Mercedes or whatever, offering, but, you know, and they drive well for what was our colors, um, things like that, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: But 55 grand and that's just the starting price right without me.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's with delivery of course Yeah, I think it would be good if you had to pay that anyway, but yeah But the one there's a paint color.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the only real cost on a Is the paint color on the integral yeah, it was pretty much standard on there
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's, but a two or a coup, I mean, you know, to your to your discord comment, like nobody buys those, like I would.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and Honda doesn't expect to sell a whole lot of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but because, you know, it's sharing, you know, so many parts with, you know, the civic, you know, and other Honda vehicles, you know, other vehicles are on that same platform.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the actual cost, you know, to produce this, you know, there's not a lot of unique stuff to this, you know, they can, they can do it and that's, you know, I mean, that's why it's $43,000 for the, for the prelude, you know, because there is some cost, but it's not, you know, it's not like they're developing a completely unique platform.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so I don't think that they would offer a two-door and a four-door integrity that has different just what I think they would be if they did it with the stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my question for you, Sam, since you've driven it, is, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: is it a more expensive fancier more fun to drive civic hybrid or is it a detuned or more fuel efficient civic type R?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's both of those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know because it has the driving dynamics of a civic type R because it's got that suspension, you can you can you know going into a corner you can trail break it and you know bring that back end around really nicely you know balance it perfectly you know and at the same time you've got you know that you've got that civic hybrid power train in there which is really really good
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, you've got, you know, we talked about with the Ionic 5N, the Ionic 6N, you know, you've got that fake shifting, the simulated shifting and the engine sounds and everything, you know, and as with the Hyundai, you know, it feels very authentic.
[SPEAKER_02]: and a big part of the reason why why they're able to do that is because of the way the Honda hybrid system works, which is in a lot of ways quite different from the Toyota hybrid system, you know, because it is predominantly electric drive, you know, it's more serious hybrid than parallel hybrid most of the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it, you know, that, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: the vast majority of driving conditions, even when you're driving quickly on a track, because you've got a 181 horsepower from the primary electric motor out of 200 total.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got a mount.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so you're getting most of the electric drive, so that gives them the freedom to actually manage the engine revs and make it feel like, you know, you know, actually have it cycling up and down as you're shifting and also do the torque management of the electric motor, you know, so you get that little, you know, slight drop in propulsion as it's doing the shifts.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it has that same very authentic feel that the, that the Hyundai's have.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it does not sort of like the old insight, because with the old insight, like the edge of it would just be rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer, rarer,
[SPEAKER_00]: sort of independent of efficiency for the purpose of, yeah, when you put it in, it's a similar thing as plus mode, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's managing the engine based on things like your speed, your lateral acceleration, your yaw rate, so using all of those inertial motions sensor signals to
[SPEAKER_02]: to replicate what the engine would be doing if you're driving just a pure internal combustion vehicle and shifting it manually.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's way more sophisticated than let's say a CVTU with fake shifts.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I want to drive it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking forward to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I guess that I think it might be a kind of designed for me in a lot of ways, but
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I also, you know, I don't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to price came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of people that said this product was going to be DOA and Recon.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not, it's not, it's not there.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think this will be a lot more appealing than the Recon.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, it's not inexpensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, when you look at it, the context of what else is out there, and you compare it to the,
[SPEAKER_02]: The Civic Hybrid and the Type R, you know, it's right in between those, you know, so you've got, you've got kind of the best of both worlds and a different, different design, a two-door form factor.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's got, you know, it's kind of in a unique place and there's nothing else quite like it in the market, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because I think it doesn't make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: like I think it makes sense for like what they're trying to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, but I don't think it makes sense to a bean counter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And well, I think I don't think Honda would do it if it didn't it didn't make financial sense for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think they they understand the kinds of volumes that you're going to get with this, which is probably no more than 10 or 15,000 units a year
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, after the first year, it'll probably drop off a bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if they made it a Kraylude SUV, then they could sell 50,000 of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: or prelude SI and put the civic type origin or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, I think there's ways to go with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do feel like this was a car that they could build because they can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, wait, it's not necessarily SI.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've been seeing it as C. C, it was a Spanish C model.
