[SPEAKER_01]: I'm Julie Kraftcheck and I'm U.A.S.U.A.U.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the psychology of relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason relationships feel so rewarding and so hard, you're turning two sets of needs, triggers and expectations into one partnership.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not just dating a person, you're dating their vulnerabilities, needs, habits, fears, and past.
[SPEAKER_01]: And beneath every smile, every fight, every silence,
[SPEAKER_01]: their psychology at work, attachment styles, emotional regulation, and communication habits shape the way we love.
[SPEAKER_01]: And today, we're diving into the psychology of relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Julie Kraftcheck.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm U.A.
[SPEAKER_00]: Xu.
[SPEAKER_00]: And over the past decade, we've been exploring modern dating through our hit podcast, Datable, in book How to Be Datable, that was published in January 2025 by Simon and Shuster.
[SPEAKER_01]: We learned how to navigate dating to find the right relationships
[SPEAKER_01]: We've talked to psychologists, social scientists, therapists, PhDs, relationship coaches, fellow authors, and podcasters, which has helped us get to where we are today, going from dating to committed partnerships.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now we want to explore the next stage.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do we take a relationship in let it withstand all the hardships and challenges and ups and downs in different seasons of our lives?
[SPEAKER_00]: Understanding the psychology behind relationships is like having a map.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't eliminate the terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're still going to have the conflict.
[SPEAKER_00]: The difference is the stress.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it helps you see the paths, the pitfalls, and the strategies for moving through them.
[SPEAKER_01]: In this episode, we're going to dive into six pillars that we believe are truly the foundations of a partnership, what they are and how you can build better habits to strengthen your relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Throughout the podcast, we'll dive into each and much more depth and detail, joined by experts in the field.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember to go to Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcast and leave us a rating and review, and better yet, leave us a comment about what you learn from this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the psychology of relationships, and you're listening to an episode that just might change the way you show up for love.
[SPEAKER_01]: Enjoy!
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the six pillars of relationships.
[SPEAKER_01]: And number one is being aware of the patterns.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone comes with patterns.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of us brand that as baggage.
[SPEAKER_01]: We like to call that patterns.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause it's not that negative.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what we've experienced in the past?
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see it in two different ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one way is just, these are things that have happened to you over and over again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that now it's ingrained in the way you carry yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And psychology really reminds you that everyone brings their history, their wounds in their needs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So understanding your partner and having that empathy for them, also understanding yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for me, that's been one of the most pivotal aspects of being at a relationship that a lot gets shined back on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, oh, this thing that I'm saying is like, a problem with my relationship actually is something that I'm carrying from my childhood into the relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then sometimes you recognize that it's not a pattern.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's a one-off that you've carried around as a pattern.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think it happens to you over and over again, making you into the victim.
[SPEAKER_01]: But your partner can clearly see, okay, actually that was a one-off.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you're just playing the victim versus like this is something that has occurred to you for a very long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of my patterns, I know for sure, is running away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ever since I was a kid, my parents would be disappointed or I would do something that I knew was bad instead of addressing it and being Communicateive with with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would run away or I would.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know tell my tell my parents that it was their fault You know that that is the best way to gaslight someone.
[SPEAKER_01]: This would be like actually you did this to me
[SPEAKER_01]: I did this because of you so that I know that's a pattern of mine because I am not great at being accountable for my actions because for so long I was not allowed to address them and think about this is why I think this topic is so important and why we need to dive into the psychology more because in past relationships it's so easy when someone does something to just be like it's over.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're done.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're broken.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't going to work out.
[SPEAKER_00]: That way.
[SPEAKER_00]: and probably your partners too, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they're just like, oh, she's being a little standoffish.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't gonna work out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like we're also quick to throw in the towel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reality is if you're gonna do life with someone and do a long-term partnership, there's gonna be times that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you heard each other at a level and I think the sticking together and working through it and that's something that I feel like has been so different in my current partnership than ever before.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, what's beneath this?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's happening here really?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is so important to heal with someone and to really, you know, work together as a unit with these patterns.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also learned that there's a difference between someone's behavior versus someone's character.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for a lot of my past relationships, I run away from someone's behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we're breaking up because you did this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was ignoring the character beneath it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So my current partnership, we actually, when we have that conversation of like, okay, I'm running away from this, we're like, I think this is done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we ask, are we breaking up with the behavior or the person?
