[SPEAKER_01]: This is episode four hundred and twenty two of wheel bearings.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am Sam a bull salmon from telemetry and I am Roberto Baldwin from S.A.E.
[SPEAKER_01]: International.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Nicole is let's see today.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll actually all this weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is scouting sites with her daughter and future son-in-law for their upcoming wedding.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are driving around to various places in New Hampshire and the surrounding area to figure out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do they want to do the where do they want to do the event so best of best wishes to Nicole and Rose and Reza and hopefully they find something that's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not too insanely priced.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're just gonna do like like Sam and I Just get married on the beach.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna treat each other, but to our wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we both got married in Hawaii, uh, with nobody else around.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're anti social jerks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I get I gave everyone a year notice that we were getting married on the beach.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like we're going to the toy ever getting married on the beach.
[SPEAKER_02]: You got a year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go if you want to.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't, it's fine with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't even do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We told my parents, and that was it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so you're more of an antisocial jerk than me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm my low level.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're mid level.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you didn't have anything to drive this week, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're still working on how we're going to be doing reviews over SAE.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, I know I need to get them for the podcast, but I also want to make sure
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I want to double.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to get the the most value out of having the cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I had, uh, I drove two different cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and they were, I actually quite different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, the first one was the 2025 Volkswagen Tiguan SE.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the third generation of the Tiguan, uh, all new this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and I, from a design perspective, I like this one a lot better than the previous generation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was, I was not a fan of the second generation Tiguan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it, it, it just,
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially the version that we got here in North America.
[SPEAKER_01]: So elsewhere in the world, they have two different variants of the Tiguan.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had the standard one, and they had a long wheel base one, which was originally developed for the Chinese market.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they're depending on where you are, they're actually one of them is actually not even called a Tiguan, but that's the longer one, it goes by a different name in some markets.
[SPEAKER_01]: But here in North America, we only got the longer wheel base one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I always thought the proportions were a little off.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just didn't work for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was not a big fan of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, I wasn't crazy about driving the previous TIG one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it was a little, little on the heavy side.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it had one of the 63,000 variations of their two-liter turbo four-cylinder.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you can you can get that engine in various Volkswagen group vehicles from about 160ish horsepower up to well over 300 horsepower in the Golf R. I think in the Golf R it was like 320 something like that The version that they put in the US market Tiguan had a 178 horsepower and it just
[SPEAKER_01]: it felt sluggish to put it bluntly yeah it was not that we want to get the long one so that you're just yeah yeah and the I always thought the ergonomics of it you know for the for the driver always felt a little peculiar the steering wheel felt kind of high and at the wrong angle I don't know I just I was just never I could never quite connect with that car
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not true for the new TIG1, new TIG1 much better, much better looking, it's a much more attractive design, still has the 2 liter EA888 engine, it's actually listed here as EA888 EVO 5.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is family of four cylinder engines, the A-8-8-8 has been around for a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: This year, it's got 201 horsepower, 207 pound feet of torque, and it's got an 8-speed automatic transmission, and it felt much better than the last one that I drove.
[SPEAKER_01]: Still not, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: what I would call sporty feeling in this form, you know, and again, in other markets, they saw versions of the Tiguan, they have a GTI or GTX version of it that's got even more power.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the one that I had, interesting, I mean, oftentimes, you know, when we get press vehicles to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: They usually give us the high-end models.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't often give us the middle-level or lower-term levels.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in this case, they sent me the SE and front-wheel drive, which is the one that probably unless you live somewhere, like Colorado or places where to get winter weather,
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the one, this is the version that probably the the biggest number of people are going to buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so there's an S trim level, the SE's, the mid-level trim, and there's SEL.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is, you know, the one that's got decent amount of equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: front wheel drive 200 or 200 one horsepower, you know, the performance is perfectly adequate.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not not going to get anybody real excited, but, you know, it's also, it also doesn't feel as sluggish as the old one did.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's exactly what people just, you know, that they were like, I need a lot of power.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now you know, especially for a car like this, you know, you know, you just need to get around.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly, this is the one you're going to commute to work in, you're going to drop off the kids, it's cool, pick them up, take them, take them to, you know, wherever they need to go, you know, to, you know, even, you know, to go on a little, you know, camping trip, go on vacation with your partner, you know, the back seat is roomy, the front seats, roomy, VW seats have always been pretty comfortable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think probably my biggest complaint with the interior is it still, it does have the newer version of their infotainment system, you know, their modern or current generation infotainment system.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been significantly updated the software.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it runs a lot faster than in the past, but it still has, you know, a lot of touch controls along the bottom edge of the screen, you know, so that's, you know, that's not ideal, you know, for like the temperature controls, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the infotainment interface runs fairly smoothly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't, there's no, you know, not like some of the, in recent years, you know, some of them were definitely kind of janky feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: They, you know, they were not Microsoft.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of lag.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was not no longer, no longer the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: They fixed that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first thing that this infotainment system, you could start the car and drive down the street before it launched.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, this is this is definitely a lot better than that so nope no real issues there
[SPEAKER_01]: All the usual driver-sist features, you've got your blind spot monitors, Lane Keep Assist.
[SPEAKER_01]: This one had the travel assist, which is a hands-on level one system, so it does lane centering and adaptive cruise control, but you've got to keep your hands on the wheel, which is fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have no issue with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: get rear cross traffic alert, all that good stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: The V-Tex, you know Volkswagen's V-Tex, you know, synthetic leather interior is nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had it in our Jetta for years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no no complaints about that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: It, you know, generally it feels pretty good, you know, it doesn't feel as premium as say an equivalent Mazda, you know, Mazda's have a much more premium feeling interior.
[SPEAKER_01]: This didn't have that, you know, but it's also, at least in the SE trim, not as expensive as the Mazda.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's a it's a good compromise, you know, that's still fairly affordable.
[SPEAKER_01]: With the 8 speed automatic front wheel drive, it's rated at 28 miles per gallon combined 25 city 32 highway.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got around around 29 in my driving, which was pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So again,
[SPEAKER_01]: feel particularly firm, you know, so on rougher pavement, that's good, you know, maybe a little more body motion than I would prefer, and certainly a little more than I would typically expect in a Volkswagen, but again, generally fine, you know, nothing that is overwhelmingly
[SPEAKER_01]: bad or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I said the 12.9 inch touchscreen, you get digital instrument cluster, all the usual stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the one that I had, the Monroeney, has the price listed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the total price bottom line price on the Monroeney was $33,720.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to take a guess at the
[SPEAKER_01]: You're very close, 14.25.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really, I had to stop and thank because there's no one to compete against.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I just got to get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I was just going through some stuff this morning, getting ready for the show, and saw an article pop up that, you know, Volkswagen is increased prices on the Tiguan and so I went back and double-checked.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now,
[SPEAKER_01]: The same tick one, the exact same car that I drove, the MSRP on the one I drove was $32.95.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's now $33,045.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's gone up by just under $875.
[SPEAKER_01]: $780.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it has gotten a little more expensive as most cars are, right now, most cars are getting more expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: They did not increase the destination charge, the destination charge is state the same, so it's still 14.25.
[SPEAKER_01]: But so it was the price.
[SPEAKER_02]: So sneaking, no sneaky price increases, like up front, yeah, this costs more now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, whoops.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, to moderate, you know, relatively moderate price increase given everything else that's going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see, where the Tiguan's for the U.S.
[SPEAKER_01]: market are built in Mexico, the built in VW's Pueblo of Mexico assembly plant.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do build the transmissions here in the US, but they primarily, most of the parts come from Mexico or from Germany, the engines I think come from Germany.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's definitely, I think worthy of consideration, I like to say, I like the new design, I think it looks a lot better than it did before.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it fits in, you know, with the current generation of compactish, you know, to midsize crossovers, you know, so CRV is RAF4s and so on.
[SPEAKER_01]: BW doesn't offer, you know, any sort of hybrid power train, which I think is probably the biggest let down with this car, because, you know, the top sellers in this segment, the CRV in the RAF4.
[SPEAKER_01]: do offer hybrids, very, very fuel efficient hybrids.
[SPEAKER_01]: The rogue is supposed to get a plug-in hybrid power train in 2026, basically the same system that's in the Mitsubishi Outlander.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, the 2026 RAF4, which is going to be driving this week, is hybrid only.
[SPEAKER_01]: They no longer offer a non-electrified power train in there, so it's hybrid and plug-in hybrid are the only options in the new RAF4.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think VW needs to get a hybrid power train into this and some of their other models sooner rather than later in order to remain competitive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We went to the sportage, the kiss sportage drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were pushing, they're like, this is a hybrid, you know, we were driving the hybrid for this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they were like, people don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were concerned to think the average person didn't realize that Kia had hybrids in their vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, because they really want to go after, you know, Honda and Toyota, who's, you know, more and most of their, their sales for those vehicles are hot, they mean the RAF 4, they're not even, you know, why are we even making one that's not electrified?