[SPEAKER_00]: C Craig, C. I'm seeing it wrong this whole time.
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's saying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't get any out.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: See.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's carry on.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Porsche Cayenne Electric.
[SPEAKER_02]: They appreciate your courtesy laughter, by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: That terrible joke.
[SPEAKER_02]: the the the the cayenne electric is now officially out that's here yeah yeah hundred and eleven thousand dollars uh hundred and thirteen kilowatt hour battery eleven hundred and thirty nine horsepower in the the turbo uh yeah four four hundred kilowatt charging uh ten to eighty percent in the less than sixteen minutes if you can find a charger that actually works you know that fast
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I, I honestly got 400 kilowatt chargers, they, they do, they do, and they're pretty reliable from what I've used, so, um, you know, if you're too lazy to plug in when you pull into your garage, they also offer a wireless charging system for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do, which this is the first like mainstream application in North America, I believe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, BMW did a pilot, they sold a limited number of five series plug-in hybrids, some years back.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was, um, Genesis when they launched the GV60 in Korea.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was available, I don't know if it's still is, but it was available at the time with the wireless charging system.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because our friends at my friends at telemetry made a connection to electricity
[SPEAKER_00]: The disclosure, disclosure alert.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know people are telemetry.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, to Sam oddly enough, I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: One of his paychecks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, I know Sam.
[SPEAKER_00]: Disclose, full disclosure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just Sam outside of this podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, what do you guys think of the styling of this thing to like, I think it's pretty sharp.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, my soul looks like it's yours.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really want to try that interior folded screen thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's probably going to be silly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's probably going to be silly, but I still want to try it to see.
[SPEAKER_03]: If it's a thing here, I don't think automakers realize.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're so eager to go all in on screens everywhere, but I don't think they realize how dated and tacky that's going to look in like 10 years.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like why does this portion need so many displays?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like you don't, you don't need that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody's asking for a climate control display.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like literally nobody.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even think passengers need to display, honestly, because they've got
[SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like I'm in JJ, I feel like I'm in JJ Abrams and Star Trek universe though when I'm in something where's all the curve displays and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not the original series, which had all of the tactile buttons and discs and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that JJ Abrams reboot, let's flare and oblique.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of the vibe that I get.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Portia's bigger problem is they're having a real hard time selling EVs.
[SPEAKER_03]: At least in North America.
[SPEAKER_03]: Number one is not selling as well, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're very good EVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, actually the Macon about one third of Macon sales now are EVs Even in the U.S. Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what good for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what he said.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's about one third EVs now Hi cow
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I want to drive your for your portions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can thanks.
[SPEAKER_02]: The the base Kyana electric makes do with a mere 402 horsepower.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, the turbo, you're fast to walk 1139 with with the launch control.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something like cow wants to tell me something like 99% of Porsche buyers.
[SPEAKER_00]: have a, the ability to, a garage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, a workplace for charging.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I mean, charging, they're more comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Customers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so the whole qualifications that we talked about earlier for, for plug and hybrid stuff like that, like, those, those are typically solved here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, you know, I'm like a 9 11 turbo S customer living in their car.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're between jobs or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just such an advantage.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, um, but I think that like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand why more really rich people don't buy EVs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they're still better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless you're buying a collectible or a fun car, a weekend car kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're thinking to take your kids back and forth the private school, give me a client electric to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be excellent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there'll probably be excellent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say give me an Audi, but I don't think there's a single Audi I like right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I mean, the Q6E Tron is built on the same PPE architecture, so, you know, if you, if you like this one, you know, the Q6 is going to be pretty similar, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it just thinks not about the, uh, the wireless charging system, the, uh, the transmitter pad that goes on the floor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything for that is actually contained within that pad.
