[SPEAKER_01]: Today, on the relationship renovation podcast, I don't want to hear it, I don't want to hear it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I really need to hear it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We talk all about how two people can avoid exactly what they have to deal with.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello all and welcome to the Relationship Innovation podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am Tara Curwin and my name is Eja Curwin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Today we have something planned but we didn't talk before where we normally would to kind of get our outline and make sure we're getting to all the points because we're just going to show and share with the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what the last couple of weeks have been like for us, and that has been very difficult, and where we think we have learned all the skills and seen all of our blind sites.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, this was a huge one that just kind of appeared, and here we are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and I think it fits into last week of the week before, about getting stronger together, because we talked about sort of like,
[SPEAKER_01]: able to get through and support each other because of a lot of work we've done in our relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was and we talked about it sort of like in a broad scheme of year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think today we're talking about like okay like here's a big like lesson that we've learned in the last couple of week like one specific dynamic within our relationship and sort of our ability to
[SPEAKER_01]: face it, which is not easy at all, and I can't even told her before we recorded it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels a little like rock, because it's still like something we're sorting through, but it also was like sort of like also the skills, you know, the process of like how we talk about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: matters too.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big thing we work with couples of like the content of what is the thing you guys are struggling with.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the how are you struggling with it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing is like this key, you know, kind of A, B, thing you have to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I said, I don't want to have it figured out and then talk about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk about it while we're figuring it out so we can model.
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe also get it wrong, like how to talk about something so difficult, but the biggest piece I think is like the individual accountability to the dynamic, that clearly reared its very big elephant sized head.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's use the tools that we would- You just did a deep breath.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, because we're starting it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's use the tools that we would encourage our clients to use, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, in firsts is like that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right there, I took a deep breath because I'm like, okay, I want to settle my nervous system as we begin this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to start in my window of tolerance.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, you know, so that like, at least going in, I know, like, okay, I'm still acting intentionally.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing is,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I want to set an intention for myself that I let you know of how I want to show up in this conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my intention in this conversation is to be open and to be very aware of
[SPEAKER_01]: that all I can take is accountability for my own part and not let that be contingent upon hearing some accountability.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've made one you to take.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have control of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my there's your deep breath.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just did it unconsciously.
[SPEAKER_02]: My intention is to be receptive, to be honest, to be vulnerable, to recognize if I'm getting outside of my window of tolerance, I will say pause.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say burnt toast that is our code word.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can go take care of myself so that I don't say things that I don't want to say.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm also just
[SPEAKER_02]: And I will say something too, like so for two weeks I've gone through like a rollercoaster of emotions from sadness, deep despair, massive anxiety, probably crying.
[SPEAKER_02]: eight plus hours a week like I had to go through two weeks of like a lot of dysregulation to get to this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think I could have had this conversation two weeks ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to say that that's another point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you might have to take a couple weeks to amote to have some catharsis, to be angry and sad and scared and grateful and all the things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like now I can
[SPEAKER_02]: Sit here because I've reflected on like how do I play a part in this and I for sure do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So just know that if we're going through something difficult or this podcast, kind of trigger is like, oh my gosh, that could be us too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait until you both feel ready.
[SPEAKER_02]: I even checked in with EJ this morning before recorded like,
[SPEAKER_02]: I think this is really important.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to push it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to, and you're like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was apprehensive to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another a synonym would be avoidant of doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we're going to talk about.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just my avoidance, but part of it is talking about my avoidance.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, basically the dynamic we're going to try to continue to move forward between the two of us is we have been facing a significant stress this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a financial and one of the things that created it and certainly has made it more difficult also to feel united together and maybe even solve the problem has been that we have not communicated well about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The you knew things in a general sense that we're going on with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew things in a much more specific sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my my ownership and my like realization of what I could have done better and need to do better in the future is I need to be very direct about what's happening
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of maybe avoiding talking about it, maybe talking about it in very general ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or caretaking me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well definitely, I mean, yeah, I mean, and this is my accountability, is like, definitely caretaking terror, like, oh, I don't want to upset her.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to, but also caretaking myself and like, I don't want to deal with the
[SPEAKER_01]: with the emotions or the conflict that might happen around this, and maybe also like I don't want to face the, you know, because this is when we start to get really deep into it, face the insecurities that like, well, what if, because we're struggling in this way, what if,
[SPEAKER_01]: What if she won't want to be with me?
