[SPEAKER_03]: Mach will not be a killer to open the door We didn't bet they'd deter it for they'd go And wave you as he drives a V iron ball It's really sad that it means he's dead to y'all It's a wonderful, microchipses house I proclaim his house, talk to us out with us Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on All the darkness, light puff through us Sabra hummus, as far as us
[SPEAKER_06]: Hello everybody and welcome to bad has barra the world's most moral podcast That's right.
[SPEAKER_06]: We are here and that is producer Adam all three of us together That means it's a special episode.
[SPEAKER_06]: It is a male bag episode of Bad has barra.
[SPEAKER_06]: My name is Matt Leibald be your world's most moral co-host for this podcast I'm Daniel Mattay second most moral co-host in the world
[SPEAKER_09]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: More than some ways hosting because you're going to be throwing you're going to be pitching I'm trying catching we're going to be catching you'll be pitching Let's use different words.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll be talking baseball Adam you'll be American pastime.
[SPEAKER_06]: You got something wrong with American pastime We'll bottom for you and you talk yeah
[SPEAKER_06]: The shoutouts producer Adam Levin who's here five stars on a review on all of the podcast apps subscribe to us if you haven't already Nothing should get you hidden that subscribe button faster than in an episode full of male bag questions Clearly will be one of our most popular episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well look there look, no, but there's your joking, but I am it's deadly serious
[SPEAKER_02]: It is done.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because this folks is part two of our mailback episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're coming in mid-way.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, you're not going to know what's going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's going to be difficult to catch up, but you know, pay attention.
[SPEAKER_02]: Stay on your toes.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll, you'll get there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you don't want to be left behind, next time, if you want to hear part one of the mailback episode and not have to join midway through like some schmuck, go to patreon.com slash bat has barra.
[SPEAKER_02]: Get all the damn episodes.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_06]: You get all of them.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, there was some good ones too.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: There were great questions in the first half.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm honestly like, I don't think this second half is going to, you know, reach even close to the level.
[SPEAKER_02]: How could it?
[SPEAKER_06]: Quality quality questions.
[SPEAKER_06]: So if you don't want to miss out on that, also you don't want to miss out on a weekly bonus episode of this podcast.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, then join.
[SPEAKER_06]: Page on.com.
[SPEAKER_06]: Slash, bad advice.
[SPEAKER_02]: What did we talk about?
[SPEAKER_02]: We talked about the cornbrothers.
[SPEAKER_02]: We talked about Jewish.
[SPEAKER_02]: Subreddit R slash Jewish.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, yeah, we talked about Scott play list.
[SPEAKER_06]: Scott play list.
[SPEAKER_06]: We talked about liberal Zionism.
[SPEAKER_06]: We talked about techniques for, you know, talking to family members or friends.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we talked about all sorts of shit.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't remember half of it, but it was sick.
[SPEAKER_06]: So you should listen to that episode, but since you're here, we might as well fill up your piggy trough with some delicious sloppy seconds.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's right, you're getting sloppy seconds.
[SPEAKER_06]: Today's episode is brought to you by Bridge of Solidarity.
[SPEAKER_06]: Bridge of Solidarity is an anti-capitalist mutual aid organization founded in Gaza by Yazan and Al Mal.
[SPEAKER_06]: My loss is to see why can't I ever read that word correctly in Communus.
[SPEAKER_06]: All the money goes directly to people in need of support.
[SPEAKER_06]: These efforts are focused on the most marginalized people in Gaza at risk of dying.
[SPEAKER_06]: People that phones who can't speak English who can't post on social media don't have wealthy relatives and may not even have any living relatives.
[SPEAKER_06]: So these
[SPEAKER_06]: And we could not recommend this more highly.
[SPEAKER_06]: So please, if you have any money, the first mailbag episode is not that good.
[SPEAKER_06]: So please take that money and go to bit.ly slash bridge of solidarity and don't age now.
[SPEAKER_06]: Daniel, it would be Bad Hasbara without hearing about spins.
[SPEAKER_06]: What is it, the spin?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this just arrived today,
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just so incredibly excited about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's my first time doing a box set on this episode on this show.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a big thick ass box set called Johnny's Jazz.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it's from Johnny's initials website directed to order directly.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a picture of her with her behind cock and Wayne Shorter and it's a eight record.
[SPEAKER_02]: box set of taken from a cross to career of song and she picked them herself.
[SPEAKER_02]: So to spanning the songs that track the jazz influence in her music and it goes all the way from her folkie era all the way through the
[SPEAKER_02]: newport folk festival performance she did with Brandi Carlyle and people of both sides now last year or this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw one CBC interviewer or segment talking about how this box set, Chronicles, Joni Mitchell's controversial jazz phase and that's just total
[SPEAKER_02]: Thread through her entire career, which is got more and more pronounced as the 70s war on and she was working with Jacob Restorius and Charles Mingus and her behankock and we ensured her and all that But it was always there and it's not controversial.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Essential so this is beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a cover of Marvin Gaze troubleman troubleman that she does Which is amazing some great unreleased demos from the early 80s, but it's and it's got some stuff on it
[SPEAKER_02]: that previously just wasn't available on record from her late 90s.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, late 80s early 90s albums that are some of my favorites.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what's been in my house today.
[SPEAKER_06]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I love me some journey by as that's my journey, but Mitchell is good.
[SPEAKER_02]: You love you love Joni Holloway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's be true.
[SPEAKER_06]: Let's be true.
[SPEAKER_06]: So that's what's spinning.
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course actually Christina Hendrix liked a real I was in for for Oxfam Canada.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I said this
[SPEAKER_02]: Canadian, nobody's were recruited by Oxfam to do one of these, you know, videos where we all read a script and they cut it together and all that kind of stuff telling Canada's stop arming is railing on that stuff.
[SPEAKER_06]: If she liked it, and you showed it to me, I assume my next, what I texted you back with was ask her to be a guest on this show.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think your words were
[SPEAKER_06]: I shouldn't have done it, and you shouldn't have revealed it, but, you know, let's be honest.
[SPEAKER_06]: And that Christina Hendrix, the perfect woman does exist, she's the best, and also just a fantastic actress.
[SPEAKER_06]: She's really the star of Mad Men in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_06]: Outside of you know done draper.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think done draper overrated.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm all about boobies boobies boobies boobies long legs red hair hold me your my mom
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, anyways, so that's what's on been serious topic of the issue.
[SPEAKER_06]: The mail bag.
[SPEAKER_06]: Let's talk about it.
[SPEAKER_06]: What are we got?
[SPEAKER_06]: Adam is going to be a quarterback against through this.
[SPEAKER_06]: So you go ahead.
[SPEAKER_09]: All right, to reiterate from from the Patreon app, just the messages have been edited lightly for brevity messages that have been omitted are.
[SPEAKER_09]: request for a specific as to appear request for topics that have been covered since the message came uh... statements messages that ask us to read or listen to something else and comment on it uh... so we begin with scott did you say that because of exams like scott yes just because you like scott so much like i like that his name sound like my favorite genre
[SPEAKER_09]: Exactly, and that's of course bit dot l y, scats, scasbara, that is my scob playlist for the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, what's the scank?
[SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[SPEAKER_09]: First time longtime week one, since our current administration clearly revels in Nazi rhetoric and tactics, I see a possibility of the furthest right cohorts being able to put the blame for our upcoming economic collapse at the feet of the genocide being carried out by Israel.
[SPEAKER_09]: The chance for an American crystal-locked isn't outside the realm of reality, especially if sorrows can be inserted even more into the dialogue.
[SPEAKER_09]: How do you guys think the state of American Judaism will hold up with its already-strained connections?
[SPEAKER_06]: That is a good question, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about the threat of serious anti-Semitic reprisals.
[SPEAKER_02]: by the state against Jews here for what Israel has done.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, by the state or not, I think is either one is valid, I think, you know, in terms of by the state, I don't have any short-term serious concerns just because of the nature of the, you know, the button paid for nature of the state in the way in which the American like political.
[SPEAKER_06]: class and media classes so in its own Zionist bubble that it's that yeah I don't I don't necessarily see them falling into a I don't know I don't I see I'm going down that rabbi hole
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't see them going down that rabbi hole in the short term for sure.