[SPEAKER_02]: So all you have coming off of that is a cord that you plug in everything out, there's no wallbox required for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all contained within that pad.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're just finding your 1450 outlet, plug it in.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or does it get hardwired?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I would imagine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you can, I think you can hardwire it, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, I mean, I don't want to say that's like a game changer, because it's on a car here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in not that many people are going to buy it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm like the idea of wireless charging.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even before I had a real good demo of it, but then, you know, Craig, we did a lot of stuff with electricity and like a lot of it made sense to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think, you know, one of the big challenges with the wireless charging still has been the cost, you know, I did a research project with a company, probably seven or six or seven years ago now that was working on a wireless charging system, you know, we did.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did some costing analysis for them, and at that time, even in volume, it was still going to cost somewhere around three to $4,000 for all the components, the bill materials, and assembly cost.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I believe that for the cayenne, the system for the cayenne, I think is like an $8,000 option.
[SPEAKER_02]: which is kind of nuts, but you know, if you're spending a lot of money as a kian is going to cost.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that doesn't you get that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's either get that or get, um, leather wrapped some visors.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the same price shoes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Get red painted little chicklets on the air vents.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's $4,000 or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if there's there's one thing to Porsche has learned over the years, it's how to separate customers from their money.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're very good at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're very, very good at that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: What color did you want us to match for that piece of leather on the shift knob?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I match it?
[SPEAKER_02]: They color you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can absolutely do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can can that hide whatever color you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of like, I mean, I kind of like the bespoke stuff, though, like when the world's rice does weird stuff, though they're gamer, I think this past week was kind of weird, but that's not on the right now, but I think the, the one thing that Porsche understands that I don't think a lot of automakers do is,
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll take your money.
[SPEAKER_00]: They want your money.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, well, why don't we ever say these understand that pretty well?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, yeah, but like, there's been times where you're just like, oh, why don't you offer this feature?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is this feature only like this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are you making it so hard for me to give you money?
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't put barriers that between,
[SPEAKER_00]: giving me your money.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there's some manufacturing and I think stuff like that, but like it should not be difficult for me to give you more money if I want to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some automakers find ways to put barriers that they just doesn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, one of the things with some of the roles Royce, you can imagine them.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have that, I forget what it's officially called, but they've got the fiber optic system in the headliner, shows the night sky, so you've got all stars.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the things that they will do for customers, if they ask, is they will find the sky map of...
[SPEAKER_02]: any day in history like you know the day you were born anyway day you were married day anyway from any location and they will they will arrange those little points of light to match the sky on on any day in location.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you when you proposed to your wife and you pointed out that particular star in the sky when you were laying outside, you can have that recreated in your role's rights now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, is it silly?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it cool?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does it take money out if you have a has a gun in dollars to spend on a role's rights?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Who cares if it's silly?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_00]: They just have a group of people that just sit around and make stuff up and charge for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's clever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but like there's a time you always have to have a vote so I can just a little bit more briefly with the whole Audi Porsche thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you used to be able to get it golf are in like 20 different colors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you had to pay three grand for it because they had to pull it from the line and go send it over to a different, like one of the Porsche lines to finish the main.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even on nostalgic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Genesis.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk Genesis.
[SPEAKER_00]: Genesis.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talking like.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's start with the magma gc.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, let's start with the gv60 magma.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so you don't want to start like in the beginning God created heaven the earth Genesis?
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, no, the Genesis is part of one.
[SPEAKER_00]: The most of the group.
[SPEAKER_00]: No wrath of congenesis.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get a free John of the source.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him, not to call him
[SPEAKER_02]: So their new endurance race course car race team is Genesis Magna Racing, they're launching Magma versions of their production models starting with the GV60 Magma, which was also in LA.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is basically an Aionic 5N in Genesis clothing and bright orange paint.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, same 641 horsepower and all the other goodies but with you know Genesis styling and orange paint.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do expect it to be a little bit more tame than the 5N in terms of like that kind of raw edge kind of thing because I feel like a Genesis buyer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's probably a little too quote I'm quote mature for the same five ends who we can miss that's sort of what I've been told from people who still work there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah not to give away any because I've seen somebody use to work there as we all talked about earlier, but um I think it's going to be maybe a little bit more adult than that, but I still think it's going to be silly and it's a orange it's freaking
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_03]: It reminds me of molten rock, but only if it's like all the surface.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, some magma perhaps is what you say perhaps.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was going to say lava, but then no, I think it's more of a magma.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like a magma.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a cool name for a reason for a performance brand, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we saw, I'm a GV60 magma concept a year or so.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, um, they didn't have a couple of magma concepts.
[SPEAKER_02]: They did a G80 magma as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm sure that over the next couple of years, we'll be seeing magma variants of probably most of the the Genesis lineup as they start the race program next year.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're out testing right now with the GMR 001 and that's going to start competing
[SPEAKER_02]: at the first World New Jersey Championship race of 2026.
[SPEAKER_00]: So actually the orange actually reminds me a lot of the orange that was on the AMG GCXX concept, but speaking of like that, for the first time in my career I
[SPEAKER_00]: like that place is just like it's so focused around but the racing aspect of Mercedes bands as well as as the high-performance street car kind of stuff and like like it's just it's such a thing and if Genesis can tap into like that thing they're just kind of I mean I don't say they're going to print money but they're going to
[SPEAKER_00]: they're going to open up themselves to customers that they haven't had before and they're going to be able to increase margins and they're going to just be able to, but I think they can really compete with the best from BMW M and from Mercedes AMG.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've got the resources to do it and I think they've got the will to do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they have our ad Albert Beerman.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I did.
[SPEAKER_02]: So shifting over to France to Castellet and the Paul Ricard race track, which is where the Genesis Magna Racing team is based, they had, I guess they had an event over there this week, where they showed off the Genesis Magna GT concept, a mid-engine sports car, V8 powered,
[SPEAKER_02]: also very orange.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think of this one?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: It looks fantastic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like a scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a C8 Corvette in a way, but much smoother and more rounded.
[SPEAKER_03]: It does come in most of the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: In some ways, it does remind me again of that AMG GTX X comes up, but I think that's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think wind tunnels, you know, I think it's better, things better than the AMG.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a better, yeah, yeah, it's the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, same, um, I don't know, it looks exotic.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks sporty, it looks fun, it looks sleek.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I was initially a big fan of this idea of Genesis looking at the Germans and saying, that's what I want to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they have an opportunity to carve out
[SPEAKER_00]: is entirely different part of the segment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still think that they could, if they wanted to, but if they're going to embrace Zee Germans, they're doing it the right way.
[SPEAKER_03]: When they initially announced the magma products, it was, I think, at the New York Auto show a couple years back, that they were not calling magma a subbrand.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you guys know if that is changed?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I asked them specifically, and they're like, no, no, these are more,
[SPEAKER_03]: Special line of vehicles or something to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't think that's like a subbrand, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's it's all you know six of my half dozen of the other.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't really matter You know if you call it a subbrand or not, you know, it's a
[SPEAKER_02]: In a way, you know, it's they're going to have separate models like this GT, you know, it does make it sort of a subbrand of Genesis, you know, which in and of itself is already, you know, started off as a subbrand of Hyundai, you know, so, you know, who knows.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I would be surprised if they don't build a car like this in the next few years, especially, you know, like I said now that they're going into the hypercar class in whack, with that race car, I think that they probably also want to compete in the GT3 class, and this would be a perfect product for them to base a GT3 race car on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and, and Hyundai, the Hyundai Motor Group is so aggressive anyway, they have no fear of tackling new segments, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So for them to push into this hypercar, whatever you want to call it, Luxury Space, I would not be surprised at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they have, I mean, they have the money and resources to do it because they're so vertically integrated everywhere else.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a Hyundai car comes off the line and besan is immediately loaded onto a boat that is Hyundai right on the side of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Made at a Hyundai shipyard from Hyundai steel.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's Hyundai power.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they grew to real power literally everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the entire South Korean country.
[SPEAKER_02]: So basically, that wasn't the only vehicle that Genesis showed off in France.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... they showed something called the gene g90 wingback
[SPEAKER_02]: anything but all at a wagon right yeah so the G90 for those who have forgotten is current Hyundai's current flagship big luxury sedan and this is a wagon that is based on that platform but you know the styling has evolved I love this I love this car
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna say something controversial.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's ugly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: The back end has a black head on top.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fine with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it looks like the, it's look like somebody said, hey, design the back end and they just didn't stop.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a weirdness to the roof line, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I know I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm fine with being wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I mean, I'm a wagon person.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I love this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so no, so am I. I totally, I,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm tired of concepts, let's say I'm especially from like Genesis, like they do some production stuff, but man they love doing, they'd love doing concepts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is one of those Genesis X, whatever things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's probably more likely to make production, but like just say you're going to build the darn car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they are going to build this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It will probably never be sold in North America because, you know, it's a wagon and, you know, we can't have nice things, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that, you know, I think that this will be sold in Europe and Asia, and I would just, I would love to have it here, but we probably never get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead, we'll get
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like the we talked about the Ford Flex earlier.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wish Ford would bring that back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, a lower refursion on the rear drive, whatever it is, CD6 architecture like the Explorer, a V8er.
