[SPEAKER_02]: Hey everybody, David here with part two of our one battle after another movie coverage.
[SPEAKER_02]: The part one with Anthony should already be in your feeds.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we are definitely planning for a part three.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just need to work on scheduling with Jean.
[SPEAKER_02]: and we'll figure it out from there.
[SPEAKER_02]: This part 2 is kind of a comical in a way because I was talking with GD and Ron and they wanted to talk about the movie but then I offered to go into their show but then when we were scheduling they thought that they were coming onto our show
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it was a little bit of a mix up, so we just went ahead with recording this particular podcast on Friday last Friday.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then on Sunday, I ended up going on their YouTube channel with both Ron and JD and then their two friends Edu and Javan and we had a conversation there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've been on.
[SPEAKER_02]: three podcasts in as as many days wasn't planned.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is all just being spontaneously organized.
[SPEAKER_02]: The only real planned thing was for Anthony and Jean and I and then we have Jean re-schedule and I'm just trying to organize for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, I need to warn you on this podcast that this is not the normal tone or energetic levels that we normally have on our podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a lot more vigorous and lively and joking.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of back and forth with JD and Ron, that's part of their stick on their podcast, they are great friends, and I've come to really enjoy talking with Ron, and now I'm really having a lot of fun with JD as well, but this is not our normal fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just want you to wear it, there's a lot of cross talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of sort of piling on each other a little bit in different funny ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: We joke about race, we talk about sex, and we talk, we get into the whole conversation with Lockjaw and Perfidia Beverly Hills, and what that is about.
[SPEAKER_02]: So some of the conversations may stray into areas that you may not be comfortable with.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's fine, you know, if this podcast is, if you start to listen to this podcast, you realize, hey, this isn't necessarily for me, totally cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Check out no big deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just a different flavor than we're used to recording on here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is funny.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we all have a really good time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm really looking forward to talking with Ron and the other fellows on the Dungeons & Do Rags show in the near future.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of that said, if you do have comments or questions, you're welcome to send them in, lorehounds at the lorehounds.com, we read everything, we don't always reply to everything, but we do read everything and we try to read most comments in good faith.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, all of that said, I do hope you enjoy the conversation, it is a good time.
[SPEAKER_02]: a couple of quick programming notes, which is wrapped on a whole bunch of shows, foundation, obviously, Alicia has her final piece maker episode out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got one more bonus episode for Alien Earth planned.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're in the middle of Spooktober, so Alicia is she's organizing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're covering the Zach Krieger movies, weapons for that'll be on the public feed, and then we're doing a lordown between companion and barbarian.
[SPEAKER_02]: That'll be out for subscribers.
[SPEAKER_02]: Frankenstein project is coming up the movie obviously is coming out another movie predator badlands excited for that television shows we've got a marvel zombies in the pipeline and also I'm not sure where John and Alicia are coming down but I know they're going to do something about Talimuska
[SPEAKER_02]: and then I think they're doing stuff on it welcome to dairy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So stay tuned for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm working on plans for Pluribus, the new Vince Gilligan, which will be out in November and then our good friends over at Radioactive Ramlers are going to be covering fallout when that starts up in December.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got a lot of other stuff in the pipeline as well, little projects here and there so stay tuned.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you are a subscriber,
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for your support.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're just a listener, a great to have you here, and anything you can do to help the podcast is always appreciated.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we know that things are really awkward right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So no sweat on that at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're just glad that we get to have a fun community to talk about all these kinds of movies and TV shows that we really enjoy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And on that note, I hope you enjoy this conversation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then if you do have feedback, you know, feel free to send it in
[SPEAKER_02]: Ron and GD welcome back to the Laura Hounds.
[SPEAKER_02]: Could you see you guys how you've been good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, I was waiting for the Laura Hounds music.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'll try out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll fly it in and post.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that's quite right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just making it easier.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do it live, do it live.
[SPEAKER_02]: This this podcast may be a little bit more energetic that are usual.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so let's get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get it going.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is part two of our one
[SPEAKER_02]: podcast series.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what's going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anthony and I recorded relative to this recording yesterday.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were supposed to have Jean on with us, but he's his spouse was not feeling very well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to catch up with him later.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I thought I was going to guess on.
[SPEAKER_02]: your show today, but you you guys were like, no, we're guessing on your show.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're like, oh, forget just throw it all out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's just hit record.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was like, baby, we got to freestyle on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're here to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are going to spoil everything from right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you haven't seen the movie, get out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I assume you guys have seen the movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: What do we have to do here?
[SPEAKER_03]: Your previous discussion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to know where you guys left off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's such a complicated movie to try to unpack it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me ask you.
[SPEAKER_03]: You were on what you said with that Anthony?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was with Anthony.
[SPEAKER_03]: Did he enjoy the film?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he was, he was very high on the film.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not high when he watched the film or he's.
[SPEAKER_02]: He, you know, and check, his, uh, his general take was good.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not, he's, he's a Paul Thomas Anderson fan, but I don't think he's a fan boy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's, uh, uh, he really likes to caprio, uh,
[SPEAKER_02]: and was just excited to talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was the first person to text me.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, are we doing a one shot on one battle?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like one battle.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I looked at the trail, you know, at some of the promo material.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, decapario in a bit of LaBazki robe with like a little bit of glasses.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is this like taken meat?
[SPEAKER_02]: LaBazki?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what is, I don't know what this is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not watching it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he texted me and I was like, okay, so I went and saw it and I was like, oh shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: was like, oh, I was not at all prepared for this movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be a lot to talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So generally speaking, yes, I enjoyed this, I enjoyed this movie a lot and so did Anthony.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were just taking a part different layers and talking about to Caprio and Penn and the portrayals and the world, the cinematography of it all and everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we were just kind of doing what we're doing here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But
[SPEAKER_02]: All sort of generally positive.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Jones got some concerns about what his feelings are about the movie, but you know We will catch up with him eventually so he can express those those feelings.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you guys think?
[SPEAKER_02]: About the movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually got a beautiful blue sky today.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can be 72 degrees.
[SPEAKER_00]: That'll be a bomby 21 Celsius if for those of you in your movie we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I'll serve.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to move.
[SPEAKER_00]: I serve for the second time this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I think I like to better the second time that I saw it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I mean, I liked it the first time too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was able to notice different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't notice the first time when I watched the second time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we actually had a bigger audience the second time, funny enough, and we saw on a Tuesday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the first time we saw on a weekend, I think maybe even opening weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the second time was this this past Tuesday for the cheap Tuesday night ticket price and right.
[SPEAKER_00]: we actually had a bigger crowd.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that vicarious experience of enjoying it with a crowd that's laughing along, I think that kind of added to
[SPEAKER_00]: my enjoyment this other time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the reasons why I think it's like for me, why I wanted to have a conversation about it is, you know, like for me, the two films and can test and, or contest and for best picture would be this in centers, and we're trying
[SPEAKER_00]: and for me personally it's still for like sinners has the edge in terms of a liquid I would want but I think there's a lot here to discuss and and I think you know one of the conversations that comes up that a recurring theme obviously is is the idea of race the role that black women
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he was a co-writer was he a co-writer or the solewriter.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's sold credit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so he's working off like 20 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, what is it like to have, you know, white man tell the story that centers on black women as much as it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does he portray them in a fair light?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen two different takes from black women creators one fantastic Frankie.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a black women creator, popular on TikTok and Instagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: She thought it was one of the most complex and beautiful portrayals of black women on cinema.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's other but you also had a lot of criticism too.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like it hurt her her critique left me confused when I when I got through with her little video that's it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like huh?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there was O.B.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we got her name
[SPEAKER_03]: It's OBA, I have a book, OBA, Black Girl watching.
[SPEAKER_00]: Black Girl watching Substack.
[SPEAKER_00]: She did not care for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: She ripped it, she ripped it, but she has some very valid points.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, so that's why I went and talked about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be cool to kind of talk in the sky, and but at the end of the day, it was enjoyable.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a movie that makes you think.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does with great movies that,
[SPEAKER_00]: the generate conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's one of those things that's going to go down as people are going to be talking about it for years.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll study in school.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a great art.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, type of this head to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm kind of sad because like it sounds like you guys when you saw it you had your audiences that were lively and into it because when I went I snuck away on Tuesday and saw it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we went to a screening over here out here in Santa Clarita and it was it was a smaller theater and they're not to be smart elderly, but it was they're a whole bunch of old people in the audience.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, young people and it was quiet.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could hear a pin drop through the whole movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no last at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, so that, so that set a certain vibe for me when I was watching, I was like, man, I think this is supposed to be a little funnier, a little more like hard.
[SPEAKER_03]: If they were just, they were in Prague.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't like they, you know, were, you know, nobody would have got up and walked off, but it was like, uh, you know, interesting experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, just to- Was that your first time watching it, JD?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I might go see it again tonight because you'll have to go to a screening pass.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's a producer.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the guild is having something where actually Tiana Taylor is going to be speaking doing a Q&A after one hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: You should definitely hook that up.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, she's going to seven.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm going to try to sneak in and go with her to check it out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, I'll do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I mean, because really, I think
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of the feedback that I've seen centers around her character and, and, and, and the development of the story in regards to her and so that that'll be interesting to go hear her take and and what she had to say because going back to your your comment on about fantastic Frankie.
[SPEAKER_03]: She had a lot of similar, I felt like, viewpoints with Brooke Obey about the fetizization of black women in the film, and how Tiana Taylor's character, Perfidia was portrayed.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then she, it seemed like her video essay really went away to talk about all the fetishization and kind of attacking PDA, but then it was like, this is the most complex, wonderful black woman that's ever been created.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was like, I actually put like, um, she said, I don't think her video or she says,
[SPEAKER_03]: she says one of the most well written black female characters in cinema history i just right i thought i was like not cuz not not like i just think that there's i but i think
[SPEAKER_03]: And for me, the shortcoming was that I felt like he spent a lot of time on that character that was on.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like 40 minutes where we're at that first and to me it's prologue.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because the real story doesn't begin until we lock in and a champagne has to kill his illegitimate biracial daughter.
[SPEAKER_03]: to get into this, you know, the Santa Claus cult, you know, whatever, that's what the roast, I mean, you can literally cut off the front and start it from that point and the story would still hold.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and it literally had a 40 minute prologue with this radical, you know, over the top,
[SPEAKER_03]: black woman or the whole group, not just her, but the revolutionary cringe 75.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, for a 75 that's going around doing these, well, this revolutionary terrorist acts to stabilize the immigration policy systems we have in America.
[SPEAKER_02]: This movie is intentionally a four act structure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I need to fact check some of this, but some of what I'm picking up on is that,
[SPEAKER_02]: He used the lame miserab as a model where the first act is just crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: situation where all this shit happens, and then acts two, three, and four are all in response to what happened in Act 1.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everybody's picking up the pieces, and it totally tracks, and all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is very distinct, the opening, the first act, the fourth act, they're radically different in some ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is, but get it, it's
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like one of those food shows where, like, wow, you've got all these different components in blah, blah, blah, but it eats as a whole piece and it all works together.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like that, because each act has a different tone to it, but yet the whole thing just works at some level.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think, what do you think, Ron?
[SPEAKER_03]: I want monopolized discussion.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I said a lot in the opening, so finished the points that you were making.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just going to say, I hear all that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think, I think, um,
[SPEAKER_03]: It, again, because it's almost three hours.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're looking at two hours and 50 minutes.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a long film.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't feel bored or I wasn't like a watch.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It didn't feel good to me at all, but, but some people didn't like our girl, black girl watching was like, kill me now.
[SPEAKER_03]: When is this thing going to be over as late too long?
[SPEAKER_02]: And what other happens when you are not invested in a story when you find this a lot with this show?
[SPEAKER_03]: For me, I was just going along for the ride.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to see what this is about or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to, by the way, I'm going to put links to a black girl watching in fantastic Friday and the good.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, is there a wacky, I can message stuff because I have all this stuff written down to me out to be helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, just shared to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I got, I have, you know, it's also, um, yeah, let me do this because, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: I vibe on what they're saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can understand the critiques that Franky had also F.D.
[SPEAKER_03]: Signifier did a wonderful video essay on it that I thought was.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, whatever you got and I'll throw it into the session right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does your, did your wife with, has she seen it yet?
[SPEAKER_02]: Does she have an opinion?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, she hasn't seen it yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's personally.
[SPEAKER_03]: not listen to my wife is black and I'm mixed so that's you know it's a double land me for me and in terms of the movie I you know a couple touchdowns there for me so I just see me on to I don't know she's gonna have something to say but I mean I know she's been I think yeah I think she'll have some yeah she'll have some spicy I'm sure she'll have some spicy show from it's about it
[SPEAKER_02]: if it comes up and she feels free because I know she's in the industry and so she had to be careful a little bit but if she's got stuff to say, then let me know and then we'll yeah, she really loves to get up and talk and get on these things.
[SPEAKER_03]: She just has to be careful with her position.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, and I would love to hear a perspective as she feels like she's yeah because because one thing I'll say is this, the one I understand I think
[SPEAKER_03]: Paul Thompson, you might have got out a little bit ahead of his skis on you understand what he was trying to do and like you brought it, ladies, Rob, which I read, I read S.Y.R.
[SPEAKER_03]: article and you know, I get the sense of, okay, you're trying to do this in a vacuum that's cool, but in our current situation in America.
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, he's hitting hot button issues that he's really just scratching the surface and not really delving into.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think that's what really rubs people the wrong way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially when there's been a lot of time, you know, with the with the Frist 75, but you don't really get into.
[SPEAKER_03]: there's ample time to kind of get into, like, uh, perfurious character, um, same at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Perfidious character.
[SPEAKER_03]: Perfidious Beverly Hills.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, everything just seems kind of, everything is very unique and interesting, but then we never dealt beyond what's driving that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Usually women don't act this way.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's get into this and we never do.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like it's kind of surface.
[SPEAKER_03]: And one thing I wanted to point out is that, I wrote something down that FD signifier said in his video essay, which I thought was brilliant.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, because he, he has a whole thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: He liked the movie, but he has his issues with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And one of the things he talked about was he came over this concept called woke washing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which is kind of like white washing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he says woke washing is when Hollywood takes and it takes images that we perceive as woke or progressive or whatever, and puts them in places where they don't really belong for the sole purpose of washing over the actual underlying meaning of certain messages and issues of whatever the media.