[SPEAKER_01]: And we actually break up, we do an actual breakup with the behavior.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're no longer, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we're no longer going to tolerate this kind of behavior in a relationship, so we're gonna do a little breakup here.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're not breaking up with the person.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a huge difference, and that's really helped me both understand that I do have control and also to let go of these patterns of like running away because now I can see the difference between behavior versus character.
[SPEAKER_00]: You all know I have a mixed relationship with attachment theory, but I do think the benefit, what I like about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll start there.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I like about it is that it takes in learn behaviors from our past, from our childhood, what we grew up around.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just remember we had this episode with Mark Sholes.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a psychotherapist that we had of like why you're choosing the wrong people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And something he said like has continued to stick with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like you're not choosing the wrong people.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're choosing what's familiar.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're choosing like the learn behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like if you had a caregiver that like wasn't, you know, a tune to your needs.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it was kind of putting themselves first.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then that's the type of person you go for later in life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think this really carries over to to like how we act.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like as someone that has, you know, healed a lot of my anxious attachment.
[SPEAKER_00]: It still shows up from time to time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think a lot of times like you can look at like, okay, if someone feels like they're being clingy, can you look a little deeper into what's really happening?
[SPEAKER_00]: They learn that closeness equals safety, that that's what they need in a partnership.
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of being like, oh, this person's being clingy, can you reframe it of like, okay, how can I actually meet the need of that this person?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, also maintaining my own boundaries.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there's this great Einstein quote that I'm going to miss quote because I just read it this morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, so I'm just going to summarize something like you can't address the problem by taking the same actions that created the problem the first place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how this example plays out too.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you find the problem is someone being clingy, the answer is not to keep telling them that they're clingy and naming it as clingy,
[SPEAKER_01]: but to take a different action, it's how we should be pushing ourselves to change in every aspect of life.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't expect the same outcome if you're doing the exact same behavior to get that outcome in the verse place.
[SPEAKER_00]: And where I don't love attached with theory.
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes I feel like we just like right off someone's behavior and it doesn't give room to grow.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, oh, they're cold and dismissive.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just avoiding, you know, that's just who they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think with all of this, the understanding patterns and becoming aware of it, the idea isn't just to be like, this is who I am, but it's like, okay, now that I know, what can I do to take these little steps shift into being a better partner, being in a better relationship, doing the things that I need to for another human being.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we can't just say, like, oh, well, I don't ever want to talk about anything because, you know, I was raised to the start of the way, like, that's not going to get as very far.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think, like, one tool that has really helped me and my partner, and I know a lot of other people from our talking about this for a podcast is these relationship check-ins.
[SPEAKER_00]: because it gives that space for people to be able to share their needs and to come out with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, instead of just feeling like we need to be mine readers, we can actually take the opportunity to ask like, what do you need for me to feel supported?
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're anxious, you can say, like, I need reassurance instead of just like testing someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if you're avoidant, like, how do you start having these very small signals of availability?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, maybe it's like a quick hug before leaving for the morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't need to be grand gestures.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you can just be small.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get 1% better each day.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the first step is to understand what you're dealing with in the first place.
[SPEAKER_01]: most of relationships aren't about grand gestures.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to learn that because I had to unlearn that from the movies we've seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not about the boombox outside of your house in the rain.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is like my partner says all time.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the most memorable moments he has is when we were sort of in a conflict and I was holding onto his pinky in a yoga class.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like I still remember that as one of the most touching moments and I don't even see it as the
[SPEAKER_01]: so these small gestures mean everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is why we love talking about the psychology of relationships, because dating is about knowing who someone is in that moment in time.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've just arrived, you're a stranger.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to know how you got here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Relationship is who this person will be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you are constantly evolving with your partner and understanding who will you be tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's so exciting because the sky's a limit on finding out who someone is in the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the second pillar, and I think this is a big one, is better communication and repair.
[SPEAKER_00]: And psychology has confirmed and shows that conflict is indeed normal and what matters most is how couples repair.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for me this is a huge one because I feel like I was running from conflict for so long and I just suppressed it like I never wanted to state anything that was wrong because I didn't want a fight I equated conflict with fighting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think from doing our podcast data ball, I've really learned and we're going to definitely dive into this in a lot more depth in the psychology of relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've learned how conflict actually can bring you closer.