[SPEAKER_01]: What if she'll just be like, like, well, I can just go find somebody who can give me these things it right now you're not giving me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's probably that's definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: has played a part in it of like just wanting the solve the problem so that you don't see it's a problem so that then you know you're safe and secure and taking care of and not feeling compared to X's and everything else so yeah and and that was a this did not help.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I want to pay you back on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, financial crisis we are in.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm hopeful that we will be okay and we can handle this because we work really hard in our hearts and the right place.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our communication was not.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the dynamic was just that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I think when I think it all actually started like when the twins were born because I was coming into this relationship I was very financially independent.
[SPEAKER_02]: I paid my bills.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had an awesome high credit score I.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I didn't live outside of my means.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't have credit card debt.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I did that because from a very young age, I had to take care of myself and I never wanted to like depend on a, I actually left relationships where I thought I would become financially dependent on a guy and never wanted that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then the twins were born and it was like, right, and like, I had to kind of let go and like trust you with all the finances and because I was so busy and so overwhelmed and And I think that's when it started for me like I just Kind of like, okay, like EJ's got this and I'm just gonna assume like all is good and And then we started our business a couple years after and we were kind of together in that because it was just the two of us
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we know we had to like stockpile money in order to like go to Maine for the summer for your second job and to make rent for the office space and all of that and so yeah there is just like this and then we grew right we grew to the center with like 15 therapists and yeah we needed to like take out some SBA loans over COVID because we were expanding and didn't quite have the liquidity to expand and.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know what I'm just thinking like we're doing great like I'm you know I'm going out not being I'm not super materialistic but sometimes I like to get like new pillows or like a dining room table for outside or my face cream that I love like whatever went to New York with my daughter of so I'm just thinking like we must be good because
[SPEAKER_02]: EJ isn't saying anything different, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then like, maybe a few months ago or something, like I was like, oh, we're not talking about our investments anymore, and we're not talking about, I don't know, I just kept, but I didn't ask, I was too scared.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, well, we must still be okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm spending money on groceries.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm, again,
[SPEAKER_02]: We must be okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could see you stressing out financially, but you weren't really coming to me saying much, so I was like, well, hey, like, like, let me know what you need.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I need to be more a steer this month?
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can cut our budget down to grow.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, fast forward to like a couple weeks ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know exactly what it was, but it was a financial crisis.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, can we even keep our doors open to our business?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, what?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you talking about like,
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I go into a total trauma response.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know now that it came from, you know, when I was younger, we didn't know if we were going to eat.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would go out and work and make money so I could feed my twin and I.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I've worked my whole life to be independent.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all of a sudden, I'm like, I'm going to lose everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've worked so hard for what happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: What the fuck happened?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was really mad at you, really mad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can see how this breaks people up because I was like, how could you do this to us?
[SPEAKER_02]: How could he, how could we get so in debt that I didn't know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And you still let me do these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like by my expensive little moisturizer or I super blamed you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in that spot for like a week.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I recognize like, hang on, Tara, you didn't ask, like you didn't ask questions.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just trusted, you didn't ask questions.
[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't want to know, truly, because what I really wanted to do, and I traces back now, I was like, I just wanted someone to protect me financially.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I know I work hard, I know my hearts in the right place.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I do a lot of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I'm not greedy, so I'm just going to totally, like, and so when that happened, I was like, you didn't protect me.
[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't take care of me.
[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't take care of our family.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we're in this really bad situation where I feel like my whole life is blowing up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was bright and then you were defensive when I felt like you were defensive when you I was trying to bring it up and then somehow I was able to hear and all of that like and I know that your intention was never to hurt our family in any way It was that we are trusting that like in business you have to like take risks and that you always thought like maybe this time like this will work now Right as business owners you take risks
[SPEAKER_02]: And that you are intention was to always be amazing until like make this bigger and more abundant, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Even then we still had to have that second job.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I started to be like, oh my God.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, I'm like, my abandoned issues are coming out, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, never had this dad to protect me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Never had financial stability.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now I'm feeling powerless.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I'm feeling like all my abandoned stuff is triggered.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I really want to do is like leave, go get my own job again, get a three-bedroom apartment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was like my escapism.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was my little girl who wasn't being protected.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now I'm like, no, this is like, this is our lesson.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we have to talk about everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, I was afraid of talking about finances because that little girl part of me just wanted to be protected and cared for.