[SPEAKER_03]: Push the roof down a little bit, get rid of some of the off-road capability, add some more style, like you had with the original Flex.
[SPEAKER_03]: It'd be a fantastic product.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a friend that has two fluxes in his garage, one for him and one for his wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all in the flesh.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're several of them in my neighborhood, still.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they haven't made that thing in years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been in five years.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a pretty good option.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I I like the way I can concept I think that if we're going to start talking more about fuel efficiency, especially like EV efficiency and things like that, I think wagons Kind of become much more of a viable kind of product offering.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, but we can't for several.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no appetite in the United States for a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think some of it is because the American customer is just different.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're some that's determined so much by automakers of what kind of profit margin they want.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Ford only wants to build that one for F-series trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this car would be a big ask in the US, because you're asking somebody to buy a Genesis, which is already a big ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're offering a body style that only kind of in these these are really gonna want.
[SPEAKER_00]: How many Genesis and these these are there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Not that many, I don't know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think people forget about wagons and it's very generational people hated minivans and then because they grew up in a minivan and I think the next generation of kids is probably going to have a I say kids but drivers are going to have a distaste for SUVs perhaps because that's their family had what they grew up on, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe there's an opportunity for a wagon resurgence in the US.
[SPEAKER_00]: bigger heavy vehicles, just kill more people.
[SPEAKER_00]: They kill more pedestrians.
[SPEAKER_00]: They, you know, you can't see out of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't see.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't see out of them at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just this this problem that we keep having.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think as especially a city of start to focus more on it, okay, how do we protect bicycles and cycle, you know, cyclists and pedestrians and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think
[SPEAKER_00]: SV's start to really kind of fall out of favor, um, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't we'll see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: One, one last item for today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, you remember Ballinger Motors?
[SPEAKER_02]: They're still around.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sort of.
[SPEAKER_02]: They got they got bought a couple of years back by a company called Mullin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, they're still and cut sort of.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they, you know, they largely abandoned the electric pickup truck and SUV that they showed, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty sure that there were only ever the two examples that they built.
[SPEAKER_02]: One pick up one SUV.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty sure that there was never a second of either one of those ever built.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was kind of a unique design, you know, very boxy, it had a full pass through from the bed all the way through the cab, you know, into the front trunk for long items,
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, a lot of people got really excited by this thing, but they never raised the money to be able to build it, but they had also developed a medium duty electric medium duty truck chassis, which is what Mullen was trying to get to production.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well,
[SPEAKER_02]: Apparently, according to the Detroit Free Press, the company has stopped paying its bills and employees are saying that they haven't been paid in weeks.
[SPEAKER_02]: The COO sounded email to employees and the late October explaining that they were unable to make payroll, so that's almost a month ago now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Follow what happens to be a little bit later indicated the problem had still not been resolved meaning employees have now gone unpaid for more than six weeks And they've also stopped paying there there's suppliers and vendors and stuff So my guess is that Mollon is our volunteers probably going to be Finally done for good Is anyone surprised?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean no
[SPEAKER_00]: No, so before the Mullen acquisition, I was doing a lot of work with the truck trend, and all of our friends, and assuming all of our friends, Ms. Valentine was representing Bollenshire, I won't say her last name on here, but she was reputable in her agency.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she put me in front of Mr. Bollenshire several times for interviews, and
[SPEAKER_00]: He never really had a lot of great answers to like certain questions, like I think the vehicle, the truck and the SCVA, I think they were interesting, you know, we're going to the moon retro sci-fi kind of way.