[SPEAKER_00]: If done the right way and it's kind of like the example you were just giving you a about like holding each other's pinky like after a disagreement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's something now that is like a memory that actually secures you as a couple.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's creating that safe space, but many of us, and I'll speak for myself, didn't grow up with that as a model.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw my parents' rupture.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not see them having constructive fights.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw them rupture and the way they would repair is my mom would try to diffuse a situation by laughing or being apologetic or being soft.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, I rejected that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, hell no, I'm never going to want to fight with a partner because I never want to bring myself into that moment of weakness just to diffuse the situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize that there's a healthier way to fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we're going to shed some light on that because I would go out on a limb and say, probably many of you have grown up with that kind of model of conflict that you, you want to avoid so much because you don't want to rupture like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the beauty of the generation or in the therapy generation, because I think it has really helped be able to communicate different styles and appreciate them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like for a long time, I didn't really have like the self-awareness to know that other people thought about things differently or navigated conflict.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you know, one person might be more direct to the other might be more reserved and it doesn't mean that like one cares more on the other cares less or, you know, like one person is always right and the other is wrong because there might be the louder voice it's really about like how do we work together and you know, get through this problem that we're facing not like that you're the problem it's collective problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, being in this together to create a safe space, we cannot say this enough, safety is probably the basis of every relationship and it is also the basis of every problem you'll have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Safety will lead to intimacy issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: Safety will lead to financial issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you lack the safety, you're going to be lacking in other areas.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this communication is what's going to create that sense of safety with each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: in a collective way that Julie was saying and making you feel like you're in this together that you're never fighting this fight by yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And misunderstandings in unspoken expectations, like when they're not addressed, that's when it becomes like a tiny molehill that becomes like a massive mountain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's when things like really just like to create the relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, you know, but share later for these relationship check-ins.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've ever for years before I was at the serious relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't understand why you have to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're always talking to your partner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I use the one that Dr. Alexander Solomon, her template for one every week.
[SPEAKER_00]: My partner and I sit down and do this for 30 minutes and you know there's what's going well in your week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like stuff just catch up and then a hot damn our compliment and then my favorite one is what's a relational growing edge.
[SPEAKER_00]: And really encourage like my partner to even say something tiny like whatever it is because the more it builds that's when it becomes like unmanageable and if you just get things out when they're small that's how you like you don't don't have them built.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was on a call with like.
[SPEAKER_01]: tea mobile customer service the other day.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I realized this is a trick they do in customer service industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're at the end of the call.
[SPEAKER_01]: They always ask, is there anything else I can help you with?
[SPEAKER_01]: And even though you feel like they've already addressed your problem, that question alone just makes you open your your aperture to what else could I possibly need help with, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you take that moment to think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's the same thing in these check-ins.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if you feel
[SPEAKER_01]: Just one question alone of like what could be going better than it opens up the way you think about the relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not finding problems, but it's really to shed light on some of the things you may have swept under the rug or repressed for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think even beyond communication, I would argue the number one thing that you need in a relationship is repair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you can voice all the concerns and the challenges, but how do you get your relationship back to a place where you both feel loved and supported?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: the good stuff that comes with a relationship, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you don't want to always be in these heavy conversations.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember doing couples therapy and the therapist really like honing in on repair.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like it wasn't something I'd heard as much as like a stand alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was always kind of grouped in with communication, or maybe I didn't have like the verbage around it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it like it almost deserves so much attention because I still like recall this one time that it was like a little
[SPEAKER_00]: session and then we were able to really repair it and then like continue on and go out for the night and have like one of the most incredible date nights after something kind of heavy and I think the fact that we were able to we didn't just like brush it under the rug and be like okay let's just go ahead and pretend it didn't happen like we worked through it but then got to a place that we're like okay you know we're moving forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to like keep harping on this either.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And repairing is different than make up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been talking about make up, right, in terms of like make up sex and like you're making it so hot when you make up because making up just means you're ignoring avoiding.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, okay, let's just move forward like this never happened repairing is addressing and also addressing what you're going to do with it, moving forward.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have a plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Making up is completely just in the moment of like, nope, we're deboshing this for now, but it'll definitely come up again next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're gonna dive into more about Gotman's research.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might have heard of the soft start-up instead of an attack or to catch up here on temps like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we reset?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or can we pause and try again?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I don't like how this is going.
[SPEAKER_00]: I care about us.
[SPEAKER_00]: That came out wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me restate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like anything that can help like move it along.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, make it feel like more of a team pushing through whatever challenge there is.
[SPEAKER_01]: The third pillar would be emotional regulation and support.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: for very much biological reasons are brain switches to that fight or flight mode during any sort of conflict and it's so easy to just shut down or to rupture as very normal.
[SPEAKER_01]: But how do we also take accountability for our reaction in that moment and emotionally regulate, which is probably something many of us find challenging because even as kids you're just taught to rupture
[SPEAKER_01]: Mommy, would you mind giving me some milk today?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, talking to a British accent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I'm British when I'm a baby, but it's like, I was a British baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you know that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Mommy, would you mind, but first, you know, your taught as a kid to scream and yell, to get attention, to get the things that you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't do that in a relationship as adults.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we had to learn that when we were adults.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the reality, too, is of course you have to find your own happiness within yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's a given.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And regulate your own emotions.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the reality, too, though, is that we do need emotional responsiveness from our partners.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's usually why we're in a relationship to be good with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think to go as far as being like, well, I own all my emotions.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like dismissing what the beauty of partnership is to have someone there to support you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're not saying, like, don't do your own work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to be
[SPEAKER_00]: benefit the relationship, but it's also important for you as partners to understand this psychology and understanding of what emotional regulation means that you can work together and get yourselves to a place that you're feeling closeness because ultimately that's what really makes relationships thrive.
[SPEAKER_01]: a laugh because my partner is very much uh stoic when it comes to things that he doesn't care about like gossip so whenever I do deliver some news to him and he's just like no expression I'm like come on just fake something fake like bright eyed and like you know it just fake some like oh my god
[SPEAKER_01]: So he does that now just for me, but you know, this is a very rudimentary example.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yes, having that relational emotional regulation and we can emotionally regulate better in a relationship than if we're on our own, just like how our frequencies will match up.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you say, oh, we're vibing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like when your frequencies are matching up, then you're able to regulate each other better.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is actually such a great tool.
[SPEAKER_01]: for a couple to really hone in on because you don't have to do it alone anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and Sue Johnson, the author of Hullby Tite, and co-founder of emotionally focused therapy, she's shared that the deepest relationship question is, are you there for me?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I found that like so profound because really at the end of the day that is what we're looking for in a partner, someone that is there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So her whole thing was this emotional responsiveness R-A-R-E accessible, responsive, engaged, so accessible can I reach you, responsive, you notice and care about my needs and engaged your present and invested.
[SPEAKER_00]: So an example would be like accessible, you're going to put away your phone during your 15-minute check-in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Responsive when your partner's size instead of ignoring it, you ask, like if it was a hard day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, engaged, you share the daily high-in-low moments that you're emotionally caught up with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this sounds like elementary, but I do think as stressors come in and other parts of life happen, it is easy to take this for granted.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really important to continue to do this work on a daily basis.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is all to show you how important presence is in a relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the steps to be present in any situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've been on
[SPEAKER_01]: calls with people who want help or they want to tell us something and then we would go into kind of like what we think is going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: We give them advice and then the takeaway from certain people is just so off from what we were trying to tell them and I've seen this in relationships my previous relationship as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think someone's there, someone's present, someone's listening, but they're just taking away what they want to hear or taking away what they think they heard.
[SPEAKER_01]: being very clearly present for your partner following the R-step will help you really hear what they're trying to say, not what you think they're trying to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this, I think, really goes into the art fourth pillar, reciprocity and appreciation, which is really teamwork at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, being a team, to me, this is so foundational to partnership, and this is really like the small things like picking a new TV show together to the big decisions like money and family dynamics at household roles,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we go in as like a wee we face the world together, that's so different and fundamental than when I do this or you do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's really where relationships are road when this teamwork is not present.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's probably the most difficult transition from being single to being in a relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's turning the eye into a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Julie's example of bringing one fork and some two forks to the dinner table.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my example of making all my travel plans for the year without ever telling my partner.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he is like, what, you're leaving the next week?
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: So going from that to now sharing a calendar was a huge step for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: but that is so worth the pause and the conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, you are just two people living separate lives and not involving each other or integrating each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sadly, I've seen this in relationships of friends that have been together for decades.
