WEBVTT 00:07.085 --> 00:08.708 [SPEAKER_03]: and welcome to our show. 00:09.008 --> 00:11.333 [SPEAKER_03]: The shit no one tells you about writing. 00:12.074 --> 00:21.010 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm best selling author Bianca Marie, and I'm joined by CC Lira of Wendy Sherman Associates and Carly Waters of PS Literary. 00:23.032 --> 00:38.312 [SPEAKER_03]: one, it's my huge, huge pleasure today to be joined by Patricia Sands, who is one of my favorite people who is an excellent literary citizen and a brilliant writer, and it's been over due that we have you on the show Patricia, so welcome. 00:39.313 --> 00:40.575 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, thank you, Beyond Curve. 00:40.595 --> 00:42.537 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that made me feel very good. 00:42.838 --> 00:44.179 [SPEAKER_02]: What a way to start the morning. 00:44.960 --> 00:46.322 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a pleasure to be here. 00:46.893 --> 00:49.841 [SPEAKER_03]: your bio is so impressive at so long. 00:49.881 --> 01:00.109 [SPEAKER_03]: Can you just tell us a tiny bit about yourself and then we're going to dive into your extraordinary story in terms of publication, which I know our listeners are going to love. 01:00.595 --> 01:01.076 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 01:01.276 --> 01:02.158 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me see. 01:02.178 --> 01:04.863 [SPEAKER_02]: I lived in Toronto for most of my life. 01:05.384 --> 01:10.553 [SPEAKER_02]: Also had a fairly nomadic existence with my second husband. 01:10.593 --> 01:11.896 [SPEAKER_02]: I was widowed when I was 43. 01:12.216 --> 01:14.280 [SPEAKER_02]: I went back to university and became a teacher. 01:14.841 --> 01:19.730 [SPEAKER_02]: Top for a little while remarried, started traveling a lot with my husband. 01:20.211 --> 01:23.717 [SPEAKER_02]: We also, I went from having two children to having seven children. 01:24.153 --> 01:26.236 [SPEAKER_02]: and so we're a large blended family. 01:26.516 --> 01:31.063 [SPEAKER_02]: But I started writing at 65 just really kind of by accident. 01:31.644 --> 01:33.887 [SPEAKER_02]: I write like I talk and I talk a lot. 01:34.488 --> 01:36.831 [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe that's why I started writing. 01:37.552 --> 01:40.536 [SPEAKER_02]: So my first novel was the Bridge Club. 01:40.556 --> 01:48.267 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was about my real life Bridge Club, eight women, and our friendship from the time we were in our late teens early 20s into our 70s. 01:49.189 --> 01:51.272 [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't even intend to publish it. 01:51.312 --> 01:53.535 [SPEAKER_02]: I was just writing it for us. 01:53.802 --> 02:04.815 [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, I did publish and I in the pub because I did go through the process and I did send out some query letters, but I was 65, first time author and a nobody. 02:05.276 --> 02:08.880 [SPEAKER_02]: So I wasn't high on any literary wish list. 02:09.701 --> 02:16.429 [SPEAKER_02]: So I in the pub and I used the same company that Lisa genova had used for still Alice. 02:17.330 --> 02:21.936 [SPEAKER_02]: I figured that was going to be a solid group and it was I had a good experience anyway. 02:22.135 --> 02:27.941 [SPEAKER_02]: I started hearing from readers and they'd ask what else I had written and I had written nothing. 02:27.961 --> 02:35.549 [SPEAKER_02]: But I had also gotten involved with the writing community and I realized I loved writing so I continued with my next book. 02:35.889 --> 02:40.614 [SPEAKER_02]: My husband and I've spent a lot of time in the South of France and I wanted to set my books there. 02:41.295 --> 02:46.320 [SPEAKER_02]: I also heard from women who said they really like reading about older women, more mature women. 02:46.908 --> 02:49.331 [SPEAKER_02]: and that was a pleasure for me to write about. 02:49.732 --> 03:01.807 [SPEAKER_02]: So I indie Pub3 books and then one morning I opened my computer and there was a name I'll say good morning Patricia, I'm a senior acquisition editor with Amazon's Lake Union publishing. 03:02.568 --> 03:06.573 [SPEAKER_03]: So let's start with starting writing at 65. 03:06.953 --> 03:09.837 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, how do you mean by accident? 03:09.957 --> 03:10.738 [SPEAKER_03]: Tell us about that. 03:11.866 --> 03:35.443 [SPEAKER_02]: Well my husband had a lot of health issues kick in and so I had more time on my hands and I was talking with one of the women in the bridge club one day because we're all still very good friends and she said so why didn't start writing the bridge club which we had joked about like for 40 years we had joked about okay. 03:35.423 --> 03:57.542 [SPEAKER_02]: You should write the book and so I just did I just started writing and it was It was fun because it was writing about people I knew I had to talk to each one of them again Because some of the things I was writing about it happened so many years ago I didn't remember all the details but each one of them. 03:57.862 --> 04:04.688 [SPEAKER_02]: It was their story So they remembered the details and of course it became fictionalized as I went along and I realized 04:04.955 --> 04:13.598 [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't include some things and I need to embellish other things and it just became this wonderful project. 04:13.797 --> 04:23.527 [SPEAKER_02]: and I never intended to publish it, but then they started saying, you know, I showed this to my girlfriend and everybody thinks you should publish your telling women's stories. 04:23.927 --> 04:25.869 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, would be a really good book club book. 04:26.870 --> 04:29.673 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's what happened there. 04:30.393 --> 04:35.619 [SPEAKER_03]: Did you try and get an agent originally for their book or were you just like I'm going to self publish this? 04:35.639 --> 04:38.281 [SPEAKER_03]: How did that process look? 04:38.301 --> 04:43.146 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I really, because I read about, I mean, I knew nothing about. 04:43.312 --> 04:46.616 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, the the writing world or the publishing business. 04:47.458 --> 04:55.729 [SPEAKER_02]: So I followed the website of Terry Fellas who is a Canadian author and shout out to Terry. 04:55.769 --> 04:56.830 [SPEAKER_02]: We love you Terry. 04:57.992 --> 04:58.913 [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. 04:59.153 --> 05:11.530 [SPEAKER_02]: He probably doesn't remember, but I did bump into him on a couple of occasions and he always gave me real encouragement about just get out there and drive around with boxes of your books to all the 05:11.510 --> 05:16.616 [SPEAKER_02]: It looks sort of thing, which I didn't necessarily do, but he was just so encouraging. 05:16.956 --> 05:23.344 [SPEAKER_02]: So, in following his website, I saw who he had first in the pub with the company. 05:24.145 --> 05:29.791 [SPEAKER_02]: And also, I was reading an interview with Lisa Genova around the same time. 05:29.811 --> 05:36.319 [SPEAKER_02]: I remember just going back 15 years, and she had published through the same company. 05:36.704 --> 05:38.066 [SPEAKER_02]: indie pub. 05:38.086 --> 05:52.868 [SPEAKER_02]: So I thought, well, if they both use that company, I'm going to use it because I figured they would have done their homework and I'd been researching all these different publishing companies, but I had no idea what I was doing. 05:53.548 --> 05:55.591 [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, I used this company. 05:55.632 --> 06:01.480 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to mention the name of it because it gets some bad press. 06:01.561 --> 06:11.969 [SPEAKER_02]: Because, of course, what they want you to do is buy their marketing program and, you know, pay money for this and pay money for that, but in all honesty, I had the best experience with them. 06:13.333 --> 06:15.739 [SPEAKER_02]: And I do mention that and thank them at the end of my book. 06:16.006 --> 06:18.930 [SPEAKER_02]: And I had excellent editors, they were great. 06:19.591 --> 06:23.457 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that set me off on this voyage. 06:23.537 --> 06:32.209 [SPEAKER_02]: And then when I started hearing from readers, which was such a surprise to me, I thought, well, yeah, I really did love writing that book. 06:32.290 --> 06:36.335 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was learning so much about the craft of writing. 06:37.117 --> 06:45.068 [SPEAKER_02]: And I had become involved with a lot of writers because I took a blogging course. 06:45.402 --> 06:49.007 [SPEAKER_02]: your blog was really important. 06:49.027 --> 06:52.111 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it just started to become part of my world. 06:52.972 --> 07:01.984 [SPEAKER_03]: So those of you who don't know, so Terry Fellas started his career by self publishing and is now like a bestselling author in Canada. 