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just, let's just get rid of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no point, I give everyone the hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, CRV sale, hybrid sales are like, I think about 55, 56% of CRV sales in the US now.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so it's more than a half.
[SPEAKER_01]: For 26, 100% of RAF4 is going to be hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for now, you can also still get a hybrid in a fort escape.
[SPEAKER_01]: you can get hybrids in the Hyundai Tucson and the Kia Sportage.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, all of the top sellers offer a hybrid or will shortly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think that's probably the biggest thing that the VW needs to address with this thing is to get a hybrid power train option in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I think that's there.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, VW's had some tough years, so we'll hopefully they can get it together,
[SPEAKER_02]: but it does look better.
[SPEAKER_02]: The old one looked like they forgot they had a long wheelbase and so they did the designer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, we got to make it look all weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The proportions, especially from the B-pillar back, from the B-pillar forward, both versions are basically the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: and then the back end just looks kind of stretched out and it looks a little weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like they forgot and there's like, I don't know, just stretch it, just stretch it, make it white, just make it longer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this one's much better balanced.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just, you know, the rest of the overall contours, I think, look better, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, those just looks like a much better design vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, the other vehicle that I had was the 2025 Genesis GA 3.5 T Sport Prestige O wheel drive So that is a lot of name for a lot of car
[SPEAKER_01]: So the G80 has been around in its current form for a few years now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think last year it got a mid-cycle update and replaced the dashboard.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did some tweaking on though for the front end as well to the grill design a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: but really the the interior is where the the big change came so like the other current Genesis models it now has one large display you know that's not not so much integrated into the dashboard but sits on top and I think it's like 26-24-26 inches across you know it's kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about the same size as what you would find, the overall unit is about the same as what you'd find in some of the other Hyundai key of vehicles where they typically have to 12 and a half inch displays under a single piece of glass.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when it's off, it looks like it's all one, but when you start the vehicle, you realize it's actually two separate displays.
[SPEAKER_01]: The genesis all have just one big display that stretches from the instrument cluster across the center stack Nothing on the passenger side, but so it looks it looks a little more premium The graphics on it look really good The interior of the G80, you know is lovely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know no complaints no issues with that
[SPEAKER_01]: uh the uh the one that I had uh had the was in uh let's see vant vatna gray, not vant a gray, vatna gray, vatna gray, vatna gray, vatna gray, have no idea what that's supposed to mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh huh, but uh uh it's uh you know it's very very attract you know it's it's a it's a
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, it's a decent looking color.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not exciting, but you know, but it looks, it looks good enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: So no, no real complaints there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the interior was in their vanilla beige ash.
[SPEAKER_01]: gray, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's not, it's not, you know, real exciting color, but, you know, it looks the part, you know, for a premium, you know, a relatively large premium sedan.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is, you know, kind of, upper mid-sized sedan.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got their 3.5 liter twin turbo V6 with, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,
[SPEAKER_01]: with 375 horsepower, 391 pounds feet of torque, 8 speed automatic transmission, fully independent suspension, it's got rear wheel steering and rear electronic limited slip differential, so it handles really well and you know for a relative
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, it's still a good-sized car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very maneuverable.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very responsive on the road.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like the design of the wheels that they have on the prestige trim.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was probably about four or five, maybe six years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might have been in 2019.
[SPEAKER_01]: They, you know, one of their concepts.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it was maybe been before the GV80 was launched.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they had this concept that was at the New York Auto Show.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a five-spoke wheel, but the speech of the spokes were perforated.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of a mesh design.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is the same basic design, except it doesn't have all the holes in the spokes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're still solid, but it looks really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really attractive wheel.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it looks unique too.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing else quite like it on the road that I've seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Overall, I really like the design of the G80.
[SPEAKER_01]: Personally, the G90 is a great luxury car, but it feels more like a car to be driven in as opposed to something to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is obviously not as small as a G70.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, I think it's a good balance of, you know, a really premium feeling and, you know, very attractive design, you know, it's fast back design and it's amazing this car has come so far from the original Hyundai Genesis sedan.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I remember, you know, back in the, like, 2008 or nine when they launched the Genesis at that time, Genesis wasn't a standalone brand.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, you know, it was just a Hyundai model.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was their their top their flagship model for the Hyundai brand.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, um, in about 2014, 13 or 14,
[SPEAKER_01]: they split off Genesis as a separate brand, and by that time the second generation of the G8, you know, what was rebranded as the G80 came up, and this is the third generation, and it's really comes so far from that original car, you know, it feels like something the German automaker would build.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, it looks, I mean, I think it's, I think the design is really nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the design is almost a little bit what, um, Jaguar was kind of going for sort of, um, almost art deco inspired design, um, but this is more something that someone would, you know, you would see on the road versus, you know, the Jaguars, which more feel like from Batman to animated series, which I've talked about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Couple times everyone got all angry about those cars, but if you just made it black or gray instead of pink It was like, oh look at that car and you put Batman nice to it boom great car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think Genesis done a great job on the design of this car.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's from a design perspective.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually probably my favorite Genesis.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I most like driving the G70, but I'm most like to look at the G80.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is not far off.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like smaller cars, so that's why my preference for the 70.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if I had to have something a little bit bigger, the 80 would definitely be my choice out of these.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's got all the, all the usual stuff that you're going to find, you know, it's got beautiful leather seating and all of the driver-sist features, you know, it's got their highway driver-sist too, which again, so hands-on system, but it's got driver-monitor camera, so it's got, you know, driver-distraction alerts, you know, so if you're looking away from the road too much or,
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're getting tired and your eyes are, your eyelids are drooping or your head is tilting sideways.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to give you an alert to say, hey, do you need to take a rest?
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is a good thing, because a lot of times if you're doing a longer trip and you're tired, you may not really be aware of how tired you actually are, and that's really dangerous when you're driving.
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah you get the highway hypnosis yeah exactly we just like the lines again again it's the same you know the hum and then you know the lines and then you see you know the the right temperature and the cars it like really comfortable and you're like it's just sort of on autopilot which is not great because you're not really like suddenly you're like how did I the last 30 miles I don't remember the last 30 miles that's you're like oh dear yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, so I found it here that the display is actually 27 inches, so it's a single 27-inch OLED display.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, as with other Genesis and Hyundai models, it's also still got lots of physical controls.
[SPEAKER_01]: the center portion, the infotainment part of the display, is the touch screen, but it's also a fairly long reach.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can reach out and use it as a touch screen, but there's a center control knob.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can do it either way.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, Nicole can reach out and touch the screen.
[SPEAKER_01]: The rest of us can use the the center control knob.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a great car to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like this car.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the version that I had, I didn't actually get him in Roni for this one, which is unusual, but for this trim, the Sport Prestige O-wheel drive, $77,000 is the MSRP.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to take a guess at the destination?
[UNKNOWN]: $1500.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're off five, five bucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... so the grand total came to seventy eight four ninety five which you know it's yeah that's the electric cars yeah this is one of those car just on the roader like oh you kind of forget about it to you see one of them yeah it's not a lot of them around that you know they're selling a lot more of the the utilities the g v eighty the g v seventy so you don't see these very often but when you do you know it really catches your eye
[SPEAKER_01]: Alright, let's move on to some other stuff that happened this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's stick with the Hyundai Motor Group, and sadly, one of the models from the Kia brand is going away for 2020, after 2020, 26.
[SPEAKER_01]: the the soul.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's no more.
[SPEAKER_02]: So okay, so here's my story with the soul.
[SPEAKER_02]: Years ago I broke my ankle and I lived in the city.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had one car and it had a manual transmission and we had a Vespa.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what we got around it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for a while in order to get around with the giant boot, I had to, it was my left ankle.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had to use like the car sharing things like zip car and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like GM used to have one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to get someone an automatic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maven?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you can you like this is exactly what this car should be this is just this is it like they if they pack it everything about this car is exactly what it needs to be No more no less.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love this car
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, they were really affordable, they were surprisingly roomy, you know, and of the, you know, the so called box cars, you know, there were, there were more of these in Japan, but there were, there were three that were sold in North America, there was the soul, there was the Nissan Cube and the Sion XB and the soul was far away the best of the three.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was, yeah, it had kind of a funky look to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually pretty fun to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you ever drive the, the second generation electric version?
[SPEAKER_02]: I did.
[SPEAKER_02]: I went all the way to Korea.
[SPEAKER_02]: They flew me to Korea to drive a bunch of cars and then they're like, oh, here's the Kia Soul electric that's coming to the United States and I drove it around and I was like, I love this car so much and I was really excited about it coming to the United States to the US because they get that box and because it's a box there's just so, you know, the cargo space is just optimized.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, oh, this is perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a perfect car for like cruising around town.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not too big and then they canceled it because like, I don't have no batteries.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so that was actually the electric version of the third gen, so it was the second generational electric, but it was the third generation of the soul.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, the current generation, yes, it was the original soul EV was also really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it only had, it was about 125 miles of range.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, as an around town commuter, it was great and, you know, unlike something like the, you know, it wasn't as expensive as, you know, a fee at 500 E, or some of the other ones, you know, they were relatively short-range and it was, it was a lot of fun to drive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, this is a really a great car that I think a lot of people sort of dismissed, I mean, I dismissed it until I drove one and those who have it like really like them and those, but I don't think it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it, I mean, it outlasted off obviously the XB and the Nissan, but it's
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, you know, you still, you know, I still see new ones like my neighbor, but one of my neighbors does Torah when he has they have two of them in their their fleet and I was really excited when I saw them like oh snap
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, no, I mean, you know, RIP to the Kia Sola.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
[SPEAKER_02]: A great little car that lasted far longer than I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people made 2009.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a pretty great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, apparently they Kia says they sold one and a half million of them in the US since 2009.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, this was a very popular car, you know, the sales have dropped off quite a bit in the last couple of years.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, even even last year, I was looking up the sales the other day, you know, they sold almost 60,000 last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, so it's a shame that was going away.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still sad we didn't get that EV, Kiesol EV, like, yeah, that would have been, I think it had, well, I don't remember the range, I think it was the same as, like, the same setup that was in the, um, the Kona, the Kona, yeah, the Kona and the Nero.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it would have been maybe a little bit less range, just because it's a box.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But not much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was just about 200 miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it would have been really fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll have picture of me in the hamsters.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the hamster thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything about the Kiesel, thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So on Monday, who's past Monday, the automotive process association had an event at Rivian's Tech Center here in Plymouth, Michigan.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a fire site chat with RJ Scarrange, the founder and CEO of Rivian.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, he talked about about tariffs and all the other stuff, but he did have some other updates.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're getting ready to watch the R2.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be going to production, they're building pre-production models, building pilots now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But full production should be launching in the first half of next year, so in the spring So by by middle, you know by may June of next year they should should be starting deliveries of R2s to customers and those are still targeted to cost about $45,000 space price Which you know
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not cheap, but it's not bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's quite competitive, and this is an electric mid-sized SUV.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's using LG batteries this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're using new 46.95 cylinder large cylindrical batteries or cells from LG that they're building in their new factory in Arizona.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was asked a bunch of other questions, but I asked about whether Rivian would consider changing up their interior user interface a bit, because in Europe they've got some new rules for the Euro NCAP standards.
[SPEAKER_01]: that require vehicles to have physical controls for certain core functions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's also the report that came out last week that we talked about about them redesigning the manual backup for the door latches.
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically,
[SPEAKER_01]: Scorange made it pretty clear that he has no interest in moving away from the touch screen interface.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: He talked about how, you know, they've got the new controllers on the steering wheel of the R2, the new design that they've got on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he promoted the idea that, you know, the future, most people are just going to be using voice to interact with things like climate control,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't see how you're going to do that by voice.
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes no sense to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like the ribbons a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: Every time like we're going to do like this and like, gosh, come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just give us some.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, this is for someone who really likes the ribbons.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like the R1S.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like the R1T.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, all these are great.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're midsize.
[SPEAKER_02]: The R1T is essentially the ridge line, but like the R1T is the midsize track that Honda should have built.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just sort of doubling down because, you know, it saves them money at the end of the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, hardware buttons cost money.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's the cost money to design them to validate them and then, you know, production, you know, complicate production, you know, putting all those pieces together in a dashboard.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does add extra cost.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was funny because there was, when the, the model 3 came out, Tesla kept trying to tell me they're like, oh, this is about the future to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, no, you're trying to save money, this is a money play.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to save money.
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand, but let's not pretend this is like some sort of like fun, you know, all we're like Volvo with design.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not because the interior design is not great.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's boring.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's this is the save money like.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, but it is It's you know there there there there are new company Reviewing they they you know they're gonna try to save as much money as possible on what they're doing and I understand that but at the same time No
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah, you know, he, you know, I pushed back, you know, on the, like, for example, on the door latches thing, you know, and, you know, on the R1 on the re, the refreshed R1 that came out last year, you know, the manual door latch is literally like two inches from where the push button is on the, on the armrest.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's said, you know, if it's going to be right there, it's just as convenient to use the manual one as the push button.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you try to make the case of the push button feels more premium.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like, it's a truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stop it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're selling trucks, dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: What, you know, why, why, you know, if you have the manual one, why complicated by adding this other mechanism.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you're, you're, you're selling this vehicle, um, to people, you, you're telling people, everyone, oh, you can go camping, you can do this, you can do that, uh, at the end of the day, it's a, it's, that's people who are camping are like, you know what I need premium.
[SPEAKER_02]: premium.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't, you cannot one hand say, yes, this truck is rugged and not dorsy and did it up, but then they're like, oh, but then we have a premium door and I'm like, oh, I know what I understand what they're going for because the F-150 is essentially just a luxury vehicle to most people that has a bed.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is, you know, but it come on.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to go camping in the truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to stuff stick surfboards on top of the truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to click click click click click click click click One mechanical stuff
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, he also talked about, you know, being able to do clever things, you know, for example, with the rear doors, you know, on traditional vehicles, if you want to make it so kids can't open the rear doors, you've got to, you know, push the little latch on the back of the door, you know, to prevent the rear door handles from working, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, you still have to have the mechanism in there anyway, the manual mechanism.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what it makes, you know, you made basically made a lot of excuses that didn't really, didn't really hold much water.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's, you know, what was there was particularly impressed with his answers on that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the end of the day, the reality is, we decided on this path.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of money for us to change this path, because we already have things built.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're already building facilities.
[SPEAKER_02]: We always have things in production.
[SPEAKER_02]: We already have tooling like ready to go, like changing this path would cost us a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the answer.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, you can talk around it but at the end of the day, Rivian needs to make money.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Rivian decided,
[SPEAKER_02]: long ago this is what they were going to do and when they were like hey can you change this or like now we're not we don't have big piles of cash like you know like Hyundai who can be like oh let's let's step back from putting everything in screen and put buttons back in Hyundai has a ton of money Hyundai if you live in any sort of town or city that has a dock or
[SPEAKER_02]: What if a port?
[SPEAKER_02]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the word I was looking for as a port.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see giant Hyundai boats and giant Hyundai shipping Hyundai is not like and if you're if you're in Korea, you know, if you walk around Seoul you will see Construction cranes to say Hyundai on them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they're in a construction business.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're in the mining business Hyundai's in everything
[SPEAKER_02]: Hyundai is, yeah, Hyundai is everywhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's everywhere you want to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Hyundai is like the Honda of Korea.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're Honda makes a lot of stuff that people don't forget about.
[SPEAKER_01]: They said more, and you remember spot, the vicious robot dog, and the Atlas robots, who won't say that?
[SPEAKER_01]: My dynamics now, Hyundai.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hyundai, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they have the money to sort of lock stuff back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas, you know, if you're an automotive start up, that's really, really difficult once you've got it going.
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially for, you know, for the most part, again, like 80% of everything about that truck is, is amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's the thing, just 20% we're like, I really don't want it, adjust my events.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to look off the road to adjust events.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... alright uh... let's move on uh... to outie uh... at the uh... i a mobility show in uniclast month they showed off a concept for what maybe a future version of the tt uh... but auto car had a couple of interesting stories this week uh... with uh... some renders that they did uh... possible new uh... you know next generation outie products
[SPEAKER_01]: vertical rectangular drill that was on that concept and the very skinny horizontal headlamps.
[SPEAKER_01]: But two very different vehicles.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is the next generation are A4 sedan with that kind of styling theme.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think of this one?
[SPEAKER_01]: To compete
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I like the sort of like really slick looking vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, again, it's, you know, it's, it's the thing that Jaguar did.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone slammed them for, um, like, and I, I really think it's because of this pink and people cannot, people can't wrap their heads around something not being gray.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway,
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like it was pink and then it was like very much a like of you know, skewed tour of very young artsy You know audience and that is definitely not the Jaguar audience, but I Don't I you know, I like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it looks very you know futuristic.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got the very art deco Again Batman the animated series every auto makers designer has been watching the Batman the animated series Recently from you know a couple decades ago and are like what if we made cars like that?
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's we're that's we're that's we're moving into we're going to have a we're going to have a Mark Hamill Joker and then a bunch of other stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember anything else from the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: These you know both of these are you know renders that were done by by auto car.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that if it looks anything like this, that's going to be really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the time this comes out, one of the other things that's Garange mentioned was that the first VW group products with the Rivian software from the deal they did last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the first one is going to be the new ID1 that they showed off at IAA coming in 2027, but over the next several years, there's at least 32 models from across the VW group, you know, from this entry level Volkswagen EV for 20,000 euros.
[SPEAKER_01]: up to, you know, very expensive cars, presumably, Bentley's and, you know, Porsche's, you know, definitely Porsche's and, you know, the high-end outies are all going to use the Rivian software and this is, this is one of the vehicles that's expected to use that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it'll be nice, I still want, you know, manual vents.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, whenever I touch the vents in my car, which apparently is all the time, I think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm very aware of it, and he's not much just did it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now he just did it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now I realize I am like a hands-event touching.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other one that Aldo Carr had is a new SUV, a premium SUV, to challenge the Mercedes G class and land rover defender.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're speculating that this could be based off of the scout platform.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's it's the front end is interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they they went a little to to I think it's the the vents up you know at the outer edges of the the front fascia that are just like everyone but you know I'm a big sucker for a big boxy all will drive you know for will my god my dog is is he He's snoring so laugh
[SPEAKER_02]: I know I can't hear him but okay well if he can hear him, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Holy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Bowie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, I'm a big sucker for a big boxy, you know, Land Rover G. You know, the electric G wagon absolutely fell in love with that car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have G electric G. I don't have G wagon money.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have electric G wagon money.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, I think we talked about how much I like the NEO's Granadere because I have a big stucker for, you know, these sorts of vehicles that I have absolutely no use for where I live.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no use for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't need those vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I probably wouldn't buy one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like to move to middle and nowhere and Hawaii and or Alaska and then buy one.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all I, that's all I want to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Except, if you were in the middle of Alaska, would you really want something like a G-wagon, like something as expensive as a G-wagon?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would want, you know what, I would do a TFL.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would do it Roman did and get like a, well, no, I think I might get the G-Wagon over the defender just for the sake of, it'll be easier to get fixed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the G-Wagon probably would be more reliable than the defender.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what I'm going, like reliability wise.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a G-Wagon probably, I mean, they're literally built like tanks.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, you know what, if we had a tank and you could drive up a 45 degree angle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then people just parked it on Rodeo drives.
[SPEAKER_02]: What if we fidget made an incredibly capable off-roader and no one ever took it off-road?
[SPEAKER_02]: What if we did that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, that is pretty much the modern G-Wagon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, at least, you know, the vast majority of the audience for that view.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: They still do the stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: It still does all the stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: They haven't, like, sort of dumbed it down.
[SPEAKER_02]: They haven't, like, oh, let's take stuff out because people aren't going to do it anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're still just like, now we're just going to keep making it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because apparently, at one point, society will collapse and we'll meet those people.
[SPEAKER_02]: The rich people want to be able to get away from the poor people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, they'll just take off in their, you know, their e-v-talls and stuff and go about 100 miles and we'll land one direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, oh, no, or they'll have their special underground bunker where they hired a bunch of people who do security and then those people who just turn on them and bring their families.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, actually, I think what they'll do is they'll get in their EV tall, which will take them from either from like Skyline driver or from San Francisco down to Mountain View Airport, where they'll get on their private 767 and then fly to New Zealand or to some island in the Pacific where they have their, that they own.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but they still have, the thing is you're still dealing with the human element, where is, yeah, we hired all these big security dudes, keep people away from my super-secret bunker, guess what those dudes want to do now?
[SPEAKER_02]: They know where the super-secret bunker is, and they want to keep their families alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's why all these guys are investing in robots, because they don't want any humans, they just want the robots.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that sounds, that doesn't, yeah, I haven't seen this, this,
[SPEAKER_02]: Roomba.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the robot itchy.
[SPEAKER_02]: The robot you can buy for your home that works well is the Roomba and then that little mower which is essentially just a Roomba for your free
[SPEAKER_02]: The sort of walking around robots like yeah, and let's just like that beefy Boston dynamics thing like they they just At that time, I mean we're at the test level and that I don't touch the robots don't because yeah, they're going to fall over.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's move on to still and this
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that people loved about the slate truck is the fact that it has no infotainment system.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can just plug in your phone or your tablet and use that as your infotainment system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, apparently, Solantis got the message because in Europe, they offer a version of the entry level version of the Opal Frontera, which is a compact crossover.
[SPEAKER_01]: where you would normally find a touch screen, a center touch screen for the infotainment system.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a panel with a phone holder.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, one of those ones that you pull it apart, it's got some foam things in there, you stick your phone in there, let it go and just a claw that holds onto your phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's your infotainment system.
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go, there you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if customers in Germany can pay an extra $1,200 to get a screen and a small slate of other features.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you don't want a screen, you can just get the base one and just stick your phone in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all good.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't even have to buy a phone holder.
[SPEAKER_01]: It comes equipped with a phone holder.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my only concern is that it comes equipped.
[SPEAKER_02]: because what, you know, it's going to wear out or if it's not the right size, everyone's smile, you'll get a phone holder and it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't get wide enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if you could swap it out, like every few, you know, just like unscrew it and pop it out and put the new one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, hopefully they, hopefully they have a way to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then that I'm like, yeah, I wonder if it's that the car still has a modem though.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's sort of like, I believe in Europe, it's required for E call.
[SPEAKER_01]: So cars, you know, so, you know, when when when there's a crash, you know, it has to be able to call emergency assistance.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's required, but other than that, you know, I think that's the only thing
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I guess there's a couple other still Antis models in Europe, the C3, the Citroen C3 Air Cross is also available and the of course they, uh, Citroen amy, um, is, you know, this little quadricycle thing, um, is, uh, they, they're also available without a screen, but yeah, I think, you know, this, this could be a popular option.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, if, uh, if automakers offered it here,
[SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, my dad doesn't have a car that has a screen in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you'll ever buy a car with a screen in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just imagine him getting very angry at a car with a screen in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, I think he would be like, I don't want that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I, can I turn that off?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, can you take it out?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want that.
[SPEAKER_01]: at the opposite end of the Stalantis line up a vehicle that we do get here in North America is the Jeep Grand Wagon here, which is getting an update for Model Year 2026.
[SPEAKER_01]: Last year, yeah, spring of 2024, when I was in a roundtable session with Antonio Folosa, who was then head of Jeep and is now CEO of the company, mentioned one of the first things that he found.
[SPEAKER_01]: odd when he came over and moved over to take over Jeep at the end of 2023, was that when they launched the Wagon Air full-size SUV, they tried to make it a separate subbrand from Jeep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it didn't have any Jeep branding on the outside of the vehicle, except for like some really small Jeep branding inside the headlamp and taillamp clusters.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you looked real carefully on the inside the headlamp clusters, it had the word Jeep in there, but other than that, it didn't say Jeep anywhere on the outside of the vehicle or on the inside for that matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he said, we're changing that, it's just going to be a jeep from now on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for the other thing was it was a lot of confusion about, you know, wagging here versus grand wagging here, and they had series one and series two and series three and all this nonsense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they've done a styling refresh for the wagon here for 2026, it's now just Jeep grand wagon here, it says Jeep and big letters across the front edge of the hood and across the tailgate and no more wagon here and got a new new front fascia that takes inspiration from the
[SPEAKER_02]: I think those are all smartness.
[SPEAKER_02]: The wagon here, grand wagon here, I'm like, what are we doing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you don't, you still anticipate, you know, they've had some tough years, just give the people what they want.
[SPEAKER_02]: They just want the grand wagon here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't make things confusing.
