[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, everyone!
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome to the Delta Flyers journey through the wormhole with quark, decks, and their good friends, Tom and Harry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Join us as we make our way through episodes of Star Trek Deep Space 9.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're hosts for today on my fellow Trek Actors, Armand Shimmerman, Robert Duncan McNeill, and myself, Garrett Wong, for the complete and exciting version of this episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: Please check out patreon.com for it slash the Delta Flyers and sign up to become a patron today!
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, please do.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were just talking about all of our Patreon patrons and our supporters and how awesome they are.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's an amazing group.
[SPEAKER_04]: It really is.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got people that have come to Arbonds play and been so enthusiastic and supportive.
[SPEAKER_03]: Supportive.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the best word to say.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: We appreciate you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it may happen that during the course of this talk, Terry Farrell may pop onto my screen because she's my house guest this weekend.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that would be adorable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it would be.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have some birthdays.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our first birthday is Eve England.
[SPEAKER_03]: Eve on November 27th.
[SPEAKER_03]: Happy birthday.
[SPEAKER_03]: Eve have a great birthday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eve happy birthday.
[SPEAKER_04]: Eve happy happy birthday.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just love her name.
[SPEAKER_04]: Eve England.
[SPEAKER_04]: E E to the second power.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sounds like a like a superhero villain or something like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Take your pick.
[SPEAKER_04]: Super hero or villain.
[SPEAKER_04]: Whatever works.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Next up we have Alicia Culp on November 28th.
[SPEAKER_04]: Happy birthday, Alicia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Alicia, happy birthday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy birthday, Alicia.
[SPEAKER_03]: Have a great day.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, poetry time with Robby's Limerick?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I have a Limerick for this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go
[SPEAKER_03]: Very nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're really good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: You like the unglu.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Fred.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_04]: My high coup for broken link.
[SPEAKER_04]: Odo starts to flux.
[SPEAKER_04]: Only cure is to be judged.
[SPEAKER_04]: Odo can eat now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, here's what's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone they couldn't.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, we have a metamology.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the derivation of the term broken link.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a simple metaphorical descriptor that emerged with the early development of the worldwide web to explain what happens when a hyperlink stops working.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's the phrase.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's the metamology of the phrase.
[SPEAKER_01]: broken from the French abroquet that was used in old English in 737.
[SPEAKER_01]: The definition of it is separated forcefully into parts, into fragments, into pieces.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's broken link.
[SPEAKER_01]: Link in English language had other forms.
[SPEAKER_01]: It could be links like the cat,
[SPEAKER_01]: the Bobcat or link LY and K. It's derived from the old North and I can't pronounce this correctly, but it's spelled H-L-E-N-K. Hello Link, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Old Swedish Lanker.
[SPEAKER_01]: definition is one of the series of rings or loops which form a chain and that word link was first used in the English language in 1450.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now understand when we say 787 and 1450 we're talking about either old English or middle English as opposed to modern English.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: So sort of the Norwegian Swedish heritage way back, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason why these languages are all barring terms for me, each other as everybody knows there's some sorry for lecturing, which is that commerce was bringing ships into London, London, London, going to Amsterdam, wherever.
[SPEAKER_01]: The world was connected through trade, and sailors were coming in with their own respective languages,
[SPEAKER_01]: and incorporate them into their own language.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that, yeah, that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Tell a play by Iris Steven Bear and Robert Hewitt Wolf, story by George Barozak, directed by Uncle Less Landau, and guest stars, Solomon Jenz, as the female changeling.
[SPEAKER_04]: Robert O'Reilly is Galron.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jill Jacobson, as Shalon O'Roya, Leslie Bevis, as Reonage, and Special Guestar, Andrew J. Robinson, as Garrick, and we talked about how he changed it for the new J, which is the second episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for your, his grandfather's name.
[SPEAKER_04]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_04]: George, uh, co-star Andrew Hawks, as Amatagon.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was the one Jim Hadar that had to sit in the
[SPEAKER_04]: One little bit of trivia here, Broken Link is unique for a Star Trek season finale as the story for the episode came from a freelance writer, George Brousack, rather than the writing team.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that is unusual.
[SPEAKER_03]: Usually there's a big idea, you know, a big idea that the staff has had for a while that kind of heading toward.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this was, I like that it was an unexpected season finale for me because I kept saying, when's the big battle?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a feeling on a battle or gem at our battle.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you didn't need a battle.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was, it was full.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was really good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just, you know, Shalon Aroyo was originally written to be a recurring character.
[SPEAKER_04]: The producers wanted to give Odo a love interest while he was in this human form.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Aroyo was supposed to return in the fifth season.
[SPEAKER_04]: But after watching this episode, the producers felt that she wasn't exactly right for Odo.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they dropped that character as a love interest.
[SPEAKER_04]: Which I, I'm kind of bummed.
[SPEAKER_04]: I kind of wanted to see more.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, oh, this might be something of interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so I don't really share the same sentiment as the writers.
[SPEAKER_04]: What did you guys feel about that though?
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you guys feel like no connection?
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I know the future, I went, you know, this is, you know, I wasn't all that interested in this relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a much better relationship coming in the years.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, good to know, Robby.
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt a bit like there was no subtext to this character.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't know if it was the performance of the way it was written, but if there had been a bit of more of a secret and more of a subtleness and more subtext going on rather than so blatantly,
[SPEAKER_03]: Flirting or all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would have been more interested.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I could see how Odo was a bit put off by the aggressiveness or the blatantness of it all.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say that I just looked up Jill Jacobs in the actress She passed away last December.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh December what year?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh December 8th in Culver City, she passed away.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, man 70 years old, so still Youngish
[SPEAKER_01]: actually watching her first scene, well, I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but watching the first scene, I thought she was working for the founders.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, I did too a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was so obvious that you're like, there's gotta be something more for this.
[SPEAKER_03]: It can't just be done with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's such a chance when they touch hands.
[SPEAKER_04]: She put on the virus to him.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh my gosh, I didn't even think of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think of that at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: It caught us on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Detail either, but yes, it's something about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Strange.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: Huh, I thought about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, one of the little tidbit here.
[SPEAKER_04]: This episode sees Odo officially disgraced and rejected by his people, making him the fourth regular character alienated from his race as punishment.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the other three being warf, quark from body parts, the most recent episode, and garrick.
[SPEAKER_04]: So look at that.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's four disgraced and exiled or, you know,
[SPEAKER_04]: put it arm's length or still.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Definitely feels like this episode is taking advantage of the mythology we've learned so far about the Jim Hadar, the founders, the Otis Pat, and it's setting it up and the Klingon's involvement.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of things coming together in this story in a great way, without a space battle, without all that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, without all the CGI, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, there's CGI of Oda.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, there's a lot of CG.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, there's a lot of CG.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there's a lot of CG.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, without these CGI space battles.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought they spent a lot of money on CGI in the Sims.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of them used to see it off.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: And, of course, the last but not least, a little bit of trivia is the rocket loft and does not appear in this episode as usual, which is a button.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so many episodes that they haven't used him at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I mean, great for him because he's getting time off.
[SPEAKER_04]: He can go to school.
[SPEAKER_04]: He can do whatever he has to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, but probably he can get into his sports, you know, which he loves so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: But still, I would be bombed if I was a series regular.
[SPEAKER_04]: They didn't use me in two thirds of the episodes in a season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't know his contract, no one does except for Syrock, but I'm wondering if they had to pay him anyway for certain amount of episodes, or whether he got paid for full season, because he was a serious regular, so.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would imagine he got paid for all episodes if he was a serious regular.
[SPEAKER_04]: they would even if he didn't act in it he would still get his payment but he would get zero residuals if he's a we should not feel badly for sarak because he's getting a salary and not having to memorize lines yeah that's not true yeah but no residuals even right if you're not in the episode that's really true yeah zero residuals okay yeah all right we start off in garrick's shop in the tailor shop auto comes in to see what garrick called him for and we meet
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... arroyo that is uh... jill jacabson we meet her for the first time she clearly has a crush on him basically she ask him to join her for a date for a meal and he says he doesn't eat uh... i'm kind of a curt with her and she leaves and
[SPEAKER_03]: then Odo is a little angry at Garrick in the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, next time you call me a better be about a crime.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if this matchmaking stuff, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like, Garrick's response, or he says, well, you know, I think I just witnessed a crime.
[SPEAKER_03]: He didn't set a date.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was very funny.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a good line, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think Garrick did that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously, he set up this meeting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you think he's done that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm, what does he get at it, but I don't know, maybe he feels that if he sets Odo up on a date and Odo enjoys that process and is happy for that that maybe Odo
[SPEAKER_04]: maybe he buys and points with him.