07:02.204 --> 07:06.550 [SPEAKER_03]: Every book he brings out is on the best 07:07.053 --> 07:09.718 [SPEAKER_03]: you know, so you were talking about still Alice, right? 07:09.798 --> 07:14.606 [SPEAKER_03]: So that was also self-pub originally and then published traditionally. 07:15.047 --> 07:25.926 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is something a lot of our listeners ask about, like, is it possible if I can't get an agent to self-publish and get the attention of agents or publishers down the line? 07:25.946 --> 07:27.488 [SPEAKER_03]: And this is exactly what happened with you. 07:27.568 --> 07:29.652 [SPEAKER_03]: So you self-published, 07:29.632 --> 07:34.977 [SPEAKER_03]: There's three independent books and then you've got a approach by Lake Union publishing. 07:35.337 --> 07:40.082 [SPEAKER_03]: So tell us a bit about what they then wanted to do and what they were offering you. 07:41.203 --> 07:41.463 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 07:41.623 --> 07:46.808 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it was Danielle Marshall, who was the senior acquisitions editor at the time. 07:47.008 --> 07:51.992 [SPEAKER_02]: And I like to mention her name because I don't think I'd be where I am today. 07:52.032 --> 07:57.057 [SPEAKER_02]: Had it not being for her, send me that email. 07:57.307 --> 08:03.277 [SPEAKER_02]: It was such an amazing experience to think that they were interested in my books. 08:04.119 --> 08:09.488 [SPEAKER_02]: And Lekinian bought the rights to my love in pervoss trilogy. 08:09.508 --> 08:22.150 [SPEAKER_02]: But what started off is just my book number two, and I thought it was just going to be a standalone book, but again, I started hearing from readers saying, well, they're talking about cat, the main character, and at the end of the book, 08:22.535 --> 08:26.120 [SPEAKER_02]: she was living in France, so did she stay, did she go? 08:26.160 --> 08:26.922 [SPEAKER_02]: What happened? 08:27.002 --> 08:28.644 [SPEAKER_02]: Tell us more about her story. 08:29.085 --> 08:32.630 [SPEAKER_02]: So while my writer friend said, well, that's great. 08:32.670 --> 08:34.052 [SPEAKER_02]: You can turn it into a series. 08:35.014 --> 08:36.556 [SPEAKER_02]: So that was my intention. 08:36.977 --> 08:39.020 [SPEAKER_02]: So Blake Union said, that's great. 08:39.080 --> 08:40.802 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll take your first two books. 08:41.604 --> 08:43.707 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll do another edit. 08:43.727 --> 08:44.849 [SPEAKER_02]: We'll change the cover. 08:44.889 --> 08:47.833 [SPEAKER_02]: And then we will republish. 08:48.083 --> 08:51.708 [SPEAKER_02]: and when you finish book three, we'll publish that as well. 08:52.348 --> 09:11.292 [SPEAKER_02]: I was really proud to say that when they re-edited, they hardly changed anything, which made me feel really good about the freelance editors that I had used, and they sent me a bunch of different choices for the covers, and I loved my covers. 09:11.873 --> 09:17.280 [SPEAKER_02]: A young man in Toronto had worked with me and done 09:17.817 --> 09:21.843 [SPEAKER_02]: of each cover and then we had them formatted into the book cover. 09:22.203 --> 09:26.189 [SPEAKER_02]: And that was something else I heard from a lot of my readers, you know, we love your covers. 09:26.429 --> 09:28.232 [SPEAKER_02]: I should have them with me and I don't. 09:28.712 --> 09:29.934 [SPEAKER_02]: But they're beautiful covers. 09:30.234 --> 09:35.742 [SPEAKER_02]: And that also is just a lesson that's always stayed with me about the importance of covers. 09:36.042 --> 09:43.934 [SPEAKER_02]: And when I take the books into like I showed a woman who just opened a new bookshop near calling wood where I live now. 09:44.495 --> 09:49.021 [SPEAKER_02]: And she looked at those books yesterday and the first thing she said was, oh, I love the covers. 09:50.543 --> 09:54.890 [SPEAKER_02]: So did you get to keep those covers with Lake Union or did they come to you when they change them? 09:54.970 --> 09:55.671 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 09:56.073 --> 10:13.609 [SPEAKER_02]: No, they kept them and they just put a different, I can't think of what you call it, but a different block on the cover that showed the title and my name and but that was the only difference and so they republished the first two and then they published the third. 10:14.635 --> 10:31.738 [SPEAKER_02]: and then they said okay well that's great but now we'd like you to write a stand alone and by this time I was in my 70s and I said well you know I really only want to write about the South of France is such an important part of my life. 10:31.798 --> 10:35.463 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been going there for 30 years I love it so much. 10:35.723 --> 10:39.208 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I was born there a couple of hundred years ago really did. 10:39.458 --> 10:41.804 [SPEAKER_02]: That's just such a part of my DNA. 10:41.824 --> 10:43.708 [SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, they said, that's fine. 10:43.748 --> 10:46.756 [SPEAKER_02]: I said, I'll move the location. 10:46.816 --> 10:51.086 [SPEAKER_02]: So it won't be where these other books are set, but it's still set in the subject. 10:51.106 --> 10:54.835 [SPEAKER_02]: And the protagonist is still going to be a mature woman. 10:55.118 --> 11:11.717 [SPEAKER_02]: So I wrote Drawing Lessons, which is set around and in the town of Aril, which is a little more west from Provence, and the protagonist was a 62-year-old woman, and I loved writing that book. 11:12.898 --> 11:24.872 [SPEAKER_02]: But I also realized when that was finished, and this sounds really stupid or an author, because imagine how fortunate I was to be approached by a publisher. 11:25.190 --> 11:29.394 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, having to work really hard to get the attention of one. 11:30.636 --> 11:34.179 [SPEAKER_02]: And I realized that I was so lucky to have that happen. 11:34.920 --> 11:41.627 [SPEAKER_02]: But I also knew that in my life was my big family, which is a really important part of my life. 11:41.647 --> 11:43.469 [SPEAKER_02]: My husband's health problems. 11:44.630 --> 11:51.197 [SPEAKER_02]: And also, when he was well, us traveling a lot that I could keep up with the deadlines. 11:51.785 --> 11:55.852 [SPEAKER_02]: I knew it would be a very stressful life. 11:55.872 --> 12:03.024 [SPEAKER_03]: So one, what you say is so important for authors is to know what your goals are when it comes to publishing. 12:03.505 --> 12:09.795 [SPEAKER_03]: To know what your boundaries are, to know where writing is going to fit into your life in between everything else. 12:09.855 --> 12:17.488 [SPEAKER_03]: Because some authors have very different goals, someone like I just want to get traditionally published and I'll work myself to death and I'll have no life. 12:17.468 --> 12:38.042 [SPEAKER_03]: and that is great, but they may not end up very happy and I think it's amazing that you sat and you went, this was a wonderful opportunity and a great corporate, but this is not necessarily what I want for myself because I think authors really need to stop and define success for themselves, 12:38.022 --> 12:43.669 [SPEAKER_03]: If this is still bringing them joy, because here's the thing, we come to writing for the joy of it. 12:44.089 --> 12:56.805 [SPEAKER_03]: But when it becomes a job and we have deadlines and we're working so hard, a lot of the joy is sacked out of it because suddenly it's not the fun hobby anymore, it's like the grind, right? 12:57.266 --> 13:05.616 [SPEAKER_03]: So in terms of a deadlines, like with Lake Union, with what were they expecting you to do in terms of turning books around, like what were those deadlines like? 13:06.305 --> 13:20.124 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, again, remember there's going back a number of years, but I mean, so in my closest writing friends are still our Lake Union authors who came to Lake Union about the same time I did, but they've stayed with them all these years. 13:20.744 --> 13:27.233 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's wonderful, but I appreciate, you know, I like talk to them and I know that they're under deadline and they don't got the 13:27.483 --> 13:30.713 [SPEAKER_02]: second edit has to be back in two more weeks. 13:30.733 --> 13:31.817 [SPEAKER_02]: And that kind of thing. 13:31.837 --> 13:36.953 [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, maybe, you know, maybe I just wasn't committed enough. 13:37.388 --> 13:50.145 [SPEAKER_02]: to want to have the pressure of those deadlines and because the reality is, as you know, when you're fortunate enough to have your book picked up, it goes into the assembly line. 13:50.425 --> 13:57.475 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a publishing date, and there are all those other deadlines that have to be met before the book can be published. 13:58.156 --> 13:59.177 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can see that there's a lot of information 13:59.157 --> 14:00.238 [SPEAKER_02]: You have to meet them. 14:00.919 --> 14:03.663 [SPEAKER_02]: I know of, again, from talking with friends. 