[SPEAKER_02]: And because I'm doing all these other things, that's the one thing I
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's just, that's not realistic, like I have to be in my life in every area and feel empowered in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I cannot expect anybody else to take over and protect me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now trust, yes, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where we're coming to like.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, EJ, like, I want you to come to me and feel, like, you can be transparent about anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if you said, Tara, you cannot get your last and moisturizer, like, I would be like, okay, like, I'm doing my own hair right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting only coffee once a week, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I can handle it, and I don't know if you thought I could, and I get your intentions were to not hurt me, and you saw how hard I was working, so you're like, oh, she deserves this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if we have to put it on a credit card,
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, no, like now, whatever, whatever we had to learn to get to this point, I'm super grateful for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, I know I'm talking a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, so I recognize like my abandonment stuff was triggered.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was my entire emotional process for the last two weeks, like that feeling or just wanting to be taken care of and stop working so hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I dream
[SPEAKER_02]: so I'm just going to be really empowered.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just really hard because I think anybody out there who just feels like it never stops like that's where I get to that place where I'm just like gosh, I could just use a little break here but it's like when I get to that place and if I don't get out of it,
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I would have left you and I don't want to leave you because you're my person.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know that one thousand percent and I don't think a lot of people get to that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of seeing all the bad things you've done and like, oh, he did it because he loves me so much and he wants me to have all these things and I never got to have.
[SPEAKER_02]: He just did it in a really stupid way and I wasn't helping you because you saw all these other things that I was going through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we have to get really in our life.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to be like flaming on, no freaking Rabbi here, to cut out all the things.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, thank you for sharing all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear everything you're saying and I hear all your pain and you're like your experience of all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think the place for me and the moving forward place based upon what I need to learn from the past is, like, I really have to let go of, and this is I think what people struggle with.
[SPEAKER_01]: that there's many parts of that story that are not my story, not my perception, not my way I would totally characterize things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the past, I've spent a lot of times when we would get into these conversations really feeling like I had to sort of dig my heels in to be like, well, here's your A, well, here's my B because, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: And I still feel awake within me, I feel like this like urge, as you were talking, like even though I've seen you use, you know, your emotions and stuff, there was also this part that were certain things you said, where I were really like hard to hear, but also like just, man, I just, that's not my experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, but I got, I have to let go of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: because I don't know what purpose it serves.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I see it in myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what it's like to be used, so I don't know what, but I certainly see it in my couples.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just see other day I saw a couple who was like, they're just like, they're still battling out things that happen years ago, and they still can't help, but just go point counterpoint, point counterpoint, point counterpoint.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like,
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got to let that go, I got to let that go and you're like, you know, everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I don't think there's anything that you're saying where you're purposefully fabricating it or making it up, but I don't think you're manipulating.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I believe you 100% that that is like your experience and your story and that is
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm learning to no matter the outcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, I'm grateful that our outcome is we're working through this together, but no matter the outcome, I mean, that's what keeps people in horrible places when they do break up and then become horrible co-parents because they never accept it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I accept completely like that is your, you know, story.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what do I have?
[SPEAKER_01]: I have the power to be like,
[SPEAKER_01]: to take accountability for decisions I did make that like I could have been way more specific.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in times where I saw you spending money where I was like, oh my god, I can't believe you just did that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could have said, I mean you saw it because we would get into arguments because you would be like,
[SPEAKER_01]: there would be some expense and you would see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would go generally not into mad at you, but more into extreme internal anxiety.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you would be like, what's what's the problem?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I should have been like, we can't afford that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is all credit.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is 100% all.
[SPEAKER_01]: 19% compound interest that we're going to work that $2,000 is going to cost us $4,000, you know, it's like I should have and will moving forward like when we have things and it's not just you, either like let's be honest, like I spent, I bought shit that like I shouldn't have, you know, and I know you think of that stuff too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, yeah, I didn't, I wanted to give you all the things that you want, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: But what I really want is just like full transparency and you being vulnerable and like saying, honey, we're in a tight spot, like, because look at how we're doing now, we're coming together in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it feels like we're like actually able to solve like even in the past month or two like the things we're doing as a result of finally getting 100% transparent with each other we're actually finding a pathway through this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas if you're not like being totally transparent with each other, then that was a huge part of the problem, whether it's somebody's intimacy, or their finances, or their parenting, if you're not being totally direct and honest with each other, how in the world do you solve the actual problem?
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you deal with the content?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're not able to share a reality because I, you know, and that and that was the problem is like I wasn't direct enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I truly believed that you understood where we were.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe not in specifics, but I truly believe that you got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is not crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I, and I truly believe we were like thriving in okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how like that's that's where we have to maybe just leave that behind because I don't understand how you possibly at least in a year to 18 months could believe that because
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say a year and a half ago, like when we got, when we did our, those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I got in the last year, it was a little bit more stressful, but like yeah, I'm kind of reflecting back on years, like knowing what I know now, but yeah, I think we can agree to disagree, like I still thought we were okay, like I didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think, you know, that's a problem is like, I think in some ways, I did too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, I definitely 18 months a year ago, started to be like, we have got to pull out of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, whatever trend this is, this is not, this is not an anomaly now.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a, this is a full on trend.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so I think like part of it is like,
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe this happens to other couples and other areas like they don't realize.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think I was with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, yeah, we're getting these loans, but like I'm getting the advice of that like, he's the normal thing that businesses do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because we didn't ever have to take out any loans for the first four years of our business.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we got a little bit of help right at the beginning, but like, but no, we didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then like, you know, the advice and what I was hearing was like, hey, you know, it's a part of business growth.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm a big risk taker.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love that sign-me-up.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're both.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, part of this problem is like, and when we can get out of that blame game, and I really felt myself when you were telling your experience, like, I felt like myself like tightening up and just like, man, she's making me look like this, like, idiot.
[SPEAKER_01]: manipulator and so you know a lot of it is about like we don't want to be perceived by anyone or like I don't want to be perceived by anyone especially my partner
[SPEAKER_01]: As that, because you even said it, I mean, you said it like 10 minutes ago, you said, you just, you know, referred to my decisions as stupid.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was, and I was, but no, but I, I mean, I can even, even if you don't say the words, I can read it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I know, depending on your mood state, like, where, what you think of me and, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, just like want to be in that place of like we will lend in that baro like I'm you know what I mean like just that feeling of like I get it like EJ like you had to take over our finances when the twins were born like you had to take over this whole new family thing right like so I can't even imagine this dress and then you saw how stressed I was and then you're protecting me from that and then we grew and we were managing all these people like I get it like I
[SPEAKER_02]: of taking the emotional risk like I you know have we had this discussion three years ago I don't even think we would have been able to be so adult like now I feel like if you're listening to this it happens in layers for hate Like first we were like oh my gosh We're really in this huge transition around twins and a blended family Let's start a couples counseling center to help other couples
[SPEAKER_02]: Then it was like, oh my gosh, we're really dealing with some intimacy stuff because trauma that's like coming up after all of these really hard transitions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, then we worked on ourselves and we worked with each other and we built emotional safety around intimacy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now it's like, it's like, lay or it's like, you can't do it all at once and that's okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you start doing it like little pieces by pieces, now we're at, I feel like there's nothing left, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like,
[SPEAKER_02]: This was like the other part of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like intimacy, finances, emotional safety.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we've now built enough emotional safety getting through the other things that could possibly be more bigger than intimacy because to me, feeling financially secure, like the only time that's ever happened to me is when I was by myself, working for myself, only having to be responsible for myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I haven't had that in terms of a family, I'd like to let that part of me go when I had to give up my job for the first year after the twins were born.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I had to become financially dependent upon other people for the first time in 20 years, 25.
[SPEAKER_02]: and then the last living years of like me being in this codependency that I didn't even recognize where I lost my sense of self and my power and my agency.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not because of you, but because of our situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's the thing is, like, some of the things that couples face is about them and a lot of it's about what they're going through because we were going through your time.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, we suddenly had a family of four.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had massive expenses.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had a business and we had like, for a period of time, one person.
[SPEAKER_01]: working and it was like in the last thing I wanted to do was be in this time of like all this stress be like oh we can't afford to go out this month we can't afford to do anything really other than pay our bills and I wouldn't have been able to hear it then I'd probably wouldn't have been.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for saying that because that that like makes me feel like
[SPEAKER_01]: there's another side to the show because I've always felt like when we have this discussion like it's always like I just was avoiding and I've never like I've never like heard you say like yeah I would have probably thrown a fit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I probably would have said I want to leave you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was not yeah I had not done enough in individual work to recognize.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's but it's not your fault I should have still said because what would have been the
[SPEAKER_01]: for me to do is as a person who was leading our finance would be like I don't care even if you do leave me I can't allow this to happen to us it's not the best thing we're staying at home we're making the best of it and if you don't like it I'm sorry but it's the right thing to do for our family that would have been like that's like the strong person I'm trying to become now I like it's sexy I'm not that's that's hard like I was even telling my parents the other day like
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they had somebody come over and do some work to the house and spill a bunch of shit and make a mess and they paid them $2,500.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, to do this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, that's not my thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there are some people who like, will reem somebody's up and down and like, and fight for that, like that's not, but it fits, like it fits into my thing of like, of like, but that's who I have to become.
[SPEAKER_01]: In order, I mean, and unfortunately you in this world, there is an element of like,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you just have to be willing to do domestic dream, but like do difficult things have difficult conversations, like you have to like do difficult things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just that's what was hard for both of us.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Eja, you have to remember this when we very first started dating and I tried to break up with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: This isn't working, like, let's just date other people.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just went through a really bad divorce.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're like, Tira, I will not date you if you're dating other people.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can be friends.
[SPEAKER_02]: I won't have it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I love that about you.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is what made me be like, oh my god, I don't want to do life without E.J.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that steadfast directness.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, I guess right after...
[SPEAKER_02]: however many years like always come back to that like we got caught up in a whole bunch of stuff and we're trying to help all these people and we kind of put our own you know priorities on the bottom to make sure that everybody else was okay and now we're back to us again and that feels amazing and it's a difficult expensive learning lesson but here we are I and I feel grateful that we are here and
[SPEAKER_02]: And it took a lot of individual work for me to recognize that part of me that wants to be financially safe.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's that little girl who wanted to have like love and financial protection and food from like her parents.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, why do I have to keep struggling?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm almost 50.
[SPEAKER_02]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now I'm like, you know, that story doesn't fit me now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm smart.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're great together.
[SPEAKER_02]: We still had to learn this big, huge lesson and now it's going to be okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to work through it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to be very austere for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully not for a lot bit because I do miss my moisturizer just kidding.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well and I think for me it's like a lot about like because as we are getting really deep actually into doing the things in our business and our personal life
[SPEAKER_01]: that are going to like get us into like a great place.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's super empowering and stuff, but it's a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think like it's like, I'm letting go of this like, and it's so like, I'm like ashamed to say it, but it's like letting go of this like,
[SPEAKER_01]: 15 year old self who like wanted to be an actor and was waiting for the big break and just like just thinks like one day There's just going to be this magic for kind like Both of lightning that like suddenly we've got it We made it and it's not going to come from just like really paying attention to the details like that's where
[SPEAKER_01]: like you saw me like the other night like just sitting like you're like making our popcorn of just like freaking plugging numbers from seven different sources into one place to get a but then like I made this packet that we're going over later today where it's like it's all there and it's like okay this is the path and we had to do a few difficult things we had to cut this we had to cut that you know but like making it through it through not like
[SPEAKER_01]: living in some like fairy tale that is just going to work out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that it's just going to work out because it's like it's like such like a odd or no, it's just like an immature like place.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just like, I mean, I would say that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all, just like any thoughts and feelings that come up for you when you're listening to this like we we love when you share about like I think like for us, we've been together what 14 years, how long are we three nine 13, but we've been together.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, again, it's layers, you know, things happen, transitions happen, and I could see whether it's a blended family transition, whether it's a new baby transition, whether it's a financial transition, whether it's a losing job transition, like I could see why people get so powerless in it, but if you really start to become intentional and look
[SPEAKER_02]: because I probably knew deep down like, ugh, well, I see him financially stressed, but he's not seeing much, so I'm sure it's okay to go spend like $300 at Costco.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I knew deep down, but my little part of myself, that's like, but I work really hard and I'm gonna go get my $10 coffee.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I love your, you have this amazing rounding system.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you choose around up, but when you choose around down, I think it's very cute.
[SPEAKER_01]: You knew, you had a sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I didn't want to know because I was already so overwhelmed in all the other areas and managing a business and all the people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I just don't want to know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to put our freaking blindfolds on.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't want to,
[SPEAKER_02]: And this happens and there it is, I didn't want to know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't, and then you probably said that I'm conscious piece of me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, just it fits into this like it's a similar.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't want to tell you you don't truly want to know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm hoping it's just going to like work, work itself out.