[SPEAKER_04]: He gets a little, I'm wondering if it's because he already has in his mind that he wants to destroy the founders and everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he wants to get to know, change links better in some way, shape or form and become closer to Odo to kind of, I don't know, spy on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Have it, have it in.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, something.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it does seem like there's no,
[SPEAKER_04]: And games.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no concrete.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, what is what?
[SPEAKER_04]: Why would he do this?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't remember them having that many scenes together.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like it's, it's, he's working on a relationship, because I just, and and although Quark and Otto are opposites about the law as well, but certainly people suspicions about garrick would make Otto's suspicious of garrick.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it wouldn't be something that, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe you're right, Garrett.
[SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps it's just, Garrett hoping to get a better footing with Odo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would make sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: And at the very end, the biggest news in this scene is that as Odo starts to leave, he starts having the seizure, this convulsion, this, you know, in stable, unstable situation with his, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: his body and the first of many CGI's.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, the first of many.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Gary calls for medical emergency's team to his shop immediately.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we go off some drama there.
[SPEAKER_03]: We cut to the infirmary a little while later.
[SPEAKER_03]: Odo seems to be okay, but Bashir says that his form is in a state of flux.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he doesn't know why, but he can't leave.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but sure does say well, maybe it's puberty or maybe it's menopause.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's nine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, don't just not like those theories, it's not at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he reluctantly just, you know, agrees to stay at the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: That made you laugh, right, guys?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that metapace is a pity.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, the, not the puberty line, but when he said menopause after that maybe laugh, like he gave the book ends, that's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, he's talking about, you know, how changelings bodies react to things and we've got then we've got Kira in this episode that we learn but Jordan sneezes.
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't get nauseous.
[SPEAKER_03]: They sneeze when they're pregnant.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, we're learning a lot about the, the, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: people's bodies and alien people the alien bodies yes alien biology I got well I kind of bugged me throughout this episode because there's a lot of reference to humanoid humanoid and i'm thinking humanoid is human isn't it or is it like a human like like the structure like a human so so yes humanoid coming from etymology expert yes
[SPEAKER_01]: a humanoid means shaped like a humanoid, but not necessarily human, okay and it can be humanoid.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you could you could call a robot that's built to look like a human form humanoid robot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like the descriptive word that that was used in Voyager, which was by the caretaker Robby.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you remember, he didn't call us, you humanoids.
[SPEAKER_04]: He said, you buy pedolspecies.
[SPEAKER_04]: You insignificant buy pedolspecies.
[SPEAKER_04]: So buy pedols is the one that
[SPEAKER_04]: I've been saying the wrong way forever.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: It sounds fancy.
[SPEAKER_04]: By somebody.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe illegal.
[SPEAKER_01]: It sounds like you're in the WC if you find it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll take the urine out of it and I'm going to go buy pedal from now on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yes, I like buy pedal better than humanoid.
[SPEAKER_04]: They just, just, just pulled me out.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like solids, solids is super cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love solids.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wasn't like what solids is cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm a solid, you're a solid.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: We go to the Wardroom next.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say about this scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: I made a note.
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt like this scene was shot very simplistically, almost two.
[SPEAKER_03]: Simplistically, I was surprised that Uncle Lessland out directed this episode and that scene, the scene in the ward room was so basic.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was just like lack of movement.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that what you were looking for?
[SPEAKER_03]: Even the blocking.
[SPEAKER_03]: You had the three, you had like, Kira and Dax and Warf kind of in this geometric pattern and close up of Cisco and it was all, I don't know, this one, this scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I liked this episode a lot, but this scene I just kind of went.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't feel real, it feels staged.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was very aware of shots in block and that shot of the three and the faces like was something out of a Russian film.
[SPEAKER_01]: That, yeah, that took me out of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's really artificial.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's artificial.
[SPEAKER_03]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're looking at the monitor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Gauron's giving the speech.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's put out throughout the, the quadrant, I guess.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's saying that the Clingons will not accept Federation demands to give up territories in the or canis sector.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's being very provocative, you know, very aggressive.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is it that what doesn't he start by saying we're not going to give up the Cardassian colonies that we have taken over in the other different sector?
[SPEAKER_04]: And then he talks about our canis as a second thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I thought it was all the same sector.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_03]: But maybe it is, I mean, basically the clingons are saying, we're taking over a lot of stuff and you better let us have it and that includes But Joran space, get out of there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's going to get there later.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's going to get there later, he's going to get there later.
[SPEAKER_03]: But in this scene, he's saying, you know, Starfleet's demanding that they give up what they've won and they're not going to do it and we'll fight you basically.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's when Kira sneezes, we think 10 times.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think they make a bet here where she starts sneezing and dacces seven, Cisco says eight, doesn't it, and warps his 10 to something?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: A dacces actually counts, remember?
[SPEAKER_04]: Dacces counts the first couple.
[SPEAKER_04]: After she sneezes the first time, she goes two, three, and she goes, I think seven.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a cute little, quick little beat, I like it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a cute little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which when we got to the joky part of this scene, armen, that's when I was like, well, maybe that's why they were in those weird shots that I didn't like.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is they were trying to minimize the pregnancy part of our story until this news is came, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess maybe that's why, but it felt inauthentic to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the bottom line is we don't know unless we ask him, he's the only one that's true.
[SPEAKER_04]: He could have had a family emergency where he walked, he had to walk away and he told the first AD look, you just direct this scene, I'm out.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he wouldn't go dealt with that and then he came back and look what happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: It just felt unusually simplistic for uncleus.
[SPEAKER_03]: And non-landish.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, shoots good.
[SPEAKER_03]: He shoots really interesting, cinematic kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that particular moment to me was not his.
[SPEAKER_03]: It didn't feel like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not his trademark look.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but the Bajor, the Bajoran sneezing, this is where we learn that it's like their version of morning sickness.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think Cisco suggests she goes to Dr. Bashir, Kira says, well, he's got his hands full with Odo, but she's thinking about going to visit him and worth says that Odo values his privacy, and then Dax disagrees, oh no, I think he loves him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Conversation.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love Worf's comments here where he says, is she always this argumentative to Cisco?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of flirty.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like he likes it, but he's going to, like you can feel a little flirtation between the two of them there, which I thought was.
[SPEAKER_01]: an interesting little detail that they're building it out there building up i i actually feel badly for warf uh he no one is listening he was a series regular on next generation and on deep space nine no one has taken them seriously i know he doesn't have a lot to do with that no and whenever he suggests something it's thrown out of me yes he's got no
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is, that's on purpose, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's in a weird way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think it is, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: They end this scene with Cisco basically telling them all, I think we should leave Odo alone and just let him rest.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we hard-cut to Kira's walking in.
[SPEAKER_03]: The she ignores exactly what Cisco just said at the end of the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're in the infirmary.
[SPEAKER_03]: Kira walks in.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's ignored Cisco's orders goes right to him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: He doesn't feel like company.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, but she's brought him the daily security briefing on a pat to read.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he perks up with that definitely loves his constable responsibilities.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, one of the things that I had a problem with now 30 years later, I probably didn't have a problem with it when I first saw it, is the makeup on the, on Odo and the costume that the dissolving, the sort of melting effect just seemed very, very, very artificial, didn't seem real at all, just seemed like a painter and a sort of thing, and that took
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had the, I had the same feeling about the body stuff and when it, as it progressed, it was inconsistent.
[SPEAKER_03]: It felt like they were kind of not doing the full version of CG and not doing the full makeup.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was kind of neither here nor there.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think it just would have been cost prohibitive to have done it full CG, the whole episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I get why they did that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking about the sneezing, just going back to that very quickly, she says after she sneezed, after Kira sneezed, she says I hate being pregnant.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that took me by surprise when we just seen body parts where she really sort of took it upon herself.
[SPEAKER_01]: She wanted to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was happy about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I understand it's the sneezing that she hates.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just thought, oh, well, that's that's contradictory to what we just saw in the previous episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, it's just a comment.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a comment.
[SPEAKER_04]: And also, I think if you were to ask any human female, hey, would you rather have morning sickness or morning sneezing?
[SPEAKER_04]: I think they'll take sneezing every time.
[SPEAKER_04]: It seems like a pretty easy choice.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_04]: She did seem like she was really cherishing the whole process in the past episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: And all of a sudden now, she's just annoyed by it, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So, and I wish it would have been something else,
[SPEAKER_04]: Instead of sneezing, if they pick something that was truly annoying annoying, you know, that, then maybe, but I have to give them the not credit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have tried to sneeze on camera.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always looks funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looked pretty real to me when she did.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: She did a good job.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have the same thoughts.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not an easy bit to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, it's not.