14:04.044 --> 14:05.065 [SPEAKER_02]: Things happen in life. 14:05.085 --> 14:10.212 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you have a personal crisis, you know, and you simply cannot make the deadline. 14:10.232 --> 14:12.355 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course, they're going to do their best. 14:12.695 --> 14:15.559 [SPEAKER_02]: Publishers are going to do their best to try and accommodate you. 14:16.400 --> 14:27.595 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I just didn't want to have that stress. 14:27.811 --> 14:30.339 [SPEAKER_03]: have like two books a year deadline. 14:30.359 --> 14:38.445 [SPEAKER_03]: So, and then what Patricia was talking about, all those of the deadlines is you've got like the copy of the deadline and you've got the proof reading deadline and you've got 14:38.932 --> 14:42.278 [SPEAKER_03]: but prior to that, it's a developmental edit deadline. 14:42.498 --> 14:51.214 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's all of these different deadlines, plus you having to work on the next book, because they want the next book to love it by a certain deadline. 14:51.254 --> 14:56.223 [SPEAKER_03]: So you're writing in your book, you're copywriting another book, you're promoting another book. 14:56.263 --> 15:01.412 [SPEAKER_03]: So it can become a lot, a really, really can. 15:02.050 --> 15:24.544 [SPEAKER_02]: And perhaps if I'd started when I was 30 or 40, I would have had a different outlook on it, and a different commitment, because certainly I appreciate the benefits of being with a big traditional publisher, and the main benefit of course is financial, because their reach is so much greater than an indie reach. 15:25.486 --> 15:30.994 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, I mean, I'm fortunate that I wasn't 15:32.476 --> 15:33.838 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I might not have been a good thing. 15:34.559 --> 15:36.481 [SPEAKER_02]: I might not have had the right attitude for that. 15:37.102 --> 15:46.375 [SPEAKER_02]: But the years that I was with Lake Union were very profitable, was very exciting to see so many books being sold. 15:47.016 --> 15:51.382 [SPEAKER_02]: And certainly as an indie, I don't sell as that many books. 15:51.882 --> 15:55.227 [SPEAKER_02]: But again, it's not a big deal because 15:55.645 --> 16:01.033 [SPEAKER_02]: because I'm older and because I'm not supporting my family, I appreciate young writers. 16:01.234 --> 16:05.921 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they have a lot of goals and it's, they're writing because they love writing for sure. 16:06.101 --> 16:08.866 [SPEAKER_02]: Because if you don't love it, you can't do it. 16:09.487 --> 16:14.194 [SPEAKER_03]: So then after that, you went back to indie publishing. 16:14.455 --> 16:14.955 [SPEAKER_03]: That's right. 16:15.035 --> 16:16.658 [SPEAKER_03]: Tell us a bit more about that. 16:16.638 --> 16:17.900 [SPEAKER_02]: I did, yes. 16:17.920 --> 16:25.713 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I realized after dry lessons came out that, yes, that I just didn't want to live by those deadlines fault. 16:26.775 --> 16:35.068 [SPEAKER_02]: And so Lake Union was really great, because a lot of readers who had read my Kravans series 16:35.420 --> 16:39.751 [SPEAKER_02]: we're getting back to me again and saying, hey, what's going on with those characters? 16:39.831 --> 16:50.880 [SPEAKER_02]: We really, you know, we love Cat and Philippe, and I have a woman in her 90s Simone, who's very interesting character, and they wanted to know more about them, so. 16:51.569 --> 16:59.599 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a gift to an author, really, you know, to have your reader so engaged with your characters, and because you're engaged with them too. 17:00.139 --> 17:02.422 [SPEAKER_02]: And so to write about them was great. 17:02.442 --> 17:12.454 [SPEAKER_02]: So I, over the course of a couple of years, I self-pubbed for, well, short novels, they call them now, like novellas, right? 17:12.474 --> 17:20.243 [SPEAKER_02]: 250 to 180 pages, that kind of thing, four different books, following all those characters. 17:21.083 --> 17:23.526 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that was really a lot of fun. 17:24.587 --> 17:32.176 [SPEAKER_02]: And then COVID came along and I was thinking like to write another novel. 17:32.216 --> 17:38.684 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I had a short, again, an novella from a way back that I had. 17:39.004 --> 17:42.248 [SPEAKER_02]: And I decided to take a look at that and turn it into a novel. 17:42.953 --> 17:44.996 [SPEAKER_02]: So that became the secrets we hide. 17:45.898 --> 17:47.580 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it's interesting. 17:47.901 --> 18:00.139 [SPEAKER_02]: And I did, I did send it to Lake Union and because I'd been told that, hey, you know, even if you don't want to write anything now if you have anything, send it to us. 18:00.159 --> 18:05.788 [SPEAKER_02]: So, but the issue with that was that my protagonist was a Japanese man. 18:06.477 --> 18:19.872 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, a few years ago, cultural appropriation was a big deal with publishers and so that was kind of an issue and and they said no, I don't think it's it's not for us. 18:19.893 --> 18:25.819 [SPEAKER_02]: So I just put it out there and I love that book. 18:26.780 --> 18:30.465 [SPEAKER_02]: It was it was a different it was a bit of a switch for me. 18:30.525 --> 18:35.050 [SPEAKER_02]: My books are normally described as having quiet plots. 18:35.198 --> 18:37.621 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, nothing really exciting happens. 18:37.721 --> 18:46.814 [SPEAKER_02]: It's more about the characters and the locations and the lifestyle and what's happening within their relationships with their family and whatnot. 18:47.535 --> 18:56.267 [SPEAKER_02]: And so this was a book that focused very much on mental health and it was set in Hawaii and Japan. 18:56.287 --> 19:03.737 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, eventually it got to the South of France because I have to do that. 19:04.088 --> 19:06.492 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's one for very nice awards. 19:07.433 --> 19:10.438 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's a good book. 19:10.618 --> 19:15.005 [SPEAKER_02]: I think somebody might have been interested in it, but I just put it up myself. 19:15.746 --> 19:19.752 [SPEAKER_03]: What's something that you need to me is how you've found your audience. 19:19.812 --> 19:21.895 [SPEAKER_03]: Because that is the biggest, 19:22.060 --> 19:33.953 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a bigger struggle for authors, is to tap into who their audience is, and to have their audience constantly be in touch and go, I want more of this, I want more of this. 19:33.973 --> 19:51.291 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's extremely difficult, and I think that sometimes we're indie authors do better than traditionally published authors, because they, I don't know, that indie authors, I know, have really found the fans. 19:51.592 --> 19:58.642 [SPEAKER_03]: and much more loyal than traditionally published authors do you think that's right to do think that's not a fair assessment? 20:00.084 --> 20:16.907 [SPEAKER_02]: No I think that's a very good assessment actually and and I wonder if it's because as in the authors we really appreciate the connections that we have with our readers not that other authors don't but it's just a more intimate 20:17.613 --> 20:18.655 [SPEAKER_02]: connection, I think. 20:19.136 --> 20:20.398 [SPEAKER_03]: Can I ask as well? 20:20.498 --> 20:33.501 [SPEAKER_03]: Because once the connection happens, it's great because as a traditionally published author, I love connecting with my readers as well, but it's to get the book in their hands so that they can connect in the first place. 20:33.902 --> 20:36.547 [SPEAKER_03]: So can I ask your first indie published books? 20:36.627 --> 20:41.055 [SPEAKER_03]: Will they at a price point that made it possible for people to go, 20:41.035 --> 20:50.527 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to take a chance on this debut author as opposed to if it's a hard cover, or if it's a soft cover, people are like, I've never heard of this person before. 20:50.567 --> 20:53.051 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not spinning 25 bucks or whatever on this. 20:53.651 --> 21:02.663 [SPEAKER_03]: So sometimes that's something because people will look at Amazon and go, oh, this is only like $2.99, so I'm prepared to take their chance. 21:02.683 --> 21:05.727 [SPEAKER_03]: Was that part of your marketing campaign in the beginning? 21:06.567 --> 21:07.929 [SPEAKER_02]: it did become part of it. 21:08.370 --> 21:13.419 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, first of all, I have to credit Lake Union with building up my readership. 