WEBVTT 00:02.309 --> 00:04.832 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey friends, welcome to the Christian Parenting Podcast. 00:04.872 --> 00:08.015 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host, Steph Thirling, and thank you so much for being here. 00:08.075 --> 00:12.459 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a podcast where we give you tools and encouragement to raise your kids in the Christian faith. 00:12.880 --> 00:20.507 [SPEAKER_01]: And today's conversation is a really important topic, but something that a lot of families and a lot of moms carry quietly, which is waiting for a child. 00:21.008 --> 00:31.438 [SPEAKER_01]: My guest, Alice Madagora, she is a wife, a mom and a missionary with the navigators, and she knows firsthand what it's like to walk through years of infertility and find hope in the middle of waiting. 00:31.418 --> 00:39.249 [SPEAKER_01]: She shares her story so beautifully reminding us that God sees us even when we feel on scene, and that his timing is never wasted. 00:39.670 --> 00:52.529 [SPEAKER_01]: So whether you're in a season of waiting for a child, or you have walked through infertility, or you just want to show support to somebody that you love who is walking that journey, this episode will encourage you to hold on to hope and trust God's heart. 00:52.669 --> 00:55.333 [SPEAKER_01]: I really hope that you love it and you find it helpful. 01:01.355 --> 01:02.758 [SPEAKER_01]: parenting podcast. 01:02.778 --> 01:14.420 [SPEAKER_01]: We started talking a little bit before we recorded about the joys of parenting and all the funny stories that come along with kids sneaking into that millenine and, you know, the adventures of it all. 01:14.440 --> 01:17.245 [SPEAKER_01]: The love, love, frustration relationship. 01:17.265 --> 01:23.818 [SPEAKER_01]: How it is wonderful to be the safe place for our kids, but sometimes it would be great if it wasn't at three in the morning, so we could sleep through the night. 01:23.798 --> 01:32.994 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or if it wasn't horizontally in between you and your husband with, I mean, whoever gets the feet and it's going to be a rough slide. 01:33.014 --> 01:41.308 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope everyone who's listening got a solid night sleep blessing, but as a parenting podcast, I feel like I didn't know it's 50 50 for sure. 01:42.831 --> 01:44.895 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, well, we are not talking about sleep challenges today. 01:45.015 --> 01:47.359 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, we are talking about. 01:47.980 --> 01:53.513 [SPEAKER_01]: what like waiting for a child, diving a little bit into infertility and the hope that we have in Jesus. 01:53.573 --> 01:57.783 [SPEAKER_01]: But before we do begin with that topic, I want to get to know you a little bit. 01:57.883 --> 02:00.008 [SPEAKER_01]: So tell us about the kids that wake you up in Melonite. 02:00.369 --> 02:02.394 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us what you do, give us a little of your story. 02:02.494 --> 02:02.935 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 02:03.134 --> 02:07.784 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so my husband and I, we have been married for 17 and a half years. 02:07.964 --> 02:12.153 [SPEAKER_00]: We live in Orange County, California and we are both work as full-time missionaries. 02:12.393 --> 02:15.279 [SPEAKER_00]: We work with the group called the Navigators and Disciple Making Ministry. 02:15.500 --> 02:18.486 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a six-year-old son named Reggie. 02:18.606 --> 02:23.877 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a junior, so my husband is RJ, so he's my son is RJJR. 02:23.857 --> 02:25.539 [SPEAKER_00]: original James Jun. 02:25.619 --> 02:34.230 [SPEAKER_00]: He's six years old and then my Clemensine, my darling Clemensine is three years old and both of them are such a joy and a delight. 02:34.390 --> 02:41.178 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you do the math, you know, we've been married for almost 18 years and my oldest is six. 02:41.458 --> 02:45.443 [SPEAKER_00]: So we spent about 11 of our years of being married. 02:45.862 --> 02:47.684 [SPEAKER_00]: completely childless with our dog. 02:47.705 --> 02:51.129 [SPEAKER_00]: We had 10 years with our dog, but other than that, no kids. 02:51.169 --> 02:58.780 [SPEAKER_00]: So we waited quite a bit before or the Lord actually, he made us wait quite a bit before having our own kids. 02:58.800 --> 03:00.822 [SPEAKER_00]: We went through infertility for a good story. 03:00.862 --> 03:07.932 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us a little bit about that story, what it was like to wait and what kind of led you to talking about waiting for a child. 03:08.152 --> 03:08.713 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 03:08.693 --> 03:21.618 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, you know, at first, I, I have probably always been more career-minded, you know, so like wait until I'm a licensed immersion family therapist, so I went to school to get my degree in managing family therapy. 03:21.638 --> 03:26.728 [SPEAKER_00]: I practiced, got all my hours, for licencers like 3,000 hours practicing hours. 03:26.909 --> 03:28.592 [SPEAKER_00]: And so like we kind of timed, 03:28.572 --> 03:46.075 [SPEAKER_00]: Starting to have kids around the time that I would be done accumulating my hours for licensure because like I would I want to get the career down first before, you know, we we bring kids into the mix and then we started trying to have kids and it turns out it's not just like once you start trying you can have them right away. 03:46.055 --> 03:51.686 [SPEAKER_00]: So we started trying we tried for a year or two, then it was like, well, this is kind of weird. 03:51.706 --> 03:53.931 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like maybe it should have happened to by now. 03:53.991 --> 04:00.203 [SPEAKER_00]: We were charting temperatures, charting all the fluids and everything like that and still no baby. 04:00.223 --> 04:02.528 [SPEAKER_00]: So then we started seeking out. 04:02.727 --> 04:23.520 [SPEAKER_00]: testing to see if there's anything wrong and we got the frustrating diagnosis of unexplained infertility which means we don't know what's wrong you guys are perfectly healthy there's no reason why you shouldn't be having babies it's just unexplained which I I feel like in some case I mean I think for me I would just rather know a hundred percent happen 04:23.500 --> 04:28.549 [SPEAKER_00]: cut your losses now, grieve it, move on, go for a different place. 04:28.569 --> 04:34.739 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, but I think it's that unexplained infertility of sitting in the unknown, then maybe it will, maybe it won't. 04:34.799 --> 04:39.788 [SPEAKER_00]: That is the most crazy making, but that's also the heat where... 04:39.768 --> 05:01.911 [SPEAKER_00]: God meets with us and we have to turn to him and we have to rely on him in all things So then we start pursuing different infertility treatments like IUIs we did four IUIs with all of the meds that make your hormones crazy and then shots and and all that stuff and after four IUIs still no baby so that point we I think 05:02.178 --> 05:10.129 [SPEAKER_00]: we realized, I think, our only chance to have biological children is through IVF but we're at full-time ministry. 05:10.169 --> 05:18.141 [SPEAKER_00]: I just left my full-time job as a therapist and I left my benefits which cover more infertility treatments than, so, God, what do we do? 05:18.501 --> 05:19.883 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we, how do we, 05:19.863 --> 05:27.538 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we feel like you are calling us to keep hoping for biological kids, which is always such a struggle, right? 05:27.578 --> 05:40.183 [SPEAKER_00]: It feels like foolishness after seven years to keep hoping and waiting for biological children But I really had a sense from the Lord that he was going to give us biological children at some point 05:40.163 --> 05:45.291 [SPEAKER_00]: And then this is like a crazy miraculous story, and I noticed such a gift. 05:45.351 --> 05:48.615 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't happen to everybody, but we are praying about what to do. 05:48.836 --> 05:51.700 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, as do I go back to being a therapist, making more money? 05:52.081 --> 05:57.889 [SPEAKER_00]: I was speaking at a navigator event, and we met this man, just the kindest stranger who heard our story. 05:57.949 --> 05:58.510 [SPEAKER_00]: He, 05:58.810 --> 06:00.532 [SPEAKER_00]: had such deep compassion on us. 06:00.572 --> 06:02.936 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he gave us 20,000, no excuse. 06:03.236 --> 06:05.539 [SPEAKER_00]: IVF, which is like, I know. 06:05.840 --> 06:07.162 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's like, what are those? 06:07.442 --> 06:10.246 [SPEAKER_00]: This is like, the news to other people. 06:10.306 --> 06:12.449 [SPEAKER_00]: This doesn't happen to people like me, you know? 06:12.469 --> 06:17.997 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, and yet still, it was still like, just because we're doing IVF. 06:18.658 --> 06:24.085 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it might increase our chances of getting pregnant, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we're still gonna get pregnant. 06:24.105 --> 06:28.311 [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much along the way that could go wrong, 06:28.291 --> 06:37.672 [SPEAKER_00]: not work, or I could have no good eggs, or we could have no embryos, or we could have no healthy embryos, or we could have, like, my uterine lining was an issue. 06:37.732 --> 06:38.594 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it thick enough? 06:38.634 --> 06:40.638 [SPEAKER_00]: Does it have that triple full, you know? 06:40.779 --> 06:46.772 [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's so many things like go wrong along the way, but God was so gracious to us. 06:46.752 --> 06:54.104 [SPEAKER_00]: and it worked the first and second time with Reggie, then Clementine, it worked by the grace of God. 06:54.164 --> 07:05.301 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think going through all those treatments really highlighted for me all of the ways that all the things that could go wrong at any point along the way to having a baby, 07:05.281 --> 07:09.610 [SPEAKER_00]: and just like what a miracle it is that anybody's alive. 07:10.011 --> 07:17.346 [SPEAKER_00]: What a miracle it is that we are walking around breathing that nothing is wrong with most people who we see walking around the earth. 07:17.366 --> 07:18.308 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's a miracle. 07:18.328 --> 07:20.833 [SPEAKER_00]: There's so much that I could go wrong along the way. 07:20.893 --> 07:22.597 [SPEAKER_00]: Like how are we existing? 07:22.637 --> 07:26.665 [SPEAKER_00]: God is incredible as creator and sustainer of life. 07:26.645 --> 07:30.150 [SPEAKER_00]: to allow us to keep walking around into, to breathe the life. 07:30.270 --> 07:42.729 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know a little bit about your faith through this process, because I know obviously you're working in ministry, like you are, you're talking, as you're sharing your story, you're talking about how God was faithful and how you were in a relationship with him. 07:42.749 --> 07:49.919 [SPEAKER_01]: But like how did this experience of walking through and fertility of waiting, of testing, kind of change your faith? 07:50.480 --> 07:56.449 [SPEAKER_01]: Either maybe temporarily kind of negative and then positive, 07:58.117 --> 07:58.578 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 07:59.299 --> 08:02.325 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I was in a rough season. 08:02.365 --> 08:05.912 [SPEAKER_00]: I won when we first started and going through infertility treatments. 08:06.293 --> 08:10.561 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was in a state of denial and how much I wanted kids. 08:10.821 --> 08:11.282 [SPEAKER_00]: I had 08:11.498 --> 08:14.882 [SPEAKER_00]: maybe internalized a lot of these lies about what kids would do. 08:14.902 --> 08:24.512 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think when we started having or trying to have kids, it was more, well, I'm about that 30 mid 30, like early 30s age and it's about time. 08:24.552 --> 08:27.995 [SPEAKER_00]: It was more that than it was like, I really, really, really want kids. 08:28.396 --> 08:39.227 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that there might be some generational lies around children and what it delight they are and how beloved they are and what a blessing they are. 08:39.663 --> 09:06.666 [SPEAKER_00]: That that may have come through my family where I noticed I would have these like things with my these little spats with my husband Where it's like well, I mean that's easy for you to say your career is intact after you know We have kid my my life's gonna end after having kids my body is gonna like go to crap After having kids, you know all these lies about like everything's gonna end for me You get to keep having the fun as the guy which is so silly because he's always been a 09:06.646 --> 09:09.209 [SPEAKER_00]: a very invested and engaged partner. 09:09.289 --> 09:10.771 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, where would that come from? 09:11.111 --> 09:19.380 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think through the season of infertility going in, first kind of in this weird spot of denial and not wanting to have kids. 09:19.460 --> 09:24.666 [SPEAKER_00]: I think God really drew out of my heart the longer it was that I do want kids. 09:25.187 --> 09:27.549 [SPEAKER_00]: And so then where are all of these lies coming from? 09:27.630 --> 09:35.218 [SPEAKER_00]: Where is the lie that the children will ruin everything? 09:35.418 --> 09:36.359 [SPEAKER_00]: what's that coming from? 09:36.399 --> 09:49.635 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's when like God was able to expose those for what they are, which is just straight up lies from the enemy, lies from our culture, lies from family of origin, even about my identity. 09:49.816 --> 09:58.707 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I carried about me, I grew into my parents' marriage, I grew into my parents, you know, my mom's, but I grew into my mom's career, you know, because I was born. 09:58.727 --> 10:01.510 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think God used infertility, 10:02.131 --> 10:10.204 [SPEAKER_00]: to draw me closer to, I mean, he really used it to break me and to expose all of these lies and lead me into a big art. 10:10.264 --> 10:11.807 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm in this completely broken place. 10:11.827 --> 10:16.514 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nowhere else I can turn, but you, like if anything is gonna happen, it's gonna be you. 10:16.714 --> 10:19.539 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was a place of desperation that we had. 10:19.840 --> 10:22.183 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm really glad that we were talking about this today. 10:22.263 --> 10:26.991 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like when I was younger, newly married, having kids, 10:28.473 --> 10:33.842 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think when you're younger, you just don't even realize how much infertility is an issue. 10:34.022 --> 10:41.714 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, like when I, like my friends and I, and we got more emotional, like as we were getting married, it never dawned on me that any of my friends would have an issue getting pregnant. 10:42.075 --> 10:45.961 [SPEAKER_01]: It never dawned on me that I could, or my family members, my cousins would. 10:46.021 --> 10:48.645 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just think it's not something maybe more now. 10:49.086 --> 10:50.708 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that was a long time ago. 10:50.829 --> 10:53.653 [SPEAKER_01]: But more now, I think people are talking about it, but yeah. 10:53.633 --> 10:54.836 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember. 10:54.876 --> 10:56.781 [SPEAKER_01]: My parents talking about infertility. 10:56.901 --> 11:09.634 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't remember this being that much of a topic, especially in Christian circles Because I think it's really easy to just say like, oh well, God's faithful, you know, he's building your family and those are all fine things to say But they're not overly helpful 11:10.424 --> 11:20.493 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's so important to talk about because there are a lot of people who are waiting to have a child whether that comes from naturally just conceiving in fertility treatments, who are adopting. 11:20.593 --> 11:22.475 [SPEAKER_01]: So what are some truths? 11:22.495 --> 11:25.958 [SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about the lies that you believe, like what are some truths that you want? 11:26.339 --> 11:28.801 [SPEAKER_01]: People to know where may be waiting for a baby. 11:30.723 --> 11:36.848 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that God loves you so much and that He is the God who sees. 11:36.948 --> 11:37.849 [SPEAKER_00]: He was the God. 11:38.150 --> 11:45.002 [SPEAKER_00]: who saw the slave girl, Hagar, who had been discarded and wrongly sent out by her mistress. 11:45.062 --> 11:46.365 [SPEAKER_00]: He's the god who saw it. 11:46.525 --> 11:50.512 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, she wasn't even an Israelite and God saw her elroy. 11:50.552 --> 11:52.155 [SPEAKER_00]: You are the god who sees me. 11:52.215 --> 11:53.497 [SPEAKER_00]: He sees your pain. 11:53.558 --> 11:54.960 [SPEAKER_00]: He sees where you're at. 11:55.177 --> 11:59.666 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, and I think that he's worth trusting. 11:59.887 --> 12:02.552 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's maddening at the same time, you know? 12:02.612 --> 12:05.217 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, and he can take all of our feelings. 12:05.317 --> 12:07.502 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he can take all of our raw emotions. 12:07.542 --> 12:10.047 [SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes I feel like I need to have a sanitized. 12:10.448 --> 12:28.931 [SPEAKER_00]: version of engaging with God, you know like what I really want to say or all the swears that but like I feel like since it's before the Lord I just have to be like but I trust you God and we can it's good to get to that place but God can take us in our most raw upset, vulnerable space and he wants that from us. 12:29.212 --> 12:32.676 [SPEAKER_00]: He wants us to rise like a real authentic relationship. 12:32.808 --> 12:33.870 [SPEAKER_01]: because like he said, he can take it. 12:34.892 --> 12:35.132 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. 12:35.152 --> 12:35.312 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:35.693 --> 12:35.873 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 12:36.174 --> 12:37.155 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely. 12:37.436 --> 12:39.760 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that's what the seven years did it. 12:39.880 --> 12:43.266 [SPEAKER_00]: Just like, took away, like, I can't hide behind my career anymore. 12:43.286 --> 12:46.812 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't hide behind, you know, the polished exterior. 12:46.852 --> 12:48.515 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just down to, I want something. 12:48.695 --> 12:51.781 [SPEAKER_00]: And nothing I am doing is getting it, you know? 12:52.081 --> 12:54.545 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, like, I can't fake it anymore, God. 12:54.586 --> 12:56.048 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, he didn't let me keep 12:56.028 --> 12:56.629 [SPEAKER_00]: baking. 12:56.869 --> 12:57.230 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm okay. 12:57.250 --> 12:58.051 [SPEAKER_00]: Things are fine. 12:58.091 --> 12:59.373 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll happen when it happens. 12:59.453 --> 13:03.418 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he really drew out the pain because he wanted me. 13:03.879 --> 13:11.429 [SPEAKER_00]: He wanted to minister to me in the pain and the longing that we hide underneath the other stuff, which is so hard to see when you're going through it. 13:12.070 --> 13:19.200 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and we know like God redeems all that he allows, but like waiting for that to happen and seeing his big plan is. 13:19.282 --> 13:33.763 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not not great and it's really not all the time sometimes it is but the waiting is not necessarily great and I don't want to also address how I actually have like a very 13:33.828 --> 13:36.352 [SPEAKER_01]: I remember calling one of my friends to tell you that I was pregnant. 13:36.512 --> 13:37.694 [SPEAKER_01]: This is like such a strong memory. 13:37.734 --> 13:42.282 [SPEAKER_01]: I have since apologized to her because again, I was just naive that I didn't realize people were struggling. 13:42.602 --> 13:53.440 [SPEAKER_01]: But I called one of my college friends, but I'm pregnant and just completely kind of like, whoa, we weren't really trying, but it happened and I'm really surprised and just went off on this whole spiel. 13:53.723 --> 13:58.148 [SPEAKER_01]: not really isn't like she had just been this carried and our due dates were supposed to be the exact same. 13:58.728 --> 14:02.973 [SPEAKER_01]: And she was like, you didn't know how are you supposed to know it is okay. 14:03.033 --> 14:04.014 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't feel bad for it. 14:04.034 --> 14:05.175 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think about it a lot. 14:05.595 --> 14:08.939 [SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't have that sensitivity in me because I would just was not aware. 14:08.959 --> 14:11.982 [SPEAKER_01]: I have so many times people don't. 14:12.002 --> 14:22.853 [SPEAKER_01]: So what do you think that we can do as individuals and also as like church communities, 14:22.934 --> 14:39.870 [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, well, I mean, I think, you know, as a friend, you know, I've, I've heard and received so many pregnancy announcements in the seven years and and I think number one don't let are my longing stifle your joy. 14:39.950 --> 14:44.915 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I want to be so overjoyed with, I am so overjoyed with. 14:44.935 --> 14:50.460 [SPEAKER_00]: It's one of those like tensions that both and where I am so overjoyed with you and 14:50.440 --> 15:12.077 [SPEAKER_00]: for you and I'm celebrating with you and it's something that I really really want you know and so I think I mean that's the one that I don't ever want my friends to feel like they need to hide their joy for me or minimize their joy and and also recognize that there might be times where it is a little tender for me and it's not about you and 15:12.057 --> 15:13.700 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to take away from every member. 15:13.800 --> 15:15.703 [SPEAKER_00]: I was at a baby shower for a friend. 15:15.903 --> 15:23.456 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was not expecting this at all, but as her mom was praying over her at the end, I was supposed to close and prayer. 15:23.516 --> 15:24.999 [SPEAKER_00]: I was one of the hostesses. 15:25.640 --> 15:32.672 [SPEAKER_00]: And as her mom was praying over the miracle of this like beautiful life in her, I started crying uncontrollably. 15:32.792 --> 15:35.196 [SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't, I was a wreck. 15:35.176 --> 15:44.511 [SPEAKER_00]: for them because it just hit at this unmet longing in me and it knocked me out of my, I was not expecting to be hit. 15:44.531 --> 16:00.677 [SPEAKER_00]: Like this, so there are those unexpected moments of grief that pop up and so I think for friends who are ministering to friends who maybe go through and fertility or miscarriage or infant loss just like be aware of the tender moments and just be with, you know, you don't need to fix it or 16:00.657 --> 16:08.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Or minimize your joy just just be with in the pain and in the longing so I mean I felt so bad. 16:08.111 --> 16:15.906 [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like I was like taking away from my friends like joyful first Baby shower with my pain, but that just happened so unexpected. 16:15.926 --> 16:22.699 [SPEAKER_00]: So like I got my sister in law to pray instead of me and and I think just the compassion that I 16:23.135 --> 16:25.181 [SPEAKER_00]: felt from the people around me. 16:25.221 --> 16:27.067 [SPEAKER_00]: It was just so, so gracious. 16:27.127 --> 16:33.185 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I had a covering around me and then others could minister to my friend who was like the mom who was being celebrated. 16:33.607 --> 16:36.756 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think there is an aspect of also being mindful of what we say. 16:37.259 --> 17:01.815 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, how we engage with those, I don't know how many times people have heard people say, like, you know, like, yeah, we got pregnant like so fast, you know, some people like have trouble getting pregnant and it's like, yep, that's me, you know, and so I think just being mindful we can just leave it at like, you know, like it's great, they say we weren't expecting it that's awesome that's awesome that you know, and that's okay to share I just think 17:01.795 --> 17:14.881 [SPEAKER_00]: taking it the step further is like you know some people like just kidding you know you you had just might have no idea who you're talking to and if they are someone who is taking a longer time to get pregnant. 17:15.182 --> 17:15.282 [UNKNOWN]: Yeah. 17:15.582 --> 17:18.005 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just being that mindfulness, I think. 17:18.025 --> 17:24.334 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's such a good reminder because it sounds so simple, but I think sometimes we get awkward or, and then we just like freeze or do something. 17:24.354 --> 17:27.118 [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, I don't know, at any time anyone's hurting. 17:27.238 --> 17:31.664 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, even when you're talking about what my dad is saying, you're kind of like, no, what do I do? 17:31.884 --> 17:36.270 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, so, just that, yeah, like we get weird and then we don't engage. 17:36.290 --> 17:40.476 [SPEAKER_01]: So just their reminder to be present, I think, is so good. 17:40.675 --> 17:57.908 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, and I think also, like for my friends who there were a couple of friends who were also walking through fertility when I got pregnant and And one of them was so gracious to help throw my baby shower in and so I had to back to back showers and she's like, if it's all right, I'm not going to go to the first one. 17:58.048 --> 17:59.792 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it just feels like it's too much right here. 17:59.812 --> 18:03.679 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, yes, absolutely get you know, and so like, 18:04.013 --> 18:12.471 [SPEAKER_00]: do what yeah like give your friends who are walking through this hardship if you know about it like the space to kind of. 18:12.738 --> 18:15.482 [SPEAKER_00]: get on their two feet just in finding out. 18:15.562 --> 18:31.946 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I just, you know, I would tell people or people would tell me in private or they would tell me over like text or even if I were at like, hey, like I am pregnant or just not around other people so that I could like process my own and get on a steady. 18:32.346 --> 18:35.691 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, just so I'm not caught off guard in front of. 18:35.671 --> 18:37.974 [SPEAKER_00]: everybody into like processing these big things. 18:38.114 --> 18:42.299 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, maybe you don't need to hear the coming to a passive approach with everyone else. 18:43.360 --> 18:43.660 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:43.780 --> 18:44.061 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:45.122 --> 18:45.402 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:45.422 --> 18:46.183 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:46.203 --> 18:46.503 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 18:46.524 --> 18:55.634 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you kind of talked a little bit or alluded to this just like how much you are amazed at the miracle of life and how it's so fragile. 18:55.694 --> 19:05.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Like truly we I think we forget how like intimately God like really 19:05.185 --> 19:10.471 [SPEAKER_01]: to be created, sustain, and we get the amazing gift of being able to do that. 19:11.032 --> 19:21.544 [SPEAKER_01]: So, tell us a little bit about what I'm talking about this, but it's a book for kids, so tell us kind of the message in what you hope for kids and for parents. 19:22.225 --> 19:33.859 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the book is written, I mean, it's really just a little sing-songy board book for kids, like, did you know your my miracle, your my dream come true, my baby, I've waited so long for you. 19:34.109 --> 19:46.804 [SPEAKER_00]: And whether it's a head through it, just a regular healthy pregnancy, you know, you're still waiting the nine months to like from when they're like a little chia seed size all the way to like a full blown baby, but especially for those who have waited. 19:47.385 --> 19:52.711 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, so I was at a friend's birthday party and I think it was kind of a tender birthday. 19:52.771 --> 19:58.338 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that she was struggling at the time with feeling worthy and loved and like what was her purpose. 19:58.798 --> 20:02.142 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I found out at that birthday party that 20:02.543 --> 20:05.708 [SPEAKER_00]: She was born as a result of an infertility treatment. 20:05.728 --> 20:10.115 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, she's the first born, and I was like, oh my gosh, you are your parents' kind of promise. 20:10.155 --> 20:15.563 [SPEAKER_00]: Like your parents wanted you so badly that you were their answer to prayer. 20:15.583 --> 20:22.774 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, as the first born, after years of it, I'm guessing that they went through infertility if they went to infertility treatment. 20:22.794 --> 20:27.201 [SPEAKER_00]: And this was like decades ago, before people were talking about infertility treatments, I'm like, 20:27.181 --> 20:28.864 [SPEAKER_00]: They wanted you so bad. 20:28.884 --> 20:36.176 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that was like the first time that she ever thought, like, oh, like my parents really wanted me. 20:36.216 --> 20:38.179 [SPEAKER_00]: They really pursued my life. 20:38.319 --> 20:41.564 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I am an answer to prayer and I am an answer. 20:41.625 --> 20:43.968 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm like God's promise to them. 20:44.008 --> 20:50.539 [SPEAKER_00]: A fulfillment of God's promise to my parents is I think, you know, I want my kids to know. 20:50.519 --> 20:56.725 [SPEAKER_00]: Forever, no, you know, even when they act out, or when they feel most unlovable, like you're still my miracle, I still love you. 20:56.745 --> 20:57.726 [SPEAKER_00]: I still waited for you. 20:57.746 --> 21:00.929 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is a good reminder for me, too, on those days when I get frustrated. 21:00.989 --> 21:13.781 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm going to pull out my hair, but like, now I waited so long for the blessing of shepherding these kids and stewarding their strengths and their raw spaces and everything. 21:13.841 --> 21:18.906 [SPEAKER_00]: They're a miracle, but I feel like this book is even more so or not. 21:19.223 --> 21:33.867 [SPEAKER_00]: to the parents who have had to walk through hardship and waiting and difficulty to get to the place of holding their babies, whether it's through fostering adoption and fertility treatments or just waiting a really, really long time. 21:33.927 --> 21:35.910 [SPEAKER_00]: Secondary infertility, whatever it is. 21:36.150 --> 21:39.696 [SPEAKER_00]: Like it's a nod to the parents even more so I feel like. 21:39.743 --> 21:42.427 [SPEAKER_00]: then a feel good fuzzy book for the kids. 21:42.507 --> 21:47.054 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, the God long ago had written your story. 21:47.234 --> 21:49.678 [SPEAKER_00]: Now he woe bit with mine for the sake of his glory. 21:50.278 --> 21:58.751 [SPEAKER_00]: And then just just a lot of these pieces of God's intentionality and whether it's adopting or whatever, whatever, however, however, God grows our family. 21:58.951 --> 22:00.233 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a celebration of 22:00.567 --> 22:03.393 [SPEAKER_00]: got weaving together different stories to it. 22:03.414 --> 22:05.438 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like so many children's books are like that. 22:05.498 --> 22:07.784 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think my kids are a little older where I don't read that. 22:07.804 --> 22:08.886 [SPEAKER_01]: My kids book so many more. 22:09.147 --> 22:18.508 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, I just feel like I've read them and it just brings tears to my eyes because I'm like, I know this is supposed to be for the kids, but it's so sweet and as your mom, like I agree, like you're so special. 22:18.488 --> 22:19.069 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-huh. 22:19.570 --> 22:19.970 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 22:20.111 --> 22:24.718 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's really beautiful because it does, I mean those simple words really speak to parents and kids. 22:24.759 --> 22:28.365 [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes we need it broken down in a simple way because we like to overcomplicate things. 22:28.725 --> 22:29.967 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I love that. 22:29.987 --> 22:30.508 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah. 22:30.528 --> 22:30.929 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 22:31.410 --> 22:43.490 [SPEAKER_01]: And tell us kind of getting into the kids part like why do you think it's so important for our kids to hear time and time again on our good days and our bad days that they are wanted and we're prayed for. 22:43.570 --> 22:44.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:44.071 --> 23:04.822 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if we're not telling them, then the world tells them what they're worth, the enemy tells them what they're worth, you know, in the absence of our words and our affirmations and our shepherding, something someone else is going to shape their identity and their sense of value and worth. 23:05.042 --> 23:05.623 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, 23:05.603 --> 23:12.560 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to have, I want to be the first person, you know, the the loudest voice because Satan is so sneaky. 23:12.781 --> 23:23.106 [SPEAKER_00]: There was this, when I was going through therapy myself, there was this, this quote that I learned it was like children are great observers but poor interpreters and how many times do we 23:23.086 --> 23:38.496 [SPEAKER_00]: They're observing the right thing like mommy is really upset, you know, about this thing, but they can't interpret it's because mommy just doesn't have bad news and she's feeling bad about herself, but it's not about you but it's not about, you know, how many times have I had to 23:38.476 --> 23:42.682 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd be like, Mommy just had a really rotten day and Mommy's not in a good mood. 23:42.782 --> 23:43.783 [SPEAKER_00]: And you did nothing wrong. 23:44.384 --> 23:45.205 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I yelled at you. 23:45.346 --> 23:48.850 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was so... Yeah, I think. 23:49.772 --> 23:54.679 [SPEAKER_00]: If we don't shape their identities, then the world is Satan's. 23:55.059 --> 23:56.321 [SPEAKER_00]: Other voices will. 23:56.661 --> 24:00.967 [SPEAKER_00]: I want them to know from me and from God just how wanted it and loved it. 24:00.987 --> 24:02.009 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what's really convicting. 24:02.029 --> 24:04.332 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to be thinking about it a lot. 24:04.312 --> 24:06.194 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like that. 24:06.554 --> 24:07.115 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like it. 24:08.176 --> 24:08.817 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, right. 24:09.678 --> 24:15.004 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of just to wrap up, like, what do you hope that this book in your message? 24:15.304 --> 24:20.830 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do you hope that it's going to encourage parents who are waiting, whatever the process that it is? 24:20.910 --> 24:30.200 [SPEAKER_01]: Because, like you said, this can be for people who are just waiting for a natural, easy, pregnancy that still took nine months, or people who are going through infertility or adapting. 24:30.220 --> 24:33.424 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do you hope that this book encourages people who are waiting? 24:33.404 --> 24:35.530 [SPEAKER_01]: to meet their little miracle. 24:35.550 --> 24:42.530 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I hope that encourages people to remember that God, that he sees us. 24:42.590 --> 24:43.633 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mentioned this really. 24:43.653 --> 24:44.355 [SPEAKER_00]: He sees us. 24:44.395 --> 24:47.223 [SPEAKER_00]: He's the God who sees the longings of our heart. 24:47.604 --> 24:48.747 [SPEAKER_00]: We are not forgotten. 24:48.727 --> 24:50.790 [SPEAKER_00]: He is writing a story. 24:50.830 --> 24:52.331 [SPEAKER_00]: He isn't paused in writing. 24:52.412 --> 24:54.374 [SPEAKER_00]: He feels like a pause sometimes. 24:54.614 --> 24:56.877 [SPEAKER_00]: But he is writing a story. 24:56.997 --> 25:02.424 [SPEAKER_00]: He is forming something in us through our waiting and our suffering. 25:02.584 --> 25:08.912 [SPEAKER_00]: In a way, he's forming something in us that is more precious than gold and in his time. 25:08.892 --> 25:27.070 [SPEAKER_00]: Cube'll grow our families in one way or another in one way or another and it might might not be the way that we expect and there might be grief along with that But he knows what is good and and he's no he knows what is for our good and and he does what is for his glory so we can 25:27.050 --> 25:50.205 [SPEAKER_00]: keep trusting in him a verse that I go to all the time went to all the time and in fertility I still go to it's good it's from us all in 73 I think it says my heart and my flesh may fail but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever like infertility and miscarriage and all that like infant loss it feels like my flesh failed it is failing it fails so hard right now 25:50.590 --> 26:00.488 [SPEAKER_00]: My heart and my flesh, like my hope and my body, it might fail, but God, God, when you even when I feel like I have no strength, God is the strength of my heart. 26:00.508 --> 26:05.697 [SPEAKER_00]: And if I have nothing else, like he is my portion forever, and okay, God, I love that be enough. 26:05.828 --> 26:10.613 [SPEAKER_00]: And I still want to baby, but yeah, Scott, even if I had nothing, you were my portion. 26:10.814 --> 26:11.114 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 26:11.334 --> 26:14.097 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's such a good, good verse for this. 26:14.278 --> 26:15.679 [SPEAKER_01]: Solid reminder, yeah, hopefully. 26:15.759 --> 26:16.800 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, not hopefully. 26:16.881 --> 26:21.426 [SPEAKER_01]: I know that listeners were struggling right now will resonate with that and appreciate that. 26:21.466 --> 26:22.547 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you. 26:22.647 --> 26:27.853 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you tell us where we can connect with you and where we can get your book and all the good stuff? 26:27.833 --> 26:28.434 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. 26:28.454 --> 26:31.617 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can get your book and get this book wherever you buy your book. 26:31.637 --> 26:37.603 [SPEAKER_00]: So Amazon, Barnes and Noble, bookshop.com is a new one that I heard of that I just recently learned of. 26:37.783 --> 26:39.024 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can connect with me. 26:39.184 --> 26:43.008 [SPEAKER_00]: I am on Facebook, TikTok, not very not a very frequent TikToker. 26:43.429 --> 26:50.235 [SPEAKER_00]: But Instagram, at my handles, at Alice Metagora, and you can also find my website, Alice Metagora. 26:50.255 --> 26:52.778 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll put all that in, show notes too, so people can find it. 26:52.758 --> 26:53.841 [SPEAKER_01]: But thank you so much. 26:53.961 --> 27:00.801 [SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate your vulnerability and sharing and writing this book and just reaching so many who really really need some hope. 27:01.021 --> 27:01.864 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you. 27:02.766 --> 27:02.867 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 27:02.887 --> 27:02.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 27:03.007 --> 27:03.107 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 27:03.127 --> 27:03.609 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 27:03.749 --> 27:05.113 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having me as good to be here. 27:08.519 --> 27:09.541 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for being here. 27:09.721 --> 27:21.319 [SPEAKER_01]: You guys, I am so thankful to Alice for sharing her story and her heart today, like what a beautiful reminder that even in our waiting got us at work, writing stories that bring him glory and shape us in the process. 27:21.820 --> 27:24.404 [SPEAKER_01]: You can find Alice's new children book, you are my miracle. 27:24.424 --> 27:30.994 [SPEAKER_01]: Wherever books are sold, it's just a really sweet reminder for parents and kids alike that every child is a gift and a miracle. 27:31.334 --> 27:32.296 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll link it in the show now. 27:32.316 --> 27:35.100 [SPEAKER_01]: It's along with her website and her social media. 27:35.080 --> 27:37.190 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much for listening today guys. 27:37.472 --> 27:43.521 [SPEAKER_01]: May you rest in the truth that God sees you, He loves you and He's faithful in every single season.