[SPEAKER_00]: that baby it starts off more we and it erodes after time and again this is why relationships are a constant effort that's being put into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think especially like when the chores start to build up or the responsibilities of parenting and all the things that happen it can feel like one person is doing everything and instead of talking about it a lot of resentment builds and
[SPEAKER_00]: 80, 80 we believe of relationships when one person feels like they are carrying all the reach.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is, you know, the downfall.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when that appreciation is in shown too, like even like a simple thank you for doing laundry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know it's not fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: That goes such a long way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I understand for all the mavericks out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: to understand this concept sometimes, because you're taught like, don't lose yourself in relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to be really strong in who you are in your identity, and that almost feels like this is the counter to that, and it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's when you're in a collaborative partnership that's loving and supportive, you are more empowered.
[SPEAKER_01]: to be more of an individual and lean into your identity.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you're selfish and only do the things that you want to do, only take care of your needs, that's when you start feeling threatened in your independence, because you're only thinking about yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: So learning from this the hard way,
[SPEAKER_01]: and you can take it from me, Mavericks.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you lean into the way the 8080, you get more of that me through it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it really all comes back to like social exchange in equity theories where we subconsciously weigh the cost versus rewards in relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if it feels like you're pulling all the weight and doing everything and you don't have a partner that's appreciative and there for you, that's when satisfaction drops.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, it goes back to where I was saying earlier of like, how do you get ahead of this stuff before it builds into this massive mountain that you can't come back from?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when the divorce happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when the marital dissatisfaction happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is why like it's so important to like take notice of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: speaking to myself as a newly married person too that you don't want to take people for granted, you know, like fairness and reciprocity is what keeps relationships stable and going.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you all are interested because I'd be interested, we will do an episode on equity in a relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is so fascinating to me because me taking out the trash might seem like such a chore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if my partner doesn't do it, I'm like, it's such an unfair relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to take out the trash.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my partner could see taking out the trash as nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So to him, he's like, this is very equal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got you can take out the trash.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can do it once a big deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the idea of equity is not what you're doing, is how you view the things that you're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you say that and I think it brings us into the fifth one, two of managing expectations and developing growth mindset because like expectations are kind of like what kills us, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if we go in with the mindset that like, you know, I'm supposed to do this and they're supposed to do this and we're not working together and also like what happens early in a relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like is it what's necessarily what is needed later for that
[SPEAKER_01]: Now what you develop, that's why dating and relationships are quite different.
[SPEAKER_01]: What you're looking for in dating someone is not everything that's going to sustain a relationship and caring those expectations of like couples who've been together for 10 years being like, remember we were so in love in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just unfair, that's unrealistic because your relationship has evolved out of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So coming in to a relationship, knowing you're going to grow, knowing that the chemistry is going to change and everything is going to evolve, that's what's going to set you up for success.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think also like research shows that no partner is going to meet all your needs and that's why like family and friends and self care and all the other relationships in our lives are really important and should not be like just the room to the wayside out that we have a partner and I think finding that rhythm between me and we is always tricky too of like how do I maintain myself and my own independence.
[SPEAKER_00]: but also togetherness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, one person might want, close this, and the other person needs the space.
[SPEAKER_00]: But how do you do it in a way that you honor yourself?
[SPEAKER_00]: But also honor the relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's always just renegotiating.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm constantly in a state of renegotiating.
[SPEAKER_01]: My needs, their needs, because your needs are going to change too.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I wanted six months ago is so not what I need right now, but if my partner is still expecting my needs to be the same six months ago, he's going to be addressing something completely off.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is also our responsibility to keep communicating every negotiating.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why knowing your own needs, it gonna goes back to your own patterns and awareness is so pivotal because that's the only way that you continue to allow this growth to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think having this growth mindset in relationship versus a destiny mindset, so I love this distinction.
[SPEAKER_00]: The growth mindset is seeing relationships as evolving and requiring effort, where destiny mindset is love as meant to be,
[SPEAKER_00]: So, like, it's just meant to be that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: It happened that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, like, if there's conflict, it's failure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then knowing when it's, you, you still have more effort to give.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when it's, you're grown out of this relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: You reach capacity of this relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's also a destiny mindset we want to avoid.
[SPEAKER_01]: because some people just go, well, we're destined to be together.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even if this sucks, we're just going to power through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: How many marriages have power through and endured for decades because they felt that way?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, having this growth mindset is you can both understand a certain point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you go, we've both grown out of this relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Either we find a new iteration or we depart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think finding the new iteration, it's like, of course, the growth mindset that you're having intimacy struggles.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's recognizing this might not be forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just had children.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the intimacy is not happening as often as it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can be a phase.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean it's how it is forever now.