21:13.599 --> 21:15.302 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, let's face it. 21:15.543 --> 21:16.985 [SPEAKER_02]: I hate to, you know, it's not it. 21:17.566 --> 21:30.769 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not a well-received word these days, but Amazon has a reach, you know, and so in those four years that my books were being published by Amazon, I reached a lot of readers. 21:31.357 --> 21:35.300 [SPEAKER_02]: And fortunately, a lot of those readers stayed with me. 21:35.581 --> 21:37.022 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I'd have the readership. 21:37.102 --> 21:39.464 [SPEAKER_02]: I have today had it not being for Amazon. 21:40.004 --> 21:47.411 [SPEAKER_02]: And another thing that Amazon does is, even after your book is out there, they keep promoting it. 21:47.751 --> 22:00.402 [SPEAKER_02]: I love, even now, I get emails from the Amazon marketing saying, hi, we wouldn't let you know that the promise 22:01.276 --> 22:02.678 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you Amazon. 22:02.899 --> 22:03.700 [SPEAKER_02]: That's great. 22:04.422 --> 22:26.220 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that is incredible because it does mean that people are prepared to take a chance, like I said, on an author that they haven't tried before because it doesn't like spending $2.99 was $25 on that 30 bucks or whatever they have books cost these days, you know, it's a big sort of difference, but just we've only got like five minutes left, 22:28.208 --> 22:31.956 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, listen, we still have a lot to talk about the on-prem. 22:32.136 --> 22:32.376 [SPEAKER_02]: I know. 22:32.397 --> 22:34.421 [SPEAKER_03]: I know, but we have five minutes left. 22:34.561 --> 22:40.172 [SPEAKER_03]: So this is, I think we're going to have to get you to write more for our newsletter Patricia, but show up there. 22:40.433 --> 22:43.820 [SPEAKER_03]: You've got the cover, yeah, for those of you who are looking at you on YouTube. 22:43.840 --> 22:44.261 [SPEAKER_03]: I do. 22:44.381 --> 22:45.002 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 22:45.583 --> 22:46.786 [SPEAKER_02]: So this is my new book. 22:47.648 --> 22:48.850 [SPEAKER_02]: The French Effect. 22:49.302 --> 22:51.724 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just a joy to write. 22:52.205 --> 22:56.849 [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to write something that was just fun and but interesting. 22:57.430 --> 23:00.212 [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, everything I write is said in France. 23:00.232 --> 23:04.276 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you don't like France, don't worry about buying my books. 23:04.296 --> 23:05.878 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I talk about it a lot. 23:06.558 --> 23:10.282 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just a big part of, I mean, it really is, I guess, my brand. 23:10.302 --> 23:14.085 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, my newsletters are full of photos and France for 10 years. 23:14.185 --> 23:19.090 [SPEAKER_02]: I did a women's tour based on my books. 23:19.340 --> 23:21.483 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, two week tour was just great. 23:21.723 --> 23:24.928 [SPEAKER_02]: There are some other things sort of cooking in the pot. 23:24.948 --> 23:28.112 [SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, this book is getting great reviews. 23:28.293 --> 23:31.778 [SPEAKER_02]: The advance readers are all busy posting right now. 23:31.978 --> 23:33.921 [SPEAKER_02]: And it comes out on November 15th. 23:34.902 --> 23:37.345 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm really thrilled with it. 23:37.365 --> 23:39.809 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a happy story. 23:39.829 --> 23:41.952 [SPEAKER_02]: It has some very interesting things happen. 23:42.493 --> 23:45.617 [SPEAKER_02]: It's about a woman widow and novelist. 23:45.597 --> 23:54.027 [SPEAKER_02]: from a small ski town to a hours north of Toronto, but I don't actually mention the name of the town. 23:54.768 --> 24:01.976 [SPEAKER_02]: And her daughter is an artist in Paris and she calls her mom saying that her next door neighbor has an emergency. 24:02.037 --> 24:07.783 [SPEAKER_02]: She's leaving for six weeks in Mexico and she needs a dog sitter for her doberman. 24:07.803 --> 24:13.410 [SPEAKER_02]: So her mom doesn't like to make snap decisions, but she convinces her to go over and 24:13.762 --> 24:16.264 [SPEAKER_02]: and take on this project. 24:16.324 --> 24:23.331 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's all about the people she meets in the place that she goes and the handsome young Frenchman who introduces her to the tango. 24:25.273 --> 24:27.255 [SPEAKER_02]: The French are very big in the tango, you know. 24:27.935 --> 24:41.828 [SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, it's a fun read and it's very, it's said in December January in Paris at Christmas, which is magic and then in the countryside it provides over the actual Christmas days 24:42.618 --> 24:45.082 [SPEAKER_02]: I think people will really enjoy it. 24:45.102 --> 24:47.326 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're such an inspiration. 24:47.526 --> 24:59.906 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, but I have tangled our winds because the only time my husband and I have ever done a dance class together was of somebody's birthday party, because they got in a dance instructor who, I don't know why. 24:59.946 --> 25:03.833 [SPEAKER_03]: Thought that touching everyone the tango would be the best way to go. 25:03.873 --> 25:09.402 [SPEAKER_03]: And as we did the term, my husband need me in the crotch so badly. 25:09.382 --> 25:11.586 [SPEAKER_03]: that I actually couldn't walk for a week. 25:11.606 --> 25:18.540 [SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not a big fan of the tango, but I'm a big fan of yours Patricia. 25:18.861 --> 25:25.794 [SPEAKER_03]: As I said, such an excellent literary citizen, such a wonderful person, a big cheerleader of writers. 25:26.275 --> 25:31.305 [SPEAKER_03]: So for our listeners, we're going to link to the book on our bookshop.org affiliate page, 25:31.285 --> 25:35.370 [SPEAKER_03]: Please get it ready and dive into Patricia's artist. 25:35.390 --> 25:44.001 [SPEAKER_03]: That's the most amazing thing because you know at the moment I don't think anybody can actually buy a brand new physical copy of my debut. 25:44.021 --> 25:45.343 [SPEAKER_03]: How many of you don't know the word? 25:45.803 --> 25:53.513 [SPEAKER_03]: Because it's my understanding penguin random houses just stopped printing it so you can get it on Kindle but you can't get it printed. 25:53.834 --> 25:55.015 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, she's nice. 25:54.995 --> 26:02.628 [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's frustrating and it's maddening, but like for you, you're whole, that is just there and everyone can just go and dive into it. 26:02.729 --> 26:05.133 [SPEAKER_03]: So there was a lot that we weren't able to cover. 26:05.313 --> 26:09.180 [SPEAKER_03]: I had so many more questions, but this conversation was so fascinating. 26:09.541 --> 26:15.932 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm definitely going to get to Patricia and see if we can get her to do something for the newsletter, all the points we didn't get to. 26:15.972 --> 26:17.695 [SPEAKER_03]: So thank you so much for joining us. 26:18.485 --> 26:44.138 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks Bianca, I would love to do that because there is so much to talk about and I love it when I talk with new writers in our writing group, so we are developing and I often say to them, you know what, of course is wonderful if you can get an agent and publisher, but if you can't, if you have this book and it's lovely and you believe in it, get it out there and once people start reading it, maybe the publisher will come to you. 26:45.063 --> 26:46.985 [SPEAKER_03]: Perfect place to end. 26:47.005 --> 26:47.666 [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, everyone. 26:47.906 --> 26:53.631 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back to another Comps segment with the Ever Fabulous Emily Summer from East City, Bookshop. 26:54.052 --> 26:55.453 [SPEAKER_03]: Emily, welcome back to the show. 26:56.194 --> 26:57.255 [SPEAKER_03]: It is great to be back. 26:57.295 --> 26:58.136 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, Bianca. 26:58.176 --> 27:01.219 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know what the hell happened in October, man. 27:01.259 --> 27:03.641 [SPEAKER_03]: Everybody was snoozing or I don't know. 27:03.661 --> 27:06.584 [SPEAKER_03]: They all became compgeniences or what happened. 27:06.764 --> 27:08.466 [SPEAKER_08]: Well, people are compgeniences. 27:08.626 --> 27:10.287 [SPEAKER_08]: Everybody is well-trained. 