[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm Nicole and one of the hosts of the Nevermind the music podcast.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's an affiliated floor house network.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we've teamed up to cover season one of Florvis on Apple TV.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is our podcast covering episode three, Greennade.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll have weekly episode to episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: Not so much recaps, but overviews.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you can expect our podcast on Monday mornings.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we love, listen, or feedback, voicemails and emails would be great.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really the best way for us to incorporate the, how the community is receiving the co, hand to the pod, keep her the chronicles, and Nancy M, aka two kids, two dogs on our discord.
[SPEAKER_03]: has graciously offered to help us coordinate all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's a huge Vince Gilligan fan and she loves doing this.
[SPEAKER_03]: So email her at pleurbusatthelorhounds.com.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's a lovely person and you will have fun with your her feedback.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nancy's awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can engage with her and others on our community discord as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: Pretty active over there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you're interested in supporting the podcast and supporting all of the creators who engage with all of the stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: We are an independent podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: We do rely on add dollars, but those are fickle and not so great.
[SPEAKER_03]: So subscriptions are really a great way if you are able and feel moved to contribute.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can subscribe on Patreon or supercast.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are links for everything in the show notes, including to all of our affiliate podcasts, like most excellent.
[SPEAKER_03]: Never mind, the music podcast and multiple others.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a link tree, just click on that and you'll go to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, that's the intro stuff out of the way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome if you're new here, everyone else, it's good to be back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nicole and I with Nancy's help, have got our feet underneath us.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be a little bit more, I feel like.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for your patience on our first episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: We really just had to bring dump a lot of information.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're coming at you and I think a more rhythmic, organized way for episode 3.
[SPEAKER_05]: And thanks for coming with us on that wild ride as we figured out what's going on with this show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me do it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was a lot.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so our overview for the episode today, we're going to have our hot takes and then we're going to do a little bit of episode one and two callbacks, deep dives, Nancy had put together some research material for us that I want to make sure, but that also incorporates some new things and it may lead into theory crafting and predictions for what's coming up in the future.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then we're going to talk about the major topics of episode three.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to talk about Rorschach, Inplot tests and something that's called open or closed theory on the text, how people are interpreting it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we can talk about the life of being joined and what they're really up to.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got some good feedback about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then we'll flip into a little scene by scene and we'll just sort of dance through the scenes, pull out some of our favorite reactions, the things that made us giggle and sort of fall on over this production and then we've got some feedback that we've woven into that there because a lot of folks are.
[SPEAKER_03]: doing a lot of interpretations in theory, crafting, and trying to find little hidden stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we got great stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then at the very end, we'll have some updates on our network.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Nicole episode three, we're in it now.
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you feel about the show about this episode so far?
[SPEAKER_03]: Just on the broadest takes?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, the broadest takes.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have like, it's really hard for me to be broad.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like detail in to look at what we're going to detail.
[SPEAKER_05]: Go for it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I, well, first my real hot take that you might be shocked at is I did not love this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought it was like visually really dynamic and like the cinematography was really great.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I wanted it to be quicker.
[SPEAKER_05]: We get it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I think that we spent much time re-litigating how that works.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like we get it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, that's it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: She needs the grocery.
[SPEAKER_05]: She needs, um, the light.
[SPEAKER_05]: She needs the grenade.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, she needs their infrastructure.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think it was a lot of, like, tricks on just delivering that point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but I get the point.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think we did see a lot of,
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: She didn't move the needle far enough for me to like progress the plot.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: But maybe I just am not seeing the nuance, which is fine.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure by the end of our recording together today, I will be convinced otherwise because your passion is going to infect me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a phenomenon that we observe often that as we take apart the show,
[SPEAKER_03]: that we start to see the new ones in the construction still may be a little clunky or may not be our salad you know that's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that that we can see the craft making and that that is a common thing that I have gone through numerous times where John will be.
[SPEAKER_03]: really loving the episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't and then, oh, I see this and I see that and I will say between you and I like I'm between me and you and all of our listeners.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am like coming at this with more of a pedestrian method than you might be like your deep diving and reading a lot of additional content.
[SPEAKER_05]: I am not as much and I think that that's
[SPEAKER_05]: that's an important point of view.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's like one of my hot takes, but I'm all about changing my mind.
[SPEAKER_05]: So okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: And another thing I was thinking that as a joined person individual, it would be really weird to not have to wonder about anything.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like she's imagine like you just know every answer to every question, you know how to do everything.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that got me thinking, oh, it's like, what a bummer that would be to not have to like pond or research or figure it out or like puzzle things out, you just know it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I was like, isn't that how we're living now?
[SPEAKER_05]: with the internet and chat to you, we didn't like AI and search engines, like we don't have to wonder.
[SPEAKER_05]: We just look it up.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that there's like a bigger overarching metaphor to that in the show that I'm interested in like exploring as we move through.
[SPEAKER_05]: So those are my two hot takes.
[SPEAKER_05]: One pretty surface and one like existential.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I remember when I got my first iPhone,
[SPEAKER_03]: and that ability we were sitting around in a friend's backyard.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were chatting.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was about to head off for on some travels and we were discussing things and every time there was a question, what about this?
[SPEAKER_03]: What about that?
[SPEAKER_03]: It was pull out the iPhone and what good up.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, whoa, this is really weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's weird and it's just like, oh, it's not like, oh, let's try to what how did this get invented when was how did fun go like iterate, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Glush and just like, oh, all right, that's how cool what's next and there's like a grit to it wondering like when everyone got joined, where did all the grit go in the hive mind?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like it's so sterile and shiny and clean.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a good question.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a really good question.
[SPEAKER_05]: Where did it go?
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, I think, you know, stemming out here, but is grit just a reaction to the negative stuff in the world?
[SPEAKER_05]: And if there is no negative stuff, do we not like ever get that grit and resilience?
[SPEAKER_03]: And let's put a pain in the past.
[SPEAKER_05]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And add that to our deeper conversations when we get through a couple of other things.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm putting it in the outline right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: What is it when you are joined?
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a really interesting question because when we... No, I'm gonna save it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna save it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Save it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because I think that that's why Carol feels the way she feels.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because she's so gritty and we're not seeing it anywhere else.
[SPEAKER_03]: So.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that takes.
[SPEAKER_03]: on the opposite side, this episode made me giggle.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's getting repeatedly.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it is maybe less about how, I take the point of the storyline being advanced to a sufficient degree.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've teased a couple of things, but we're not actually getting it and we're only got nine episodes.
[SPEAKER_03]: So like, how are we gonna move forward?
[SPEAKER_03]: I get that, I can see your point of view on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think I was taken by the visual and the construction of this episode, the supermarket scene just gave me joy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I literally felt joy in my life watching that.
[SPEAKER_05]: When I was watching it, the most I got joy to visually, but I got more joy thinking about you watching it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think he loves it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like can tell, they have a lot of big mess.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like so choreographed, beautiful.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and to complete Vince Gilligan nonsense.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we've got some feedback for some people it worked and for other people it didn't.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's cool for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It worked.
[SPEAKER_03]: And in the official pod this week, the official pleurbus pod had some great insights and behind the scenes they talked about how they pulled all this off and the supermarket and the parking lots and the trucks and all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're into production details and how the sausage is made, definitely check it out because they get into the nitty-gritty about how they set up the explosion with the grenade, all of that stuff, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then, as I was watching our discord and gauging the reactions that people are having, real broad spectrum, it made me think about ink plot tests in Rorschach and Rorschach and his construction of the
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I did some more thinking and I was thinking about reader response theory and how messages are encoded and decoded and that whole thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I wrote a blog post, sort of summarizing some of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you can find that at our website, lorehounds.com, I linked it in the Discord as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then I was watching, I was doing my second watch last night and we're gonna talk about all that stuff a little bit later.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was giggling so much last night that I kept waking my wife up.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and then I was thinking about that, the visual aspects of it, and how this is not an episode directed by Vince Gilligan, but I could have thought if I hadn't known that factually, I would have thought that this is a Vince Gilligan episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: The creative magnetism that he is drawing out of the actors and the production crews, and
[SPEAKER_03]: the gaffers and the truck drivers and all of this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like listening to him on the behind the scenes podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wasn't involved in a whole bunch of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, oh, wow, that's how you did that.
[SPEAKER_03]: No way.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my role.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're like, wow, all of these people are magnetized.
[SPEAKER_03]: by what he had created.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just, I love that fact that there is a creative community that is excelling at these levels and creating in the visual.
[SPEAKER_05]: And like a trust that he has for his crew and the people that he works with, they're doing things that he didn't vet or even knew about.
[SPEAKER_05]: It just speaks to the level of creative trust.
[SPEAKER_05]: That only comes for when you work with people for many, many years that you just know they're going to execute to your standard and you don't even have to back check it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_05]: Lovely, like, artistically to have that whole of trust.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're all going to talk about how Vince Gilligan did this or did that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he didn't do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we're using his name as the collective.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the last thing on the discord, people are clue-finding and talking about a bunch of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was thinking about, wow, we still have another character to introduce into the show story.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have no, I just don't even know where to predict, but people are coming up with a bunch of interesting theories and insights, which is what we do and what we kind of love, why we love shows like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: But Nancy M, hand to the pod, send an advice mail,
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's illuminating into maybe some thoughts about where the show is going or how the show is constructed.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I want to play that real quick right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Laura Hounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Nancy M. Hand of the Pod with some feedback on Episode 3.
[SPEAKER_00]: Being a pilgrim at the filmmaking ultra-of-and-skill again, I don't believe anything is in the script without reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are numerous times in this episode where the joint apologized to Carol for something they did wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: or because they misunderstood what she had asked for.
[SPEAKER_00]: They make mistakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I firmly believe this is a Gilligan clue that will be very important going forward to the plot.
[SPEAKER_00]: It may even suggest to us the viewers how Carol saves the world from happiness.
[SPEAKER_00]: These collective beings that I assume are being controlled in some fashion by aliens are not perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if she can find a way to take advantage
[SPEAKER_00]: I predict a mouse will take down the elephant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take care and a coal and David you're doing a wonderful job with the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, Nancy's very sweet.
[SPEAKER_05]: I kind of just want to give me a big hug, I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: She does so much for the community.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's great.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, um, and...
[SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to play her voice mail at this stage to sort of help frame to our conversations around the thoughts about like, where is this going and how are things going to work and in this idea that there is structure underneath this.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's encoding.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's going on there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then also just to encourage folks to send in voice mail is super easy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Record it on your cell phone and send it to the pleurbus at thelarhounds.com email and we can incorporate them straight in.
[SPEAKER_05]: way easier to talk than to type an email.
[SPEAKER_03]: And don't worry at all about, oh, I'm going to be self-confused.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do I, how do I sound?
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't let all of that go.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a community podcast that everybody gets it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we can do a little bit of light editing on the audio to if necessary.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, just feel free.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a culture on the internet of
[SPEAKER_03]: People responding to things when they're inaccurate, or if you're mispronounce a name, or what have you, and we really are fostering a different kind of community here in as much as we want to hear your thoughts and opinions and ideas that don't have to be controversial or hot takes or counter points, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like just share, and again, written or voicemails,
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry about polish, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Just send us your thoughts.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we like grit here.
[SPEAKER_05]: We like grit here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, in the story of this world.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's take a quick break.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when we come back, we'll talk about a few things that are left over from episodes one and two.
[SPEAKER_03]: and we're back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so Nancy had put together a bunch of an outline for us with a bunch of research in it and I didn't want to let that slide and we're the lorehounds so we like to noodle and deep dive on a few things here and there so so some pull we're sort of calling back to episode 1 and 2 really quick.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know anything about the very larger ray that we saw
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't, but I'm looking at these notes in learning a lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: So tell us everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is outside of Albuquerque.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's owned by the National Science Foundation.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the National Radio Astronomy Observatory.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's...