[SPEAKER_09]: But rabbi hole is that great in the best side that the guys are coming out.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, that rabbi hole is what we've all said.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_10]: A very Jefferson airplane song, white rabbi.
[SPEAKER_06]: one shill or makes you larger, um, okay.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, but in terms of, you know, this question of, like, the furthest right cohorts putting the blame on the upcoming economic collapse of the United States on Israel.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, yeah, of course, of they're going to do that, um, you know, that is,
[SPEAKER_06]: Not outside the realm of possibility.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it is kind of in the nature of the for the right cohort of the chance for an American crystal night.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, honestly, like I I truly like one of the reasons that this podcast was created.
[SPEAKER_06]: was seeing the American Jewish community and our Jewish institutions being so wrapped up in their Zionism and living in their own bubbles.
[SPEAKER_06]: you know, so much that they didn't understand that all of their alliances in the United States with the right were going to end up, you know, I don't know, coming back around and
[SPEAKER_06]: you know, stabbing them in the back.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's like they're shooting themselves in the foot with it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't see it outside of the realm of possibility at all.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, obviously, for the last two years there have been all of these claims of anti-Semitic incidents in which it is, you know, that have been completely made up or have been clearly politically motivated incidents of people protesting
[SPEAKER_06]: to a degree that it cheapens what anti-semitism actually is and it cheapened the smear and the accusation of it.
[SPEAKER_06]: So the point where, yes, I think that people are going to, you're going to see more and more attacks, it is not for front and my mind.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's kind of the way I look at it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I do think it's going to happen and
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, I'm like, oh, the Jews you brought it upon yourself, but I will say our institutions are very much bringing it upon themselves, our institutions are being stupid, short-sighted, genocidal and fucking cowardly in a lot of different ways.
[SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I am, I am.
[SPEAKER_06]: I do see our institutions is leading us down this particular path and it is, again, not the first thing I think about when I think about this stuff, you know, I think about a genocide that's happening and yeah, that's not speculative at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, we haven't talked about the attack in Manchester,
[SPEAKER_02]: I haven't read enough about it, but that strikes me as it could plausibly be a stochastic case of reprisal against Jews for what Israel is doing, which would be condemnable as it already is horrific.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when we're using an analogy, just like Crystal Knox, I think we have to be very careful.
[SPEAKER_06]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because Crystal Knox was a state
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Project.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a state endorsed night of terror widespread against Jewish businesses and homes all over the place and it was a calculated tactic and it was part of a program that a political party which rose to power was enacting and it was a part of a continuous trajectory.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not see any possibility for that in the United States.
[SPEAKER_02]: I see no
[SPEAKER_02]: comparison.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, I think it's tempting if we think about, oh, some Jewish businesses were attacked and burned and windows were smashed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can imagine some windows being smashed in a JCC or a synagogue here, but I cannot simply cannot imagine it being egged on or supported by anyone with any kind of power.
[SPEAKER_02]: And frankly, that includes like,
[SPEAKER_02]: any major trench of the right-wing potto sphere.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Christian Zionists have too much power in this country, and you just simply wouldn't be able to sell that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't see any evidence that that's what things are building to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Deep resentments building in many pockets of the country against
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're Jews are associated right there only with the elite with Hollywood, all of that, that blowing back in various ways, ignorance about Jews spreading yes, but until such time as we have a genuine anti Israel force on the right rising to power and trying to use that for a political project.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't see it happening and.
[SPEAKER_02]: the trend I'm seeing is that the field here is real, even among the most chuddy, Pepe is fucking administration we've ever had, doesn't speak very affirmatively about that being the future that we're entering.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, I think I'm more pessimistic about it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think you're right in the short term.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think of the long term anything as possible.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think based on the...
[SPEAKER_06]: history of the way in which anti-Semitism has been utilized in the past, you know, by, you know, whether it's the fucking ZAR or, you know, any European institutions.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess that the question is how are people going to respond to the coming economic collapse?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then I'm trying, then I have to place myself in a world that we're not currently living in.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I, you know, for me, I see it as like not at all outside of the realm of possibility that the blowback from this is going to, uh, yeah, um, be, uh, I don't know, manifested by, uh, uh,
[SPEAKER_06]: actual anti-Semitic hate crimes happening.
[SPEAKER_06]: And so, whether it's the, you know, the Crystal Knight comparison is after not, I mean, like, yeah, it's, I don't, again, I don't see that happening on a state level or systemic level.
[SPEAKER_06]: In the United States, in the short term, I don't put anything outside of the room of possibility.
[SPEAKER_06]: when it comes to the future of this country, especially once we do undergo a serious economic catastrophe, which I also see is very possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I want to know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why in his long and illustrious career has Billy Crystal not put out a special called Billy Crystal Not.
[SPEAKER_06]: you know, that's a great question.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's unknowable.
[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe it's because the political commentator in Zionist Bill Crystal already did that.
[SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, I mean, if you look at anti-Semitism, you know, more historically, um,
[SPEAKER_06]: and sort of holistically and look at patterns of flare-ups, not so much in the United States, but in Europe and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, you could make the case for the blowback possibly, you know, being something that you would describe as a pogrom or whatnot.
[SPEAKER_06]: And it is something, it's like, I'm not going to pretend like I'm sitting here, not what, what, I want to know.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_06]: What's... Sorry.
[SPEAKER_10]: Imagine a British claymation series called Wallace and Bugromet.
[SPEAKER_10]: I'm still good at it.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_06]: Still good at it.
[SPEAKER_10]: I... Back to get it for walkies, Bugromet and get some juice.
[SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, we just... We're going to get a group of course acts together.
[SPEAKER_06]: And we're going to go in right and right in the village here.
[SPEAKER_10]: You know what the bees eat?
[SPEAKER_10]: Not an eye love bedded in a nice piece of cheese with a piece of meat at the same time to upset the coaches.
[SPEAKER_10]: Is that right, Pagromat?
[SPEAKER_09]: Pagromat.
[SPEAKER_09]: All right, so.
[SPEAKER_09]: An anonymous listener wants to needle some Zionists over a pin.
[SPEAKER_09]: Last year I wore a free Palestine pin while dropping my kid off at school and some Zionist parents complained to the school.
[SPEAKER_09]: The school sent on a message to all parents asking us to refrain from any political messages on shirts or badges during drop-off and pick-up.
[SPEAKER_09]: My question is, what can I wear that is subtle enough to drive the Zionists insane and still get away with it?
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean the the big one has been water melon stuff.
[SPEAKER_06]: I've seen a lot of you know people using the watermelon is sort of a stand in avatar for free palestine or for solidarity with palestine.
[SPEAKER_09]: I guess you could you could wear a shirt to see an action shirt.
[SPEAKER_02]: Plastion action shirt in the same in the same spirit you could maybe wear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Stuffed up ahead, a picture of a pig butt, which is a synonym for a Hamass.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, Hamass, I like it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I love I heart.
[SPEAKER_06]: I heart Hamass and then a pig butt for a pork butt.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah, I was thinking a picture of a castle and then a picture of a fork with an arrow to just one of the little points.
[SPEAKER_09]: So it's Palestine.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh man, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I like it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Listen, there's a power in puns folks.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's power in puns.
[SPEAKER_06]: So yeah, I mean, certainly, um, you're looking at some of, I mean, shit.
[SPEAKER_06]: If you really want to go for it, uh, shirt with an upside down red triangle, I mean, fucking, you see what happens.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, man.
[SPEAKER_06]: like can they, you know, reasonably argue that that is specifically a Hamas shirt?
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think you could, uh, I think you could probably get away with it.
[SPEAKER_06]: And in some circles.
[SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: All right, next we have a voicemail.
[SPEAKER_09]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, um, just one of the ask when you guys are planning on doing your review of don't mess with those, uh, literally the other reason I'm not currently subscribed to
[SPEAKER_06]: this is as reasons go yes this is a great question um in terms of yeah not subscribing because you're waiting for this episode uh we hear you and we see you uh and you you your voice matters um we will do this i promise you uh i will bring your money
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we've been promising, I think, don't mess with the Zohan, the Adam Sandler movie about a most odd agent who just wants to be a hairstylist in New York.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, we need to do a badass bar movie episode about that and do a,
[SPEAKER_06]: and analysis of it.