27:10.428 --> 27:12.009 [SPEAKER_08]: So that's it, I don't know. 27:12.109 --> 27:14.952 [SPEAKER_08]: If people are like, we are in DC, 27:15.370 --> 27:16.051 [SPEAKER_08]: not too far. 27:16.071 --> 27:16.852 [SPEAKER_08]: So I get it. 27:16.993 --> 27:18.395 [SPEAKER_03]: It's probably just as well. 27:18.956 --> 27:20.438 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so we're going to dive in. 27:20.518 --> 27:21.400 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's our first one. 27:23.022 --> 27:39.268 [SPEAKER_09]: Hi, I'm looking for a second comp for my contemporary literary novel in the vein of Lily King's writers and lovers that follows a disillusioned 32-year-old cubicle worker struggling to recreate the life in the wake of her mother's sudden death while contending with family secrets and her own abandoned dreams that becoming an artist. 27:39.248 --> 27:47.103 [SPEAKER_09]: It explores the intersection of grief and desire in the emotional reckoning of second chances, with psychological acuity and some quiet dark humor. 27:47.143 --> 27:54.878 [SPEAKER_09]: The protagonist does everything she can to avoid her grief, including developing a renewed fixation on her ex-boyfriend, a successful photographer living. 27:55.128 --> 27:59.997 [SPEAKER_09]: with his new artist partner in Brooklyn, but when she stakes him out, she learns their lives and not all it appears to be. 28:00.037 --> 28:06.468 [SPEAKER_09]: Morphasad's crumble and her long estranged father resurfaces as the surprising co-executor to her mother's will. 28:06.769 --> 28:11.577 [SPEAKER_09]: She's forced to face her grief, let go of what never truly was, to create a life she really wants to live. 28:11.617 --> 28:16.185 [SPEAKER_09]: I'd love to hear any other ideas you might have for a couple more comps. 28:16.285 --> 28:17.187 [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you so much. 28:18.196 --> 28:22.943 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, writers and lovers, as soon as I hear writers and lovers, I hear a Lily King. 28:23.143 --> 28:24.686 [SPEAKER_08]: I am immediately invested. 28:24.706 --> 28:27.370 [SPEAKER_08]: I am a Lily King super fan. 28:27.510 --> 28:29.693 [SPEAKER_08]: I am a writers and lovers super fan. 28:30.134 --> 28:39.048 [SPEAKER_08]: So I love this comp and I love the description of your book that we've gotten for all the other Lily King fans and writers and lovers fans. 28:39.088 --> 28:40.710 [SPEAKER_08]: I know there are lots of us out there. 28:41.129 --> 28:46.856 [SPEAKER_08]: get to an indie bookstore if you have not read Lily King's latest heart the lover. 28:47.217 --> 28:50.341 [SPEAKER_08]: So that's the apropos of nothing except we all need to read it. 28:50.361 --> 28:58.792 [SPEAKER_08]: A comp that I always recommend for a reader who loves writers and lovers or is looking for something similar is ghost by Dali Alderson. 28:59.072 --> 29:07.002 [SPEAKER_08]: I love Dali Alderson and I love ghosts in particular and I think it hits the same notes his writers and lovers because it's such a pleasure to read. 29:07.268 --> 29:14.037 [SPEAKER_08]: It's so easy to read, but there's so much wisdom and substance and great writing in ghosts. 29:14.337 --> 29:19.904 [SPEAKER_08]: There is not traditional grief in that one, but there is some anticipatory grief. 29:20.364 --> 29:24.410 [SPEAKER_08]: As the main character's parents are aging and her father is ill. 29:24.930 --> 29:30.357 [SPEAKER_08]: So tonally, I think it works well in terms of just like life stage and psychological acuity. 29:30.617 --> 29:34.322 [SPEAKER_08]: And that also reminds me of goodbye vitamin by Rachel Kong. 29:34.657 --> 29:35.939 [SPEAKER_08]: which might work well too. 29:36.019 --> 29:44.431 [SPEAKER_08]: It's possible that one is too old, but I think Rachel Kong certainly is not too old, although goodbye vitamin is her previous book. 29:45.172 --> 29:50.500 [SPEAKER_08]: It's completely different from her more recent book, Real Americans, which I'm sure people are aware of. 29:50.881 --> 29:56.749 [SPEAKER_08]: But what I like about all these books, writers and lovers, ghosts, goodbye vitamin, they all have a, 29:56.999 --> 30:03.026 [SPEAKER_08]: 20 something, 30 something young adult narrator who is struggling, but they're not a hot mess. 30:03.507 --> 30:09.274 [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you understand what they're going through, you understand why they're in the situation that they're in, and they're easy to root for. 30:09.314 --> 30:14.200 [SPEAKER_08]: And along the same lines, a more recent book that I think hits those same notes. 30:14.560 --> 30:19.206 [SPEAKER_08]: This is one of my favorites of 2025, and it's Emily Everett's all that life can afford. 30:19.907 --> 30:20.948 [SPEAKER_08]: It was a respit. 30:21.181 --> 30:28.845 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think it got some initial attention, but otherwise I think it's been a bit underrated and our main character and that one is grieving her mother's death. 30:29.399 --> 30:35.588 [SPEAKER_08]: And she's also working to create that life that balances her passion, which in her case is English lit. 30:35.608 --> 30:39.895 [SPEAKER_08]: She's getting a master's degree with actualy surviving and making a living. 30:40.235 --> 30:46.906 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think that that one works to it definitely reminded me of Lily King when I read it, which is my highest praise. 30:47.266 --> 30:52.674 [SPEAKER_08]: I will also suggest a book that I'm currently reading that I hope will make a splash next year in 2026. 30:53.556 --> 30:57.702 [SPEAKER_08]: And it's called Mother's and Other Strangers by Corey Anne Haydo. 30:57.682 --> 31:09.474 [SPEAKER_08]: It's coming from little brown and it's about as the title suggests, mothers and daughters and about balance things sort of the eventual life you end up with with your artist's dreams, but I'm really enjoying that one. 31:09.535 --> 31:12.282 [SPEAKER_08]: So just just a little wreck for future reference. 31:12.532 --> 31:13.653 [SPEAKER_03]: Love it, thank you. 31:13.753 --> 31:17.959 [SPEAKER_03]: We actually got to see Lily King in Toronto, which was our recently promoting the book. 31:17.979 --> 31:25.067 [SPEAKER_03]: And for our listeners, if you want to see a picture of absolute joy, go to the Instagram account of Sue's Do God. 31:25.207 --> 31:30.093 [SPEAKER_03]: She was our newsletter editor and find the picture of her and Lily King together. 31:30.154 --> 31:33.798 [SPEAKER_03]: Lily said it was one of her absolute favorites and it's just such a joyful picture. 31:33.818 --> 31:35.440 [SPEAKER_03]: So go and look that one up. 31:35.460 --> 31:37.122 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, here is number two. 31:38.823 --> 31:43.628 [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, I'm looking for comp titles for my adult literary historical fiction debut. 31:44.328 --> 31:56.400 [SPEAKER_11]: The novel begins in 1999 and follows three female friends, one Jewish American, one Jewish Israeli and one whose mixed race and Catholic, living in a small fictional city in upstate New York. 31:56.881 --> 32:07.311 [SPEAKER_11]: Told Russia on-style with each of them getting a POV, the narrative is divided into three sections revolving around key events, both in their lives at 16th 32:07.595 --> 32:14.742 [SPEAKER_11]: 26 and 31, back-branded by large-scale historical events such as the Berlin Wall coming down. 32:14.802 --> 32:18.866 [SPEAKER_11]: The themes are complex female friendship and American identity. 32:19.046 --> 32:22.450 [SPEAKER_11]: I thought a fellowship point and tomorrow and tomorrow tomorrow. 32:22.470 --> 32:24.612 [SPEAKER_11]: I know though that they're not sisters. 32:24.712 --> 32:27.615 [SPEAKER_11]: I wonder if us fools or blue sisters might work. 32:27.735 --> 32:32.800 [SPEAKER_11]: But I'd love to have a comp that signals the diversity of these characters and their community. 32:32.980 --> 32:33.300 [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks. 32:34.442 --> 32:35.863 [SPEAKER_08]: I love a friendship story. 32:36.198 --> 32:38.581 [SPEAKER_08]: And I love the suggestions that you've made. 32:38.702 --> 32:41.626 [SPEAKER_08]: I think fellowship point as fools, blue sisters. 32:42.147 --> 32:42.828 [SPEAKER_08]: I like those. 32:42.968 --> 32:44.290 [SPEAKER_08]: I totally get where you're going. 32:44.670 --> 32:51.059 [SPEAKER_08]: And the one that I will add is the wilderness by Angela Florenoi, which just came out in 2025. 32:51.079 --> 32:54.945 [SPEAKER_08]: It was long listed for our National Book Award. 32:55.386 --> 32:58.510 [SPEAKER_08]: And it reminds me of your description because it is also 32:58.726 --> 33:05.322 [SPEAKER_08]: several different women, multi-POVs from all of them, and the timelines jump back and forth as well. 33:05.523 --> 33:10.495 [SPEAKER_08]: Throughout this one is more contemporary, it doesn't go all the way back to the 80s, if I remember correctly. 33:10.655 --> 33:13.883 [SPEAKER_08]: But you jump not just from the characters' perspectives, 33:14.082 --> 33:18.628 [SPEAKER_08]: But you jump from to different timelines as well or different time periods as well. 33:18.889 --> 33:26.239 [SPEAKER_08]: It is very much about American identity and complex female friendships and female relationships. 33:26.259 --> 33:28.783 [SPEAKER_08]: None of the characters in the book are Jewish. 33:28.983 --> 33:35.112 [SPEAKER_08]: These are all black American women and I do think that sounds like a significant part of this novel, but in terms of structure. 33:35.362 --> 33:37.526 [SPEAKER_08]: and content and themes otherwise. 33:37.646 --> 33:40.191 [SPEAKER_08]: I think that the wilderness sounds like it's a really good fit. 33:40.452 --> 33:41.153 [SPEAKER_08]: It was really good. 33:41.193 --> 33:42.235 [SPEAKER_08]: It was very powerful. 33:42.456 --> 33:45.342 [SPEAKER_08]: I highly recommend that one for a great 2025 read. 33:45.843 --> 33:46.564 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, Emily. 33:46.604 --> 33:47.145 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 33:47.225 --> 33:48.628 [SPEAKER_03]: Here we go to number three. 33:49.537 --> 33:53.765 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm looking for comps from my work in progress, young adults slash new adult pyro-remanticie. 33:54.286 --> 33:57.132 [SPEAKER_00]: My protagonist loves to escape her tyrant boss and find her brother. 33:57.453 --> 34:03.324 [SPEAKER_00]: Her only form a scape is sailing with a fearsome pirate ship along with a series of trials, recruits must complete in order to stay on board. 34:04.046 --> 34:08.895 [SPEAKER_00]: The only person who might be able to help her through is the handsome first mate she's unsure she can trust. 34:08.875 --> 34:19.950 [SPEAKER_00]: inspired by Caribbean mythology and my love for pirates of the Caribbean previous comps I thought I'd have been daughter of the pirate king and fourth wing for the recruiting trials although I think that's too big so any help would be welcome. 34:20.130 --> 34:20.491 [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you. 34:21.552 --> 34:33.769 [SPEAKER_08]: So yes I think you're right fourth wing is probably too big I can't think of a bigger romanticy that every title that I get in a catalog from a publisher these days is like this is the next fourth wing while they can't all be. 34:34.053 --> 34:35.817 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think you're right to steer clear of that. 34:36.258 --> 34:43.716 [SPEAKER_08]: But to get the same idea and the same reader, maybe look at the serpent and the wings of night by Karissa Broadbent. 34:44.238 --> 34:50.172 [SPEAKER_08]: So in that book, there's a tournament that gives you the same sort of high stakes adventure part of fourth wing instead of, 34:50.438 --> 34:52.922 [SPEAKER_08]: fellow recruits, you have the competitors. 34:53.362 --> 34:57.789 [SPEAKER_08]: And along those same lines too, maybe look at this schoolman series by Naomi Novik. 34:58.190 --> 34:59.992 [SPEAKER_08]: I know I've recommended her in the past. 35:00.012 --> 35:02.216 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think she's on the cusp of being too big. 35:02.296 --> 35:07.564 [SPEAKER_08]: She is certainly big, but I don't think that she is that like so big that people discount it. 35:07.844 --> 35:11.029 [SPEAKER_08]: And the first in that series is called a deadly education. 35:11.009 --> 35:21.649 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think both of those books that I've mentioned will capture some of the elements and appeal a forthling without the name that's going to be sort of alienating. 35:22.711 --> 35:23.152 [SPEAKER_08]: Wonderful. 35:23.613 --> 35:24.134 [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you. 35:24.334 --> 35:24.735 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 35:24.755 --> 35:25.997 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's number four. 35:26.585 --> 35:28.929 [SPEAKER_07]: Hi Emily, thank you so much for doing this. 35:28.989 --> 35:39.528 [SPEAKER_07]: I'm writing a literary suspense told from the perspective of a middle-aged woman in suburbia, who has never on over the death of her friend, which happened when they were both children. 35:40.269 --> 35:45.639 [SPEAKER_07]: She's pretty reclusive, but does have one acquaintance in her apartment complex, who comes over and announced all the time. 35:45.659 --> 35:51.529 [SPEAKER_07]: And on one such occasion, she shares with the protagonist that a neighbor girl has been found dead in the area. 35:51.509 --> 36:00.180 [SPEAKER_07]: Together, they try to solve the case while the main character works through her own guilt and a rest of development because of the loss of her friend 30 years before. 36:00.240 --> 36:06.248 [SPEAKER_07]: Ashley Flowers, the missing half might be good, but my story is more voicy and there's a lot of dark humor. 36:06.268 --> 36:11.294 [SPEAKER_07]: There's also a little piece of the puzzle that brings us back to the 1700s. 36:11.455 --> 36:19.525 [SPEAKER_08]: I am so glad you said the missing half by Ashley Flowers because I already had that in my head and I know I've mentioned that. 36:19.825 --> 36:20.366 [SPEAKER_08]: here before. 36:20.586 --> 36:23.410 [SPEAKER_08]: But you said that yours is voici and has some dark humor. 36:23.711 --> 36:25.694 [SPEAKER_08]: I found the missing half very voici. 36:25.754 --> 36:27.096 [SPEAKER_08]: It was one of the things I liked about it. 36:27.457 --> 36:31.302 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think it sort of sharp and had some of that dark humor in it. 36:31.342 --> 36:32.444 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think that's a good fit. 36:32.524 --> 36:38.693 [SPEAKER_08]: I would not the voici makes it more of a fit to me instead of less of one for the dark humor. 36:38.713 --> 36:44.382 [SPEAKER_08]: I will add listen to the lie by Amy Tintara also super voici. 36:44.682 --> 36:49.487 [SPEAKER_08]: but very darkly funny for a book about, you know, your friend's death that you've never gotten over. 36:49.527 --> 36:52.830 [SPEAKER_08]: It's really funny and I really enjoyed reading it. 36:52.930 --> 36:53.711 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a fun read. 36:54.012 --> 36:58.656 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm intrigued by the piece of your story that goes back to, I think you said the 1700s. 36:58.756 --> 37:04.422 [SPEAKER_08]: And for that aspect, maybe look at Amelia Hart's book, The Sirens. 37:05.103 --> 37:12.530 [SPEAKER_08]: It is not the suspense and the thriller that the missing half and listen to the lie are, but it's definitely literary. 37:12.570 --> 37:14.132 [SPEAKER_08]: It's definitely suspense fall. 37:14.467 --> 37:20.995 [SPEAKER_08]: and it also has a contemporary versus historical angle that might be a nice match for that part of your story. 37:21.616 --> 37:22.076 [SPEAKER_03]: Wonderful. 37:22.377 --> 37:24.920 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, we almost did halfway mock, number five. 37:26.081 --> 37:28.384 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking for Comps for my speculative romance. 37:28.404 --> 37:32.108 [SPEAKER_01]: To Lula James has just met the man of her dreams, he's enigmatic, sensitive, and sexy. 37:32.269 --> 37:34.571 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a world famous rock star and he's crazy about her. 37:34.932 --> 37:36.954 [SPEAKER_01]: The only problem, he's been dead for 50 years. 37:37.475 --> 37:44.203 [SPEAKER_01]: Orphan Jiang, to Lula was adopted by the aunties, the free spirit of lesbian couple who run the most iconic record shop 37:44.183 --> 37:48.749 [SPEAKER_01]: When Aunt Rosie has diagnosed with a rare memory disorder, Toulou is fragile sense of home starts to unravel. 37:48.989 --> 37:51.292 [SPEAKER_01]: Until vivid lucid dreams pull her somewhere impossible. 37:51.632 --> 37:55.337 [SPEAKER_01]: Into the arms of Jack Maddox, the doomed front man of her favorite 60s rock band. 37:55.897 --> 38:00.022 [SPEAKER_01]: Toulou discovers her connection with Jack's band's lifetimes, transcending time itself. 38:00.483 --> 38:07.812 [SPEAKER_01]: With a clock running out on their faded romance, she must discover whether their love is powerful enough to rewrite history, or if loving Jack will cost her everything she has left. 38:07.792 --> 38:09.634 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of my comps are either too older too big. 38:09.955 --> 38:19.887 [SPEAKER_01]: Some have considered or actually postants a seven year slip, Adi LaRou outlander and the time travelers life for epic love stories that transcend time and Daisy Jones and the six for Los Angeles Rock and Roll nostalgia. 38:20.007 --> 38:20.648 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for your help. 38:21.309 --> 38:25.134 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, I love this pitch, you know, I love a rock star, dead or alive. 38:25.214 --> 38:28.958 [SPEAKER_08]: I think you're right on the money with the seven year slip by Ashley Posten. 38:29.319 --> 38:31.842 [SPEAKER_08]: If I hear anything that has that sort of, 38:31.822 --> 38:37.287 [SPEAKER_08]: light speculative element to what is otherwise might be a fun romance. 38:37.427 --> 38:38.028 [SPEAKER_08]: I think of her. 38:38.108 --> 38:39.009 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think that's great. 38:39.349 --> 38:41.291 [SPEAKER_08]: I love the mention of these record shop aunties. 38:41.351 --> 38:43.112 [SPEAKER_08]: I'm already ready to read it. 38:43.453 --> 38:45.595 [SPEAKER_08]: So definitely Ashley Posten, that feels right. 38:45.615 --> 38:47.216 [SPEAKER_08]: I think she's not too big to cop. 38:47.516 --> 38:50.419 [SPEAKER_08]: I do, I think your right, Daisy Jones is too big. 38:50.439 --> 38:51.680 [SPEAKER_08]: The others too old. 38:52.341 --> 38:56.985 [SPEAKER_08]: So here's this is kind of a wild one that captures the same Daisy Jones aspect. 38:57.205 --> 39:01.069 [SPEAKER_08]: But Cameron Crow's recent memoir, The Uncool, it just came out. 39:01.437 --> 39:02.198 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a memoir. 39:02.258 --> 39:03.339 [SPEAKER_08]: He's a music critic. 39:03.540 --> 39:06.744 [SPEAKER_08]: It's about his days as a as a music journalist, not critic. 39:06.764 --> 39:11.270 [SPEAKER_08]: But it's basically the movie almost famous in memoir form. 39:11.350 --> 39:13.092 [SPEAKER_08]: That's what almost famous was based on. 39:13.152 --> 39:17.758 [SPEAKER_08]: So I don't know if there's a way to mention a memoir and have it bring up the same vibes. 39:17.818 --> 39:23.766 [SPEAKER_08]: There's also a new book coming out next year called Reck your heart by Laurie Raider Day. 39:23.746 --> 39:26.651 [SPEAKER_08]: that they are pitching to readers of Daisy Jones. 39:27.091 --> 39:34.423 [SPEAKER_08]: And I think it is an effective pitch and the people that I've heard who have read it already have really liked the book and think that it will do really well. 39:34.924 --> 39:39.932 [SPEAKER_08]: So depending on your timeline and that publishing timeline that's when you might be on the lookout for. 39:39.952 --> 39:41.755 [SPEAKER_08]: And then just in general, maybe 39:42.089 --> 39:56.679 [SPEAKER_08]: look at, you know, I'm thinking of something like, is it Alyssa Sussman meets Matt Hague with Alyssa Sussman right such good celebrity, Normie romances and Matt Hague right such good, lightly speculative litfic. 39:56.699 --> 39:59.945 [SPEAKER_08]: So I'll throw those out there and see if there's any way that that fits as well. 40:00.326 --> 40:01.028 [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you, Emily. 40:01.328 --> 40:02.190 [SPEAKER_05]: Number six. 40:03.115 --> 40:12.483 [SPEAKER_05]: I'm looking for subtitles for a women's fiction novel about a Hollywood publicist who's bad behavior as the meanest, bullying, boss, and town blows up her life spectacularly. 40:13.004 --> 40:22.192 [SPEAKER_05]: She's assigned to community service at the county zoo, cleaning up after goats and learning from acute zookeeper about the importance of wildlife conservation and our place in the natural world. 40:22.893 --> 40:30.760 [SPEAKER_05]: She also has to attend a court order 12-step program as anger management, which helps her unpack the trauma of her past that caused her to behave so monstrously. 40:31.465 --> 40:42.845 [SPEAKER_05]: If she can learn to put others before herself, she can use her PR skills to launch a huge star-studded campaign to raise money and awareness for endangered species, and find a happy ever after with her zookeeper sweetheart. 40:43.706 --> 40:56.629 [SPEAKER_05]: Other than the TV shows single-drunk female, I haven't thought of any women's fiction comps or romances that deal with a mean protagonist who better herself to all step groups, zoos, or the entertainment publicity machine. 40:57.487 --> 41:09.673 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, I love a bad mean main character who has to get her come up it's my favorite Hollywood novel in recent years is the work wife by Alison Behart. 41:09.974 --> 41:23.962 [SPEAKER_08]: It's got that Hollywood insider angle and it's got personal assistance in it, but it's got publicist too, but it's got these very insider characters with questionable motives and morals who are forced to come to reckoning. 41:23.982 --> 41:28.050 [SPEAKER_08]: It's more of a me two novel than it is like an unlikable 41:28.030 --> 41:34.157 [SPEAKER_08]: female protagonist novel, but I think that it is, it's right in that Hollywood wheelhouse, and it's excellent. 41:34.177 --> 41:38.221 [SPEAKER_08]: So I would look at that just to see, does it make any sense as a comp? 41:38.262 --> 41:40.244 [SPEAKER_08]: And if not, you're going to read a great book anyway. 41:40.664 --> 41:52.958 [SPEAKER_08]: And then in terms of, I can't, I also can't think of anyone where really mean main characters, bad behavior blows up her life, but in terms of 41:53.579 --> 41:57.763 [SPEAKER_08]: Unlikable, but maybe relatable, well-written characters in general. 41:58.184 --> 42:05.551 [SPEAKER_08]: I am thinking of Tathy, Rodesser, Ackner, the placement is in trouble, long island compromise, and I'm also thinking about Maria Simple. 42:05.931 --> 42:13.478 [SPEAKER_08]: So of course, her most famous was Where'd You Go Burn a Dead, which is too old, but she's got a new one coming out next year, called Go Gentle, which I've not read yet. 42:13.819 --> 42:19.324 [SPEAKER_08]: But I feel like both of them do a really good job of writing these characters who you're like, what are you doing? 42:19.484 --> 42:20.305 [SPEAKER_08]: And why are you doing it? 42:20.325 --> 42:23.248 [SPEAKER_08]: And I don't understand, but then 42:23.414 --> 42:23.995 [SPEAKER_08]: around to it. 42:24.215 --> 42:26.540 [SPEAKER_08]: So something to think about. 42:26.560 --> 42:29.385 [SPEAKER_03]: Marvellous, okay, number seven. 42:29.405 --> 42:34.354 [SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking for Comps for my book blending contemporary sci-fi with women's fiction with three POVs. 42:35.055 --> 42:44.292 [SPEAKER_04]: Olivia Finningan is a woman who wakes up realizing she has been kidnapped by a highly skilled international group of super humans who fight for the protection of other elects in their gene altered futuristic world. 42:44.272 --> 42:51.605 [SPEAKER_04]: Believing her capture is a mistake she fights to take a back to her husband and daughter, but she finds out she has the gene variant giving her advance abilities. 42:52.066 --> 42:58.237 [SPEAKER_04]: The other elects, including the two other POVs, try to convince her to train and to stay away from her family to keep them all safe. 42:58.718 --> 43:07.714 [SPEAKER_04]: Being wildly in love with her husband back home and with being a mother, Olivia is driven to deeply explore who she is without these tags and how her new found abilities will fit into her old life. 43:07.694 --> 43:11.562 [SPEAKER_04]: This book dives deep into subjects of motherhood, self identity, marriage, and grit. 43:11.922 --> 43:19.939 [SPEAKER_04]: The memories ever husband and the male relationship she develops will make you debate if your team calmed, team bear, or team Jackson, while falling head over heels for team Olivia. 43:20.299 --> 43:26.712 [SPEAKER_04]: My book has similar world failed to this mortal coil, which is too old and dramatic twists like wild dark shore, which is too big. 43:27.193 --> 43:28.656 [SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate any suggestions. 43:29.851 --> 43:52.962 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, I always mentioned Blake crouch drink when Emily suggests Blake crouch if there was a drinking game for this segment drink when I suggest Blake crouch, but I I mentioned Blake crouch all the time because I do think he's just that good and I think he's the best at blending like very grounded realism with these superhuman techy sci-fi possibilities. 43:53.382 --> 43:55.605 [SPEAKER_08]: So take a look at the great Blake crouch. 43:56.075 --> 44:09.637 [SPEAKER_08]: And the superhuman abilities aspect also made me think immediately of the Schwab's vicious and vengeful, although she is probably too big and those are older, but I think that the superhuman abilities part might work there. 44:09.677 --> 44:16.108 [SPEAKER_08]: And look to at Helen Phillips's novels, so she wrote the need and more recently, hum. 44:16.088 --> 44:38.948 [SPEAKER_08]: The need especially is about motherhood and the demands of motherhood and balancing your real self and motherhood And she also does a great job of what Blake Crouch does which is blend our real world and our real like very real-seeming lives with this futuristic sci-fi possibility Awesome, okay, no debate Hi, I'm Stacy. 44:38.988 --> 44:40.730 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm a huge fan of T-Snot. 44:40.790 --> 44:42.791 [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and thank you so much for doing this. 44:43.572 --> 44:44.593 [SPEAKER_06]: I'm looking for a calm 44:45.012 --> 44:46.574 [SPEAKER_06]: for my novel burned down the world. 44:46.954 --> 44:51.099 [SPEAKER_06]: It's a dual POV YA fantasy that's a love story between sisters at its core. 44:51.560 --> 44:58.528 [SPEAKER_06]: Half portal fantasy quest with terrifying element monsters and half our world political and trade with terrifying men. 44:58.588 --> 45:07.539 [SPEAKER_06]: It's about a really confident princess lease who magically swaps bodies with her sister, Queen Ari, to take her place on a deadly underworld quest. 45:07.559 --> 45:12.184 [SPEAKER_06]: While these fight soul-sucking element monsters alongside the son of her father's assassin, 45:12.687 --> 45:15.690 [SPEAKER_06]: Ari works with the sorceress to get least back to this world. 45:15.931 --> 45:21.697 [SPEAKER_06]: A lot, all while forming a resistance group and fighting to retake her throne from the old man who's used to her pair. 45:22.298 --> 45:22.979 [SPEAKER_06]: Thank you so much. 45:24.420 --> 45:30.187 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, the YA fantasy and adult romance see those as you have all probably figured out. 45:30.327 --> 45:36.734 [SPEAKER_08]: These are my hardest, but I had a couple of immediate thoughts for this YA fantasy with political intrigue. 45:36.774 --> 45:40.939 [SPEAKER_08]: The first thing that I thought it was three dark crowns by Kondari Blake. 45:41.307 --> 45:54.123 [SPEAKER_08]: It's older, but the political intrigue and the battle over the throne feel like it would be right for the same reasons I thought Holly Blacks, the cruel Prince, that whole series seems like a really logical comp. 45:54.803 --> 46:02.713 [SPEAKER_08]: Less obvious and more recent would be the book Sisters of the Snake, which is actually by Sisters. 46:02.753 --> 46:06.758 [SPEAKER_08]: Their last name is Nanua or Nanua in A in UA. 46:07.075 --> 46:19.282 [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, don't know how well that did in terms of like a sales track, but I would take a look at it because if I recall correctly, it has both the sister angle and the very high stakes political battle. 46:19.623 --> 46:21.988 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think there are definitely some similarities there. 46:22.650 --> 46:23.311 [SPEAKER_10]: Awesome. 46:23.331 --> 46:23.632 [SPEAKER_10]: Okay. 46:23.672 --> 46:24.915 [SPEAKER_10]: Number nine. 46:25.030 --> 46:29.739 [SPEAKER_10]: My name is Julia and I'm looking for comp titles for my debut psychological thriller beneath the surface. 46:30.000 --> 46:37.114 [SPEAKER_10]: Beneath the surface follows Mallory, a burnt out premed student who joins her best friends a sell and worry for a hiking trip in the Appalachian Mountains. 46:37.695 --> 46:45.891 [SPEAKER_10]: What begins is a much needed escape spirals into a waking nightmare with strange sickness, mountain folklore bleeding into reality and a charming stranger who 46:45.871 --> 46:47.976 [SPEAKER_10]: who blurs Mallory's grip on reality. 46:48.356 --> 46:49.399 [SPEAKER_10]: Things quickly sour. 46:49.439 --> 46:54.430 [SPEAKER_10]: As her body fails and paranoia sets in, Mallory discovers the real danger isn't in the mountains. 46:54.891 --> 46:55.592 [SPEAKER_10]: It's beside her. 46:56.133 --> 47:02.968 [SPEAKER_10]: Estelle, her life one best friend has been drugging her, slowly stealing her identity and trying to live Mallory's perfect life for herself. 47:02.948 --> 47:06.533 [SPEAKER_10]: The novel blends psychological tension with atmospheric survival elements. 47:06.933 --> 47:14.403 [SPEAKER_10]: It is intended for new adult and adult readers who enjoys stories about female rivalry, identity, and the quiet violence event with a touch of romance. 47:14.824 --> 47:16.005 [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you so much for your time. 47:17.167 --> 47:25.378 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, plot-wise, this is different, but I have to mention Heartwood by Amity Gage, because that is the current book on 47:25.747 --> 47:30.216 [SPEAKER_08]: hiking survival the apple latch and trail and it is so good. 47:30.436 --> 47:31.278 [SPEAKER_08]: Everyone should read it. 47:31.318 --> 47:38.191 [SPEAKER_08]: It's one of those books that I think you can put in almost anyone's hands because it's got so much and it's just so wonderful. 47:38.371 --> 47:44.683 [SPEAKER_08]: So absolutely, if you all have not read Heartwood by Amity Gage yet, that is one of my 2025 faves. 47:45.102 --> 48:04.275 [SPEAKER_08]: I also immediately remembered an older horror movie called The Descent, which is about a group of friends female friends who go spelunking and then man they're down in this cave and bad stuff starts to happen and I was going to say it's older like maybe 10 years old, but I looked it up and turns out it was 20 years old. 48:04.492 --> 48:08.216 [SPEAKER_08]: So that's why sometimes I can't pinpoint which titles are too old to recommend. 48:08.696 --> 48:14.322 [SPEAKER_08]: It all seems recent enough to me, but I recommend the descent as a horror movie if anybody is a horror watcher. 48:14.542 --> 48:34.262 [SPEAKER_08]: In terms of book comps back to our topic, I always love to recommend both Peter Heller and Kimmy Cunningham Grant when it comes to any sort of suspense that has an element of action adventure or survivalism. 48:34.613 --> 48:40.259 [SPEAKER_08]: and the beauty of nature and also the terror of being stuck in nature and in the elements. 48:40.940 --> 48:56.276 [SPEAKER_08]: And Kimmy Cunningham Grant's most recent book, which came out last year, the nature of disappearing also has some of the friendship, frenemy themes, the themes of envy, who can you trust, that complications of friendship and how dangerous that might be. 48:56.676 --> 48:59.559 [SPEAKER_08]: So it has those same themes, so I think that one could be really good here. 49:00.080 --> 49:02.983 [SPEAKER_03]: Great, okay, here is our last one. 49:03.132 --> 49:25.596 [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, so our last one I got in writing actually so this one was written in instead of sentence of voice mail still please send it as a voice note if you can but I will read this one so you to hear it in my voice hello thank you for this segment it's very instructive I'm looking for cops for my YA novel that is set in a school for spies it takes place in the real world and there's no supernatural elements in it. 49:25.812 --> 49:29.157 [SPEAKER_08]: But I put in a lot of work on the lore and the world building. 49:29.298 --> 49:32.984 [SPEAKER_08]: It's a secret community that has specific rules and a very rich history. 49:33.505 --> 49:37.030 [SPEAKER_08]: So I strongly believe it can appeal to fantasy readers, even though there's no magic. 49:37.691 --> 49:39.575 [SPEAKER_08]: Do you know of any books that could be good comps? 49:39.755 --> 49:44.783 [SPEAKER_08]: I usually mention the Beaves Gambit, six of crows, and Wednesday the TV show. 49:45.067 --> 49:51.032 [SPEAKER_08]: but I'd love to have more examples of books that are not fantasy yet still have a great emphasis on world building. 49:51.412 --> 49:54.895 [SPEAKER_08]: There's steam punk, gothic elements in it as well, in case that's helpful. 49:54.995 --> 49:55.776 [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you in advance. 49:56.257 --> 49:56.937 [SPEAKER_08]: You are welcome. 49:57.057 --> 50:03.703 [SPEAKER_08]: My first thought for a YA book that has this fantasy crossover appeal, but is not fantasy or magic. 50:03.863 --> 50:06.906 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's Jennifer Lynn Barnes, the inheritance game series. 50:07.786 --> 50:10.929 [SPEAKER_08]: Our customers, our readers at E-City Bookshop love it. 50:11.309 --> 50:14.432 [SPEAKER_08]: My kids read it, my husband read it, love these books. 50:14.412 --> 50:18.757 [SPEAKER_08]: And there's definitely some crossover between the things that you mentioned. 50:18.937 --> 50:26.646 [SPEAKER_08]: It's realistic fiction, but it appeals to those thieves gambit, Lee Bardugo, Wednesday fans that you mentioned. 50:26.666 --> 50:38.460 [SPEAKER_08]: So I think look at Jennifer Lynn Barnes, the inheritance game series, and then for the Gothic and Steam punk elements, I thought immediately of the books of Gayle Caringer, which that's exactly what those are. 50:38.480 --> 50:41.584 [SPEAKER_08]: I don't actually don't know if there's magic in there. 50:41.885 --> 50:49.610 [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe not, but either way, I think it has that crossover appeal, and it sounds like it would be right up the same alley for the readers that you're targeting. 50:49.791 --> 50:50.854 [SPEAKER_08]: So that's what I'd go with. 50:51.617 --> 50:52.620 [SPEAKER_08]: And that's it. 50:53.056 --> 50:53.777 [SPEAKER_03]: Amazing. 50:53.877 --> 50:58.522 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you so so much again for taking the time for those of you who want to submit for next month. 50:58.662 --> 51:00.624 [SPEAKER_03]: Please make sure you got our website. 51:00.684 --> 51:01.966 [SPEAKER_03]: There's ask a question. 51:02.086 --> 51:03.527 [SPEAKER_03]: Please submit the recording. 51:03.728 --> 51:09.013 [SPEAKER_03]: This time we included the person who put it on the form in the wrong place, but we can't always do that. 51:09.213 --> 51:16.161 [SPEAKER_03]: Please submit the recording there and do it before the 10th of the month because we do record this segment quite early. 51:16.445 --> 51:20.953 [SPEAKER_03]: but we're looking forward to hearing all your requests and I look forward to seeing you next month, Emily. 51:21.394 --> 51:23.177 [SPEAKER_03]: Look forward to seeing you and thank you all. 51:24.219 --> 51:26.083 [SPEAKER_03]: And that's it for today's episode. 51:26.483 --> 51:28.226 [SPEAKER_03]: I hope you'll join us for next week's show. 51:28.267 --> 51:29.990 [SPEAKER_03]: In the meantime, keep at it. 51:30.310 --> 51:32.935 [SPEAKER_03]: Remember, it just takes one yes.