[SPEAKER_03]: they're trying to pull out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Walkwashing, disarms, normie audiences, quote unquote, normie audiences, other critical engagement of the media, so that the story they have in mind and the policies of that story are openly conflict with each other, but no one notices, and they're still having a good time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then you want to talk about the movie, Dumb Money, a film that basically is about,
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't even know if he had this accurately, but it talks about the whole game stop scandal.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a whole bunch of, you know, bros on there, you know, had a sexual white guy say, he's generally the idea of who brought down, you know, they're trying to, they're basically, the voters will come circling game stop and they're gonna try to destroy the company and this is what I recall.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he didn't say this, I think he kind of had it backwards, but the point he makes is still there is that there are these online guys
[SPEAKER_03]: They prevent a Wall Street from dismantling GameStop and ruining the company.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the stock shot up and it's literally saved the company.
[SPEAKER_03]: And AMC kind of had that going on too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Around the same time, the AMC movie theaters are going through it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the people came in and they saved them.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's a thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and so, but when he, he showed video clips of all these crazy radical white guys that look like, you know, over Charlie current warriors or something that we're like in this fight, but then when they made the movie, it was a hot podge, motley crew of, you know, the more distant franchise or marginalized people that probably really didn't have anything to do with dumb money, but that's the way they shared it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the way the film was created.
[SPEAKER_03]: to make it the same gang, and it says really, there's motley crew of revolutionaries that are, you know, there was a lesbian, Mary couple I think, and then there's one of the guys from Hamilton, and just people that were not,
[SPEAKER_03]: You didn't typically see that for these movements that were going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was more, you know, heterosexual white guys that were in on the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's his idea of white washing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, or woke washing, where they'll, they'll take certain concepts and they'll skew the,
[SPEAKER_03]: The characters of how they present these warriors, and I think also Brooke had mentioned, again, I didn't realize a lot of this, like they're talking about revolutionaries in what night, and there is Brooke had mentioned, there was a couple of, she compared and contrast the Black Panther party with, there was a crazy radical,
[SPEAKER_03]: white group, students of something I can't remember what it was, but there are a couple groups where they would just go in and antagonize a police and then end up getting shot or whatever and even some of the brothers from the Black Panther Party will comment on it and say this is not a go away to be revolutionary.
[SPEAKER_03]: Should you guys are just taking your members and you know you're fodder for the police to come in for the pigs to come in and shoot you guys up and you have no purpose.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're just coming in being anarchist versus revolutionaries and so
[SPEAKER_03]: Some of the people are coming to this movie without perspective, having the knowledge of historical contacts and saying, wait a minute, why is it this, the gist that I got from them was like, you know, perfidia and all the characters involved in a French 75 movement.
[SPEAKER_03]: it's rich that they're going to have them be the ones that are these anarchists or whatever that don't really seem revolutionary like the one thing that broke really on and I was like revel it which was an interesting distinction she's like revolutionaries come out of love it's like that there's one thing even though they're they're fighting and they have a they're coming from a standpoint of love they they're passionate about the country about saving people what not where other times you can have people who are
[SPEAKER_03]: radicalized and just start blowing up stuff and they have a viewpoint that they want to get out there, but that becomes, they say more in line with like terrorism.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're just straight terrorism and anarchy and so I think talk too long so let me up my box.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that brings up a really important part of the storyline, which is who are the true revolutionaries in this movie because when you look at somebody like,
[SPEAKER_02]: sensei del Toro's character.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those people are revolutionaries.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are their resistance fighters are struggling.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have systems.
[SPEAKER_02]: They have protocols in place.
[SPEAKER_02]: They follow them.
[SPEAKER_03]: They are under the railroad set up for.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what did he say?
[SPEAKER_02]: I forget the line.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says we're Anthony and I were talking about this last night that brown people have been
[SPEAKER_02]: dealing with this stuff for a long time, where Bob is like, oh, I'm just a dumb white guy who started blowing up stuff a couple, you know, decade ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: And since I was like, bro, we've been doing this for hundreds of years, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that really hit me, and I was like, oh, and then the question of who perfidia is, you know, what, and we were talking last night about the film Civil War,
[SPEAKER_02]: the 2024 Alex Garland movie because I think how to blow pipeline civil war in this movie are all in communication with each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you guys seen this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw how to blow pipeline with I didn't see civil war.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's it's pretty intense.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things in civil war is it's about a group of photojournalists.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the film caught a little flack because, oh, these are just thrill seekers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I dabbled in a little bit of photo journalism and I knew a couple of photo journalists.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've been in a couple of police actions, situations or gas that, you know, streets full of gas.
[SPEAKER_02]: And batons are swinging in that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can absolutely be a qualified journalist who believes in journalism and reporting facts and all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a thrill seeker.
[SPEAKER_02]: and that you are into, you know, the, the thrill of...
[SPEAKER_02]: Turned you on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Conflicts reporting.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a, that is a thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can have the, the truth of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, Perfidia can actually be a person who has a values and beliefs and ideals and a thrill seeker.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a mom who goes to an incredible postpartum depression scenario.
[SPEAKER_02]: which is a really complex topic as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, let me, let me push back on that, though, because I, like, I don't know that they showed that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, because it could also be that she just, like, I don't want to, because some people are talking about postpartum, and I'm not arguing that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But,
[SPEAKER_03]: as told in the story which she was so radical in the first place that I don't know the maybe she wasn't going to post part maybe that's just her maybe she just crazed you that way and you know just and trying to settle down and be a mom versus be a run-in like to me I don't think that was her life at all and so I think it's a part of her
[SPEAKER_02]: it as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they did show the postpartum because she specifically here talking about how she feels jealous of something her nipples heard.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's talking about the kinds of things that women go through when they do have postpartum.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and we're three men on a microphone here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like we're not trying to, let me tell you how women go through it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me let me
[SPEAKER_00]: exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to tackle the fetishization.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the question is fair to ask, is perfidia fetishize to the point where the audience is being invited to
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's an example, Tarantino and his obsession with toes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that feels like the director fetishizing toes.
[SPEAKER_00]: In a sense,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, well, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not even fluttered that.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, he's a foot freak.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, when I came to him in here, but you know, I don't even call anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jumped out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, oh, dude, what can we move?
[SPEAKER_03]: Almost every move.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I never picked up on him.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've never heard about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Remember, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Would she get your feet back together?
[SPEAKER_02]: uh you know in the truck when she's in the in the she gets out of the hospital and she's trying to make her little toe wiggle.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just I hate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you see you Matt, you see it in glorious bastards.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take your word for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, the point is, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's starting to Internet for anything about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do not search the Internet for Argentina for cash.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to go on a deep dive after this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I brought the podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: What did I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to go on a deep dive after this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my point is, you know, when you, when you have that mindset,
[SPEAKER_00]: And we see the scenes that are usually heralded as the one where he's fetishizing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not really part of the story, that fetishization of feet or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just, because you know that, you sense it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it maybe makes you feel certain way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, have we knowing that information?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you see it?
[SPEAKER_00]: You feel like, oh, the director has this fetish.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is how he is expressing it and is directing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't get that impression from this movie per se, and it sounds like I don't feel like PTA comes across as having a fetishization of black women.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like the character in Lockjaw does.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can see it in Lockjaw in the way he looks at her.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing Zadee says about her, but I don't feel like like I don't feel like in our whenever we're
[SPEAKER_00]: through anyone's eyes, other than lock jaws, I don't feel like she's being fetishized.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then it correct me if I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's only when he's in the frame or in the picture where that sense of fetizization comes through when he's looking at her to the binoculars, when he's talking about her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, okay, go ahead, finish.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so obviously, I don't necessarily get that sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: in any other scenes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's a scene where she's with with she's with Pat later comes Bob, but I don't feel like that fetishization.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like those are two people who love each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that's I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's unfair criticism on Bob.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I don't I didn't get fetishization from him at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's also a double standard.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you know, some of the critiques ourselves, like, oh, here's this attractive, amazing black woman who's gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_03]: Of course, people are going to be drawn to her and attracted her because of her beauty and it's like that's not that a Disation that's like human nature that's just like must be bang it.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is you know and that really hot that tells part of her story as a leader.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you could have somebody who is Good in action right like being
[SPEAKER_02]: anemic from and or something like that where you're writing the manifestos and you're thinking through the political theories and you're understanding the levers of power and how to sway masses.
[SPEAKER_02]: That isn't necessarily somebody who can pick up a gun and pointed at somebody with the intent to pull the trigger if they need to.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a different skill set.
[SPEAKER_02]: As is a different skill set
[SPEAKER_02]: being a leader that people feel drawn to and willing to suspend their life as they know it to join a radical movement.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think Perfidia has charisma.
[SPEAKER_02]: and energy and excitement and enjoyment of the action does that make her a bad revolutionary?
[SPEAKER_02]: It might be incompatible with being a mom, but does it make her a bad revolutionary?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just wanted to go back too quickly, Ron, I kind of agree with you that I don't think the movie is fetishizing her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Lockjaw is fetishizing her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think through that, we get to see Anderson giving us a
[SPEAKER_02]: in a slightly, I don't want to say tongue and cheek, but he does, there's a lot of humor around it, and a lot of seriousness around it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think he really puts the mirror of American culture being fetish, fetishizing black culture at the same time trying to disobey and control and suppress black culture.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just saw a video today, some six year old white kid break dancing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, and we talk about appropriation and all this kind of stuff, but America constantly takes culture from the black community.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: The world.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're like, go over to Asia.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, even I don't take it over.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, so black culture is a source of something and being fetishized.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, then you got, you know, Santa Claus and his buddies, I think there's also a situation where I think that given that PTA is also married to a black woman, that there are things that do see about that he might not be caught just up or maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, because you know, you're interesting, you brought up the whole foot thing about
[SPEAKER_03]: PTA is Bob, that's who he's packed, you know, so that's him, and it's like, you know, he's trying to, and you know, he has black children, he's trying to grapple with these things and he's concepts as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a, and I think, I think, where the, the, some of the tension comes with the audience for certain, my audience members is that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Perfuria per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per, per,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine cast your mouth.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Perfidget is an amazing car.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very interesting and engaging right from the jump.
[SPEAKER_03]: People are very, and I know black one were very, so I don't hold this, you know, town of Taylor's bank and she's, you know, known in the black coat, you know, in black entertainment.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's not some new,
[SPEAKER_03]: she's been around so people are and so she's got this big moment to start this huge film and there's a lot of excitement around that and then when they see it her you don't really it's it's almost like psycho where you know in psycho you know the whole first section of the film is about one of the biggest stars out there and then and then she's gone
[SPEAKER_03]: And then in the release, the story is about this crazy dude that runs the baseball tell, but you think it's going to be about something else.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the frustration is that you present me with this juicy, amazing, interesting character and you're only going to scratch the surface.
[SPEAKER_03]: We spend a whole lot of time with her and you don't really delve into it and then she's gone.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it just sets up everything else to follow after that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where I think a lot of the frustration comes in where it feels like it's
[SPEAKER_03]: where is it truly, is she just being fetishized and the director himself doesn't realize what he set up in terms of audience reception?
[SPEAKER_03]: Versus, understand the technically the story he's trying to tell, but does he understand how we are receiving the story he's told?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's one area where you could make the argument that both the director and Leo's character,
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have someone to finish and I just remember this line after I think it's in the prologue section after they do the big he likes black girls yeah yeah I love black I don't think that's fair I understand why because the thing is this you got to think about.
[SPEAKER_03]: Perfidian how she is she's very domineering is I think this white point black girl Tony He'd like I don't see him disagreeing with her and he's I think you know, you know, yes I'm down with the revolution.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he's whatever she says he's gonna have her back.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, he so I don't know that that
[SPEAKER_03]: The other things obviously, you know, a Sean Panner or whatever, but it's a one-liner and they're all joking and they're all excited and they're laid after.
[SPEAKER_03]: True.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, this isn't getting all this.
[SPEAKER_03]: The people out of distance and center.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that, I don't know if I would go whole hog, like, oh, he's fetishizing her again.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think that's fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what I said.
[SPEAKER_00]: You did his thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's a beautiful woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you know, you can't have it both ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can't have it being this incredibly gorgeous woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: He can't.
[SPEAKER_03]: He can't have said, I love beautiful women.
[SPEAKER_03]: He said, I love black women.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't really need to say spaces and people not taking words out of context and it just I'm like, I'm on everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I said you could bring that up as a victim.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, one could one would bring that up, but yeah, should one should one.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's another.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this, that's a big question around this whole movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have entered into this conversational space with Taylor and, and I'm really interested if you go to the show tonight, I'd love to hear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I wouldn't stay about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_03]: All the criticism that heard about the black fetizization, especially in her character, I totally get, you know, like, and, and, and, and.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, them also picking a part because a lot of the commentaries like knowing his backstory, you know, they made it my root off and he's, you know, this white guy and he actually feticizing his wife.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it just started getting really, um, various cycle analytical.
[SPEAKER_03]: But let me ask you this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the roles were reversed and you had a black character saying, I love white women.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: We got there is a real reversed.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have your car, the right old, the right old, the right old got his microphone.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, come here, white girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he doesn't say he calls a white girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's almost like she's a cream.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's his prize.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wanted a white girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, they do, I mean, but finish, you were gonna, I don't know if that's why.
[SPEAKER_00]: My point was if that particular line that Pat slash Bob says was reverse, he was a black man yelling, I love white women.
[SPEAKER_00]: You absolutely would see that as,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that you would call it a fetishization, but to have a black man say, so loudly, I love white women, what, in and of itself a provocative statement that would fall differently than Leo saying, I love black women.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, Brooke, Brooke brings out up.
[SPEAKER_03]: She says exactly what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: She says that, yeah, he means the black to black women.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we lost him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, well, we're bringing him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is coming back?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: The, I think this issue of like the, the, the, the buy racial couples, you know, you have the laureate of character play by Wood Harris and his family underused.
[SPEAKER_00]: He, but Wood Harris needs to get more breaks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he, I wonder there's, and one of their scenes of him and the cutting room floor that, that,
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't make the movie, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't make the cut.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's such a long movie now, so it's hard to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like the movie touches on interracial relationships a little bit, and doesn't really make space to get into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's already long enough as it is, so it's hard to do that, so I can understand, but because interracial relationships
[SPEAKER_00]: to touch on them, and that dive as deep as probably you could.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then again, you know, you can look at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So locked up, would you say, like, do you think locked up was genuinely in love with perfidia?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if as a person, yeah, maybe whatever minute, but I, that's a good question.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't thought about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: because all the other stuff is obvious.
[SPEAKER_02]: But does he love her for who she is?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's one point in the movie where he's, where he has willow.
[SPEAKER_00]: and he's taken her to, he's taken her, and he's yelling at her, and he's saying, like, you don't even have the strength of your mother or something like that, and that's a good point.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've only seen it once, so it's not fresh in my mind, but that I do remember that, and he's comparing her to, yeah, do you have what your mother had, which is right, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for him to talk about her in that way, suggest that he had more than just the fetalization of her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I feel like,
[SPEAKER_00]: And I almost feel like he's the kind of person he doesn't, he wouldn't understand or know how to process the feelings he was feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I think there'll be a combination of shame that he was like this about a black woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that he genuinely cares for her in some twisted way as well as fetishizing her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, obviously,
[SPEAKER_02]: he had to settle down and have a house and, you know, by go out and buy dishes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, when he's coming to her door, he brings flowers.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's dressed up, but he's bringing flowers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a part of him who really does care for her and his own sick interest.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the demented way, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was thinking,
[SPEAKER_00]: I almost think part of his anger at Willah is rooted in his and a perfid is rejection of him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting, because when you think about it, he's chasing Willah, you know, 16 years later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I think it's was he trying to get in, I'm trying to remember was he attempting to get into the
[SPEAKER_03]: during the prologue as well or was it after the prologue that he's first introduced hey JD you back we had uh... it's a conspiracy to white man he has been on down when he's waiting for the off
[SPEAKER_03]: No, Revolution will not be podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, we had, it turned out to be a crazy morning where we got some more done in a house and a inspector had to come over and look at stuff we did on a breakout box and they actually shut the food power off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we were discussing whether or not I'm locked up genuinely loved a profidia and I brought out the point of how
[SPEAKER_00]: when he captured her and he's dragging her, dragging Willa and he's yelling how like you don't have the strength of your mother or he was saying how she isn't live up to the memory of his of her mother.
[SPEAKER_00]: So kind of elevating her in a sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when he goes to meet with her, he brings flowers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think he made that complicated things about her that he felt shamed about.
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't know how to process.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think there's a part of his own sexuality.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why didn't I tie shirt?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, there's a lot of that going on, there's a lot of that going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not married, it's successful, not a cherry guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, but I'm trying to remember we need first, when he was first applying for the Christmas of interest club.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it after the prologue?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was actually prologue, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think so.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's, they come, that's right, because he's, yeah, it's during an operation and, yeah, because junior strike 20 years later, when the immigration's really hitting the fan and then they, you know, they, and they noticed him because he's doing so well at rounding up immigrants.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the reason why I brought that up is because I wonder what his,
[SPEAKER_00]: With the direction of his life, career, et cetera, going differently, had he stayed for lack of a bit of a word, in any kind of relationship with Perfidia, even if it was in the deltures.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, here's my point, I was making, I was saying, I feel like a lot of his anger at Willah, it could have been born in the rejection he got from Perfidia, like earlier that got built up
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, I don't know, I'll go ahead.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sorry, David.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was going to say that this is what makes this character so fascinating because he's such a bag of walking contradictions.
[SPEAKER_02]: He at once has power over and yet is subservient to power.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is at once dismissive of black culture, of radical culture, but yet is entanted and enticed by it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He lives in a heteronormative, cis society.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yet, he's sexually excited by transgressing those boundaries, not the acts that are transgressing, but the boundary that he's transgressing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Warring super tight.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, super tight.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so he's like super complex in all of these different ways, you know, the guilt of feeling of a father, figure, and being there for his daughter, but yet,
[SPEAKER_02]: She is the reason why he can't join the Christmas adventure as straight up, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: He's got to go and do all this crazy stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is well, too, when you think about it, this whole community's world is turned upside down because of one man's obsession to get into this elite club.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, people get arrested, people get shot, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: He turns a whole town upside down.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's told the town upside down.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, one seeming transgression by this club where he's got to clean up, you know, what, what he did.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's the real point.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I would caution and say, to me, it felt like more 12 years of slave when the slave owner, I can't remember, um, uh, thing is, come, come, uh, come or back, come or back, just care.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: He, when he beats, uh, uh, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: patchy because you want to go get a bar.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like he lost after her.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think that that's, you know, I don't know that he loved, I think he was emfatuated with her.
[SPEAKER_03]: But love, and again, that's, slay retimes.
[SPEAKER_03]: But to me, there I see something similar in that here's this guy who's emfatuated with his incredibly gorgeous black woman.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, and they have these trists where they'll meet, you know, they're, you know, pay for play, sex, you know, hey, y'all keep you out of jail, you know, and as long as you do favors for me, you know, to me, that's, you know, that's not real.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no love.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think there's any love.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's sexually assaulting her, you know, it's basically, you, you fuck me and you get off if not, you're going to jail.
[SPEAKER_03]: And also, you need to help me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to rat on your friends, which he does.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, to me, love, I don't, I don't, I didn't see love anywhere in that relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, you just want to listen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how he's asked what he got, and he got turned on from the moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because he, you know, she's actually assaulted him in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, he can't get hard.
[SPEAKER_03]: Stay hard.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there was a weird relationship going on with them, but, but ultimately he's got the power and he kept it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I don't see, you know, you could bring something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't trying to paint the picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had some traditional home ground,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, leave it to Beaver, style, love, affection and for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying, I think what type of love are you talking about, Ron?
[SPEAKER_00]: What type of love are you talking about, Dan?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm, I'm, let me explain.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there was a part of him that loved, that loved her.
[SPEAKER_00]: that didn't just fetish size her, that wasn't just sexually attracted to her, that genuinely loved her, and his own six sick twisted and lamented way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, and maybe it's admiration or better because otherwise, why would he say something to a like, you don't live up to your mother or something long as lines?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some type of admiration there that he has for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe maybe that said, but there's something there that he has for her that he feels connected to.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fact that he brings the fact that he bring flowers to a woman like perfidia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing about her suggests that she's a flower type of woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he brings her flowers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_03]: So he kind of has love like Puff Daddy Day with the baby well things.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey, you come over here and do things for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, how is it?
[SPEAKER_03]: How is it?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just like, let me break it down.
[SPEAKER_03]: Puppy's right with you when you bring the baby oil and you set up the room, you way you need it, and you can't run.
[SPEAKER_03]: Run, let me finish.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me finish.
[SPEAKER_03]: You asked to question, let me finish.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where does this do set her up in a house?
[SPEAKER_03]: Guard, he got his own little freak off.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where every, whenever he wants, how every once.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why she loves you like she's not in love with this dude.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, tell me how it's different.
[SPEAKER_03]: You asked your house in the same.
[SPEAKER_03]: How that was a different.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is man who has control over the whole situation to sexually exploit this woman whenever however he wants.
[SPEAKER_03]: And as long as he keeps her free and she does what he wants him to do that everything's cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: That how's that any different?
[SPEAKER_03]: How is it different?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's similar to the puffed freak offs.
[SPEAKER_03]: He basically had his old freak offs for, I don't think that he didn't have baby oil and he's not a record producer.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he set up his old freak offs.
[SPEAKER_03]: He basically had freak offs.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my point is I don't think the two are mutually exclusive where he had his freak off and he had it on a control and there was a part of him and a sick and twisted way, loved her.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say I could go with the admiration, but when we start throwing, when we start throwing love around, I don't know that that, that gets big and mushy and whatever, I definitely guess you have.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I'm just, no, I'm just saying,
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to you and I would have to agree and everybody listen to this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, this is a definition of love and this is what it means because right now it doesn't sound like you and I'm the same page of what love means I can get with you so we don't go on about getting off an attention about what love is
[SPEAKER_03]: is, you know, I do think he was inspired, I don't want Google definition of love.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want AI's version of love.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what you got.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why not?
[SPEAKER_03]: What I'm just saying is that because the point I'm trying to make is I could, you brought the word admiration, and I could totally see that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where he sees this woman who's his first impressionist of what was in the situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is in factuation love?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but they're all kinds of love, I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, and to me, I saw a lot of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw a lot of the superficial elements of a romantic relationship that he embraced, and also admiration.
[SPEAKER_03]: He saw her as a fierce warrior, which I think attracted him, and even that just out of the whole other layer of him being sprung on her.
[SPEAKER_03]: But again, I kind of felt like, I kind of felt like, okay, here's his dude who's getting his freak off.
[SPEAKER_03]: As long as he did, what he wanted, he could keep out of jail and he helped make his career.
[SPEAKER_03]: He kept getting people that she was riding on.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, you know, so the main one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So why did he bring, why did he bring your flowers?
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, if flowers is the one thing, because I can tell you I don't know why, but I can see Oh, here's some bullshit that she's going to like.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm gonna win over with some bullshit flowers.
[SPEAKER_03]: It could have been that simple.
[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know because the story doesn't delve into these things that deeply.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when you ask the question, why do you bring your flowers?
[SPEAKER_03]: If that's a traditional bullshit thing, you know, it could have been a boxy candy.
[SPEAKER_03]: It could have been.
[SPEAKER_03]: or zero argument that flowers are the the manifestation of this huge passionate love.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think some I did deep I totally disagree.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a formal.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's because they didn't know lemon.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's still the sexualized that I wouldn't like this bullshit.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll bring you some roses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having a better suggestion, she's the kind of person who is in the flowers.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think flowers are university.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a quite a it's a question of coding and decoding, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: What did
[SPEAKER_00]: what did Anderson code into the flowers was it uh... dumps his boy uh... oh what do i do uh... when i show up at all this door i and he's in our flower so i bring flowers right yeah and then and then you combine it with the look on his face when he reads the note you know my pussy don't pop up for right right he he is he had a look at her frustration that was beyond
[SPEAKER_00]: just, oh, not being able to get his freak on.
[SPEAKER_00]: But here this is where it's like when a dude brings flowers to a call girl or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he knows in his head.
[SPEAKER_00]: He knows in his head that this is just a transactional thing, but there's a part of him that genuinely cares for her, like Sir.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's that fantasy element.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe she likes me more than her other clients.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think there was that aspect of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there is an aspect of affection that he had for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: that made her that made him bring flowers because if it really was just a power thing to get his freak out he would just get in the door and but he wouldn't bring flowers he'd be like I'm here for my freak off let's get it on but then he turns right around the batter and ramp and batter ramps it all I mean come on because he's mad because he's mad because he's mad because he's mad I totally get it I do so what was I said he's a
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, he's a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you're a virgin, you
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're back from a little technical malfunction.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was getting live really back here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I thought I was coming up with a new podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: A little bit different.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're getting you prep.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the stage.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think I don't have no idea where we were.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were talking about the road.
[SPEAKER_03]: We were in the whole, we were winding down on the whole idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's some love for Perfidia.
[SPEAKER_03]: That.
[SPEAKER_03]: And look it up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Go there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because he's so twisted anyways.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's just like, you know, sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's just, you know, a serial killer have a person.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there could be this weird twist to love.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting echo, I don't know, Ron, is that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you have headphones?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but I'm hearing some maybe tens of echo.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it me?
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, now you don't know back of me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think wouldn't do have anything that you could any cans you could put on?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and switch your audio output.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I have that echo cancellation off, and then it might be me.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I know where I think we're good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I don't hear anybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, another little technical quirk.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's pick it back up.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, you know, I, so I can go there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just, I don't, I don't want to let, I don't want to let, I just.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just want to make sure that we're not letting him off the hook for being crazy, lustful, manipulative, sexually assaulting habitual, sexual rapists.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because that's there too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure, rapists can have love.
[SPEAKER_03]: A rapist will go there in a weird, twisted, crazy way.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's, you know, how does it feel about being, you know, the guilt of what if what if I could have been there for my daughter, even though
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think this is where he's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: because there's this thing that he wants as a white supremacist, but there's a thing that his heart wants, which is to have a relationship and be a father.
[SPEAKER_02]: He can still have those feelings at the same time of being a sociopath in power and control.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, what you don't lie about.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a stain on his history, and I think that he's got to get rid of this problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a problem that's preventing me,
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting really this place this boils up because he's trying to get in his the Christmas picture club right there were years where this guy is so adept at hunting people down and doing things that
[SPEAKER_03]: There could have been years where he went out and sought to love his daughter in nurturing and became a force in her life.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It comes about because he's like, uh oh, they're digging into my history.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's something I'm going to see.
[SPEAKER_03]: Some niggas pop up in the tree and like, oh, I got to get out of here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, uh, uh, I got to get, I got to take care of this.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's, that's what is out at the heart of the story.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, you know, there's, to me, no evidence.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the best forling.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, this is a stain on him.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I write let me I wrote down something that I think my the interesting thing too is is that he is One of the characters who gets what he wants even though he gets killed at the end He gets his corner office and for a moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has Hey, I got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Got the brass ring.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know He dies.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes Do you think that gas exactly do you think the gas involvement just put him asleep?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he might have just put him to sleep because when they show him in the burner, he's still kind of sitting up like it was weird that he was upright because I laid him in there, but then when we look at it He's sitting up and I, but they come in in pretty heavy duties.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I was so so yeah, well, they might not want him to pass out.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's either
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: How many bodies?
[SPEAKER_02]: How many little kill accounts?
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you guys were you?
[SPEAKER_02]: I felt that the final confrontation was a little bit of a false set up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, how did it actually all come to be visually?
[SPEAKER_02]: It was beautiful and dramatically.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was super intense.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there was just a couple of plot pieces that were missing for me for the fact that who's the guy that they sent out to kill him and then having the confrontation.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got lost because I was thought it was a Senator guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then because they looked on a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I got confused my way.
[SPEAKER_03]: We said, oh, what people look like.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, David's confitting just fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yogy as charged.
[SPEAKER_03]: But no, when I saw him, I was like, that is true Dave, you're kind of like, when I saw him like, is this the same cat, but it was just like
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw I got a little confused there.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why I want to go back and watch it again because in the end being it got me a little, I didn't know who was, I just got kind of lost in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he was a separate assassin that they sent out.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was one of the dudes that was there, but he was separate.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got confused too, so, you know, and I think at one point they were both in the same scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: If I'm not mistaken, or, yeah, I think it's a guy who walked through the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: In the in the sports car, the blue sports cars, hey, how you doing and he goes down and meets with the Christmas people and they say, well, what do we need to do about lock job, you know, but how does he know about willa and how does he chase her yeah, how does he find her in the middle of the desert and I don't think I thought I thought my thought.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, well, he knows about willa because he's.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he really is trying to cover his stain, you know, he's trying to race things so that he can get into the Christmas of venture club and this guy is vetting him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's the victim.
[SPEAKER_03]: They know about Willa.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they've laid it up because they told him when he went there.
[SPEAKER_03]: When he went to the venture club, they tell him, hey, we're hearing rumors that Lockjaw has illegitimate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if that's true, that's true.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he knows, okay, that's what's in the wind now.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, okay, we got locked up.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's doing these weird things and act really crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And turning a whole town upside down, why is he doing this?
[SPEAKER_03]: And he goes out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think it was a question for me, so that he was on the same road chasing her when he was.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, listen, there's a lot of plock on me, because one of the biggest things that brought me out was like, oh, this is how convenient that pat just happens to fall on the lap of the one guy who can get him out of jail, out of federal touch in the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really, it's that easy.
[SPEAKER_03]: He said this, huh, when you accept what you say.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I'm saying, you know where he gets arrested.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know where he gets shocked.
[SPEAKER_03]: You first of all, it's like there's just big riot thing going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: And somehow Pat gets caught, which offer give?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's where he's in a back alley somewhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or then he fell.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and then he gets shocked, you know, he gets tazard.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what he meant.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm trying to hop from building to building.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like fellas.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he falls and he commits these running around.
[SPEAKER_03]: They take his taser.
[SPEAKER_03]: He gets apprehended by the feds.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the feds, we're not talking about some, we're not talking about Mayberry, a little poldunked police, the feds have him.
[SPEAKER_03]: He goes to jail.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they say, you haven't been taken medication, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And they said, what's the correct way to do that?
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the underground.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying that's hell of lucky for Pat.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where's that type of luck?
[SPEAKER_03]: This dude won the lottery.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm saying Ron, I'm saying the feds are out of him.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he is stumbling around.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not known what to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's on the run.
[SPEAKER_03]: He just happens to stumble into Sensei's thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, but it just turns out Sensei has all this whole of the leader of the nation.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's hell of a quaint, not a vignette for Pat.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we're in the story, though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Will it goes to synths?
[SPEAKER_00]: I get the impression he set that up ahead of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He knows that he knows that synths as this networking connection.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's him, does he, he seems done when he was walking through all the stuff he was like shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: He probably doesn't know the details on the details of like if his whole Harriet Tubman operation, but I think he knows that since he is a connected dude who has connections in the community.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's why Willas going to there and I don't think it's
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's going to she practices that I can I can understand that I just all I'm the point on make the what brought me out was like when he's able to obscure or to circumvent I didn't give it to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope I the fact that I just by the police like the regular police.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're locally scooped him up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then the police are rounding up all these people from the riots or whatever, he's in a cell.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has a lawyer that comes in and she tells him you weren't taking your medication.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it was a nurse.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, Ray, Ray, no, no, there's a lawyer lawyer lawyer.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because then they take him to the hospital.
[SPEAKER_03]: So not only does he get him out of the jail, but he gets to the hospital.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he goes out of back to I'm like, that's.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, that that's power briss a lot of power.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I just thought that's the real revolutionary is is here Is this a Sergio is he's on it right in this community?
[SPEAKER_03]: I just I just I didn't pick up on that that he knew all this whole underground thing and that's why he was going there for since He's helped.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it felt like he was just running down the street for his life because he was arguing with the people on the phone Like hey, you know this is this is Pat now?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know your damn code.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know the damn thing, whatever he's having this funny conversation with, the person on the phone that won't let him in.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he's running for his wife and it's the last ditch effort.
[SPEAKER_03]: He, for me, this happened to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, the last ditch effort, he runs past the census thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: So he's gonna let me in, I gotta hide.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't get the sense like, oh, I'm coming to your underground.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't get an idea to hook.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't take it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I can't take it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He knows that since he's connected, and that's why he went there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think and that's why his daughter was going there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't get.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, why should you just for me to watch it again?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because now that with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll check it out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, I mean, girls want to.
[SPEAKER_03]: Taekwondo class two and I didn't get the senses.
[SPEAKER_03]: a daughter that didn't I didn't I just felt like oh she's in the taekwondo he's teaching her martial arts so she could be better prepared for the world and whatever she might come front I got all that I the whole underground railroad thing and then he knew about it and this is the dude there no he doesn't know he knows this yeah he's the unready mayor of the town and runs everything like that I didn't get that pattern of that
[SPEAKER_03]: I, it was a world of wonder of to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was, I felt Pat was kind of like me going through.
[SPEAKER_03]: Whoa, what is it?
[SPEAKER_03]: What's going on here?
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of felt like that when he stumbled into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't,
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just felt like that kind of brought the fact that she's in purple means that she's been going there for quite some time to get to purple vote.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, yeah, and I can see Pat totally having his daughter train being a revolutionary that he is, like I need you to be able to define yourself, but she's stopping there, you know, I don't know that yeah, that's that's the point I was making.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'll check out again because I, you know, I, I totally do not get that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just ran away.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get the sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go into that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Please.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't think he knew Sergio was to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's going to be able.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he was like us going through it.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's going through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going through it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even the fact that he's looking for weapons other than just nunchucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Suggest that he knows that Sergio has more than just nunchucks.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he's, but also remember,
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm turning around looking for stuff he's on the one he's in a panic manic state, and he's frustrated He's like Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: If all he thought Sergio was was just I take a karate teacher
[SPEAKER_03]: And let's also keep a mind, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And let's still let's keep a mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's extremely high and mentions that over and over again throughout the course of this movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's not try to put Russian out like, I don't think he's going to looking for AK-47s or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a silly line for a guy that's thrown off his mind that who is on operation is in giving him the codes, the cheat codes who can go find out where the rendezvous point is.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's almost like the walking dead.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost got this obvious to come and let me in.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to get in, I got to get in, and then he gets in.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's doing what you obviously can't use and he's I let's remember he's I so it's like, you know He's looking for any and everything and he does get the weapon.
[SPEAKER_03]: He does get the We don't know why he's game.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I got a Yeah Okay, we got a we got a knowledge too that this is a funny movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very, very, very, very funny movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: And listen, I'm not going to put this word in the movie for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have, I have from with the movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying that when I saw this sequence unfold, like, that's really easy and convenient.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just felt it was kind of easier or convenient.
[SPEAKER_03]: It would have been cool, maybe if they took some of that 40 minutes in the beginning to set up a little bit more with Sergio and Pat on that, on that tail.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's where they could have used some time to, like, because to your point, Ron, if he did know that, that had been easy to set up a little bit more concretely
[SPEAKER_03]: just so like it all falls in to place.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the way I was I felt like I did enough I was still walking and the fact that he was looking specifically for guns he's talking to him like he knows who he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: He specifically goes there that he has an impression.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he thinks the sense that he knows that he knows that he knows that I think he knows that I don't think he knows that it's not affected and that's why he yes he's high, but he's not so out of it that he can't have rational conversations and as rational thought I think you know since he's connected and so okay knowing that he's connected he's looking for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: weapons other than just nunchucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: If he only thought Sergio was just a karate or take window instructor, he wouldn't, we'd look for anything other than yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let me ask you this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me, do you think that do you think that he went specifically to the synthase
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, because to me, the way I felt like he got off the phone because there was a riot happening and he was running down the street and he was oh my god.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh good.
[SPEAKER_03]: The sense he's here's a dojo dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll dip in here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think at the sense that he's I'm going from my I'm that point A and my point B is to go to the dojo.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he stumbled upon it in his frantic
[SPEAKER_03]: The thing was to get away from the police.
[SPEAKER_00]: He stumbled at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he remembers that's for just.
[SPEAKER_03]: And okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, but I think that has a big bearing on how connected he thinks Sergio is because it to me is like he just stumbled on something like the walking dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean, I'm not there's a, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm
[SPEAKER_02]: with having these larger than life more than real characters and characterizations.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't say that I have seen all of his movies I'm catching up a little bit as shocked at how few movies I had seen.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so then I went on a little bender.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was sick a couple of days ago, so I watched
[SPEAKER_02]: Phantom Thread, the Master, and there will be blood back to back.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I recommend that people do not do that because it'll bend your head.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, yeah, super powerful, man, who are controlling their world.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he does Anderson, I haven't seen licorice pizza.
[SPEAKER_02]: or I have seen, what is it, boogie nights.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he pushes against what is, he pushes into the, just on the borderline of fantastical in some of this stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think bigger than life.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So having since like early nights is really fun too and, you know, and set tear going so it's like, you have, but then there will be blood, even though it's larger than life, everything felt like I was never brought out of that movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, this is convenient, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: How easy it was, you know, it just is like this revolutionary that
[SPEAKER_03]: It's almost like I fell into the lap of the one person who can really help me get out of the situation.
[SPEAKER_03]: What's the fun again to your point day, which I think is very important.
[SPEAKER_03]: We gotta keep in mind is like, I think this is supposed to be, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a lean towards a satirical and again, the movie theater has started and it's a search of folks who were not acting or at any point.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was like, you know, ending with a lock jaw going down the shoot, that's not realistic as well, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, there's a, you mean in the, in the garbage shoot, they're not going to put them in the garbage.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you know, you put them in a laundry basket or a mail bin or something like that, but to put them in the window.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I kind of bought that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I bought it.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, no, that's that that just seemed cry.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's a play again.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's where it starts lean into.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully, leaning into the satirical.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hopefully, there's not organizations that do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where it's always on a white racist prison organization that has a corn office that burns people.
[SPEAKER_03]: It fries people up when they don't cut the mustard, but I'm just saying that to me, I kind of,
[SPEAKER_03]: with what we saw where, you know, the guy in the blue car, the hitman pulls up, and we go into this nice little Suburbi and home, then he goes downstairs.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's this calcane of all the ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's our tune.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what is this, you know, and we get into this world like how deeply entrenched this white supremacist organization is,
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's what I'm saying is, is that there's this borderline hyper realism or magic, almost magical realism element to it like, whoa, this is a huge underground covert city that they have underneath the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the challenge comes when you have something like that, but then there's moments with Willa where you're really worried for her and it is dangerous or whatnot and almost it goes from silly to being really dark, the back to silly again.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the tone
[SPEAKER_03]: messes with people's audience reception.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: For me, that's what it did because it was like, there are things that I took to heart in the story that, oh, this is, you know, that he's treating portraying this
[SPEAKER_03]: in earnest, and then other times where it kind of gets, it's particularly a pat or Bob, it gets, you can get very smart sticky and, would it take a, you've got a food truck and he's calling on, you know, and that it gets really funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then he's calling off the roof.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a letter, you know, he falls for the feet and bounce it off the ground.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then when he gets, then when he gets tays, it gets to funny town, but then before that, it's like, oh,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we see Sean Penn is crazy.
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of jaws, you know, this threat, this ministering threat that's coming after him, the Darth Vader coming in to, you know, get them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they're time to get, oh, he, he get really tense about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now the time, it falls back into the slapstick and silly.
[SPEAKER_03]: So anyway, we're, we're beaten at horse, but, uh, what do you guys, you think we should have a talk here a little bit?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, our 20.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would just want to say because I think it's also easy with a lot of this discussion I've seen around this film tonight.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give it it to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've found it interesting the F.D.
[SPEAKER_03]: scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was I really enjoyed the film, but then he made this 30 minute thing ripping it apart.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then, you know, everybody else has so engaged in ripping apart what they didn't like about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say that it's still a fun ride.
[SPEAKER_03]: I had a good, you know, I had a fun time watching it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I can forgive certain things.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't know I wasn't as
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think many feel he exploited the, he didn't, I, I, I, what's the word that broke you?
[SPEAKER_03]: She said she was, she was, uh,
[SPEAKER_03]: frustrated or irritated, the way that he had, it seemed like he also, it came out the week that was in the South of Chicago died or passed away.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like, you know, she was a revolutionary that was framed for shooting a cop that turned out she didn't do, but her, you know, she got broke out of prison.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it went away, it's gone to Cuba and lived the rest of her life in Cuba where she died.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are a lot of parallels in this movie to hurt her.
[SPEAKER_03]: And one of the points to make up is that only if you had done his research, because she has a book out that he could have read about real revolutionaries, or what black women revolutionaries are really like.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's the one that mentions a thing about love.
[SPEAKER_03]: And respect in how that's different from other people just being anarchist.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we're going to see the whole thing burn, and we're going to throw ourselves to the police and get killed.
[SPEAKER_03]: She is in the branch of Black Panther Party
[SPEAKER_03]: Making sure the kids had, you know, school lunch.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's the type of, and so I think that's the pushback that he's getting, you know, this film is getting from folks because it's like, we finally get a story that has a black,
[SPEAKER_03]: revolutionary female in a lead role and they and they felt like you might go with one simplified exact and they kind of dropped the ball on on presenting you know we get this one shot and here you go and you make a mockery up there you walk on what would it would my man say you would you walk wash it yeah he won't wash you won't wash basically the black feminist you'll revolutionary right
[SPEAKER_02]: And all that said, I think it goes back to what Ron said out at the beginning, which is if we're having this, but if this movie is generating this much heat and conversation and analysis and deep diving and debating, then it's touched a nerve, you know, if you're missing that touch an urban in the bad way of that word, but the fact that it's getting a response.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think I agree with JD, I think in these conversations about the things where you can criticize the movie, it's easy to forget that it is a great piece of art, it is highly entertaining and it's something that I think it's going to be discussed in film schools, for years, lots of nuance conversations about the fact that you can have people
[SPEAKER_00]: See the same film when come I was so like two completely different analyses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we haven't even like gotten into the conversation about Bob or Willa or this division You know shooting all on film
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, the only other doubt add is the cinematography.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was great.
[SPEAKER_03]: When they were doing the chasing and we kept going up and down over those hills.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was done so well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because we live out here in Santa Clarita, when we go to Palmdale or out to spare, whatever, we go through those heels like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, and it was a perfect setup for what happens.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, when when she stops the car and just leaves it in the middle of the road, because she knows,
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was brilliant, but the way that we're able to orchestrate the piece of a target with that, I thought was great.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a chance to actually see it in this division, one of the four theaters in the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: that has a nice not too far from me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I started my wife.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually her home borough in the Boston neighborhood.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, like, we could go.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, oh, yeah, I know that's in my way.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like, that's not a little bit that you see box.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, right, the agencies are deserves deserves a big screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to talk, I'm, I made show up on Dungeons and do rags at some point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, your wife sees it.
[SPEAKER_02]: She wants to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Give me a holler and, and yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could, I feel like we could just keep kind of kicking this one around for a while because more things are going to come to light.
[SPEAKER_03]: Which, you know, back to Iran's one, that makes for a great, you know, and your point, I mean, like this is the gift that keeps on giving you a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Peel back and that's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a gift for podcasters.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll be curious to see the type of feedback you get this time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, because this is a JD, I'll be talking.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll buy you this question.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cool, guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I look forward to tomorrow talk.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for having us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's good fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: That pleasure.
[SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't
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[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for listening.