[SPEAKER_06]: So far we've only done Golda.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we had at one point we had big ideas that we were going to do a movie episode every month or something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: We talked about doing more frequently and I wasn't even there for the Golda episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I weren't there for it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was back in, I don't know when it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember listening to that episode on a road trip I was on and that's when I had to endure all of your fake medical reports about my anus.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what convinced me to attend, have better attendance.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you have a better attendance than me now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bad for my rectal health, yes.
[SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, we will do that.
[SPEAKER_06]: And we will have, you know, friend of the pod and movie expert, Vince Bancini back on to talk about some more.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's really propaganda movies and stuff.
[SPEAKER_06]: And yeah, we'll do it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I promise you.
[SPEAKER_06]: Maybe we can get my mdani on and call the episode don't mess with the zoron dude I mean listen if he wants to do our special patron only movie episode Well he is welcome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please come on do it look man We we we see you at the Yomki poor service clapping along And you know, but if you really want to prove your fucking bona fides exactly
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's Jews with the mainstream Jewish community.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_06]: You can't hide behind, you know, uh, what's his name, uh, Bradley and her right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: How'd you know?
[SPEAKER_06]: That's exactly what's talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can't buy hide behind Bradley and her this whole time because that's how you, that's who you could plausibly say he's hiding behind.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they're genuinely aligned, but
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, shout out to him, by the way, did you hear him recently?
[SPEAKER_06]: I think it was, it could have been, it was a UN capoor services.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, I think it was UN capoor services.
[SPEAKER_06]: And he was, it was great.
[SPEAKER_02]: I need to listen to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw them both speak at the J. Fredge.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Awards a few weeks ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: And to be quite frank, I prefer Atlanta speech to Zarrans.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I really like Badlander a lot.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I was really impressed with him.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, at the Young Cooper Services, I just, like, he was brutally honest about, you know, he didn't go to the level of unforgivable, but he was very blatant.
[SPEAKER_06]: He was very blunt about.
[SPEAKER_06]: the Jewish communities need for forgiveness for entering a quote, war of revenge and then doing a complicity and a genocide.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was like, bars.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I don't know if lander has fully written out the Zionism yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: And on his own terms, I don't really care.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, him speaking from where he's speaking from, with the level of sincerity and and
[SPEAKER_02]: moral outrage that he is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's really really valuable, especially in the ways that he's running interference for Zaron while people are trying to take him down in bad faith.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, forever, respect for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that cold bear appearance.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, in terms of like political allyship.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, there's
[SPEAKER_06]: I was incredibly cynical about it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think early on just because I didn't know his politics and I wasn't exactly sure what the plan was.
[SPEAKER_06]: But the more I heard him speak, I mean, I just kind of, in general, assume any politician is going to be a snake and I've been really kind of fucking impressed with him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, any snake or a snake or a shnook?
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, that's your answer to your question about when you can join us.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, let's try to cover the Adam Sandler movie.
[SPEAKER_06]: We will get to it soon as well as a bunch of other movies that I think we definitely need to talk about.
[SPEAKER_09]: Alright, beven with a music question.
[SPEAKER_09]: I do a count of the ohmar the days from Passover to Shavuot with songs.
[SPEAKER_09]: However, since my friend and I decided that a song like 1950 doesn't count for 19 because it's 1,950.
[SPEAKER_09]: I currently have to, I currently have to do a hey 19 by
[SPEAKER_09]: Okay Anthony fans channel you reveal your real yeah, you don't need to have been Sure pevin Do you have any suggestions for a song with 19 in the title?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: The song, hey 19 by Steely Dan is a fantastic song with 19 in the title.
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you smoking?
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey 19 is a fantastic song and I don't know why you would think it's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you want to get an insight into why Steely Dan's lyrics are an essential piece.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Steal it in and hey 19 is one of their cheesier sounding songs.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very loungy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very smooth music.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's off 1980's Goucho, which is sort of the most sanitized, almost oppressively immaculate produced albums of theirs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Short of their 2000 comeback to against nature and the subsequent album, everything must go.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, hey 19,
[SPEAKER_02]: rises to glory, and as that whole album does, on the mismatch between its clean, immaculate, sound, and its nebisi, self-hating, sad-sac, depressed,
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, 19, that's Rita Franklin.
[SPEAKER_02]: She don't remember the Queen of Soul.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hard times, but fallen Soul survivors.
[SPEAKER_02]: She thinks I'm crazy, but I'm just gold growing old.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're talking about trying to date an 19-year-old, but they can't fucking talk about anything, because this girl doesn't get his musical references.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's having a mid-life crisis, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then this sad refrain, which is supposed to sound like party time, the Queiro Gold, the Fine Columbia, and make tonight a wonderful thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a wonderful thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're sniffing coke and sip and tequila and he's miserable.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what makes Deliang great.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you want to have a fuller appreciation of how you too can enjoy the smooth misery of Stiliet and lyrics and have a deeper appreciation for how their songs actually work, go to my old YouTube channel, Lyrics To Go, which I can't believe I've never mentioned on this podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had tons of episodes, including a two-part episode about appreciating the lyrics of Stily Dan.
[SPEAKER_02]: This whole channel was me talking about lyric appreciation and really listening to the words.
[SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Donald Feng and a Walter Becker are just, they're musical theater writers in jazz, pop, compositional outfits, and I love that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't use to love that song, but I think the more you get into the personality of the character of Steve.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'd say, no, you're probably stuck with that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't think of another one with 19 in the title.
[SPEAKER_06]: Does that have to be in the title?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, I think, the, I think that's the key.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, then yeah, I don't I don't know.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think I was looking at the list on Reddit with this just to just to give them something But yeah, a lot of Paul hardcastle 19 by Paul hardcastle.
[SPEAKER_09]: It's an anti-Vietnam zone.
[SPEAKER_09]: Okay, that's a good runner-up
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but I believe there's, you know, there's probably some other ones in there.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think I saw Tegan and Sarah it was song called 19.
[SPEAKER_06]: They're the ones right is that Are those the people who did?
[SPEAKER_06]: I know that's oh, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was gonna say all the things you said All the DJ said run that you might too.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's tattoo.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's tattoo
[SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, we've answered that question.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's probably more songs for 18.
[SPEAKER_06]: I like 18 in life by sports to skid row or 17 or 16 she was on her 16.
[SPEAKER_06]: I love that song.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't agree with the message when I was 17.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 17's in there 19 not a lot of 19.
[SPEAKER_06]: Hmm
[SPEAKER_09]: All right, David writes in, I have a mental health question for you.
[SPEAKER_09]: This was sent directly to Daniela and then Daniela sent it to us.
[SPEAKER_02]: I asked him if it was okay to read on this episode and he said yes.
[SPEAKER_09]: So I have a mental health question for you.
[SPEAKER_09]: You and I are the same age and we share the same politics on Palestine and probably most issues.
[SPEAKER_09]: Your podcast is a cathartic breath of air, but the overall dark feelings are still very prominent.
[SPEAKER_09]: My question relates to anger.
[SPEAKER_09]: I have so much anger and rage, not just at Israel, but towards so many American Jewish friends and family who have failed the easiest moral test of our lifetime.
[SPEAKER_09]: We don't talk about the issue to preserve the friendships, but this makes me feel complicit in the
[SPEAKER_02]: In other words, in order to preserve the friendships you're not talking about it, correct.
[SPEAKER_09]: Thus, the feelings of alienation, loneliness, and rage.
[SPEAKER_09]: I don't mean to trauma-dump on a stranger, but this topic seems up your professional alley.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all, it's okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone trauma-dumps on me for some reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're not trauma-dumping.
[SPEAKER_02]: You actually are asking a very
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, a very vulnerable and honest question that I think is relevant for a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just listening, you know, and you're just sharing about your emotional experience and I appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think everyone listening probably does, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, what's the question at the very end of it?
[SPEAKER_02]: How does the frame it as a question?
[SPEAKER_09]: The question is effectively how to deal with it?
[SPEAKER_09]: How do you interact with these people and avoid discussing this thorny issue without feeling complicit yourself or is there a way to kind of square that circle in your head?
[SPEAKER_02]: OK, let me try, I'm going to kind of skate around
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get around the rank of this question because it's a wide spectrum question and hopefully we can make some nice patterns in the ice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Number one, your anger and rage and disgust are totally valid emotions.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are appropriate.
[SPEAKER_02]: in, you know, they certainly some degree of anger and also sorrow and grief is I think called for here and I think for many of us due to our own upbringing in this culture, especially for men, feeling sadness and sorrow and mournfulness and grief is harder than feeling anger and rage, but often underneath anger and rage there are those more tender.
[SPEAKER_02]: more vulnerable emotions that want to be felt.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we let ourselves feel that and grieve, that can actually discharge the more toxic, like anger when it stays in you, we'll kill you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sadness when it's allowed to move will actually cleanse you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think health, I mean, you're not gonna die of a heart attack from being sad about the way things are in the world, but you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: But even sadness, if you keep a bottle up, is not good for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So allow any things to move somehow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the people in your life you would like the people closest to you to be people you can express yourself with and share yourself with.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it sounds like the dilemma you're coming up against is a sort of, you know, what my dad talks about.
[SPEAKER_02]: the fundamental tension between attachment and authenticity, we want to be close to people, but we also want to be ourselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of trauma that comes from our childhoods is that we weren't allowed to do both.
[SPEAKER_02]: If we wanted to maintain the relationships with the people closest to us, we had to suppress parts of ourselves, and then that becomes just second nature and it becomes our personality.
[SPEAKER_02]: At least in grown-up, in adulthood, we get to choose our relationships, and you have some agency over who you're gonna have in your life who you're not.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you have to check in with yourself, what is the toll on me?
[SPEAKER_02]: of constantly having to, for the sake of the relationship, not talk about what really matters to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's building up a pressurized charge inside of you that might be toxic to you, that might not be good for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not your friends that are toxic to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the position of not being able to be yourself with the people that you have in your life so that you can be yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't both.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm not saying they're not but toxicity relates it's relative to Who it's affecting and it's affecting you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so ultimately and if you can't change them Then you have a you have a choice to make you may not want to have those people in your life.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would also strongly recommend if you have If you have the wherewithal
[SPEAKER_02]: to do some work on looking at the anger and the rage itself and in like a therapeutic setting.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we are not, despite what you might think, we have that has brought our not license meant to health professionals.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I would say with a trusted caregiver of some kind or in some kind of group setting, like often anger and rage, which attached themselves to world events and world injustices and genuine things that are going on in the world can be, there can be still ways inside of that rage that are coming from our own personal stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you see it all the time in activism where there is a lot to be angry about in the world,
[SPEAKER_02]: But we can sometimes add to it, and it gets kind of polluted or clouded by our own unprocessed grief, anger, rage at people who harm us in our own lives, or overidentification with victims because we ourselves were victimized.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's nothing wrong with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying it's wrong or not understandable, but I'm saying over time, if not processed and explored,
[SPEAKER_02]: can get in the way both of your personal life and your ability to be effective politically and to communicate clearly because you're protesting against things that aren't happening now, things that happen the long time ago and which stops you from being able to respond effectively to what is happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: As far as what to do with the people in your lives, we addressed a question similar to that and in the first part of this episode about how to communicate with like Libero Zionist friends,
[SPEAKER_02]: I would, yeah, without knowing more about these people in the specific year relationship, I wouldn't presume to give you any advice.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the kind of thing that I have taken walks with people about in my mental chiropractic work, if anyone's interested in that, walkwithDaniel.com, having a conversation to sort out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, what exactly is going on here?
[SPEAKER_02]: What am I angry about?
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the possibilities here?
[SPEAKER_02]: What have I tried?
[SPEAKER_02]: What haven't I tried?
[SPEAKER_02]: What assumptions am I making about them?
[SPEAKER_02]: What roles am I?
[SPEAKER_02]: playing with them that actually I don't need to play.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, maybe you're protecting them from your feelings and you don't have to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe they could handle more than you think.
[SPEAKER_02]: It all depends on the situation and what you're carrying from your own past.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's a very all over the place answer that I hope covers at least some bases that it'll be helpful.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: All right, let's do a voicemail.
[SPEAKER_06]: hello that has barra quick question do you guys have access to giving us a reading list of books about housing that would be lovely thank you for that question yeah uh thank you for that question yeah i mean i think that is a great idea i almost feel like uh kind of in the same way Adam has a Scott playlist having like a book playlist i think would also equally important
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, no, I think it would be good.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, that's what's the spine, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_06]: That is what's the spine.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, yeah, but, you know, I can just go through some of my own reading list right now, uh, just, you know, to give you guys some suggestions for stuff to read.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got two sitting here right now, but we've, and we've interviewed both their authors.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_06]: So those are two great ones perfect victims by Muhammad Al-Qaeda and then what is it being Jewish after destruction of Gaza by Peter by an art.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, never don't worry about the title.
[SPEAKER_02]: Palestine by the way, as I said to Peter, my least favorite part of this book is the title.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and what were you saying at him?
[SPEAKER_09]: I said the hundred years war on Palestine by Rashid Khalid.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yes, another guest of ours, and I mean, that's just a really, that's a really great book.
[SPEAKER_06]: I thought the message by Tana-Hasi Codes was fantastic.
[SPEAKER_06]: There is going through my list right now, just as for some by Nora Arakot.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not purposefully doing just people who have been our guests, but again, this is a great,
[SPEAKER_06]: you know, this is stuff that I've read that I really thought was great.
[SPEAKER_06]: Just as for some is incredible.
[SPEAKER_06]: It is dense and it is, you know, incredibly important in terms of understanding the way in which apartheid works in
[SPEAKER_06]: in the West Bank and in Gaza and sort of the international laws that have been, you know, that were created and then completely disregarded by the West.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a new book out that both Matt and I have, uh,
[SPEAKER_02]: received, I don't think, either of us have read it yet, called Terms of Servitude by Omar Zaza about tech industries war on Palestine that we are going to read and get to and then do an interview.
[SPEAKER_06]: And that is going to happen as soon as as soon as we read it, we of course are
[SPEAKER_06]: doing a mail bag episode because we're going to New York for these, uh, these live shows, and, uh, you know, we had to kind of put all of our focus on that, but once that's done, we should be reading that book and interviewing the author.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, there is a, um, an audio book,
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure it's also, you know, in print, but it's called the on-Palestine, and it's a basically conversation between Nome Chomsky and Elon Popeye that I think is like incredibly good for like sort of, uh, I don't know, getting kind of like a baseline understanding of the conflict in general conflict in quotes.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, and then I think cleansing of Palestine for talking Elon
[SPEAKER_02]: that's great um obviously has a great book about 10 myths about Zionism or something like that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, um and then you know if you haven't read it uh the Israel lobby is by I think
[SPEAKER_06]: It is like, you know, if you want to understand the American obsession with Israel, and critiques of American foreign policy with regards to Israel, I mean, you can't do better than the Israel lobby.
[SPEAKER_06]: And it's really funny how, you know, I don't know, maligned both of the authors
[SPEAKER_06]: and how much their careers were stymied and suffered because of it, which is something that they knew would happen and they called out in the book.
[SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, everything that they put in there is just like, if you want to understand, the Israel lobby is really the place to go.
[SPEAKER_06]: If you want to get into the nitty gritty of like politics specifically in America.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would also add to the list a graphic novel by Joe Sacco, just called Palestine, and I think it's something more recent in the same series, but, you know, just like mouse, M.A.U.S.
[SPEAKER_02]: was a standard bar mitzvah gift for kids of my generation, depicting the Nazi Holocaust through cartoons of mice and cats and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Joe Sacco doesn't incredible job rendering life in occupied Palestine through images and words of really powerful work.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I robot by Isaac Azimoff read that that's nothing to do with Israel Palestine.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's just really, it's really sick.
[SPEAKER_06]: All right, I'm going to be back with some more questions in just a minute.
[SPEAKER_09]: But first, we're going to take an ad break.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's time for ad break, everyone.
[SPEAKER_06]: So stick around, listen to these ads and we'll be right back.
[SPEAKER_06]: and we're back as bad as barra world's was moral podcast and we are taking questions from our mailbag thank you to everyone who submitted and thank you to all the you know the free you know non-paypigs or
[SPEAKER_06]: watching and you know listening to this episode because we know your regular reschedule program is not quite here it's a male bag up to so and we thank you for your patience with us and we hope you're enjoying yourself alright this question be this is this is this is this is
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is great stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is better than a regular sketch, if you ever listen to our regular shit, this is the most parasocial of all episodes.
[SPEAKER_09]: We're acknowledging their existence.
[SPEAKER_06]: We're responding.
[SPEAKER_06]: We're interacting.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: You're here.
[SPEAKER_06]: We're with you.
[SPEAKER_06]: On a delay.
[SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[SPEAKER_09]: So this question is for someone I am calling D.J.
[SPEAKER_09]: Your Bramate.
[SPEAKER_09]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_09]: So my bra, yeah, I was like an errand.
[SPEAKER_09]: What turn tables does Daniel use for every day spinning?
[SPEAKER_02]: Good question.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have two turn tables and a mic on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where is that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Shout out back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think, um, I, in the other room, I've got, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: I got it from turn table lab here in New York, and it's the TTL model of, I think, MMF is the MMF 1.5 from, I forget what the actual brand name is, but that's the model you can look at.
[SPEAKER_02]: MMF?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm more of an FM.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Port.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Port Jo.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Port Jo.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're welcome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Class T-L-P, something or other.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nothing fancy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not, see, the thing you would think that for all of my meticulous obsessive compulsive vinyl collecting and music trivia and lyrics trivia, I'd also be an audio file.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't really tell the difference between, like,
[SPEAKER_02]: A minor rate, a pair of speakers and like a fine pair of speakers, I my eyes glaze over whenever I'm taught whenever I'm reading Dex specs on this turntable or that cartridge or this stylus or whatever like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't I don't get what all the fuss is about.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I have some serviceable entry to mid-level turntables.
[SPEAKER_06]: that that's that's served me well and maybe one day I'll have someone educate me on while at why I should be spending 10 times the money on marginally better equipment but yeah the answer is there has never been my thing the answer to that is you shouldn't and if the answer that is girls love it when you tell them about it yeah that's right that's right no I always find audio files to be sort of you know what they're like they're like
[SPEAKER_06]: $1,000 HDMI cable salesman, where you're just like, I understand that you think that I'm going to be able to tell the difference between this $15 cable and a $1,000 cable, but I won't be able to.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's the same shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could go with the standard USB cable to charge your phone.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could do that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but this one's played it in gold.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was like, no, fuck off.
[SPEAKER_09]: All right, next we have Melody with a moose and goose question for Daniel.
[SPEAKER_06]: What is okay, Ian?
[SPEAKER_06]: Can we stop for one second?
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, Adam.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I also exist.
[SPEAKER_06]: We got to do this like three fucking in a row.
[SPEAKER_06]: Why am I of any?
[SPEAKER_02]: There hasn't, I don't think it's been a single.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a question for Matt.
[SPEAKER_06]: There's not that one single.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's a question.
[SPEAKER_09]: I've written angry letters back to all of these people
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I don't like questions.
[SPEAKER_06]: I am a piece of shit.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, no, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, people I guess I, you know, I'm just a chopliver.
[SPEAKER_06]: I guess I'll just go fuck myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a question from Matt from B. M. Billy F. B. M. Billy B.
[SPEAKER_09]: Big mouthbelly bass, big mouthbelly bass, big mouthbelly bass, all right, I should have, yeah, yeah, as a Canadian, what would you do if you have one of these as a Canadian questions?
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, what will he do?
[SPEAKER_06]: So ethnic, I've got to ask him, can't have the questions, all right, all right, let's find.
[SPEAKER_09]: As a Canadian, how do you wax your tooth?
[SPEAKER_09]: What would you do if you had a Zionist coworker who is a member of the Inclusion and Belonging Committee, aka DEI, and they are chosen to read out the Truth and Reconciliation Land acknowledgment in a company meeting?
[SPEAKER_09]: Also, how does Canada truly continue with the NTRC's Call to Action while the Canadian government continues to support Israel's genocide on Gaza?
[SPEAKER_09]: You know what, Matt?
[SPEAKER_09]: Why don't you answer the question about Canadian government if you
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I will answer this.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think I'll take this.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, yeah, uh, what do you do?
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, also, uh, what does it say?
[SPEAKER_06]: The truth and reconciliation land and knowledge and well, if shit, dude, you know, that's, we've all, first of all, we've all been there.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know, Daniel, do you have an actual answer to this question about, well, look at what you do with the, I can, I can feed you some context.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you'll have some insights.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, Canada truth and reconciliation has become,
[SPEAKER_02]: it's our version of you know in this house science matters and all that it's just a big virtue signal for you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: well-meaning don't hate me, urban, elite, white people, interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: It should mean something actual.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's been genuine attempts on the behalf of First Nations communities, which is what we call Indigenous Canadians, to get some truth, and to get some actual, not reconciliation, but restitution and reparations.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there are still tons, I mean,
[SPEAKER_02]: Malnutrition, the most sexual use the most addiction, poverty, you know, lack of access to clean drinking water and other resources on their own lands.
[SPEAKER_02]: Treaders are still violated every day by pipelines.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we've had a prime minister who will tearfully accept honors from First Nations groups and John the Regalia and cry about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then just approve another billion dollar pipeline across.
[SPEAKER_06]: You've got your own version of Nancy Pelosi doing the Wakanda fucking thing with a kintake cloth on.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's exactly it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: land acknowledgements are big in Canada before every event.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you see it too in places like New York and San Francisco.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's like that in LA.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't mind landing knowledgements per se.
[SPEAKER_02]: But
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be the glaring disparity between or discrepancy, between the words and the actions can often be a lot to handle.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's even before you fold into the mix, the fact that you might end up with someone who is reading land acknowledgements while supporting or being silent about a genocide that candidates funding across the world.
[SPEAKER_09]: So that's reading an anti-smoking,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I at the Vancouver airport has a lot of beautiful first nations art and not only art on the walls, but like when you arrive at the international terminal and you walk back towards baggage claim, you walk through like this full on installation with like canoes and a flowing river and rocks and like the sounds of rainforest birds and whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I call it the
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we have a positive relationship with our native people's memorial lounge like it's it's right right even as the the native artists who have provided the art there are it's great that they have the opportunity to show their work in a way it's great to showcase that it also serves a PR role right and a kind of, you know,
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so it sounds like a very specific, you know, strain of like Canadian liberalism that, I mean, we see, you know, different versions of that in the United States.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think it's like the added, in dignity of it also being as an openly Zionist coworker.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm doing a land acknowledgement is like, you know, what would you do if you had, like, you mean other than derision?
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_06]: Well, like, what are you supposed to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: What depends what your relationship is with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've said any time anyone asks us what would you do with a Zionist in your life questions?
[SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you might ask them, hey, cool, you know.
[SPEAKER_06]: Never seen any contradiction in doing a land acknowledgement while you are actually supporting an indigenous population being genocide.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think that that should apply in all cases?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Of land theft and you know.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I can assume already what the answer would be, and a lot of the times with these particular types of liberal Zionists, the answer is to try to bolster the reported fucking indigeneity of all Jews to the land of Israel, and it's one of the things I hate about the
[SPEAKER_06]: the conversations around, you know, the, you know, indigenousness of peoples and the struggles.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, I understand that they're being disingenuous, but in general, my kind of thought is when it comes to, you know, talking about indigenous peoples, sometimes it can obfuscate a very, I think,
[SPEAKER_06]: Specifically, I don't know, a attainable point or like one a relatable point, which is like, what if your house was stolen from you?
[SPEAKER_06]: What if your land was taken from you?
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not, you know, checking the passports of the people whose house was taken, be like, well, where are you actually from?
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't care about that.
[SPEAKER_06]: It to me, I mean, obviously it is colonialism, so that's why people put it in that specific framework.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um, however, I think in general, people understand the concept of being mad at people who took your house, being mad at people who stole your stuff.
[SPEAKER_06]: Uh, to me, that's much a much more simpler, um, I don't know, rubric to look at it through then, you know, something a little bit more academic and maybe a little bit more like, um, not real to especially white people, uh, and especially Western people who are already,
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, kind of they're already living on stolen land so they can't help but look at themselves is like, well, I mean does that mean I'm bad and then they get into the defense mechanisms immediately that's my I mean if it was me and I was on that call probably what I would do is something like the following after the land acknowledgement is done.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't call out the person specifically for being a Zionist.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would just troll them by saying I'm real thank you so much for that beautiful land acknowledgement and this expression of the hope we all have for both truth and reconciliation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And especially for past crimes, crimes that that undergird and underwrite the regime that we're living in.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would just invite us to think about how can we reconcile ourselves with the truth of what hasn't stopped happening, what is currently happening, not a past crime, but a present crime that our country is paying for specifically in Palestine done by the country as a government of Israel.
[SPEAKER_02]: How can we strive to be more consistent with the assumed values underneath the very nice sounding land acknowledgement we just heard?
[SPEAKER_06]: Can you get away with that at jobs in Canada?
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never had a job.
[SPEAKER_02]: Job?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you can, that'd be so true.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've had jobs in Canada.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was selling Persian.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, hand jobs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: See the end one.
[SPEAKER_06]: No, this is why no one's asking me questions They're like, Matt just gonna say oh, so good dick, but it's like, no, I have things inside of me, man Oh, it's like that sucks, but digs and dick digs and hands.
[SPEAKER_09]: Ah, come on, man All right, so next we have a voicemail Yeah, would you guys like like to see
[SPEAKER_04]: Propalcin activists in the West bring up the Palestinian refugee issue a bit more feels like, you know, we talked about apartheid Occupation, but and I feel like the refugee issue is very key for Solving the Palestine question.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all If I'm reading your accent correctly, sir, sounds like you're from the southern half of
[SPEAKER_02]: this great nation and I'd like to show it out our listeners in the south and tech.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: You will rise again.
[SPEAKER_06]: Wait.
[SPEAKER_06]: You will not rise again.
[SPEAKER_06]: Never rise.
[SPEAKER_06]: But thank you for.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Any listeners in the south.
[SPEAKER_06]: Um.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, so if I understand the question correctly is asking if pro-Palestine activists should also be talking more about the refugee issue.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The right over turn.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: I assume he's talking about the Palestinian diaspora's right over turn and or the amount of Palestinian refugees and maybe other Arab states and like Jordan and Lebanon and the conditions that they currently live in.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It should always be in the foreground.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can really tell when someone has made the journey, like fully made the journey from a sort of a Zionist framework.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: A Zionist framework when they're willing to end.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for instance, child benefit the liberal Zionist that I interviewed on show not too many months ago back in the summer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Back then, he was still teetering on the fence.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now he's posting things like this.
[SPEAKER_02]: the genocide ends, the occupation ends, apartheid ends, and their Palestine is free, and there's a right of return for all Palestinian refugees.
[SPEAKER_02]: And those are the bottom lines.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and I think for a lot of Palestine activists, I mean, depending on how much of public figures they are, or who their audience is, the way in which they talk about it can kind of seem like, I don't know, 101 for a lot of us.
[SPEAKER_06]: And so when people aren't addressing the right of return for Palestinians, I don't always necessarily view that as a criticism unless they are actively against it.
[SPEAKER_06]: Depends who it is and depends who their audience is.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think that people who don't talk about it for the specific reason of trying to
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, get more people to, you know, call more people into the cause in one way or another.
[SPEAKER_06]: I can understand it as getting into the weeds for some people.
[SPEAKER_06]: Because then you're talking about logistics all of the sudden.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I think like some people are just trying to
[SPEAKER_06]: Spread the message that this is in a partite state that's doing a genocide and this needs to end look.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also so diabolical one of the successes of Zionism is to fracture and fragment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, what it is to be Palestinian into five or six.
[SPEAKER_06]: I mean, listen, and yet people still ask you questions, most of it's unfair.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's also, you know, you've got Palestinians in Gaza who are suffering something very distinct and local there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Physiologically not contiguous with, but obviously very connected to Palestinians in the West Bank who are suffering what they're suffering, but under a different set of circumstances, and they themselves are physically contiguous, but politically separate from Palestinians in East Jerusalem, and they can't travel there even the few miles, and then East Jerusalem,
[SPEAKER_02]: Go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go
[SPEAKER_02]: how are you supposed to treat this as a singular issue?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now people have found a way by connecting it all to the route, which is in the perpetrator, which is Zionism, and Israel, and once we take care of that, once we dismantle that structure.
[SPEAKER_02]: then all of these disparate pieces can start to come back together again, but it's it's difficult to keep your eye on everything at once.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_06]: This conversation reminds me a little bit of the Bynart book that we just read and talked about with Peter Bynart.
[SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, one of the
[SPEAKER_06]: Issues he brings up a couple of times in the book is the name of the state as being like something that has to be worked out like unlike South Africa, which could stay South Africa without their, you know, being any complaints.
[SPEAKER_06]: from any part of the population, you know, keeping the name as Israel or changing it to Israel, Palestine was, you know, something he brings up a few times, and for me, I was, you know, it's like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: It was an issue that I was interested in, but a more cart before the horse type of thing.
[SPEAKER_06]: And that's not to say it's the same, obviously, the refugee issue is paramount to understanding, and to understanding both what's happening and to also having, like, I think, a cogent analysis of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Was he really in the book raising that as a major, it wasn't a color, was he sort of saying, look, we can deal with that when we get there.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, I'm not saying that Bynart was raising it as a major obstacle, but I thought of it as I was reading it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was like, you know, this is like one of those, like I made a joke about this, where it's like just call it palestine, but the STI.
[SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, like, like a goldstein, right, or literally even steam.
[SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, I don't mean for that matter.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and so, you know, to me, I think of it as like he was tying it to sort of a broader issue with what happens after, and I am connecting it to this only in such to like point out that, you know, we've there's
[SPEAKER_06]: a logistical issue here where it's like there's a little bit, again, it's carte for the horse.
[SPEAKER_06]: I do think that people should have it in Alice's on this.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't fault anyone who is going to not
[SPEAKER_06]: Get into the weeds.
[SPEAKER_06]: I will fault anyone who is against the idea of a Palestinian right of return to me.
[SPEAKER_06]: That is not compatible with Being you know Antisomist yeah or human, but I mean yeah, it's like the What the negotiation is after the state of Israel is collapsed?
[SPEAKER_06]: That is going to be you know something that I am not a part of
[SPEAKER_06]: sort of like the end of apartheid in South Africa.
[SPEAKER_06]: I was not a part of the conversation of like, you know, what the makeup of the state was going to be and what truth and reconciliation was going to look like.
[SPEAKER_06]: So I don't feel total, you know, need for everyone that necessarily comment on it.
[SPEAKER_06]: But I do agree.
[SPEAKER_06]: Activists in general should have an analysis about it.
[SPEAKER_09]: Andrew on the request line, I'm curious if you have a plan to discuss Israel's historic
[SPEAKER_02]: Did we not talk about that with Tony Karen?
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure we did, but I mean, in terms of going more in depth, we probably could and should.
[SPEAKER_02]: That sounds like one of those episodes that were required to learn things in advance.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I know a lot about South Africa.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's the, yeah, so I could, I could, I could lead that.
[SPEAKER_06]: I've, uh, I read a long walk to freedom.
[SPEAKER_09]: That seemed lethal weapon to, sometimes.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, diplomatic immunity.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I know that Yeah, yeah, I was I made a mistake on that episode saying it was coming to I saying it was Beverly Hills cop too But actually it was lethal weapon.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and yeah, yes What an accent.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, and the long walk to freedom is very good, and I'll sew the book Yeah, Australia and South Africa are I think the day
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all we need to know about whether white people should go to the Southern Hemisphere to create countries.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like, well, how does the accent sound when they get there?
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: English speakers, English speakers should not be...
[SPEAKER_02]: settling that part of the globe.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just turns your accent all ball wonky.
[SPEAKER_06]: It seems weird.
[SPEAKER_09]: I'm from C. T. I think we can just stop it at English people should not be settling.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: Stop settling.
[SPEAKER_06]: Stay bachelor's.
[SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[SPEAKER_09]: Phoenix asks, is a two-state solution not akin to separate but equal in some way, or is a true equality just so unattainable?
[SPEAKER_09]: that it is the only reasonable path to saving the Palestinian people from this genocide right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, look, it's first of all, a two-stage solution is not akin to separate but equal.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's separate but unequal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, separate anyone who says anyone who used the phrase separate but equal was probably gunning for some kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: entrenched in equality anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's right.
[SPEAKER_06]: The people who said separate political were uh, did not believe that the separation of egalitarian.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it was equal.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, because because because the two state solution, any any solution in which the Jewish state of Israel continues to exist, cannot allow an equal
[SPEAKER_02]: Palestinian entity to exist in an equal Palestinian entity would mean an entity with exactly the number of same billions of dollars of U.S.
[SPEAKER_06]: support with a military of its own and air force with with with with with what sovereignty or any kind or anything that would be even you know partially considered to be sovereignty like with contiguous territory it's just not is your all can't even live with Lebanon existing
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you think that they can, you know, live with a non-contiguous or ridiculous Palestinian state now, and it's because of Zionism specifically, there is no solution that allows Zionism to continue to exist.
[SPEAKER_06]: Like, even if there was.
[SPEAKER_06]: two states, right, you still have a Zionism in which a demographic majority of Jews is the necessary in order for it to continue being a Jewish state.
[SPEAKER_06]: That can't be maintained without Nazi stuff happening.
[SPEAKER_06]: That can't be maintained without, like, how do you control a population's birth rate?
[SPEAKER_06]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_06]: How do you control a, you know, immigration and whatnot without, you know, backsliding into fascism, the way that they would certainly do.
[SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, when I hear two states' solution, I think a lot of us, we know it's like, you know, it's like a fucking Southern Southerner in the fucking Jim Crow South saying separate but equal.
[SPEAKER_06]: We know what you mean when you say
[SPEAKER_06]: which is just like a continuous status quo of, um, yeah, of inequality and maybe in the future state of free, you know, the future free state of Palestine.
[SPEAKER_02]: they could throw the Zionist's phone and so to speak, and turn the decommissioned nuclear power plant of Demona into a giant AI hologram simulation of the four times when Zionism reigns.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a theme park for people who are going through withdrawal, go and enjoy the good old days, but you have to
[SPEAKER_02]: quarantine from the rest of the population for a full month after you attend and there's exit programs and all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, kind of methadone.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and in terms of like, you know, the real politics of it all and, you know, people who say that, you know, people who are anti-zionists and do talk about the possibility of a two-state solution, you know, I
[SPEAKER_06]: I, again, look at a lot of this as a cart before the horse.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't know what the negotiations going to be when Israel eventually collapses, and I am not there to, you know, as a voice and a, you know,
[SPEAKER_06]: activist or whatever the fuck.
[SPEAKER_06]: I'm not going to immediately concede the idea of like immediately handing over a rhetorical concession when I'm not even in the fucking room and you know speaking out for a two-state solution to me is like kind of ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like if you want to project what you think might happen fine But I'm not going to advocate for the continues the continuance of Zionism and I never would
[SPEAKER_02]: any basis even tactically on which you could have argued and Finkelstein did throughout the odds that BDS was making this strategic error because you know if you want to use international law as your impetus for changing things then if you want to go with the green you have to stop at the red and is really recognized as a statement will be international laws completely collapsed humanitarian laws completely collapsed Israel sought seen to it and the the fact on the
[SPEAKER_02]: talking about his two state solution anymore, you know, um, so I mean, he never thought it was the moral.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, of course not.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he made the distinction between the law and the application of the law and moral rights versus political
[SPEAKER_02]: strategy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And those are valuable distinctions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course, in 2025, I don't think we're living in the same world that we were.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I always put myself in a, you know, position of, you know, am I someone who necessarily needs to open, you know, in, in, in that matter.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I don't see that as my, um,
[SPEAKER_06]: As my role, you know, I don't see it as like, I'm not gonna, I just, it's something I personally hate when people immediately are like, here's the state I see and it's like, I don't, I don't care if you're not running for office or you don't want to go home to help me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't want to negotiate in committee.
[SPEAKER_06]: Is that what you're saying?
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, just like here's what I think should happen cooler.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you a diplomat or just right exactly exactly and we're not all running for office We don't have to have a complete raft of political positions on every conceivable thing like here's not platform All right, and I think it's a trap a lot of the times Uh, you know, and people I think to easily fall into it in which they go, well, what are you going to do in your middle east?
[SPEAKER_06]: How are you gonna solve it?
[SPEAKER_06]: You're still not more and they'll have that voice they all have that voice Oh, you think you're you think you're so smart.
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, girl.
[SPEAKER_06]: They're usually yelling at a girl It doesn't happen to me that much happens to like you know Emma Bigel and there's something like that or Aranya Collock who's just like getting yelled at by someone oh, good you smart
[SPEAKER_09]: uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh
[SPEAKER_09]: which continues to institutionally and overwhelmingly support Israel and they're so-called right to defend itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: When we ever do anything that made you think that we think we represent the Jewish community.
[SPEAKER_02]: We represent the Jewish community at large.
[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't need to do this podcast.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's not saying at the top of every episode that this is the opinion of World Jewry.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I think all that's confusing people.
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to bad has barra the voice of Judaism.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the world's only Jewish people All right, well, and not has a little more to say okay go ahead.
[SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[SPEAKER_09]: Go ahead.
[SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[SPEAKER_06]: Same.
[SPEAKER_09]: I thought we weren't allowing statements Questions or so.
[SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, there's there's the word at the end
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, we've been doing this recording now for about two and a half hours.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're getting a little punchy.
[SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_09]: The majority of Jews are Zionists and will continue to be.
[SPEAKER_09]: Even if they're supposedly critical of Netanyahu, there's no indication that will ever change.
[SPEAKER_09]: Every Jew I know is still rabidly Zionist.
[SPEAKER_09]: Quite honestly, how do you not feel futile when all you can do is just dunk on losers on Twitter when they're getting everything they want?
[SPEAKER_09]: Israel is going to win.
[SPEAKER_09]: It feels like Palestine has no future.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's dangerously close to a statement, Adam.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's dangerous.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's got real statement.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a deal with a little question mark slipped in there to make it sound inderogative.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: It should have ended with thoughts.
[SPEAKER_10]: No, I'm wondering if you could speak to that.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I mean, listen, I'm happy to deal with this.
[SPEAKER_06]: What kind of, I mean, it's hard to tell whether or not that's a bad faith question, or that is just a frustrated listener.
[SPEAKER_06]: And to be honest, it's like, I don't blame any of our actual listeners for having
[SPEAKER_06]: for being pessimistic.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's hard to not be pessimistic, but we will take it as if it is in good faith.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think it might be.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: You know, so first, do you guys honestly believe you represent the Jewish community at large?
[SPEAKER_06]: No, we have never ever claimed to represent the Jewish community at large.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do not represent the the majority opinion of a Jews at large nor even if we could claim that we have played a small part in a small uptick of Jewish support for Palestinian rights and Jewish discussed with Israel and Zionism, even if we wanted to claim that we've made some contribution to that and I don't think we did possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't think it's implausible to say we made some contribution, whatever, part of something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hand-hine biners made a contribution, you know, that still wouldn't be nearly enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wouldn't be enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be able to say the tide has turned.
[SPEAKER_02]: We would not be able to say Jews at large have been saved or denotsified from Zionism.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, thanks to us or anything else.
[SPEAKER_06]: Right, and, you know, it goes on in the question, the majority of Jews or Zionists will continue to be, even if there's supposedly critical Netanyahu, there's no indication that that will ever change.
[SPEAKER_06]: I feel like that to me feels like a lot of like, you know, I see the future.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like mixing a few things.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and number one, it's the idea.
[SPEAKER_09]: We can do mysticism and predicting the future.
[SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_06]: We, if you're not a cabala practitioner,
[SPEAKER_02]: When we look into our crystal knocked ball, that's right.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, crystal knocked Kabala and too many I've added too much.
[SPEAKER_06]: I've added too much to the pun The there's sort of there's two things going on there where it's like
[SPEAKER_06]: You're the assumption that, you know, the people who are critical of Netanyahu, you know, we're talking about the liberal Zionists and a lot of kind of mainstream Jewish institutions that have even slightly, you know, descended from the voice of the whole or whatever.
[SPEAKER_06]: the furthest they've gone is just being like Netanyahu's a problem.
[SPEAKER_06]: From an institutional level, yes, I agree that there doesn't seem to be any indication that these institutions are going to change.
[SPEAKER_06]: We talked about this with Peter Bynart on our previous episode.
[SPEAKER_06]: about it being kind of, you know, it's hard to know what the strategy is, you know, inside of the Jewish community, whether it's like trying to co-op to those institutions or create our own.
[SPEAKER_06]: And I, you know, still do not know the answer to that.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think the idea when you say things like the majority of Jews are Zionists and will continue to be forever and forever, you don't know?
[SPEAKER_06]: And I see that as, like, particularly in cities because of the fact that it also, it's acting as if Zionism is, it's Zionism is propaganda that Zionism is somehow,
[SPEAKER_06]: Fundamental to Judaism, and fundamental to the Jewish people when it is very much as we've said on this podcast a thousand times a modern construct it is very much the modern You know Zionism is from 100 years ago that's it and not it's not a special kind of person who can be cured of their Zionism the fact is it's curable
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of factors mitigating against that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of money, a lot of money, a lot of a lot of, a lot of emotional currency that's been invested in it, a lot of people's, and it's all emotional.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the thing, guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we're talking about politics, but especially when it comes to tribal stuff, like this, people's attachment to their Zionism is an attachment in their minds, and Peter makes this
[SPEAKER_02]: places of worship to places of early childhood education to things people cling to for their ideas about themselves and people do not give up their identities easily unless there's something else being offered to them they they can find appealing or that they or they just think they can't live with the contradictions anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all we can do is keep applying the the
[SPEAKER_02]: speaking what we see as the truth and heightening the contradictions and people, you know, and making it harder and harder for the cognitive distance to to dwell inside one mind and increasing that the intensity of it and spreading it to the point where more than you never know, when you're when you're making popcorn, you know, you're
[SPEAKER_02]: The kernels are sitting there in the pan and nothing's happening and then one pops and other one pops and then before you know it, you lift the lid off on the whole thing's about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a few kernels at the bottom who and what's true is some people will never some people will never get out.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some of those most people.
[SPEAKER_06]: Some of those shoes will never pop into corn.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's exactly right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not what you're talking to Cornfeld.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But look, this goes for politics in general.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't do work for the, look, you listen to podcasts for instant gratification.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're, if you're looking to have a hit of, oh, wow, some people agree with me and they're charismatic, funny hints, I'm going to have great skin care, and then Matt's there too.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and also Matt is there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You train into a podcast every week and that's partly what we're here for.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an IV drip of nutrients, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're not going to stay in your bloodstream forever.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're not going to make a damn bit of immediate difference to the situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Politics is something different.
[SPEAKER_02]: Politics takes a lot of patience and you know, true culture is based on a willingness to work towards outcomes you will not live to see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you willing to do that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you willing to keep the faith and not have your investment in values, be contingent upon you, reaping the benefits in your lifetime?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't mean to come down hard on you and not, but you think your question is speaking to a thread of despair that's probably running through many of us.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder when the fuck is this going to change?
[SPEAKER_02]: And if not, what's the point?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we each have to decide for ourselves what we want to be a part of and what we want to stand for, whether or not the changes in the offing are not.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, and in terms of feeling futile when all you can do is dunk on losers on Twitter when they're getting everything they want, answers to dunk on more losers.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you know, if one or two losers doesn't do it for you three or four might, and if you, I don't know, if you find yourself, I think, feeling, um, you know, that this is all a few tile, just know that you are just, you are listening to a podcast, you are, this is, uh, this is not, um, uh,
[SPEAKER_06]: I wouldn't necessarily prescribe podcast consumption as a method of feeling good about world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Much less Twitter, like get off Twitter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's how you're feeling.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_06]: And when you say like, you know, there are the designers at the end of the day they're getting what they want.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's like, yeah, I know, that's why we are, that's why we do this is because of the fact
[SPEAKER_06]: it you know because we don't want them to win and that's that's why we do it and I think like the pessimism of Israel is going to win and Palestine has no future to me is like um I would say you know you could probably take that to a therapist touch-crash yeah and and you know and that's not to be mean about it but
[SPEAKER_06]: feel like the amount of resiliency that I've seen within Palestinians during, you know, living out conditions that I could never imagine myself living through, they seem to be more, I don't know, they have more resilience than that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're capable of, and the resilience is not just a bitter survivalism.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's joy, there's love, there's heart, and there's hope, I mean, that's the word Samood.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's more steadfastness.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's that?
[SPEAKER_06]: There's music, and there's poetry.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's music in this poetry, and Samood steadfastness, after which the global Samood flitilla was named, and really glad to see our friend Tyga's free.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have we heard any news about Greg?
[SPEAKER_06]: He's free, he's free too.
[SPEAKER_06]: Greg and Tyga are free.
[SPEAKER_06]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_02]: steadfastness.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, like what I said, like fighting for something not because there's a win that's coming like tomorrow or whatever, but because it gives you life to do so.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's fine to take a break.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're at the point where you're so black-pilled that you, you know, it's just the more you see the more depressed you get and the less heartened you get.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then go tend to your heart.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yeah, and I think that is to me that most important advice is you should prioritize your mental health in all of this because you are not if what you're trying to do is in act
[SPEAKER_06]: you know, this, this depressed and pessimistic.
[SPEAKER_06]: And a lot for a lot of our listeners in acting change is not, you know, they're not listening to this to learn, you know, different ways to be active necessarily.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's for a lot of it.
[SPEAKER_06]: It is just kind of like getting together and being like we're the same ones.
[SPEAKER_06]: Everyone else is fucking crazy.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think that is a more healthy way to engage with any content and any podcasting.
[SPEAKER_06]: It's a remember that it's done by the stupidest people in the world sometimes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So podcasts may be food for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It may be fuel for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: But primarily it's a laxative.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it allows you to let go of the shit that isn't serving you and I just want to say to because I think that's to me this is a great question to go out on even though it's you know Loki pessimistic I want to say just in terms of
[SPEAKER_06]: fighting that bit of pessimism.
[SPEAKER_06]: I look at all of the sort of way in which people engage with this and they see the nothing changing and they're looking at things for this very lens that I think is understandable, which is that you're seeing very slow moving action while people are being genocide at every day.
[SPEAKER_06]: And it all feels, you know, for some people, it can feel futile and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_06]: But, um, if you do kind of take a step back and, uh, try to, um, look culturally at the very least at what has changed, I think you would be surprised as to the amount of, um,
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, the amount of like, cultural change and the way the wind is blowing in terms of how people are talking about this, I've never seen so much support for Palestine in my life and, you know, this is something that I've cared about and talked about for a long time, so I
[SPEAKER_06]: I still have optimism because I can look at it from a longer view.
[SPEAKER_06]: That doesn't, of course, you know, doesn't mean the genocidal end tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_06]: And we can only hope that it does.
[SPEAKER_06]: But I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know human being has ever seen a tectonic plate shift.
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's never been witnessed ever by anyone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Except that means it won't happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: the planet we live on doesn't mean it's not happening just because you can't see it or feel it absolutely.
[SPEAKER_06]: Guys, I think that's it.
[SPEAKER_06]: I think that is our male bag episode.
[SPEAKER_06]: We invite you to please listen to our answers to other questions on the Patreon.
[SPEAKER_06]: So go to patreon.com slash bad as bar.
[SPEAKER_06]: If you would like to listen to those Patreon exclusive episodes, thank you to everyone who submitted.
[SPEAKER_06]: It was very cool how many people were eager to write and to us.
[SPEAKER_06]: Thank you to all those who have questions for Daniel.
[SPEAKER_06]: not me.
[SPEAKER_06]: I don't even care.
[SPEAKER_06]: Obviously, I'm not bothered.
[SPEAKER_06]: I am booked and busy.
[SPEAKER_06]: I have self-esteem that no man can put a thunder.
[SPEAKER_06]: And thank you to producer Adam for getting all these messages together.
[SPEAKER_09]: My pleasure.
[SPEAKER_06]: Patreon.com, so I spat as barra.
[SPEAKER_06]: Bad as barra.gmail.com for your questions, comments, and concerns, we will be back with our regularly scheduled guest episodes very soon.
[SPEAKER_06]: But for now, thanks for listening, and until next time, from the river to the sea.
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys sure ask questions separately, but don't eat will eat.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_05]: Jumping jacks was us, pushups was us, grab my god us, all her ready us, take my leave.
[SPEAKER_05]: Charter makes us, and the war was us, Keith led to Joker us.