[SPEAKER_01]: You really feel like it's just going to work itself out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the same thing the couples do, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're issues with intimacy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really I have this need but but I don't totally want to ask them might upset you Don't even ask about the intimacy because because then it's gonna make me uncomfortable So then we'll both just like just like keep our fingers crossed at one Sunday like we have sex And then we start having sex again for the rest of our relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like
[SPEAKER_01]: There's there's reasons that both people are avoiding dealing with it because it's really fricking hard It's complicated.
[SPEAKER_01]: We each have our baggage and so therefore we avoid it until we're on the verge of of It all blow it up or it's straight up blows up Yeah, in an argument or a financial crisis or an affair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like that is that's the title of our life And so hey, we are really don't want to know but I really do
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are with you all, I mean, that's like always been our thing at the end of the day in this process and Creating what we've created and doing this podcast every week like this is this is one of the reasons why we're I mean We're in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's it's it's just like oh my gosh
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you for listening.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're getting through it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we'll continue to work through this, but if you can relate or the idea of like, I just want to have my blindfold on because I'm not quite ready.
[SPEAKER_02]: We get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It happens in stages, truly the reason why I wanted to do this is because in those these past two weeks.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would go from like sadness to despair to anger and the resentment.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I was like, I just remember, I bet you this is where people leave.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is where people take off from their person because they say it's too much.
[SPEAKER_02]: Be things weren't transparent in whatever it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I just kept thinking, my God, EJ is the most amazing, beautiful human I've ever met my whole life.
[SPEAKER_02]: and that you didn't do any of these choices on purpose.
[SPEAKER_02]: You were doing it for the good of us too, and we just weren't doing it together in the way that felt, because of our own obstacles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what got me greeting and here today, we're still going through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But together at least.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I can like see today how much I wanted to blame my avoidance on you,
[SPEAKER_01]: or blame my not getting specific on you like you should have known basically what I was saying and I got to just like I got to own it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to own it completely for my own good and then and then for our good.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know that like no no this is my this is my thing is like having difficult conversations taking the risk of being hurt or or left at the sake of doing the right thing like that's that's a thing that like in some aspects of my life I've always been so proud and have received people's respect because of my integrity and this is an area where I got some work to do around integrity.
[SPEAKER_02]: In my little abandonment stuff, I've got some still some work to do around her.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even like, I don't know if in that positive you felt like you had to say something like you don't have to.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not dependent upon that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not dependent upon you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did feel like I had to say something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I could tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, don't want to show that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I love that you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, how do we become our best versions of ourselves together?
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's usually through difficult times.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, again, every couple's supposed to be together, but a lot of you are, and we're here to support you in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why we do what we do.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're very, I feel like we're very authentic in genuine and we don't preach from a mountaintop.
[SPEAKER_01]: So go out and join our Patreon.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm joking, but it's got a funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Join our Patreon, buy our book, our little Amazon ad hope book, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Schedule a discovery call for our coaching.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and that's the other thing, through all this crap, we're really good at helping people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that, and I see it like daily when we work with people and stuff, and so yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, EJ, for being my partner in life and like getting us through difficult times, together and for not running and for being defensive and then turning it around.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if you didn't turn it around and do that, you turn from defensive and this to presence, I don't think I could have grown in the way I have.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's taken both of us to really become adults in our adults else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and thank you, Terra, for wanting to have the tough talks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, I love them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And wanting to...
[SPEAKER_02]: It's my closer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wanting to not accept the status quo, especially when the status quo is not healthy, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hurt me and it's been a comfortable, frequently, but in times like this, I can see how valuable it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how like we are really pretty dang close right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes I also think like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you God for sure giving us all these struggles and then the resilience and the heart to get through them together to be hopefully real models for our family and other people out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean that's the other piece.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like we wanted to have a relationship with God.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: We weren't doing a good job of that, and this really hellish year has pulled us back into relationship with God, and that's been powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been my first relationship, so it's still I'm still working on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard for me to recognize that type of love still, but I'm working on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was heavy, but also light in a way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for listening.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, comment, send emails to podcast at relationship innovation.com.
[SPEAKER_02]: Love to hear from you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much for listening.
[SPEAKER_02]: As always, take care of yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Take care of each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just singin' on the train, me and you listening to the rain Me and you, we are the same, me and you