[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, though, it doesn't mean that just acknowledging it is enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the new work in new ways of
[SPEAKER_00]: state.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's so hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's why the check-ins I think are still so important and looking at the issue as osteoversus the issue versus be versus you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and knowing what's mine and what's yours sometimes I may be feeling I'm the type person just absorbs other people's problems and energies and I need to just put a
[SPEAKER_00]: I know one thing that drives my partner crazy is my phone usage.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's embraced that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I was going to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: As they say, there's a couple of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think one piece is like, I'm like, okay, I can, I mean, not be like all of a sudden able to put away my phone completely, but I start baby steps like, okay, a dinner.
[SPEAKER_00]: not going to have my phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then like you said, you just officiated my wedding, so she knows this part.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was saying how like he actually sees like me on my phone as fostering relationships with friends and building like social plans for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's, oh, it's again like having empathy, I think maybe for the other person a little and understanding them and not just assuming like, oh, they're doing something to ignore me, but also for me, it's not like enough to just be like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, well, because everybody brings in their patterns that we talked about and you can say that that's malicious or like this person's doing it to piss me off or you can just say they're springing their pattern and I'm going to interrupt the pattern because they don't know that they have this pattern and think ultimately the sixth pillar that we believe is so foundational that we want to dive into is this creating shared meaning and connection.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really feel like without this, like a relationship cannot flourish, so it's like having this a lot of research that backs us up of like couples that create a shared story of us are more resilient like we go through hard times together instead of like you did this or I did this and having these rituals of connection and this can be like the small daily moment to you know activities that you do together on a weekly or monthly basis.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are so looking forward to expanding more on that because there's so many great ideas of just really simple ways of creating the shared culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when people and like the question I always ask is, how do you want to leave the people you come across as a couple?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like how do you want to leave them?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want them to leave thinking what a awesome couple that we just encountered and I'm energized and I'm feeling positive?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or you want to feel them to feel drained or
[SPEAKER_01]: stress to like that is the culture you want to create so you can leave other people at the same feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the things early on that my partner and I did that actually really set a foundation is we had a shared Google keep of all these like activities we wanted to do and like there could be like a bigger dream or aspiration to like a travel destination or
[SPEAKER_00]: getting a dog was on the list and like we haven't even checked off all of them but even at the beginning it was just like date ideas and like things we wanted to do but it made it feel like we were like a unit like we were doing things together building rituals and inside jokes and traditions and that's what really like strengthens the partnership so I think people can you know take away like small ideas from this but we'll certainly dive into episodes that really go deeper because
[SPEAKER_00]: story even early dating all the way to like years and years into a marriage, it's always important.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's such good information.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could be sharing your dreams a couple who dreams together will stay together, but you could be sharing dreams that may not be your
[SPEAKER_01]: partner's dream like I think earlier on my partner's like my dream is to live in the mountains and like fuck that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not my dream.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it opened up the conversation of why that is your dream.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that you can start this conversation at any point in your relationship because it's all living in our heads and we just assume our partners share similar dreams but maybe they don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and then you can be like, okay, is there a iteration of the dream that would work for me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is that a solo dream that you can go off to do yourself?
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That you live in the mountains Monday through Wednesday.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think the Gottman's turning toward and positivity ratio are two things that listeners can take away today.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the turning toward is like when your partner points something
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, look at that sunset, instead of responding with silence, you have interest, like it's, you know, all those little bid for connection, it's gestures for attention or affection or help, like it's so important to hone into these and to be there present again for the person in your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the positivity ratios aiming for five positive interactions for everyone criticism or complaint, I feel like we can do this with our parents as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: is every relationship in our life forever, every relationship because of course you're gonna come upon negative circumstances but for that one negative experience try to offset that with five positive ones like a hug or an inside joke or a nice dinner or a compliment always keeping the ratio of positive in the upper number.
[SPEAKER_00]: This one's so important because this is what again makes you feel like you have that shared meeting and connection because if you feel like you're always criticized by someone, that relationship is going to road real fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, of course, we're just hitting the surface here.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are so excited to dive in with all of you every week as we release a new episode that is us talking to an expert in the field about
[SPEAKER_00]: one of these six pillars and even beyond of how do we continue to learn, develop, and grow, and maintain the best relationships possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you haven't done so yet, subscribe to The Psychology of Relationships today, so you don't miss an episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll see you all next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye!