[SPEAKER_00]: Thinking about your retirement to late, never to soon, but in what way?
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you diversify?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a top expert here right now who is telling us about a different way to think about your retirement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the show, Chris Klein.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for having me, it's great to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad that you are here because this is something that interests me personally because so no later we're all going to retire, but some smart and some not so smart and you give very wise, yeah should I say you're giving very wise insight and how to diversify
[SPEAKER_00]: how we think about retirement, how to invest in it, tell us about what's currently going wrong and what are you rectifying, how are you doing it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so absolutely, so I mean, we're here in the United States, we are in a retirement crisis.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's driven by, I think it starts with mindset.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a pretty solid financial literacy gap in our country today.
[SPEAKER_01]: They teach us, you know, Pythagorean theorem, A squared B squared C squared, we all memorize that, but most folks don't understand what an IRA is or a retirement savings plan or how taxes even work by the time they get out of high school,
[SPEAKER_01]: and even in college I went to business school at the University of Colorado and we didn't dive into a lot of the personal finance things, it was business finance things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you have that first layer of financial literacy and then there's this apathy because it feels like it's a mountain that's too heavy to climb, you know, that's just so steep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right now 50% of Americans do not participate in a retirement platform.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is or any type of program which is terrifying when you think about it because we all are going to get old right at some point we're not going to be able to work anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: At the same time those that are near retirement about a third of them feel like they're not going to outlast their money.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to run out of money before they pass away.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're getting older every day.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's about 11th, the 15,000 Americans are turning 65 every single day.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have all these put together, and Northwest Mutual did this really interesting study back right before COVID 2019.
[SPEAKER_01]: They asked about 20,000 Americans, how much do you think you need to retire comfortably?
[SPEAKER_01]: And the number that came up was $550,000, which is a pretty serenna, like that's a pretty sizable amount already.
[SPEAKER_01]: They did the survey with the same folks about a year ago to after COVID and after everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the number is a staggering 1.8 million now that people think they need to retire comfortably.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that comes to the core of rising costs for everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're at this point where even people that are close to retirement, maybe people that are in there, 20 to 30 years before retirement,
[SPEAKER_01]: the generation, I guess I consider myself, I'm not a millennial, but I'm 1985, so they consider me one, but I call myself a gen X, like the lost generation in between, and then younger than myself and my daughter's age, that even the concept of putting aside $200 a month in your 401k or your IRA, with all the other bills you have, student loans, those types of things, you're really kind of trapped in this,
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm damned if I do damned if I don't, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just boxed in and that's really where a lot of folks are sitting in Americans.
[SPEAKER_01]: We tend to do this thing where when it's uncomfortable, we just brush it under the rug and forget about it, it'll solve itself later and then later comes and it gets, it becomes an even more unsurroundable problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where's the government coming in on all this tokenization, blockchain, what do you think is happening?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's time still, I think there's time, what we did in what we focused on at Bitcoin IRA was our mission was to help more Americans retire.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we didn't just, I don't still get up on the soapbox and say, oh my god, this guy is following, we try to put action behind the words.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we built 10 years ago, we started the first Bitcoin retirement plan, and it allows folks, because this isn't my grandfather's economy.
[SPEAKER_01]: My grandfather was able to buy GE and a handful of stocks, hold him for 50 years, get the dividends, get his pension from here and walker, get us some social security checks, and he had a comfortable retirement.
[SPEAKER_01]: He did well for himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Both my grandparents did, or grandfather's, and both my grandmothers were, it was the 50s.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was different, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it is today.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you fast forward to where we're at today and most of the generation we need this what's called a modern portfolio theory You can't just rely on stocks holding US dollars for interest in a bank account for years compounding interest while great Thank you Warren Buffett and Charlie
[SPEAKER_01]: it doesn't really work in the modern economy you need a modern portfolio and that includes alternatives and alternatives can be gold or silver real estate private equity but what had didn't exist yet was Bitcoin or crypto at the time and so the challenge came across our desk could this be done and we'd already had a few years of experience in self-directed IRA so we said you know we'll take a crack at this and this was 2016 so Bitcoin was about $175-200 per Bitcoin and some of our early adopters are thrilled right
[SPEAKER_01]: And our goal was to just really empower folks to look at this as a different emerging asset class and have access to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were able to use the tools the government already gave us in the 1970s the government gave us IRAs in order to save funds for tax advantage settings and for long-term investing holds.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we use that structure, got all the same tax advantages, but we just were able to build in a solution for them to bring cryptocurrency into the space.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now we're, I think, just under 200,000 users and about 14 billion with a B and assets under custody today.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's obviously grown over the years, we're not just some kind of start-up dreaming about this concept.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've helped really, we really try to help Americans retire and be that, you know, that starting point where modern retirement investment begins.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in what way is this centralized assets?
[SPEAKER_00]: And in what way is it changing how people perceive financial security?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question.
[SPEAKER_01]: So decentralization takes us away from the centralized world and I think one of the things common people commonly ask is well, when did though I get this all the time, especially coming up with Thanksgiving dinner, et cetera, is when, when did the American dream break and why did it break and I always, I always go back to 1971 in the nicks and shock and we actually just celebrated, I think, like the four year anniversary of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: where up until that point, historically, the US dollar that we know it was backed by physical gold stored at the Federal Reserve of Fort Knox.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that moment, there was so many nations that were about to call in their debts, bring us dollars to get their gold back, the French in particular.
[SPEAKER_01]: that Nixon the president was in this box he was like oh what am I supposed to do and he shocked the world and said the US dollar is no longer convertible to gold which basically meant it was no longer backed by gold so now you couldn't go to the bank and put a hundred dollar bill and get out a hundred dollars worth of gold or silver like there was no inner change ability.
[SPEAKER_01]: That moment, if you look at almost every single chart of finance, socioeconomics, everything, and you're pretty well well-versed across like you said you're 10 miles long, eating.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you look at every single one of those charts, if you look around 1971, everything is up into the right, and most importantly, is monetary supply.
[SPEAKER_01]: The amount of money we pumped into the system.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's gotten, in my lifetime, the 90's stock market crash, the O-21, after 911, the O-8 housing crisis, COVID, close COVID.
[SPEAKER_01]: So these are all places where we're just basically printing money out of thin air, and who hurts the most from that is the American consumer.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what everything feels more expensive, whether it's eggs, houses, higher education, cars, everything feels more expensive because we've basically injected money in.
[SPEAKER_01]: that breaks the American dream that I'm I'm just turned 40 and I'm one of the few that I feel like might have pulled off but it used to be what a house a white pick at fence and two and a half kids right that was the American dream and retiring comfortably at 65.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a it's a tough world out there for anybody in our generation of we're just kind of every every few years we have another crisis you know like they say millennials we're so immune to crisis is anymore you tell us there's a crisis we're like oh another one great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's really where I think the dream broke is that we miss managed our money and that is where people are losing faith in the government's ability to manage money.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's every time we turn the corner, it's oh, we've got to put a more stimulus here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to buy more bonds here or we have to fix this debt or bail out this corporation or this sector and Americans are kind of getting fatigued from the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where Bitcoin is kind of this beacon on a hill, a shining light because it's scarce.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are only 21 million Bitcoin that'll ever be created.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that is the interesting part because that is when people are asking me about crypto.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, well, at least with crypto we know with Bitcoin how many exist with gold.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never know whether if they find more.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the value is fluctuating.
[SPEAKER_00]: with Bitcoin, there's actually a set number, and more and more people are losing their passwords.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they actually don't have access, but actually there's supply, shrinking the demand is getting greater.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's something that we're not used to.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've lived in this world of abundance.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is a world of scarcity, I always say we're kind of we're shifting from commas to decimal points So we've been doing commas for my whole lifetime We it was I remember when I was a kid man if I could just make a hundred thousand dollars a year I'd be I'd be wealthy, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was the mentality and now when I get to my 20s if there's a lot I need to make a million dollars a year And then once you do that you're like well after government Uncle Sam takes his half you're like well I guess I need to make five million dollars a year to feel to feel wealthy if you're comfortable
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's because there's so much money in the supply.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you take the average house is $420,000 medium home price.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you took that five years ago in terms of Bitcoin, it was about seven or eight Bitcoin.
[SPEAKER_01]: Today it's just around just about four.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you think in terms of Bitcoin, things are going down in price.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you think in terms of dollar, things are going up in price.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're about to hit this critical mass point between the two.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, you know, a lot of people, you'll have conversations.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know like it Thanksgiving and Christmas about.
[SPEAKER_01]: red versus blue Republicans do it's that's not the argument that really matters for Americans.
[SPEAKER_01]: They want us to believe that's what matters.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's an argument of orange versus green Bitcoin as as stable money store of value limited outside the control of five guys sitting in the Federal Reserve deciding how much we're going to make this year and what rates are going to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's consensus driven stable money, which is Bitcoin.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then from Bitcoin, there's been these offshoot of the Ethereum, XRP.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they all have utility, but really, I think the big daddy of them all is Bitcoin as that stable money that you'll see is even more stable than gold over years, over the years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which that's why Bitcoin is part of your company name.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, was the only one around in 2016, in 2015 when we built it, there was only Bitcoin.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the other ones have come since.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, where does that OG is what I always say?
[SPEAKER_00]: in early in the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no gray hairs when we started.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all those bear markets and that 12-year-old daughter of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fantastic, but also that you are now diversifying, obviously, within this new game of crypto, where you're saying, okay, we're not going to be like going all in on one, but we're going to observe the market.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do you
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you make these assessments okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: So there is this coin going on, this new one just launched, this one is getting more traction.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do you make a decision where to invest in for your clients?
[SPEAKER_01]: We start because we listen to our class customers.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have 200,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've close ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: The rocket rod is out of Florida.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a former NASA scientist.
[SPEAKER_01]: He did the heat shields for the space shuttle.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a client back.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was number 11.
[SPEAKER_01]: He calls and he's very proud to call himself
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, he's him and among others, I call him my engineers, you know, we're talking about, they're a former Intel AI guys, they will tell us, hey, I'm really interested in this project or this project.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll go through with a very, so we're not just kind of like exchange, like you think of a coin base.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're actually a fully integrated trust and regulated solution.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're regulated by the state and Nevada FID, and we have a robust compliance compartment, we're audited, sok to ensure all those things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we have a robust team where I'll go to the operations officer and to the compliance officer and say here's what this last quarter clients are asking for and we'll evaluate a few big things a what's their 24 hour volume because there's a lot what you find a lot with just like any like penny stocks and things like that is there's a lot of volume but it's concentrated in one place and one person sells off in the coins gone right.
[SPEAKER_01]: then you also look at what's their ability to fill market orders because if they I constantly have slippage so the price is constantly moving whether it's pennies or fractions of a penny that's very frustrating for clients and then we look at can it be stored securely?
[SPEAKER_01]: One of our big tendencies we we started with security first.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're we're trying to change the world in a really crazy way we're putting crypto inside of retirement.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the holy grail.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have to really invest in security we have cold storage solutions partners
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's important because how many people had their wallet wiped out?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is still something that things on people's mind that saying, you know, I'm very intrigued by that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to diversify my portfolio, but I want to make sure it's safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why you come in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly because you check that box.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because with self custody, which is I've done it myself It's it's actually really kind of difficult.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's you know these these ledger devices to go cold storage The very small and you got to remember the key got a store the key got to break the key at key Apart there's all these moving parts to it and people will lose their keys to lose the devices
[SPEAKER_01]: or they'll stay on an exchange.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll put $100,000 a Bitcoin on like Coinbase or Crackin, and we are our greatest weakness.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we get sim swapped or our email gets hacked, then those hackers know right where to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to match that pass where with your Coinbase, and they're going to empty you up before you even wake up to have your Cheerios in the morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that fact.
[SPEAKER_01]: it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what we've done is we've taken just like with any other retirement of asset, you have to have it at an arms length distance from you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a fiduciary has to hold the assets like the stocks, the bonds, the mutual funds, the cash.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an account that's aside from your personal accounts.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we do what we do direct custody, where we have multiple keys, all this insurance around it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I call it the pentagon of custody, which allows all these layers of security protecting you from your account, and then the connection between the wallet and the exchange is
[SPEAKER_01]: there's completely broken.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's never a chance even if somebody got into your account, they wouldn't be able to take your Bitcoin because of the layers that we put between yourself and the crypto.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that helps us with IRS fulfillment for the regulations of the tax advantage and also helps you sleep well at night knowing, hey, I've got my crypto.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then let's not forget, we all pass away at some point, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes it's tragic and quick and sometimes we have a long fulfilled life.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's some point you want to hand those crypto down to your wife or your husband or your
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but then to the past work and they know how to use those things and if you're will gets compromised from your lawyer, let's say you're law firm that you put it with or they state firm is their documents get compromised, your your your your past key can't be sitting there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we set it up where you have beneficiaries.
[SPEAKER_01]: So all they have to do is bring in, hey, Grandpa Joe past here's his death certificate.
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to follow the his his rules of 50% goes to grandma 50% goes to mom dad however he broke it down just like any other account.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that makes you hope to kind of sleep well at night knowing, you know, there's this story.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's in Jersey where a wife found one of those ledger devices and thought it was like an old USB drive and threw it away and it had like 25 at that time 25 million worth of Bitcoin on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The guy bought the trash dump where the where it ended up at and has been searching for like five years for this device because I mean to him it was worth it was like I'm gonna find this 20 because I think it now is probably
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe even a hundred million dollars worth and he just recently gave up because it just couldn't be found and that those are the things that you don't want to worry about when you get into crypto investing and that's really the bridge we try to the gap we try to bridge is yes it's new it's fresh it's kind of scary technology but it can be just as easy as click click click and secure
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like back then when people were scared of the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, in the beginning, when you don't know much about it, it's the same with AI.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we got to look at the good and the bad, but still use it to our benefit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the benefits are fantastic, at least for people to also dive into it, take control, get educated as always the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that you are educating me on this because I learned a lot just through this interview so I'm an audience for that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and don't forget in the time of this interview the US government probably printed $21 million of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how fast they printed and there's only $21 million Bitcoin that ever exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can keep that at the core and actually you and I won't maybe my daughter I don't know how old your kids are will live to see the last Bitcoin mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be sometime
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a process that gets slower and slower and slower as we get to the finish line And we're about to hit that supply element where people are going to say there's not enough Bitcoin to go around to have one Bitcoin Could be life-changing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I personally Set a mark and April of Bitcoin hitting 180,000 this year and I'm still bullish to get that will we'll get that by the years
[SPEAKER_01]: and there's a lot of folks like sailor skirmucci out of the major players out there calling for by twenty thirty five a million dollar big because of that scarcity so it's it's getting off zero you don't put all your eggs in one basket right uh but getting some exposure to crypto especially bitcoin you your future self will be very happy with you
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to have you back in the not-to-distant future to see what has happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: To see where the market has been going and where the crypto has been going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely, it's now something has become more mainstream.
[SPEAKER_00]: People should just dive into it, read about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I make my kids nine and 13, read about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, thank you so much for joining us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, thanks for having me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, pleasure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Join us again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Next time.