[SPEAKER_04]: To sneeze on camera.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's very difficult.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, after the moment that Kira gives him the security briefing, he starts reading it and we see him go what?
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: So we know he's read something that has definitely triggered.
[SPEAKER_04]: this constable side of spot something important which brings us into the cargo bay and that is exactly where we find Odo trying to basically stop or apprehend the mysterious, you know, whatever he saw on that report, he realized, you know, he caught something and it's this female female alien who we have seen before.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the third time that we have seen this alien.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's dealt with quirk a couple times, I think, before.
[SPEAKER_04]: But evidently, she's never been named until this episode, but they still didn't even say her name in this episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just on the script, this is all it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: But she's there with her crew.
[SPEAKER_04]: Otto, confronts her and ask about some missing diamonds.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she's like, I don't even know what you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_04]: And as he tries to take her into custody,
[SPEAKER_04]: go through his little de-stabilization thing again, whatever you want to call it, where he loses containment.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a seizure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a seizure.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the way the bathroom sees your bathroom.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a space seizure.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the word I was looking for.
[SPEAKER_04]: It couldn't find.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he goes through a seizure, falls on the ground, and that's when the female alien takes it as her cue to exit.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what a great time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, let's go.
[SPEAKER_04]: The cops in here.
[SPEAKER_01]: did you like though at the end he's a puddle of goo and then as they're leaving quick and hand coming up and kind of out I thought that was going to go bad I didn't you didn't you didn't know like that three shot with the three of them were standing shoulder to shoulder in a previous scene I thought
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a little too much, you know, it's just too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: What if I, I would have, I don't know what they could have done instead.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he can be, if he's melted into a puzzle, how is he, I just didn't, how about this?
[SPEAKER_04]: What if instead of a hand coming up?
[SPEAKER_04]: What if it started a constitute as the head, he's trying to, and then it falls back in again.
[SPEAKER_04]: He can't get back, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: That would have been better.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's the reason.
[SPEAKER_04]: because that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he always for as when Odo goes from liquid to solid, he doesn't form his hand first.
[SPEAKER_04]: He always goes head and then he bought his shoulders and torso and it comes up right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So would be cool if he started to come up and then it fell right back in his splash like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he couldn't do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So.
[SPEAKER_03]: Probably would have been a much more expensive CG though.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's to track all the facial expression rather than just going to hand in.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was a money issue.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mel, you probably.
[SPEAKER_03]: I probably was.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Makes sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: We go into the infirmary.
[SPEAKER_03]: The goo in the hand are now back into Odo form.
[SPEAKER_03]: But his bed that he's in has a lip around.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you notice that?
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: If he spills into goo.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he's like, it's like a train now.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like a container bed like a giant petri dish in Casey turns to go, which I thought was a cool little detail and change.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a good idea for like kids that what the bed, just to have a bed that has that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't catch that at all, but now I'm thinking about the previous scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he's a puddle, how did they scoop up all of him and not lose any part of him?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I used to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I noticed that because I was like, oh, he's back into form, but now he's got the makeup pieces on and they're sort of enhancing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was sort of in between.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, wait, you just left him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a hand.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like how does he, did he reform himself enough to?
[SPEAKER_04]: But if you're right, Armin, if he's liquid, but he's not liquid into a container, which is how he usually regenerate into a bucket.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was liquid onto the floor.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's everywhere now.
[SPEAKER_04]: So how do you not, I guess they got every little bit up then?
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, how I'll see they're gonna explain that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, which if you, a wet wet, you used a wet back from Home Depot.
[SPEAKER_04]: A shopfax?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that's what they did.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the only way.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got a shopfacking case in in changelins.
[SPEAKER_03]: Come over to my house.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, just suck them all up.
[SPEAKER_03]: You just suck them all up.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's in the infirmary, and Renee now has his normal auto makeup, and these patches, these pieces that they've done with drippings, and he's got some visual effects kind of enhancing that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was starting to get complicated here.
[SPEAKER_04]: But do you guys remember when is this the one where he has the blanket on here does he have the blanket on this one One point He's the first self he shows Yeah, he says see for yourself and he shows the thing and then covers it up to save the CGI on that they should have said when he said see for yourself and then that we're that other person should have said no No, no, I don't want to say it's not able to save just the money on that I say Thousands of dollars No, no, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's fine
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, he shows him that it's, he's in bad shape, and Bashir confirms it's bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's only got a week or two left, and Bashir suggests Dr. Moore, the Bajor and Dr. but Otis is absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_03]: He suggests, startfully medical, maybe they can help do something, Otor refuses that too.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they both, Otis says we both know what I need to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I need to go see my people.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to go back to the founders, they're the only ones that can help me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, that's our adventure.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have our mission.
[SPEAKER_03]: Up in the captain's office, Bashir Filts Cisco and Kiri and Anodo, they are planning to go to the Gamma Quadrant, hopefully find the founders.
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't know where they are because their home world is super secret.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but they'll have to go without any cloaking and cure, as mentioned, she wants to come along.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco says, no, uh, you should stay here because I need you here and also this sneezing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because she sneezes at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a call back to as opposed to administrative duties with all the rest that I'm gone in this under the fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: Somebody should be in control of the station.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, that's what that's why that's why Frank's character was invented for TNG is exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's back on this ship?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, who can go in their way,
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to head out on the defiant, we cut to the defiant bridge, they're preparing to leave, but they're waiting for Odo, they've got everything, they want to get everything together, and then move him very carefully onto the defiant.
[SPEAKER_03]: Garic shows up requesting to join them, and Warf here says absolutely no card asking in spies.
[SPEAKER_03]: but Armin, as you said, they ignore warf.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's as good as let me go talk to him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And also Bashir does say, well, if Garex here, there must be a good reason.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is another kind of Bashir and Garex friendship is helping Garek out in this moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's been very clever to become friends with a series regular like that, so Cisco says, yeah, telegaric to meet me in the mess hall.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when he first said that, I was like, it's the replamette.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is he meeting him in the mess hall?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I put a mess hall on the defying edge.
[SPEAKER_03]: We go into the mess hall.
[SPEAKER_03]: Garic is giving to security guards or some crewmen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they were security, but he's giving them fashion advice as he lines them up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to say one of the background actors that was doing the scene, did you start laughing?
[SPEAKER_03]: He was doing a little too much acting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh no.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was rolling his eye, he was just kind of pretending not to laugh.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like facial mugging, don't do anything, don't just listen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know where we drew me out a little.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, the awkward scenes where principal actors are talking to background actors, but the background can't talk and so tell me about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I spent seven years talking to a background actor who couldn't talk.
[SPEAKER_03]: But at least he had to make up on, so there was not the mugging of the idea.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, these guys were just exposed.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I did not catch the mugging because I was laughing too hard of garrick suggestion of you'd be surprised.
[SPEAKER_04]: What a nice scarf can do, which may be laughed so hard thinking, visualizing all Starfleet officers with scarves, like these like silk scarves thrown around their nails.
[SPEAKER_04]: Aviators, Aviators, Aviators.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess you could see it, Aviators, starves.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, he gives them the fashion advice when Cisco arrives, and then again, it's going to sound like I'm piling on these background actors.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then they walked around and went and just stood off camera.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw them in one of the shots as it wrapped around.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, don't they have like a goal or an intention?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or they just, that's where the second, the second or the first should be telling them what they should either have food or go get their food or go to a replicator and get some
[SPEAKER_03]: The background in that scene can sort of bug me, but Garrick tells Cisco that he wants to come along because he wants to ask the founders about the missing Kardashians, when the Kardashians attacked and were beaten, no one returned so he wants to know what happened to his people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And why should a tailor be privy to that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's really exposing himself here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, because that group of Kardashians was not the main Kardashian force.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was the obsidian order force of Kardashians, which he was always rumored to be part of.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Cisco does say to his request.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, uh, we don't need any tailors on this mission.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we certainly don't need any spines.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he starts to leave.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he goes, but there is one thing I can think of.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, if you can distract Odo on this long journey, that would really help.
[SPEAKER_03]: and Garic is thrilled to offer mysterious distractions, galore, that's easy for him.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just had a realization, what if Garic was not really truly ostracized?
[SPEAKER_04]: What if that was a story that was put out there and he was a plant on the station by the city that all are the entire time?
[SPEAKER_04]: I never thought that, Robbie, until just there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Seriously?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, I didn't, I didn't, my boss, everything always thought he'd for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: I, I, I, I, very gullible, because you're not as gullible as I am.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm very gullible.
