[SPEAKER_01]: Tommy does buying a new car half to always suck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it does.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it have to be like a six hour process?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it does.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep, I'm pretty sure it does.
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it have to be like, you know, you're going to your grade school gym class and you're all nervous and stressed about the fact that you got to get changed into different underwear and all the kids are making fun of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Does it have to be such a horrible, stressful?
[SPEAKER_01]: situation, something that you do only, you know, once or twice every few years and it just becomes untenable.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, genuinely I think that buying a new car.
[SPEAKER_02]: pretty much almost that fail is always a terrible experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright so in this video slash podcast we're going to be talking about the 30 or so cars that we have bought and sold in the last year and we're going to be telling the stories about what was a good process, what was a bad process, what was a sketchy process because there was that and some tips basically on how you can buy both new and used cars that make it suck less.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and this is going to be an interesting one for me too, Dad, because, you know, with use cars, we have, you know, found kind of a groove in a rhythm and it's easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But with new cars, including ones that, you know, I have purchased recently last year with the Fiat 500, it was such a unbelievably negative experience where I'm kind of like, I'm almost over the new car thing because the dealership experience is typically so bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so hold on to that thought because we'll get to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go back, let's go kind of chronologically in time with the cars we bought in Seoul.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yesterday, I just sold our 2014 Tesla Model S. And that process was buying it was great, selling it was horrendous until I actually found the right buyer.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start with buying it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I found that car on Craigslist.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people now don't use Craigslist.
[SPEAKER_01]: They use Facebook Marketplace.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Craigslist is actually I find a much more much much less scary, much less sketchy place to actually sell vehicles because with Facebook marketplaces, it's become such a jungle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And such a, because you have to use messenger and people go, there's just, you know, there's all those like videos of people making fun of Facebook marketplace and unfortunately a lot of it is based on truth.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me tell you what happened when I tried to sell the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, let me tell you when I first bought it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we bought this 2014 Tesla Model S because what do we want to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why are we buying one with 100,000 miles?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think the point of the series is we wanted to see what it would be like to live with an old electric car that has a reputation for being terrible to own, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: With high ownership costs and we want to see what the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you wanted to see what the battery was like after 100,000 miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it turned out actually really good, the car, well, it didn't turn out to be really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: The battery turned out to be perfect, but in the short time we owned it, I think it was probably seven months, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a lot of issues with things related to the battery, so the air conditioning and heat system went out, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We had just silly little, niggly problems like with the power seat failing and moving on its own.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there was like a bunch of little weird stupid stuff that broke on the car, but the high voltage just in the battery.
[SPEAKER_02]: The power train was fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we also had the replaced battery, and it's a, no, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had the replaced driving in it, so some later replaced underwater, and the great news about it was the battery still had 91% of its original capacity even after 100,000 miles in 10 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the buying part was actually nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I found it on Craigslist and it was the surprise that it made me feel good, believe it or not, because the car had belonged to one owner up in Fort Collins and what had happened was the gentleman unfortunately passed away from cancer.
[SPEAKER_01]: And his friend was selling the car for him to give the money to his widow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he knew nothing about the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was no history.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just knew that his friend had died.
[SPEAKER_01]: That he needed to sell this thing to give it to the money to his widow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I test drove it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually I like to talk to people.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one of my tricks.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm buying something, I won't actually meet somebody or even consider buying it if I can't talk to the person beforehand.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people just do all this by text, but I want to make sure that this person's on an axe murder.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to make sure that they're serious.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to, I have a series of questions that I ask when I'm buying a car on Craigslist, even or Facebook Marketplace, and most of those have to do with kind of trying to whittle down the fact that this car is, you know, something that I want to buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start with those questions that I ask.
[SPEAKER_01]: First and foremost, I want to know the history of the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in this case, the guy had no idea, so that was kind of a crap shoot.
[SPEAKER_01]: then I want to know if it's attending the accidents because that affects how easily you can sell it in other words.
[SPEAKER_01]: Either give me the car fax or if you've had an accident the next question I ask is is there any rust usually in Colorado this isn't an issue but rust is very expensive to fix.
[SPEAKER_01]: Body work is much more expensive than anything else so if there's any rust I walk away from it does everything work especially in an use car that's an important question and then perhaps the most important question I always like to ask is why are you selling it?
[SPEAKER_01]: And that kind of gives goes to the character of the car and to the seller.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the trick that I have learned, I think you have learned, is when you're buying a car from somebody you're buying the seller as much as you're buying the car, would you agree?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: If the guy or gal seems straightforward, seems nice, seems, you know, the kind of person that you'd like to hang out with, then it's the kind of person I want to buy a car from.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that person feels like I've got something and this is very valuable and you're
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this guy was very nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, he was very honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't think about the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: We actually met at a coffee shop.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, hey, can I take it for a test drive?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, yeah, I take it for a test drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Took it for a test drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: The car had had no accidents.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything worked.
[SPEAKER_01]: It had over 100,000 miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the surprise, and this was so nice, was when I bought the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, I bought it for 13,800.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you how much I sold it for in the typical TFL fashion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so when I bought the car, um, I took it to the supercharger and surprise surprise, it had free supercharging.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was one of those cars that had free supercharging for life, which increased value, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because somebody's going to want that car just because they'll never have to pay for fuel, but there's a caveat.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the caveat with the free supercharging for life on the 10-year-old Tesla?
[SPEAKER_02]: It just charges slower.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Tesla and their wisdom has turned down the charging ability to preserve doing air quotes here, the battery, but that means that you spend a lot more time with a supercharger.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, so let's keep going.
[SPEAKER_02]: So how does this have to relate with buying a new car?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now, we're going to get to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about use cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So get on board with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just having conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no like agenda here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we bought it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did the videos.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so then I go to sell it so I put it back on Craigslist and that's when the trouble began I put it on Facebook and I had this guy who contacted me and I was asking I think initially 14 or 13 9 for it because I wrote it for 138 and he came back and he's like Hey, I'll get you eight for it, which is insulting Well, but I think that you kind of just expect that you know when I sold cars and Facebook that's just how it goes Right you list a car for three you get offers for $800
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but he wasn't the only one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I probably had a half a dozen people and that that's just how it goes on Facebook I've got cash.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll come in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know 50% under the market.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I'm telling you just stop wasting your time stop wasting my time You know, if you're a serious seller, you kind of know what the car is worth You can check it out on KVB.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of places you can look on Facebook and see what other people are selling it for It's pretty much a set standard.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not hard to figure out and if you're trying to lowball people It's just insulting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's Facebook.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like, you can claim to want to change it, but just the lowball culture, it's almost kind of funny to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, you just say, no thanks, and then you move on, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just kind of how it goes.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I've told cars on Facebook has always been that same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, first of all, I hate using Messenger, so I started texting to this guy and I'm like, no, and I'm trying to explain to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: why I think it's worth what it is, so that's what you went wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what happened was like a 40-hour time for a session.
[SPEAKER_02]: Never try to explain.
[SPEAKER_02]: If they give the offer so low, just for move on, not worth trying to explain.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you're never going to convince him.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he kept coming up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's going to try to convince you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kept saying no, and he kept coming up and up and up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the kicker of this thing was, which made me understand that he didn't understand anything about electric cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, well, I'll give you like 12 for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, no, it's worth more than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got full self-charging for life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yada Yada, and then he came back and showed me a comparable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he said, well, why do you want 14?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I can buy the same car for 12.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the car that he sent me was a 60.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he had no clue between the difference between an electric car.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a size of battery, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So 60 kilowatt hour battery versus an 85 kilowatt hour battery.
[SPEAKER_01]: And electric cars, the value there is all about battery battery battery.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like real estate is location location, electric cars are battery battery battery.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a car that has a range of effective range with warm weather of 150 miles versus 250 miles, which is the car I was selling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, it's going to sell for a lot less, because basically what you're buying with a 60, a Tesla model, a 60 is a grocery eater.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the winter, it's going to be like 120 miles a week.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think like this is, look, I appreciate you trying to go back and forth to the sky, but if they come in so low and even if they start going up a little, but I just don't waste my time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just move on to the next person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, finally after like, you know, lowering the price, and I learned something else, which is kind of, I think might be interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we were buying our discovery five.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a dealership in Denver, and they don't have, I didn't know this, on newscar prices.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if they have a used vehicle, this was a Range Rover, a Land Rover dealership, and they have a price for the used vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's say it's $50,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: ours wasn't $50, ours was $20, but let's say it's $50.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you call them up, and you'll say, I'll give you $48, and I'll be like, no, it's $50, and you'll be like, I'll give you $40, I know it's $50, but what they do, and I'm seeing this, both,
[SPEAKER_01]: in terms of use card dealers and Tesla does this as well and they basically keep lowering the price and Tesla does it day by day on a lot of their use vehicles so what they'll do is they'll have vehicles that they have in stock not new vehicles use vehicles that are in stock that are in at the Tesla store and every day they'll lower it by like 400 bucks and this is I think a common thing that's happening in industry now and this was what was happening with this land over discovery started like a 22,000 or 24 my price for it was like 21 and I just
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I avoided it anybody else was nobody else wanted I waited for it to go down to 21 and then when it went down Because I noticed that it was coming down I think with them it was every week with Tesla's every day they bring it down like 400 bucks on their use vehicles especially like the expensive ones I'm sure that number changes based on what you're buying I'm sure it's like if you're buying a you know a three-old model 3 they're probably gonna go down 200 bucks I don't know but anyway I waited to wait it and when I got to 21 I said I'll buy it and I bought it for 21
[SPEAKER_01]: That was kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't you think it's kind of an insider tip there that you could you could play the game?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, of course, somebody else can come and buy before you, but if you know that like every week or every day, they're going to lower it a certain amount, you can just sit there and wait for it to come to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, do you know this?
[SPEAKER_02]: I did know this.
[SPEAKER_01]: See, did not know this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did know this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, my role as them never buy a car from a dealership.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can avoid it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I look for everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted a specific car with the disco I wanted that copper color right which was the hero color which is the color that the car was introduced in and there aren't a lot of around and I wanted the diesel which is also hard to get so sometimes if you want something very specific you got to go like I'll when I go on Craigslist I'll first thing I'll do is get rid of all the dealers yeah but if you want something specific sometimes you have to go to them I mean I don't mean to sound like a grumpy old man which I do I know very much
[SPEAKER_02]: It's to the point now where we've been doing this long enough and we've bought and sold enough cars, where I'm so tired and frustrated of the dealer experience that I will only work with dealers that I know have been good with.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for example, Johnson's auto plaza, right, that we've bought a bunch of runs and Chevy's a four.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know you're the same way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Get a good dealer, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You really like working with Johnson's, with Brighton Ford, with our friends at Volkswagen, out in Pennsylvania, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Redding, yeah, Volkswagen and Redding.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's to the point where I feel like every time I go into a dealership, I'm just like, I'm bait trying to get screwed over, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I'll give you an example.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like when I least my free fiat, I knew they were going to screw me over because it was free, but it was such a painful experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I just couldn't take eight hours of sitting there while they're messing around with stuff, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: and then three trips back to try to sort out the paperwork and stuff like it's it's just it's so draining to my soul knowing how easy it could be to purchase or lease a car and the way that they don't make it that way that I just I can't I can't handle it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm gonna say something and it's something that I've become used to and when I don't do it this way it makes me really upset and it goes exactly what you said.
[SPEAKER_01]: with Brighton or with Johnson's or with, you know, writing people that you know, good dealerships.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can literally walk into the dealership and I can buy a car in two minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I say two minutes, I'm not exaggerating.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, two minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to go through any of the bullshit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've picked out the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've agreed upon the price.
[SPEAKER_01]: I go right into the finance manager's office.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have the paperwork waiting for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I sign it and there's probably like 20 or 30 signatures.
[SPEAKER_01]: That takes the longest.
[SPEAKER_01]: I sign the check and hand it over to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They gave me the keys and I'm out of there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Two minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have to be the six hour process.
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is if you don't know the new car dealership, it can be a six hour process because they make it that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it doesn't have to be that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now there's a couple of caveats here.
[SPEAKER_01]: First we're paying cash.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're not doing a lease.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not financing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I did lease with the fee.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was the part of the reason to do so.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're not running a credit check on you, which helps when we lease that lease for $9 a month.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was also a painful process.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I walked out of the dealership and I gave up and I came back that afternoon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Luckily, they were five minutes from our office because it was taking so long just to do this lease.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I hate the thing where you walk in and they're like, well, the finance manager for somebody else, so it's going to take you another hour while they're doing the paperwork for somebody else.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the dealers I work with know that I won't or we won't tolerate that and they know that we bring in big audience And the problem there is the reason they're doing that is because they know that we're providing a lot of publicity and most people don't have that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think the reason that I'm not that involved with this podcast I'm sorry for look like I'm you seem like you're less even like your border because yes, I'm just I'm so Dejected by the whole carbine process, but that's what we're trying to help but I just don't
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that there is a way to help people.
[SPEAKER_02]: For example, like the number of times we go into a dealership trying to buy a vehicle and then things go badly and we all, we have to flash the fact that we have a million subscribers is insane.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like normal people can't do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm so dejected by the process, like I just want nothing to do with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really am so bummed out about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so I'll give you an example.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, I've bought a lot of cars for the channel and a lot of different states in a lot of different ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll give you some tips right now that you can use to figure out which dealerships are good and which dealerships aren't good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are, these are harder and lessens that I've learned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I've broken my own rules.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll tell you a story about that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's talk about like, lessons that you learned first of all, when you go to the dealer's website.
[SPEAKER_01]: and you look at the website, they all have obviously an inventory of vehicles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if it's Toyota, because Toyota works with regional offices, chances are that what's on the inventory of vehicles on the dealership isn't what they have at the dealership, which is also very frustrating, because they're getting their vehicles not from corporate, they're getting them from
[SPEAKER_01]: The kind of middleman and the regional middleman controls what's on the website.
[SPEAKER_01]: So with the Toyota world It's very difficult to figure out actually what's in stock and what's coming and what's been sold very hard And so with Toyota you got to make a phone call and you got to call the dealership being gonna find out of that vehicles actually there But all the other
[SPEAKER_01]: manufacturers usually they do a pretty good job of kind of putting their current inventory.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have found that at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me finish.
[SPEAKER_01]: Usually of what they have a current inventory.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they're a good dealer, they'll show you what's on the dealership ground on the lot, and they'll show you what's coming.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't have that differential,
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they put vehicles that are coming as if they have them walk away, that's my first that's my first I'm going to be honest that that's pretty much every dealer I've seen every dealer every dealer will have what's coming Well like a like a Johnson's you can tell what they have because they have a place where they take pictures And you can see that they've actually taken pictures of that actual vehicle and it's in their little like show room Right, but I know they have and I know like a lot of dealers use the same system But why even show the intransit cars
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm saying, okay, so that's that's number one.
[SPEAKER_01]: If if they market in transit cars being there, don't don't even go the second clue, if I ever see on the inventory call for pricing, walk away.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can't tell me the price on your publicly facing website, I'm not interested in buying it because that immediately tells me that this deal is going to play dealer games.
[SPEAKER_01]: Next one, if you click on the vehicle and
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you have to call, but if they don't show them in Roni, because often times they won't show them in Roni, they'll just give you a price, but the good dealers will show them in Roni, and they will also, if this use car give you a link to either a car fax or the other one, which is what's the other one, there's two of these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: the one that I walk away from is where they have the link to the it's the other one.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the car fax it's the auto check I think it's called and you click on the auto check and it takes you to a page where you have to buy the auto check.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I also walk away immediately because if this dealership can't do, and this is oftentimes the dealership, if they can't spend the 14 bucks that they're charged to actually provide you with a history of the report and they make you do it while you're buying that car, forget it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That means that those guys are such tight ass wads that they won't even provide you with the history of the report that they're making you do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not interested in actually working with these people.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, if there's a link to a car fax grade, if there's a link to an auto e-check, which is what usually the one that it is, and then you got to pay for it, forget it guys, come on.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're selling a car and you can't provide the history of the thing, don't even look at me because I'm not interested in working with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are all red flags that you can easily find out.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that the problem is... Well, let me finish.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hang on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, every dealer, and apart from the ones we listed I've worked with, will have at least one of these red flags.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never seen, I've never seen a dealer that has none of these red flags.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not going buying the cars to the company.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm the one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I'm the one because I hate buying cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're not exactly objective.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're already walking into this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am, because Dad, I've seen and I've heard this whole topic just frustrated me so much because I know that there are hacks to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But my heart goes out to the viewers that reached out, that are just getting so frustrated.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's help them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know if there is a lot of help to me, Dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just giving you three great tips.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, but I'm going to give you more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's another one.
[SPEAKER_01]: By a use car.
[SPEAKER_01]: From other parts.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's also problems with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my solution.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the whole all kinds of problems with that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: here's another one.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I would suggest you do is expand your search outside of your geographic area.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, so one out of four trucks are sold in Texas.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have found that if you want to buy a truck because there's a lot more trucks for sale in Texas, competition sends to be greater, so be ready to get on an airplane and fly to buy a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: out of state.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you've got the pleasure of the fun of actually roachipping a back home.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do this a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: The last time, of course, we did it blew up in our faces when we bought that ZR1C4 Corvette.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can talk about that in a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in general, be prepared to travel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't just think, well, I want to go to my local Honda dealer, my local GM dealer, you know, be prepared to go to someplace out of state and make it into a fun weekend or a fun
[SPEAKER_01]: weekday for you and your buddies or your family one, make a fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for me, the experience oftentimes is more important than the vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I would say 75% of the times that we have registered a vehicle or about a vehicle out of state, they mess up our taxes.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: This has happened probably three of the four times.
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially in the last two years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially in California.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll note, you're not the one dealing with when they mess up the taxes.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that takes a lot of work on his part.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of work going back and forth into the DMV.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's like I said, especially in California.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when it's ever it's happened, it's been in California.
[SPEAKER_02]: It though it's happened with the ram, too, and I'd hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a mess up, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember the RAM.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember it happening pretty much every time in California, because California has this law where you have to pay the taxes in the state of California, and then you have to go recover and from your local, and that's hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so if you screw it out, basically you're paying taxes at the California rate, and then you got to get the money back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And once you give them, there's a foreign-year rule of acquisition, which is a start, track thing, and the rule is, once you get their money never give it back, and that's how I kind of feel about California tax.
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, be careful of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're buying a used car out of state and in Colorado, these rules vary, but do you have to do a wind inspection?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, in an emissions test, that's a big problem too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then the other thing that, you know, I look for.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm interested in a car, especially a new car and it's at a new car dealership, I like to talk once again to the salesman.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he feels or comes across as salesman, if I ask a question about the vehicle and they immediately don't know the answer or if they don't know if the vehicle is even in stock, I just block away from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if you don't know what you have in stock, if you don't have a system in place at the dealership that you can't easily look up on a computer to know what's in stock, I mean oftentimes I get something like I don't know if the car's still here another one is bait and switch that's very common.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you ever actually find a vehicle on this app to us when I was looking for a stubby the truck where the vehicle was on the website and I would call them up and then I would get the salesman the first thing he would say is oh, I just sold that yesterday or we just sold that five hours ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a bunch of BS what they're doing is bait and switch.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I
[SPEAKER_01]: right they're putting vehicles that they have no intention of selling because they know their popular and so they'll be like oh we don't have that one but this one for $10,000 more is sitting right next to me so anytime you have any of those kind of use car sales been tripped just walk away from it and this is work Tommy this is not easy this is work but if you want the experience to be easy you have to put in the work
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and then I know that's stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why I only buy cars from the certain dealers that we deal with because I don't have to work Yeah, yeah, yeah, but don't you think that's like a fundamental problem with the system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but what how am I gonna?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm I wish there were a different system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want a different system.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go buy a Tesla and you're under worry too in the morning.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and that's a really good system Like genuinely and that's I do have one positive thing to say today
[SPEAKER_02]: Pay attention, everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: The only interesting thing to get to say today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, buying the Tesla words direct from the manufacturer and you can do it online.
[SPEAKER_02]: That should be the way every car transaction happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: I genuinely mean it.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, but I had a pretty ugly, I was trying to buy a plaid recently, which I didn't buy because I got on a, you know, plaid.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love a bargain.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a sucker for a bargain and plaid's were like 153 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people least them, and now you can buy a testimonialist plaid this three years old for $50,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's depreciated basically two thirds of the value.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I found a blue one that I liked.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had like 36,000 miles, it was three years old, and it was, and I'm using air quotes here, at the Tesla store, and I'm not saying dealership because it's not dealership, at the Tesla store in the springs.
[SPEAKER_01]: the way that you get it is you go online and then you say I'm interested in this and if you want to buy it then you have to put down a $500 deposit and I wanted to know if that deposit was refundable or not because once you put that deposit down they will bring the car up from the springs for free to in this case Denver it's not far you can also do the same thing like buy one in Chicago and bring it to Chicago but then they add like a $2,000 destination fee on top of it so you can buy one from the
[SPEAKER_01]: store in Chicago that they have sitting there.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I thought I'll bring it to Colorado, but then it takes a week and you get to pay for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the one, because Springs and Denver are so close, they'll just bring it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I want to know if one that Tesla shows up here in Denver, and go look at it and the thing smells like somebody's been smoking it for the last three years, I don't want it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do they refund the money?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel that little form, let me know before I, and the guy calls me back on the phone, do they have people who actually call you?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, well, what happens if, you know, this car is something that I don't want.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he said, well, you lose all of that 500 dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, well, I'm not going to buy a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: 50,000 dollar car without ever even seeing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I can do that for a new car.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fine, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: If I'm buying a brand new, I mean, there's warranty.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that system's broken, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, okay, I'm not interested in this because like I say, if this thing comes up and it's a bummer of a car that I'm stuck losing $500, it's not worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then, it's gonna be called me back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, like, his boss is,
[SPEAKER_01]: Very nice lady calls me back and she said, Hey, I see you're interested in this blue Tesla.
[SPEAKER_01]: What can I help you with?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, you know, I don't want to pay $500 and not see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she said, Well, what you can do and I've had this happen before is you can go down to the springs and you can go to the auction and you could probably get in there and see it and I'm like auction.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what do you mean auction?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think what they were doing is, I think Tesla originally sold the car, I think that what it happened was that it came back on a lease and that they were putting, they put it in the auction and they were using the auction to hold it until it was actually auctioned until they sold it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the only way I could go and actually see it was to go to the auction and hopefully the auction would let me in to go look at the car, and that's also kind of bullshit, Tommy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, that's also BS.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, if I want to buy a used car, I don't think it's asking a lot to actually be a little smelled interior before I plop down $50,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think I mean more buying a new Tesla.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think the system works.
[SPEAKER_02]: The system that should be in place, and this was the reason they were so popular, and I also think it's generational, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: My generation, I think it's
[SPEAKER_02]: Your generation's ability to deal and manage with conflict and deal with this process is so much higher than anybody I know
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think that people myself included, they just don't want to deal with this face-to-face like, yes, that you said.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just in actor's season lying, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just something that sounds terrible.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, the best solution which should have worked, but didn't, because I think the company is pretty mismanaged, is the carve-on of room.
[SPEAKER_02]: solution, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where you go, you see the virtual car, you see the price, the car comes delivered with the title.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't like it, you return it, you get your money back, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That should be the system for everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't work in my opinion because they didn't deliver titles in time.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a whole problem with registrations.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then the cars they were delivering were just of poor quality and too expensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that kind of fell apart.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that should be the way that buying a used car through a quote dealer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where would have with us?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, room, I don't think you're
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know either.
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably still is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Took her $60,000 and then they wouldn't refund it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: They lost it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was going to buy an IA from Brune.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is like five years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I sent them a certified check.
[SPEAKER_01]: They wanted a wire transfer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Catch your check.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's like my account doesn't like wire transfers because once the money's gone, it's gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't never get it back.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can actually you can actually stop payment on a certified check, which I did Because what why didn't we want the car?
[SPEAKER_01]: What happened?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do I remember?
[SPEAKER_01]: I forget why we walked away from the car But then they lost a check and they couldn't took them like two weeks to find the check before they could send it back to me
[SPEAKER_02]: So, over a Patreon, if you want to support the chat of my grumpyness, patreon.com slash tflcar, Chris, as a good comment on today's podcast, he says, I've not had bad dealership experiences.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm in my 50s with many new car purchases, be willing to walk away and go and educate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to negotiate and put the dealer on their toes.
[SPEAKER_02]: See, that's something I hate doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's a lot of people who actually, absolutely, there's a lot of people who love them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you like doing that, Cole?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but I know Alex really loves you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Alex also who he's been our team used to it was like he was like going into the Colosseum I know it's fighting the day like he was a lie and some people I get that some people love that You know back and forth, you know trying to play one dealer off the other, but do that is that's a lot of work And that's a lot of conflict
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, part of the problem, so Robert sounds like he agrees more with me, worse things in the world buying pants and trying the mon, car dealerships and buying the car and their upcharge BS.
[SPEAKER_02]: My local Honda dealer wanted 1449 for a package of nitro in the tires and all weather floor mats.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, if anybody wants to charge you extra for nitrogen in your tires walk away, that is just such a money grab It does absolutely nothing and gotten even knows if it's in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, how do you figure out it?
[SPEAKER_01]: What percentage because it's never 100% And it's like a certain percentage of the atmosphere of gas
[SPEAKER_01]: That's way too much information, but never never buy a car from them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing that I would never do is when you go in there and they're like, oh, we put a tracker in the car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, what, a $25 attack, except ours is a professional tracker and it's $600, I'm like, I don't want a tracker.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, you got to buy it with a tracker, or I don't want paint protection.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, you got to buy the paint protection.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anytime that it forced you to buy something, walk away.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can see all that right on their website, because it's usually listed that it's there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they surprise you with it, then the walk away, don't do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean look here's here's the fundamental problem right so these are great tips, but let's look at like the use car world All right, let's use use you said you're buying the buy the seller when you're buying a use car How do you buy the seller if that's a dealership?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't, first of all, like the biggest pit of vipers, I could ever think of buying a car for would be a used car dealer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not a new car dealer that sells used cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least they have some like accountability to the manufacturer.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm talking about those like used car dealers on Colfax and Denver.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those guys terrifying me.
[SPEAKER_01]: We bought one car from a used car dealer that actually turned out to be good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was that old Land Cruiser member, he was cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was not good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it wasn't that bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we paid market value forward and he actually provided us with a title and he provided us in Colorado.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have as your seller, whether private or commercial, you have to provide on a use car, the, the, the small certificate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most private buyers have no cool about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But do you remember how long we were in the dealership for?
[SPEAKER_01]: like four or five hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think we were there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like two hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there was somebody else buying a car and then you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, you're sitting there cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the problem with buying a used car from a dealership is you're buying that story, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're buying that person essentially.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're buying their maintenance records.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're buying how much the care for that car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that'll make a break car more than anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we had that experience with my mini GP that we bought on a Texas.
[SPEAKER_02]: The car was pretty terrible, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it was COVID, we couldn't go hands on and we didn't know the story of the car and it showed up with all these problems.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would avoid at all cost buying a use car from a dealership and I understand like people have to because of financing reasons, but my tip there is like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Just do your best to save as best you can and then get a cheaper car privately.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The average new car price is now sneaked above $50,000, which is mind-blownly expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so one of the ways that people are circumventing that are our 40 new cars because it's face to tummy, people want the reliability, the warranty of a new car.
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's a couple tips that actually I think are very useful.
[SPEAKER_01]: First of all, never do like a 72 month lease.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't done that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the math on the loan.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a loan, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't done the math on this, but if you're buying a car that's $50,000 and you're doing a 72 month loan on it, you're paying probably $90,000 for that car or what it's also in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But depends on your interest rate, but depends on the interest rate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be just crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in that case, just lease a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I know the problem with leasing a car is that you don't have the ownership, you don't own it, and you feel like you're just renting a car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's more problems than that, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot more problems than that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll give you an example, like, I got the deal of the century.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not complaining about my deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love how cheap my fiat 500 was, because it was free.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was zero down zero dollars a month.
[SPEAKER_02]: The deal was happening, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is incredible.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's certain costs you can't account for.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like like you have to have the highest best quality insurance on you can right so like my land rover It's a $5,000 car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you can't just do like you can't do liability, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't even do basic like Fiat made me say like you're gonna do basic kind of new car That doesn't make sense because if you're buying a $50,000 car you're still gonna want to get in
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an unexpected expense that people would consider like, oh, I won't least paying a hundred bucks a month for the car, not true.
[SPEAKER_02]: You may be paying a hundred bucks for the car, but you're probably going to spend two, 50 a month if you're my age, three and a month on insurance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that probably has to do more with like your age and driving record than it does to do potentially for sure, but I have a
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect driving.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying apples to apples if you buy fifty thousand a car Let's see you buy Honda CRV Yeah, forty thousand dollars to least that and to buy it the insurance will be identical And you're gonna want to get the identical shirt you write it's gonna you're not gonna just have liability on that car It's too valuable and the least in company.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will let you just have live, but if I was buying a UCRV
[SPEAKER_01]: I would get cheaper insurance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but the problem and here's a solution is that people want the peace of mind of having a new car.
[SPEAKER_01]: So because a lot of people don't want to buy use cars because they feel like they're buying somebody else's problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was what your grandfather used to say.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that was 1978.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but that mentality is still out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's incorrect.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's largely incorrect.
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially like I'm not saying go buy a 1990 Cadillac Alante.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm saying instead of buying a 2025 accord like we did for $15 bucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a fine option instead of buying a 2025 accord or leasing a 2025 accord.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go buy 2015 accord.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's only 10 years old, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably going to have under a 100,000 miles with 10 years old, and it's a Honda.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to have pretty good longevity.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're going to save a lot of money over the purchase price, and you have a lot of money left over if you do have problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I would say if you want to get a use car, if there's two kind of caveat to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once upon a time, it's still out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: side guys people still think this they think that they can save some money by buying a car that's come off lease let's say three years old so let's say you're looking for a brand new pick the car truck of your choice instead of buying a brand new you're gonna go and get the three year old one because you're basically letting somebody else take the hit on depreciation now that may have been true
[SPEAKER_01]: like 10 years ago, but after COVID and after the part shortage, oftentimes, the three-year-old car either cost as much or just a little bit less than the new car.
[SPEAKER_01]: At that point, you're better off just to get the new car because you're going to get whatever incentive the manufacturer has, and that's also a good thing we need to talk about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hold on there, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: What car?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Jeep Wrangler's I agree, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Many.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you go on any.
[SPEAKER_02]: Defender?
[SPEAKER_02]: it's going to be way cheaper three years later.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some cars like obviously so even like a Broncos sport so way cheaper.
[SPEAKER_01]: I encourage you guys know where about this, but I think they average time on a market time on the lot for any new cars like 75 days.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm I think I'm right with that and so
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the longer a car is on the lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, here's the tricky part about buying a new car.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not buying the car from the manufacturer, you're buying the dealer.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you think about that, that means that the dealer is really the customer for the manufacturer.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why cars are such boring cars because dealers won't go out on the limb and pick cool colors.
[SPEAKER_01]: They only order cars or a silver black white gray.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's hard to get really cool colors and so if the dealer is a customer of the manufacturer You're buying the car from a small business man who is sitting or medium-sized business I guess depending on how big the dealership network is or large He's sitting on a lot of inventory, which most likely than not or she is they've actually taken the loan on So they need to sell those cars they move through them through the system so that they're not paying a lot of interest
[SPEAKER_01]: And if the car sits on the lot for a long time, that means you're, you know, spending a lot of money to keep a sitting there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so those cars obviously that aren't wanted, that people are afraid of, like I just read that the, the new mini isn't selling very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those cars, of course, you could probably get a deal on and that's one way to get a deal on a car by one of the cars that is, you know, less sought after.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the problem is people don't want cars that are less sought after.
[SPEAKER_01]: everybody kind of wants the same car which is going to be like a RAF or CRV right these are the most popular cars in the country and those cars turn they don't sit on the dealership or for instance like we bought a four-runner you know we bought a good luck getting the four-runner and when it first came out you're going to perhaps pay even an added dealer markup on top of the price of it because it's new and it's hot so it depends like how hot a new of a car do you want.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I would argue that, so let's go back to the leasing discussion, leasing in general, I know you said you're a fan of it, unless it's a crazy deal, I would never lease a new car.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's fair, I'm out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because let's just do a quick bit of math, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's say you're leasing a new Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of the ones I saw recently are 3,000 or 4,000 dollars down.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's say there are 300 bucks a month.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is probably going to be more than 300?
[SPEAKER_01]: 300?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is probably more than 300?
[SPEAKER_01]: 300?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but let's do three hundred and two times twenty four that's seventy two hundred plus three thousand down you're at ten two for that two years plus let's say things going to be two fifty a month to ensure times twenty four you're going to get that cost is set so it's fixed you're not going to change that whether you buy release but my point is that so you you've just invested about sixteen thousand dollars in that car
[SPEAKER_02]: over the two years over two years and what do you have to show for it at the end of two years you likely have another fee which i'm learning about leasing where you have to pay to return the car and also buy new tires for it yeah you have to return it right where is if you had that $12,000 and you had just bought a 2004 Wrangler right that car will still be worth $10,000 but if you find the answer especially on a long term oh it's loan way worse you're gonna pay a lot more
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and you're still going to have a lot of those fixed costs, and you won't have the piece of mind of having a warranty on it, which you will have for every three years.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a typical three year, 36,000 mile, at least you will always have a warranty on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you never have to worry about actually the car not having, you know, having, having put any additional money into it because it breaks to have to fix it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you'll also have the fun of having a different car every three years, which for a lot of people is cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's cool, but it's expensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's always expensive cars are expensive yeah, but you can make it like this is the I just have this conversation I think our perspective is skewed as our people like like so when Morgan needed a car my wife, right in college She she could have gone out at least a car.
[SPEAKER_02]: She had about a she had a budget She wanted to spend under $10,000 right what she didn't instead is she's put 4,000 down and then got a 5,000 dollar loan
[SPEAKER_02]: and then bought a $9,000 UCRV right it was a pretty old CRV it's like 2007 this was probably four years ago five years ago and then she drove that car for 50 or 80,000 miles and she paid off that loan quickly she had a $4,000 loan she paid it off and then she had a car that she was paying
[SPEAKER_02]: $95 a month to ensure, and she had no reliability issues with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we're talking 100,000 miles on a CRV.
[SPEAKER_02]: She drove it 50,000 miles, nothing broke.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's two points here.
[SPEAKER_01]: First, we use Granger as this advent of extended warranties has really been helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: So one of our sponsors, full disclosure, is Granger, and they provide extended warranties.
[SPEAKER_01]: So once the manufacturer warranties up after three or five years of depending on the vehicle,
[SPEAKER_01]: Then they step in and we actually use it on our Corvette.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It worked great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we had one of those little butterfly valves, the changes the exhaust don't go out, there was a $1500 repair, it was under warranty, wonderful.
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is you can't get an extended warranty for that Cadillac that's sitting in our garage, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's at 20 years.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's probably too old.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I don't know how far back they go, but they don't go back more than maybe 10 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if they even go back 10 years.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the argument?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like 50,000 miles.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the argument about buying a new car, I think you're right, that you've definitely, I'm not saying you're wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: People do want that piece of mind of having that warranty, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Granger is an option for an extended warranty.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about something that you've always talked about, which is a safety aspect, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're better off buying a new car because it's going to be much safer vehicle than an older car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, there's more to it than that.
[SPEAKER_02]: like a night in the ECU because I see you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I see you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, because your cart doesn't have passenger-side airbags is gonna be $20,000, which is cheaper than a cart.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, I think that's a very valid argument.
[SPEAKER_02]: This was 2008.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you were looking at a 1992 Honda Accord, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of a 2008 Honda Accord.
[SPEAKER_02]: The problem is a 15-year-old car from today is a 2010 car, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or even a 10-year-old, a 2010 or 2015 car is going to have driver passenger airbags, it's going to have side curtain airbags, it's going to have real crumple zones, it's going to have ABS, traction control, stability control, it will likely have a backup camera for its 15-year-newer, it'll likely have automatic emergency braking of 15-year-newer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, like these are things.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't have emergency break, and that came out in the last five years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Became serious.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we had enough of 15, 15 that had emergency breaking, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, and yes, we did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it was 2015.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember the first card that had it, it was really poor because I was going down past our house, and the car was making a left turn, and he slowed down enough that the thing actually slammed down the emergency break, thinking that I was going to hit him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't I was clear not gonna hit him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's up to the point there is to technology keeps getting better year after year Yeah, so you're getting you're getting safe for cars if you're going back 10 15 years But if you want the latest and greatest and safe, you're gonna have to go new.
[SPEAKER_02]: But my argument is like the safety progression Wow from the 70s the 80s in the 90s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's good
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a mint like the it was that hockey puck curve, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was immensely great.
[SPEAKER_02]: You had seat belts went from shoulder belts to three point.
[SPEAKER_02]: You had crumples on it, so you had airbags come in.
[SPEAKER_02]: You had pretensioners come at all this stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you go back to 2010, I'm not sure the cars have gotten dachimatically, they've gotten more knowing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like Lane Keep.
[SPEAKER_02]: That you could argue that safety at arguments annoying.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that every time I go to a launch of a new car, the manufacturer, until recently used to town how much stronger the steel is, and these are safety things, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: These are things that new cars have.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in other words, a cage that's around you is much stronger than the previous generation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think, yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can get, you know, let's say 70% of the safety and a 10-year-old car of a new car, but that 30% differential in the ER could easily be 10-20-30 thousand dollars if you
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that data that well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know like
[SPEAKER_02]: Recently like small over like crash testing has improved a lot right that's within the last 15 years that's really become a conversation And I've no doubt that cars were getting safer My argument is like I'm not sure that a 2010 or 2015 car is going to warrant that being that much safer to spend 20, 30, 40,000 dollars more Than to buy a For a lot of people just want that new car smell and you're forgetting that a lot of people not only want the peace of mind of having a new car from a safety point of view from a
[SPEAKER_01]: Reliable point of view, but also from the fact that they're the first ones that get to fart in it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You a lot of people don't want somebody else's use car and I have no problems with use cars I think they're great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're bargains, but a lot of people like the new new thing
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, which is fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, and if you want the new thing, you have to go through a dealership.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or get a Tesla.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or a review.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I just think I'm jaded to the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And partly it's because I had so many friends that tried to go out by new cars in the last few years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've always had such terrible experiences.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just very frustrated at the whole process, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not frustrated at one dealer in particular.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just frustrated that like it's still, there are good dealers and there are dealers that are ruining it for everybody else.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about the other side of that coin.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, every time we do a truck review and the truck is like whatever it is, which is $70,000, $80,000 now, the first common out there will be like, like this is crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want that thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want a basic truck for $35,000, and then I think to myself, well how are these manufacturers selling like 14 versions of their top end truck, which is what you have now?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: If everybody just wants an honest truck, you know, a work truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the fact is that, and you had this experience with your Wrangler, that while people say they just want the base work truck or in case the basic car, for some reason, when they get to dealership, it always ends up being the top end or often the middle spec.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell them what happened with your Jeep and how hard it was to sell that base Jeep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I actually sold it really quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, the dealer is the second one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: When we ordered it, they had the, um, but there was a mess up in the logistics and they sent two base model rankers instead of just mine when I ordered it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking in base for talking roll-up window.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is 2010.
[SPEAKER_01]: The locks are talking very base.
[SPEAKER_02]: 2021.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're conditioning.
[SPEAKER_02]: 2021 or 22.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was when I had the Red Wrangler release and the deal had a really hard time selling in the second one and I was talking to the other They're like, well, yeah, because people come in and they just want Rubikos And we're like, well, do you need that level of capability like you really need lockers?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't care.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want Rubikos So a lot of it you're right is people do They just want the flashy one, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: They just want the high country badge with a laryat badge or whatever
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, so people like to complain about the cost of new cars, but yet somehow the manufacturers wouldn't be building the upper-level trim if they weren't selling them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, don't you kind of figure that, but especially with 72 month loans, we're going to be sitting in this room in a year or two years from now when it all...
[SPEAKER_02]: comes crumbling down, I'm gonna be like, I remember this moment, it was podcast 3-11.
[SPEAKER_02]: When people were doing 72 month loans, it's a spend $85,000 for a allariate F-150.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I really genuinely just don't think it's sustainable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where this is going to end up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're living in a dangerous time right now for automakers.
[SPEAKER_01]: We talked on the outside, it seems like the automakers are just trudging along, but when you talk to them, it's just, it's, it's, look, the problem with,
[SPEAKER_01]: today is that there's so much change that's happening so rapidly and then top of that the government has made the situation worse by seemingly throwing on arbitrary tariffs based on the shape of the moon as far as I can tell and it takes about ten years to develop a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when all of a sudden you go from having this international supply chain of parts, because people, this is also a problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: People think that back in the good old days, I wanted a 50, whatever, three packer that was built Detroit.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no car that's American May today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, the highest percentage of American May car is a Tesla.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you really want to, if you really want American May car, get yourself a Tesla after that, it's the Honda Accord and the Camry.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is kind of ironic when you think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, because they're Japanese companies.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's because there's this incredibly long supply chain of parts that comes from all around the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so even if the car or truck is made in America, those parts and oftentimes, their big parts are transmissions, their motors, their engines, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are not made in America.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that stuff gets tariff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's really hard for car companies to plan 10 years out when you don't know how much they can sell the car year next week, let alone five weeks from now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've got this very capricious government right now that is just, you know, throwing tariffs left on right and it's creating all kinds of havoc on an industry that's already in trouble because of electrification and autonomy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, I think we're on a knife-side right now when it comes to a lot of car makers and whether those car makers can survive or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not just American ones, it's also Japanese one.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a whole other podcast, you know, we can talk about companies like Stellantis and Nissan survive.
[SPEAKER_01]: and the question is, I'm not sure, and the problem is it's a great conversation to have accept those car companies employ a boat ton of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if, you know, if, if cilantro goes out of business, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, people are gonna lose their job.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that means that tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of people are gonna lose their job because all the suppliers that supply the parts to them are also gonna go bankrupt.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a very precarious time that we're sitting at because, you know, when you talk to the manufacturers, they're not sure where the industry's heading.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the other thing I want to talk about, which I think is another interesting dilemma is I think that there's a big shift toward consumers when you look at the use-based versus a new space that if you're getting really fed up with the software defined vehicles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so over software defined vehicles.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the sweet spot for cars was like 2015.
[SPEAKER_01]: When there, we know that I ate that we have where there is a small screen called you
[SPEAKER_01]: right, and then there are buttons for everything else like the radio and HBAC, and now that is a perfect era.
[SPEAKER_01]: We cross the bridge that I wish we could cross over because I hate having everything in the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think most people have it, and we're also at a really bad time for autonomy, and what I mean by that, there are five levels of autonomy, and right now we're in that number two, that middle one, where you can use super crews, you can use full self-driving in quotes, you can use blue crews, but the fact is you got to sit there and nanny the car or truck,
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to yell at you when you take your eyes off the road and your hands off the wheel.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what humans are good at is either driving or not driving.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're really, we're really good drivers and we're really good at not paying attention texting watching videos.
[SPEAKER_01]: What we're really bad at is having the car drive but having us have to supervise it while it's driving itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And until we get to level three or level four autonomy, it's just going to suck.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but yeah, what I wanted to show though is if you go to if you had over to bring a trailer, this is the interesting thing of a noticing it's been going for a while now, but I think this is a good demonstration of just how insane the interest in like the slightly used cars look up 200 series land cruiser
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there you go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you scroll down a little bit further and you guys see some of the prices 8,000 mile land cruiser this just finished last week $87,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: 2020 that's a five-year-old land cruiser now.
[SPEAKER_02]: 84,000 miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: You should have bought that hair the judiciary.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: 87,000 dollars for that heritage.
[SPEAKER_02]: 82,000 for the heritage, 92.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now fundamentally, if you compare a 2020 Land Cruiser to the new Land Cruiser, the size is about the same.
[SPEAKER_02]: The offer capability at argues better in the new one, fuel efficiency is better in the new one, tech is better in the new one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Reliability that's definitely another conversation I think there's a lot of people that argue the five seven's better But you know the new one's still got that warrant here talking about that things out of warranty now But there's so much interest in kind of the old school mechanical feel Especially within the Toyota world that these land cruisers are in some cases going for more than when they were new Like that 8000 miles to go down call that white one that guy is a 2021 He probably bought that thing for 85 He drove it 8000 miles I had it for four years and then sold it for 871
[SPEAKER_01]: right with with the 2020s so you're right it doesn't happen but there's also another factor that that play and it started with the exotic cars hyper super cars and now it's come down to like these cars where there are people who are once upon a time obviously if you wanted to make money in the car world you'd become a dealer or you'd become a used car dealer but now everybody is kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: a collector or worse yet, a flipper of cars, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are people that in the past had a job and they were by use car and then the car, a new car and the car become used and somebody else would buy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just in the actual progression.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now there's a whole, especially with bringing trailer where there's all these people who are making the living basically trying to figure out what the cost of a,
[SPEAKER_01]: new car is what car is going to become hot and who will want it and they're buying it not because they want to buy for transportation they're buying it as an investment as a business investment like I said that started with obviously the super cars and now it's come down to like even land cruisers and I think I think when you have all these middlemen
[SPEAKER_01]: you're just going to see higher prices and which is what's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of middle men now trying to make money on cars and if you love cars like me and you it just becomes a really sad moment in time because people are no longer buying cars because they want to drive because this is their dream car because it's their passion.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're buying them because this is just a business form and it's just another commodity that they can either sit on and use it as a hedge against inflation or
[SPEAKER_01]: Flip it eventually and make money on it, and that's been happening now, especially since we've been doing this for the last 10 years, and the most obvious ones that come to mind immediately are cars like the Ford GT, remember the last Ford GT, where now these main manufacturers are building these kind of low volume cars, you're seeing it, I think with the GT with the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new Mustang GT, and the new
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you were seeing it with all the GT3 products from Porsche, where they're no longer cars, they're now commodities that you can make money on and then it's just really skewing the market and it's driving all kinds of new car prices and use cars prices up through the wall.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think there's some of that, but I also, I think like with Lancaster's, there's just an interest in hype around the older ones, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I didn't love our 200, I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I, if you're spending 87,000 dollars for a 200 series, there's faster ways to put yourself to sleep, I mean, I mean, sleeping pills are a lot cheaper than it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very good car, but oh, my gosh, it was a boring.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very, very dull to actually live with and drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean the more you this is the problem with Lexus if your car enthusiast the more perfect something is a more boring it becomes Yeah, sometimes the least perfect ones or the more that's that is that's a pretty big selling point Yeah, it will get you home, but most cars will get you home now.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's Tommy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean car car is there such a thing as that's a good question Ask is there such a thing as a bad car in 2025?
[SPEAKER_02]: Not really
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there's cars that are boring, there's cars that probably have known issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can talk about transmission, you can talk about, you know, salinity activation, especially in trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's no car that I would say don't buy it because, like, in the 70s, there were definitely cars that were lemons right from the factory.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think those exist.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, like, you can't buy a should vet anymore, so I don't think I don't think things are that bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, no, I mean, for the most part,
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, especially the mainstream stuff, then we got a lot of emails like Shibai CRV or a RAF4 rogue, and it really doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, buy it with everyone you can afford, which everyone is at the better dealership, and whichever one is the best color, because like for the most part, they benchmark each other so closely, that's the difference between a RAF4 hybrid and a CRV hybrid.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so minuscule in the real world.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's spend the last 15 minutes giving them some real consumer advice because we've just been winging and mourning about a lot of stuff, but let's give you some real consumer advice.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want a good use car, I would say go electric and go electric.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fast because electric cars are depreciating and yet in terms of reliability and in terms of maintenance They are the most reliable the most maintenance free cars you can get now to me I don't care what powers the car whether it's electric or an internal combustion engine if you're one of those guys or gals out there who's like you can take the Heming out of my cold at hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm sorry
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you want a bargain, if you want a great car, get yourself an electric car right now, because this is a time to buy used electric, and don't look at the reports from 10 years ago, or from five years ago, and from two years ago, things are changing very rapidly.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can easily cross country and electric car now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've done it a whole bunch and it's getting easier.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's tens of thousands of chargers coming online every year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I still wouldn't want the cross country electric car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's fine, but I'm saying it's very doable, and let's give them some examples of incredibly great electric cars that are a dirt cheap.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the two most obvious ones are the lucid.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember we had the lucid grand touring the GT air.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I fell in love with that car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a hundred and thirty thousand other car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I found one for sale in Denver that was Less than six months old with four thousand miles for sixty three thousand dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: It had lost over half of its value in less than half a year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another one are the Mercedes EQ cars EQ CQ
[SPEAKER_01]: I think those things are really great cars, they're dirt cheap, they'll use cars, they're super reliable.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Lucid is like the one, use electric car would never recommend.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have issues with, I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean the EQ products are very well baked, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: EQS, EQE, EQS SUV, yeah, you can get a $100,000 car for like 35 and they're going to be so well made.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I'd buy a Lucid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I just don't trust that software package.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the use cry wouldn't buy and we have water is a leaf because the batteries were in climate control.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I actually think second gen leads are a little better.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wouldn't get an early leaf, especially one from a hot hot climate area that's been charged fast a lot, but like the second gen leaves are seen a little bit better.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I would get any, uh, pretty much any of the BMW products I force.
[SPEAKER_01]: used I for is incredible cars you know it's a three you know to use bolt it's coming yeah bolts are really really really really you can pick up a bolt for $10,000 all the long the downside of course with electric cars is you're buying old technology it's like buying an old phone but a lot of people have figured out that old phones work just as well as new phones
[SPEAKER_01]: And the truth is, if you're going back, let's say five, 10 years with electric, I wouldn't go back any further than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's a Tesla, you're okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then just make sure that, you know, use cars, like I said, all about batteries and the leaf battery had huge issues because they didn't try to control them, but they're not like phones.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have...
[SPEAKER_01]: a used electric car and it's 5-10 years old just like we proved the Tesla you still have like 90% of the battery and it's taken a long time for that to like seep through into the flight guys because people keep thinking that electric car after three years is so away it's not um i mean you want a really good car you got by a 2008 RA4 V6
[SPEAKER_00]: 2007.
[SPEAKER_02]: 2007.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: 2007, RF-4 V6.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a producer, Cole's car.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Mary's car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: 2000s do 2010's Honda Toyota.
[SPEAKER_02]: This can be a really good car.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're going to pay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can buy a three year old leaf for what's going to cost you to buy that RF-4 that Cole's talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but his can go anywhere in the country.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can go anywhere in the country.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are not going anywhere in the country in a leaf, Dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm bold.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can buy a useful bolt for the same amount that he paid for his, you know, much older and you can go anywhere in the country in the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're very uncomfortably.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you'll be comfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll just have to still charge it to the kill.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that'll be terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can sit there a while to charge it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, here's the thing with EVs.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have like four moving parts.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing to fix.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I would never, I wouldn't own Rosemary only car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I still to this day, I'm just an old man.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I would.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you are such a grumpy old man.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I love bolt.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would love to have a bolt as a second car, just like our Fiat.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, if you want it, if you realistically want to take a road trip, it's so nice having a gas car.
[SPEAKER_02]: It really, really is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially if you live in an apartment complex in EVs, just not really an option.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think an EV is excellent second car, and I would recommend it to anybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: I listen to this car, this show called the Car Pro in the weekends, this old dude who gives advice to old people, and this is exactly the advice that you're giving.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a great second car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a great first car.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to get a really great first car, get like a three year old addict five, you're going to love life, you're never going to have to pay for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you don't have charging.
[SPEAKER_01]: then you want to really rely on you every house has electricity does your house have electricity could you charge me garage well he's in a part I said I was saying I said apartment I said house what if you're renting okay if you're in a house that you got to go out and spend like between 500 and 1000 bucks additionally to get a level two charge so that's now if you're in apartment complex yes it's a little bit more difficult you're probably going to have to go to the EA just about being in the bot
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also painted a butt to have to take your car in for service which you won't have to do, but it's also painted a butt to have to pay for new breaks and it's also painted a butt, you know, to have to pay for it, not that much of a pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: For, you know, I mean, think of the myriad of things that goes wrong in a truck for a new starter for a new clutch for a new transmission, none of that's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cool, if you had to do a new starter, new engine or transmission in your car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think alternator is the only alternator one thing, but it's that you It's coming coal.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's coming.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't have regular phone, if you don't have regular places to charge, it's now worth that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And especially if you don't own your house, like I want you to go tell Mary to go spend a thousand dollars of great her rental house.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you got to go tell the landlord to spend that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's going to say no because I know her level.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, she has that leaf and she plugs it in overnight and it's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: She uses regular current or if you really, if you really want a level two and don't want to get a charger, just get a long cable like Andre has the stick in the dryer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she still says it wouldn't be our only car.
[SPEAKER_02]: She loves that leaf but it wouldn't be our only car.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a lot of people have that.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a basis, I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think nowadays you can live with the electric car just as you can live with an internal and it's and if you're gonna pay a quarter of the price because nobody Everybody in America thinks that you know they're thinking like from 10 or 15 years ago that electric cars are not tenable as every day cars Which is the argument you're making I disagree and I think you can save a bullet time of money by getting a use electric car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well folks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let us know what you think about How long we even know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cole's got to go
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's got to go do another shoot.
[SPEAKER_02]: So let us know what you think about this podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's been too much of us just whining and winging.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And drop this a comment below.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you to all of Patreon members for watching live and we'll see you next time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ciao.