[SPEAKER_02]: don't get people you know you're you don't have you know Toyota look you know they have a they have a crossover and SUV every one of them's like three inches bigger than the one before it like the but they sell they sell real they sell everyone of those weird like you know across over the SUVs because it's Toyota Jeep I think yeah just
[SPEAKER_02]: make it the Jeep, which is the brand of people people provide it because they want a luxury off-road vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: They want Jeep, they want Grandwagon here, those are the things they want here.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the thing they want to tell people when you're like, well, we got the Jeep, but you got the wagon here, but there's also the Grandwagon here, which even for me is my job, I'm like, what?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, yeah, okay, fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to have two different, but no, just just give it to Grandwagonia.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just say, hey, Jeep's got a big fancy three-row SUV.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really pretty and cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a luxury off-roader boom, Grandwagonia.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I like, hey, we got a big one.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we got a kind of a little one.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not quite as good, but you know, it's just like, you know, save somebody or settle down.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just make the big, expensive thing, the people I want to buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's just cheap brand wagon here now.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's fewer trim levels.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's base.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's the upland, which is the off road version that's lifted a little has altering tires and skid plates.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's limited and summit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so and then the pricing has been brought down
[SPEAKER_01]: quite a bit across the range.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the base model is about $1,700 more than the base wagon here was before, but it does have extra equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, at the top end of the range, the grand-wagoner L summit is about $16,000, or $17,000 less than the equivalent $20,000, $25 model.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, one of the things that Bob Broderdorf, who's the head of Jeep now, talked about was, you know, we're now aiming to just compete in the mainstream.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are, you know, he, I asked, you know, what, so does that mean you're no longer looking at stuff like the Cadillac escalated and we can navigate or so, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're targeting the volume of that segment, which is, you know, the Chevy Tahoe, GMC UConn, Ford Expedition, you know, that's, you know, and so they've priced it accordingly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So across the range, it's now, the pricing is fully competitive with all of those models.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I get another smart move to be honest.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, to start with, when they start production later this fall of the 26 models, the only engine in there will be the base, the standard output version of the 3-liter hurricane, 6-cylinder.
[SPEAKER_02]: What not, a heavy?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, heavy.
[SPEAKER_01]: know everything uh... you know they're not ruling out a hammy at some point but uh... you know you know acknowledged you know bob bob acknowledged that uh... you the the key thing you know for the hammy in the trucks is the way it sounds
[SPEAKER_01]: the truck buyers want the sound of V8.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, yeah, the himmy is not the best motor or engine that these, this, this company builds, but it, everyone like, they like the way it sounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, in this full size SUV segment, you know, they generally want a quieter experience, you know, the customers for this vehicle don't really care as much about that sound.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, going with the, um, with the hurricane,
[SPEAKER_01]: better option, you know, it's quieter.
[SPEAKER_01]: These customers are not so concerned about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, more power than you get with the hammy, it's better fuel efficiency.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're going to start production with the hammy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in later in the first quarter of next year, they're going to add a second power train option.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is the E-REV power train from the RAM charger slash RAM rev pickup truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is actually going to launch before the E-REV pickup truck does.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this has the Panistar V6 driving a generator, 92 kilowatt hour battery pack, two electric motors, about 600 in some horsepower,
[SPEAKER_01]: 620 horsepower, I think it was the number, and it'll have about 150 miles of electric range and about 500 miles of total range.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a little bit less than the pickup, because it's first of all, it's heavier than the pickup, and the aerodynamics are a little bit worse than the pickup truck, oddly enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: But so the arrows a little worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little heavier.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's going to have a little less electric range And it's got a smaller gas tank.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's only a 220 gallon tank in the truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it'll only go 500 miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, no one drives more than 250 miles that pulling over at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're young, if, like, in my late teens early 20s, I could drive for five, six hundred miles nonstop.
[SPEAKER_02]: If, you know, but I still had to stop for gas, but I was like, now I'm like, what am I like?
[SPEAKER_02]: With 30 minutes from the house, I'm gonna pull over.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it'll tow, they haven't said exactly what the tow rating is going to be, but it'll probably be somewhere around 8,500 and 9,000 pounds, and it should be able to go at least 200 plus miles, 200 to 250 miles.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh, pulling a trailer, um, with the, with the range extender, and then when you do need to stop, you don't, you don't necessarily have to stop and charge it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can just plug it in.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can just fill it with, fill it with gas, and then keep going, and you're fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, the, the pull through charging stations are still, not a pretty, pretty, there's not a lot, there's, there's very few of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: like a pull through so you can like pull your car up next to it like like a gas station.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not most of them are still like, hey, here's a parking spot, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: On a charging stations are doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the ion of charging stations, EAs starting to put some in.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of the GM EV GO stations at pilot travel centers are all pull through like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they're up to, but over 300 of those now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, you know, there's more and more of the pull through charging stations available, but still, you know, if you, if you don't need a meal, you know, if you just need, you know, to get some fuel and, you know, make a quick bathroom break, you know, then you don't have to sit around for half an hour, 40 minutes charging to battery.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you, if you are ready to stop for a meal, then you can also plug it in and charge it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, save a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, with 150 miles of electric range, you know, if you plug it in at home, you will almost never use any gas in this thing, which is driving around.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, they're following a similar strategy to what they're doing with the RAM pick-ups this year, which is staggering the introduction of new power trains, because one of the things he did acknowledge was, yes, Chiefs had a lot, and it still had us as had a lot of quality problems in recent years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they want to limit the variations that they're building initially, you know, to make sure that they're getting everything right, you know, and then add in a new variation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why they're starting off with hurricane.
[SPEAKER_01]: then they're going to add the the e-reve and then after the e-reve they'll add the the high output hurricane the 540 horsepower hurricane so that will probably come most likely it'll be just for the 27 model year so or late in 26 they'll add the the high output hurricane six longer but
[SPEAKER_01]: Other not that the rest of the interior, the only real changes to the only changes to the interior.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got some new colored materials, including this ruby red interior, which looks really good, and a larger heads-up display.
[SPEAKER_01]: So nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the larger HUD projects the image out a little bit farther beyond the end of the hood.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's less refocusing of your eyes required.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's still not, it's not an augmented reality HUD, like what Cadillac starting to use now, but it is further out beyond the edge of the hood.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looks like it's about two or three, maybe four feet out beyond the end of the hood.
[SPEAKER_02]: cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the augmented reality stuff is really cool, especially when you're driving in somewhere you don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when you train navigation, it's great for roundabouts in Europe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's not, you know, it's not necessary.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, a nice heads-up display means your eyes are on the road, you're keeping the track, what's going on in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so that is the the 2026 Jeep Grand Wagon here, and let's see what else.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, the 2027 Chevrolet Bolt.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: GM, you know, it's been teasing stuff about the new bolt for a while now.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've released a few teaser images over the last couple of months.
[SPEAKER_01]: In back in 2023, when they first announced that they were going to end production of the bolt, they said it was going to come back by the end of 2025.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at some point along the way, they also said we're going to use lithium iron phosphate battery in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this week they released most of the details, they showed us, you know, this, so for 2027, basically there's just one version of the bolt now, and before they had the smaller original bolt hatchback, and then, you know, the EV, and then the EV, which was six inches long.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now they're doing just the bigger version, no more of the EV, you know, they call it across over, but I mean, it's, it's really just a, you know, slightly tall hatchback, but that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a, it's a good size.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it doesn't look dramatically different from the old one from the 2023 model.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've tweaked the front end a little bit, tweaked the tail lights a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: The interior is all new, the dashboards all new.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the big thing is the old bolt was using electric propulsion components that were designed specifically for that and weren't really used in any, never ended up getting used in anything else.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they didn't have much scale, and it ended up costing them more to build that, and so what they're doing for the updated bolt is they've replaced all that stuff with stuff from what's known internally as their bad three architecture, so it's basically the same parts that are in that you'll find in a Chevy Equinox EV.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the same front motor that's 210 horsepower that you get in the base equinox EV, the battery is obviously different because it's an LFP battery, but it's the same 65 kilowatt-hour capacity as the NMC battery that was in the old bolt.
[SPEAKER_01]: the everything's a little more efficient so the range has gone up a little bit from 247 miles on the old bolt EV to 255 miles and at launch they're going to have a limited run launch edition which is basically the the upper grade of the LT trim for 29 990 including delivery
[SPEAKER_01]: And then later in the model year, they're going to add the 1LT trim for $1,000 less, so $28,990.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's also going to be an RS trim.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the loaded RS version is going to be, see, 35, 685.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that gets you the tech package, which includes super cruise and a sunroof, and that's a few thousand dollars less, it's a couple thousand dollars less than the Nissan Leaf.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little bit less range than the Leaf, but it's also a couple of grandlusts than the Leaf, and you get stuff like super cruise.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the new interior, you know, they've switched from the sound of console shifter to the column shift, like they're doing it all their other EVs, you've got the 11 inch display.
[SPEAKER_01]: The same display that you find in the equinox and some of the other models, but it's mounted a little bit differently in the bolt.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you've got more storage space.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things they talked about was the seats.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have been upgraded significantly.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was always one of the big complaints about the bolt before.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a lot of people didn't like the seats.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they've upgraded the seats.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lots of USB-C ports, wireless charging ports for your phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: No CarPlay or Android Auto.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: but what do you what do you think I like the I like the bolt I thought I mean it was the best selling EV that didn't have a Tesla badge on it until it went away.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the GM and that is after like all the issues with the LG fires of the you know the the battery issues with the with the bolt were because of LG's manufacturing it wasn't Chevy's fault it wasn't GM's fault.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but even after all that, after it's huge recall after all the news about it, it's still sold a lot of gold because it was affordable.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 250 miles of range, you know, for 26, 27,000 dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: 50 kilo watt DC fast charging wasn't great, but at the time it's good, you know, it's a great around town mid, you know, mid, you know, I'm going for a short road trip, you know, I'm going a couple hundred miles and maybe I'll stop it like a wall greenser.
[SPEAKER_02]: or Walmart in charge of my car while I'll do some shopping.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I thought it was a great vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad it's back.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's funny that when they said that they were killing this vehicle, they crowed about how awesome they're going to use that factory.
[SPEAKER_02]: The build, the Silverado, which at the time was over $100,000, and it felt very toned-deaf, and then everyone lost their minds.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, okay, okay, fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll make the bolted-deaf.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's coming back.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad that now that we, you know, we have a, you know, two vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to leave and the bolt in this sort of price range.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's essentially the same sort of vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can get in the car and decide which one you like.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're like car play, you're just going to get the leaf.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't care about car play, you can get the bolt either way.
[SPEAKER_02]: We haven't driven the bolt on for yet, but
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm very happy that we're getting more and more vehicles barely starting under its own $2,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's, you know, we're getting there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and this is under under $30 grand, you know, in the case of the bolt, you know, under $30 grand with delivery, you know, so, I mean, the leaf, you know, that $29,990 price for the leaf does not include the delivery charge.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're really looking at $31.5.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this is 30 starting price and actually it'll be 29 starting price delivered and it's got, you know, it's got a Nats port, you know, faster charging number for 150 kilowatt charging They say it'll do 10 to 80 percent charge in 26 minutes, which is pretty reasonable.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're saying during the briefing call that we had on Tuesday morning
[SPEAKER_01]: are Thursday morning that, you know, they had an event in Los Angeles on Wednesday night for owners and some influencers that owned previous bolts and for that event, they had four cars that they drove from Detroit to Los Angeles, you know, so they road tripped them just to demonstrate that, yeah, you know, this actually, you know, can be, I'm not
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, reasonably quick charging, um, and uh, you know, I think the changes that they've made are really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and uh, you know, it's got over the air update capability for everything now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, uh, should be uh, and, and also has, unlike the leaf has real one pedal driving that will bring the car to a full stop.
[SPEAKER_02]: A done, done, you do get more range with the leaf.
[SPEAKER_02]: See, that's the thing, but now we have there's competition.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can go in and you can say, okay, I want to spend under 30,000 or under 33,000 after everything or 34 after taxes and license and whatnot.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I want to relatively inexpensive EV and now you have these two options and the potential for more options that are coming at Slade and Ford.
[SPEAKER_02]: with pickups.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, no, I think this is, I mean, to me, this is the right direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, these, you know, these, these very, the i7 is an amazing electric BMW.
[SPEAKER_02]: The, the, the Lucid Air is an absolute engineering marvel, but those are also so very expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: most people are never going to own one of those.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the R1T and the R1S, they're very, very nice trucks, but they're also very expensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, sort of looking at the Maverick model of having like inexpensive vehicles that, you know, a person can buy and, you know, that's the huge, that's the key to adoption because,
[SPEAKER_02]: for all the ones they had bought, and then they, you know, they go into the second market, you know, they're the second hand third hand market, um, as used vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's when you're going to see, you know, oh, I can get a Chevy Bolton electric vehicle for $18,000, because it was $30,000 new.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now I have a little electric vehicle that I can
[SPEAKER_02]: Cruise around town in, I can plug it in at, like, you know, if you have super charger network near you, you know, that's when the bet, you know, one of the things about super charger network is it works and be there's a thousand chargers of each station.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you can use those chargers with a bolt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you won't be really annoying the Tesla owners because your bolt is only charging at 50 kilowatts like before.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, that's we, we, we, so I've driven our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I've waited once during all those trips like five minutes to get to a charging station.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, it's, you know, even though it's interstate five, it's not as bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's gotten so much better, like waiting to charge your car until we decided to drive back like on Christmas day.
[SPEAKER_02]: We waited like an hour and a half and we're, and there was all these Chevy bolts in the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I started playing the game, I'm like, oh, that car is gonna be done for that car, my life's like, what are you talking?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, well, that car didn't spree.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I, and then I leaned over to where I'm like, you know, there's like a Tesla station that's has like 40 chargers, like, up to where she's like, why don't we go there?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, okay, and it makes plain to you, NAS and CCS, and what's happened with it, the rollout, and let me explain to you, Electrohymerica and how they decided this conversation wasn't before she stuck her your butts in.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, she just got really angry about the whole situation, she's like, I don't understand why they don't just don't have bigger stations like them and like, well, see the government forced this company to just like what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I remember like my local EA station.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got six chargers and when they first put it in, there was 250 kilowatt chargers and the others were 150s.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were very unreliable and one time, since then, since this incident, they actually just a couple of weeks after this incident, they ripped out all those chargers and put in new 350s across the board.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that I had a Genesis GV60, which of course can charge at like 230s some kilowatts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I went over to to try it out on the EA station and of course at that time, one of the two 350 kilowatt chargers was out of order and the other one was being used by Bolt.
[SPEAKER_02]: I great a whole video about this for SAE, about understanding what your charger ate was for your car.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because for a little while like automakers didn't want to tell you, they were like, well, you know, they were kind of like,
[SPEAKER_02]: like based on where they're going to charge because if you're charging 50 kilowatts like a bolt use the one 50 and of course you know at since that video and I talked about in the video like you know more and more 350 only like the whole location is just 350's but yeah like kind of I think there's there's a you know a lot of people buy these cars and then they get to the station and they don't they're like oh this one's 350 oh I'm going to park charge of this one
[SPEAKER_02]: Because, you know, when you're brain, yeah, that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to hurry.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got things to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: It says you don't realize, you know, most people don't realize that, you know, it's the lesser of, you know, either the car or the charger that limits your charging speed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, good times.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, happy, happy to the bolts coming back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Woohoo bolt.
[SPEAKER_02]: I liked it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I liked it back in the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: I liked the bolt UV.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully, they haven't messed it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it literally just likes the system car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't think they have, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they just like, well, I'd worry about Chatsi.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I just leave it the same.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: People are fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: With an LFP battery, you know, fires aren't going to be a problem anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The secret LFP will partner forever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and even with the original, I'm here talking to the battery guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, we were like, we were like, well, how long are these going to last?
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, during their tests, they thought, like, okay, 80,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like 250,000 miles, I don't know, wow, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's better than we thought.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the other crazy thing about batteries is that they're in the vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're lasting longer than people anticipated.
[SPEAKER_02]: then the automakers anticipated so it's you know it's it's good all the way around it'll be nice and we can you know I'm still fingers crossed for the slate you should always you should also always be a wary of a of a you know automata start up because building cars is hard but you know but get a $25,000 tiny truck boom
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so remember last week when we talked about Ford and GM and their clever scheme to be able to keep offering customers at least EVs, the $7,500 tax credit after October 1st.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, not so much, so both companies did actually reach out to the IRS before they did that to confirm that you know, if we do this, you know, if we have our finance arms by these vehicles from the dealers and make the down payment on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, can we, you know, can we claim the $7500 tax credit and then pass it on to, you know, in terms of our release payments, the monthly payments to customers when the dealers lease those out, you know, even after October 1st.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it said, yeah, I said, yep, that's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: But unfortunately there were a couple of Republican congressmen who centers or senators,
[SPEAKER_01]: who flagged the plan calling it a loophole and the total violation of congressional intent by these nefarious actors.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, these, these nefarious automakers who are trying to just give their customers a good deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, I want, uh, these two, um, senderters to, to, do you go after every loop hole?
[SPEAKER_02]: The fact that like Amazon pays like, you know, you always hear the, you know, the things online about, you know, this billionaire paid $150 in taxes here or this company only paid like $700 in taxes this year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and less those people, and less they're going after those folks as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want them to shut their mouth.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just such a mouth, because now you're just, you're, this is, this is, this is, you're like, I'm going after EVs because they've been politicized for weird reasons, it's the, yeah, you're, you're, and also, you know, would be funny as there was pushback and said, you know, these, these folks are, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: these are American jobs that you're taking away because Americans build these cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: Americans work on these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're taking food out of American American workers mouths.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good job, buddy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So both GM and Ford decided, okay, we're not going to claim the tax credit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're not going to get the money back from the federal government.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they have decided that they will go ahead and offer customers the same price, the same monthly payment as, you know, if they had, if they had the tax credit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So customers won't be paying more.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll get the same price.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to come out of Ford and GM's pockets instead of, from the IRS.
[SPEAKER_01]: are they still going to do this to like the end of the year?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that was sort of there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think for Ford, it's through the end of December, and I'm not sure how long GM's going to keep doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, I've been working on some stuff this week and you know, looking at some of the pricing, there's actually been a lot of, there's actually a lot of really good deals up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So even if you didn't get an EV before October 1st,
[SPEAKER_01]: They, you know, we talked last week, I think, about Hyundai cutting the price of the ionic five, the Mollier 2026 ionic five by an average of $9100.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kia is offering $9,000 discounts.
[SPEAKER_01]: They haven't cut the MSRP, but they're offering $9,000 cash incentives to customers for the EV6.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ford has cut the price of the Mollier 26 lightning by $4,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a bunch of, a bunch of things out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, you know, I finally got all the final sales numbers for Q3.
[SPEAKER_01]: And turns out that to no one's surprised, that
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a record record quarter for EV sales in the U.S.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, everybody scrambled to try and try and get their tax credits before it was too late.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for the third quarter of the year, well, yeah, for the third quarter, EVs represented 10 point and just over 10 percent of all
[SPEAKER_01]: Vehicle sales like duty vehicle sales in the U.S.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and for September was almost 11.9%.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're eating.
[SPEAKER_02]: I went with this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I went with the Bay Area percentages because it's like 20 to 25% like normally.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like what?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like each I when I drive around the Bay Area and I just excuse me
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll just start to clock all the EVs that are around me when I'm at it at the stoplight.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a pretty good percentage, so I'm curious what the Bay Area percentage is because we're silly for EVs up here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and overall compared to Q3 of 2024, EV sales that the total volume was up by almost 25%. 24.7%.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, last week, you know, Tesla announced their Q3 sales and, you know, they made a big deal, but, you know, being a record quarter, their best quarter sales ever, you know, they were up 8% compared to 2024.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was their first up quarter in over a year.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: Even with that, it was still not enough to save their U.S.
[SPEAKER_01]: share of the EV market.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in Q3, Tesla, for September, Tesla had just over 40% of all EV sales in the U.S.
[SPEAKER_01]: compared to 52% and September of 2024.
[SPEAKER_01]: For the quarter, for the third quarter, they were only 36.5% of the EV market versus 49% last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Tesla's share of EV sales had been declining steadily, and GM was up to 17% of EV sales for first September.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, a big group was eleven and a half percent.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, I mean, that's really impressive for Hyundai because they still, Hyundai was, I still talked to people who were like, I don't know about Hyundai, I'm like, man.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was the 90s, that was like 30 years ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, GM has a lot of good EVs on the market.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hyundai, Motor Group has a lot of good EVs on the market.
[SPEAKER_02]: You make good cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then people will buy them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Tesla knew this was coming.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's that it should be expected, losing market share.
[SPEAKER_02]: But still selling about a bunch of cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: But they couldn't be 100% 80% 90% of the market forever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because everyone's going to be making EVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're making good EVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would like to think that at some point, Tesla's going to be a little bit more aggressive and try
[SPEAKER_02]: dash clusters, and like in tears that aren't just, you know, the modern version of just a blank room, it's just, you know, this is like really sort of like looking at like, okay, how can we compete with these other automakers that are coming out?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right now, test to still clean X of EVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be the clean XVVs for a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of the default.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Less and less so.
[SPEAKER_02]: Less and less, especially with Nax, adoption from all the other automakers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's going to be an interesting few years.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I really wish Tesla was run by an adult.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's not my, I don't make that decision.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I only know there's just the board of directors of Tesla.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't, they, well, that's why I was in your family and your friends on the board.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, one last news item for the week, um, GM has canceled its ex-generation fuel cell program.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, GM was the first company to ever build a fuel cell vehicle back in the 1960s.
[SPEAKER_01]: That band's awesome, by the way, the Electrovan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, they, you know, this was a corvare van back in 1967 that, you know, GM had been developing the fuel cell hydrogen fuel cell system for the Apollo program.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they said, you know what, what if we stick this in a vehicle, see what happens?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something, they stuck it into a corvare van, and it worked.
[SPEAKER_01]: They only drove it a few times, um, and then parked it in a museum.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it worked, and then GM has continued to work on fuel cell technology ever since, you know, one of the first programs I ever did was I participated in a drive of the GM SQL fuel cell concepts from Rochester to New York City, drove 300 miles on a single tank of hydrogen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, you know, it was pretty, pretty amazing, you know, and they've done a lot of work on fuel cells over the years, but it's gotten to the point where they've finally come to the realization in 2025 that there's just not going to be a market for fuel cells any time in the foreseeable future and any kind of significant volume.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're, you know, I understand, you know, you want to be able to have that two-prong approach.
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to be able to be ready, but at the same time, it's, you know, we, it feels cells are going to work, are great for long haul trucking, which means you're going to, you know, that's a, that's a much easier infrastructure to build out because you have these main, you know, highway arteries across the country where you can like, okay, here's a pilot station or a flying J, boom, we're going to put a fuel cell station, you know, charging, you know, our refilling station there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it's a lot tougher than an EV and I talked to Tota, but I asked Tota, I'm like, why would I buy a fuel cell vehicle when I could buy an EV and charge it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Literally anywhere if I had time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if I, if there's a plug, you can, you can, you can refuel your vehicle.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to be quick.
[SPEAKER_02]: but you can do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Where it feels like if you just don't have, if you can't get to a station, then you just, that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's all there is to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think, Toyota just some interesting thing like the Porto San Pedro with fuel cell vehicles because they have a fuel station.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it,
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I think it works really well for large vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think at some point once that's established, then passenger vehicles will start making more sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: But for now, you're throwing a lot of money at something where you could just sit back that everyone else work on it, and that when it becomes a reality, you start seeing that this is happening, you can start investing in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And whether you're
[SPEAKER_02]: using your previous technology, or you can just see what other people are doing, and either license it, or if it's open, or if it's a standard, you can just use that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot of money to work on these vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the fuel cell thing is always been the chicken and egg.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can't sell cars unless there's an infrastructure.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can't build an infrastructure unless there's cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's too difficult to build out that infrastructure
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all right, so yeah, so that means they canceled a plant that they were planning to build near Detroit to build fuel cells their next generation fuel cells and they've laid off a bunch of people from their development team.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it's a bummer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's too bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope that they those folks are able to get jobs with again, these big truck and companies.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's still stuff out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: The work is still being done.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just passenger vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a really tough sell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean Bosch is still doing work on fuel cells Toyota Honda and Hyundai are all doing work on fuel cells and BMW's partnering with Toyota using Toyota's technology.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got a fleet of X-Fives in Germany now with fuel cells and they're planning to build a fuel cell version of the next gen X-Five, at least for the European market.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's answer a couple of listener questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: First from Bob H, hoping you can offer some insight on my BMW I3 issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: First, I love the car, at least three, and finally, bought one in 2020, when no one was buying used cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got a great deal, lately, however, I ran into a strange issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: I started getting an error, driver restraint system failure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I reached out to my dealer who's serviced at since purchase and the reps suggested that I get a code reader and try canceling the message.
[SPEAKER_01]: This didn't work.
[SPEAKER_01]: At the same time, the seat belt on buckle chime started not stopping with the seat belt fastened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, this is a serious safety issue, not knowing if the airbag would deploy in an accident and driving with the chime on is not doable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I took the car in the dealer and $305 later, I was told that the buckle had failed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another almost $900 later I had in a new buckle.
[SPEAKER_01]: My issue is that if BMW is going to engineer safety features into the belt buckle, it should never fail, like every other car I've ever owned.
[SPEAKER_01]: The only failure I've experienced involved the retention mechanism, the spring having worn out.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about this?
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems to me that this should result in a recall, but not sure how I would pursue it.
[SPEAKER_01]: With or without a recall, paying this kind of money for something that should never fail is unreasonable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I look forward to your response.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I mean something like this typically would be the subject of a recall.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even if it's just a single vehicle failure,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's at the very least, you know, they should be replacing this free of charge for something like this for a safety system like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I would suggest doing is go look for do a Google search for office of defects investigation from Nitsa.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can file a complaint there and put in all your information about what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this applies to anything any kind of vehicle defect that you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can file a complaint there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And folks, let's take a look at these.
[SPEAKER_01]: And especially for safety related stuff, they prioritize those.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if they come to a determination that, yeah, this is a design flaw, then, you know, then it will, you know, they can go to the automaker and say, hey, we want you to do a recall on this and replace these parts and it's free of charge.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it may be that this was, you know, just a one-off defective, you know, may not be a defective design.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't heard of any particular, anything like this more broadly.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and my guess is that the mechanism that they used in the I3 is the same one that they used in millions of other BMWs.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if this were, you know, a design flaw, you know, a fundamental design flaw, we'd probably be hearing a lot more about this, so it's probably a one-off failure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's still worth going to ODI and filing that, and I'll put a link to that in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a, you know, it's, it's a use.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it sounds like it's a sensor failure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll clearly not a spring or mechanism failure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had the spring pop out of like my BRZ.
[SPEAKER_02]: One day, one morning, I was getting ready to go to it on a trip.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like five a.m.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I pushed it in the spring, just literally popped out of the buckle.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was able to like, I had to sort of like kind of work it to get it in.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I drove and then I like the whole way there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I hope I can get this off when I get to the airport.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was able to get on and off and on and off again when I got back from the airport.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just went to the Subaru and just ordered a new buckle, make it mechanism.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, the sensor thing is, I mean, who knows what the person who had it before.
[SPEAKER_02]: My opponent actually dropped a coke in there once or who knows what kind of weird thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, you should definitely, that's a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's yeah, because I think the mechanism for my car that the whole buckle with the thing in the little plug, so it wouldn't yell at me, it was like 60 bucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is a BMW, so everything's going to be more expensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a, a 13, wait, we got $300, $1200.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: To get a new buckle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's, that's a bit much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll put a link to the office of defects investigation file a complaint there, you know, file as much information as you can and they will take a look at it and it could lead to a recall if it's not a common problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, and finally from Andy from Melbourne, this is one that actually came in a couple of weeks ago and came in during a week when you were out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you go to the week that you weren't feeling well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in the fridge and my wife's got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she had bought like these.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ice cream sandwiches.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't eat I don't tip if my wife's on a rant I don't really eat a lot of sweets And I was like, well, I should eat one of these ice cream sandwiches for they go bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: It gave me a stomach ache I don't know how I think it's been in her like six months Time just like well, I have to eat this thing with I have to eat this thing before it goes bad That's my problem because sometimes the thing is bad
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, as long as you're, you know, your power hasn't gone out, you know, six months in the freezer ice cream sandwich.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was just gross.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was just, I don't like really like, it was like an Oreo, I don't, it was like an Oreo one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was like that fake ice cream.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was just a gross, it was like, that's probably why my wife hasn't brought the book after eating one months and months ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, anyway, the reason why I saved this one for you, because Andy asked,
[SPEAKER_01]: Any comment on the TELLO Urban Electric Truck?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you've checked out the TELLO, haven't you?
[SPEAKER_02]: I have not checked out the TELLO, but I think it's...
[SPEAKER_02]: I would like there to be, again, I think competition is good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think inexpensive vehicles are taken to a better inexpensive vehicles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Means they're usually smaller, usually lighter.
[SPEAKER_02]: They mean they're using smaller batteries.
[SPEAKER_02]: That means they're using fewer resources, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, all the things.
[SPEAKER_02]: That said, I'm making a big deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the latest news out of Tello from what is September was that they got $20 million.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, that's like, that's like your budget for Chassie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how much bills you want or two prototypes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's, you know, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's not enough to build a truck to build a vehicle unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you said you could build some prototypes with it, uh, you could, you could do Chassie, you could get your Chassie set up maybe maybe that's the budget for getting your Chassie when you go to production.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see I think of the two I think Slate is much isn't a far better position to be something We see a lot again the world, you know, especially the Bay Area is littered with the corpses of EV startups Like a lot of people like how we're gonna make this we're gonna make this we're gonna some of them get bots some of them pivot Like and but most of them just sort of like fade away and you know, it's the you know
[SPEAKER_02]: good intentions of like I'm going to make this car because and I think there was also a big rush when people saw the stock value of Tesla where it wasn't really like I know how to build a car is like oh we could have a really wish you could cash in on this next trend.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We should cash in on this next-end because shareholder value.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, that's, you know, I think the teller looks cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: That said, I don't know if they have enough, they have enough capital to really do the thing they want to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's a really interesting idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for those who haven't seen the TELLO, this thing has about the same footprint as a mini-contrimine.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a small vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a four-door pickup truck with a five-foot bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got a mid-gate so you can slide a four-by-sheet apply wood into it with the tailgate up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unlike a traditional pickup truck, including the slate,
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything ahead of the front wheels.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything ahead of the windshield.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing there.
[SPEAKER_01]: In a lot of ways, this is more like the canoe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like a French bulldog of a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this is the tiny little thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They claim 350 miles of range.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got 500 horsepower, 0 to 60 in four seconds.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's kind of a bonkers vehicle in a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I really like to design.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how, how, you know, safety, with having like, you know, three inches of not, not a lot of the space.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's, so you, you have to think about like, you know, ramming it into other cars and into other things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think one of the things late is like, really, they're like, we want the best safety rating blah, blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're, they're very,
[SPEAKER_02]: I think because people really, when they think small cars, they think they're unsafe, which is, I mean, I guess if we're driving around with tanks everywhere, which is what we have now.
[SPEAKER_02]: But, um, no, I think it's cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, a tiny little truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm at four doors.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's something that slates not doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't mind that the slate doesn't have four doors, but I think other people do.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's a, but again, at the end of the day, you're just like, okay, so do you have enough money to build this car, and that's where it comes down to.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all about, it's all about the Benjamin's.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I don't know how much this, oh, here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: The base single motor 41,520 bucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, not nearly as inexpensive as what slate is aiming for.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, it comes down to like you just don't have the money to make it inexpensive car.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the weird thing about building inexpensive cars.
[SPEAKER_02]: The margins are lower.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you just, it's, yeah, she's got the source all the stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know who's on the tello, you know, who they are.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if they're, they're former car people, like working in the industry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Slate has a ton of automotive people who've been working in
[SPEAKER_02]: yeah if they can make it happen cool they can sell cars awesome um but if i looking at this and i'm looking at the slate and the slate's like $15,000 less that's uh yeah again i don't have friends i don't need to do doors in the back
[SPEAKER_01]: I just need to place for your dogs.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just need to place for my dogs, and if you can take the rear window out, the whole rear back of the thing, and just put a what do you call it, roll cage on the back, and I just put carpet down, and then the dog's seeing us hang out in the back of the car, like cool summer beach dogs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, they'd love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's an interesting concept.
[SPEAKER_01]: It even has an infotainment system, which, for 40 grand, I would hope so.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we'll see if it ever makes it to production.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am hopeful, but not optimistic.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I think I'm a little bit I'm far more optimistic about slight than I am about tello that's I mean that again, I I want them to succeed, but we you know, I'm not 100% sure site's going to make it either so yeah anyone from tello's listening to say that I think this is not a dig at tello for what they're doing this is a dig at this is the the realities of building cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think, you know, I think Slate will make it to production, whether or not they're commercially successful as an entirely different matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's going to be a lot tougher to sell that vehicle than a lot of people think.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm the flip side of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I speak to more normies, regular just people, who know about the slate and are weirdly excited about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like my level of excitement, who are just like, yeah, they just like, oh, go, like you do all this stuff to it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a toss-up to me, because they have over 100,000, I mean, 50 bucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's nothing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that doesn't mean people are going to 100,000 people are going to buy this truck.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think, you know, there is excitement about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But is it the excitement with the Bronco where people actually go out and buy it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or is it excitement of the ID buzz where people just don't buy it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is, you know, that was sort of Volkswagen's fault for dragging that out and the price being too high.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but yeah, so it's like, what, what are we doing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it, is it Titanic excitement or snakes on a plane excitement?
[SPEAKER_02]: No one went and saw snakes on the plane after everyone got super hyped about it online.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they got more excited about Sam Jackson than about the actual movie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, they just wanted to say I get these snakes off my plane, which is ours.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a cross for Tello.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope you guys make it, you know, Tesla claimed, you know, they had two million reservations for the cyber truck and so far they've sold about 55,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's, but I mean, the model three sold really well.
[SPEAKER_02]: They had a ton of iterations for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the cyber truck was like, oh, and then a lot of people kind of like realize who Elon Musk was, there was a far more, you know, the the delays were far more catastrophic than the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, three, and then the price was like, oh, dear Lord.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, um, I think that's it for this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks everybody for listening and we'll be back next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.