[SPEAKER_03]: run by a consortium of universities, and the VLA, that's the acronym, is apparently cited in more publications than any other single radio telescope in the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe we wouldn't have a lot of radio telescope in the world, but the point is, is that it's a very important.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, I'm not, I mean, I come off as smart and I pretend to be smart, but it's not true.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just a bunch of big
[SPEAKER_05]: like antennas like so many antennas that's picking up radio signals from like super duper far away and we're like it's 27 antennas actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow measuring 80 feet in diameter about 25 meters and they weigh 230 tons each and they're on rail cars and they're in a wide shape
[SPEAKER_03]: and they can move the cars and it can spread out to over 20 miles about 36 kilometers, so that they can aggregate and create a giant single dish.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be that size, but they're all, you know, uh, component parts.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then so yeah, they have this big railroad tracks and then they pull off the railroad track and they can change the configuration depending on what black hole they're trying to look at or what pulsar, quays are, whatever thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're just like looking, we'll try to pick up a signal, pick up a rogue alien signal.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: In studying stars and looking at, you know, planet hunting and trying to understand, you know, gravity and distribution of matter and all this kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, the movie contact from 1997, you know, that's it's featured in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's such a visually stunning thing, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the fact that.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were able to get those antennas because it's a constant busy schedule there and the things are constantly being moved and reshaped, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a lot of planning that goes into that and so for the pleurbish crew to be able to get the shots they got with those antennas in that configuration.
[SPEAKER_03]: How they arranged for that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know because they meet it look visually great, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: There is a big operation center that is more than just a dusty trailer.
[SPEAKER_05]: It kind of would have to be, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they have a visitor center, and you can go on tours and they have educational programs and all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's a really important thing for astronomy and astronomers around the world.
[SPEAKER_05]: So maybe we can get a lower-hounds field trip.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be very cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Super accessible.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think we can put a pin in the VLA because when we think about the joint and they talk about their biological imperative to share and how we received them, you know, we how the Earth received the message, we'll talk about it later, but there's some speculation what are they going to do next and is it going to be something sending a sending our signal out, right, and
[SPEAKER_03]: So another thing that's coming up is the number four, kind of a numerological interpretation or reading of the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: The four-toned alien signal, obviously four are, you know, nucleotides in RNA.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then, we get into this whole thing around Wikaro and the name, I'm going to probably pronounce this incorrectly, so you can correct me politely, dear listeners.
[SPEAKER_03]: Lucasia, if I remember right, I haven't gone back to actually pluck her name out.
[SPEAKER_03]: This main character of the Waikaro series and her lover, Reban, the name Casia references a poet who lived from 1632 to 1634, Katherine Phillips.
[SPEAKER_03]: to my excellent lacocia on our friendship, and it uses quad trains throughout.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a six-dands-up poem divided into four lines with an A, B, A, B, rhyme scheme.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just reading some notes here.
[SPEAKER_03]: So everybody, I'm not a literary poet.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's understood that Katherine Phillips had a partner whose name was.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm looking for that in the
[SPEAKER_03]: notes, and I can't remember Anne Owens, her quote unquote friend, right, because you didn't have open, well, I don't know enough about history to say about what happened then, but you know, they were two women who were in love with each other and who were partners.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that sort of overlays with Carol and Helen and but again, four is a number here and then we have blood song of white horror I have more stuff about the number four that's okay, go for it so also to note that her current book is the fourth of the trilogy, which
[SPEAKER_05]: I clocked immediately and it was just fundamentally not making sense, but it was enough to make me sit up straight and think like,
[SPEAKER_04]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: Also, in this current episode, it's a weird thing to notice, but she had like three types of olives in her fridge, I think, and then they showed a fourth type of olive at the grocery store.
[SPEAKER_05]: I really got stuck on the olive.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I think it has an e-symbolism, but like, that's just a set of having fun, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Hi.
[SPEAKER_05]: And in numerology, the number four represents stability, practicality, hard work.
[SPEAKER_05]: built on a foundation of organization, logic, and discipline.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that can you could make the connection to the joint in that way as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so everybody go go hunt for for for sparing everywhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: The blood song of Waikaro Apple books has released a book on Apple books.
[SPEAKER_03]: uh uh a sample of bloods on the Voicaro chapter chapter 16.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sin, Sin and taste.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't put up some of my brain.
[SPEAKER_05]: You wouldn't drop.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, oh, this is one of those shows.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is how we show it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That now we're like deep diving until these clues everywhere in the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the snippet that they've attached to this is take sale with Kasia captain of the Dune Ship Mercade or Mercator.
[SPEAKER_03]: As she traverses the Amaranthine Sands of Waikaro, seeking a cure for the insidious illness, filling her crew.
[SPEAKER_03]: As Kasia navigates a treacherous storm,
[SPEAKER_03]: She is haunted by memories of Robon, the rogue who stole her heart before walking the plank.
[SPEAKER_03]: Seating with passions, which cry for release, she soon learns the only thing worse than finding yourself alone in the dark, is discovering you're not alone.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, if that doesn't have a very strong correlation to our clients, it doesn't take a genius to figure out like that this is a metaphor, right, that we're following the arc.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I haven't read the chapter yet.
[SPEAKER_05]: Have you, I know a drop like last night at the time we're recording?
[SPEAKER_03]: I just downloaded it this morning as I was touching up the outline.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, it's free.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's free.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's Apple ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm sure somebody out there,
[SPEAKER_03]: we'll we'll pdfize it and if you need any help with that, you know, maybe reach out on the discord.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure our someone I have some theories about what this is for shadowing next.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, please.
[SPEAKER_05]: Can I get it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, go for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that, you know, it makes a lot of sense.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, characters navigating a treacherous storm, this illness has taken over her crew.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's hunted by memories of her lost lover.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is all we know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Helen is, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: We know that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like this is a strong connection here.
[SPEAKER_05]: The last line of this little intro is she soon learns the only thing worse than binding yourself alone in the dark.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just scuffering.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're not alone.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm thinking.
[SPEAKER_05]: that this other unjoined that in this episode will get to but she talks to him a phone and it's a there's resistance there.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that they are a quote bad guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that they're not going to help Carol that they're evil somehow in a
[SPEAKER_05]: maybe not, but the plot's moving towards them connecting, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Whether we're moving that direction.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that when they do connect, she's going to see that he's not a helper that he's actually someone to avoid and be scared of and that's going to hurt her even more somehow.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I think he's going to be a villain.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you remember when Alex says says to her, we can't, what did she say?
[SPEAKER_03]: She says something about,
[SPEAKER_05]: right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, dropping that hit.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when we meet all of the the other ones, the other unjoined in that little thing, nobody was there was in animosity, but there was no danger.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was no danger.
[SPEAKER_05]: There was like emotional danger.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it wasn't like no one was at risk.
[SPEAKER_05]: And you didn't feel like unsafe.
[SPEAKER_05]: It just felt like a disappointment and that Carol's even more of an outlier than you thought.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I think with this other guy, the fact that they didn't know about him for days, that's weird.
[SPEAKER_05]: They were in less like, where is he in a bunker?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like you see a prepper or something?
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't wait, and I really, I think the one of my disappointments for this episode was like, we didn't meet him yet because I was really like, I thought that that's what was going to happen.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, I don't want to wait another week to meet this guy because he seems like a weirdo and I'm into it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this thing is, you know, discovering that the people that you think are going to help you are actually here to hurt you.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I, I would put money on that so
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, she's doing a structuralist reading of the text, she's saying, look at the structure of what is being constructed, what do we know about Vince Gilligan and the kind of creativity that he inspires and has his writers working on?
[SPEAKER_03]: that the clues are in the text as so far that we have.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't think that they would have released a whole book on Apple books with that line.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no one discovering you're not alone.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that is.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's too obtuse, you know, in fact, it's so obtuse that I'm like maybe it's a
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, um, a decoy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny because when you're showrunner these days, if you're at this tier level of producing shows, you got to know the Reddit detectives are going to be on the case the moment that even before anything drops, just production notes or news blips or whatever, people are going to be constructing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Deary and interrogating what's what's coming.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's the fun of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what makes consuming media interesting now as it's a multimedia approach that you can do all these different things to engage your audience.
[SPEAKER_05]: And if that's their smart to do that, it's just like adding lore and adding mysticism.
[SPEAKER_03]: And only if there were some podcasts that might help you with that discovery process.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I wonder, it's not us.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's deep dive into R and A right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you know much about R and A because I do not.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know it's the building block of life.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just like I know that mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just like I said, we're hearing about the mic.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's what I got.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you happen to be a geneticist in our listening community, please write in or send in a voice mail help us understand RNA a little bit better.
[SPEAKER_03]: DNA is the instruction set and like a if DNA is the architectural plans then RNA is the general contractor executing those plans.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just came up with that like literally right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's pretty great.
[SPEAKER_05]: You're a good teacher.
[SPEAKER_05]: I tell you that a lot, but I think that you should get into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've done lectures and presentations.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was, I was, I'm a board chair for a local nonprofit here and we had a big fundraising dinner last night, so I was at the MC for the evening.
[SPEAKER_05]: How do you have time to do all this?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like full-mine laundry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do not know and I do crash out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do crash out like I had some meetings the other day and then I came home And I was like from done right so I'm just gonna like read about floribus and like watch the show 20 times I'm like consume every bit of content about and like write a blog post to I do have a Gemini One of my I'm
[SPEAKER_03]: My rising is Virgo, and my son is Gemini, and my moon is Gemini, I think is the what it is.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like double Gemini with Virgo rising, so I'm a communicator.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a communicator.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm a communicator with the Pisces, so I'm organized and feeling Z.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, there you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Our vergos are like, that's why we're doing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We see each other.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's stay focused, jump in the eye.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not going to be going to try to pronounce the four chemicals that make up the artificial can, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, can.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, so yeah, RNA runs around and executes the instructions based on the DNA plan.
[SPEAKER_03]: So then we get into the lysogenic cycle.
[SPEAKER_03]: which is how apparently the RNA signal from space, the technology, as they say, gets spread.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so there's a virus is a delivery mechanism in this regard injecting RNA or DNA into a host cell.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think in this case RNA.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then with this particular cycle, the RNA silently embeds itself into a cell.
[SPEAKER_03]: So then as the cell divides, the RNA is replicated until some sort of dormant silently, and nobody knows that it's in there, none of the body's defenses systems or anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then through some sort of magic signal, who knows what the conditions are,
[SPEAKER_03]: boom, it activates and then activates those sleeping instructions and then it takes over your body.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think, you know, it's, I don't know, I know that that this work, there is work done in this regard.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't know what they took for real, for instructions for the actors, when they're frozen and shaking and then they're going through that change.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: the light tick tick, the light tick tick over of all of these cells suddenly going into action and then the person joining the collective.
[SPEAKER_03]: So.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then we see it again when Carol gets to angry mad.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if they think that's the same.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's I think those are two different responses that have a similar visual presence.
[SPEAKER_05]: it's easier to think of it that way too because then you have to think like okay if it's happening again, are they adapting and changing and maybe they are like maybe they're getting better at dealing with the hostility because they didn't anticipate hostility at first they just created like a massive takeover where everyone just joins up and this is like the second takeover event is them recoding.
[SPEAKER_03]: to like deal interesting that's a good theory.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting theory because it is the same response same physiological.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right and I don't think there's more to have it to have it not mean the same thing like I think that was been skilligan and his team.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that there are two
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you get it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I know I get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It would have to do what they do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why would they do it?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: If it wasn't like a re, like an update.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it, interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was noting today on this episode that Carol is controlling her temper more, but you know how,
[SPEAKER_03]: anticipatory were the joint in her reactions and sort of stealing themselves maybe a little bit maybe I'm reading a little too much.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, she's also like literally chewing X and X so it's not going to hurt and I'm not going to let her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I want to talk about to this idea that, you know, we talk about, well, you can't, you know, nobody makes me do anything but isn't there a sympathetic physiological response
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, if I see somebody who's angry and agitated, I, that might trigger physiological responses and me that I'm not necessarily intellectually in control of.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you have mirror neurons for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: You see people angry, you're most likely gonna get angry unless your nervous system super regulated.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, that's for sure true.
[SPEAKER_05]: If you see people happy, you'll feel happy, especially if you think of like being a really like affectively empathetic person.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I do think Carol has a lot of affective empathy.
[SPEAKER_05]: as opposed to cognitive empathy, which we can discuss later on.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm putting it in a...
[SPEAKER_02]: I've affected empathy.
[SPEAKER_05]: I've affected empathy, got it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I think that there's... We definitely, if we're around people that are angry, we will feel angry.
[SPEAKER_05]: We munked our behavior.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's human nature.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the question is, is the choice of what do I do with that emotional response?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's a cognitive piece.
[SPEAKER_05]: How do I self-regulate?
[SPEAKER_05]: And for her, it's X and Vodka, which is a tricky combination.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I have other theories about that medication.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have other theories of what's going on there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Last quick note, then we'll take a break, and then we'll start talking about Carol and all of this kind of stuff is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nancy put in a note here about Phenaghan's wake written by James Joyce, and the note here is is that the normal storyline.
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't have a normal storyline that we would recognize, and that the language and the style and the flow seems natural, but it's also dumb founding.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, fourth dimension, you know, that he was writing in this like other state that it's hard for us who are not in that state to follow or track.
[SPEAKER_03]: and then that there's a lot of references kind of like a jabber walking nonsense kind of thing uh... that's going on in it as well i would love if anyone out there knows anything about phooming in the wake has read it or had you know any sort of literary criticism to have a take on how is that relating is this a did the writer's room use this a little bit as a
[SPEAKER_03]: some kind of a blueprint or some sort of they did they get some inspiration from thinning his wake in terms of how they're writing the scripts and putting the story lying together.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well also James Joyce was known for like heavy alcohol consumption.
[SPEAKER_05]: He was known to have syphilis which would make you go a little it would make would induce some psychosis.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Treat that with like arsenic and phosphorus.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, the care is almost worse than the other consciousness.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, it was, he was on drugs.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, right, for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: And is it gibberish and nonsense or is it inspired genius that is hard to interpret?
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think that that's often the case, you know, I've been teaching this class about creativity and the subconsciousness and how we use.
[SPEAKER_05]: alternate forms of consciousness to tap into our default mode network to induce creativity.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we're doing a lot of artists, case studies, and James Joyce is coming up a lot of is it creative genius or we just interpret like layering on this idea of genius, we attached him, but really it was just drug fueled gibberish, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And we're just like trying to like
[SPEAKER_03]: we're pattern interpreting creatures human being seek pattern and to derive meaning we're meaning makers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why did it rain today?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh was it because of an atmospheric thing or was it because of some spiritual or mythological reason?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it a sign?
[SPEAKER_03]: What are we're always looking for meaning in our observations?
[SPEAKER_03]: Which helps us survive?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, what are these tracks?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's the Sabres Hughes Tiger.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, that's the cave.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm not going to go in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a pattern, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Looking for patterns.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we do that a lot with personality testing.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't wait to talk about Rorschach with you in a few minutes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I texted you the other day and you're like, I know a lot about Rorschach because it's a great intersection of art and psychology.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where that's what this show is.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm interested in that, just generally.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I can't wait.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let's take another quick break, and then when we come back, we're going to get into all of these details about this intersection of a show.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be right back.
[SPEAKER_03]: and we're back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, episode three grenade.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's a grenade.
[SPEAKER_03]: The runtime is 43 minutes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was doing my second watch last night and I was like, oh my god, that was so short.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was directed by Gordon Smith and written by Gordon Smith.
[SPEAKER_03]: So as again, we talk about there's a community of people here who are creating this.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we've got a lot to talk about.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to just remind everyone I did write this blog post because I was really interested in interpreting the different reactions that our community was having people who might normally be aligned on things.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have very divergent opinions about stuff and I'll use the seat back.
[SPEAKER_03]: example, as is one thing, I interpreted Carol sitting in a coach seat that doesn't work line against the bulkhead as a kind of self-denial of pleasure or comfort and I was interpreting that
[SPEAKER_03]: to I was drawing meaning out of that as to what is Carol's personality and what are you know and theorizing about who she is as a person which the show invites us to do the whole show is inviting us to theorize and analyze all of the characters and everything that's going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: So my interpretation with that, but then a lot of folks on the discord were like, no, that's itself defense, you know, she doesn't trust the others, you know, she wants to, there's another great point.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you were comfortable and then you fell asleep, you would be vulnerable.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the vigilance discomfort is the price of vigilance.
[SPEAKER_05]: I have a note on that, too, because I shared your interpretation that like, why wouldn't you sit in first class, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or regular code sheet.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I was really challenged in a really healthy way, reading through the discord stuff about this topic and thinking about it more.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that like, what a privilege point of view we have, right, to think that like, you know, I'm,
[SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't, I could didn't even think like, oh, she feels threatened so she's sitting with her back to the wall so she can see everything like and then I felt really lucky and really privileged that that wasn't my first thought so.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, you know, and I then I started thinking I know a lot of first responders.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know a lot of police and military.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they always do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Even like at restaurants, they'll sit facing the doctor car and they can drive to know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that go back to where's my stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And like how.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nice for me that I'm feel that way.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I was really thankful to just have that check through discord that like, oh, right, I'm actually privileged.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's privilege that I'm feeling and not everyone has that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I start thinking of Carol, who's nervous system must be off the charts in this moment that she is hyper vigilant, like can't sleep very anxious, very agitated.
[SPEAKER_05]: And like of course she is.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it still makes me wonder more about her history of like, or this moment.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I hope we get there at some point in the series, but we're starting to see a little hints.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I just wanted to put that out there.
[SPEAKER_03]: So one of the things I cover in the blog post, because if, you know, you and I were together, and we had a pretty,
[SPEAKER_03]: integrated opinion about that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when I was seeing the conversation on the discord, there was a lot of diversity of opinion and for reasons why self-protection, denial of comfort, just all over and people interpreting the interpretations,
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where I got to thinking about the Worshark test because the idea that we're all bringing our interpretation to this and then that brings into this question of an open text or a closed text.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I talk about a little bit about in the blog post where
[SPEAKER_03]: with a closed text where the encode, the encoded meaning of the authors is very clear and apparent and minimizes interpretation.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we can all agree on that interpretation at least a larger, a majority of people can agree on that interpretation.
[SPEAKER_03]: We typically regard that as a closed text.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is a straight line reading of what we see here.
[SPEAKER_03]: In open text,
[SPEAKER_03]: is something that's open to interpretation.
[SPEAKER_03]: So using the seat back scenario, the wide display, or the responses to is being joined a good thing, or a not good thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have world peace.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have removed stigma on a whole bunch of different kinds of
[SPEAKER_03]: Pref, you know, orientations and physiological presentations, you know, color, or skin, your sexual orientation.
[SPEAKER_03]: All of that is gone away because, and then we can do away with violence and all of these kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: But on the other side, we erase individuality.
[SPEAKER_03]: We erase agency.
[SPEAKER_03]: We take away what people have fought for.
[SPEAKER_03]: to be heard and to be seen and to live the life the way that they want to live without fear of retribution or or or or management.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a wide degree of opinion about what is it like to be joined?
[SPEAKER_03]: And when we don't have an alignment and we don't have a common agreement, we call that an open text and that open text allows us to examine all these nuances and
[SPEAKER_03]: To create something that was this or did he just want to, you know, did he, did he just want to get raced, see Hornet and Emmy because he got denied how to better call it's all, you know, who knows?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's for, you know, we'll maybe after the season he'll be he'll be out a little bit more forthcoming about some of this stuff and we have a season two of course coming.
[SPEAKER_05]: And in psychology, we talk about like the same ideas of open versus close texts, but we use different words.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we'll talk about
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, is this a good segue into how Rorschach test, what the law or how they work?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think so, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So we would call an open test in associative text, test, in associative text, and a closed text, a convergent measure.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we're talking about convergent versus divergent thinking, divergent thinking, there's multiple right answers.
[SPEAKER_05]: There is no right answer.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's more about how you get to the answer.
[SPEAKER_05]: right, okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: The way I teach is when you think about puzzles, you can think about a puzzle that we're trying to create a new product that is a divergent puzzle.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can do it at any number of ways.
[SPEAKER_05]: But if you think of solving a jigsaw puzzle or solving the word all of people are still doing that, that is a convergent puzzle.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a really great answer, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's really clear.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's different ways to problem solve either divergent or associative or convergent, which is there's one right answer.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what we're seeing in the show is
[SPEAKER_05]: As of now, we don't know the right answer.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we're puzzling, we're trying to figure it out.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Rochok had the same idea when he developed his ink blood test that it wasn't about the right answer.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was about how you got to the answer.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, so what he, can I go into like a, can I bring down where I talk?
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_05]: He developed this associative test that there's no right answer.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's up to multiple individual interpretations.
[SPEAKER_05]: And what he did was he made these in plots.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's about eight cards.
[SPEAKER_05]: We, um, eight actual images are nine images.
[SPEAKER_05]: We think of them all as black and white, but there are some that are in color to the last half or in color.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he noticed common themes in how people responded.
[SPEAKER_05]: He knows that if people saw an animal or blood or carnage, he noted that in that individual.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then gave that individual a bunch of other standardized personality tests that did have.
[SPEAKER_05]: convergent responses.
[SPEAKER_05]: So he gave them this divergent associative test that had multiple interpretations, and then took their responses and correlated them with responses to personalities as that did have like a right and wrong answer.
[SPEAKER_05]: So...
[SPEAKER_05]: Then he could work backwards and think, OK, if you answered this way, and you coded this way on these other tests, that means you have that type of personality.
[SPEAKER_05]: And he did that with enough people that he found a level of standardization with the responses.
[SPEAKER_05]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_03]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_05]: OK.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's really interesting because it is about like how you're interpreting it and how you're solving the puzzle and how you're talking through it.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's how you get to a certain personality.
[SPEAKER_05]: And there are standards and responses you can easily find the cards and their meaning on the internet.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're very widely published.
[SPEAKER_03]: Isn't there a historical development to somebody did try to lean more into a standardized
[SPEAKER_03]: assessment scoring because one of the criticisms of inkblots was the subjective interpretive nature of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if I had a particular bias as a test administrator, I could interpret your responses in the way that I want to interpret them.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, there's definitely going to be that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And there's also, we would call the the Hawthorne effect.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know about that one.
[SPEAKER_05]: You probably know it was like the guinea pig effect, like if you're giving me this test and in my head, I'm seeing blood and carnage and like really severe images, I might not say that out loud to you.
[SPEAKER_05]: I might tell you, I see a butterfly because I don't want you to write down on your note pad that I saw death and murder and blood and go out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's the interesting thing about.
[SPEAKER_05]: psychological research is we do have this experimenter bias, which is what you're explaining that like I can code it a different way based on my perception of you as the test take.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a meta-roar shark.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I could as a test take or a fall victim to this hot thorn effect of the guinea pig effect that I could change my responses to appear a certain way to you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm, right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a vested interest in how my
[SPEAKER_03]: this individual, how this individual is presented to the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm coding, meaning to everything that the way my hair is cut, the beard, whatever my facial hair is, the colors and styles of clothing.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, is my clothing artistic or utilitarian?
[SPEAKER_03]: We're signaling all kinds of stuff, and so in a conversation where I might be concerned about how,
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm concerned about what you think about me.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm thinking about you thinking about me, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Which does that, is that theory of mind stuff?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that the theory of mind?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's about like impression management and theories of self and how we center self to others.
[SPEAKER_05]: But another thing about personality testing, just generally, is that it's very face-ballad, and that's what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_05]: What does that mean?
[SPEAKER_05]: That means that like,
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, when you were, remember David, when you were like a 16 year old girl, and you were doing like teen beat quizzes, like does he have a crush on me or not, remember those I see I guess you can like get the test to tell you he has a crush on you by answering it in the right way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a very face ballot test.
[SPEAKER_05]: So if I want my personality test to tell you that I'm introverted.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know what questions to answer to get the test to see that, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And whenever you're doing a Myers-Briggs or personally test kind of thing, you're, you're, there's a thought process of either initial response and mark that one down or this is a similar question to one that was asked a few questions ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel it trying to tease out a nuance here and I think of myself this way, so I'm going to lean that way or lean in or lean away from that.
[SPEAKER_05]: is if you're taking the Myers Briggs repackaged for like an HR assessment somewhere to get a job right you can.
[SPEAKER_05]: manipulate that test just to give you the properties of the person that needs a for that job.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got a message and then putting that into an LLM and pre prepping that going, oh, okay, anyway, sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's wild.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's why we often see folks with neurodivergencies
[SPEAKER_05]: on MBTI tests or any sort of personality assessment tests because they don't they answer the questions they're honest and more quote nor normative folks and clock them in a
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's, yeah, it's, it's really fascinating and we're, we're getting a car away from Florida, but now, but it is, you know, we're right in it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think we're, because that's, are we lower-handing?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's, yeah, I have a meta commentary here in this too.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know how you are with Mark on your podcast about music, the area, and history, and all that kind of stuff?
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like you talking to Mark.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm putting myself in your shoes, talking to Mark.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, talk about music stuff, and I'm just like, uh-huh, uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then you're talking it, and you're picking up on natural.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're like, oh, no, that's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then here, Mark says, like, you got it, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't do that.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, he knows that I respond really well to praise.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which is the truth.
[SPEAKER_05]: But sometimes I do actually get it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, you do.
[SPEAKER_05]: I heard you get it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that, like, on our pod, it's easy to get, like,
[SPEAKER_05]: um above your head in these things stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well that's how I'm right now with the psychology stuff.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well really okay yeah it's interesting we always talk in this metaway and our podcast about how we forget that we know stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: As I'm explaining this to you, I'm looking at your face and I'm like, oh, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's add back in.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: So back on the the encoding decoding thing, there's guys Stuart Hall who put all this together.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they are sort of
[SPEAKER_03]: three ways that he's, you know, they're, they're, they're just markers on a spectrum, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You can, you can, you can strongly agree with something, you can strongly disagree with something or you can have sort of a hybrid model of what we see is coming at us and we can go, okay, I kind of get that, but I'm interpreting it this way.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the idea of interpretation really does come to that subjective thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I come from a particular culture, a particular socio-economic background.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a particular experiences in my life.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've had different memory encodings, and I've taken different lessons from my life.
[SPEAKER_03]: In our theory world, in art world, and in our theory world,
[SPEAKER_03]: We often talk about how an art piece is not complete until it's viewed until there's an interaction with the intended audience And as much as I want to do as a creator to encode a meaning I could even say this is the meaning people go But he's not you know that is not the meaning because I'm saying is this and I think they're you know doing a switcheroo or what have you and
[SPEAKER_03]: the idea that we are all subjectively coming to you know bringing our whole selves and our whole lived experience to this which I think is an interesting thing when we then look at the joint because as you were saying before they have access to all of this information and so what is what is a response what is information
[SPEAKER_03]: I think on the discord, there was even a conversation before, what about art?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do we need art anymore when we're joined?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because there's, and you know, is do we need grit?
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you know, to your question of grit and Carol's characteristics that we're seeing on screen, what is life in this joint state versus not?
[SPEAKER_03]: And so Gordon Smith, who's the credited writer for this, but the writers room,
[SPEAKER_03]: What were they trying to encode for us about the meaning of the joint?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's interesting, and I feel so much sadness at this prospect of life without art, life without grit.
[SPEAKER_05]: life with that just feels so utilitarian, like is that even life, like isn't life, those dark moments, isn't life creativity and finding spark and finding grit and resilience, like isn't that isn't the life getting up at the early Sunday morning to podcast with your friends, and you know, and all the the rises and falls of that, like I imagine just
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Even the lack of talking in this world is right out.
[SPEAKER_05]: That like, I don't even, I love human interaction.
[SPEAKER_05]: I love exchange of ideas, and maybe it's all happening.
[SPEAKER_05]: But we don't, as a viewer, we don't get it.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're not part of that.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's kind of a critique I have of the show as I would love to hear the internal monologue.
[SPEAKER_05]: I would love to like, because we're losing the dialogue between them and they're so mysterious because we don't know what's happening behind the scenes.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder, I don't think we'll get it, but I wonder if at any point we'll get an episode from a joint perspective that we can hear the mental chatter, because how do you turn it out?
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't even turn off my own individual mental chatter.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got some comments about that coming up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there's an interesting thing that occurs.
[SPEAKER_03]: With mammals, we have a lot of musculature in our face, and especially around our eyes, all mammals do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And part of our...
[SPEAKER_03]: pattern making and our threat response is looking at another mammal and thinking is this animal content, or agitated, or hungry, or feeling defensive, so we have a lot of interpretive skills in our mammalian brains to interpret the behavior of other mammals.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's one of the reasons I think, I'm sure there's research about this, but I might have picked this up from somewhere from the hive mind, that one of the reasons that people are unnerved.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some people are unnerved by snakes and reptiles, is that there is no, or sharks.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is no emotional,
[SPEAKER_03]: outward projection of the face and eye muscles to indicate status, the internal emotional status of that organism.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we don't have conflict and dialogue and the zo-shut talking to the pilots and people discussing things
[SPEAKER_03]: it all happens very seamlessly.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's unnerving.
[SPEAKER_05]: It is very unnerving.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's maybe why it is this.
[SPEAKER_05]: They are, especially in that scene with the grocery store.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're like, it's pod people.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Long bees.
[SPEAKER_05]: and what a win.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are the funniest scenes for me was when the pilots were spontaneously telling Carol about their combined flying hours and the capable aircraft.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there was three people talking to Carol in that scene and they were all just flawlessly, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: injecting the next piece of information that it was funny to me it made me giggle.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mindful and synchronized and sterile.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's creeping me out.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's creeping me out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I went to before we talk a little bit more about Carol and affected empathy and talk about her reactions to a couple of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did just a quick sci-fi shout out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did think about the Voight Comfort Test from Blade Runner.
[SPEAKER_03]: which is a test that measures physiological response to a bunch of cross-referenced questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like a polygraph and it which is objective, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because you're taking a bunch of
[SPEAKER_03]: physiological markers, and then subjectively interpreting those, but there is the primary data is physiological.
[SPEAKER_03]: So in the Void Compt Test and in Blade Runner, they're looking at your eye and they're measuring blood flow and dilation and how the skin contracts and sweating and all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that goes back into that question of when Carol is
[SPEAKER_03]: activated in when the guy in Paraguay, right, when she calls back and she gets so angry, she has to go into going to the bathroom to calm herself down.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's really easily affected by this thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this guy said something to her and her, both emotional and physiological
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just right, it's just, it's just, it's okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which is going to, like, that says something because that's, that's going to regulate you in most cases.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, this, when she, when she, that bathroom shot really got to me and that's when I started really.
[SPEAKER_05]: understanding the perspective of our listeners with the plain seat thing that like she's in danger she feels trapped she feels like the world is closing in around her and nothing says that more than an airplane bathroom.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And just the angles of that shot and how it was set up, um, really hammered that home.
[SPEAKER_05]: For me, we see it similar cinematography later with the grenade scene, which is like a handheld camera and it gets kind of shaky.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, behind the scene, the official podcast talked a bunch about how they actually did that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: They actually disconnected the lens from the camera physically to create that judder effect.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was like beautiful in a way that it did make you feel...
[SPEAKER_05]: the way the character was feeling.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that when we talk about empathy, right, in this idea of cognitive empathy versus effective empathy.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, cognitive empathy is, oh, let's back up.
[SPEAKER_05]: Empathy is just understand.
[SPEAKER_05]: What is empathy, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, what is empathy?
[SPEAKER_05]: It is different from sympathy, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Sympathy is you feel bad for someone, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Empathy is you understand how a person is feeling because allegedly
[SPEAKER_05]: We get into empathy challenges with people that are have certain personality disorders, but that's not what this conversation is about.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, affective empathy is feeling with someone, like if someone's mad around you, you'll get mad to or someone's crying around you, you'll you'll feel sadness.
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of the kids today say like, oh, I'm an empath.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm an empath, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I feel with other people.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I pick up on the energy of the room.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like that is what we would call affective empathy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Um,
[SPEAKER_05]: There's no right or wrong hair or better or worse, but there are two different kinds.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't hold a lot of affective empathy as a human.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm much more towards cognitive empathy that if someone's angry around me or sat around me, I'll understand why they're feeling that way.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll relate to it because at some point in time, I've been sad or angry too, but I'm not gonna feel it in real time with that person.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm just gonna internalize it cognitively.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, Carol,
[SPEAKER_05]: I am trying to figure out where she lies on this affective versus cognitive empathy spectrum, because she doesn't regulate her emotions that well.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't think she understands other people's perspectives that well.
[SPEAKER_05]: But we don't have enough information yet.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: You know that if someone yells at her, right, or after this phone conversation, she was affected by it, so she's feeling,
[SPEAKER_05]: She has remorse, which does something bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: She feels a certain way about it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I don't think she's really clued into how other people could feel.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I think it was demonstrated by meeting the other unjoined.
[SPEAKER_03]: And for she's like, we got to do something and they're like, why?
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, what do you mean why?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or when she's leaving and then she's got to go back and kind of be mean to, I forget the character's name.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's different things.
[SPEAKER_03]: But about her responses to her environment are all being demonstrated for us on screen here.
[SPEAKER_05]: Again, she doesn't seem at all empathetic to the joint, but I really need more.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't wait to watch this character develop to see how when she gets really like genuine interpersonal interaction, because we haven't seen that much except for with Helen, and the guy in the ice pal, like the matron here, the concierge of the ice palace, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: We're not really seeing her interact with unjoined people.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's actually a really good point because even in episode one, we never see her interact with anyone, but well, no, all except for her fan club, but then she's that's performed.
[SPEAKER_05]: So fake.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So fake about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's so funny even to go back to what Apple TV dropped in the book.
[SPEAKER_05]: There's like an author's note in the book.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's all her authors note as Carol is so superficial, like so, like sing songy, that is just such a different representation than the Carol we see in the show.
[SPEAKER_05]: That is a very much of mask and very much like a sterilized version of her, which ironically is what she probably
[SPEAKER_03]: Great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Great.
[SPEAKER_05]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's move on.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I think it's some good insight.
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, the show is inviting us to analyze Carol and to bring ourselves to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's what the show is about.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is about Carol and Racy Horne's performance.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's talk a little bit about the life of the join.
[SPEAKER_03]: We got some feedback about that ABC Zagfu friend of the pod said that episode three raised questions about what the joiner doing day to day besides cleanup, which is done eventually.
[SPEAKER_03]: where the eating, besides being vegan, will food need to be streamlined throughout the population or our individual choices allowed.
[SPEAKER_03]: There could be many instances where everyone is thinking the same way, just wouldn't work, what other limits to the hive mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, Jean, one of our co-hosts on the lower hounds, said it has them thinking that about the matrix movies and what the architectural need to Neo about humans rejecting the first iteration of the matrix.
[SPEAKER_03]: They rejected it because it was perfect.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was no conflict.
[SPEAKER_03]: The mind would not accept it.
[SPEAKER_03]: The human mind would not accept it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Could this happen here?
[SPEAKER_03]: Could Carol and or others
[SPEAKER_03]: by showing those in the hive that there could still be a choice in how to exist.
[SPEAKER_05]: I hope so.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think this will come up a little bit later when we get to the thing about the power being shut off, but yet what are I think and we've heard it set a couple of times that they have a biological imperative.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now that
[SPEAKER_03]: Humanity is joining to do a single purposeful conscious, and we're not spending a lot of time in effort in terms of just managing ourselves and our managing our interpersonal relationships from individual to individual all the way up through nation states, what's left to do?
[SPEAKER_03]: And what is the thing?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think we'll have some theories about that later.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I think it opens it up.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then I think John's comment goes to your great question, like, what is life with that?
[SPEAKER_03]: We, in the Matrix movies, we rejected the Matrix because they were perfect, because there was an imperfectness, there wasn't friction between people.
[SPEAKER_05]: Hmm, I think that I'm excited to see what happens with the hive mind.
[SPEAKER_05]: I really, to the previous point too, I really wanted an episode from that perspective.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: They really want a deep dive into that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was thinking too if we have this other character if we're going to spend an episode with that person.
[SPEAKER_03]: And just jump, maybe the episode four is just going to be like that dude, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like from the beginning.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like I need him.
[SPEAKER_05]: I need to know what's up with this guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: I run it to be like a Lex Luther villain in a bunker somewhere, just like surrounded by MRAs.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's around one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So a couple of the things that are keep coming up about individualism and consciousness is the question of asthma and the foundation series and the robotics laws.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Marilyn, who's one of our other co-hosts and our favorite Tolkien scholar, is not going to be watching the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: because it is not her salad that's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, but he's listening to podcast and reading the blog posts and all the stuff that she had.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a point to it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I honestly really great at like protecting her piece.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that like that's some that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: To heaven.
[SPEAKER_05]: Alan, we love you.
[SPEAKER_03]: To have that as an example in our community of a way to participate without directly engaging in the text is a really great example that like we can see, you know, that's a new possibility.
[SPEAKER_03]: I hadn't ever thought about that before like, oh, I could just listen and not watch, you know, it's pretty great.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what I'm doing with the it, the welcome to dairy and not.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Listening to it and it's great.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's good content.
[SPEAKER_03]: So she says from what she's gathered, pluralist reminds me extraordinarily of a basic plotline in the final book in Asimov's Foundation series, a foundation in Earth.
[SPEAKER_03]: The question, is it better to be part?
[SPEAKER_03]: of a mass of individuals or be part of a collective consciousness because Harry Selden and that he uses mathematics to predict human behaviors and there are minor spoilers, there are some people who have some mental abilities.
[SPEAKER_03]: I won't go further into that if you
[SPEAKER_03]: There is that thing, and so that is there, and then that activated some feedback from Zatouichi and Rocky Zim to subscribers and great community members, and this is a little bit of a paraphrasing.
[SPEAKER_03]: If the joined will do anything Carol wants, can she ask them to make a cure for the world?
[SPEAKER_03]: and maybe asking for a cure goes against the three directives.
[SPEAKER_03]: So looking at the robotics laws that, as a mob invented or theorized about, rule number one, a robot may not injure a human being or through an action, allow a human being come to harm.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they violated that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: A robot must obey all orders given to it by human beings except where such order would conflict with the first law.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the third law is a robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the first or second law.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then, as a mob went back, came back later.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I should say there's a whole bunch of other authors who've written other laws and interpretations.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we, this is a
[SPEAKER_03]: common theme throughout a lot of science fiction, but as a mom went back and added a zero with law, and these are right in order, these are hierarchical directives, the added zero with law, a robot may not injure humanity or through an action allow humanity to come to harm.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't see that.
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't see that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: We get to whether you reject the collective or want to be part of the collective, I think we'll then orient you to how you interact with the joint beyond the physiological need.
[SPEAKER_03]: Carol throws away the breakfast.
[SPEAKER_05]: Ah, I was a pause.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like I think it's just because all I do is like I tend to other people at the stage of my life.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm in this same much generation moment.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's someone presented me with like a closed beautiful breakfast at my doorstep.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which was based on a breakfast that you had had that you were adored at the original time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I'd have to get over the like,
[SPEAKER_05]: Weird weirdness of it all, but I I mean eat that breakfast and then she goes and she eats like a microwave meal from sprouts like all right Like to take the food, but I know I get it like she's trying to like have a standoff with these people
[SPEAKER_03]: And in this really weird dynamic tension for what we'll get into in the supermarket scene, which really illuminates that quite a lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's weird, it's weird, and it doesn't make me like her more.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think I'm just hungry for someone to present me with a perfect breakfast, like what we're looking for.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we need to see the...
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't have Carol in real, and so whenever we see Carol with Helen, we're like, ah, you know, here's this duo and there's something where now it's just straight Carol and she's angry and bitter and that's hard to, and it's like also really annoying because when she's with Helen, Helen's doing everything for her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Helen's like making sure she's in the car, making sure she's like at the ice hotel having she's like, Helen's the leader and making sure Carol's and taking care of Carol, always professionally and personally.
[SPEAKER_05]: Do you want some gum, do you need anything at the shop?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, here you go.
[SPEAKER_05]: And now, in this joined world, really Helen still trying to take care of Carol, and she's resisting it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: And she's got a way for me, but that's like, she's like threatened by it, but before she wasn't threatened by it, she was like, dismissive of it almost.
[SPEAKER_03]: Revenant kind of thing, Helen's a live somewhere.
[SPEAKER_03]: What is a memory of a loved one who's passed?
[SPEAKER_03]: And if we have a family member who's passed and we collectively have memories about that person, how physiologically they're not alive, but in memory they're alive.
[SPEAKER_05]: Dude, you can now, I just saw, like you can upload three minutes of footage of a deceased family today and they can like talk to you
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's so messed up to me, like, I don't know, there's something I would saw, I like saw it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I saw the commercial for this product and it made me think of this show because it seems like a sterilized version of people you love and that must be what the joint or like, I don't know, I really don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you ever listen to this American life?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there was the, I forget the name of the bull,
[SPEAKER_03]: this beloved.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they like blown to the moon.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like would you want a clone?
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, and this goes into this question of where I can have sympathy?
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that the right word for Carol and I can try to be?
[SPEAKER_03]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but but that she's grieving.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's grieving the loss of Helen D. I feel bad for her.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can understand how she's feeling it to some extent without this layer of the, you know, the hive mind.
[SPEAKER_05]: We just kind of are directly to that.
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I can understand her anger for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the whole like survivors guilt of it all.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I don't know, I can't wait to get into the scene by scene because I think there's going to be a lot to unpack there as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think there's a perfect transition.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's take another little break and then we'll start to go through our scene by scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Before we get into our scene by scene, we do have an email feedback from your fellow.
[SPEAKER_03]: and host a film host, you found Mark.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mr. Mark, also known as counterpoint on the district, sent in an email.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just finished the second episode and looking forward to listening to your pod.
[SPEAKER_03]: Apologies, if you've already covered any details, but figured I get this question in before episode three drops.
[SPEAKER_03]: loving the show, but I guess I'm a little confused as to the timeline where Pluribus fits in in the overall continuity.
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, this can't be another prequel.
[SPEAKER_03]: Gilligan has hasn't really shown much worry towards the apparent age progression of his actors, so a prequel would be possible despite Rea Seahorne being a few years older.
[SPEAKER_03]: But still, the fact that Chuck doesn't appear to be gallevanting around Albuquerque, and the Mauritini and Guy seems obviously a past user of some blue meth.
[SPEAKER_03]: It seems fair to say, this is at least in the back half of the continuity.
[SPEAKER_03]: But beyond that, win is this in the empty space between the end of Jimmy and Kim's relationship and before the Jean era, that seems possible.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if that's true, I would expect things to go
[SPEAKER_03]: But it also could be after that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if that's the case, why is she living in Albuquerque again?
[SPEAKER_03]: Shouldn't she be in Florida?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why has she changed her name?
[SPEAKER_03]: To Carol, even though she kept her name throughout the other series.
[SPEAKER_03]: Granted, I haven't seen El Camino yet, and I don't really know where that fits into the chronology.
[SPEAKER_03]: In any case, I know Nicole hasn't seen Better Call Saul yet, but I figured with David, there you guys would have enough touch points and the overall universe to be able to make some approximations.
[SPEAKER_03]: as to which phase we're in.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe the next episode will open up with the musical montage putting it all together.
[SPEAKER_03]: Tong in cheek Mark.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mark.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is Mark like flexing about how much he knows about better call Saul.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I think bad.
[SPEAKER_05]: And like.
[SPEAKER_05]: A poor sweet Nancy, sweet dear Nancy, gets this email, this kind of fresh email for Mark, if I'm being honest, and reparing it in such a lovely way.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's just like, oh, you must be a little bit confused.
[SPEAKER_05]: This isn't like part of the Vince Gilligan, like, sort of like timeline.
[SPEAKER_05]: And Mark felt really bad about that.
[SPEAKER_05]: He felt really bad, I think.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mark, next time, you need to give us a voicemail.
[SPEAKER_05]: You need to call in or what I'm calling, but let's say this is a voicemail.
[SPEAKER_05]: Because we need your perspective on here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, and that I'm trying to read it in this way, you know, with,
[SPEAKER_03]: We hear me, yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, or just know myself, but like trying to wink that, you know, hey, imagine this, it was, though, like imagine if at the end of this, we actually do, it does fit into that universe.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, and that's like the big shamalan moment of the end.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, well, let's take a look.
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks Mark.
[SPEAKER_03]: On the it's coverage with Alicia right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're having a lot of fun with that.
[SPEAKER_05]: I bet they are.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Mark's a real Stephen King nerd.
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're getting into it.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's another one that has like, how do you have time to do all these things?
[SPEAKER_05]: And he does all these things.
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, oh yeah, and I also read like the newest Stephen King in like two minutes.
[SPEAKER_05]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: scene one episode opens with a flashback of Carolyn Helen visiting an ishotel in Norway seven years before present day.
[SPEAKER_03]: Helen is full of enchantment and excitement for the adventure holiday.
[SPEAKER_03]: Carol complains about everything and only cares about where her latest book releases on the best seller list.
[SPEAKER_03]: Something I noticed in this was that we've seen a couple of scenes
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm wondering what that tells us about her character, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because they made a point of the moving the books on the vertical stack, Helen, they look over and Helen looks at Carol and Carol gives her the nod.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then she says, I'll get you, quote, I'll get you some gum as pre-taxed for moving the books.
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, all I can figure is at some point in her life Carol learned that love is conditional.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm like going back to Carol's family.
[SPEAKER_05]: I need to know everything about Carol's family.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I know that people purposely disconnect from their family for a variety of reasons, for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: But it seems like Carol puts a lot of value in being wanted and being a commodity.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I know, when we think about adult theories of adolescent development, child development, we're not going to deep dive into that right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I know that that parenting style matters towards that as an adult.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'm wondering about that piece quite a bit when she's really interested in.
[SPEAKER_05]: her sales and and people validating her because she doesn't present to someone that wants external validation, but I do think she needs it for happiness, which is I hope is an interesting thing that we see throughout.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're not setting it up for no reason, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Didn't see his previous point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this goes back to the open text thing and the encoding like what what they've opened up these questions.
[SPEAKER_03]: They haven't resolved them, which means that
[SPEAKER_03]: But regardless of whatever we're interpreting, there's an encoded meaning and a decoded meaning.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're litigating that on the litigating in a good way, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: We're discussing, we're debating it, we're vigorously examining meaning.
[SPEAKER_05]: So, about the ISOTile, like the bathroom thing really could not confuse me.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I was like, how was that working?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, is it really?
[SPEAKER_05]: Is it?
[SPEAKER_03]: These are the things, these are a real thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: I know that there are things I'm curious about them, but I'm not sleeping in an ice hotel.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I'd like to go check one out, like the cocktail from a dream.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like an ice cup, like that's cute.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can get into that, but there's no universe that exists.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't care about multiverse here in.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sleeping in an ice bed.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not like peeing in an ice bathroom, like no.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a, well, I will say on it, this is a little bit closed text because there was quite a degree of agreement that nobody is sleeping on an ice bed, so we're I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll look at pictures of paraphrasing, but I'll look at pictures of an ice hotel from a nice, a very nice four-star hotel, like five-star, that sounds great.
[SPEAKER_05]: But Nancy Clarifies things for us, everything we need to know, one ice hotel, the bathrooms are down the hall because it is a heated room and the pipes would freeze if it wasn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I'd just be in the shower, I'd be in the hot tub and like drinking from ice cup until it's time to go back to like the rits or whatever down the street.
[SPEAKER_05]: Are you a rickstie use fan I also know I mean I'm not not a fan.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't have like animosity towards rickstives, but I just don't I like his vibe no, I like the idea of it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like the the Bob Ross of travel.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like Emma of a different generational cohort and we didn't have a lot of tricks, Deves.
[SPEAKER_03]: My family's from Seattle and he's from Seattle and so he was kind of a favorite son and my parents definitely enjoyed.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Watching him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a big stoner.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a big legal weed guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was a lot of weed.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, the tracks, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: For following his Bob Ross analogy.
[SPEAKER_05]: But they referenced Deves a couple of times in this episode, which is interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I wanted to go back and deep dive into that.
[SPEAKER_05]: But that was an interesting touchstone to call back.
[SPEAKER_03]: Was it just a writer kind of winkin' a nod, you know?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I think for me it was a way to connect past, Carol, and present day, Carol.
[SPEAKER_05]: Just as a little bit like a little bit of writing call back to how, you know, there are these unconscious threads that we throughout our lives,
[SPEAKER_05]: Then we hop back into kind of post-virus, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: We're counting up with the next meeting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're counting up with the next meeting.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think I said this before.
[SPEAKER_03]: The clock is important until it's not.
[SPEAKER_03]: And while it's not important to the plot, it's a orientation device for us as the audience.
[SPEAKER_05]: And even when the episode started, I didn't register if the clock just come top or down.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was watching.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, are we in the future?
[SPEAKER_05]: Way in the future, way in the past.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, who's she with?
[SPEAKER_05]: They have scarves over their face.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, I felt very disoriented at the start of this episode.
[SPEAKER_05]: I immediately paused and did the math.
[SPEAKER_05]: We had to go back and watch it because we missed it and like where are we right now?
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that that is I love that.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like, you know, I'm connecting this to Lost quite a bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's like when season two of Lost Stars and you go you're like in the hatch with Desmond And he's like mixing smoothies and riding the bike and you're like, do I have the wrong channel?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like is this Lost?
[SPEAKER_05]: What am I?
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, and that's how I felt when this episode started.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and then I think when, again, these, this is structurally reading what's there.
[SPEAKER_03]: People who are doing this with about power and about the nuclear football and some other things that I think to clock, like I said, when it becomes important, it will be important,
[SPEAKER_03]: Then the clock will be important to us in terms of a reference like she has only two days or six months or whatever, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: There's there's suddenly now we have something to track our time against and that's a really good device in drama and storytelling is to set a clock where the stakes will change after a certain time
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think it's going to be important when we do see other characters to go and see where how their progression that we can track these other characters.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, this is like day one for this guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Very good point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, really.
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that that's where it's going to come up more for me is when we start following the other people of my hope at some point.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, Carol.
[SPEAKER_05]: We'll have a marker reference time to like how to like line them up exactly great device.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, seeing to Carol is flying back home after the spin summit, Zosa is unbored with her.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was obviously successful in stopping the plane going on to Air Force 1.
[SPEAKER_03]: She demands that Zosa connect her with the man from Paraguay who's not effective affected Carol and the man trade obscenities over the phone in Spanish.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, she isn't joined up if she's swearing at him, but whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's Norles on the Discord was like, I love that Carol, Carol telling the Paraguay guy to f-off will be his tip that she's cool and not joined by that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't even, that didn't even occur to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just so taken with Carol's response to the phone call.
[SPEAKER_03]: And just the comedy of the scene, it was so, it was staged so brilliantly, the way the phone passing and the cord.
[SPEAKER_05]: And yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: or my prediction is that we're going to start, we're going to see his perspective of that phone call.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's when he's going to self-actualize with, oh, I have to go find her.
[SPEAKER_05]: I bet the next episode is going to be following him from the beginning, and it's going to end with that phone call when he does.
[SPEAKER_05]: And to like, OK, I have to go find this woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: So Nicole's putting pushing some chips in on.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's betting some for an appointment.
[SPEAKER_05]: I need to see what's up with this Paraguay guy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I can't have Carol grocery shop anymore.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'd like to show you to be visually interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the lorehouse community, you can trade your internet points in for cereal.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the... No, okay, that's the little joky part of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll take it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Deep lore, before that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Scene 3, anything else on this?
[SPEAKER_05]: No, we talked a lot about the bathroom scene, which I thought was like pretty...
[SPEAKER_05]: I like, it made me feel a certain way that was really powerful that bathroom scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: I really related to that feeling of trapped.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love the pilots.
[SPEAKER_03]: The pilots were great too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I love social's outfit.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought she was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was like, where can I get that?
[SPEAKER_05]: So those are my hot takes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Apple merch, baby.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like we want the outfits.
[SPEAKER_03]: Scene three.
[SPEAKER_03]: Zoja drops Carol off at home.
[SPEAKER_03]: But first hands are a pile of mail that was in transit before the world changed.
[SPEAKER_03]: Currier box.
[SPEAKER_03]: With a handheld massage device, confuses Carol and when she asks, she finds out that it was a surprise gift from Helen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Carol demands that the joint never think or speak of Helen ever again.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, okay, Carol, sounds good.
[SPEAKER_03]: So then later on, when things would come up, I would think back, okay, well, who else was around that would have known that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, at the Isotelle, when she can front her about the Isotelle, I told you not to talk to her anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, there was a dude there, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that we saw that would have had that memory, assuming he survived, like that would have, so they could be following her wishes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it goes to the point of, we live in a web of social relationships.
[SPEAKER_03]: We are not rugged individuals, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: We may be rugged and have a lot of grit.
[SPEAKER_03]: but we are not disconnected from society, no matter how much we stay in, you know, whatever, however we pattern our life, we don't live our life without being dependent on other people.
[SPEAKER_05]: There are like people that are in, I think of it as like the wallpaper of our life, like the individuals we come across there, just like in the wallpaper on the wallpaper of our life.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like people you pass in the street or people that take your coffee shop order, like they're irrelevant to your storyline,
[SPEAKER_05]: Give an impression to them.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's bothering me about the show as we don't have many of those people We don't have like extra like we have extras as part of the high, but where is everybody?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like what do they that's another what are they all doing?
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it's a really good question Like where are they?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I hope we get there soon.
[SPEAKER_03]: We get some more Theories people asking the same question later on.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so now she's zoned out on the couch
[SPEAKER_05]: She's watching the golden girls, the doorbell rings, a mandaliver's breakfast, but I need to pause here and talk about, she's not just zoned out.
[SPEAKER_05]: She, we see her taking meds both on the airplane and this is very mindful.
[SPEAKER_05]: The camera pans across a pill bottle on that coffee table.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, that's right, along with the CD because I got caught by the reflection in the CD realm of the film.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_05]: I missed the bill bottle.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was all about the pill bottle.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm like, what is she taking, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: She wasn't taking pills before.
[SPEAKER_04]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_05]: She wasn't.
[SPEAKER_05]: So she's acquired a prescription.
[SPEAKER_05]: And it's a prescription of essentially X and X, which is a benzodiazepine, which is anti-excirity, fast-acting anti-excirity, heavy duty.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_05]: Benzo Diaz of him is prescribed to people when they go through alcohol detox because alcohol is the only drug that you need to save medical detox from, where you can have seizures and die.
[SPEAKER_05]: So we often prescribe Benzo Diaz of him to folks that are in like heavy alcohol addiction to help them wien off of alcohol.
[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's taking these right and then
[SPEAKER_05]: She pours herself a glass of water, I think later in the scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: Later in the scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she goes, oh, fuck it.
[SPEAKER_05]: She goes, oh, fuck it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the water turns into vodka, which is, I'm sure you loved.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure you loved it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But that's to me.
[SPEAKER_05]: what I was thinking is she's taking meds to help her detox from alcohol because at the end of episode two, she goes, I don't want to be this way and you did a good point, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe she killed 11 million people, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So maybe this is where they're like here, take these, it will help you have a safe medical detox from this addiction, and then she goes, I'll fuck it and just goes for the vodka instead.
[SPEAKER_05]: And once you mix in those two, it's like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's going to ask about the, the, the, the, what are the country introductions or whatever I can't remember there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, I mean, you're not supposed to drink on Valium X, Benzosen, you know, operate heavy machinery.
[SPEAKER_03]: She should not be digging in the backyard.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, you know,
[SPEAKER_05]: I've been on an airplane and taken a valium and had a glass of wine.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't feel bad, that's for sure, not feeling bad, but it's a mine versus prohibited crime, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like it's not good for your body for sure, and but that's what I clocked a lot in this episode, about that that's like a subtext.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we had mentioned it in our last pod about her substance use.
[SPEAKER_05]: and what can be done about it, and that's what can be done about it.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's prescribed by those prescribes and exorvalium to offer a safe medical detox from alcohol.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think, because I freeze-framed that scene to confirm the spelling to follow through on the exanex thing, her name is on that label.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did they print that for her?
[SPEAKER_03]: Or did she have that prior?
[SPEAKER_05]: Can you get a date?
[SPEAKER_05]: And but we don't know where she is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we don't have date.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't have relative date.
[SPEAKER_03]: We only have the time clock.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which thing of the time clock, too, versus because we don't know when this is that adds to our... Can you look at the prescribing doctor?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's like somebody, okay, uh, uh, hi, he's go grab a, uh, and post it in the discord and scale again as the prescribing dog or something.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's like some because it's, it's mindful like they, they wouldn't have showed us that if it didn't matter.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, then they were who was the, was the, the first one if I'd let her's the al, yeah, al prize, a, al prize, al prize al am.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you can search it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you, did you watch White Lotus, this, no, I didn't watch the most come.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sanix figured quite strongly in the story line.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we, with John and I talked a bunch about it on on that pod.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the best one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_05]: There are no.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I did, yeah, I registered as like a, like a harm reduction or like a, no, not a reduction, but a way to lean off alcohol.
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, the first thing I thought of.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I just want you to bring that up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Flip's back, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and then we get the closh breakfast, and then what do you call it?
[SPEAKER_03]: The refrigerator scene, which is great, the way they open up the door and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: The reflection and the closh, all of that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like what a brat.
[SPEAKER_05]: The reflection and the closh was pretty great, but she's such a brat.
[SPEAKER_03]: Alright, here it goes to the grocery store to find it open, but the shelves are completely empty, using a store phone, she calls Oshia to find that the food has been removed for efficiency.
[SPEAKER_03]: She demands a back and in a classic, Vince Gilligan montage, trucks and people appear and restock the store.
[SPEAKER_03]: Kail grabs a cart and starts shopping.
[SPEAKER_03]: We get two needle drops in this scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: We get cognito by oxami.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's had to pronounce it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we also get a little bit of sweetest taboo.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye-shaday, as Carol's for something to shop.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Nancy did the math.
[SPEAKER_03]: She says it's about an hour and a half, about hour 40 minutes for them to restock the store.
[SPEAKER_03]: And on the official pod, they talk about how they did this, the store, that's a real store, sprouts is a real store.
[SPEAKER_03]: They filmed at an empty parking lot for us, an old Sears, and then they stitched everything together.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I giggled.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't laughing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wasn't gaffering.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was in chuckling.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was giggled.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're a good boy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: It seemed like I understand some critique about the grocery scene being a little bit much.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was like indulgent for sure.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that that's
[SPEAKER_05]: you want that.
[SPEAKER_05]: You need that little bit of like eye candy.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, and it was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, but there were some, yeah, some counter feedback.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Cincinnati Joe thought that grocery scene was a much, uh, it was like an exercise in filmmaking.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe that's the downside of following a show.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, close see, though, even before that scene, there seemed to be an abundance of,
[SPEAKER_03]: unusual camera angles and such took me out of the narrative for filmmaking to be so measured and conspicuous in this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the grocery store scene would have worked better if Carol hadn't been present like if after calling to complain about the store being empty she went home for a bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: They could show us the store being restocked and have our return afterwards.
[SPEAKER_03]: She could be dumbfounded that they completely filled it like she was stunned that they gave her the grenade.
[SPEAKER_03]: having her there made her look so self-centered and it doesn't make sense those trucks were fully stocked only minutes away.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's actually a pretty good point.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the fully stocked trucks could just roll rock up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like it was, I get that they're, um, it's very choreographed and everything's like dialed into each other, but still like logistically, it doesn't make a ton of sense.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the fact that they did fully stock it, I had to complete normal.
[SPEAKER_05]: It was like visually great, but like again.
[SPEAKER_03]: when she went to go get the cart and behind her there were some chip bags that were there like completely like you would expect to find that they went to that reach.
[SPEAKER_05]: She loves olives, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: But that's like a lot of olives, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: And all the, I was just thinking of the,
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they can buy and resources to be more efficient.
[SPEAKER_05]: But this is the most inefficient thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like all that protest is going to go to wait.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, they're going to have to go back in when she's done shopping and put all that protest way.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And just, I don't know, I think it was indulgent.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I liked it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I can see the counterpoint that, you know, and I think we got, we progressed the plot towards these and in other ways.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the grocery store scene work precisely because it highlighted Carol's hypocrisy.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could see Carol trying to smother the horror of the drawing realization of how selfish she was actually being, great acting, by the way, she says.
[SPEAKER_03]: The person does not change in an instant, most dig in their heels when they're confronted by that kind of cognitive dissonance.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we're starting to see like cracks in the understanding of where Carol fits in this world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that there is that Alicia really her words here about the donning realization, the horror of the what did I just do and she's really starting to feel like she's exploring the realm of her power in her words and what words mean.
[SPEAKER_03]: in this world, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: So she fills up her cart and just I guess walks out of the store with it.
[SPEAKER_05]: We're not using any more because what's the point.
[SPEAKER_05]: She takes more pills.
[SPEAKER_05]: She drinks some vodka with it instead.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's where we get this awesome water to vodka shot.
[SPEAKER_03]: It confused me so much at the beginning and then I want to watch on my second.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, I want to watch a fall.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's absolutely beautiful.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, and there was another one with the seat belt clicking when they turn off the seat belt sign.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: The seat belt sign then dissolves into her face.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, nerd, nerd, Randolph.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's absolutely beautiful.
[SPEAKER_05]: So she takes the power goes out and she calls Ocean who apologizes.
[SPEAKER_05]: And they call her.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I say like, oh, yes, I'm so sorry.
[SPEAKER_05]: We pressed her on button.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did you see the message on phones?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's us or something.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's us, Carol.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like who else would it be?
[SPEAKER_05]: I love those.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's so like, can't be in a way that's unexpected and that's why it makes me kind of giggle.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm giddy for it.
[SPEAKER_05]: So what happens next?
[SPEAKER_05]: She wants to know what would make Carol happy and Carol answers with there's nothing that a grenade would infect so she shows up with a grenade and then she invites her to have a drink.
[SPEAKER_05]: I was really hoping they would like
[SPEAKER_05]: kiss a little bit, but they didn't, that's fine, maybe later.
[SPEAKER_05]: Before long, Carol's angry and pulls the pin on the grenade, so she grabs the grenade and throws it out the window and tackles Carol, so calm too, but she gets really injured.
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess like the glass came in from the window and jumped her, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then Carol, so sweet, says I have to go call for help, but helps already on the way, like where I'm blind, like they now, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there was a lot, there was a lot of comments about this scene.
[SPEAKER_05]: What's our first one here?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was going to say on the official pod.
[SPEAKER_03]: they go into detail about how this was filmed and that for those who clocked it like I did and I didn't understand this at first.
[SPEAKER_03]: The grenade didn't do, grenade just kind of go poof, there's a little cloud of smoke, there's no flame and explosion, it blew up the truck.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I kind of think that there should have been a dual explosion, but that's technical, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the grenade went under the truck and then blew the truck up and then the the truck is what it really, really exploded.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and yeah, fragments and trapped in all when everywhere, right, and into Sosh's back.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the way they filmed it, how they set it up, how they pre-built the house for it, because they already knew, if you're into that stuff, go check out the official post.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was really the switch and the camera techniques in the scene were really jarring and disorienting in a way that I thought was really visceral.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I enjoyed quite a bit.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I love when you can like see the hand of the camera people.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can see there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, it goes really cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Even talk about how to getting the spoon to fly off in the right direction and how long that took that to like work that out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of you saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some critique or not critique, but some commentary on the scene, the TCS commented that they are surprised that Carol didn't say to Zosa in the conversation.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can throw the life-preserver to a drowning person, but that person still has to have agency to grab it or not.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that would really like pushed home this idea that Carol is an individual person.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then both Cincinnati, Joe, and Erin Kay had some comments wondering if the power outage indicates that they're moving everyone away to concentrated urban areas for efficiency, pack more people into apartment building, maximizing resources since we don't need to worry about, oh, like I can't share a room with this person, it doesn't matter, right, for these folks.
[SPEAKER_03]: So then Aaron was wondering if part of the conversation with the lights was to cover them to start pumping the R and A sequence out to the next closest habitable planets.
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Scientists said that in the episode, this is good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Co-finding here is that a signal like that they were witnessing takes an incredible amount of power.
[SPEAKER_05]: I wonder if now it moves to this closest and habitable planet, which we don't as Earthlings present a Earthlings, we, I just unclear what that would be where other people or beings are.
[SPEAKER_05]: If once it's spread to them, do they join the same collective hive mind as the people on Earth or do they get their own separate, like, close circuit?
[SPEAKER_05]: Good point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: What happens if you joined Alien Intelligence?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one thing that the show hasn't addressed is, does this RNA sequence affect other mammals?
[SPEAKER_03]: And if so, are they part of our collective?
[SPEAKER_05]: But then you have to think like if it's another alien, if it's an an alien, do they have R and A, or do they have sex?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there may be some conceit here just for the sake of the show, just to get it's Racy Ormite.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, okay, cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll just put the Diana Troy outfit on right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like what you're just going to empath all over the universe.
[SPEAKER_05]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I was going to shout out empath before shout out to the original series of Star Trek season 3 episode 12.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's an episode called the empath.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's where empathy as a cultural,
[SPEAKER_03]: topic, a topic of cultural discussion that Star Trek episode highlighted the idea of empathy in a to a mass market.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Empathy is the best one.
[SPEAKER_05]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: And all the patties.
[SPEAKER_03]: She seems to have in Carol waits for news about Josia in the hospital waiting room on this scene so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in dressed.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to DHL career.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, I'll fit comes to tell her that Josia will cover and thanks to the thanks to Carol's quick thinking.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, if Carol hadn't pulled the pin, but anyway, that's beside the point Carol wants to understand how it is they gave her a live grenade.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then tests with questions about whether they'd give her increasingly dangerous items culminating in an atom bomb.
[SPEAKER_03]: At this, he has a tates, but it meds that they would in the end give her one in an effort to make her happy.
[SPEAKER_03]: She tells him to go and then sits in silence and we see the gears turning in her mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we get a needle drop by son or by DACA Baraka, a song called Sonic, which I love as well.
[SPEAKER_05]: I really noticed like,
[SPEAKER_05]: The DHL outfit, uniform.
[SPEAKER_05]: Black socks, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, it was visually really striking, just like the color theory of it all, like in that scene to have such like bright, bold colors.
[SPEAKER_05]: But also it made me think a lot about how occupational prestige doesn't matter in this universe because we're all sharing information.
[SPEAKER_05]: Everyone's joined, knows everything.
[SPEAKER_05]: And the fact that there was a choice made,
[SPEAKER_05]: to have someone in a career uniform, which is relative, I mean, I don't want to get loaded, but compared to a doctor, we societally, like that's lower occupational prestige, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, it's a unskilled labor.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: We call it untrayed, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's that you didn't study academic ivory towers or whatever, you get trained in doing this thing and then you do the thing.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, but even that person is the one that's kind of,
[SPEAKER_05]: Close is available to deliver this information.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought about that a lot.
[SPEAKER_05]: I thought about back to the beginning of the episode when she gets the mail Yeah, and that delivery And how like we don't really need mailmen anymore.
[SPEAKER_05]: We don't need delivery people anymore So now they're being repurposed in other areas, but they haven't changed their clothes yet And I like thought about that more than I should have
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't see what I really got stuck on that piece.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like what are we going to do with all these mailmen now?
[SPEAKER_05]: Like we'll just have them be social workers at the hospital, I guess.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's the closest Indian and how do we distribute resources into?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because when we see in the hospital, the hospital is functioning.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: People are going by in wheelchairs and supplies are being delivered.
[SPEAKER_05]: Or because no matter if you're a hive mind you're not, like you break your leg, your legs broken.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: You need a bit of a week.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we see in episode one when she's driving the truck, that beautiful scene of looking back to the the rear window of the car, all of the action that's going on and somebody running up with a prosthetic, you know, part of a prosthetic and other people putting out fires.
[SPEAKER_03]: They care about the life of their fellow joint.
[SPEAKER_05]: Which is, that's why it's also really interesting about the electrical grid, too, because we will need breathing machines, people need basic infrastructure things that rely on electricity, but if we moved them, I don't know, there's a lot, I need an episode from the hive's perspective, like I need an episode, like what's happening there?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Shout out to Robert Bailey
[SPEAKER_03]: His acting was so sublime.
[SPEAKER_03]: He carried that same other energy The conflict on his face about well we would weigh the pros and cons with you about I was just loving his performance in portrayal He was the same thing from social in that episode too when she's like I would go with him whatever you guys want Like I know what I would want, but there's a driving force that's
[SPEAKER_05]: super seeding their individual ideas obviously.
[SPEAKER_03]: They have a biological imperative.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah a biological imperative.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh right and I think my question is like what's the purpose of this I think humanity has become a the purpose of humanity now is to replicate the RNA and to spread it as far as
[SPEAKER_03]: art commerce, love, empathy, right?
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm still like, I'm still struggling with that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, they're going through such lanes, just spread this RNA, like a consolidating resources in our hypothesis to like create more power, so they can like spread it to alien planets.
[SPEAKER_05]: But they're not, I know our rules are, they can't hurt humans.
[SPEAKER_05]: but they can let them hurt themselves, like why we're protecting, like they could have Carol would have died if she just helped that grenade.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that would have solved a problem for them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_05]: But they like protected her.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_05]: I just don't get it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And maybe I will soon.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that was a problem I had with this.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just tell me, I need a more hard and fast rule.
[SPEAKER_05]: Like fire, they're not just killing them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can never pronounce this name properly.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a brain breaker for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Banana, I am a banana, banana, banana, banana, and you know, we are.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, I appreciate you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just can't pronounce it right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they've been struck to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... how close to new king the planet would carol go to stop the joining
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, what a great question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: She didn't seem serious about it.
[SPEAKER_05]: She was seemed like she was just offering a thought problem to the DA child guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I don't think she would seriously do it.
[SPEAKER_05]: But then when they had the option, she was like, well, maybe I, you could see it in her face.