[SPEAKER_00]: but they also really kind of lapped of any sort of design cohesiveness, things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were really leaning kind of on maybe an old school land or an old school land recruiter, but like an old school defender, we have a range of land and we're a defender kind of vibe, which is now kind of filled a bit by in use, though,
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard they've been having a little problems too, perfect, I potentially, but like it just, it was just like who's this for where it wasn't set by anything else, like who, you know, that wasn't, the questions were being answered by other automakers already in that kind of EV space.
[SPEAKER_00]: to pivot the moment pivot to commercial, I think makes a lot of sense because I think electrification in commercial makes a lot of sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if some of the people have pulled back from it, I've just seen so much good stuff and I've talked to enough people that a lot of the apprehension of switching to EVs in commercial trucking and things like that is less about what the service money or what the service maintenance, the apprehension is still that all EVs are woke
[SPEAKER_00]: if you get over that hurdle, I think there's a lot of things that make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: And looking at the drive article that you shared in the rundown that kind of broke down the Mullen truck, like, you know, it was using Dana for axles, which I think is a good idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, any, which I think is still a great concept of a company even though they
[SPEAKER_00]: fire their CV CEO and bother CEO back and that like a concept of a plan it's a concept of Yeah, yeah, but like it was it but like I liked what they're doing and they've been having trouble and it's just so It it's mainstream automakers Figure it out
[SPEAKER_00]: What hope do you can have as a start-up?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's a very different instrument to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not bowed well for for slate either, you know, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, they have slates.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have some money though.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have based those money.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, but I'm based those money.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think they also have the wrong form factor for their vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I like, I think there's, again, like the prelude.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for the right customer, I just don't think there's a lot of right customers and in the case of like a prelude, sure Honda doesn't need to make a bunch of cars because they make serious and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just explained to one of our GM friends recently saying I'm going around that trip to New York.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think Slate, like if GM would introduce a Slate kind of vehicle,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that could do reasonably well for them, because they don't need to bet the entire company on one product.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bolanger had to bet his entire company on this one or two products that aren't necessarily built for a large audience, and the slate customers also, not the total addressable market of a slate customer, is pretty small.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't, I don't know how you make a car company work off of a brand or a sub brand?
[SPEAKER_03]: maybe they never intended to succeed perhaps it was just a cash grab in the son's super cynical perhaps it's just a cash grab when you know government subsidies are being offered it's a way to get money I don't know for not saying it's a volunteer for both for for any any like startup niche EV maker I think
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I even have like, I'm much more optimistic about Scout, but I still have questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, one of our colleagues has said like, she's like, well, what happens after what else can they offer?
[SPEAKER_00]: They can offer a truck from MSCV and they can offer in larger sizes and smaller sizes and like, that's kind of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is that enough to sustain?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you can't have a Scout sit-in, you know, not that sit-in's are popular enough, but like,
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the, what's the, and I'll back, you know, an upback style wagon, yeah, yeah, I mean, can you, I mean, maybe you can do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I think scouts and a much better place.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, scouts is, you know, part of the VW group.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, there's already some, well, I mean, they're 100% owned by Volkswagen AG.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're part of the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're not Volkswagen, but they're not Volkswagen.
[SPEAKER_00]: G, that.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they are an independent entity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just happen to have gotten all of their money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's owned by Volkswagen AG.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it's a separate business on their site, though.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not on the website as an owned by it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just putting here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the principal purposes, they are owned by Volkswagen AG, just like Electrify America is owned by Volkswagen AG.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a separate business unit, but, you know, so it's technically a separate business entity.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a separate company, but 100% of the shares are owned by Volkswagen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it is technically part of the company, and so, you know, in that case, you know, they are going to be using components from other Volkswagen group units, like the range extender engines are going to come from the Volkswagen group, their EE architecture is going to come from the Volkswagen Rivian joint venture and the software platform is coming from there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, there were some recent reports that Audi is looking to build an SUV of their own based on the scout platform.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I think that they're more part of the group than they are at.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I think so, that's how it's there, but, you know, it does, but, you know, from, you know, for a long time, I've actually been
[SPEAKER_02]: skeptical of the prospects for scout because as you said, okay, once you've done the pick up and the SUV, then where do you go from there?
[SPEAKER_02]: And how many of those are they really going to sell?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, especially given what we now know about the market for electric large pickup trucks, you know, which is a lot smaller than people thought it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I think it's, you know, they're going to have a tough time, you know, a couple years ago I was on all the line after hours with John McElroy, you know, and I think you know, it was asked, you know, what I thought about prospects for Scott and I, you know, I gave it, at that time I gave it a 50-50 chance of ever getting to production.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not sure that it's much better than that now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I would probably give a closer to 60 or 70, I think, maybe because I'm just being a little optimistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think most of their volume will be in
[SPEAKER_00]: they need to get the SCV right, I mean, they need to get both right, but I think the SCV is definitely something they need to get right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we still don't know what the brain just ended and just going to be, it's probably going to be some version of that E88, E88, E88, E81.
[SPEAKER_00]: But something like 90% there was a number that came out that said we're ordered as the E-REV.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, everybody's 5% but yeah, that's the vast majority.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like that's both a good at a bad side.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a good sign because they know how many engines they need, but it's like a bad sign for like the long term kind of plans of like scout.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I like that scouts thumb and they move to Volkswagen dealers because dealers are, can be problematic sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: They might not be the best partners, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just in case you have any dealers or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you guys aren't the best partners to do out of make sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: You mean a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or a 10-point job or
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's bad apples out there and you know, I kind of see why I can kind of see why scouts like yeah, EVs deal with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not like EVs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's figure this out, you know, in a separate sort of way.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like if you're 50% on scouts, you've got to be like, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: 30% on slate?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think I like the idea of what Slate wants to do and I would be much more positive on them if they had chosen a different form factor.
[SPEAKER_02]: They had done a four door crew cab pickup, then I would have been much more positive on their prospects.
[SPEAKER_02]: But with a two-door, I just don't see it selling, be on, except for fleets.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of fleets that they'd buy forward Mavericks, because they're cheap, simple, good delivery vehicles, and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not see, and I think that's the same customer for the slate, for some local deliveries, things like that, delivering auto parts.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're going to find out.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a very small niche of consumers that want to vehicle like that, but it's a small, small niche.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are going to find out that if a car company had an idea based entirely on the internet comment section, can that be successful?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, because you go into the comments section.
[SPEAKER_00]: I covered, I mean, before Craig and I worked a lot on TV, it's like, I've spent a lot of time talking about trucks and the comments were non-stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want something basic in me, a two-door basic, whatever, like, just that's what I want.
[SPEAKER_00]: The trucks are too expensive.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can go buy a regular cam truck now and nobody does.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I think there's some self-fulfilling profile prophecy there with what dealer's stock and what manufacturers should deal with.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if you wanted one, you can get one.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll get the order.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it probably.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that's, but I think that, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Slates gonna be, they're using somebody else to use his bases.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is money, thank goodness.
[SPEAKER_00]: To answer this question, but this is an internet design track.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is bare bones, basic, cheap, intentionally cheap.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll probably feel cheap.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people want less expensive vehicles, but I don't think many of them want to feel like.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're poor, but I don't think you would be reminded that you're poor when you drive your car, not just anything wrong with being poor, I'm poor, but like there's there's what and I think that stuff that I've seen from the Slate so far has been
[SPEAKER_00]: cheap for the sake of being, like, really cheap, like, creaking doors and fit and finish, and stuff like, they're gonna have to get that, even if the cars cheap, they're gonna have to get stuff like that, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know we're still a ways away yet from potentially seeing the production car, but, uh, the total adjustable market,
[SPEAKER_00]: tiny now because I think a four door I think a four road made potentially more sense I think that you know I think this choices they've made.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if it's $30,000 as an EV without incentives that you can get an Easton leaf and it's so good and the leaf got 300 miles of range and it's a it is a really good vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean people are getting out of the 260 mile version.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're getting 300 miles out of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so like the 30 grand one That's we'll probably closer to 320 330 on range like
[SPEAKER_00]: It's five.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it has a hatch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you, gentlemen, for joining me today and filling you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Always good to talk to you guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll talk to everybody next time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: See ya.