[SPEAKER_04]: I buy into just ridiculous things.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I, I bought a hook line and sinker that he was, you know, basically ostracized and exiled and sent to Siberia to be on the station.
[SPEAKER_04]: And now I'm like, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_04]: He could have totally been planted there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, whoa.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like his mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, no questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you no lies.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't want to know.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't want to know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like his line, though, he says.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just give me a seat next to Otto's bed, and I promise you I'll conjure up enough in you windows, half truths, and bold face lies about my so-called career in the obsidian order, the constable distracted for days.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a mouthful.
[SPEAKER_03]: It really is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Allerful and it's just, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that he tells Tall Tails?
[SPEAKER_03]: He loves.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's good at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He tells them in a tall way as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was very animated in this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very animated.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say.
[SPEAKER_03]: as a character he was.
[SPEAKER_04]: He was a master of deception, a master of animation.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think he's strategy in this episode to me was I'm going to dazzle them with my big performance of the clown almost.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was playing the clown in this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: playing the fool to entertain everyone and keep them distracted so he could accomplish his mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's the motive for Andy's choices, which is a good idea, which is a very good idea.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, make sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you think about it, everyone he's ever known, or ever worked with, in the Assyrdian order is...
[SPEAKER_01]: pretty much dead now so i mean he's he's got a lot uh on his mind and it's a truth it's a truth people don't take clown seriously and when people when people think other people are dumber than they are or not as important as they are they tend to disregard them and not pay much attention to them it's underestimate them they underestimate and i think it's it's a lovely choice absolutely yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: he's all in for that job and he's going to come along for the ride we go to the promenade next and we see Kira and Bashir helping Odo who's still melting to walk out of the infirmary.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I bumped on this because I just thought shouldn't he be in a wheelchair or a a tub a tub or a giant bucket or something in case he like
[SPEAKER_03]: The struggle for him to walk and Bashir's already said, exerting yourself is going to accelerate this problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at least a gurney, a gurney that had something like a top on top of a gurney would have solved all the problems because he has to face the people going into the promenade, yeah, which would be better than the tub, but a gurney would have been the solution.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it seems like it would have, and it would have kept the stakes high because I was surprised to see him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wanted to walk.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can see where Rename made us understand that his pride demanded that he walk out of the infirmary and face other people of the station, you know, as a proud changeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I understand him walking out, but the physical problem was he should have been
[SPEAKER_01]: You shouldn't have been exerting himself, he shouldn't have been allowed to do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, quirk arrives in the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love this scene, Arma.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Quirk arrives.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very proud of it, actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: I, you should be.
[SPEAKER_03]: I loved it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And for a residual scene, which is kind of what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all of this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it reveals a lot in the season finale, about where Quarkanoto are now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because Quarkarives, and he says, oh, so you are heading out of here, my profits are just going to soar until you return.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're subtly checking to see, you're going to return, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it doesn't say that, but that's subtext going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he's doing it in an out-of-left field way.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Otis says, oh, I'll be back as soon as I can to make your life miserable again.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then Quark has a mama where he shows this hand.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he says, oh, I'm relieved.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you are coming back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: It really is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was great.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then Otto walks dramatically down the promenade, all the people stop and watch him.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of respect for Otto as he had grabbed there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a question about this next shot where they go to space.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it seemed like a different angle of the space station.
[SPEAKER_03]: And where the wormhole opened up as the shuttle went away.
[SPEAKER_03]: It seemed like in a different relationship to the station than I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Usually, I don't know why.
[SPEAKER_03]: Usually we see, yeah, a ship go away and it's like in a certain part of the, of your, you're, you're, you're, you're viewing in the frame.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and the wormholes right in front of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this time, you kind of paned off and it was sideways.
[SPEAKER_03]: It looked like it was, I didn't catch that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you caught it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But bumped me a little.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, wait, that's not where the wormholes are.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's over there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I have one thing about what I was bummed about, and I forgot to mention this earlier, was the first appearance of Garic in this episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: I immediately looked at his face, his makeup, and I thought, it's different to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: It almost looks like the ridges over his eyes were more pronounced, or were not completed the way they normally were applied in the same way, or I don't know what it was, but to me I saw something different, but I don't know if anyone else noticed that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did too, I didn't, I didn't clock up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now that you mentioned, I do remember thinking that his makeup looked different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Had they made changes or had they simply had a different makeup artist?
[SPEAKER_04]: Make a artist.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's what I was thinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the regular person wasn't there and someone else came in or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to pull back the curtains.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes the makeup artist gets sick and you have to put somebody else in.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a day checker that comes in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's a it's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think his normal Cartassian ridges are higher up on his head.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this person lowered them so they're almost it's creating like this weird like extra brow, you know, like brow bone or something by pulling it further down is that's what I think it changed it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was something I remember thinking why does he look strange and then I moved up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I kept thinking our his eyes extra big today, but it was just something with the ridges changed from what we when we saw him last But I'll say well, we they go in the wormhole.
[SPEAKER_03]: They come through into the gamma quadrant and and they talk about how they're going to send out Basically a distress signal Odo's in trouble and they're looking for the founders.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to send this out so that people know they're coming and why they're here
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're going to head into the dominion, no cloak.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're not going to cloak the defiant like they would normally do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is when all the men start discussing, you know, Brian says, uh, I've never been out here without cloaking.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not used to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel kind of naked.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then work, work for Grease.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Disconcerting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco agrees.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel the same breeze that you do, and then DAX with a big smile says, they say, why are you smiling, DAX?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess it's being the same room with so many naked men, which I thought was very funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: with she has been.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She has been a naked man.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Dax has been a naked man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he hasn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dax has.
[SPEAKER_04]: Dax has exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was funny, but it was kind of more of a 90's funny to me than a modern day funny, I in a way.
[SPEAKER_04]: But now that, but then now that Armin is brought up, well, naked of Dax was a man.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now it's more Star Trek funny than yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, bye.
[SPEAKER_03]: Get a little more comedy in there, a little light humor.
[SPEAKER_03]: You go into the medical bay, with Odo, and this is where Garrick is weaving his tall tails.
[SPEAKER_03]: Telling lies, he says he was a gardener at the Cardassian Embassy on Romulus when many Romulus and dignitaries seem to die, mysteriously.
[SPEAKER_03]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, it was very interested in this, yeah, I think this is great, great clues about things he can follow up on, you can tell he's
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would venture to say that yes, he was very interested.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think what I saw in René's performance was him soaking it all up for later processing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, perhaps processing that at that moment, but certainly for later processing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just tell me more, tell me more, so that I have something to chew on when I'm alone and I can think about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think he bought it?
[SPEAKER_03]: The story?
[SPEAKER_03]: I did.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't think he did?
[SPEAKER_03]: I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we know later on that, that, that, that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't buy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know we know that later on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, do we?
[SPEAKER_01]: He does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we do.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we know that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I missed that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's another scene where he tells Kirk.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I didn't think you were there for this.
[SPEAKER_04]: What?
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm pretty sure that he catch that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my note somewhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did buy it though, Robbie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought he bought it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought he bought it too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I bought it.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's always telling these tall tales.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, he says he was the gardener and then Bashir enters and Garrick tells Garrick that maybe Odo should just rest and this is where Odo says no, no, no, no, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's it's working.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to hear more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, because I think he's processing the information.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Isn't the middle of an investigation?
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, once, yeah, picking picking out the truths from the lies and trying to, like, that's a fun game for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: We go back to the bridge of the defiant, Miles says, Kiko and Kira, we're talking one day when he got home from work and suddenly when he walked in, they stopped talking.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's like, what's that about?
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they were talking about me.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's very paranoid here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Even says maybe he needs Julian to move in with them and right in that moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Suddenly on screen we see a full squadron of gem-hadar warships full stops as Cisco
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh-oh, jemodara everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-bum-b
[SPEAKER_01]: Shadows of things, I just didn't get the feeling that the Dan had done a lot of work into creating those ships, but that makes me mean.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_04]: When I look at it, I keep thinking, it's quite simplistic, it's quite basic.
[SPEAKER_04]: It almost looks like they didn't have time to complete the gem at our design of their ship.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, I've always felt that from day one since we've seen it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But you're saying just for this specific episode, Armin, is that what you're saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the first time I'd ever occurred to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's only this, but it could be historically that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this time I went, why don't those ships look more defined to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have more detail.
[SPEAKER_03]: This was early days of CGI, and it probably would have been much more expensive to get into the detail, and much cheaper, especially if you're replicating lots of these
[SPEAKER_01]: And really, this is the last episode of the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're either in the red or in the black, and they're probably in the red.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they've called for a lot of CGI.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it could be that they're cutting corners in order to keep the budget as low as possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the gentleman had a daughter sitting out there and they give him a call.
[SPEAKER_03]: They want to be him over.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Cisco says, OK, tell him I'll meet him in the transporter bay,
[SPEAKER_03]: They beam in directly to the bridge.
[SPEAKER_03]: Buncher.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right to the bridge.
[SPEAKER_03]: They don't even wait for an answer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very threatening.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the sense that they can do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not not that they are threatening.
[SPEAKER_01]: If the sense that, okay, I'll meet them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where did you say at the
[SPEAKER_01]: the transporter bay at transporter bay that they they bust all protocols and they show up on the bridge and and Dax doesn't know they're coming nobody once they're they are and they're aren't they're armed guard with uh with founder um and i thought that's and that shows their power was suddenly just saying we'll we'll do it our way yeah yeah they take over for sure
[SPEAKER_04]: And that, and I had that same feeling in the episode, which it's very possible that you did not review that one with us.
[SPEAKER_04]: But earlier season two, when we first had that one Vorta that just showed up on the DS9 station without any beaming technology, it just looked just appeared.
[SPEAKER_04]: I kept thinking, ooh, these founders, these change things, everyone on that side, the Dominion, very, very threatening, very powerful.
[SPEAKER_04]: they don't even play by the same rules that the Starfleet were the clings-ons of the Kardashians or the bajorians or the frangies.
[SPEAKER_04]: Nobody even plays on that level.
[SPEAKER_04]: That level's insane.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like we don't need transporters.
[SPEAKER_04]: We just we hit a button and we show up anywhere we want.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's like oh boy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, when they pop in, miles goes to reach for a weapon or something and one of the Gemini D'Argrab's miles.
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, it shows their strength here, because miles from just getting grabbed or hit or whatever brief physical interaction, yeah, I got the feeling that there was something pulling at his chest that that he had grabbed skin and bone and tissue and and was was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yankee on it and and that's what I got from from Yeah, Cones reaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like he was tearing at his skin.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it was like It shows this the effortlessness of the gem had are To inflict real pain like the strength that they have
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I didn't really think about flesh and bone.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought about, well, the gym and our have been studying human pressure points and whatnot and things that That really really hurt them, you know, and he thought they found something in some chakra area that's cooked right there that was really was in pain.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah big time
[SPEAKER_03]: The founder is there with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: The founder says that only the great link with all of his people could fix him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she says, just leave him with us, we'll take care of him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Cisco insists on staying.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's very sympathetic to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: She said, I understand.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you feel that way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we can't let you know where our home world is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she sends a gem hadar down to the pilot chair.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got this little device that will
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a very little device, but first it does, it's just, yeah, we just sort of set it up on the ledge of the, but it's a cool device though, because not only does it erase all stuff, does it, it does not allow the Starfleet computer to kind of track, or where they're going.
[SPEAKER_04]: It also fritzes out the view screen, so they can't even see where they're going.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're completely blind.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought, yeah, that's a powerful little device.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder how he helms the ship if he can't, if he can't see it any.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, he can see on his console, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: He can, he has navigational controls on his console, and he has a map basically there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he knows where he's going.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess you have to like, look, look, but it's a bit like flying blind.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, yeah, in a way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: What had been interesting if they had just instead of flying the ship to your point, Armin,
[SPEAKER_03]: If they had said, we're going to put this device here, it's going to shut down all your computers for any kind of records or navigation data, and we're going to track through you to our home world.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they weren't even flying at right we're going to tell you there.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a great idea that would have been a little easier to, you know, to comprehend.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's a just an epic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just an epic.
[SPEAKER_01]: It isn't epic.
[SPEAKER_04]: Another idea is that the female founder comes up and says, OK, she pulls that bag because everyone, these are blindfolds.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's going to put a blindfold on.
[SPEAKER_04]: that would have made me laugh.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the last thing that we hear in that scene after the little device is the founder says, okay, it's time for me to pay Odo a visit.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're now in medical bay.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're in the medical bay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Gary is there.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's, he's actually worried about how he looks because he wants to, he wants to look good in front of, you know, the founder because he's the representative for the Cardassian Empire, but he also, I love about this scene is Odo is sitting here talking about, oh, oh,
[SPEAKER_04]: I think the Robin Lens poison pro-consumeric and you are the one responsible for the transporter.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I was referring to.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's solving of the information he got earlier.
[SPEAKER_04]: He got all that info, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And now boom, he comes up with the payoff, which is
[SPEAKER_04]: you were the one that came up with the the transmitter accident uh... at garrick does not admit to anything as usual he's a garroning warmer but how do i look and that's at that moment that's when the founder comes in she's looking at odo and ship you know she feels bad for him
[SPEAKER_04]: But she says give me your hand, Odo does and all of a sudden the CGI effects happen and Odo's really horrible droopy state is now much better.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's still got that sort of light sheen of sweat on his face, but other than that, he's pretty much intact as the Odo that we know.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so she says, well, this is a temporary thing, this is going to help you for now, but to be completely cured, you need to reconnect with the great link is what he has to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: But also, one thing I left out, she does ask everyone to leave the room.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's like, I need everyone to get out of here because I need to say something in private.
[SPEAKER_04]: So everyone, including the Gemhadar Guard and the Starfleet Guard, everyone leaves.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's when we learn that the true reason is,
[SPEAKER_04]: He is now being judged for killing another change link, which is against their, but it's never happened in the history of time as long as change links have been alive No change links for another the first tenant first one that's ever happened and the reason because that that whole killing of that change link happened the whole season ago
[SPEAKER_04]: So the explanation for that time gap is that there's been a lot of discussion amongst all the change of things.
[SPEAKER_04]: What to do?
[SPEAKER_04]: And there's been some dissenting opinion.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's some people that believe one thing and some believe the others.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so at there at this point, they have to just bring him in and judge him and hear everything that he has to say, open up his thoughts and know what he's saying, what he thought of, so they can see all angles.
[SPEAKER_04]: We never know what's really going on in someone's head, but in the changeling court system, the minute you enter the pool, everyone can see everything.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, ah, you can try to hide things, but I was going to say because later on, he said we do really have to find a hide something to think they try to, but if you're in the damn link and you're interface with the link, that's very difficult to do very different.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I almost feel like the hiding was more a distraction-based thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like maybe the other of changers were saying certain things that tried to distract him from observing what was going on in the group in the English language world.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, so they're going to go, they're going to link him up to judge him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to look at his thoughts and his thought process of why he killed this change.
[SPEAKER_03]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: That will...
[SPEAKER_04]: effect his position, his punishments, he's going to be punished one way or the other.
[SPEAKER_04]: We already know that.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then he even asks, Odo says, what if I choose not to reconnect with the Great Link?
[SPEAKER_04]: And the response from the female founder is, but then you will die.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, this virus that's in you will be, which, you know, I've been said so so brilliantly, may have been the handshake between that, that was a whole date, yeah, but I guess when I was researching this, this, this episode, they were saying that the, the virus that afflicted him was from way, you know,
[SPEAKER_04]: from the prior episode and it was one way you when Jeffrey Combs supposedly put his hand on Odo's shoulder, but in that particular episode when they filmed it, it was such a tight shot that you didn't see a hand, you know, it was just on camera.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember that, yeah, that scene because it was a great scene in the hallway.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was one of my favorite scenes in that episode, but you're, yeah, there were some of the biggest clothes.
[SPEAKER_03]: So tight.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now you don't see any clapping of the shoulders.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you don't see the transmission of the virus, but that's the, that's what the writers did initially intended.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he thoughts about that scene, Armin, just with the founder conversation and the judging and
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what I felt was what a great system of justice, and that part of the ethos of this civilization, of the changeling of the civilization, is they didn't make immediate judgments.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were going to have a trial, and they were going to listen to what Odo had to say, and they were going to
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got, I thought, wow, despite the fact that they killed one of their own, that they were going to have a judicial system that they believed in, and I was quite impressed by that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know if you mentioned it, Garrett, and the recapping of that scene, but to your point, Arman, I think she says at one point, like, well, you know, there's been a lot of discussion about this and a lot of debate, different opinions.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we did send you away.
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe it's our fault.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it was like, oh, everyone's got responsibility in this.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not just like a good guy, bad guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we're the judging, we're the good guys judging the bad guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was saying, we're all sort of linked together here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe we have some responsibility in this, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think thank you for that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So do you think the one opinion was we must pay a death with a death and then the other descending opinion was, but we sent him away to begin with.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's our fault.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe that that was the descending opinion that we are not going to kill him.
[SPEAKER_04]: We have to keep him alive in some way shape or forth.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's an analogy to past judicial cases where defense attorneys were able to argue that society did this to my client and society is responsible and I'm going client and people got off on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're quicked for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I think there's an analogy there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It also makes me think of the Truth and Reconciliation Committees that were put together in Rwanda after the horrible genocide.
[SPEAKER_03]: And people came in, the justice system was not about punishing the bad guy and, you know, separating good guys and bad guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Truth and Reconciliation
[SPEAKER_03]: and we can recognize it and that we all played a part in this.
[SPEAKER_03]: We all had an experience in this.
[SPEAKER_03]: That once the truth is out there, we can reconcile with the truth and with what happened, and move on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Ah, tear fair.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's your guest star.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah,
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry to interrupt, but I just thought it'd be too much fun to just have a surprise pillow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes!
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you hear us?
[SPEAKER_02]: She can't hear us.
[SPEAKER_02]: She can't hear us, don't you?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: We didn't know if you could hear us, but, huh?
[SPEAKER_02]: Not too far.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's read your lives.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know.
[SPEAKER_03]: You look great.
[SPEAKER_03]: You look like you're put together for a meeting of some sort.
[SPEAKER_03]: Are you going on a big Hollywood meeting right now?
[SPEAKER_02]: I am.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to visit her first.
[SPEAKER_02]: and Bonnie Gordon, that is my big Hollywood meeting.
[SPEAKER_04]: That is a big Hollywood meeting.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you mean, pop Bonnie at?
[SPEAKER_04]: What are you guys meeting?
[SPEAKER_02]: At the Earth Cafe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you need to go to the magic castle?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, I want to see you without a convention, without a new tool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those two girls have in coffee.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm like, I didn't just see her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love your background, Robbie.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's insane.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's kind of a chair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Handles each page.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have not de-aids.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a red nose right now for some reason because you are an outdoors need.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did go ahead and rest today.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to find your leg.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean look younger now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does.
[SPEAKER_01]: He does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love you guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you guys.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love you guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love you guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you.
[UNKNOWN]: I love you
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it looks like you've been drinking red.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the thing that's kind of like, I happened.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I know you have it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Arma, when you release, she's mine.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's all mine.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, spoken like a true frinky.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's what I meant to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, the female fenders left now we are in the corridor because Garrett chases after her.
[SPEAKER_04]: He runs up to her.
[SPEAKER_04]: He says, excuse me, excuse me, a moment of your time and the founder turns around and notices who it is and there is not a very happy face right there.
[SPEAKER_04]: You are Cardassian and Garrett said, yes, that's right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just want to know if there were any survivors after the attack on your homeworld by the Cardassian forces and the founder just says survivors
[SPEAKER_04]: She says no, and Gary says they're all dead, and this line is so just creepy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Founders says their dead, your dead, cadassia is dead.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your people were doomed the moment they attacked us.
[SPEAKER_04]: I believe that answers your question.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was like, oh my God, and Gary's response to that.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a pleasure meeting you, and you could see he was like, I want to kill you!
[SPEAKER_04]: But he was saying I was pleasure meeting you at that time, because he had to do what he had to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was an interesting reaction from Andy there, because he was being very cordial.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was meeting you.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then when she left, I couldn't tell if it was fear, panic, if it was anger.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was anger.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought it was that girl.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever he was doing I found very interesting because it was a turn.
[SPEAKER_03]: You saw that there was one expression to her and another one that was showing he's got something else going on there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but it's scary because to me it sounds like the Dominion has plans to completely wipe out all of Cardassio the entire planet to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the point
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, and it's like holy moly and I think that yes, so rob your right There was a mixture of emotions he was playing which is what was so interesting which is shock The realization that his entire people are now going to be exterminated, you know, because of what they try to do And anger that all the obsidian order people that he used to know and command that where his you know is troops They're all dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all dead not one prisoner
[SPEAKER_01]: And the one thing that perhaps could have been there as well, but wasn't, was he is a master chess player, Gareth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: One bad move in chess can lose the game for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, what I would have would have not loved to have seen, but what I would have liked to have seen is him going, maybe we made a mistake by attacking them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because she's saying, you know, I've got, it's made in three or made in four.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and maybe he should have thought maybe we shouldn't have made that attack.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is, I want to point out, Salamate Jens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Salamate Jens is one of America's great, great, great theater actresses, and what's wonderful about this episode is that she is a huge threat without being threatening.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: She makes it clear without ever forcing it that she is a power to reckon with and yet she is just soft-spoken, quiet, elineated times, but it's a grand performance.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a grand
[SPEAKER_03]: She almost reminds me her tone feels like she must have done some Greek drama.
[SPEAKER_03]: He might have.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would have, I can totally picture her not just in theater generally or even classical theater generally, but like,
[SPEAKER_03]: really classically like Greek dramas, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Salami is and was a forced to reckon with the theater.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is huge.
[SPEAKER_01]: She may still be for all I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying she's passed away, but I don't know how much work she's doing now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when I was growing up in the theater, Salami Jen was a name to reckon with.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, she is 90 years old and you still live with us, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, and she was a dancer.
[SPEAKER_03]: By the way, she looks like a dancer.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was a dancer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, she was a dancer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very interesting ballet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that what it says?
[SPEAKER_03]: It looks like, um, a lot of different things.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she did a lot of different things.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she's a Jackie of all trades is what she is, you know, yes, mess hall next.
[SPEAKER_03]: So off of garrick panicking or angry or all those feelings, we cut into the mess hall and the Brian's trying to figure out a way to communicate with Odo when he's in the, the, you know, the good action to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: How are we going to communicate more says where you can't hide anything from these founders because they're talking about maybe putting in like a micro probes or something like they're just trying to think
[SPEAKER_03]: Odor arrives and says, don't even try and help him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wants to be judged.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wants this judgment to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't need backup.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I make quote from which I think was one of the better lines in the episode, and a lot of good lines.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, I want to be judged.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've spent most of my life bringing people to justice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that it is my turn, how can I run away?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is a huge insight into Odo's soul.
[SPEAKER_01]: He realizes his history, he realizes his dignity, he realizes that he has to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, that's Odo all over.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's a man of principles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Principal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Even at the cost of his own freedom of his own life, the principles are the most, the thing he holds in the highest regard.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's clear.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is what makes him a great lawman.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if he can hold it in himself, he expects everyone to do that as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he says he'll accept their judgment at the end of the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are his people who
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it walks in and Dax is there, but clearly she's not really a control.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, the guards still drive in the ship And it says the walks in he says he wants to know where they where they are now and Dax says I don't know ask him
[SPEAKER_03]: Ask the pilot.
[SPEAKER_03]: The founder says we're less than an hour away from the home world and Cisco says Dr. Brishir and he will be joining them when they go down to the planet and she says, well, it could be days.
[SPEAKER_03]: This judgment could take days and Cisco says I'm happy to wait.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Will it wait?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, they're going to go down to the goo.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope there's more than goo.
[SPEAKER_03]: Would it be like a doggy paddling, a treading water?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, the next scene is we're actually, it's basically like a single solitary formation of rock.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe like 20 by 20 feet.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, it's not that big.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the midst of this huge sea of changelings.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess it's kind of like, it's their guest room.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it their guest room?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, people are coming visit.
[SPEAKER_04]: The rock is their guest room.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, quarters.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the color scheme of the sky, it's kind of golden out, it's gorgeous, it's really nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're there with Odo and the female founder, and she says it's time, she and Odo walk into the water, basically.
[SPEAKER_03]: She goes first and then Odo has a moment because he looks back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hasn't he been able to ever see them again?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, so they give that to each other.
[SPEAKER_04]: They nod to each other sort of like, this might be the last thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I might be, you know, whatever may happen to me, who knows.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so they, they, you know, have a bit of a touching moment there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he goes, it is.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it emerges in.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is a scene when they walk into the water.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very simple.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like that earlier scene that I didn't like that was done.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very simplistic.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: But this scene,
[SPEAKER_03]: done simplistically with some nuance and detail that had so much taste to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I thought this was a simple version done elegantly and that earlier scene was a simple version, less elegantly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it, opinion.
[SPEAKER_03]: This was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_03]: It had a crane shot and it was pretty directional, except for the one cut back on the founder walking in and auto turning around.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it was a very simple shot sequence, shot pattern.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love this first scene when Oda walks into the water.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Blessed loud out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Clearly cleared up his family issues and he was able to direct to the same.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, because again, it's a similar approach in terms of its simplicity of directions and setups and things, but it just had elegance.
[SPEAKER_03]: Compositions and elegance and a little bit of push-ins here and there that just made it
[SPEAKER_03]: I love this.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a, the walking into the water moment was a big deal to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's talk about the water.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about the undulation that they got in the CGI that made one thing, made me think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that could be a pool of of sentient beings.
[SPEAKER_03]: 100% because we know, we all know there was no water on the state.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a set, probably a green screen around it.
[SPEAKER_03]: and the stage floor.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all that was there and a ramp.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they created a beautiful organic environment with the CG work that was really well done.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm, great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now we have a bit of a passage of time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Bashir is wondering how long it's been.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cisco's lost track.
[SPEAKER_04]: He has Bashir says so have I.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's that's the point where Bashir is like messing around with the rock of
[SPEAKER_04]: and our pebble and he decides he's going to like skip starts to cross the wall.
[SPEAKER_04]: He starts to raise his hand back to throw it to skip the like it like we all do on earth.
[SPEAKER_04]: We skip the stone across the wall.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't even do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't tell anyone that we're about to do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: We just do it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's what he's about to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: But all that Cisco has to say is doctor and give him a look and that's the end of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like, oh, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: it down and look at that and look at the look on his face was brilliant.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's like almost like through a rock at a changeling basically and all the changeling on their head.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a cutesy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I laughed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we go to the defiant quarter next and worth and two security guards are marching down the corridor and suddenly worth stops.
[SPEAKER_03]: He says, wait here, goes inside this very small hatch.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're inside a Jeffrey's tube junction of the defiant, where Garrick is working on a panel and we're of grabs him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Garrick makes a very passionate plea to finish the entire planet, finish off the bombs, do whatever it takes, end them once and for good.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this threat to all of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not gonna say his argument, it was very compelling to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was.
[SPEAKER_03]: Andy did a great job talking about how, what a threat they are to everyone, and they have a costume.
[SPEAKER_04]: But to do it would be at a cost.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: But then I've warfed argument was interesting, because he says, well, what about Odo, Captain Sisko, and Bashir and Gary says, well, they'll die, and once the Jemodari lies, what we're doing, so will we, so everyone's going to die, but we will save the Alpha Quadrant.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it was a compelling argument.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a very compelling argument.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, Worf says, I'm a warrior, not a murderer.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to do this.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is not right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's in Garic sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Garic attacks Worf, silly man.
[SPEAKER_03]: Garic's a good fighter in this game.
[SPEAKER_03]: He turns out he is.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's a very good fighter.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: In the very beginning, I thought that Garic was going to win.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought, oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's going to take Warf out, but then Warf got to hand finally.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did see the stunt doubles fighting a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, so do we.
[SPEAKER_03]: A couple of times.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's because we know we know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't look for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I pretended like I didn't even know anything about Hollywood.
[SPEAKER_04]: You were always like, I was all in.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there, I think there are some brief moments when it's actually the two actors.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I did, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: They did a lot of the close-ups themselves, for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do like Worf's last line when he says, you fight well for a tailor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which yeah, I mean, how many times do we have to see Gary B.
[SPEAKER_01]: Less than a tailor to come to the conclusion that he's not really just.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, you fought well for a tailor and ex-gardener on the, on the, on the, on the, on the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Back on our guest quarters on the founders plan at the rock the shares of sleep.
[SPEAKER_03]: The sea is churning now, though, and Cisco wakes up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dr wakes up the sheer.
[SPEAKER_03]: and out comes a naked Odo.
[SPEAKER_03]: What was that first thing that you guys saw?
[SPEAKER_04]: Remember that?
[SPEAKER_04]: The first thing we see before he comes on to the... before he's washed ashore.
[SPEAKER_04]: He's in the... in the midst of the goo.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he does this flailing.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's almost like I thought that's the moment they turned him into human.
[SPEAKER_04]: Where he's like...
[SPEAKER_04]: I think that he falls back in.
[SPEAKER_04]: Probably as a human, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that birth.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did it read, did you guys read it as that as well?
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, but now that you say it, that makes perfect sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK. All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then he gets washed up onto the guest quarters.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, he washes up naked and they pull him up.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the founder comes out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she says, Oda was judged.
[SPEAKER_03]: And basically, he's a solid now.
[SPEAKER_03]: He got what he wanted.
[SPEAKER_01]: but she feels pity for him, and also Bashir says he's taken a scan of Odo and he's gotten some strange readings.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got hearts, he's got lungs, a digestive system, Bashir thinks it's almost as if he were human.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not, it's not the old Odo goo inside there, but they beam up and we cut into the medical bay and Bashir's taking a blood sample from Odo.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right when they say three to beam up,
[SPEAKER_04]: Right at that moment, Odo raises up a little bit and brings his hand up and it looked very similar to the pose in the Sistine Chapel of David, you know, I'm talking about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's Michael Angelos painting on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel of him almost in the same Adam and Adam's.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly, almost in the same pose of what Odo was doing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought that was very interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to add that that founder says he got what he wanted.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, oh yeah, good to be human.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, we gave it to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that I would have liked to have seen and me being a backseat driver is that when Odo, we talked about him coming up from moment and then and then submerging and then coming up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have liked this when he went after he submerged and came up a second time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have liked for him to have coughed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because he's gotten liquid into his now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not liquid, but changing into his lung.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're asking for air in a way that you would if you were coming up out of, yes, from one reality
[SPEAKER_04]: Now that's a great point.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we go to the medical bay next and Bashir's taking a blood sample from Odo and sure enough, Odo does have blood.
[SPEAKER_03]: Human blood.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bashir confirms.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Types.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know my blood type.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's how you should really go donate some blood and find out, so you know, the interesting thing is that the face isn't changed though, they talk about that his face is the one thing and I was very disappointed with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wanted to see a full Renee old vision why without the
[SPEAKER_04]: Stupid makeup.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I'm sure he wanted that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure he wanted that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was that did.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was like, man, this is they missed out.
[SPEAKER_04]: And of course, they validate the reason why his face hasn't changed.
[SPEAKER_04]: They think that it was left that way on purpose that he would never forget that he was a changeling at one point and what he lost.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, but isn't it just his face?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because at the end of the scene, he looks at his arms and his hands and they look human.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he used to have makeup and stuff
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, and you can see his arm here too is human on here because what you never got to see beforehand.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yes, it's just his face, but that's why if you're going to change everything else on his body, come on writers, change his face to human too.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd love to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're spending a lot of money on CGI, save some money by making his face human.
[SPEAKER_01]: And before saving time in the makeup chair for the rest of the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we hear captains log next.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco says captains log started at 49962.4 after leaving our gemhadar escorts at the edge of Dominion space.
[SPEAKER_03]: The defiant has returned home, but for the constable Odo, I'm afraid the journey has just begun.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're back on the on the space station.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're in Garrick shop.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Odo is having to get a uniform because he he doesn't
[SPEAKER_03]: Morphin to the uniform anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got to actually wear clothes.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's wearing them for the very first time.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says ironically, he's been wearing that uniform for three or four years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's being fitted into the uniform.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's been in the uniform.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the same one.
[SPEAKER_03]: same exact clothes for the actor but for Odo it says it feels yeah it's itchy and he says maybe I'm hungry too which is a call back to the first scene where he says I don't eat yep yeah and he says now he's got to do his job thanks thanks Derek for doing his job in making him uniform and he can do this you know he takes the Odo post yes
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I've got to take you to jail.
[SPEAKER_03]: Gerricks going to go to jail six months in a holding cell, which other things is very light sentence.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Gary says to go, I, I did too, but Gary says, you know, my heart was in the right place.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hope you know that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's kind of like the founders justice, like there's not this is not a easy good guy back guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because Gary, as we discussed, made a pretty good argument about why destroying the founders might be a good thing for everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not like, like, shades of gray.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where was right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't let us spy on to this stage.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it's going to cause a lot of trouble.
[SPEAKER_03]: Aroya arrives are a romantic interest for Odo from the first earlier in the episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's very sorry to hear what happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: And offers is there anything she can do to help.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's, again, no subtext in that offer.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all clear what she's offering.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's, let's be honest.
[SPEAKER_04]: At this point, we're all thinking about his human now.
[SPEAKER_04]: He can have no key.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, you can do it before.
[SPEAKER_04]: He can do it now.
[SPEAKER_03]: What did she say?
[SPEAKER_03]: Eventually, you'll see how being a humanoid has its advantages.
[SPEAKER_03]: very not, not very subtly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But Otto just takes, uh, takes Garrick off to the brig.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, that is the end of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I understand the reason for that scene, but it didn't make any sense that for me, after what Garrick did, that he would be allowed to go back to his Taylor shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't a guard.
[SPEAKER_01]: I suppose there was, and the sense that Otto was there, but
[SPEAKER_01]: But there wasn't anyone monitoring, this is a guy who's incredibly evasive and there wasn't anyone watching over him that he didn't escape because he must know what the justice is and and they must have told him yeah you know what the verdict was yeah so it didn't really make sense it didn't really make sense yeah well we cut to the
[SPEAKER_03]: on this station, Otto was heading on to the promenade, Cisco runs into him, ask if he's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's off, he's kind of holding his head, and he says, I think I've just got a headache.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, Otto admits in the scene that he still has flashes of the great link.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Cisco says, you don't need to work right away, take some time.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, get better, and Otos has no, I need to work.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, he's in fatigue.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more than just that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's in fact.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I do, because that's all that's left in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, a good choice by way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I do.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's all he has now.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all he has.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all he has.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a very vulnerable and extended speech here.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's given about being connected to his people for the first time in his life.
[SPEAKER_03]: He really felt connected to all of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he's having some regrets, he's sad to rejoin them again.
[SPEAKER_03]: And all he has is his job now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, his regret is in that line.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then in instant, it was all snatched away.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm trapped in this body.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's when he's the realization is really hitting him now.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very sad.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cisco tries to make him feel better by saying, you know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: You're the best constable in the whole quadrant.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, if that's what you've got, if your job is all you've got, you're the best one at it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so he's trying.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a...
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a weak attempt, I guess.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a nice gesture.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, never less gesture, but doesn't compare to the great link in that experience.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_04]: Gauron pops under the monitor now, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that what I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: A crowd is sort of rumbling and they look over and the crowds gather around a monitor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Gauron's making an announcement.
[SPEAKER_01]: But before we get into Gauron, one of the things that Odo says and I think is important for this moment that you're about to discuss.
[SPEAKER_01]: says, I felt like it was home that I understood my people.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... there and this is the point point there distrust of the solids which uh... is a subtle of reference to what we're about to uh... experience in the show at the very end when we were on the spot to say yes that sounds yeah well they hear this crowd rumbling they all look over gauron's making the announcement on a screen and they listen in
[SPEAKER_03]: He basically says, in 10 days, any Starfleet found in this sector will be considered enemies and they will be fired upon.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's basically declaring war, and he says, our canis is ours, and any resistance will be an act of war, and that's when Odo has a memory.
[SPEAKER_03]: This triggers a memory of the great link.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he says, wait a minute, they were trying to hide something from me when I was connected.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's Gauron.
[SPEAKER_03]: He remembers seeing Gauron in that connection.
[SPEAKER_03]: The head of the Clingon Empire is a changeling.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no, Seth.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dun, dun, dun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_03]: Huge.
[SPEAKER_04]: Gauron's a changeling.
[SPEAKER_04]: Huge.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that true, Norman?
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's the end of the season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: You spoke volumes in not speaking, Amen.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now we know.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we now we know that there's may not even be right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So but we but still it's a done done done moment for anyone watching.
[SPEAKER_04]: We are all thinking holy moly the changes have infiltrated the highest level of the cling on empire.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a it's a big it's perfect for a season finale definitely
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I have to think what was Bob O'Reilly thinking when he read that first, he was thinking, I'm going to get a lot more days, I'm saying, I'm going to be working a lot on DS9.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I bet he was.
[SPEAKER_03]: The theme lesson moral.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, what is your lesson?
[SPEAKER_03]: Hiphany episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: My takeaway from this episode is, there is always going to be something that you have to give up to get what you really want.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my takeaway.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like that's a really good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Armour, do you have one?
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not, I've come up with something but it's weak.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought about this for a good half hour and I could not really find a theme, but I finally came up with something as I said, that's weak and that is the theme is the contemplation of human complexities, the contemplation of human complexities.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that, that, that, that Odo was dealing with his complexities, the founders were dealing with theirs, the crew was dealing with theirs, but as far as that's something to take away as a moral thing like ESAP's fables, they have a, you know, I just thought, I can't, I can't find one, I'm just too stupid, I just can't.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's a complicated episode and I think,
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of where I leaned into with the idea that, you know, life experience is complicated and it's not as simple as getting what you want because you give something up, you know, that that's how complicated life is.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's good and bad with every experience of growth, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, as you said earlier about justice as well, there's there's fault on both sides and and where where is the justice where where is the the meaningful resolution to this complicated problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, mine is uh, mine is that the grass isn't always greener on the other side, um, because forever, Odo's been let.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, solids.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm team solid and then now that he connects with the link, he's like, oh, I understood my people for the very first time now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I realize why they just stress solids and I really, it's all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And beforehand, like I said, he was very adamant about, okay, I don't want to stay on the on the whole world of the changelings at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to be with my people, who are the DS9 people.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I feel like that is the lesson for me is that it's not always, you know, it's not always about keeping up with the neighbors and thinking that someone else has it better than you do when in reality sometimes you do have the best situation.
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, so that's my
[SPEAKER_03]: My mind went to quantum physics with all of this and the founders and it's to have the great link and how everything is just to energy reimagining itself in different forms and you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in a way, I don't think go to appreciate it that until his form was limited the way it is not.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I may make an analogy, he says, now I'm trapped in this body, which of course, all the sudden he finds out what he wanted, because that's what the founder says.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what he wanted.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now he's gotten what he's wanted and he found out it's less than perfect.
[SPEAKER_01]: The analogy that I would make is perhaps the two of you will agree with me, perhaps not.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of us as actors always wanted to get on a series and have a series, you know, run forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when we got it, I'm sure there were days when you went, I'm trapped in the series.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't get out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Days, what about years?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember having, when I was producing the show Chuck, we did that show for five years.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Yvonne Strahovsky, who's going on to a great career now, hand-made style and many other things.
[SPEAKER_03]: But Yvonne around season late, season two, or maybe season three, she was having one of those days where she had been offered another movie or some other job that she couldn't take because of Chuck.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she was just, I remember sitting on a set, I think we broke for lunch and everybody walked away and she was just like, I'm just,
[SPEAKER_03]: want to be here because I keep missing these other opportunities.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember saying to her on the point that you're talking about, Armin, having been on the Star Trek show and then it went away and realizing, oh, this isn't forever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And
[SPEAKER_03]: I said to her, I said, Revan, the best thing you can do for your future career, whatever that is, you're going to get other things is to give 110% now and be present now because this is going to go away.
[SPEAKER_03]: This show is it may seem like forever to you right now in season two or three.
[SPEAKER_03]: It'll be gone in a blink of an eye and have some appreciation and presence.
[SPEAKER_03]: and be here for the conversations, the creativity, the best you can, and that'll guarantee that you get those things in the future, but if you start not showing up and giving everything you've got here, that will
[SPEAKER_03]: Follow you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those those habits will follow you and the reputation will follow you and it won't help you to get where you want to go and she changed like And she said to me when the show was over she said that conversation we had around in halfway through she said really made a difference for me because I I
[SPEAKER_03]: I always thought the grass was greener.
[SPEAKER_03]: I always thought, you know, this wasn't what I wanted.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted something else, and I'm missing that something else, and she goes, that was the best conversation, because I had such a better experience after, you know, the second half of the series than I did that first couple of years that were really...
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought, I got to move on.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to move on quickly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to go do something else.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to be a size.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're wise beyond your years.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uncle Robin, you played Councillor Dianna Troy for Ivonne Strahovsky is what you did.
[SPEAKER_04]: You sat there and she's awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, she's great.
[SPEAKER_04]: I love her.
[SPEAKER_04]: She's awesome too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so that's that is my that's my theme and that's the end of our episode, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: What is our patreon poll, though?
[SPEAKER_03]: They've got some deep thoughts.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do our patron looking forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking forward to the patron.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's really did stop me.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: The patreon poll winner for theme slash moral slash winner slash lesson of this episode is submitted by Alex Ray.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can't avoid the consequences of your actions.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of, in the vein of what you were talking about, Armin in terms of complexity, justice and yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for everyone for tuning in to our recap and discussion of this episode, broken link.
[SPEAKER_04]: Please join us next time when we will be recapping and discussing the episode Apocalypse Rising with Armin yet again.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you again, Armin for hosting with us today and we look forward to seeing you next next time for
[SPEAKER_04]: And for all of our Patreon patrons, please stay tuned for your bonus material.
[SPEAKER_04]: And for everyone else, see you next time.