[SPEAKER_05]: She's so good.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe I could.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Take that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And and Briggs, you horns so inscrutable, her acting like you're like, oh, what is she?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah,
[SPEAKER_03]: Aaron Kaye, and I should mention, I shouted out Aaron Kaye earlier on another comment, but Aaron's also one of our affiliate co-hosts, or the radio active ramblers podcast, and they should carry it all out when it's coming out.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are our Gen Z cohort of the Laura Hounds network, so we were just talking about generational music theory, U and I and Mark, so that's my episode on Nevermind the Music.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's coming out a month or so.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Aaron says the new question was on the first time we saw the hive really take a moment to consider any of Carol's requests and even then they were reluctant to say yes to her.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is there a queen bee calling the shots or or the joined as a collective making that consideration?
[SPEAKER_03]: If the joined are willing to do nearly anything for the unjoined, does that almost make the
[SPEAKER_05]: I imagine it like Walter White is the queen bee.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is like just like a big bottle episode of like, I don't know if I'm using that right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Am I doing it?
[SPEAKER_03]: Of like a sheet of meaning.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, maybe that's it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Never mind the reason caught on point.
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe that's it.
[SPEAKER_05]: Mark.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think that there's a queen bee.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think so either.
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think there is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, watch and find out, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Waffle.
[SPEAKER_03]: We haven't used waffle in a while.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's it for all the feedback.
[SPEAKER_03]: There were some other feedback about robotics laws, so keep watching for robotics and how to hive and whether they're following that or not following that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's an interesting frame, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's an interesting contrast to put robotics laws.
[SPEAKER_05]: But you know what?
[SPEAKER_05]: I will say.
[SPEAKER_05]: Kudos to us.
[SPEAKER_05]: We've managed to make a podcast that's twice as long as the episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: We were more out.
[SPEAKER_05]: We were doing it.
[SPEAKER_05]: And we didn't, they're still so much.
[SPEAKER_05]: They're still so much on cover.
[SPEAKER_05]: I hope that episode four brings us to Paraguay.
[SPEAKER_05]: I hope we see a high-mind generative at some point soon.
[SPEAKER_05]: I got to get away from Carol.
[SPEAKER_05]: I do think I enjoyed this episode more after processing it out with you.
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_05]: But I understand Carol.
[SPEAKER_05]: I like, Gator, I don't need more information right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: I need other projects.
[SPEAKER_03]: We need to move the story.
[SPEAKER_05]: I need to move the story along.
[SPEAKER_05]: For me, so I'm sure Vince will be listening and then go back in time and make sure that that happens.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, if you're happy with the story and you need to move it along or you have some insights into Carol or DNA or tactical nuclear weapons, you can send to your feedback to Plurvis at Forhams.com.
[SPEAKER_03]: We love voicemails and we love emails.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do not be self-conscious.
[SPEAKER_03]: or worry about presentation, just send it in, Nancy will clarify any questions that you have and make you sound good on air.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, it is really the best way to share with the community and the hive mind as we're deconstructing the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Links in the show notes for everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: What is up with Nevermind the Music Nicole?
[SPEAKER_05]: uh... never mind the music we get a lot of good stuff coming out uh... just recently a great uh... at least a side track uh... we're talking about the superman movie but more about like what is punk like we would we branching off from our blondie conversation about punk rock
[SPEAKER_05]: And she had this great idea, like, is being hopeful, is being positive, punk right now.
[SPEAKER_05]: Really relating that to the Superman movie that has a lot of themes about hope, punk, and tying into some literary
[SPEAKER_05]: hope, hug, examples.
[SPEAKER_05]: So there's a really awesome conversation.
[SPEAKER_05]: You can check that out.
[SPEAKER_03]: This week, we have just really, really quick, just to interject on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That conversation was so provoking.
[SPEAKER_03]: And because I grew up adjacent to punk, you know, and as a beneficiary of punk, you know, I tried to be punk at one point.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you, of course, we were, you know, downchained from it, time-wise, and I always thought of punk in that sort of thrasher hardcore, you know, that never that it was this other ethos about DIY about challenging, so that conversation just really blew open whole locked concept I had about the word punk.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, like if punk is counter culture, right, and something to some extent, is it counter culture right now to be inclusive and hopeful and optimistic about the future and be hospitable to others.
[SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, it was really great.
[SPEAKER_05]: And then we have some upcoming episodes, I think this week we're dropping our don't let me down, but the chain smokers episode talking about rhythmic distortion, which is kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_05]: We just recorded a great side track with you talking with generational music, Theorem, and how
[SPEAKER_05]: there's an ebbin flow of different musical output compared and we can overlay that on different generations rising and falling too.
[SPEAKER_05]: So that was a really cool conversation that'll come out in a couple of weeks.
[SPEAKER_05]: What else do you have going on in the network elsewhere?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well as you know, Laura Hounds usual things are busy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Properly Howard is on a break but Anthony is running his
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Storm of Sores, I believe is the current one.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's doing every book chapter by chapter.
[SPEAKER_03]: So search for electric buccaloo for that radioactive ramblers should be coming back in December with fallout.
[SPEAKER_03]: On the main lower-hounds feed, obviously it, welcome to dairy, is getting coverage with Alicia and Mark.
[SPEAKER_03]: Tell a musk.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they're going to try and do a one shot when John gets back.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's on a little bit of a break right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: This week tonight as we speak.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm in a double pod today.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm that kind of guy Ken Burns the American Revolution a six part 12 hour mini series starts.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's run tonight and on PBS
[SPEAKER_03]: in the United States.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how you would get it internationally and if you're interested, but I'm sure it's available.
[SPEAKER_03]: Brian 863 and I who, Brian's a presidential historian in like properties is like property job.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: Brian is also our editor and chief of our blog.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you ever want to send in a blog post, if you got an idea or something like that, Brian will be the person that will work with you to get that up.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have an open submission policy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he is also been on a couple of other episodes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And anyway, he and I are going to get on the microphone every night after the American Revolution haires.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to record, I don't know, half hour, 45 minutes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, like a really reaction in podcast, not an analytics podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a template that we're going to follow so that we have some framework to make it easier for ourselves.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not just sort of spinning our wheels.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to cover it every night, except for Monday because I have a little one-day business trip that I'm not going to be back in time to cover it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, once we finished that, thereafter at some point, Marilyn, who is also, she's a research librarian.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's grew up in the Northeast and participated in a lot of American Revolutionary history, downchained stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: And is also an expert on mythology and all of those kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this can learn's show is going to unpack a lot of that, how messy the revolution really was and how they're all these different factions and beliefs and communities and and divergent views within those communities as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're I'm like super excited for this.
[SPEAKER_05]: It's awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: I believe in you that you can do a half hour recap podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a template.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's where we're relying a lot on the template.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's also so.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was super excited.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so lore-houndy stuff too.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Brian is a, as a historian, and then when we do the recap of Marilyn, it's going to be a great, great perspective.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got a one shot coming up for Predator Badlands.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't enjoy spoiler, I didn't, or alert, I don't know whatever, I didn't enjoy the movie as much, Alicia really enjoyed it, and I don't know where John is, he has been mum on the topic, so the three of us are going to get together and talk about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think it was a bad movie, I just, it wasn't my salad, so.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's definitely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Frankenstein, Alicia's working on still on her Frankenstein project.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's coming up and then for subscribers.
[SPEAKER_03]: We just had our second breakfast pie episode, which was a lot of fun, Alicia and I had a lot of fun talking about pie and the community.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was one of the most we had so much feedback from everybody about pie.
[SPEAKER_03]: and, you know, doesn't have a crust on the top or is it just a junkie or a rat?
[SPEAKER_05]: What's your favorite pie?
[SPEAKER_05]: Can we give it a little closer?
[SPEAKER_03]: Right now, on the savory side, it's a pumpkin pie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I love pumpkin pie, but it's got to have a whipped cream or ice cream with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, for the sweet pie, my sister makes a banana cream pie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is really become the family favorite for all of us in birthdays and holidays and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It gets made quite quite regularly.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, nice.
[SPEAKER_03]: We had our Robert Redford film festival film pick that we're going to do for 11 seas and subscribers can vote on which film that you can vote that we're going to watch and then talk about and if I remember right it was barefoot in the park from 1967.
[SPEAKER_03]: Butch Cassidy and the Sundeads kid from 1969 all the presidents min from 1976 and out of Africa from 1985 Brian and his sister helped me go through all 44 films to get to 11 so that we can vote on those and then that'll be out for subscribers later this month when we get that reported.
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... we also have a what you're watching on the shark is broken that's with the lore master do seven you want it's a play about the making of the movie jaws it was a lot of them that's cool it's very cool yeah and uh... i think john and leash are going to get together and talk about uh... do a what you're watching on the wicker and then i also recorded uh... a podcast with uh... isha from every single sci-fi film ever about big trouble in little china that's already out for her subscribers and i just got to do a quick added on it and get it out for ours so
[SPEAKER_03]: As usual, plenty of content for your ears.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I feel exhausted running that little mess.
[SPEAKER_03]: We did it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, we haven't hit a three-hour mark though yet, so you're lying.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe today is the day.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not today.
[SPEAKER_03]: As always, we'd like to give a shout out to our supporters.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you want to give a quick shout out to the Discord server boosters?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we have our Discord server boosters, Aaron K. To learn the thriller, Dov71, Athena, Adjelia.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Adjelia, yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nancy M. Ghost of Partition, Radio Act of Richard and Adrian.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yes, do you want to do the Laura Masters?
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I'm into it.
[SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Samaritan, Michael G. Samaritan.
[SPEAKER_05]: Samaritan?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_05]: I believe it's ready.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'm helping you.
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying to help you.
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, watch Samaritan right in and go.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's Samaritan.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've got it all wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was right.
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Michael G. Michelle E. S. C. Peter O. Nancy M. Peter O. H. Yeah.
[SPEAKER_05]: Nancy M, dove 71, Brian 863, Frederick H, Sarah L, Garth C, Aja B, Androby, Androby, Kwan U, Nathan II, Sub-Zero, Aaron K, Daly B, Mother Ship 61, Nars,
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I said it was a question.
[SPEAKER_05]: Kathy W was too old, Jeffrey B, Alisa U, Ben B, Scott F, Stephen M, Julia F, Callie S, Ill Mario, Ill Mario, Ill Mario, I love that.
[SPEAKER_05]: Paul K, Rocky Zim, Jessica H, Red Zippy, the TCS,
[SPEAKER_05]: dopaminey, catch it, and aid dream.
[SPEAKER_03]: Who's always last, but never, sorry, you can choose any one of the menus.
[SPEAKER_05]: Good things to come from those who are last.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can request as a loremaster, but you're positioned in your adjectives or adverbs or whatever you want.
[SPEAKER_05]: That's kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: We cater to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good job.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good job for the first time.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have these.
[SPEAKER_03]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because we've sent them.
[SPEAKER_03]: They are a lovely bunch and without them we could not produce this podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, if you're interested in supporting the podcast and making sure that we can do this and making sure that everyone's time is acknowledged and taken care of in subscriptions or the best way currently because add dollars for pickle and whatnot, but we appreciate it all so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you're not able to support, it's cool, you're here, you're here.
[SPEAKER_03]: part of the community, regardless, and so, thanks for showing up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Nicole, to give him always a pleasure.
[SPEAKER_05]: This is awesome.
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't wait till next week.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Laura Hound podcast has produced and published by the Laura Hounds.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can send questions and comments to Laurahounds at thewarhounds.com.
[SPEAKER_03]: Get ad free access to all Laura Hound's podcasts on Patreon or Supercast.
[SPEAKER_03]: And connect with us on Blue Sky and Join us on our Discord server.
[SPEAKER_03]: Links for everything are in the link tree in the show notes of this episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Any opinions stated are ours personally, and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening!